All:

Ok - not trying to stir the pot with some needless hyperbole , however.....

Realizing that most mechanical devices either fail early (due to defects, etc) or fail late due to wear or fatigue, at what point would you typically consider a riflescope to be out of the first "honeymoon" phase.

Naturally, there are a huge number or variables (no pun intended) here, but lets say your typical good quality 3-9x40 on a medium-ish kicker, lets say a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag.

My inclination is to say that it would be around 100-150 rounds.

What do you all think?

TIA,

BB

Seems to me, scope construction varies so widely that you need to narrow the question. 150 rounds might be half the useful life of a Barska. It might serve to weed out the "early curve" failures with, say, Leupolds. Doubt it leaves an impression on a Nightforce or other equally stout scopes.

Jeff - Okay fair enough. How about as a baseline we say something like a VX-2 or VX-3i.

I am thinking a good solid $250-$400 scope of whatever flavor.

Your point about the Barska is well taken.

Bob

This forum needs a poll feature...

117...

I was going to say 64 because 64 is 8 squared...

Ok, I take 64 then.

100....though any scopes I ever had crap out did it on the first 20...

87.3695 is the industry accepted standard as of 6/27/16.........

Is this set and forget? 20 - 50 rounds.

Heavy Recoil levels will show up these failures much more quickly.
A 300 mag with 180s or 200s is about the start of that punishment.

Or, is it more of a turret twirling, return to zero repeatably scenario ?

This is like the statistical merits of measuring accuracy with 3, 4 or 5 shot groups.

They are all reliable right up until they fail. That is why I make it a practice to have alternatives. For example, a scope in hand-detachable mounts, with irons which are zeroed, so I can take it off if it has a problem, and keep hunting; a spare scope or rifle in camp (or on hand, if competing), so I can change over.

Swaro variable...about 80 rounds.

Zeiss variable....about the same.

Leupold variable(s).....lets say 50-500. Sort of a WAG because there have been a few.

One M8 4X Leupold.......about 4000 rounds through 300,338 and 35 caliber magnums.

Could you please be more precise Mr. Spock?

Long "Honeymoon" for the Swaro and Zeiss at 80 rounds.

with the Leupold 50 is definitely "Honeymoon", but 500 is something more.
Given that you have experience with several Leupolds, presumably of various models, it is probably just the nature of these sorts of failures. Good that they offer such a fine warranty.

Interesting thread, most manufacturers probably wouldn't want to share their CS warranty statistics unless they reflect positively on their brand.

338: The Zeiss showed shifts in POI between power changes,observed on the range.It got delivered to Zeiss who confirmed the problem.

The Swaro was part of an Alberta snafu on a hunt. It behaved in strange ways but also shifted POI between power changes and other stuff....weird.


There have been a few Leopold variables,IIRC 2 2,5-8's, two 1.5-5X, and one 1.75-6. Round count varied. IIRC a 375 H&H ate three of them.

My third S&B, a 4x Classic, refused to go on the honeymoon. Barely got it outside the church door--15 rounds! 😜 😜

628

365. You have to shoot 1 shot per day. After a full year, if it's still holding zero and tracking well, It's proven...

Depending on the recoil abuse of the weapon and whether you spin the turrets or not.

No real experience to draw on with Euro Alpha glass, but the Zeiss almost sounds like too much torque on the rings.

The Swaro sounds like baggage apes - sorry your hunt was snafu'd. Especially since it was in my native Alberta. The weather etc. in November makes it tough enough, without having to resort to belt & suspenders pre-sighted spare scopes in qd mounts.

All these stresses on a scope can be cumulative and subtle .
Recoil is obvious because the shooter experiences it too, but mounting issues like ring torque and alignment have their own quirks to contend with.

Trust but Verify !

No not too much stress the rings with the Zeiss. I spoke with Bruce Cavey who was President of Zeiss NA at the time. He had me ship the scope.

His tech guy called and said they had tested the scope here in the states and I was right....it shifted POI between power settings. They returned it to Zeiss over in Europe for analysis and sent me a new scope.

The Zeiss is not the first variable power scope I've seen that shifted POI between power settings....it's more common than you'd think but better today than before.

The Swaro....I think it was defective from the start. I am not the only one to have problems with that particular model.

Leupold variables are.....Leupold variables. I have gotten to the point I that I can't make myself spend the money on them any more. I'd rather buy a fixed 6X than a VX."whatever".

What we are discussing is infant mortality failures.

IIRC I saw somewhere that Euro alphas were supposed to be good for 1500 rounds from something like a 375.

I have always felt good about my high end scopes once they got past 100 rounds, and that's smaller stuff than a 375. Same with the Leupies. Cheap scopes I expect to fail earlier all the way around. If they get past 50 rounds I figure they have a good chance to make a coupe hundred, but I don't expect much more than that. The higher end Nikon/etc I have no real good feel for life expectancy, some like the Monarch Gold seem to be built like S&Bs, heavy as a tank, which makes me think internally they might be more robust.

Half of the scopes that make it past infant mortality will go a long way past and half of them will likely never fail the original owner.

A number of "Euro alphas" have broken on my rifles in far less than 1500 rounds.

The first was 3-9x that I'd mounted on a .30-06, where it did fine for a very limited number of shots, but then I mounted it on a .375 H&H and it died almost immediately. It's replacement went on the .375 immediately and did fine for 40 rounds. But I never did trust it and eventually sold the scope.

A decade later I received a new and improved model of the same scope. It lasted 158 rounds, the hardest-kicking rifle a 7-1/2 pound .270 Weatherby.

At the other extreme I purchased a package-deal Ruger 77 .30-06 with a cheap Bushnell Sportview 4x on it at a local store. The scope worked fine, and in fact had very good adjustments. Eventually I used it as a test scope, and it worked fine on a .375 H&H for a while. Maybe 15 years ago I gave it to a cousin for use on a .30-06 he'd just purchased. It's still working fine.

Damned if I know how many rounds ANY scope will last, except maybe M8 4x Leupolds. They seem pretty indestructible.

Guys- interesting discussion, thanks!

It would seem that there is something of a consensus around 100ish rounds.

It seems like some may have misinterprete the intent of my question.

Not so much of a question as to the ultimate durability really, but more around what does it take to sort out the initial bugs or defects. Really more of a question about a specific example not being 100% "right".

Myself, I have had a few scopes fail to hold zero after maybe 20-30 rounds over a 12 ga rifled shotgun. There was a sightron and a weaver Classic in that bunch.

Oddly, like John, I have this $40 Tasco from the early 90s that has held rock solid zero after more than 200 12 ga slugs. The glass is horrid but the damn thing stays zeroed.

My most recent is a zeiss conquest. Held zero well for about maybe 80 rounds on a standard weight 7 mag then almost instantly failed when I put it on my 12 ga A-bolt slug gun. Lost windage control and was spraying slugs around a 10 inch horizontal line.
Bob

I have had quite good experiences over my forty-some years of peering through scopes with the above mentioned Shifted & Bended Krashik exception. And that was on a fairly heavy Kilimanjaro 350 Rem mag, so about 30/06 level recoil and only 15 rounds was all it took. But I understand that stuff happens. My real disappointment there was with their CS. It was a new scope and the only two options given me were to sent it back to Deutchland for three months or to spend even more on an upgrade. And they didn't even smile. No offer of even a used replacement at the time.

I've had several more S&B, all the other Euro's alphas, a trunk load of of Leup's, Some Nikons, an early Redfield, some Bushy's of yesteryear, and even a Tasco at one point. Most were on mild kickers and gave me no problems.

Conversely, I put a couple thousand rounds down the tube of a 340 with an early Swarovski 3-9 AL alternating with a Leupy 2.5-8 riding on top with no problems whatsoever with one exception, and that was with the Leup that lost zero after I fell with the rifle while side-hilling on some scree. It was a lateral foot off at a 100 yds discovered only after I missed a big bull at 350. That one hurt.

BlackBart,

Since my last post I looked over my shooting notes some more and found:

1) A 6x scope of European make went on a test-loaner .300 Winchester Magnum for 50-60 rounds, performing fine. The next rifle I put it on was a Tikka T3 Lite in .260 Remington, whereupon the rifle started throwing "fliers." I put a proven scope on the .260 (in fact a variable) and it shot very well. Apparently the .300 shook the 6x up just enough to have it go to pieces on the .260.

2) A popular European 3-9x variable, the same brand as the two broken scopes mentioned in my previous post, has been on various rifles for almost 500 rounds and is still working fine. But over 400 of those rounds were on a .17 Fireball and a .222 Remington.

Have had other variables go screwy a .240 Weatherby and a .257 Roberts within less than 100 rounds. Both scopes were very popular brands, and cost several hundred bucks. Both rifles were very light, but still....

All of which is why the vast majority of variables I own are on rifles chambered for cartridges no larger than the .243 Winchester, while the majority of my rifles that kick harder have fixed-power scopes or "tactical" style variables that hold up better than typical 1"-tubed hunting variables.

However, there is one brand of 1" variable I've almost never had problems with, but won't mention the name here because it would risk cardiac arrest in some Campfire members. Let's just say it doesn't cost anywhere near $500.

Have now had 17 different brands of scopes fail from sheer shooting. That is brands, not individual scopes.

Good thread guys. I have 1 scope in particular that has seen many thousand rounds on multiple rifles. It's been my "proven" scope for many years and it's worked without failure. I've had it since about 1998 when I bought it for a new 300 win magnum at the time. It's an American made Burris FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex reticle and one of my favorite scopes:

Being limited to the amount of pictures per post, this is the continuation of the scope I view as "proven". This one has always held zero, tracked well and has helped to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of my rifles. I believe I paid $179.00 for it on sale and would not trade it for any Zeiss or Swarovski made. This is purely based on sentimental reasons, not market value:






This is where it rests now. On top of a 1956 model 70 30-06 fwt....


This, to me, defines the term "proven" when referring to rifle scopes.

Some of the memorable hunts that scope has been on:

I have one of those burris on my 7-08...

Is it the American made Burris? I've had a few Philipine models and prefer the American made ones. The latter ones seem cheaper..

I'm going to say not USA made because I cannot find no markings where it was made at on the scope ..

1" variables under $500? Many to narrow down from, quite a full field. Wouldn't you say so too?

79S,

The Phillipine Fullfield II's are made on machinery Burris provided and trained workers to run. The lenses are the same.

When the Phillipine scopes first came out I got one and compared it both optically (on a chart at night) and mechanically to the last American scope acquired. The only difference I could find was the Phillipine scope was "smoother," in everything from turning the power ring to the threads on the adjustment caps. Still have that scope and it works fine.

Dunno how the latest ones are but may have to buy one and find out.

Would it start with a B and end with s?

My guess would be starts with S and ends with i.

I can probably guess.....and you're right...the guys would go catatonic. ( I think I have one.... )


For those mentioning the Burris FFII...Ive had both American and Phillipine made and can detect no differences. Had six of them at one time and got lots of shooting under them. Nary a bobble.

413

I know ingwe used to love Burris FFII's, as does coyotehunter. There's a lot of good scopes out there that won't break the bank. Here's a good video some of you guys might like:

MD,

Thanks for the info much appreciated

Seconds on what others say about the FFII USA. Eye relief is short, so I recently took it off of a 9.3x62 and found it a home on a CZ 527 in .223.

Jacku

Seconds on what others say about the FFII USA. Eye relief is short, so I recently took it off of a 9.3x62 and found it a home on a CZ 527 in .223.

Jack