I want to run some 158gr .358" cast bullets Lyman# 358663 in my .358 win and 35 Whelen. I have unique on hand and i have heard it works well with said bullets. I think someone said 7grs of unique would work in the 358 and i guess it should also work well in the 35 Whelen with a filler. Anyone have any experience with this weight and said cartridges?
Frank,
Go search around at
www.castboolits.gunloads.com there are a couple of cast bullet 358 shooters there.
Spot
264,
What speed are you searching for? The Lyman manual has a 150 listed at 11grs. Unique for 1,570 in the 358 Win.. I guess my perspective is 45gr. bullets in a 22 Honet and 3grs. Unique yields 1,200 f/s, so 7 grs. in those cases seems very mild. I have fired 4grs, with lead 250 gr lapping bullets and had them stick in the Whelen.
I am not familiar with that mould number. I have shot 180gr. cast bullets with full loads from a Whelen, with great accuracy.
I am hesistant to use pistol powders and small tufts of filler, fillers are safer when used with reduced rifle powder/slow pistol powders "filling" from powder to bullet base, at least thats my take.
PJ Gunner or gnoah will probably be more help!
I am looking for around 1,500fps and i did re-think that load it would seem that 10-12grs would do the trick. So you think that fillers arent necessary with the pistol bullet and powder? Thanks for the replys
I used Unique and a 250gr gas checked bullet in my .338Mag years ago.
The filler is used mainly to keep the powder charge down next to the primer for proper ignition.
We would tear off a small tuft of the Dacron fiber and use a pencil to "chamber" it atop the charge. You don't need much and the fire would consume the Dacron compleatly. Less is best.
This load worked very well and was a blast to shoot. I don't recall the velocity, but it was an absolute kick to shoot stuff with and would sure as hell kill a deer! BT
My Lyman Cast Bullet Book sez...
.358 win. Unique powder: 150gr Hard Cast Bullet.
Starting load: 11.5gr @ 1570 fps
Max load: 15gr @ 1795 fps
"Use at your own descretion."
I have a .358 win, a SAKO carbine thats been rebored. I think this would be a great fun gun and load to shoot squirrels and such with. Let me know how it goes... Thx BT
Frank,
I don't use fillers for pistol/shotgun powder loads. They do require tipping the gun upward or not firing down at an angle. They do ignite just fine horizontally (after tipping up). Granted, this is not law but it is something have tested for myself. Others may feel otherwise, but tip your gun up and down and run the loads through a chronograph if your curious, or just listen. The loads you show will work fine, you should just be aware that there may be ignition issues to pay attention to. No big deal. Test them to know for sure. I really like Unique/Blue Dot for SMALL cases 22 Horn, 222, 223, again, no filler and no ignition issues.
My opinion with putting small pieces of filler atop these charges is that it is like putting two bullets atop the powder. The powder ignites (fast powder, usually consumed totally in the case) the filler zooms foreward and slaps the bullet before it is pushed by the gas. Its like shooting a 38 inside a Whelen case, then pushing a Whelen bullet. I'm sure there are many others who use this with no problems, and I won't argue, but this, to me, is the cause of ringing chambers.
By using a slower pistol powder, fast rifle powder or the Hodgdon H4895 Maxes multiplied by .60, and filling the rest with Dacron (weighed if you want accuracy), you have a slower burn, the dacron is "part" of the bullet, and you KNOW pressures are low. Yes, H4895 will leave residue, but this is eliminated with using a filler to the base of the bullet. You just cut and try down to the velocity you are seeking, reducing powder, adding filler. Also, the Lyman manuals do not show any pistol powder loads with filler in bottleneck cartridges, and they have written a book on the practice, so who are we to argue?
You do not need to cram or smash Dacron in, but make sure it fills powder to bullet; you shouldn't hear the powder when you shake the round. This method has worked for thousands of rounds, the most capacious case being the 416 Rigby.
My favorite load for the 35 Whelen uses 35 grs. H4895, 7 grs. Dacron, a 250 gr. bullet and a Std. WLR primer. This produces around 2,000 fps, 3/4 5 shot 100 yd. accuracy, and a good familiarization load for the rifle.
If you look at CBA matches you will see most loads at 1,500 to 2,200. Most do not use anything faster than Unique in cases larger than 308. The majority use 2400, SR4756, 4198's, B-Mark, 4895's, and VV powders.
Nate
By "Tuft" of Dacron, I mean a thumb nail size peice, at most.
Pull it off and use a pencil as a tool to push it ontop of the charge.... very little material. It expands to hold the charge where it belongs. No need to "fill" the case -charge to bullet base-. Also no need to tip the rifle up to seat the charge. Just shoot it and have fun. The "tuft" is burned up compleatly upon firing. It's job is done.
No dog in this fight. Don't care.
Do as you wish and have some fun. Let us know how it goes. BT.
4759 works very well for heavier cast bullets if you decide to go there. I use them with the 206 grain GC Lyman RN bullet - fine accuracy at 1900 fps in my 358 Win.
Frank
Try using a small square of Kleenex tamped down on the powder.
It will burn up, most likely before the bullet gets very far down the barrel.
I've used this for light loads in the 45-70, 405.
Jim
To use a filler or to not use a filler? My apologies to William Shakespeare. It's a good question as is, what kind of filler should I use, if I use one?
I have not done any cast bullet shooting yet in either my .358 Win. or .35 Whelen so I'm at a loss for answers there.
However, depending on the load used in the 30-30, .308 Win. or 30-06, yes I do use fillers. For the very light plinkers with about 5 to 10 grains of Unique, a quarter square of toilet paper works nicely. I prefer to single load those rounds as recoil will dislodge the TP and mess things up.
My pet loads for the .308 and 30-06 however use stronger charges, mostly 16.0 gr. #2400, 17.0 gr. of IMR-4227 and 25.0 gr. of 4895, either variety sems to work just fine with a one grain tuft of dacron batting. The easiest way to get close to equal weights with the filler is to buy it in the form of batting which you can easily find in the fabric section at any Walmart. For most carttidges, the 1/4" thickness will work just fine. For larger rounds like the magnums and 45-70, the half inch thickness might be better.
Takne the batting and with a straight edge of some type mark a hald inch strip and cut it off. Then, cut thes trips into one half inch pieces. You'll find that when weighing them they will be quite close to one grain in weight.
What I suggest is load five rounds with the filler and five rounds without using the charge you like best. See which gives the best groups and go with that.
For the .358 Win., I think the loads I mentioned above would work quite well. The nice thing is they will ignite better than Unique should you choose to not use a filler.
FWIW, dacron (polyester) batting runs about $4.00 or less a pack and a pack will cover an awful lot of cast bullet loads.
Paul B.
In the 35 whelen, you can work up to 15 gr of unique for 1700-1800 fps with 150-180 gr cast bullets. 12 gr will get you in the 1200 fps range.
No need for fillers, unique isn't position sensitive and ignites reliably with charges 12 gr and higher. I've gone down to 7gr and 700-800 fps, but the velocities are not consistant and the loads burn dirty. That said, they are still quite accurate and make for fine small game loads inside 25 yds.
In .35 Whelen, I like 9 grains Red Dot, no filler, and cast bullets up through 200 grains.