today I made my first 45, 230 gr RN lead cast bullets.
I melted and mixed 16 pounds of lead with 1 pound of tin.
gas burner and cast iron pot.


some of the tools

afan to speed up cooling the spruce puddle and aome tin foil layed out to catch lead from cutting the spruce.

5 gal. bucket 3/4 full of water with a towel to catch bullets as they come out of the mold.

456 bullets, 6 were culls

lubed and spread out on wax paper

tomorrow I'll size them
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3e05d4d3.jpg[/img]
the bullets weigh 230.2 grains
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps49a3faaf.jpg[/img]
most of the bullets came out fine but a bunch are like this.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsb6f18d6a.jpg[/img]
What caused that ? will it shear off when sizing?
heres another picture of the same bullet.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsc0b97d82.jpg[/img]
The directions on the lube so to let the lubed bullets dry overnight. do I realy need to wait that long until I run the bullets through the sizing die?

Jamie

Judging by the wrinkles in your finished boolits, you may not have alloy and/or mold hot enough. And the flashing on the bottom of the boolit could be from a sprue plate that isn't tight enough. 16:1 ratio is more than plenty of tin - it will give it lots of "flow" properties because the tin reduces the molecular cohesion and surface tension of the alloy. Looks like a good start. You may not need to size them at all - how big are they as cast - and what size does your bore slug out at?

the bullets measure .451". I haven't slugged the bore so I don't have that measurement.

A few things:
1) You did not show a picture of you quickly dropping one of the pretty bullets that you picked up immediately after casting it. This will cause suspicion on the part of "experienced" casters.
2) The caption below the second picture - why are you chopping down a conifer?
3) On a serious note - when you size the bullets tomorrow, be prepared for the growing column of bullets leaving the sizer to lift the top off of the reservoir.

Welcome to the club and enjoy a great hobby.

2? When typing I really need to proof read before I hit the submit button

Loose sprue plate was my first thought.

The screw is tight. Should I try to bend it a little?

Are the blocks closing correctly/completely? Did you lube the locating pins, ribs, and sprue plate screw? Those things can cause the fins on the base as well.

The blocks are closing all the way. I didn't lube anything. I degreased and smoked the mold but I didn't lube anything.

Don't forget, he's using a Lee mold. Sometimes everything can be "right" with one of them and stuff like occasional unexplained fins happen. As stated, check all the fittings and lube them if necessary. Sometimes you get a good Lee mold, and sometimes you don't...

Are those wrinkles common on your bullets? If so, crank the heat up.

Are you dropping them into water to speed the cooling time or are you hoping to harden them? With a simple tin-lead alloy hardening of that nature won't occur. You need to have antimony present also, and a trace of arsenic doesn't hurt either I'm told. Wheel weights have antimony in their alloy and that's why WW bullets respond to hardening techniques. If it's just a means of catching hot bullets, well, that's a discussion we've had here before.

If hardening is your goal, you may wish to re-think that as discussed on this forum before also. A properly sized bullet (what's a "boolit"?) softer in nature will likely lead less than a hard one. I know it sounds counter-intuitive and I refused to believe it too way back when, but after scrubbing lead out of my .45 for the umpteenth time I finally wised up.

Looks like you're off and running! I wish I had a crowd of old experienced casters looking over my shoulder when I was starting out. I wouldn't have had to learn so much basic stuff the hard way.

Look good to me, you'll get an ocassional one that fins if the sprue is not on right.

Yes let them dry over night.

then size, then you may want to put a THIN second coat on them before you load.

make sure you bell the mouth of the case enough.

I've not seen finning that bad, Lee mold or other. Possibly the lead is still molten at the base when you cut the sprue.

An unrelated issue... I size to .452, so if your bullets are dropping at .451 either your mold is small in diameter, or the extra tin is causing shrinking.

Either way, that's a lot of tin. If you have some handy, I would add wheelweights to that alloy in a 50/50 mix and see what that change does.

If I start out with wheel weights, I can add about 15% lead and 2% tin, (or just the tin), water dropped for anything up to about 1600fps.

For 45acp, straight wheel weights, water dropped or not, are fine.

Thanks guys. It sure is nice having a resource like this.
I'm going to buy a thermometer before I cast any more so I know where my temperature really is. What brand of mold do you guys recommend ?
Is a 6 cavity mold going to be harder to use?
I'm hoping to load a few to take with me to tonight's shoot and test .

I've used Lee molds for years and have been satisfied with them.

I got the 16 to 1 out of the Lyman cast bullet handbook.
Too much tin?
I don't have any wheelweights.
All my lead is 100%pure lead! I ordered the tin and can probably order some antimony.

Jamie - a few of us here are also active members over at www.castboolits.gunloads.com If you think we've been helpful, that site is a gold mine for anyone interested in the art of casting. Look into Rotometals for your casting alloys if you don't have access to wheelweights or wheelweight ingots. You're casting awfully spendy projectiles with a 16:1 alloy. And gnoahh - Boolits= as God laid it into the soil,,grand old Galena, The Silver Stream graciously hand poured into molds for our consumption. . . Bullets= Machine made utilizing Full Length Gas Checks as to provide projectiles for the masses.

Fins are caused by too much gap betwixt the sprue plate and mould facing, too much alloy forced into the mould that overcomes venting and too much heat; Judging by the slight wrinkles, it isn't the latter.

1-16 ought to make beautiful photogenic jewels.

"Boolit"= twisted wordplay, not so very different from ebonics when you stop and think about it. Spelling phonetically, and with regional phonetics to boot, is a great way to further dilute the English language. They adopted that word over there on the Cast Boolits site name so folks could access the website without tripping censors on their workplace computers. Doesn't mean one has to use it everywhere one goes though. Newbies might actually think it's a legitimate word!

I frequent that website a lot, and have made some wonderful friends there, but I still cringe every time I see that word in print.

Another site that harbors a lot of folks willing to share their knowledge regarding cast bullets is The Cast Bullet Association website. I first joined the Association in 1980, just missing being a charter member. They have more of a focus on precision match shooting, and I suspect a fair number of them have read and understood Dr. Mann's "The Bullet's Flight", but still stop to patiently explain newbies questions such as "Can I shoot cast bullets in my Microgroove Marlin?"

It's all good. Personally I think we have a pretty good bunch of guys here too. Lots of knowledge to be had and to be shared. In the end that's all that matters, even if one doesn't know how to spell!

No, 1/16 is not too much tin in the alloy formula you are using. Your alloy is the correct ratio, and your bullets are fine. I used to use that alloy years ago, but I use less tin now as it's more expensive these days.

My only concern would be that your bullets might be slightly undersized to shoot well...maybe, maybe not...you'll have to shoot them to find out.

If they are somewhat small for your bore, that could cause accuracy or leading issues, and that could mean that the mold is slightly undersized for your uses, but Lee tumble lube moulds tend to run smaller, because they are designed to be shot as dropped without having to be sized. That can be a good thing, so you might be 100% good to go with your bullets just as they are.

The Lee 6cavity molds are very good moulds for the money. I use the 225 TC 45 mold #90289. The TC design feeds well and is generally more accurate than round nose designs. They have a TL design as well that would work better with liquid Alox.

When using the Alox, I just use two fingers to apply it to the grooves in the bullet shank to keep the noses clean.

But the bottom line here is that if your bullets feed reliably, shoot accurately and don't cause leading, none of these concerns are issues at all.

I wouldn't recommend trying to add pure antimony that is not already mixed with lead, as it's hard to get antimony to mix. It's better to start with antimony already alloyed in the metal. For the 45 acp, antimony isn't necessary, it's just another way to harden lead that is cheaper than buying tin, and antimony bearing alloy can be hardened by water dropping. For 45 acp that's not important.

So there is nothing wrong with your alloy, your alloy is fine as it is, and I would try shooting your bullets as they are now and see how they shoot.

If they are terrible, just melt them down and try again...:)

Gnoahh - thanks for the history lesson on "boolit" - I hadn't considered the work place implication.

I shot 3mags worth, 24 rounds last night after our clubs weekly bowling pin match.
Accuracy was good and they fed fine. I cleaned the pistol today and there was no lead in the barrel.
I bought a Lyman big dipper and a thermometer when I was at Cabelas this morning, I'll be doing smaller batches and should have better control of the tempature.

Sounds like a plan coming together.

Yay! You're off to a good start.

Selmer- I may have come off a bit harsh regarding my assassination of the word "boolit", for which I apologize. It certainly wasn't my intent. Sometimes I just get carried away!

In today mail I got a 3 pound bar of 30% antimony 70% lead and 1pound of tin.
Everything I read recommends a different mix. The last batch of bullets shot well without any leading so I want a mixture close to that with a little antimony for hardness.

In the end, whatever alloy gives the results you are looking for is a good one. The only thing I would advise is to seek an alloy that uses the least amount of tin you can get away with, because the stuff is so bloody expensive these days.

The 45 is a low pressure, low velocity round, so if the bullet is too hard, it won't expand to fit the bore, and poor accuracy and leading can result. I've never had a leading issue with the 45, but shooting bullets that are too hard can double group size.

A good basic alloy is around 95% lead, 3% antimony and 2% tin. 95/3/2. Hardness is controlled by heat-treating. For 45 you don't want it to be too hard, so air cooling is fine, but if you water drop, the bullets will be harder, and the same alloy can be used for magnum handgun and rifle. The point is that now you can control the hardness just by varying the heat-treating temp.

In order for this system to work, the alloy has to be reasonably close. Run your pot hot, and mold some ingots of your pure lead, antimony alloy and your previous lead/tin alloy. Work out the math and add them to the pot in the right combination to achieve the right blend. 95/3/2. Flux a few times to blend everything well.

This alloy will produce a hard, but not brittle, very high quality bullet that is versatile and better than most generic pre-cast bullets you will find. It's a good alloy to work with for just about anything up to magnum pistol and rifle, and better than is needed for 45 ACP.

For 45 and most handguns, the above alloy could be mixed with pure lead down to about 97% lead, 2% antimony and 1% tin, (97/2/1), with similar heat-treat capability and good results when water dropped.

For 45 and most handguns, the above alloy could be mixed with pure lead down to about 97% lead, 2% antimony and 1% tin, (97/2/1), with similar heat-treat capability and good results when water dropped.
This is is the mix I'm going to try, water dropped.

I've shot 150 of these now with great results so I cast 1400 more.
This will last me almost 4 months.
97% lead, 2%antimony, 1% tin! water dropped. Good accuracy and no leading.

Thanks guys for all the advise and suggestions.
You guys sure saved a lot of time and aggravation.

You sneak! You never said a word that you were going to get into casting! Nice job!

What powder are you shooting under them?

I've been shooting bullsey but I just came into 4 pounds of titegroup so Ill be switching.

I am casting the Lee 230 gr truncated cone tumble lube and shooting them without sizing. The are shooting clean in my RIA.

I hope to try this one day! just dont seem to have the time or if I have the time , not the money to get started!

Buy the equipment then when you have time, you can cast bullets without having to shell out any more money.

And start laying in a supply of wheel weights now if you plan on using them as a source for casting lead.