I'm curious to hear the Wisdom of the Campfire (tm) as far as this comparison. Let us assume an accurate 30-06, shooting 165-gn versions of both bullets. How would you expect the wound channel to differ? Penetration at 25 yards? Pentration at 250 yards? Accuracy on average? Reliability?

And finally, which one is the overall better bullet for game such as deer, hogs, black bear, caribou, moose, and elk? And why the HELL would you say THAT!?



-jeff

Anyone want to also discuss politics, religion and the moon landing conspiracy theory, too??? Ha, Ha, Just kidding, Jeff.

This should be interesting...

Yeah, I like to stir the pot, what can I say...

My wife insists we never landed on the moon. Whadaya gonna do? She's also held her figure very well into her 40's so I ain't complaining about a little irrationality! ;-) I tell her that her Indian name is Looks-Good-In-Jeans.

-jeff

The best D**N Accubond......

Is that a different bullet than just a regular Accubond?

TSX has proven to be the best big game bullet ever. Most accurate hunting bullet. Most consistent killer.
I will be testing the MRX on New Mexico antelope in about 45 days. I will let you know if it is as good as its older brother.

How you like them apples!!!

Of the two, as a bullet for the game cited, no contest; TSX. But the TSX would not be my #1 choice, given the others that are available today.

Grin...

Well I'm a TSX guy all the way but will have to admit, that in my 6.5x55 Win FWT I have never been able to get the TSX's to shoot good ( the gun has Issues) I loaded up some 130 AB's and the last load I tryed yesterday shot about .6, so if that continues Ill be good on it.

I will say that I can tell other people that the AB is a good bullet but when it comes to my stuff (mostly Mags of some sort) the TSX is the first and only thing I load for them.

I've had really great luck with Accubonds as far as accuracy, in several different rifles now... I've only killed one critter with one, a large blacktail buck, though. It did work extremely well.

So what exactly does the TSX do better? A complete lack of a failure mode? What?

-jeff

Jeff: The TSX is tougher.

So more suited for moose and elk, but not any advantage for lesser game, is that fair to say? Any DISadvantages with the TSX for deer, black bear, hogs, etc?

-jeff

This what JJ posted in a thread dealing w/ TSX's with his RSA trip recently...;


I strongly feel that Rifles shooting over 3000 fps *OR* when shooting game over the 400-500lb range justify the TSX bullet, and should be very strongly considered as your top choice. Also the bigger bore rifles seem to have flawless performance of the TSX. The much larger hollow point tip in bullets .358 and larger really opens them well!


Here is his comments about the TSX with smaller game such as Deer, etc...


Shooting slower cartridges, or smaller lighter game in the 100-400lb range there are all kinds of good options. The TSX still works well in this situation, but quite often zips clean through without a good reaction to the impact. Bonded core bullets and even cup and core bullets will more frequently show the impact shudder and stagger game a bit better upon impact. These comments are for non CNS, non structural bone impacts.

That has been my experience using the TSX on smaller big game such as Deer and Hogs. The TSX'ers will do the job but a quicker expanding bullet drops deer much quicker on average.

I"ve been running TSX and X slower than average.
Never had an issue. Gotta trail some, others not. I don't live and die on bangflops... I live on crunchtime performance and the x series has been best there.

As such, there is no best accubond and never will be..... vs a barnes.

Rost has a good approach. "Bang flops" are nice, but no bullet gives them 100% of the time; long, uniform wound channels produce solid, consistent results, even if game has to be trailed a few yards, and so long as the bullet expands sufficiently to tear up vital organs. There is no magic in an Accubond. So long as the cartridge drives a tough bullet fast enough to expand it at long range,the TSX should work fine on lighter stuff. I say this never having used them because I continue to use a lifetime supply of Bitterroots, which, like the TSX behave best when driven fast.

One of the things I've liked about X bullets for moose-sized, but also lighter animals as well, is that you can hit bones and not get the same jelly effect that is so common with lead cored bullets. ( I think particulate spray may be a big factor in the blood jelly phenomenon.) I once turned a young bull's pelvis into charcoal briquet sized chunks (with a .358 225X) and the "mess" - not that it really was- was simply fine meat with an occasional large bone lump needing to be cut out. There was virtually no blood pockets or clots in the meat. I suppose, but don't really believe, the the initial shot had so well drained his blood as to account for it. Many lengthwise "drillings" of 200-ish pound caribou with smaller caliber and weight X bullets has shown similar absence of bloody deposit around the bullet track, yet they have killed very quickly.

Accubonds that tumbled inside deer without hitting anything on the way in... Not what I expect nor accept from a bullet.
art

Those accubonds look OK. However they should have exited; you shouldn't have even found them!

-jeff

IMO, an Accubond is a really not such a hot bonded bullet when you compare it some of the better ones out there, past and present. I'll take a Swift Aframe any old day.Weight retention in the 40%to 60% range is not why you buy a bonded bullet.

I went to South Africa in May on what was mostly a cull hunt, but also involved some trophy animals. Altogether about 20 hunters killed 181 animals from springbok up to eland. (There were two Cape buffalo killed as well, but neither hunter chose a TSX or AccuBond.)

Of the overall bullets used in various rifles, cartridges, etc., the TSX and AccuBond tied for most-chosen, and in numbers far outstripping any other bullets. This is among hunters who mostly did not know each other beforehand, and in cartridges that covered the spectrum from 7mm-08 Rem. and .270 WCF to .338 Win. Magnum and .375 H&H.

I took notes every evening on what everybody shot during the day, and the results. The results wil be published in the next issue of RIFLE, which might be of interest to anybody in this debate. It will be out any day now.

JB

What an advertisment for the next issue of Rifle!!

JB, do I get a free issue for giving you such a good setup? :-)

I've only used an Accubond on one head of game, a big-bodied blacktail buck at about 80 yards with a 30-06 and 180-grainer. It worked absolutely perfectly; bullet performance could not possibly have been better. Broke the onside shoulder bone, exited the far flank after about 2 feet of penetration, didn't trash the onside shoulder meat, and the buck fell where he stood.

I know a blacktail deer shot with what amounts to an elk load is not a true test of a bullet. On the other hand, this ain't Africa! Jeepers creepers peoples! I feel kind of like Brad has mentioned feeling when people start talking like the existance of something like the 300 RUM has turned the 30-06 into a popgun, good only for coyotes all of a sudden. In the same way, as good or not good as the TSX might be, it's not like every other premium bullet is suddenly inadequate. I mean there are people out there thinking that they NEED that TSX for those 150-lb deer... that's silly.

THAT said, I'll use whatever is best. Hunts are expensive, bullets are cheap. I think I'll stick with the 225-gn Accubond as my elk load from my .338 WM, because I've put in a lot of work with it in the last year and have my drops etc all figured out and verified ad nauseum, but maybe next off-season I'll buy some TSX's and see if they shoot for me. If the TSX will shoot as well as the AB in my rifles, it'll get a chance in the field. The dang regular X bullets have only cost me a couple hundred dollars and a bunch of exasperation in the past, when I have failed to find loads that shot... but I hear the TSX is better in that regard.

The one that intrigues me the most is the 8mm 180-gn TSX. How do you all think it would compare in penetration and killin' power to a 200-gn Partition, all else equal, from a .325 WSM? Hmm.... I think I'll flesh that question out some and ask it as a new thread.

-jeff

The 110g AccuBonds are pretty accurate in my Roberts, the only place I have tried them, but so are the 115g TSX's which I have laoded in several of my .30's.

When t comes to actually grabbing a box of relaods and going hunting, though, I grab North Forks. If I wasn't using them I'd be using Trophy Bonded or A-Frame. (In fact I do use the 120g A-Frames in the Roberts as no North Forks are available in a .257".)

JB: Sure everyone buys those two bullets; they get more press than the present presidential candidates. I just, for the life of me, fail to see what is so special about the Accubond.I think it was brought out by Nosler because they needed something with a plastic tip that was a bit tougher than the BT.Which is all it really is, IMO.Don't get me wrong, I have one 7 mag that loves them, and I have 500-600 of them in my supply, but I would never take one to Africa, or where the game gets over deer size.Just don't see any advantage over a Partition or an Aframe.

The advantage for me is that my rifles don't group the partition nearly as well as either the accubond or the tsx.

The notion that Partitions do not shoot, or Aframes for that matter, is simply untrue;I've shot so many sub inch groups, and sub MOA to all ranges with Partitions.If your rifle shoots a bullet at or under an inch, getting slightly tighter groups does not help anything.

Besides, you don't shoot big game animals with groups.

Hunt enough of this kind of country and and one starts striving for bangflops:

I for one will always take a cup n core or Accubond/Interbond over a TSX for deer sized game. Who would want to bail off in this hell hole let alone try to pack a deer out of it!

MtnHtr

This is why I would use my .338RUM with 210gr TSXs and shoot the shoulder out. I think that there is alot of difference between the two bullets but the accubond is a great bullet. Not as great as the TSX but still very good. As for needing a tsx for 150 pound deer use what you are comfortable with I would just plain have penetration than something that might blow up. If my TSX fails to open then both shoulders are broke and deer is still going nowhere. Nothing is fool proof but for me the TSX comes as close to perfect as anything. HAPPY HUNTING

Thats one of reasons I avoid the TSXs, animals don't always expose their shoulders while hunting thick cover. Plenty of times I've had to place bullets behind the shoulders and the animal simply folds with CnC or even the NP bullets.

One poster stated 20grs of bullet does not make a difference, I think it does and can on a marginal hit. I've seen game that was recovered if it were not for a single fragment of lead or copper that made it to the heart or spine. Give me 40% to 60% bullet retention, I simply love it.

I do think the TSX can make the smaller cal cartridges into viable deer cartridges (the 22 & 6mms come to mind). But shot placement is going to have to be perfect with less room for error.

Just my thoughts, no flames intended.

MtnHtr

Sissy!!!!!

I think searching for a bullet that gives instant "lights out" kills all the time is an interesting intellectual exercise but pretty much a waste of grey matter, because they do not exist. I once ran about a dozen "in the tracks" kills with 130 and 140 gr Bitterroots fired from 270 and 7 Rem Mag rifles, and thought "BINGO", I've got the formula. Then, one evening, right at dark on the side of a mountain in Wyoming, a pretty fair buck stopped in an opening in the buck brush and scrub pines at 300 yards. I fired and saw him lurch at the impact. I got up there and he was nowhere to be found. For fear of pushing him in the dark, we waited till the morning and found him stone dead about 50 yards away (the meat was fine).

The 140 gr B'root had smashed both shoulders and was found in the offside under the skin. The lungs were "clean", untouched by the path of the bullet, but both shoulders were a train wreck. As we all know, a deer's shoulders are not attached directly to his skeleton like ours are, but by muscle, or whatever.So even a shoulder shot will not drop them where they stand all the time, if the spine is missed.

A guy can search for a lifetime and never find a combination that always dumps 'em where they stand. If he thinks he found it, he has not shot much stuff.On deer, differences between these bullets is pretty trivial.Personally, I'll take more penetration than I think I need in a bullet.

I use to use the Winchester Supreme Partition Golds up until the Accubonds come out in 2004. I got tired of the soft nose of the bullet squaring off from being cycled from the clip to the chamber and out at end of the hunt in my 300WM. The PG's were a great bullet for me on game.

From the performance I have been getting @ the range for grouping and on big game here in Alberta (elk/moose/wt/mulie/bears), I'll be sticking to my Accubonds (140gr in my 270WSM and 180gr in my 300WM). MOst shots have be complete pass throughs, with major internal damage. Distances at game ranged from 45 metres to 554 metres.

Before I started to reload, I was shooting the factory Winchester Supreme 180 AB in my 300WM. My buddy has the same rifle and harvested a moose that season with 1 shot. Small entrance with huge exit wound. I took a NT Mulie buck on the last afternoon of the season @ 45 metres with a rear quarter behind the LF shoulder. When dresing the animal later at the farm I found the bullet in the hide after it passed thru the RF shoulder. I weighed it at work and it weighed 150gr (83.3% retained-Nosler says min. 60%). I then harvested a 8x7 whitetail an hour later @ 554 metres with complete pass - thru. Both animals dropped in their tracks. I was surprised at the mulie that the bullet did not exit but the expansion of the bullet and weight retained made me happy.

My wife took her first mulie and cow elk that season with her 270WSM-same resluts- 1 shot, complete pass thrus. I have taken moose and elk with the 270WSM , and this past season my wife took her first bull moose @ 325 metres double lung shot- complete pass thru. I told her to shoot again as I did not want the bull to make it to the timber. Both shots very close together. The bull maybe went 20 metres and dropped.

In defence of the TSX, I did buy a selection of them for my 270WSM's and 300WM (140gr-270WSM, 150/180/200 for my 300WM)for reloading, but the performance at the range and on the game with the AB's, I only reloaded some 200gr. Got good small clover leaf grouping but felt the 180gr best for my 300WM.

With the performance of the 270WSM with 140gr AB's, I just traded my new box of 140 TSX for some AB's and bought the remaining 2 boxes at one dealer b/c I couldn't find them at other dealers-hard to come by right now.


To each there own, as depends on what your rifle likes to shoot. For me I'm under 0.5" 5 shot group @ 100 metres with my Sako m75 SS 300WM (3 shots @ 0.28") and for my 2 Tikka T3 LS 270WSM's both shoot great - 0.4" 5 shot groups out of one and 0.6" out of the other but I'm tweaking the load right now.

Hard to say which bullet is better as I have seen failures on both. The TSX not expanding or petals falling off to the AB's coming apart with not much left.

Here is a great pic of the shot/wound on a large bull elk harvested by a fellow (pic taken off another forum)in Alberta last year using 200gr AB's from his 300RUM. Quite impressive if you ask me! Pic is of the exit wound looking towards the entrance wound.




Great topic. Its good to se the good/bad and opinions in both types of bullets.

Jeff,

PM me your address and I'll mail you a copy....

JB

Yup. If one wants a bang-flop aim for the head--and then it really doesn't matter what bullet a guy is using.






I have not seen shoulder shots drop an animal much quicker than the behind-the-shoulder shots either. Plus, even a slightly angled shot can easily miss the off shoulder. Although I do think a shoulder shot will slow them down quicker and make it obvious the critter is sick.

In my case, it was ingrained into me from day one that in my family, we don't waste meat by shooting 'em in the shoulder. I intuitively, instinctively, automatically put the crosshairs tight behind the shoulder...........even today, if one shoots a deer/elk in the shoulder, he can expect some ribbing from my dad and his cronies






Yup.

In the 80's I wanted bullet PENETRATION. Then, because the previous owners of what was renamed Barnes were local boys, I got a hold of some of the first run production X Bullets (1988?, 1989?). Eventually I figured out there could be such a thing as too much penetration--even with my "marginal" elk killin' 270W.

I err on the side of penetration too, but there is more to terminal ballistics I have found.

Casey

+1 on the accuracy; they are astounding. Partitions are good that way, AB's are great.

Another factor for me is availability. A-Frames are hard to get locally, requiring a visit to the gunshop at best, and probably bugging them to keep in stock what I need. Accubonds are easy to get in a Mart a few miles away.

If I was going to Africa, I'd use something else, probably, except maybe not for plains game. It'll be interesting to see what JB's article has to say! In the lower 48 of the US of A, they seem like an excellent bullet to this hunter. I hope to test one on a bull elk from my .338 this fall!

-jeff

I did some editing.

I agree with this. I thought I "had it" with my .358; that sucker was dumping deer in their tracks left and right until THIS little guy:



Took that hit and ran 200 yards!!

As far as deer and penetration, though, I've just never seen the problem! I've killed them with Corelokt, Silvertip, Speer FP's, Partitions, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, Interbonds... maybe a couple others and NEVER recovered a bullet yet!

-jeff

So would that make it the August issue?

J

Gotta be the August issue. Looking forward to the article.

Jeff

When you get to messing with the 225 tsx PM me... I"ve got data on it, pretty good data. Have 3 charges of powder that all shoot sub moa in a Rem 338 WM. Best was shooting .4 and under for 3 shot groups.....

Jeff

Yep, August issue. I can hardly wait to read it myself. Am getting old enough that I forget what I wrote in between issues!
One advantage to that is that everything seems new!

JB

Here is my final take on this(I hope I can refrain further)

Anyway, animals have been being killed by a hole in the correct area of the vitals for years.. Arrows, spears etc.. cut a bit too. Big lead balls didnt do all the much and neither did conicals.. but they still died and were found.

SO thats why I err on the penetration side. Figure if I can get the hole where it needs to be, regardless of angle and expansion factors, its generally a done deal. I may have to push that bullet so for the once a year chance.... I choose the safety net. If its a hunt I can or will walk away from a bad shot, then its a non issue as to bullet. In the meantime the X bullets have worked so well from so many different angles and speeds I stick with em and not nearly as much blood shot meat.

IF you can't get that round to penetrate into the vitals it will impede your ability to take angling shots if needed. Cool by you, then its cool if you know your limitations.

After that its pretty much back to preference of wanting a bang flop or not..... that being said I know of one round that produced a bang flop on 150ish pound whitetails every time it was ever used. I totally disagree with the use,but..... 220 swift a friend hunted with for years... the smaller bullet, not sure which as i've never owned one, but in HP. Shot every deer he ever shot in the flank of the guts. Bang flop every time, which usually meant 3-5 deer a year....

Jeff

Jeff,

would you mind to drop me the data also in a pm? I'm looking for reliable data on exactly the same combination?

cheers,
Gerry

Rost495,

I'm pretty sure the Accubond will penetrate an elk as far as it needs penetratin' from my .338. Hopefully. I'll be interested to read JB's article. If they were seeing bullet failure on elk-sized critters from calibers similar to my .338, then I'll rethink things!

I wish I still had the photo of the one accubond kill I've made. Well, I do have this:



That's the buck. 180-gn from a 30-06. I had another picture of the exit wound WAY back on the deer's right flank that made it obvious that the bullet had penetrated a lot of deer, then exited "with prejudice" as they say. That pic was on my cell phone when I ran it through the wash.

So I'm having a hard time imagining that a 225-gn AB is going to be in any way inadequate from a .338 Win Mag.

I'm super-curious to read JB's article now! If they had problems with 'em, I'll probably do a last-minute reloading fiesta and switch over to the TSX, if they will shoot that is.

-jeff

I think the Interbombs suck azz.Don't mind the way the Nosler looks.Ain't ever shot a Swift bullet.

Casey: All true enough and you never stop learning. After seeing some of the worthy opinions on here regarding the Accubonds, maybe I should reevaluate. After all, what the hell do I know; I've only shot one lousy deer with the things!

It's too bad we can't all hunt all year, all the time... a guy could learn a whole lot real quick that way! I guess a safari is kind of like that. Instead, we all have this 10-month offseason to obsess, debate, split hairs, etc!

The truth is, I think, that these ARE the good old days in terms of bullets and rifles. With CNC machining, rifles are much more precisely built (albeit not hand-fitted like ye olde days) and on average much more accurate. Same with bullets- better in every way. And scopes are the best they've ever been. In fact I bet I could come up with FIVE bullets I'd be perfectly happy loading into my .338 and taking elk hunting. And I'm picky!

I'm not certain that anything is better than the old surplus Euro army surplus pants I bought 20 years ago, though. Comfortable, breathable, warm, cool, warm when wet, tough, etc etc. I have other hunting pants, some that cost in excess of $200 (Rivers West) but the wool surplus pants rock. I ski in them 15 or 20 days a year, too.

(Not all are equal. I also have a couple pair of fairly poorly made surplus wool army pants)

-jeff

Jeff

I don't doubt the AB will work most of the time... Its that time when you have a shot that requires south to north that will be questionable.
Having seen standard cup and core AND partitions stopped totally from my 300 wtby and both 180s and 200s from average sized whitetails 3 times now, I try to leave nothign to chance. Rate its going I may have one shot at an elk.. I don't want to fudge on account of the bullet choice. Note one of the above deer was over 200 pounds and his NECK stopped the partition at just over 100 yards, IE had to shoot him with a 22 to finish him, all he was, was paralzyed and that from a side ways neck shot, not any penetration required.

Have no experience with AB type bullets but know that an X will hold together better.

BTW get anything but the worst shot on an elk and you would have no problem, probalby even with cup and core....

Jeff

Rost: You are better off to hedge with a tougher bullet; could not agree more.

My opinion is the south to north shot (is this whats called the Texas Heart Shot-or maybe I'm mis-interpreting south-north) is a very poor shot and should not be taken. Got to be fair to the game in which you are going to harvest-no matter what type of bullet you choose to use. Wait for the animal to stop, and turn broadside or quartering away. No matter how big a whitetail or mulie buck, elk or moose, bear, I would not take the S-N shot. Most of the time you can get the game to stop & turn with a noise, or just stay quiet and wait for them to turn.

This post is not to rile anybody up, maybe clarify to me what south to north is, or did I hit it bang on.

Your bang on.

Maybe it's because I don't hunt at the speeds that some people do- I usually am looking for a MV of 2600-2900 fps- but I just have never seen anything close to what you describe, Mark! I've had full penetration with every single deer I've ever shot (only 14 of them, so not a huge sample granted) and using many different calibers and bullets, from .32 WCF to 30-06. So a Partition stopping in the neck of a deer is just beyond my ability to imagine!

Believe me, I ever see that, I'll use TSX's for sure, I'd guess.

I'm thinking that I'll stick with Accubonds for elk for now, pending JB's report from Africa. For deer, in my "moderate" deer calibers (.358 Win, 7mm-08, 30-06) I don't think bullet failure is going to happen pretty much regardless of what I use.

It's amazing what that extra 300 fps that something like a Weatherby magnumb does for you, in many many ways. It's only another 10% or a little more in terms of velocity, but it's in that last 10% that things seem to go wonky, you know? As far as bullets failing.

All this TSX talk got me thinking I should run out and try them in my .358 for blacktail then I think... WTF, Jeff, are you really worried that a .35 caliber, 200-gn Hornady Interlock at a MV of 2600 fps is in any way not complete OVERKILL for blacktail deer? That's pretty funny, really. It's funny how our sense of scale gets skewed if we are not careful.

-jeff

The other thing that happens Jeff is that there is a point in the year when we're very far from last season and the up n coming season isn't quite close enough that if we don't watch it micro mgt and ballastic gack 301 can take over.....grins

Dober

Ya THINK?!

:-)

-jeff (bear hunting in 12 days... and I don't even particularly want to kill one! Just ready to stop talkin' and get out in the woods!)

MightyPeace

You have that right of an opinion. I simply have finally realized in some situations its a fleeting shot with NO chance of turning etc... as I've said many times, here at home on a meat whitetail, no big deal. But they do call an animal of a lifetime that for a simple reason, you get one shot. I prefer to be armed and capable if that time ever comes. Especially if dropping something like 30-40K on some of the hunts too expensive for me...
The shot is not unethical at all, IF you are set up for it. Most would shoot north to south, while condemning south to north. Same exact shot and results will be the same with the right bullet/cartridge.

Jeff
I tend to have not run my wtbys hot. IIRC the over 200 pound buck was with a 180 partition at just about 3K, not any faster. Extremely accurate. And you know what? I'd have never believed the results myself till I SAW it with my own eyes. You tell me a similar story and up till some years ago I'd have called you a liar. After guiding and seeing 300 plus deer a year killed, I started to see the better importance of a good bullet,strange things happen. Including that one buck I refer to, double lunged, cup and core bullet, was killed 3 weeks later running a doe, neck shot. Hole in a rib going in and out... we had bone frags from the rib, fat, tissue, and some blood. Deer had healed up and was 100% again..... I use what I have not seen fail. Simple as that. About everything else I"ve seen fail. Though I"ve not shot a lot of swifts or northforks etc....

Just my take which has served me well so far. I like penetration, probably why my MZ 54 slugs are 565 grains.....

Jeff

I guess you are saying that your definition of a good bullet is a TSX, then, right? Because you've seen everything else fail?

Well, that's fair enough. Having seen everything I've thrown at a deer SUCCEED, and nothing fail, I'm inclined to think of things like the Partition as a "good bullet". I think the Accubond is a good bullet; it lacks the track record of the PT, though, to be sure. The dang things do shoot like a house a'fire and the only one I've seen meet meat did a dandy job.

Next time I'm awash in money I'll buy me some TSX's and see if they'll shoot for me. The 165 gn TSX, which I think Brad uses, sounds very interesting in my 30-06. Likewise, isn't there a 210 gn for .33 caliber? That's interesting too.

I really appreciate and enjoy the tales and info that you more experienced guys donate to my threads and to the 'fire in general! Thanks!

-jeff

Last year I shot a nice sized white tail buck with a 257 weatherby loaded with 110 accubonds at 3550 fpc. The deer was quartering toward me at under a hundred yards. The bullet hit it in the center of the sholder and pretty much blew it to pieces (no saveable meat) went through the chest and guts and was recovered under the hide just in front of the hind quarter. The bullet had a perfect mushroom and retained about 50% of it's weight.
I don't care if it don't retain all of its weight if it penitrates like that especially hitting and smearing solid bone at that speed. I have shot or been around others that have shot 4 other deer and an elk with accubonds and they worked perfect as well.
My opinion is that the accubond is one of the best performing bullets you can buy to go along with really good accuracy and down range ballistics.
They open up really fast and yet penitrate really well do to shedding some weight and having not too fat of a mushroom which is exactully what nosler designed it to do.

I like the fact that it continued to penetrate after blowing up that shoulder. I don't like the fact that it blew up that shoulder, although that's more a function of the choice of caliber. Light bullet going real fast, etc.

-jeff

I have had regular cup and core bullets stopped by average szed whitetails, once with a 150gr power-point out of a 30-06 and a 140gr speer hot-core out of a 6.5X55 so i now err on the side of penetration.

Jeff, no offense, but 14 deer is not that many, shoot enough of em and you will see some strange stuff. All i know is it really sucks looking for an animal in the thick mountain laurel with no blood trail.

I have to totally agree that there is no "holy grail" of bullets that will magically drop the animal on the spot, most will run, so why no have a blood trail? Maybe im just used to bow hunting but i have become very proficient at tracking game so its not that unusual for me.

Frank, you must be on the same page as I am in the book! Probably same sentence...

Jeff

Yes thats what I'm saying exactly. I've yet to see any X fail. From under 50 yards, hard and fast and light, to over 800 and big and slow. But I could care less about bang flops. If I want or need that I'll shoot em in the head or just C1-2. BTW don't get so hung up on the cost... X series are only expensive in load development. Beyond that I never practice with them. I always shoot something else, generally a 22 or 223. Trigger time is that, I can transition gun to gun with no issues. I have drop tables taped on the stock or in my pocket.

Jeff

I've had excellent results with the TSXs, and I've had mixed (including poor) results with the AccuBonds.

When in doubt, go with a Nosler Partition and your results will seldom or never be in question. I'm not sure how many animals I've killed with Partitions over the last 25 + years, but the number has been considerable, and I've yet to have a failure: Accuracy has been tops as well.

Most of these questions are only as complicated as you want to make them............

AD

264bore,

Yeah, I do know that 14 is a small number. Hey, it's shooting 'em as fast as they'll let me here in Oregon! We just don't get the kind of tags some of you get... for a while there, if everything broke right, you could get 3 tags, and I did that twice, but they've shut that down and now 2 is the MOST you can get (doe and a buck), and getting that doe tag is far from a sure thing.

I've filled every tag they've issued me, except one year I didn't fill the 3rd tag. I got an elk that year and didn't need (or even WANT) the meat.

Anyway, I hear you. I do have to put my own experiences pretty high on the list of what I trust, though, and in 14 deer, using 5 different calibers and at least 8 different bullets, I have ALWAYS seen full penetration. So... personally, I have not seen penetration to be any kind of issue in deer, using the moderate calibers I choose.

Hey, since this is a TSX thread, I broke down and bought a box to try in my .325 WSM timber elk rifle, a Browning BLR lever action. Spendy little bastards, but they seem to shoot:



That last group is a max load of H4350 (67 grains) and should be about 2850 fps with the 200-gn bullet. It's 1.15" center to center at 110 yards. Not quite up to my best bolt rifles (or AR's, for that matter) but perfectly acceptable.

So I guess I'm on the TSX train, at least for that rifle. Since it's meant to be a closer-range, large-game rifle I decided that the TSX was probably even better than the excellent Partition I'd already worked up a load for.

Now I just need an elk to try it on!

-jeff

I've tried both Accubonds and TSX in my guns. Accubonds shoot better for me, so that is what I use. This is for whitetails, but I wouldn't hesitate to use them on elk. It is a good feeling to know the animal is dead before you ever pull the trigger. Accubonds give me that confidence. If I could get TSX to match that consistent accuracy, I wouldn't hesitate to use them. The only Accubond I ever recovered had retained 70% of its weight after travelling through about 30" of Mid-MO 8 point buck.

Ah, BUT! A TSx would have penetrated 30.5" !

:-)

I'm happy with my Accubond loads; as you say the dang things are flat-out accurate. I've only killed one deer with them so far but they are my elk load in my .338 (225's) and my all-around load in my 30-06 (165's at 2950 fps).

I am trying out TSX's in my timber elk rifle, a Browning BLR in .325 WSM, on the theory that for that particular demanding task they might just be the best thing that exists. They seem to be shooting "good enough"; that rifle is right at MOA with a couple other loads, and that's what I'm getting with the TSX's.

So I guess I've got a foot on either side of the fence!

-jeff

"my all-around load in my 30-06 (165's at 2950 fps)."

Wow, what is your load?

I looked, it's actually 2940 fps. Sorry!

It's a Hodgon book max charge of H4350 and a 165 Accubond and Winchester brass and an F210 primer. Might be slightly over. Here... hang on, I'll go look... OK, it's 59.5 gr of H4350. It would not surprise me if that's over book max, so BE CAREFUL!!

The key ingrediant, however, is my VERY FAST 22" Pac-Nor barrel. It'll touch 3100 fps with 150's, too! Love that barrel.

I know it seems like I'm making this up but look in the Hodgon mini-book and you'll see that those are right at the speeds they say are possible. I just, for once in my life, got a rifle that will actually hit book speeds. I have had some slooooow barrels in my day...

-jeff

I FEEL THIS IS DEAD ON ACCURATE AND WHY I USA ACCUBONDS OUT OF MY 308 WIN and may use them out of a 338 win mag

some accubond carnage all with 308 win 150 grainers loaded @ 2840 MV..

Shots were from 20 yards to 230 yards...i havent recovered one yet.. all deer were 110 pounds or less and alll shot behind the shoulder....none went more than 50 yards






ENTRANCE





ENTRANCE





THIS ONE GOT SOME OF THE GUTS--236 yards





Another Exit

My wife told me the other night that she is NOT overweight. She was UNDER weight when we got married!
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