Can anyone tell me where I can purchase a "good" pair of wool pants w/o cargo pockets. I really dont care for Cabelas. Thanks in advance for any replies.

filson or woolrich dealers, thrift stores seem to have thwm often too.

I bought a pair of Codet[made in Canada,I think], several years ago from Cabela's when they handled them. they are green, and no cargo pockets. I wear them every year for deer season. They look as good as new, and at the time were only about $30 + shipping. You might look in a surplus store and see if you can find a set of military wool pants. I had a set of them[$8] for years til I "out grew" them.

Mad Dog

maybe check these guys out.

they are right here in MN, they have a good reputation for quality.

http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/bemidjiwool.php

One of the many options that this outfit offers�
http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/product/m1951-wool-field-pants-3429.cfm

CP.

Surplus mil wool trousers are always a good option..

Here's two pair for less than 20.00(German) w/o cargo pockets that'll give good service for med weight wool trouser needs.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=151230

Goodwill, Value Village and surplus stores have decent wool trousers for pennies on the dollar of what you'd pay new.

Wool dress pants from the thrift clothing stores , layered if necessary, can be found at thrift stores with suits..Jim

My favorite most weather-versatile are Filson ripcords. No cargo's. Comfortable and very tough; not inexpensive at the outset but considering that my two are going on 10+ years they are proving worth it.

Gdv

When I was growing up in NH, Johnson wool hunting clothing, made in Johnson, VT, was the most common good quality outerwear. They still make good quality clothing that is usually sold for less than the suggested retail price on their web site.

www.johnsonwoolenmills.com

Beagle, also in VT, sells wool hunting clothing that has current technology liners. I have a Beagle jacket that I would probably wear more if I hunted in colder weather.

www.beaglewear.com

Much of the Canadian-made Codet line uses a softer, less expensive, wool blend. I have a Codet jacket that I have cached in NH as part of a pre-positioned hunting kit that I keep there in case the mood ever moves me to go hunting back there.

FWIW, I have not had particularly good success with surplus wool clothing. While I have had great success with the surplus German Gore-Tex pants that Sportsmansguide sells, the wool clothing that I have bought has not stood up very well. The East German was the worst, but even the higher quality West German and Swedish wool pants were less rugged than the not much more expensive Codets.

Jeff

I've bought Norwegian and German surplus pants from Sprotsmans guide. Never spent over 15 bux on them. They are a bit heavy, but they are bullet proof.
Get a good pair of suspenders and you're all set.

Jeff, I've got some of that johnson woolen stuff, bibs & a jacket. I like it, good stuff.

I still have the red & black plaid Johnson double cape Jac-Shirt that I got in 1970. The cuffs are a little ragged, there are a few tatters and tears, and it is far too small for the 2007 version of me, but it the fabric is still strong and the colors are still pretty bright.

I think that the store I bought it from, Hirsch's Clothing, may still be in business at the same location on Hanover Street, in Lebanon, NH.

I would probably wear a Johnson Woolen Jac-Shirt while hunting in the midwest today, except that wool is too much of a burr magnet and once those burrs get a grip into the wool, they are impossible to remove without destroying the piece of clothing.

Jeff

All I wear is the Johnson stuff.
The 28oz ugly grey plaid are the pants I have.
I do want to look at the Woolrich, I think it's called "Camwoolflage". One of the guys I hunt with got a set last year, looks pretty good.

If you're looking for a Woolrich wool hunting jacket, Sierra Trading Post had the grey Stag jackets on sale for $80. You'd need to wear an orange vest over it while hunting in most places, but $80 is a pretty good price for that jacket.

Jeff

Still have to wear a vest, but this is what I'm talking about. The pattern is woven in, not printed on. I checked them out and they're pretty nice.
http://www.cabelas.com/hprod-1/0033709.shtml

I am looking for washable wool so I don't have to take it the dry cleaners to get the blood and mud off of the pants...

You can end up spending more on drycleaning than the pants cost....

I currently use the Columbia Galatin wool pants, but they are heavy and have pockets.

Blood and mud are good.
Was told years back that dry cleaning wool hunting clothes removes much of the natural wool's oils. Most woolies will bead much water unless it is rubbed in. The most I do to mine is use a brush to remove caked on mud and blood. The rest can stay on my ugly grey pants.

"Might as Well Have the Best" If money isn't an object Filson is the best. I have a Mackinaw that is 20 years old worn daily for many winters and shows almost NO wear. They have a good variety of styles and weights and will sell direct if you need.

I love wool.

I have some surplus wool military pants of unknown manufacture that are just awesome. Completely bulletproof. I wear them skiing and hunting in the worst imaginable weather. I also use a dense wool felt beanie hat that is equally awesome.

Seriously, you have to spend some serious money to get a fabric that works better than wool, when you consider how well it breathes and how it will keep you alive even wet.

That said, now I hunt in Rivers West gear. I still ski in those wool pants though.

-jeff

I probably have 12 pairs of wool hunting trousers.All I use with suspenders.All are various shades of mil green drab..:)
Some are east German ( cold war era) and they are the heaviest with double layers on thigh-front and seat.
I had an old gal down the street replace the buttons with good HD metal fly zippers..:)
Some are Swedish mil from the 60's and some are Swiss mil.

I wash them by hand in warm water & woolite when that's needed, but generally, a light brishing after dirt or mud dries and they are clean enuf for hunting.
Wool CAN be revitalized concerning the natural oils.
Get some lanolin from the pharmacy and mix it well with 1/4 volume white gas into a solution and soak the woolen garments.

Allow to drip dry/blocked on a slightly inclined surface.
GODD competent dry cleaners can do even the finest woolens without harming them but that gets expensive..

I'd like to own nothing but Filson, but never had 500.00 for a suit of any sort that was considered spendable..:)
Milsurp wool is a great bargain..including the better blankets for use as camp blankets..Jim

I wonder if my "good" pair is East German... they are double in the thigh front but not in the seat, I don't think. Wonderful pants. Cotton-lined in many places on the inside, so not itchy, and just built like a tank.

I did manage to damage them last year. I was skiing in the early part of the season up at Mt. Bachelor, and I decided to hit the first black diamond (hard) run of the year... wiped out but good on some bizarre combo of crust and blown powder and started accellerating ass over teakettle down this very steep slope and ended up hitting some rocks at about 20 mph. Bruised my hip/back area so bad I can still feel it a year later and tore a hole in the pants. Got 'em fixed up again and now they are good as new!

-jeff

I've gone almost totally Polar Fleece. I buy cheap, light wool slacks at the second hand store and wear Polar Fleece over the top of them. If it's real cold, I add a light Gore-Tex rain suit underneath the Polar Fleece. Works great, it's light, and dry's fast. Plus, it's quieter than wool. Lot's cheaper too.

Thanks for all the replies. I do appreciate them.

I take mine outside and spray them with a hose and let air dry. That's all they get.

I use a medium weight pair of wool bib overalls with long legs that I can blouse for moderate temperature, say above 10 F., but a heavy set of Woolrich pants and coat for colder temps. The bibs are more comfortable and conveinient to me. I use the coat during some warmer times, but I have to be real careful not to over heat if I'm moving.

I wear both the pants and the bibs at 10F

Be careful with surplus military pants. They seem like a great deal but I had a pair that the threads had dry rotted on. It was one season and the pants literally came apart at the seams.

YMMV

I have tried every sort of woolen pant known and NOTHING I have ever seen comes close to Filson's whipcords, especially worn over Icebreaker merino bottoms. If, I were restricted to wearing ONLY ONR type of pant in the BC bush, year-round, it would be these, no question.

I have River's Edge and scads of other bush pants to enjoy, I WEAR Filson's almost every trip and only wish they still made the medium grey colour for sheep hunting.

Kute, you and me both... Filson Whipcord! I wear them alone or layer Midweight / Expedition weight Capilene under mine... I also have Surplus BRD heavyweight wool pants (with side pockets) but prefer the Filson whips for 95% of my elk hunting.

I like the Filson whipcords too for light pants, but mine won't fit anymore.....

For heavier duty stuff I'm using the stuff below:

King of the Mountain

Sleeping Indian Designs

Have had stuff from both of them for a long time and it wears really well.

MM

Gawd, and I thought Filson's were pricey!!! Gorgeous stuff, but, not really practical in weight or design for backpacking and that is why I prefer very loose Filson's over longjohns.

I would think that this gear would be the cat's azz for sitting on a horse packing out in really cold weather and on a deer stand as well. The synthetic has not been made, and, IMO, never will be, that equals really good wool for hunting.

Yea, those are very expensive duds. I got into KOTM years ago and still have all the stuff. For me, it scratches like a dog with fleas and doesn't cut wind. Perhaps they've put a wind bloc in the new stuff; but I've do wear it but never against the skin.

I've found that unless there's -15 and lower temps I don't need heavy pants and that the Filson whipcords with silk or other undergarment does well for me. They work through a remarkably wide temp range and with their smooth texture don't scratch me...and they are tough and strongly constructed.

Gdv

Filson whipcords.....yep!

Jeff

The Filson Double Mac is another quality wool piece of clothing but at 24 oz/yd and with multiple layers this is a heavy garment and is almost too much for me if moving at more than a leisurely pace unless it's way, way below 0 degrees.

While it's very well made it doesn't quite work for me in the layering concept.

Gdv

I won't own anything that I have to dry clean. Shrinkage is the problem with wool. It can be washed but you have to use cold water and KEEP THEM OUT OF THE DRYER. I've read that tumbling causes far more shrinkage than heat, but I can't explain why. I use the gentle cycle with cold water and mild soap like Woolite. The clothes don't come out looking crisp and new, but they're hunting clothes so who cares. If you're nervous about the washer, hand wash them in Woolite and cold water and hang dry. It works fine.

Dick

Filsons are the best that I've seen but I haven't spent the coin to keep in them since I "outgrew" my old pair. I have some mil surplus but they are so heavy that for many years I've used thrift store wool pants only for hunting and much of my backpacking.

As mentioned by others I like the thin, high quality dress pants of virgin wool best, cut roomy. They give wonderful lightness and freesdom of movement when climbing up steep ground, stepping over logs, etc. I cut a tiny hole in the hem of each cuff and insert a light bungee cord into the cuff of each leg, tied just tight enough to be loose on my bare leg but tight when stretched over a boot top. It is like built in gaitors that keep snow and debris out of the boot top. It keeps the pant cuff tight on the boot.

Add long johns or an over pant if it gets really cold.

I wash and rinse in a cold cycle and hang them to air dry after the spin cycle. No clothes dryer. I think the jostling tumbling off dryer action causes the tiny scales on the wool fibers to ride up on each other and catch, shortening and shrinking each twisted thread and hence the entire fabric. Sometimes if it is only one pair of pants I hand wash them with woolite in a sink. If they get torn up on a hunt, I burn them in my last campfire. They are so cheap that they are disposable. Dry cleaing would cost more than the pants did at the thrift store. Of all the garments that I wear, pants take the most beating: brush, rocks, wet, barbwire fences, etc. Either pay for something bombproof like Filsons or go with the disposables.

I buy the thin bungee cord by the foot or meter at either REI or Mountain Equipment Co-op. It is somewhere in the 1/16 to 1/8 diameter range, like a skookum rubber band. Slide it in the hem of the pant cuff till it goes all the way around and tie it to itself with barrel knot or two interlocking overhands, etc.

Wool rocks. It really does.

I have a jacket and pants made of the River's West stuff. THAT is an amazing fabric. Silent, waterPROOF, warm, soft, stretchy, extremely durable. It's like a microfleece that's also waterproof.

-jeff

I love wool, film cameras, and black powder, but we can do a lot better today. We have synthetics that, from the standpoint of cost, versatility and performance leave wool in the dust. JM.02.

I'll have to call Utter BS on that.

I've owned and used Synthetic Fleece/Pile since the late 1970's so I'm a Dyed in the Wool (grin) fan of synthetics. I can emphatically agree with Kutenay though, no synthetic has yet replaced quality wool on the legs for hunting purposes.

Fleece and pile pants under a shell are fine for alpine mountaineering and the like but wool on the legs trumps all for hard-core hunting.

I used to believe wool was king for hunting pants.Until I bought a pair of rivers west pants.Built in gator and vented.10x's more versatile then either pair of filsons I own.

I'm gonna +1 on the Rivers West pants, even though I already mentioned them once. They are amazing. I've pounded on mine for 4 seasons now and they are as new (functionally). Silent, oderless, waterproof, warm, stretchy, built like a tank. Awesome, and expensive. I also bought one of their jackets and it's pure bliss in variable but heinous conditions. You can get glopped on all day by freezing rain and snow and be warm and dry and confidant.

In pants, my next choice afterh the RW gear would be my surplus wool pants, the good ones, the ones I ski in. They are really great. In truly miserable conditions they are less of a "shell" than the RW stuff is. OTOH, they are more breathable. I have spent many hours in those pants in really ugly weather (hey, that's when the snow is best!) and they have never failed me.

Chalk me up as a big wool fan, AND also a Rivers West fan.

-jeff

Jeff, how much $ for the Rivers West pants?

If I remember right, the pants were about $120-$140 and the jacket was about $220. I had my local seamstress add snaps to the front pockets of the pants, and a drawstring on the jacket. For what it's worth, the only OTHER hunting garments that have been worth it to me to pay her to work on are... my wool pants!

You can sit in a puddle, or on wet snow, in the RW pants. On the flip side, the fabric itself is not very breathable but I'm DONE with the whole breathable thing. Breathable, as exemplified by Gore-Tex, means that you still sweat inside it BUT it's not waterPROOF. Worst of all worlds. The RW philosophy is to build garments from this wunder-fabric of theirs, and build the garment such that it's breathable by design. So, the pants have waterproof zippers on the sides of the legs, the jacket has chest and underarm vents. But when you seal them all up and hunker down for a day in the $hit, you stay warm and dry. And I thrash through brambles without even thinking about it in them.

If I want breathable and didn't fear wet snow or rain all day, I'd wear wool any day. I really, really love my wool pants.

Here's another wool story. I have a black beanie style hat that someone left out in my studio years ago. It's made of dense, felt-like wool like the army surplus pants I love. I also love this hat and have used it many days hunting and skiing in gnarly conditions. It's the perfect combo of warm, breathable, water repellent, etc. Anyway, my 12-year-old daughter tried it the other day and declared "this is my hat now", and I must admit it looks really good on her, very hip. So I went out, price no object, to replace that hat. Couldn't do it! All the wool stuff nowadays is that stretchier wool with hi-tech liners. Very good, I'm sure, but not my hat! So I took it back from her and told her to find herself a cool hat, price no object... so that I could have my old-school wool beanie back!

-jeff

Actually, this stuff (KOM & Sleeping Indian wool) is fine anywhere below 35F unless you're running a marathon.

Just wear the appropriate underwear and it works well. Much of my hunting is glassing & stalking so I wear it a lot.

It is expensive, but I've had it for years and wool wear very well.

As for wind resistance, no wool is windproof, but this stuff, worn under wool is close to being windproof:

Maxit Underwear

It was originally used by the NFL too.....I like it; just have to be careful how it's washed.

MM

Heres the Rivers Wst online shop. http://store.cascadedirect.net/servlet/Categories?category=HUNTING+GEAR

Haven't used it, know a few guys that do and really like it, only complaint I have heard is that you get pretty warm in it. I am going to go take a look at some Sitka gear tomorrow, figure it would compliment the wool stuff I have real well.

Yeah, it's not for 60 degree days!

Pretty sweet at -5 degrees though, and fine up into the 40's or so even when hiking hard, and the confidence you get from knowing that you WILL be warm and dry inside has kept me out in the elk woods with some big storms rolling in...

Nothing is perfect. If it could somehow be completely breathable, and yet still do what it does, that would be perfection. However, every piece of "breathable" gear is not waterproof, not even close, and not for long if it is!

-jeff

From the link provided, I have the Ranger pants and Ambush jacket... pretty much. I have early versions of those. They've changed them a little. Mostly adding the things I paid my seamstress to add!

-jeff

I have River's West, Impro, Cabela's synthetics such as Microtex and used their MT50 as well as Sporthill 35P and various other synthetics. As I said, I find Filson's whipcords FAR superior overall in BC hunting conditions and use them most of the time.

Attempting to carry a heavy pack in River's West gear in the BC mountains will make you sweat until you become dehydated and Filson's WILL stay warm and reasonably dry in even severe BC coastal conditions, the region of North America with the highest annual precipitation.

I started with synthetics in the '70s when they first came out, had probably the first Gore-Tex parka and tent in Canada, from Early Winters and Marmot Mtn.-Colorado and have returned to high quality wool because it works better. I normally hunt in temps from about 70*F down to about -10*F, but, have worn layered wool comfortably down to -41*F, it just works.

My main beef with wool in really wet conditions is not the warm factor- it's the takes 3 days to dry out again factor!

I don't think I've ever been truly cold in wool pants, not ever.

I really should try to figure out what country my surplus wool pants are from and find another pair...

What's the Filson Whipcords stuff cost?

-jeff

Ahh, DON'T ASK !!!! They AIN'T cheap!!!

Filson Whipcords

MM

Nice! Expensive. But who cares.

-jeff

I wash my woll stuff just fine, I wash in cold & then when I put them out to dry I kind of hand form/stretch if necessary & lay the stupp out flat on a table to dry, that way I can kind of get them hand pressed, shaped properly, pockets all laying flat etc & I just let them dry laying flat like that. haven't had any problems washing wool stuff if i do it that way.

When I am going out for the day I can pick a outfit to fit that days hunting so I have a range from BDUs to MT50 extreme weather coveralls..and lots of choices between. But If I am going into the ADKS in november (20-40F rain, sleet and or snow likely) and live under a tarp for 8 days at deer camp with one set of clothes... wool is the choice.

I have the filson whipcords and they are my pant of choice to about 20-25F and after that I swtich to some heavy woolrich bibs.

I infrequently hand wash my wool in woolite(every 2-3 years) and hang dry. seems to work fine.

I'm curious now.. I love my wool, but I have cheaper stuff. I"ll happily invest in whipcords, read much about them. AMortized over years thats cheap really.

What I"d like to know is that most hunting will be 0 or above up to 70s during the day. I"m in TX so lets just say whats cool to some is probably cold to me. Generally our hunts are seeing 20s at night as an average, up to about 35ish.... I use silk and merino wool under... and wear light nylon type fishing pants for the top... If I carried the whipcords and having the 2 layers under, will I be set if it dips really cold? Also how wind resistant are the whipcords, thats a big issue, especially for the wife.

Thanks, Jeff

Wool.. All the way.
I have one of the Filson Double Mac Crusiers, and it is warm, but HEAVY.

Rivers west are great for a blind but too hot to walk in and take forever to dry out....

I have not found them to be too hot with the legs opened up, not if it's cold enough ou that I'd be wearing them in the first place. They dry well in our woodstove-heated tent. I turn them inside out.

Again- I love my wool ,too.

-jeff

What's the Filson Whipcords stuff cost?

-jeff [/quote]

I've never seen the Filson Whipcords, and I'm sure they are top of the line. However, you probably pay a premium for a marginal increase in quality over LL Bean or Johnson. I've seen both the Johnson whipcords and the LL Bean whipcords. The weave on the LL Bean whipcords are just as tight and the wool just as heavy. Again, you can't beat their warranty. Check them out - here's the link.....

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/st...21&shop_method=pp&feat=502922-tn

Thanks Jeff, I'll have to check them out.

I like the French surplus pants for Oct. or so and Swedish mil surplus for later. Neither has cargo pockets...which I like so for late season I use Austrian or German woolies.

Another option to the Filson whipcords are these:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...amp;Nty=1&Ntt=whipcord&noImage=0

I've used mine hard for four years IIRC, and the only wear they show is where I hastily crossed a barb wire fence. They survived THAT better than many fabrics would have....

If you are a small or medium, I don't know how you could go wrong with this sale Cabela's has going. $4.88 for wool pants is hard to beat.

Link

The problem with filson,is you're paying for a brand name. Truth be known LL Bean probably uses the same mill as filson along with a host of others.

I've got a number of filson clothes and bags.To be honest filson doesn't perform any better then alot of the other brands.But it costs twice as much in some cases.I've got an upland coat,thats tin cloth and its probably been the only filson garment I've bought that was worth what I paid.

I picked up a stormy kromer mackinaw coat for a fraction,what I paid for a filson and its just as good and warm.

When king of the mountain wool took off in the late 80's,I bought some of it,because I had a connection to buy it at cost. Its good stuff,but you're just paying for warranty(I've torn it and had it replaced free of charge).And I've yet to see it out perform the cheap gallatin [bleep] that columbia has for $75.The sleeping Indian brand is about the same quality as columbia,at 3 times the cost.


The secret to using rivers west,is to vent everything before you over heat.Vents are in place for a reason,use them. I've used it on alaskan and canadian fishing trips,20 plus days of big horn sheep hunting last year,with temps ranging from 60 and rain to subzero and snow.Its performed better then any of the wool I've used and I've used wool for the past 30 years.

Wool may insulate when wet,but it also soaks up moisture and under field conditions requires a fire to dry it out properly.Wool is still durable and lasts forever.Wool is also one of those products,that is usually just as good in surplus garments,as it is in designer named garments.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

In fact, I go one further. Where I use my RW gear in very cold conditions, where it excells in addition to very wet conditions, there's usually a big hike into the hunt, and out. Unless it's actively snowing or raining, I just strap my RW jacket to the daypack I'm carrying. That way I am letting heat and moisture move out through my layers of capilene, wool, fleece, whatever. When I get where I am going I wait until I'm almost cold before putting the jacket on. Then I'm groovy all day.

I do wish my RW pants had side vents on the inside of the legs, too. I thought of buying a couple of their waterproof zippers from them and having my seamstress add that functionality but... have4 not done that yet. I also wish they'd put the zippers on the legs such that they zipped UP to close them, down to open. They are the opposite and if there's a foot of snow, say, that means you can't open the vents "a little" because you are starting to open from the bottom. I bet they've fixed that by now. My are first-generation pants.

For me it's wool or RW, pretty much. If things are too gnarly for wool the RW stuff will keep you in the woods all day! And I shoot a lot of my blacktail in the rain.

-jeff

Sledder, overall good reply..this rings particularly true for me:

"Wool is also one of those products,that is usually just as good in surplus garments,as it is in designer named garments."
-----------------------------------------------------------

WHY pay premium prices for new-designer-top name woolen trousers, coats, vests when for 2 cents on the dollar, quality surplus or used woolen garments can be found?

Must be the "buy a Hummer or new top rated by the gun rags rifle" so your friends think you are top shelf..:) mentality I suppose.
LAYER LIGHTER WOOLENS FOR COMFORT WHEN HIKING-WORKING HARD.
Ya don't wear your heavy stuff until you need it..Do you sleep with three quilts and the heat on in the summer?..:)

BTW, wool does dry pretty fast..

When mine gets soaked( we do hunt in real wet here and often without raingear), the water wicks downward 'cause of gravity..:)..
Without taking the trousers off..use your hands to 'squeegee' the water down and off from the front of the thigh down to the boot tops..Reduces the weight too for heavier woolen trousers.

Even wet tho, wool insulates and keeps ya comfortable.Jim

One reason, and it's a funny one, that more people don't buy surplus trousers is that they can't find them that fit! People used to be a whole lot skinnier than the average American is nowadays, plus those surplus pants were designed to fit 18, 19 year olds, too.

I know, ahem, that MY awesome surplus trousers that I love have been "let out" in every way they can. They were designed to have a "range" of waist size to 'em, but they can't get any bigger around the waist than they are now. So I can't get any bigger eigher! :-)

-jeff

Jeff..I know what you mean..
We have a local surplus place out east of us called Sargent Gator's Post Exchabge and they always seem to have some larger ones.

Thankfully, I still wear the same 33-34" waist & 34-36" inseam I did 40 years ago..:)
It's interesting that trousers and they way they were cut years ago seems different than many are used to in conventional trousers..
(Waist is higher and top is closer to the navel)and they almost all were designed for suspender use and ample seat-crotch for working men.
I have used RIT dye to dye a few pairs medium brown just to break the puke green mil color monotony but most are used just as they are..with the occasional change of adding a HD metal zipper to replace the button fly..Jim

I like the idea of replacing that button fly...

I'm not too far off from you, my ideal pants would be a 35" waist and 35" inseam, but I can work with anything from a 34" to 36" on the waist and same with inseam.

Side note, I was watching a World War I documentary a couple years ago and MAN, they showed this boot camp footage of a bunch of 18-year-old American men in 1917 or whatever it was and they looked like a whole different species, collectively, than if you took a bunch of 18 year olds now. They were seriously lean, whipcord strong, and shorter. They looked like they would kick our modern 18-year-olds collective BUTTS!

-jeff

Jeff,
60-75 years ago, much of America was rural farming, ranching, logging, fishing, mining etc... and the construction trades didn't have the power tools and heavy equipment we see today.

A day's work was VERY different back then than it is for most today.

Shucks, the women of those days would probably kick 2/3rds of the 18 year old men's arses today..:)

Even the young men from the larger cities worked hard in factories, the docks, or larger mills.
Little or no junk food.. and no 'couch time'..I can recall in our farm family of six with hired hands that when dinner was set on the table..grace was said and Dad and Mom were served up first.The rest of us dove in..Never any leftovers..:)

Cars were comparatively few..People actually walked most places..Jim

Thanks for all the replies..right now am considering the "Johnsons Pant Grey Herringbone" item #277...for medium weight wool pants..any opinions??

The Rivers West suit I have is too bulky for backpacking and quite heavy, light woolen clothing compresses well and is lighter. I worked all over BC in forestry, actually planting trees, fighting fires and such fun jobs, NOT "office work" and never found anything that will equal GOOD wool, overall.

BC is the WETTEST region in North America and I worked outside during many winter-spring days wearing ONLY wool in relative comfort. I have never found ANY synthetic that will do this and over 50 years of outdoor activities makes me even more enthusiastic about GOOD wool.

I bought Filson's BECAUSE of their sterling reputation AND because the other gear mentioned here is not available here in Vancouver or elsewhere in BC. Filson's actually ARE as good as they claim to be and Columbia gear is nowhere close in quality.

I have worn wool while solo winter camping at -40*F many times and this was for five day trips, in unheated mountain tents, in BC mountains. I have yet to see a synthetic that will equal this and I have used many of them.

I think that Johnson products are a good product at a fair price. I have owned both the #115 Adirondack Plaid and the #274 Spruce Green pants without any complaints.

I don't recall ever owning any Filson clothing, as the price always put me off.

You might check with www.farm-way.com, www.labonville.com , or Hirsch's Clothing (603-448-2454) for better prices. I have been told, but do not personally know this to be true, that Labonville's sells Johnson 2nds under their own name/house brand.

Jeff

I bought a pair of the Cabelas whipcord wool pants and they have been great. I accidentally threw them in the dryer while in Kodiak last week and they shrunk big time. They are useless to me now. That is the downfall to wool these days- it requires special care beyond the normal laundry and it is hell to dry when camping.

I am going to go to the thrift store and find some wool suit pants and use them.

One very important thing to look for when you purchase wool clothing is the fiber content. 100% wool is, of course, the best choice. Try to stay away from a wool/nylon blend. The "sharpness" of the nylon fibers prematurely wears out the wool. 100% wool will last much longer. Filson is 100% wool. I was sorely disappointed with the last woolrich jacket I bought. It has nylon in it and it is pilling already, an obvious sign something is wearing out.
M

Put me down as another Filson's believer. I have the Mackinaw and the wool pants. Both have been an essential part of my hunting gear for years.

Filson may be expensive but to me it's worth every cent.

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Dennis in AZ:
Don't give up on the wool whipcord trousers that shrunk.
Soak them overnite in warm water.
Remove & drip a bit so they aren't soaking wet.

THEN take them.. and starting with waist band ...and then on to inseam length and leg width, stretch and pull and then lay flat & block out on an old beach towell to dry for a day or so.

You'll be surprised how they restore to proper size with a bit of warm-wetting, stretching and blocking out to dry..Jim

I will have to try that.

Thanks

M- I have no idea what the wool content is on the Cabelas trousers, I will have to look.

Cabelas wool whipcord trousers are indeed 100% wool- maybe I will try to stretch them back out...

Check out the 100% wool items under "menswear": http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/bemidjiwool.php
I've got the 100% wool Voyageurs Jac Coat and the thing is warm and indestructable.

I really like my LLBean wool pants and my Thinsulate lined wool coat from Cabelas, but nothing matches the amazing wear I've gotten from my Filson mackinaw.

Any other thoughts on cleaning wool pants? Other than dry cleaning?

Wash in cold water and hang dry. Some garments need to be laid flat rather than hung.

Woolite and cold water and a gentle machine wash and spin or hand wash.
Hang when resonable(like woolen trousers by the cuffs) or lay flat and block out to dry..Jim
222Rem, Isn't your avatar the woolmark industry symbol?..:)

VERY observant Jim! That's how much I love wool. I almost signed up with the name "wool lover" but knew folks would have way too much fun with that one!

I realized that I was no longer a youngster while watching Grumpy Old Men a few years ago. All I could think about was how cool their clothes, vehicles, houses (including fishing shanties) and general lifestyles were. It was as much a fantasy movie as a comedy for me. My wife just had a worried look on her face......(grin).

I've used Filson whipcords and heavy wool pants and bibs for years, and consider it the best here in the Northeast.I use the whipcords if temps are moderate, but under heavy snow, I find you are wet sooner, and not as warm as with the heavier Filsons. I also bring a pair when I hunt out west, and although it never got cold enough for the heavy ones when I was hunting, I used them while on horseback last week to pack out my elk during a snowstorm. I was warm and dry the whole time.The Filsons have the unique characteristic of allowing you to be comfortable when you are moving at 35 degrees and below, but still stay warm when you stop for awhile.

I also have KOM and Sleeping Indian stuff and so far find the Sleeping Indian superior, although KOM is pretty good;the Sleeping Indian is "one step up" over Filson in warmth,IMO, and works well for me at below zero temps,if I am moving. But last year in Albert at 25-30 below, I desperately wished for something else warmer than wool. I am not as tough as Koutenay!

Getting a set of Sleeping Indian to Canada guarantees overweight baggage charges, and does not cut it for me when stand hunting and temps dip to 25 below zero. Gotta find something else....

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Quality wool clothing, be it light weight Pendleton dress shirts like the older 'Sir Pendleton' hard finished wool or Filson, LL Bean or good mil surplus can hardly be beat for durability, warmth when wet( and insulation even in HOT weather )..

I wore lightweight wool longsleeve shirts & trousers during the summers in the Sonoran desert of Arizona when I lived and hunted there.

The old saying:

"Millions of sheep cannot be wrong with their insulation choice" has alot of truth to it...:)They survive well in some of the hottest and coldest climates on the planet.

I could be an aged spokesman for woolen clothing for dress or work for Pendleton or Filson when I retire..:) Jim

Jackfish, I've been looking at getting one of these coats for over a year. I'm just a little leary as it doesn't seem to be a well-known brand like Filson ( i know that doesn't necessarily mean anything). In terms of comparing the two.....I'm just curious if the single ply 30 oz wool of the Bemidji is as thick and tight of a weave as the single ply Filson Mackinaw crusier?
I think you mentioned earlier you have the 30oz pants too? Are these as good as the Filson Mackinaw pants? I really wish they made the 100% wool pants in green. But, I guess the 85%/15% combo might be just as good.

The 30 oz. 100% wool in the Bemidji Voyageurs Jac Coat is thicker than the 24 oz. material in the Filson Mackinaws, and as far as I can tell the weave is about as tight. The 30 oz. 85/15 pants from Bemidji are comparable to Woolrich Malone pants, yet the Bemidji pants seem to be a bit tighter weave. They used to make the 30 oz. 100% wool pant in other colors than the blaze and perhaps they will again. A call to do some prodding might help. Its too bad they don't do both the 30 oz. 100% wool pants and jac coat in green and/or grey.

And the best thing I've found for washing wool is Atsko Sport Wash. Cold water wash & rinse on gentle cycle and hang or lay flat on a rack to air dry works on all of my wool, even the items that say "Dry Clean Only."

As far as wool year round goes, the Merino wool lightweight shirts (I believe they are 5 oz. with a tight weave) from Australia look wonderful. But at $185 delivered to the US a little rich for my pocketbook. I think there would be a market in the US for such shirts if they were a little more affordable and also for an 11 oz. Merino wool whipcord weave pants.

The Sir Pendleton worsted 100% virgin wool dress shirts work well for me for light weight or layering of wool clothing..

I have about 8 of them, some over 15 years old and they look like new even after many hours-years of wear.I wear them for work under a wool blazer or when hunting or working outside..
Lightweight as a fine linen dress shirt, but better insulation in warm or cold weather.

New they now run about 104.00 retail.Wife gets me a 'new ' one every thrid Christmas..:)

I find them used at the local Goodwill or Value Village stores for less than 10.00...Jim

http://drewsboots.com/images/fullsize/BA034-10563_full.jpg

You'd be surprised what you can find on eBay or Craig's List also IF you are a knowlegeable buyer..Jim

I could too. I've given guys a new pair of merino socks just to try to convert them to the enlightened side. Folks find it hard to believe that I actually wear wool sock in the summertime. They're just ignorant, and a few pair of sock usually fixes that.

A few years ago I my wife attended a conference in Seattle and I went with. I walked the full length of that burg just to visit Filson. It was my first time, and it was like going to Mecca--------I almost got misty-eyed! Anyway, I knew as much or more than the head sales dude working on the floor. I could recite fabric weights, colors, options, etc., for all of their products (including the Tin Cloth stuff). Some Filson customers are a little too pasionate I guess.....

My love for quality wool goods has also lead me to bringing home "bargains" from Mil-Surp stores, Goodwill, and yardsales even though they're not my size! "SOMEONE will be able to wear them," I tell myself. I've also got some hideously colored golf sweaters that I got for almost free at Goodwill but they fit, and are made of lambswool, angora, or alpaca. Colors be damned------I'll only wear them in the woods anyway. Older Pendleton and Filson stuff is a great find too on the used racks. Usually a result of grandkids cleaning out an estate I assume.

I'm one of the weirdos who actually looks forward to the colder fall temps so I can dig out my wool, and wait to walk the dogs in the wintertime until the next snow storm moves in.

222Rem...:)
Know what ya mean about looking forward to cooler fall & winter & hunting just to be able to wear some of the fine woolens I have acquired over the years..
When I lived at 6-700' feet elevation for some years in northern Arizona, wool was my choice always.
Still use it with the SAR teams when we go up Mount Hood or Jefferson in winter to find lost folks..

Pendleton blanket will go on the bed in the next few days..:)
Even if the wife has to kick it off..I block the heat vent and open the window and enjoy the cooler air at nite.

Stopped at the local Goodwill store a bit ago on the way home.

Spent $24.50 .

Came home with a like brand new Harris Tweed ( Scottish wool) wool blazer in my color & perfect fit.50 long.......and two Pendleton Sir Pendleton worsted wool dress shirts, XL long.

About 400.00 of premium wool in perfect condition (used) I will wear for 24.50..I feel like I should awear a mask when I go in there..:)

I wear wool socks ALL year( I wear western boots at work when I'm not in steel toes and I buy the heavier Smartwool otc socks)
Wool keeps the feet drier than cotton and provides great comfort.

I wear mostly wool LS shirts even in summer as usually they crank the AC down in the office when I'm there and so I'm comfortable..

I have a Filson Double Mackinaw coat my oldest son got me for Christmas five years back..Beautiful, well made coat.

I've only NEEDED to wear it here in the Willamette valley twice..:)But have worn it up in the Cascades hunting and looking for yew trees many times..usually unbuttoned..:)

I peeked at e Bay today and there's ALOT of potential bargains in <lightly> used Filson, Pendleton, Woolrich, Codet etc ..

I have no problem buying used items and putting them back in service..and IF necessary, I can sew on a button or stitch up a tear on an otherwise bargain priced garment in good wool.

Don't ask me about the sweaters I have..:) Hardly ever wear them, but used just couldn't pass them up for 5 cents on 50 dollars of what they cost new.
Maybe I'm also a 'woolaholic'..:) Jim

jim in Oregon, how are those shirts against bare skin? Do they have any lining on the collar or cuffs? What would you guess the fabric weight is in them? 6 oz.?

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Jackfish, I can't say what the fabric weight is in oz...

Picture your best hard finished Irish linen white Sunday church shirt and that's about the weight.

On the Sir Pendleton worsted wool shirts, neither the collars nor sleeves are satin lined like one may want or see with a heavier, coarser wool hunting shirt.

I can wear the coarsest wool right next to my skin with no itching-allergies..My wife cannot..:)

The worsted wool Pendleton are fine finished and I cannot imagine anyone feeling any itchi-ness from them..

IF you have any shops that sell Pendleton..go take a look-see-feel and you'll get a better idea of what the fabric weight and feel is like.
They are tops for casual dress..or layering for outdoor work-hunting..and wear like iron if cared for well.

I wear mine for days and simply hang them and let them air before putting them in the closet.
Women still have no problems coming close to me to talk..:)

Dry clean maybe every two months after many days hours of wear.

I'm not a sweat hog..but short of getting them really soiled, maint is minimal and they still look and smell good..:) Jim

I don't care for Woolite because it doesn't rinse very clean, leaving a soap residue on the fibers. The soap residue attracts and holds dirt, making your clothing less efficient. Try using a mild lingerie soap instead. I use "Forever New." It is rinsed out in one rinse cycle. It's a great product. I tossed my whole bottle of woolite after I discovered this stuff.

Wash the wool clothing in the washer, but also use Downy or something similar in the rinse cycle. It actually adds a little water repellency to the wool fibers. (Never figured out why the advertisements showed people using it with towels... )

M

Thanks for the tips. I'll look for some Forever New. I agree 100% with using softner on towels BTW, I like my towels clean, rough, and absorbant.

Nikwax is also a pretty good water resistant treatment for wool outergarments.

Well, I'm going to throw my .02 in this discussion. I'm with the crew that says wool just can't be beat. I've been wearing the KOM woolens for 14 years now and find it hard to beat. I've got 4 different types/weights of underwear, from silks to heavy wool ulfrotte, to cover the various conditions, and find that I can do it all in comfort with this set up. There have only been a handful of days that I can remember where it didn't do the job as well as I'd like. I'll be wearing it tomorrow in 55 degree daytime highs...I've also had it on while on stand in 10 below. For warmer weather bowhunting I don't use it and am still searching for the perfect clothing for that situation. I'm thinking of dropping the cash on some sitka gear for next year, as it looks good and have heard some positive things from pards who use it. I'll wait and see what next year brings to the market. Also have some pards who swear by the RW stuff, but I feel that I've got the bases covered in the temperature range with the KOM. I'm always ready to try out that next best product, however, which keeps my wife grinning as I can out shop her when it comes to hunting togs!!!

Our spouses may have a hard time understanding the need for dozens of firearms, but don't seem to drag their feet too hard when we buy more outdoor clothing do they? I think we've found a loophole for buying some neat stuff we want since they'll dare not ask "why do you need more clothes?"

As a side note, I've got my wife loving wool socks when she's going casual with jeans. The crusade continues......

A few days after my ill-considered post that Brad replied to so eloquently I was getting ready to go out on a sunset watch. It was a little more than misty out, temperatures in the high 30's, low 40's and a pretty good wind out of the north. For whatever reason I reached past the synthetics and got my old Johnson Mills caped jacket off the rack. Spent a couple of hours in a tree stand thinking "Why did I ever get away from this?" Just got off the Filson website after spending damn near $800. Thanks a lot guys.

Jim, I wish our good will store was a well stocked as yours.

Youper, I'm sure what part of the country one lives in dictates what will turn in at the second hand stores..tho maybe some old timers may retire & pass on while retired in Michigan?..:)
I saw decent wool at second hadn stores in eastern North Carolina..I'd bet the wool wasn't bought new by folks living there..but who knows?

I'd think you could find some decent wool secondhand..but maybe the Up folks have enough sense to pass it down or keep it rather than giving it away?? Jim

Youper, like Jim says it depends on what part of the country you are in for some of the stuff, just like garage sales. You don't find many used crab pots in Kansas. I have several thrift stores within reasonable range and drop in once in awhile on several. One of them almost never has anything of outdoor clothing interest to me, several are OK but one of them is almost always a gold mine. This is in a strip from Seattle to the lower Mainland of BC. I decided not to say which store is so loaded with good wool and also other outdoor clothing! Often there is ski and mountaineering/climbing clothing in it, plus ironically, some superb wool dress pants.

A round about way of saying that you have to keep an eye open all year round when shopping used stuff, rather than just go buy retail. Well worth it. I hit a big thrift store yesterday, first one in months, and didn't find a single item of interest to me, though if I was short on wool dress pants for hunting, there was one pair that would do. The best store is so consistently good that I've cogitated some on why that store has so much good stuff and suspect it is local demographics: lots of high end yuppy spenders nearby who dress well in the office and on the slopes.

For the cheap pants, I have stagged them off in the bush with a hunting knife a time or two when they were too long. As I posted previously on this thread, (I think) I now leave some of the pant legs long and put a light bungee cord in the hem/cuff tight enough to stretch tight around my boot top to keep stuff out. The pant needs to be a bit long and loose to do this, so that when you lift a knee high on a steep slope, it doesn't pull the pant hem off of your boot top.

Miss Treated: thank you for the tip on washing wool!

Great topic WOOL
I am a lover of wool from NH and I just have to say that I too almost look forward to cold weather so I can woolup and get out there. From hunting and now to cutting fire wood its a great time. Now my 2 cents on how to stay warm and comfortable.

Number one is the base layer. I start with Minus33 boxers, and a wool tee shirt. These are great and I wear this stuff at least 8-9 months a year.
For fall I then use a mid weight long johns and mid weight top
If it colder than that I move right into the heavy weight (400g/m) top and bottom
Throw in a wool plaid shirt (green and black) and your good to go

The Filson 24 oz bib overall and a Mackinaw is my outer layer. I would rather have several layers than just one heavy layer so even the 24 oz is a bit on the heavy side.

Last year at �20 I did double up with a light weight bottom and a heavy weight bottom.

Welcome to the Campfire!

Always good to hear from another guy from NH. Live Free Or Die in the Granite State!

Jeff

I have a pair of Filson's that are excellent, but sometimes too heavy. I bought two pairs of Swedish Army wool pants at the surplus that were new. They are a little lighter in weight and I prefer them to the Filsons. They have a crease that will not go away, and they are of the highest quality. I think they were $20.00 a pair. Filson's have cargo pockets, Swedes don't.

I'm at 20+ years on my main pair of surplus pants. I doont know what nationality. I use them for hunting and skiing (downhill) so they are not babied! I did just "rebuild" the crotch on them though.

Easily the best $20 I've ever spent on clothing.

I guess I should try and figure out what country made these and see if I can find another pair. They are high-quality felted wool, cargo pockets, with cotton liner everywhere they touch skin. My only beef is the single layer of fabric on the butt. For both skiing and hunting purposes I've wished for "more" there, and even considered paying my seamstress to modify them...

There are four categories of outdoor wear that are indisputably highly functional. One is the advanced polypro stuff- like Capilene. Another is fleece; cavemen would've given their left nut for the simple, effective, cheap poly fleece we have now. Another is the breathable, almost-waterproof shell (note "almost"!)... finally there's good ol' wool.

Pretty impressive that sheep fur can hang with the best modern technology has to offer!

a question for you learned shoppers:

where does one find surpluss wool pants in xl size?

thanks

It is getting very difficult to find used military wool. Most countries have moved to high tech fibers. I currently use Swedish wool pant, but my all time favorite was the German wool. I can't find them anywhere.

I outgrew the German stuff. Never could wear it out.

Johnson Woolen Mills of Vermont - the best!

Sportsman's Guide had some E. German wool a few months a go.