As a new member to the forum, I live up in Alberta and do alot of wilderness camping with my boys very close to the rockies.
I always carry my reliable 870 12ga. pump with magnum slugs and 00buck, and always wondered exactly where to place the slug with a charging grizz within 25-50 yds. Anyone experienced this rare confrontation, or know of anyone who lived to tell?
With the panic of a racing heart and shakey hands, compounded with the grizz bouncing up and down, any thoughts on the best placement to disable Mr. Grizz within a 2-4 second window, upper chest, shoulder or square in the middle head area?

aceman.

I have zero experiance with a charging griz but I can tell you one thing, he's probably going to get it in the noggin.
That way if I did miss I might still hit the frontal chest region.

Zero griz in florida, but remember the old mafia slogan.."two in the head, then he's dead"

Id be aiming for an area from the tip of the nose at the upper edge down to the upper chest where the neck starts and useing THESE SLUGS

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00129PB127RS

at 20 yards the 1oz weight and 70 cal dia. at the typical velocity from a shotgun will get any bears attention, and once I started shooting Id sure keep punching holes looking to destroy the viotals and CNS and neck

Oh yeah! and he wouldnt just get one shot either..........I will keep shooting until he drops.

340
"Id be aiming for an area from the tip of the nose at the upper edge down to the upper chest where the neck starts..."

Do that and you will be Treadwelled. Bears are far closer to the ground than most think. A normal male human will stand far taller and a shot missing the nose, or going through it will hit dirt. On a charging bear you see the top of the head and neck in front and shoulders way beyond... They have long necks.
art

aceman-for me it would be all about CNS and which CNS spot was aquired first.

I personally not a hugo believer in shooting one in the chest in the hope that it'll either put them down and or turn them. 4 me and my hide I want one in the brain pan, just under the chin and or in the spine.

I've never had to face off with a griz did have a show down with a blackie that my client had wounded. He came at me from 9', one shot just under the chin as he was coming very fast did the job (25/06 and a 100 grn coreloct).

Lastly I'll end with these couple of things. First off I would only shoot as a last ditch my butt is about toast kind of situation.

And, a fella I know who trains grizz's for movies and such has timed one of his 600 lb capitive bruins (IE not as wired and in shape as a wild one). In a timed 50 yd event the griz came in with times of 2.9 seconds to 4.5 seconds....

Just some things to think about. Oh and one last thing, this is just my way but if I was carrying a BB gun (what I call a shotgun) it would have the bestest and toughest slugs and I'd leave the birdshot for the birds.

Dober

Thats right Mark, and if I remember correctly a griz can outrun a thoroughbred race horse in a short sprint......thas fast!

Ya but how fast can they run when they're slipping on the manure running down my leg as I hot foot it away?

I came face to face with about 9 grizzly bears this last fall in the NWT, with the closest being 20 feet. Luckily they all high tailed it the other direction. Hopefully I never have to drop a charging grizz, but if I do, I'll be aiming right between the eyes. If I miss, I'll still hit something important

You shoot a bear at 50 yards and tell the warden so, I think you won't be happy about what he tells you...

L

Be able to shoot from the hip and pray your not handicapped by a scope at that moment.

Having shot charging bears with 3x and 4x scopes and the last Kodiak bear I killed was at 24 yards with a 3.5-10x set at 6x... Scope handicaps are not something I sweat...

That 24 yard Kodiak was in tight alders, too... Did not feel the need to shoot from the hip, either...

Sitka deer, where would you aim at a charging bear? I have never had the experience.

In my personal experience of using ordinary 1oz slugs and buckshot in law enforcement and generally being unimpressed with their performance on barriers I would go with something else.

A couple that jump to mind are the partitions sabot slugs, the Brenneke KO or the Barnes slugs.

Federal/Barnes
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=600665

Brenneke KO
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=540197

Winchester Partition
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=150399

GreyHunter
Dead center of mass is all you can really hope for. You would be looking down on the bear's head and it will be coming straight on. When the neck breaks the show is over. The head is harder to hit because lead is hard to calculate on an incominng target. Missing the neck puts the bullet down into important stuff that will probably kill the bear eventually...

Do not mean to imply the Kodiak bear I shot at 24 yards was charging... It was anything but charging. It is the bear Rick Bin was backing me up on and Muley Stalker was taping.
art

Shot placement for a charging Griz should be as follows: Make a sweeping motion 10 degrees of either side of the charging bear until all fuel is spent. Then drop your flame thrower and run like hell!

Hemi

I'll just add that depending on the situation there may be no time to aim for a CNS shot when a bear emerges going full blast from thick cover 15yrds away. More like point, look over the scope and pull the trigger! At least thats how it was during a wounded black bear charge I experienced with a friend about 6yrs ago. And both of us missed any CNS areas, luckily the big bear turned after the second close-up shot but still had plenty pep to do the tasmanian devil gig in the nearby brush. If we would have been facing a tougher, meaner grizzly we would have been toast!

And yes, the bear's head was down as Art describes, a big, fast approaching chocolate blurr!

MtnHtr

I realize this is a really different charge but perhaps a story of interest;

Partner and I were on a long river trip and had stopped for the day after catching a few grayling for dinner....after dinner we poured a good McClelland's Islay and sat on the beach enjoying the evening......I saw something enter the water across the river [150 yards] and start swimming toward us.....binos revealed it to be a medium grizzly....I got the 12 ga and slugs and sat down for another sip.....when closer, we stood up and hollered at the bear to make ourselves obvious....he never wavered as he swam toward us....before he could touch bottom, I put a slug through his head at about 20 feet.....and partner and I lived happily ever after.

Vern
You expect us to believe that??? Through his head??? EVERYONE knows all projectiles will bounce off a bear's noggin! Especially a slug! Sheesh!

Yeah- what Art said. Sheesh!

(Good call!).

Years ago a good friend was building a cabin out in the tall weeds, with his wife, daughters, and a couple nephews living in various tents around the site. As one nephew, Steve, told me, he woke up in the wee hours of the morning to see (by carefully peeking - for cause - out the tent flap) his uncle herding a large black out of camp at gun point. Right past Steve's tent flap - about 6 feet out, Uncle talking to the bear the whole time. Having shot a small black bear several days before for camp meat, and jokingly planting the stiffened carcass about 6 inches outside Steve's tent flap before calling Steve awake) Uncle really didn't want to pot another, but at the edge of the clearing the bear started to turn around on him and that's all she wrote.

Uncle came stomping back past Steve's tent muttering,,,,," I ain't in no goddam mood to "ef" with no goddam bear in the middle of the goddam night!"

Bears are like people- they seem to all have different characters. One thing for sure the big grizzlies can run down a deer in less than a 100 yards. Deer can out pace horses and how fast can horses go at full gallop. Probably near 40 mile an hour or 19.5 yards in one second. Your reaction time would consume about 1-2 seconds, followed by turning,shouldering, finding your moving target, and then shooting. I beg to differ with your comment Sitka-no disrespect intended. If that grizz really wanted your ass- you wouldn't be telling the story about shooting a bear at 24 yards. He didn't know you were there or he was in a friendly mood.

Art,
Yup...plumb through the skull with an old Foster slug mind you...

Another incident at fish camp....I looked up from cooking dinner to see the butt of a 200 pound black bear above the gunwale of my freight canoe....he was rummaging for grub/fish.....my partner grabbed the 12 ga with Fosters and waited until the bear stood up in the bow and shot.....another friend says: "you missed as I saw the slug skip off the water"......about then we heard the last bawl of an expiring bear 20 feet from the canoe.....the slug had gone plumb through the rib cage and lungs and skipped across the lake for a half mile.....

The ribs of that bear were very similar in size to pork ribs from a rack of ribs at the local dining establishment....certainly not armor plated!

378,

I don't think he led us to believe that it was a real charge.

I've seen a few grizzlies at full tilt, across broken ground, and all I can say is I'm sure glad they were heading away.

My defence would be to shoot for center of mass. If the first shot is not fatal, the best you could hope for, is to slow the bear up enough for a follow up shot(s).

RO

378
If I ever slow my reaction time to 1-2 seconds BEFORE turning and shouldering my rifle, please just pull the oxygen tube, okay? Having been around bears quite a bit I fail to see any mysticism in their physical abilities. They are fast, but they cannot go beyond the bounds of physics...
art

Vern
I have posted here quite a while ago about a Kodiak bear I shot that required follow-up shooting in the alders... The foster style slugs were very impressive in a lot of respects. One broke the collar bone and bounced down along the ribs to the last attached rib and hung a hard right. It plowed through the liver and left.

The second shaved a little hair atop the head, hit just off-center in the neck and exited the throat. (An 8 1/2' Kodiak bear, let anyone that believes in shooting them under the chin do that geometry.) And I cannot remember exactly what the third did... But the bear died.
art

I have actually been charged by a grizzly and killed it.I was grizzly hunting when the bear appeared about 100 yards off as we climbed a slide to get to a good vantage point.It stood on it's hind legs and tried to smell us before returning to all fours.Then it began walking towards us on a sheep trail.I was deciding if this bear was big enough to kill,when the bear began to trot,then changed to a flat out charge towards us.At 40 yards,I fired and the bullet struck the base of the neck.The bear stopped in it's tracks and turned,so I broke both front shoulders with a second shot.It rolled a couple of hundred yards into a pile of brush.We rolled it down to the river bank and skinned it,finding the first bullet in the rear hip.I was using a 338x8mm remmag with a Jensen j26 bullet.The bear weighed around 400lbs and squared 6'8".

Vern and Sitka,
Well I guess you guys have had much better luck with the foster slugs, I had one deflect of the rear window of a Buick and saw a second one fail to make it thorugh a car door on the same incident. I have also seen 00buck go through the rear window of a Jeep Cherokee and fail to go through a headrest. I think they are great on softer targets and I am somewhat suprised with the excellent results you have observed. I guess as long as the bear isnt charging in a Buick your just fine.

Stubby
At 40 yards that was not even close to a charge. I have had many bears come a LOT closer than that before breaking off "charges." Last October I had a bear running "at me" from less than half that distance. It was obvious what the bear was doing and charging was not on its agenda. Your bear fantasies aside, they are still not magic.
art

I'm not convinced that bears are all that fast....I've watched barren ground grizzlies repeatedly try to catch caribou calves that are a few days old...maybe a week....but without a close ambush, the calves repeatedly outran the bear.....of course that is open tundra.....the element of surprise is essential for a bear to catch most adult members of the deer family IMO.

And for shotguns, I would prefer the Brenneke or some hardened slug for bears but I had a supplier of free 12 ga slugs at the time.....

Vern - I was once watching through binocs, a large brown bear flipping rocks on a hillside way above us - presumably for voles or pikas. Suddenly she turned and covered about 200 later paced yards in nothing flat- maybe 8 seconds, only to re-emerge a bit later with her new cubs from a brush thicket. I mean, she was stretched out and MOVING! I'd guess her at 9 foot or so. The rocks proved out to be an estimated 200 to 300 lbs, mostly... It impressed me.....

I've had the luck never to face a real charge, but I'm with Art. I'm shooting for center of mass, holding for forehead, center bottom of eyes (he's incoming, plus reaction time, plus velocity = probably good stuff)) And shooting a lot!, in the time allowed! With whatever I've got on hand at the time.

I'd really prefer I never...

Vern,
You've gotta remember though, that those caribou can REALLY move over the rocky, spongy tundra, far better than most anything else alive. Those huge hooves (which are almost as big as those of a moose) just allow them to float over top of the hummocks. I would like to see a caribou outrun a grizz over flat, solid ground. I think the tables would turn.

Well, I have seen a grizzly trying to catch caribou migrating through a pass with great flat surfaces and all the bear got was excercise... And lots of it.

I guess all that really matters is that they can sure as hell catch me.....

Well, it just depends on how far the grizz has got to run to catch up to the 'bou. Caribou are marathon runners, grizzly bears are sprinters.


And yup, Vern's got it right. In the end, all that matters is that without question, they can catch any human alive in short order.

It seems pretty clear and obvious that the third slug disintegrated as it bounced off the bear's skull.

Shoot it in the mouth- At least it can't eat you after it's killed you.

Talk to anyone who has ran grizzlies with hounds, then get back to us. Bears have incredible endurance.

RO

<------ have run black bears with hounds, (hounds also being marathoner's) and can say that they will run a very long time.

Have also watched grizzlies "sprint" up slide chutes for thousands of yards, without slowing down for a break.

I'm not talking about the 100 yard dash here. I'm not saying that they run out of steam after a couple hundred yards, but simply that compared to Caribou, grizzly are not long-distance athletes.

First, Take a deep, slow breath and make sure your weapon is ready.Don't run..or move much.

IF the bear is REALLY intent on mauling-killing you and it's not just a bluff charge, wait until it's within 15 yards...ESP with a 12 gauge..

Kneeling position is best as it's stable position...and more inline with the bear's chest and head.You'll either die or kill the bear..You'll have time at 12 yards to rack the pumpgun and shoot again once after the initial shot to the face.Jim

You were not there and have no way of knowing if the charge was real or a bluff.Regardless of his intentions,he was running flat out and could have been on us in a few seconds if I had not fired.With nowhere to go,and a grizzly tag in my pocket,I made the decision to fire,and am reporting the results since they are relevant to the thread.

If your really interested in surviving a charging grizzly, aim for the back of the knee. From what I hear, its extremely painful...and the amount of noise your hunting partner makes after being shot should destract the bear long enough for you to retreat to a safe shooting distance.

No, you won't. If that bear is "really intent on mauling-killing you" at 12 yards you will not have enough time to shoot, shuck a second round, and shoot again. If that bear is coming hard and you wait till 12 yards to shoot, even if you kill him DR-F-T his momentum could very well run you down. Assuming of course that in your scenario he is running at you full tilt. Bears hit full tilt in about 3 feet. And 12 yards is about two bounds for a big grizz.


After reading this entire thread, and the other similiar thread, I've come to the conclusion that not very many people have any concept of how fast bears are. How quickly they hit top speed when they are motivated.

If a bear is coming for you, a motivated bear, intent on killing you, and you were not aware of him prior to him being inside of 25 yards, or if you weren't on a hair trigger, cocked and unlocked with that weapon up, the next thing you would know was that you were being shat out the south end of a north bound bear.

All this talk of "where do I aim" is fine and dandy, when you are behind a keyboard. In a true to life situation even if you know that bear is there, and you are becoming aware of his intentions to you prior to him coming for you, the absolute best the average joe is going to be able to pull off is a center-of-mass shot at a brown blur.

An experienced guy, might have a bit of a better chance if he reads the situation properly and has a killing intent on that bear before he gets determined...

Nice, I'll have to keep that one in mind! Especially since I am slower than most of my hunting partners.

Carl

aceman,

First things first...aim for cantre of mass with your magnum slugs. Try to hit big bone with your first shot. This will slow the bear down/knock it down, and hopefully give you time for follow up shots.
Second, if you are going to load buckshot, find some 000 buckshot. There are fewer of them in the shell, but they are bigger and will penetrate better, if the bear gets that close, and you are down to your last shot.
Third, try ot find out whether or not your local gunclub brings in anyone to do firearms qualifications or bear training. We have a fellow in BC (cannot remember his name at this particular moment) taht does both types of training. He does timed training with shotguns at close range, including reloading and firing, where you have to make so many of your shots on target at various ranges to qualify. He also does a charging bear simulation, where the target is moving towards you, and you have to hit it in the kill zone three times to qualify. Not only does this increase your familiarity with your firearm, it teaches you how to remain calm under pressure of time and shot placement. Not quite the same as a charging bear...but a good place to practice the required skills to handle your firearm under pressure. He will also do similar training with centerfire rifles.

Seems like KodiakHntr is one of the few that know what a big grizzly in his prime can do. I'm not talking about a two year old that just got off mommie's tit and clumsily chases new born calves because he's half starved and doesn't know how to kill.
I still say that if a large Grizz in his prime is intent on getting you, you had better hope there's lots of distance between you and him and no alders and trees in the way. I still say a scope is a handicap in that scenario. I've never shot at a charging grizz but have shot a couple of charging blacks. Have witnessed a deer get run down by a grizz and it was awesome to see. The bear knocked it down and immediately tore out a piece of that deer the size of a 10 pound roast. It looked like it tour the whole neck out while holding it down with it's front legs. I've spent many years working remotely and have seen many things that would really surprise you about grizzlies. They even kill and eat each other, which isn't common with blacks.

Similiarly used for Polar bears in the Arctic. A length of 3/4 inch pipe about 1.5 ft long. Carry in back pocket-"When asked what that is for" the answer is bear protection. "How is a pipe bear protection" Reply a blow to the back of the your knee while I make my escape.

________________
Kodiakhunter, I was replying to the original poster, aceman, who said he'd have an 870 12 gauge..:)Jim

"As a new member to the forum, I live up in Alberta and do alot of wilderness camping with my boys very close to the rockies.
I always carry my reliable 870 12ga. pump with magnum slugs and 00buck, and always wondered exactly where to place the slug with a charging grizz within 25-50 yds."
______________________________________________

A 12 gauge won't be worth a damn at much past 12 yards..and unlike some, I can work a good pump pretty fast close in...Agreed not much time but I could get three off in less than 2 seconds..

Would I survive a determined big bear's charge at 12 yards with a 12 gauge??
Who knows..:) but I'd either live or die trying..as will most who find themselves on the receiving end of a close charge by powerful dangerous game..:) Jim

If you "need" to hit a charging bear, it's better to hit than miss. If missing is possible, I'd rather miss in front of rather than over a bear. "Spraying" a bear with debris seems, IME, to be a lot more effective than just making noise at them.

The following vid shows several things which seem to be true about bears from what I've seen:

-they are often easy to "drop"

-a "dumped" bear will often recover very quickly

-they move real well when they are motivated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc

BTW, 170 grain RN Corelokts (30-30) penetrate better than 2 3/4" standard Foster type 12 gauge slugs.

378
This one time at bear camp...

I suppose it is better to keep the fantasies than to believe they are all just looking to be understood... But I have watched a lot of bears for a long time...
art

I have had more than a couple uncomfortable experiences with Grizzlies and browns but fortunately have not had to kill one as of yet in self defense. IMO grizzies ar very fast, I have watched a grizzly take down a bull caribou twice and attribute the kills to strategy more than speed though speed definately helped. I was on the north slope hunting Caribou back in like 1996. We were along the Kuparik river, I awoke to a mountain house rumbling volcano in my stomach and had to get out of my bag and take care of business badly. I walked as far as my stomach would allow from camp (I was hurting bad) and squatted down in some brush to release the demons inside me, as I was taking care of much needed business my eyes started to survey the landscape to see if anything was out and about (its huge country). As I looked around , keep in mind, my trous were around my ankles no weapon nearby, I suddenly caught movement out of the corner of my eye and I quickly shifted my eyes to the movement. It was a mediumish Caribou Bull running at full tilt down the edge of the Kuparik in the brush and as he blasted past me at about 25 yards, I caught a second movement out of the corner of my eye and when I looked I about double chit myself! It was a mediumish sized griz also running at full tilt pursuing this Caribou. As that griz barreled past me at the same 25ish yards I coulda sat right in my own chit to avoid being spotted. All I kept thinking was "Please dont see me , Please dont see me!" I had no weapon and my pards were sleeping like babies no more than 40 yards away That [bleep] ran past me and never even saw me, having his full focus of attention on the caribou in front of him. I would have been [bleep] had he seen me and thought [bleep] chasing this one I'll eat the one that aint running, and this bear was in full predator mode. To watch how fast that grizzly covered ground from so close away was plain [bleep] amazing! He ended up getting the bull at the top of the hill as the bull went right around the rocks and the bear went left and they ran right into each other. I awoke my buds in rapid fashion once I was done chitting myself literally. I now never leave camp to take care of business without a weapon as I have twice been caught off guard by a griz while taking a chit and it aint no fun!

I'll also add that after having bow hunted grizzlies a bunch and having stalked probably 20-30 grizzlies up close and personal with a bow or the camera that Arts statements above abut 40 yards not being charging distance , is correct. "Almost" every grizzly that we get busted by while closing the distance to bow range will want to get a better birds eye view or smell of you before checking out. Especially where we are always trying to defeat their ability of winding us and approaching them from down wind. It seems to me that many will get as close as 20 yards or closer and then circle to check your smell before hauling azz. Though having been bluff charged more than once they have all either hauled azz or remained content on bluffing you to stay back if they felt like holding their ground. But I am not gonna lie and say that when they start coming right towards you to check you out that chit dont get a little giddy in your head. Your thinking....he's gonna circle us, he's gonna circle us.We have video of one bear that bluff charged my buddy twice while rooting something good, but never came for real. My pard held at full draw for several minutes on that bear and he finally [bleep] up and turned broadside, and after the arrow hit he didn't come our way , he went the opoosite way in a hurry. He ran for about 150 yards before dieing on a gravel bar just off the closest braid of the river. So keep in mind that a bear that comes inside 40 yards is most likely just checking you out to decide whether to run from you or eat you and you have to pay close attention to body language cuz I am always thinking, this chit can go real good or real bad right now!

I think the key is to shoot an autoloader and have a bayonette mounted on it. Kneel, aim for center mass and keep shooting. Once he's too close to shoot then make use of the bayonette. Grenades would work but the fuses are too long.







OK, so I'm mostly kidding but it's no worse internet advice than some of the other stuff in the thread...:)

Steely Eyes..:)
IF This was MY original post..I'd have had a REM 1100..or maybe a CZ in .375 H&H..:)...AND a good knife ..:)

Historically, there have been more than a few grizzlies kilt with good knives in the hands of strong & desperate men I'm told..and a few men who have survived serious grizzly attacks also.
The rest who encountered a sow w/cubs were lost to the historical archives..:(..

A good knife( bayonet) would not be my personal 1st choice but ANY weapon is better than none I suppose..:) Jim

Im busting him between the eyes if i can. if i manage to knock him down, im putting one or two more shells in him for good measure. dont want a wounded bear getting back up to finish the job!

AlaskaCub

I've never yet had the opportunity to hunt the big browns or grizzly with my bows..tho I know they will work and I have the patience and will for it.

I've killed alot of 400# + black bears, lions and elk & deer and pigs among assoterted smaller game in near 50 years of bow and rifle hunting.
Have a bit of close in combat experience too.
Not afraid of dying well for a decent reason.

When you get my age you are more concerned about still being alive with no damned good reason..Jim

Trust me , I know what you mean. As I get older it seems that my mind tends to think too much about stuff that I never used to even consider. [bleep] me up from time to time honestly, as I mostly end up thinking about my boy and the phone call my wife may or may not end up getting from some stranger. But hell, thats hunting in Alaska pretty much regardless of species targeted. My gut check alarm was going off like crazy last year when me and my pard landed on a brown bear infested lake on Kodiak completely on a dice roll that we could hike and find goats. Only problem was we were surrounded by brown bear that we could literally see from the air. Man I was doing some serious gut checks and weighing pros and cons and we ended up squashing the plan on a hunch. Only a few hours later I was face to face with a hungry brown on a dead run in my direction after a deer I just shot, and closing in on 60 yards with my crosshairs all over his head. Its Alaska jim, chit happens, and often when you least expect it. I can tell you one thing, it constantly reminds you that your alive!....grin. I wont trade that for nothin!


Oh and I leave May 16th for my annual griz hunt, hope to have some pics for you when I get back!

Now that's funny.

I got a pard that was surrounded, surrounded I tell ya, by eight brownies...and only 10 months ago.

I've never been to a bear camp, most times we see bears while elk hunting or moose hunting. Like I said have seen Grizz but never charged by them. But if people get charged by Grizz-It would probably be more akin to a nightmare rather than a fantasy.
Estimated population in BC of Grizz is about 14,000 and there's probably 10 times that in Blacks, so you have more chances of interacting with blacks. Bears aren't unique to Alaska. 100's of bear attacks occur yearly in Alberta and British Columbia, probably more than in Alaska. Yellowstone park probably would be more dangerous for Bear attacks then all of Alaska since they don't fear men there.

Being a moderator we would think that you would encourage discussion rather than snubbing people and driving them away.

"Be able to shoot from the hip and pray your not handicapped by a scope at that moment."

"Your reaction time would consume about 1-2 seconds, followed by turning,shouldering, finding your moving target, and then shooting. I beg to differ with your comment Sitka-no disrespect intended. If that grizz really wanted your ass- you wouldn't be telling the story about shooting a bear at 24 yards."

"Shoot it in the mouth- At least it can't eat you after it's killed you."

"I'm not talking about a two year old that just got off mommie's tit and clumsily chases new born calves because he's half starved and doesn't know how to kill. I still say a scope is a handicap in that scenario. I've never shot at a charging grizz but have shot a couple of charging blacks."

"Bears aren't unique to Alaska. 100's of bear attacks occur yearly in Alberta and British Columbia, probably more than in Alaska."

378
I am sorry if you think I am snubbing you, but what you are posting does not sound like anything in the real world. To suggest it takes 1-2 seconds to START moving during a charge, yet a bear gets to accelerate to 40MPH in half the time? Yes, I am dismissing that because factually it is very wrong.

Bears and humans are flesh and blood wired with the same "hardware" but perhaps different "software".

Bear populations in a province mean nothing... How many bears do you see in the course of a week or year? the bear I shot at 24 yards was one of over 20 unique bear we saw repeatedly over the course of a week. We saw 13 unique bears in a single day. I have seen well over 50 unique bears in a single day, repeatedly. This fall I saw tremendous numbers of bears during the smelt spawn... I believe DennisinAZ was there. I forget the exact numbers, but over a dozen bears on one small beach... thirty bears or so in one day. A number of folks here at 24hour have shot bears with me and more have been there when I shot bears. I have the luxury of not guessing about what I am posting.

Bears are not unique to AK, but the population densities would seem to be. Can you cite a source for your statement there are 100s of bear attacks every year in AB and BC? According to Herrero, there are only about 30 black bear attacks in North America each year and he was only able to document 279 grizzly attacks in all of NA from 1872 to 1980... and only 111 of those resulted in human injuries. There are far more AK attacks according to him, also.

To suggest Yellowstone is the only place bears ignore humans is very wrong, also.

Your comments on scopes do not mesh with my experiences and show an extreme misunderstanding of how things work. While too-big scopes could cause problems up close there are two questions one needs to ask; "Why pack a Hubble on a bear hunt when shooting will be close and do you think a sights of any kind are needed at staplegun range?"

And what difference does a scope or irons make when you advocate shooting from the hip? That is about the most ridiculous non sequitor I can imagine. Shooting from the hip screams Fantasy to me, sorry.

By far the most dangerous bear is the two-year-old just kicked out by Momma. They are not slower, nor clumsier than an adult and they know how to kill stuff. As a new loner they have to learn a few different tricks... but bears eat a lot less meat than most realize. And a lot less big game...

I apologize if you take the above as a snub, but little of what you posted fits in with the bears I have watched and hunted for so many years.
art

Ok point taken-But a last desperate shot taken from the hip before impact is better than none at all- correct?
Shooting in the mouth is a joke!!!
Your obvious vast experience with bears in bear country is not in question, I speak to the new hunters that pop into this forum.
I'm not speaking about only me with the snubbing comment.
I have guided for many years until hip problem-and noted the reaction time of most hunters. Even when a legal animal is pointed out to them, it takes them several seconds to figure out what it is-this is speaking about the average fella. I've had to tell people over and over take the shot, before it moves off. Most hunters would freeze if charged and would probably do nothing or by the time they would react it would be to late.
The caliber of hunters (yourself included)that you take out would qualify as experts not novices. Apples and oranges.
Have a good day Art.
Generally speaking I can't see an average guy reacting any faster than I quoted in my comments.

+1

I have never shot a griz but 600 and 700 lb black bear do pucker the anal shyncter when charging. They cover a lot of ground even when wounded. Incidently that is the only kind that have charged me. I used to work for an outfitter who had me go finish off wounded bears his clients had wounded.

When the bear charges his head is down and he is making some very fast yardage. The first one I shot at the top of its head and took out the spine a foot behind aim point. He went down but still had use of front paws and was raking the blueberry bushes when my second shot ruined a very nice skull mount.

I have to admit there was a fair shake going on at that point. I started using a bigger gun and paying a whole lot better attention. My bother and I have a name for bear spray....seasoning. Make lots of noise and you will probably never see the bears.

Randy