I've been seeing this a lot lately. For those of you not in the know, DRT = Dead Right There. Maybe some people are using the term to mean one shot and the critter didn't go very far. However, to me, it means the animal dropped in its tracks. To accomplish a true DRT one either needs to do a head shot, a spine shot, or, a shoulder shot. I'm not saying that animals have never dropped on the spot from a heart shot or a lung shot; but, I've never seen it. I've seen where they haven't traveled very far; but, then we're possibly talking a subjective interpretation of the term DRT.

My question is, why is this desirable to some of you on non-dangerous game? Don't get me wrong, I'm not condemning anybody's choice and am not claiming it is in any way unethical. I'm also not claiming that my desire to attain a heart shot or a double lung shot is in any way superior. I do however believe (my opinion) that a heart shot or a double lung shot to be more desirable.

First, a spine or head shot is much more difficult with less room for error. Second, a shoulder shot destroys an awful lot of meat unnecessarily so. In over 35 years of shooting game animals I've only had two "DRT" shots and both were what I consider bad shots or at least significant misses of my aim point. Both occured while I was aiming for the heart or lungs. Both resulted in loss of meat that I regretted.

I'm not a total idiot (my wife may disagree). I can envision scenarios where a DRT shot would be desirable; but, some people "appear" to believe/assert it to be the desired means of obtaining their quarry regularly. Please enlighten me.

Thomas

For others it's the inability to track, laziness because it's shot closer to a road, Cool Factor, Big Ego, Youtube generation, Magnumitis, instant gratification and reward given small penile size...

Oh, then there's the slightly practical factor of not having to do any tracking, not having the game run off the property, fall off a cliff or get tangled in the high-fence

Next question!

Obviously you've never hunted in the east where any animal shot on public property that's not DRT will have someone elses tag on it before you get to it.

I've taken 35+ whitetails. 75% never went more than a few feet, and the majority of those (probably around 14 animals) never left the tracks they were standing in. The only time I've hit one in the spine was when I muffed the shot.

Besides, tracking out animals wastes time better spent on dragging them out of the woods.

Never hunted on public that bad. Do in E Texas, but I get away from the crowds and have never seen another hunter in the haunts I frequent.

I don't do DRT except cull hunts that are meat only, and those are all head shots generally. If I have the right situation. Makes for a nice deer to clean.

Past that its lungs. Let em run and bleed out.

I think the big thing now is all the videos showing them so folks think thats how it has to be.

And I've hunted in some thick S Texas brush, of course you have to trail a bit, but I've stated before, I love the puzzle of after the shot. Its part of the hunt to me. Maybe because I started mostly as a bowhunter.

Most people can't track these days anyway. Maybe a big blood trail but given a trail where doubles over itself a few times and not much blood if any, where you are following tracks, scuff marks and so on. Its taken us the full part of the rest of the day to find a deer now and then, the satisfaction level at the end of the day is so much more than a bang flop.

Jeff

Dude!! I've never had any animal that travelled over 85yards after being shot right. I've never ever heard of a deer or any other animal travelling more than 150 yards after being shot right. If you're within 150yards of another hunter, you're not hunting far enough in the eastern bush! Get away from the crowds of pumkin heads

There are 1 million Deer hunters in Pa. Rather crowded IMHO

I don't know what you mean by "right" but I have had several run from 100-150 yds with a double lung shot. There would be enough blood that a blind man could track them. miles

One million, most of whom are generally lazy: I read an article that said that most of them hunt within 1.5 miles of a road on public land. If you get access to private land or go further than 1.5 miles in the bush, I bet you'd hardly see a soul- or at least be more than 150 yards from another hunter!!

Yes, and at 100-150 yards with that kind of trail, or even just drops of blood, you'd find your deer. If you're hunting the way I described, you shouldn't have to worry about another hunter following your blood trail and claiming your deer- heck, if you're that close to other hunters it's got to be downright dangerous!

Dakotan,

I'm surprised that you have not seen DRT's; I get them fairly routinely. Though our definition of DRT might differ. If the animal falls down and dies, that's a DRT in my book... even if it flops around a little or whatever.

I've seen them from my 30-06 on both deer I killed with it, a couple with my 7-08, several with .358, none of which were central nervous system hits.

Of course, I use "real" deer bullets... not those all-copper thingies <big grin! Put down the sharp knives!>

Where I hunt, deer anyway, DRT is highly desirable. It's not that another hunter will tag your buck, that's not really heard of much in Oregon, it's that we are hunting blacktails in a temperate rain forest, it's often raining, and if they go 100 yards, they've gone a LONG ways if you are trying to track blood, in the rain... BTDT, and it's a sick feeling.

I won't shoot shoulders on purpose. It's not necessary if you choose a proper deer bullet, and it's wasteful in my opinion.

Sometimes the dang things just run. Brooksrange, I'd say this one was hit "right" and he went about 200 yards! Go figure.

Isn't that the same bullet hole that was on the coyote from the thread on Accubond failures?

Go figure is right! 200 yards is 600 feet. If a deer consistently jumps 15 feet per second (an average) that means that it lives for over 40 seconds with two holes in it's lungs and/or heart and keeps on jumping at that pace. Incredible. Maybe you should shoot them with Accubombs in the lungs or TSXs in the shoulders

It beats DOW.

DOW: Dead On Water...yes that's really bad:



Or DOW: Dead On Washroom:


Or DOW: Dead On Wheel:

Not really sure I want to hear the story about the deer in the shower...grin

Dober

I added the last photo for good measure...the result looks tragic for deer and driver...

I was thinking Dead Over Where?

So who fired the first generation Ballistic Tip in the car?

Ahhh, you mean the first, second and third generation Accubombs, don't you?

Hey guys, don't get me wrong. I do see situations where it would be desirable: moose on the edge of a lake or the alders, mountain goat/big horn sheep near a cliff, gian whitetail/mule deer next to property line/fence, etc. Hell, a DRT from a heart shot or lung shot is clearly preferable to a tracking job. But, to listen to some people talk, read what they post or watch them on T.V. there appears to be a lot of desire for shoulder shot to attain a DRT rather than heart shot or lung shot that may entail some trailing. That's all I'm talking about. And we're seeing a lot more of it. I'm not being judgmental I'm only inquiring as I would prefer a short tracking job with more meat recovery than otherwise. As for you who hunt in the east where your competition entails "hunters" in track shoes and starting blocks with a knife clenched in their teeth, you have both my sympathy and understanding.

JeffO, I didn't say I've never seen any DRTs. Heck, broadening the term to include dropping within a specific distance of impact I've probably seen several. If I'm honest with myself and think back I could probably come up with several more instances I've witnessed than I am able to disclose/remember at this time.

It just seems to me that in the past couple of years the shoulder shot on non-dangerous game has become more in vogue. Once again, I'm not judging, just inquiring. Good input so far guys.

DpmRT is OK with me, but on the lease it's pretty doggone thick in some spots. I'm not a real experienced tracker, but do you understand what I mean when I say I'm not anxious to become one either?

Sometimes they go 1/4 mile. Sometimes they drop. Head shots are always two feet straight down. Where I hunt a deer that makes it into a swamp 100 yards can be tough to find. With a still target 100 feet or less, I will head shoot them. Beyond that get's into "depends" territory. Beyond 100 yards I usually put one low just behind the leg and take out the heart and lungs. Normal response to that is a few seconds before they are done. Might run 50 yards might drop right there. for me, DRT = not more than 20 feet of travel since a jump can take most of that.

Id say I am sbout 85% double lungers, a few that are shot from some situation where angle and timing don't allow very precise placement(like benoint style hunting) and a few that I shoulder shoot for a DRT.

I choose the behind the shoulder shot because it doesn't muss much meat, kills surely and reasonably quickly and has a good margin of error.

On the animals I try to DRT, some are shot on public land in the NY's southern tier and if a shot deer runs past another hunter you could loose it (hasn't happened to me, but its possible). or I am hunting next to a property line or in a heavy rain. As for DRT shots, I use the shoulder shot for its margin of error.

I have nothing against folks who like to DRT everything. I just see no reason for me to spend a little meat to get it. And my style of hunting probably wouldn't allow the precision that I would like to have to make a head shot.

In my area, tracking deer sucks given we get 120 inches of rain a year... A buck shot in a clear cut that isn't DRT is a nightmare. A buck shot in the alpine that isn't DRT is also a nightmare as you don't want to search for a wounded deer, wasting valuable energy and time.

Ummmm, look it up. Deer move well over 50 ft/sec at a run. I have had numerous deer run over 200 yards with holes through both lungs. My worse was a deer with no lungs and no heart run well over 200 yards, blood trail was virtually non-existant after 50-70 yards. No heart to pump blood out, and I have seen that happen many times, just not normally that far. Most well shot deer will not make 100 yards, but some still do go very far. I've killed well over a thousand in my life with everything from 22 lr to 50 bmg, and I still see them do new things now and then that I had not seen before. I even once had to finish one off that was double lunged with a 30-06 over 20 minutes after being shot, stuff happens. It wasn't going anywhere, but I did not want to stand around with it staring at me with it's head up while it finished dying.

In even the most remote parts of Michigan its hard to get more than 1.5 miles away from a road. Even harder to get that far off a logging trail or a fourwheeler track.
And I believe MI has more registered deer hunters than pa and is more remote.
I prefer to kill them in there trucks because many of the areas I hunt have thick tag alder swamps that the deer run for immediately after being hit. Drag a few out of a tag alder swamp and you will see the light.

I'm game. It's a slow Monday.

For me it is that they either drop like you cut the strings,melt, you get four feet in the air or they stand there numb and keel over on their side. Pretty dramatic. I can see the appeal.

That being said, I don't shoot for them unless that is the only presentation. I do bust shoulders if I need to keep them from going where they are headed. Behind the shoulder and 1/3 of the way up is my favorite.

Better to lose the shoulders than the whole animal.

It was pretty astounding. I was thinkin' my .358 was a death ray up until that deer. That's the exit from a 200-gn Hornady Interlock at 2625 MV by the way. The deer was about 20 yards away.

What happened was, he was with a pack of little bucks chasing a pre-estrous doe. It was the 2nd to last day of the season and I'd decided to kill anything legal to get some meat in the freezer. He made the mistake of forking his little horns <g>. Someone in that group of deer spotted me, and they scattered like flies... but he didn't know WHAT they were supposed to be running from and ran right in front of me. He saw me right before I shot him. So he had a pretty good adrenalin charge going. He went a solid 200 yards factoring in the terrain. But the blood trail was like... I don't even know... HUGE!

Talk about dead deer running...

In my book a DRT means the animal doesn't travel after the shot. And animal that simply drops at impact is more like a "bam-flop", but that's my literal way of thinking about the subject.

As for why or whether one can appreciate it the idea, I think that reflects what people have to deal with in their hunting. With deer-sized critters, an extra 100 feet means little in terms of work in packing. Tracking, even with blood trail, in the rain may be another thing. With "super-sized" critters, having them go an extra 100 feet can be entirely undesirable when it comes to the work involved - and that's assuming that it hasn't caused them to find a hell-hole to die in.

Some people like surprises. I don't especially like things that way. There are plenty enough of them as a given in what we do already, be they frozen(?) rivers, unforeseen mechanical problems, weather, etc. When I feel like playing the odds just a bit, I'll use less than a perfect cartridge or rifle. At least with that I have some control. Otherwise, give me "DRT" or I'll keep shooting. (I have tended to get less meat loss with a single good DRT shot than with 1-3 additional shots to accomplish that goal.)

Very well made point.

What's the appeal of DRT? It's NOT having to field dress a moose in the slough with tens of thousands of "no-seeums" flying all around you and into your nose & mouth. Or having to haul him out of the river that he ran into. Been there, done both.
Bear in Fairbanks

With all the deer that I have shot seen shot, I have seen exactly 2 DRT.

I have killed deer with .223, .243, .25-06, 30-30, 12 guage, 50 cal MZ. I have witnessed deer killed with .270 WCF, .30-06, 7MM RM. The two deer that were DRT were a doe killed with a 115g VLD from a .25-06 and a doe killed with a 12 gauge slug. Maybe two out of 50-60 deer killed/seen killed.

I shoot for heart/lungs and only get the shoulder if it is in the way of the heart.

This deer ran about 60 yards after this (160g Woodleigh WeldCore from 6.5x284 at 2800 fps)

Heart/lung area- top of heart missing/offside lung mushed



Offside shoulder- destroyed



IME, fast/slow, copper/frangible bullets, big/large calibers hasnt yielded reliable DRT, of course, I dont mind tracking and where I hunt that is a possibility.

From this post you've clearly a much heavier conscious than me.. which is funny. I've butchered hundreds of big game animals and on deer sized critters, the front shoulders typically don't yield a whole lot. At least not enough for me to feel badly about when I slug a piece of lead through them. I feel bad when I nail one in the ass, but as they say.. desperate measures ..

zeesh Greenie you gotta be desperate to nail one in the azz...grin

Dober

I know..

A most memorable THR/DRT. pronghorn buck, 440 yards, facing straight away - right up the leather cheerio, didn't wreck an ounce of the hams.. The 180grain bullet stopped just short of exiting his sternum. He buckled, did a 3 step circle, and dropped dead. It happened PDQ so I had a hard time regretting anything. I've learned the hard way on bears the double lung is a stoooopid shot, and you have to break shoulders if you don't want trouble. Of course it means those terrific bear shoulders might not yeild as much.. and for that I loose sleep. My favorite shot is the double lung broadside with the 200 grain accubond going light speed... except with bears..

Love learning new TLAs...

Hunting buddy's favorite line standing over a freshly killed big game animal... "You know.. it's never too late to shoot'm in the ass..."

For God's sake, what could possibly be wrong with.. "Crack" and instant hoofs up?? A shoulder roast and maybe a package of burger?? Spare me..

I've kind of always looked at over kill as, you walk up to the recently deceased and then you empty the gun into it...

Course it could make for some lighter packs out...grin

Dober

I prefer DRT for all the VALID reasons already explained. I make shoulder shots to accomplish this, and I don't apologize. I choose bullets that exhibit controlled expansion and assured complete penetration at the velocities my rifles obtain, and the meat loss is minimal. Some people eat the heart and liver and would consider a behind-the-shoulder shot wasteful. Some people mount the rack and would consider the head shot wasteful. Many people eat the neck meat and would consider that shot wasteful. We have to do damage to the animal to kill it. Call it "lazy" if you must, but not all of us are young bucks any more. Some of us have no cartilage where there once was cartilage, and just getting to the stand is tough. You choose your shots and I'll choose mine. In the end, it's the venison in the freezer that means anything to me.

-

I don't get many DRT's, but they are the norm on lung shots with my buddie's 45-70 using a variety of loads.
Reasons DRT's are desirable: 1) quick humane kills 2) no tracking headaches (darkness, bad weather, thick brush, nearby private land etc. 3) less chance of a heart attack for us "experienced" hunters.

Now THAT'S funny.
-

That is funny <g>.

I've never been able to scroll by Azshoother's handle here on the fire without doing a doubletake- not a knock on AZ, whom I really like, just... always catches my dirty little mind's eye <g>.

Can't speak to a THS, but I will let a buck walk before I ever shoot one in the meat of the ass again. What a MESS.

The only shot that causes me regret is in the backstrap. It's a DRT shot for sure, but oh the cost!

-

Here's one I lunged last week, then had to crack one through his shoulder to keep him from going where I didn't want to have to deal with him.. Hardly any meat loss.

I like this photo not much on antler, but LOTS of meat.

Here's one from the week before I lunged twice, then got sick of him just standing there in discomfort, so I broke his shoulders.. I should have just shot him in the ass though.

My regret, was not a huge weighing of guilt on my conscience . I just regretted loss of loin meat, which, I find to be the most desireable. I never lost sleep over it. I didn't wish to imply that to feel regret one must weep or seek absolution. If I'm in a situation where I say, "damn, I wrecked some of the loin", then yes, I think regret is the appropriate word, even if you find it funny. You guessed right, the front shoulders don't yield a lot of meat. I too discovered this several hundred deer ago; but, they still yield meat. Like I tried to state in my prior posts, I'm not judging anybody, I would just like input from others.

Come on.. it is sorta funny, you gotta admit. But the funniest part of this thread is this..

I shoot to bust both shoulder blades. I want DRT.

Easy for me to say why. I am blue/green and red/orange color blind. That is to say my red and oranges tend to look a lot alike.

While I can track many animals that aren't dropping blood, do it where I hunt is difficult. I have seen as many as 18 deer in one night on the same location. Try and discern a hit deer in that jumble of overturned leaves, dirt and hoof prints is darn near impossible.

While blood on show is easy to follow - aiming for the shoulder is so instinctive with a rifle - I tend to do so regardless of snow condition.

Don't take it as an offense.. just kidding around. I'm a bit anal myself.. I have a habit of continously wiping my kitchen counter with a dish rag.. even when it's clean.

I've gotten dozens of DRTs from behind the shoulder broadside shots on medium sized critters. Quite common around here on our small deer.

I find this to happen moreso when fast expansive bullets are used. You may find this strange, but I've even dropped deer with poor shot placement such as liver or high lung shots. Yes, I've had my fair share run off, but DRTs are very common in medium game IME.

I have a theory that many will probably disagree with. I feel the shock of the impact gives a temporary paralization, the deer folds, and is dead before it's body regains control. The reason I say that is because several of them quiver, twitch, or flop a bit after they fall.

I will say that when I've used or witnessed medium game shot with hard premium bullets with no CNS or bones hit, they seem to run far more than when taken with fast expansive bullets that deliver more damage.

Good Luck

loder

I once waited for a bull elk to reach a level spot on the east side of Hells Canyon before taking my shot. Seemingly oblivious to the hit, he took 3 steps and fell over. Those 3 steps let him slide about 400 yards downslope. I wish he had been DRT.

Ya think????

I haven't seen as many downed deer as some, but in the ones I did see the loin meat wasn't in the DRT end.

Greenhorn, what caliber is that Mountain Rifle LSS? Pardon me if I've asked that before <g>. I have one just like it. As well as a 30-06 that used to be a MR but now has a heavier (sporter) barrel but still the same stock.

I love that MR LSS stock!

-jeff

I want to eat the beast not torture it.I was in NM about 10 years ago hunting Antelope with a group that included a female gun mag writer.
it was very windy,I was using a mod 7 in 308 with a bi pod and she was using a custom 257 bob,I took my shot at 216 yds broke both shoulders and popped the heart,1 n done.
this ding a ling was shooting off hand at over 400 yds with a major cross wind fired 8 shot's

1- shot in the ass
2- took off the tip of the left horn
3 miss
4- miss
5- left front leg
reloading, I ask her "WTF?" does this thing owe you money?
6- middle spine
7- left hinds
8- gut shot
the guide show's up and says what are you doing? rides a quad to it and put's it out of it's misery,if that doesn't make you want to make every shot DRT I don't know what will.
DRT is not an ego thing it's an ethics thing.

Obviously you have never hunted in Pa. In some parts it is entirely impossible to get more than 1 and a half miles from away from a road. There are other places where you won't get more than a few hundred yards from a road.

I am one of those million plus Pa deer hunters. We hunt one State game lands section that is 3500 acres, and there are several public roads that dissect that property. The Property our club owns is only 65 acres and we lease another 300. We are bordered by private property on all sides that crawl with hunters. As for what makes a"DRT" shot more attractive over a typical lung heart shot, well I think there is a very strong argument. In an area such as PA, there is a very real probability that if you don't drop a der instantly, or atleast within a couple hundred feet you may very well find yourself on someone else' property and there is no guarantee that you will be allowed access to retrieve that deer. We routinely take shoulder shots to anchor deer more quickly just for the above reason.

If you haven't seen a well hit deer travel more than 100-150 yards, you haven't hunted highly pressured deer very much. Last year we tracked a doe that had been hit high in the right front shoulder for almost a mile. When we found her and gutted her 1 lung was collapsed and the liver was shredded, and the heart torn. Deer energized by adrenaline are phenomenal creatures, and are capable of very surprising feats.

As far as hunters in Pa being lazy I think you should come out here and hunt. Yes there are lazy hunters here and I try every year to send everyone I come in contact with back to Philly or New Jersey. Most hunters I run into fall into 2 groups. 1 being the group who comes out on the first couple of days and just enjoys being in the woods, he stays out in a stand for a couple of hours then comes back for a nap and something to eat and maybe BS with the other guys in camp for a while then goes back to his stand for the eveining. He gets together with buddies on Saturdays and do deer drives all day. The second are the guys who hunt every hour of every day possible. These guys hunt hard, and cover as much ground as possible, even if it means covering the same ground often by different methods.
Honestly in my opinion Tagging a big buck on public land in Pennsylvania is perhaps one of the hardest things to accomplish in all of deer hunting

ADK4Rick.. that's sounds like an impressive show. Was she going for the lungs or the shoulders?

Sometimes those DRTs don't work out.. here's one that ran around along side a county road while the archer tried to get a 2nd arrow in it for an hour or so.. I'm sure it rivals your lady rag writer.

Live by this motto or learn otherwise..

This poor devil took 4 TSXs through both lungs before toppling a month ago... If you are hunting with those kinds of bullets, I think shoulders are a prerequisite..

What caliber, and more importantly, what bullet do you shoot. It's hard to imagine not have a few DRTs even with lung shot with any bullets. Of the lung shot deer I've taken, I'd say about 50% have been DRT and the rest made it no more than 60 yards. I'm not sure why you haven't seen any DRT's with lung hits as I get them all the time and so do the rest of my buddies, but then again, we just shoot run of the mill cup and core ballistic tips, interlocks and core-lokts. We don't shoot copper bullets or partitions. The rest of my DRT's have been neck shots, shoulder shots (which also take out lungs) and one head shot. I'd say a DRT is a little more humane than having the animal 50-75 yards in a state of panic.

Well - the one was an arrow.

The others (all this season) were TSX bullets. And there were 3 other animals I believe, none dropped with a direct lung bullseye, although one pronghorn doe made a 90 yard death sprint.

I've dropped a pile of animals with other bullet types and lung hits.. but the TSX is not typical. I'm switching back to 200 grain accubombs next year.. I've had explosive results with them.

I believe that's the sign of a hunter too cheap to buy a meat grinder.

Easy on the knocking the Jersey guy's,I've hunted with some guy's from Pennsyltucky that were knuckle heads too.

We all know that idiocy knows no territorial boundaries, so let's all dispense with the harsh words and lighten-up a tad, eh? Sheesh!

-

OR DOC: Dead On Combine:

Oooooooh, nice Freudian slip. <friendly grin!>

We saw a lot of guys doing the F-150 stalk in the southern U.P. this year too.

--Bob

That's a cool looking goat - how long is he? I managed to once again shoot one smaller than the bucks that I saw later in the season while helping a few buddies out. You'd think I'd learn a little self control eventually. He was DRT 351yds quartering toward thru point of one shoulder and mush in the vitals. (14" - 5 1/2" diggers) 7 mm 140 grain ballistic tip

Man, its going to be a looooong winter here, isn't it?

Greenhorn, headshots with a bow almost never end well. I tried that out of a groundblind on a doe the first year the season opened Aug 15th. Very similar results to your buddy.


Now, just to throw some fuel on the fire. The longest sprinter I've ever had made it 320 yards all the way across the "Back 50" of the family ranch. Just a yearling doe, standing broadside at about 150 yards. She was hit with a 210 Partition out of a 338 WM. Solid double lung, and top of the heart. My theory is that the Partition never really opened up in such a small critter.

Some animals just don'tknow about dying. My son-in-law was with a guy who double lunged a pronghorn at a water hole. It ran off into the sage and laid down. They waited for quite awhile. They went ot retrive it and it stood up so he double lunged it again. It took of for about 1/4 mile. They waited wor a little while and went for it again. When it got up again, they became concerned.

By now it was getting dark so he shot it with factory lead core 180's from a .308. They walked to it and it wa still alive. It was shot again. The autopsy showed both arrows had hit both lungs. The .308 and hit both lungs.

I used to use a 7-.300 Weatherby. It launched 175 Nosler partitions at 3,150. I hit a large muledeer about three inches above the heart from a distance of about 110 yards. This thing didn'tknow it wasa dead on its feet. Easily it traveled 200 yards or more. This guy was unsual. I have more DDRT than runners.

The value to me of DDRT is I don't have to go looking for them. The only time I go for a deer or elk taking off running is if they run toward the truck. That always works for me.

I don't get it. I fully expect a well shot deer or elk to drop where they stand or start to stagger right away. I'm rarely dissapointed.

I've heard about deer and elk that have to be trailed after a rifle shot but only had to do it once and that was a bad intial shot with a decent followup after he was on the run.

My dad has killed a whole lot of deer and so I asked him. "What happened to the deer you shot with a rifle?"

"They fell down. What do you think?"

"Right away?"

"Yeah"

I don't know what shot placement other people choose that allows their game to wander a ways before collapsing but I take them tight in the shoulder crease about a third of the way up. The actual target I'm trying to hit is the top of the heart. Every time I've made the shot I wanted to the animal, be it deer or elk, went down like a stone never to rise again.

Why do I like it that way? Faster death, or at least loss of consciousness for the animal and no concern for me about them dying in front of another guy that might put his tag on it before I get there. I consider it a good skill to have to be able to put them on the ground right now.

I'm a bowhunter too and I don't have a problem trailing game if I have to, I just don't like to have to when I can do otherwise.

I concur! I don't want to hear stories of what a great tracker you are. I want to hear how you put him in the dirt on that first anchor shot. What kind of a hunter takes pride in a bullet that blows right through and animal that leaves two holes to aid in tracking? Died in his last tracks at the shot. That's for bragging, not how far he ran.

We have all had shots that were muffed. As in when that branch ran in front of my rifle, or that darn alder stopped my swing on that moose. My favorite is All I could aim at was hair through my scope. To close for a four power scope. None of that kind of shooting is for bragging, should we always take that less than ideal shot?

Every situation is different- but I have "lost" two lung shot moose (about 10 times the size of most deer and no worry about other properties or hunters)) long enough for the meat to spoil - 12 hours will do it. In both cases, I was two steps away and following my nose some time later before I could see them- or what was left of them. Several other times ( with CNS- tho not necessarily DRT shots) I have had similar experiences - but I knew where they were, since they went straight down. In one instance, My foot was about 18 inches from the butt of a 42 inch bull before I caught sight of his antler tips some 10 feet away in the grass and deadfall.... In this case, I'd shot him in the spine @ 70 yards just forward of his hips, as the only shot offered, the front half being covered by a big spruce, and him about ready to bolt. He was DRT, only it took a second shot to the back of his head- once I could see it - but he wasn't going anywhere...

In more open country, or at longer ranges, I'll go for the boiler room, being assured I'll likely find them, but in the jungle I hunt moose in, it is CNS/DRT if I can get it. - even if it takes a second shot- which I always give them anyway, several times having had the crap scared out of me by "dead" animals that weren't, quite.

Blood trails are not all that reliable - and admittedly, I'm not a very good tracker, so I work around it....

What's the appeal of having your animal run all over hell and gone? I find that if they do run it's usually NOT closer to the road or anyplace convient for gutting or packing. Also, here's a picture of my Grandfather with the deer that he shot this past year at 250 yardsish. Compare the color of the animal to the surounding area. It is REAL easy to lose an animal out there.

Notwithstanding best intentions and efforts, a guy just never really knows what he's gonna get when he pulls the trigger regardless of bullets and cartridges,and solid placement.If all you've ever had was DRT, you have not done much hunting.

Oh boy, now we are debating killing animals to quick. DOA, DRT whatever. Yeah I am to lazy to track a wounded deer down a steep rocky ravine thick with laurel and high cliffs. I will just do my homework, use the right rifle and only take the shot that will put him down right there.

That is correct, most do hunt within 1.5 miles of a road, because you would have a hard time in most of the state to find squares that are more than 3 miles across. That doesn't make us lazy.
As a matter of fact, how about you come along where I was bear hunting on Monday and see who's lazy, you A-hole!

Well I assume several of these last posts' questions were directed at me so, I'll step up to the plate and take my lumps. As I said previously, I don't judge anybody. I've actually, other than a poorly placed shot, always tried for either a heart or a lung shot. It's been my experience that most heart or lung shots result in a short run. Sometimes that's two leaps, some times it's a 30yd, 50yd, even a 100 yd run. As long as it's been a well placed heart or lung shot, it doesn't result in a long tracking job. Do I desire a DRT from one of these? Absolutely, without question. My assertion is that to attain a DRT regularly, I assume one needs to either do a shoulder shot or a spine shot. If that is incorrect, fine, I'm always willing to learn from others and dont' assert that I am correct or that my way is "the" way. My shot selection choice has not been for shoulder or neck/spine shots. I don't think I've ever lost a deer this way. In response to another poster herein, I believe it is commonly accepted that heart or lung shots result in quick humane kills and do not prolong any suffering (I'm paraphrasing as this was implied by the poster). Heck, maybe this weekend I'll try a shoulder shot, look at the results and see if this may be my new desired method. Like I said from the beginning, I'm inquiring and not judging. To most of you, good discussion. To those of you who responded as though you were being judged, I can't put any more qualifiers in my posts than I already do. Thanks for the input guys.

This may be a good title for a new thread; but, I'll speculate you won't find many proponents of that.

What in the world is wrong with DRT? It beats the hell out of many of the alternatives.

Given my druthers I'll take DRT every time!!

If that was directed at me, there is nothing wrong with DRT and nobody said otherwise. Clearly, my post was an inquiry and in no way could be construed as a condemnation thereof. Anybody who is smarter than a small soapdish could see I was seeking to be educated. If not directed at me, drive on.

It wasn�t directed specifically at you, but you ARE the one who posed this question:



To put my answer another way, why would NOT DRT be desirable on non-dangerous game? When I pull the trigger I like to see the animal drop in its tracks. Over the years I have had my share of DRTs and only one animal has made it more than a few yards. None of the DRTs were spine or brain shots as I go for the heart and lungs.

Ease up, dude - you asked the question, you have to expect responses.

Yep, "why desirable", qualified by many things in my posts. The "What in the world is wrong with a DRT" question you posed sounded like you were infering things that were not implied. If I'm not correct on that, then I apologize and I need to read more thoroughly. If I'm right, then you need to lighten up significantly and read more thoroughly, dude.

Or....

DULM




Also a great way to process deer

Sorry.. Couldn't help myself

Me three!

Dober

Oh, My Lab Mutt is wondering just what in the hell happened to the rest of the deer that he just saw 20 minutes ago in the back of HIS truck. He walked around for 5 minutes trying to figure out what was going on

What kinda mower velocity are you getting?

26 1/2" steaks per minute

And all the bones and hair get sucked into the bag.

I just have my wife and kids stand there with freezer paper in old baseball mitts... Rocky the Amazing Dumbazz Wundermutt takes care of wrapping and taping, since he doesn't have thumbs

The only time I DON'T want DRT is when the animal gets shot and then runs closer to the truck.

I think you will get a better chance of DRT on a deer sized animal if you use relatively light rapidly expanding bullets. In .30 caliber I used to hunt pronghorns with 150 grain GameKings and they worked fine. One DRT but that was CNS.

But there's also much to be said about leaving an exit hole, not because it leaves a better blood trail but because it lets air into the lung cavity faster, causing quicker lung collapse, and the animal won't run as far.

To get the best of both worlds, I now use Nosler Partitions.

You mean I'm not the only ignorant, unenlightened, moron that thinks its the best prenium bullet going?

I've never been one of the "Weight Retention" junkies... When you blow the front core apart on a Partition, you didn't WASTE that energy.

Well, I can say that DRT means a lot to me and always has. In NM and MT, where I hunted most of my life, an animal running very far meant packing them out of some steep azz canyon.

Here in WI, public land is small and full of other hunters. I hunted 2 areas last Saturday for opener and saw 25 other hunters that morning on 1 sq mi of public land. That afternoon I saw 7 on 120 acres. Saw 1 deer way down in a ravine at 7:00 am. Didn't shoot cause there was no shot, only movement in the thick trees. Not even sure if it was a doe or buck.

Thursday I hunted a private 40 acres consisting of mature woods with a deep ravine through the middle from one corner to the other. Sat on a stool against a big oak just far enough down the hill to see into the ravine in both directions.

Right after legal shooting, heard a shot from my left about a quarter mile away, figured it was on the neighboring 40, which sports a house. 10 minutes later a 4 pt buck (the first deer I saw that I could get a shot on) walked into sight from behind the shoulder of the hill to my left. I shot him, DRT. In at the base of the neck, out behind the far shoulder. I never moved after the shot, hoping a doe or two might come in. Ten or fifteen minutes later, a hunter walked through on the opposite hill, left to right, about 2/3 of the way across the 40. He stopped and stood for a while, then crossed the ravine and headed back uphill toward the road. As far as I knew he was trespassing, but I was the only one on the place and had no right to challenge him. Besides, I would have followed a deer I wounded as well. The funny thing is, I never saw or heard a deer move through there ahead of him. It must have done so, the blood was very fresh, but I never heard it and I heard my buck coming a few steps at a time for a full minute or more before he appeared.

I tagged my buck and dragged him to the gully bordering the other road, gutted him, and headed out.

I came back later and found the spot the other guy had stopped. Sure enough, he lost a blood trail there. I backtracked it up the hill to the neighboring 40, went back and picked it up 50 yards or so from where he gave up, and followed it down to the corner of the lot into some big oak and tall grass, hoping it had gone in there to hole up.

No such luck. The deer crossed the road and went onto private land I had no permission to hunt, so I shook my head and left.

If he had broken bone, that deer would be hanging in his yard or someone's cooler right now, instead of feeding coyotes after finally bleeding out and expiring. I might have even gotten it, was hoping to in fact. Better that than waste it on coyotes. If my deer had run, I would have found myself arguing with the guy over it, since he naturally would have assumed it was the same deer he was trailing.

DRT rules IMHO, no matter where one hunts. That's my take, YMMV.

I have never worried about it too much. In the latter years I tend to hunt where it is not so nasty. There are some times when I chose to just put the safety back on if it seems there is a likely hood of the animal going somewhere I don't want it too. Soemtimes even if they are DRT,they still travel. A few years ago I shot a cow elk and she tipped right over. Problem was,she was on the edge of a steep hill and slid dwon about 300 yds bfeore getting stopped by a tree. I was able to climb down and quarter her,but to get the mules to her,I had to ride around the mounatin about 2 miles and then side hill about a 1/2 mile

I can't remember them all,but there is certainly not even close to 1000 deer as the guy from SC, probbaly not even 100,but I can only remember one going very far and it was bad shot placement. Same as two elk.
I can't remember any pronghorn going over 10 yds.

Mostly I chose the double lunger, but have found if you catch them a little far back, they don't go down quickly as I expierenced with one cow elk I hit with 50 cal maxi ball.She went about 300yds.

I do think DRT is highly desireable, but I don't get all choked up about it.

Here is one elk which if it would have gone 100 yds would have saved me a lot of trouble getting it out of downfall. Now dasy,I would let it walk.

Off memory, DRTs on deer:

6.5x55 3 with 120 corelokts (neck, lung, spine), 1 with 130 Abond Double Lung
270 1 with 150 btip spine
6BR 2 with 105 amax Head shot, spine shot
260 Used two loads that out of state hunt...either ballistic tip 100gr or 129 SP but was lung shot, have to look at records to confirm

357 Rifle 158jsp spine

7BR rifle 130 speer SP spine running
7/08 139 sp neck>spine facing
243 1 with 70gr tnt Neck shot
338/06 1 200 Btip neck/shoulder juncture
Son's deer 243 85BTHP spine

Most deer I had DRT were CNS hits= head/neck but some body shots. Possible some of those the shock 'hydrostatic' etc. disrupted the CNS.

Majority of other deer double lunged and average 30-60yds to fall.

DRT is what I hope for, DROP RIGHT THERE if not DEAD RT as I can relax in comfort, that I have no tracking or risk of losing an animal I respect, and because I respect them I want as quick and humane kill as possible.

I hate shooting shoulders, etc. due to meat damage.

It is to be expected as above, an animal if not CNS hit, will survive a minimal time on O2 in Blood even if heart not pumping, but what is left is quickly burned up, and C02 rises fast, lights out if bleeding well.

TOO many variables and there are generalities but sometimes WELL hit animals with good cartridges hitting with good velocity and good bullets, just do not want to give up the ghost. Those times, a generous exit hole i.e. a 358 will give you a blood trail easier to follow (and I too am color blind) vs a 243 with a partition that expands to small to marginal frontal area-and leaves a much smaller exit.

At the end of the day, I still believe SHOT PLACEMENT rules, re: of other variables. If good placement is suspect, the hunter has the free will to hold fire for a better shot....or another day.

Thomas I think perhaps for the guys who practice more, they are better shots on average, and perhaps using bullets that hedge their bets towards achieving higher % of DRTs so it is talked about alot, but not obtaining them is not a reason to apologize nor for anyone to criticize others.

I Do get a high level of satisfaction when I see an animal Drop in their tracks, and am encouraged to do it as often as I can, with controlling what variables I can control. I think many others share that goal.

you boys are screwing up


sooner or later you're going to run into the same problems with NP's that I have.


you're skinning a critter find part of your bullet, and yep it'll hit you like a ton of bricks.......BULLET failure



I'd be embarrassed to tell you how many times that's happened!

and oh year I mucho prefer DRT to DWL

+1 It is up to the person behind the gun.

That's a freakin' horse man. My goodness.