Went over some pre-op tests two days ago with my surgeon. He plans on fusing 3 or 4 neck vertebrae and I asked him if I will be healed up in time for my spring Canadian black bear hunt. Apparently he has done some big game hunting and he asked what caliber I hunt bear with. I replied 35 Whelen and he said he would not recommend shooting a magnum because it could jeoporadize the cadaver bone graft and titanium plate adhesion. I replied that a 35 Whelen is not a magnum and he seemed surprised.

A lively debate ensued and I listed some of the calibers I own and he said he would get back to me with a recommendation. The surgeons assistant called today and it looks like my "old reliable" will be pressed into service... 7X57. I asked the assistant how did the surgeon determine the 7X57 to be OK? She said I will have to ask him the day of my operation.

Surgeons are really smart people...

Great to have a doc that is also a hunter; first thing my doc asks me when I visit is how the hunting has been. He shoots a 7STW, little unusual for a one rifle hunter. Hope you get along well with your vertebrae fusing operation.

Best of luck to ya roundoak. Lucky to have a Doc that hunts.

Good reason to go out and get a new rifle 7-08. Mine has very little recoil.

The 7x57 has been used to take just about every big game animal on earth, if not all such animals. Bears are not a problem if you use a well-placed bullet.

Seems to me its foolish to risk further injury on a black bear. Personally I think you should sit this one out till you are all healed up.

The .35 Whelen isn't a magnum, but the 7x57 is more than enough for blackie. Any good deer rifle is sufficent.

Dats a BIG 10-4.....

Ingwe

That doctor is a smart man!

My buddy John Galindo had similar surgery in August. He had a couple of vertebra fused together or something. He had to go to therapy to regain his mobility etc. His doctor advised him to give up hunting for a year or so, but being the stubborn old man that he is he borrowed my daughters Model Seven in 7mm-08. Well, Deer season came along and he got himself a big hog, a small buck, and coyote. The only problem now is that i'm gonna have a hard time prying that Model Seven out of his hands. Anyway, it may not look very nice, but there many kinds of muzzle brakes that would help with the recoil.

My 35 Whelen hits harder than my 338WM at my end and apparently the elk's end, also. It's not worth riskng having to redo the operation. I've had 2 hernia repairs due to elk hunting.

Good luck on your bear hunt. That 7x57 will do the job.

My very lightweight "non-magnum" .35 Whelen generated 36 ft lbs of recoil and worse than that was the 16 fps recoil velocity with my top loads. It would give me a headache after a 12 rounds. However you can load down the cartridge to .35 rem levels and be very effective still on game. Certainly you are not handicaped if you use a 7x57mm either. Good luck with the surgery.

Thanks for all the comments. I am going to follow the doctor's orders..if he says 7x57 is OK then thats what it will be. I would not miss out on bear hunting even if I would have to throw rocks.

My 35 Whelen load for Moose and Black bear has been Hornady 250gr SP PT over 55grs H4320 for about 2475fps. A guide I hunted with a few years ago called the gun and load a "Moose Tipper". The guide put me within 75 paces of two bull Moose that were half-azz sparing with each other at the edge of a lake. We were positioned inland from the lake in some scrub trees and when I shot the 60" bull it tipped over sideways down a gravely bank, got up and regained its footing, took a half-dozen steps and keeled over.

I have a 7X57 175gr Hornady SP load I worked up a few years ago. My notes indicate 49grs H4350 gave good accuracy at 2580fps. Another load that was worked up more recently is probably my favorite for elk is 160gr Nosler Partition on top of 48grs H4350SC 2660fps. A new batch of Hodgon H4350SC chronos 2700fps. So will load up some R-P cases and confirm my loads.

Definately do not feel under-gunned with the 7X57 and I know it can be used on all North American big game except for the big bears. But that is no fun just to have one gun for everthing. I need a gun for this, a gun for that and etc.

With the 7x57 you will not be undergunned.I am suprised that he thought the 35 whelen was a magnum.

While not named a Magnum, or usually thought of as one, the 35 Whelen's I've shot all kicked like or more than the rifles I have that say Magnum on the barrel.

Love the 35 cals, but they do bite.

My doc told me to stop churching up my win mag loads, and to consider easing off the magnum shotgun shells to boot.

When it comes down to me or my insurance paying the sawbones x-thousands of dollars to heal me up, I usually try to comply with the advice. After all, I expect him to listen to me when I tell him where his property line is at...

He was a sport skeet shooter. Joked about writing me a prescription for a bunch of slip on limbsavers....

The good news is that after the cadaver bone fuses your vertabrae should be as strong or stronger than the original. Not my prediction but the surgeon's. Had L5/S1 fusion years ago (last lumbar vertabra to first sacral). Believe me I've tested it. My only downside was a negative reaction to the titanium hardware. My body wanted to engulf it in scar tissue. Two years after the original surgery I had to have the hardware removed and the scar tissue trimmed. After that I can say the procedure has been a great success. Good luck to you and follow Dr's orders .

Shootem...it appears you have been there and done that.

Any truth to the rumor that the titanium hardware can pick up radio stations? It would be my luck if it was a rap music station....

Nahhh, you'll get Heavy Metal

roundoak, my brother had the same problem. He ruined the operation, now in pain.

What ever you do, protect your health.

It is probably against your religion, but a muzzle break will tame a 7 Mag down to the level of a 243. my 7 STW pushing the 140's at 3600+ kicks like a 270. I wear Peltor tac 6 ear muffs, and it has been a blessing because I can hear much more than the average human ever could.

Don't gamble with your health, the results of ruining the operation are worse than you could ever imagine...constant pain, bad attitude, hard to live with, and so on and so forth.

Good luck and best wishes

Keith

The 7x57 will handicap you in no way at all. I would just hold off on the load development, use the tried and true loads.

I would also avoid horses and four wheelers as much as possible for awhile.

Good luck.

Radio stations huh? Thought it was just the voices.

After 3 fusion operations 6 screws and 18 in of wire,It's the voices.I get it now.

roundoak: Good luck with oyur surgery....you will be well served with your 7x57 for your bear....didn't Jim Corbett use it on maneating tigers?

Why not get a zero recoil or negative rise muzzle brake installed?

I think that a 7x57 has too much recoil...it's not worth taking a chance, I'd put a muzzle break on it...cut recoil 60%.

If you must go a muzzel beak is a good idea the only drawback is the loud blast when it goes off but you have to think about your condition I myself had to put a break on my 7mm STW due to the fact i broke my right shoulder in three places and with the way it healed i couldent take the recoil . and by the way I was a lot better shot with it after it was done good luck to you,

I think if he believes a .35 whelen is a magnum, maybe you should make your own opinion on the subject.....

could go with the best one available, not that i am biased

6.5x55 swede, 140 grain nosler, and dirt nap for DA BEARS.

It did give me pause, but not ready to second guess him on his caliber recommendation. Will get a chance to ask him about his basis for the 7x57 soon.

Some people have no shame...PM me and I will send my address so you can ship the gun to me with your bear load

In a few hours will be under the knife. As soon as I can sit up and take nourishment...hope to visit with all my friends here on this forum soon.

The best to you.

Best wishes.

There are worse cartridges that you could use other than the 7x57.

i am fortunate in that after shoulder replacement surgery the surgeon ok'd the use of anything that doesn't kick more than a light 12 ga... and that covers a lot of ground...

It is great to be on the internet again. Need to catch up on correspondence.

Thanks for all the "good lucks" and well wishes.

I had C6 fused to C7 in 2001. My neurosurgeon, who also is a shooter, told me to "take it easy" with shotguns for 6 months, but placed no hard restrictions on my activity. I played a lot with handguns during that time. Like you, I did NOT want to do that (surgery) again, so I didn't want to risk screwing anything up. Mine was only one level with donor bone and a titanium plate. One level probably makes a difference, as opposed to several, as you had.

I'll suggest you start small, with something like a 22, to see how the neck flexibility (It's gonna be different with a multi level fusion, I guarantee)goes. See if you can see the sights, or how the scope lines up. You can even do that at home. Then try a centerfire rifle, and go from there.

Don't get discouraged if your neck is too stiff soon after the surgery. It likely will continue to improve, even two years or more after the surgery.

Let us know how you get along.

Beerbacker...thanks for dropping me a note. It is good to hear from others that have been down this road.

It is unbelievable how much surgery weakens the entire body. So far walking has been the best therapy.

By the way...I am milking the sympathy my friends and family have extended me.

Thanks again for the post.

and this is a situation where i would be glad i can shoot left and right handed

Ambidexterity does not help in this case. What I have been instructed to avoid is a sudden jolt, or jar from any means. If I simply fell on my azz or received a kick in the azz it could cause a problem.

Just following doctor's orders.

MUZZLE BRAKE! and go hunting

Hope your recovery goes well. This would seem like a perfect situation to add a brake to your rifle, even the 7 x 57. Get a removeable brake fitted & use some of the good ear protection that lets you hear and even amplify normal sounds. I don't much care for brakes, but your situation surely warrants it to keep from messing up your surgery.

Maybe somebody here has a .35 or 7mm brake they would let you use, if you get your barrel threaded. I have a 30 caliber (Similar to Vias) brake that you could have if you have a suitable 30 cal rifle you could thread for it. It makes a 300 Jarrett feel like a .308 or less. It would likely make a '06 or .308 win feel like a .223 or .243.

Good Luck healing up.

As I implied earlier, if you like handguns, now is a perfect time to explore that interest. Even the heaviest handgun recoil is absorbed by your arms, so your neck never feels the jolt. You also never have to crane your neck or flex it in any way that is uncomfortable.

You have several good ideas offered by the members here, starting with the muzzle brake. I think you'd like a Limbsaver or other modern ultra-absorbent recoil pad as well. You likely wouldn't retrofit all of your guns, but the neck surgery is a perfect reason to change the pad on the 7x57 and/or the Whelen.

Roundoak: Hope your recovery goes well for you. I had C5 - C6 and C7 fused with bone from my sternum on Jan. 18, 2010 and I'm doing great! I have a couple of 35 Whelen's and a 338-06 and a custom M-98 w/B&C stock in 35 Whelen doesn't kick me as much as the others or a couple of 30-06's, maybe it's how the stock fits? I'm kicking out 250's at 2505 over my Chrono with BLC-2. By the way, hope you don't get shocked like me at the bill you're going to get. Would you believe 6 screws to hold the plate @$648. = $4,116. plus two PEET spacers (between the vertebrae) @ $2,340. = $4,680. and the 42.5 MM plate @ $2,740. Total for the hospital was $25,750. and another $21,000. for the surgeon. And we think nice rifles are expensive....

I am confident the 7x57 low recoil should work out for me.

Thanks for the ideas to reduce recoil, however by the time I need to pull the trigger on a black bear later this spring the 7x57 recoil should not present a problem.

I appreciate the well wishes...

Thanks for the well wishes and glad to hear you are coming along ok without complications.

My anterior neck fusion was C3 - C6 and involved donor bone. Did you have an option...your sternum or donor bone? I was not presented with an option.

Your mentioned owning some 35 Whelen's...great caliber. My Ruger M77 tang safety will have to sit this one out. 7x57 will be pressed into action. I have a 30-06 Ruger M77 action and barrel and intend to have it re-barreled for the 338-06 sometime this year. How many grains of BLC-2 and what bullet brand are you using in yours?

I can not comment on the expense of this surgery because I have not seen the bill yet, however I do have an estimate...Wow..may have to sell the farm. Actually, when it comes I would like to send it to Obama as he and his administration want to take care of me.

Hollar back when you can.

I second the motion to sent our bills to Wash. and let the "Obaminal Care" pay for it - but since Congress is exempt for having to use 'lower class' health care I doubt it will do us much good... As for the donor bone question, my surgeon has gone exclusively to patient bone. Implied he'd had some problems with donor bone in the past. I've been wearing a "Spinalpak Stimulator" that fits in my shirt pocket and attaches to stick-on pads on each side of my neck 24/7 since the surgery, are you?. X-rays next week to see how well the bone has healed.
As for the Whelen loads, I use (24" barrel) Rem cases, Rem 9 1/2 Primers, and Speer Grand Slam 250 Gr. with 59. of BLC-2 for an average according to my records of 2551 fps. (error in first email showed 2505) and I backed off to 58.5 when using the Nosler Partition 250 for an average of 2535 fps. No signs of primer cratering, or leakage - BUT - start lower and work up! As I mentioned, I had a 338-06 built a few years ago, but I honestly feel it doesn't match the Whelen for knock down power and I can't improve it's accuracy or speed over the Whelen with the 250's. Should have saved my money...

No Spinalpak Stimulator...they just stitched me up and put me in a neck brace. I am slowly being weaned from it and I go in for x-rays a couple weeks from now.

Interesting Whelen loads. I never tried BL-C(2) in my two Whelens...it appears you are getting some respectable velocity with it.

Both the Ruger M77 22" barrel and 1903-A3 Springfield with 24" Buhmiller barrel prefer IMR4320. Ruger 55grs 250gr Speer SP @ 2525fps. Springfield 54grs 250gr Hornady RN @ 2480fps.

Hope your x-rays and checkup go OK...

I have a 35 Whelen and load a lot or rounds down to around 35 Rem levels. Hasn't the 35 Rem killed a lot of black bears through the years with low recoil? Nothing says you have to load it to max levels - I've even killed a few deer by loading it with a 158 grain bullet at 357 magnum velocities. Just another possibility...

Paul

Bob Milek sold me on the 35Whelen. Thanks Bob where ever you are.

Paul,

If the Whelen was my only rifle, your suggestion would probably work well, however I am fortunate to have other options. The 7x57 should be compatible with my physical limitations.

Best advice is to quit using tobbaco if that is one of your vices.