Pat: Mule deer...

now give me a hard question.....

Easy...a freakazoid big non-typical mule deer with change to spare. Regardless of what other kinds of animals are on display a big nasty-knarly looking non-typical mule deer buck will always capture my attention first!

Dall sheep - why? I failed on two tries and would like to feel the burn of rarefied air again.

Yesterday I would have said, "A 90-inch pronghorn."

Today, after looking at, holding, fondling, (or any other term you want to use) an officially measured 204 6/8" Montana bighorn, I have changed my mind.

I thought I had seen some big rams before, but this one was so unbelievable, it made you stand back and shake your head.

One like that would be my wish.

Monster muley...

Bighorn sheep would also be a dream as well.

honestly, i would also fall into the mule deer category. non typical would be cool, as long as it had a drop tine.

Funny the differences in likes. Give me symmetry and mass, non-typicals do not much for me.

Mule deer (clean, heavy typical) followed by mt lion then antelope.

Shiras Moose

Toss up between non-typical mule deer and mtn goat. Mtn goat because I know that where I will hunt them will give me the best hunt ever, but tagging one that makes B&C would require a ton of luck (act of God), as I don't think I could judge them well enough to know one way or another, nor would I really care so long as I knew I was taking a good adult billy.

Non-typical mule deer is a given and I have seen 3 that would have pushed the envelope on B&C, all while hunting. 2 in WY, while archery hunting, together, and one in MT while rifle hunting. I also saw one that gross scored 218 the day before hunting season in AZ, that was taken by another hunter 5 days later.. 35 inches wide and super heavy. 230 net on a deer is some serious impressiveness.

But then so is 4 15/16ths of coon pecker.....

a book stone would be my dream animal, but i wouldnt pass up any animal that would make the book.

my mule deer feom this fall would make all time but he grew some junk but not enough to make all time non typical.

I am thinking huge 7x7 bull elk. With tons of mass and length.

Tomorrow it will be a Dall Sheep... The next day a monster typical 4x4 Mule Deer ...

Boy do I like this thread...

Mine would be a Bighorn.


ddj

Enough bone to qualify for B&C on the top of the head of any animal is very impressive. I like them all, and I'd be hard pressed to pick ONE that I would most like to have in the "book."

Quite a few years ago, I took a friend Shiras moose hunting in SW Montana. Opening morning he shot a bull that at that time was #4 in Montana and #26 in the All Time B&C records. When my friend entered his moose, he listed it with both his and my names, so my name is in the "book."

As for my own critters, I had two officially B&C scored, and my Musk ox at 111 4/8" and one of my Central Canadian Barren Ground Caribou at 373 4/8" do qualify for the All Time B&C records, but I have not entered them.

And Pat, I know your Idaho Mulie made book, how many of your other critters qualify? (If you run out of fingers to count on, you can also use your toes. )

Sitka Blacktail, typical. Can't buy one..

True. I was gonna say that on the mule deer as well,which is equally true.Like blacktails, the mule deer need country,age,genetics.You really cannot raise one.Seems they do not lend themselves to domestication like whitetails do...

Of course a free range whitetail that books is very tough as well,but there just seems to be more country, continent-wide, that grows them.You never know where a book whitetail will come from.

The NH typical whitetail record was killed 35 minutes from where I'm sitting,and grossed over 200.....freaked me out!

If I lived close to mule deer hunting, I'm sure mule deer would be #1 on my list. Love those bucks.

Yes, what we have available has a lot to do with what we like/want....I live a long ways from any mule deer,which are my favorites.This can be a hardship....

I've killed a number of critters big enough and even entered two... BUt I will not likely enter another. I have been there for two dall sheep that made the book and was a coin toss away from killing the bigger of the two. It was beyond incredible.

Was there for a goat that has been entered and I should get baby-sitting credit for that one.

My biggest Sitka blacktail is in the top 25 all-time and was entered. Just realized that happened 26 years ago...

Don, you're such a bullsh**er. There's no way that one goes 4 and 15/16ths.

For me, a typical 6-point elk.

Any species of sheep except Desert Bighorn. The country just doesnt do much for me and to me, the scenery makes the hunt that much better. Dall Sheep has to be top of the list though. My Great Grandpa and Great Grandma both killed one and hopefully Ill get the chance to one of these days. Caribou would be awesome too.

Probably elk for me, but I'd rather shoot a freak over a B&C.

I'd choose mule deer, either typical or non-typical, as long as it wasn't still in velvet. Bighorn sheep would be a close second.

I've already chimed in with a typical elk, but I'll add that if it had to be only one species, I'd eliminate a couple. All species of bear, mountain lion, muskox, mountain goat and Coues deer, simply because to the untrained eye they don't look that spectacular. In other words, the average hunter from most parts of the US wouldn't look at them and instantly recognize them as a whopper.

Don't know about making the book but a Bin Laden would look good on my wall.

Laffin!....that 25 million in the bank wouldnt hurt things either!

Being a soldier I'd give a huge +1 to you JohnMoses...wouldn't be too good for PR though if I was collecting the cape.

As far as more respectable creatures go I'd say a typical bull elk with main beam whale tails that kinda wave as they slope down gently and long enough to scratch his own ars would be what makes me quiver sitting here!

But being a true novice to this game I don't know if it will ever be a reasonably probable occurrance. I can dream though.

One book animal - I would have to say I'd take a bighorn. Chances are pretty slim that I'll ever draw the tag, but if I do I'm taking a one month leave of abscence from work and hunting until I find a 190"+

Don't know about Sitka Blacktails (I seriously doubt you can), but if you have enough bread you can buy a book muley. Buy a governors tag and pay an outfitter to find one and follow it every day until season starts. At which time you fly in and he will lead you to it and you can hopefully manage to hit it when he points it out to you.

Hell, $5K(ton of money to me) will buy access to some prime, private mulie country.
And rumor has it private ranch bucks get a little bigger and might even be easier to hunt....(grin)


A B&C public ground mule deer would be my ultimate 'trophy'.
That would be a true accomplishment, something that money just can't buy.

Man, talk about ugly lookin' back at ya... I think that would be one for a Euro-style mount if ever there was....

A local guy killed a 250's class mulie this season. Thing is a Monster! Don't see to many mulies like that come from the Kalispell area!

Funny.
I pondered this very question over and over in my mind for years.
I would walk around the big SCI, FNAWS, RMEF shows and ogle at the fantastic animals both mounted and in the albums of top guides & outfitters.
It always came back to the giant bears of the north.
Something that represents both intelligence AND the power and ability to turn the tables on the hunter.

On April 24th 2001 at 4:00 pm I was granted that wish deep into the interior of the famed Kodiak Island Alaska.
I'll never forget the star filled sky later that evening as I revelled in amazement of what I had done, chills covered my body and tears filled my eyes.
Not too often in a man's life can he say without hesitation that a dream has been fulfilled and the dream of a Boone & Crockett 10 foot plus Brown Bear with a perfect hide and white claws for this working stiff was all of that.



All of that said, the time I've spent with my son in the mountains and on beautiful rivers cannot be measured by any book and I would never trade that time for anything on Earth it is everything that I am.

Would have to be a rocky mountain big horn sheep, probably the most beautiful animal on the planet, and can be a really tough hunt. Got charged by one in the rocky mountain national park when I was in grad school, and ever since then I've wanted to put my tag on a full curl in a bad way. I've never really considered doing a full shoulder mountain on whitetail or elk, but that sheep would be over my mantle place till my children took it off the wall(or my wife's new husband unless I can fit a stipulation into my will that it stays up).

Just think, you could hang a pork chop necklace around his neck and pull on his whiskers whenever you had a bad day.

Post pics for the faithful back home under the name of Swampman700.

I'm betting Swampy would azz shoot quite a few Muslims before they got him.

Pretty awesome event right there..WOW!!

Nice dream. Nice bear.

White claws? Never heard of 'em before.

That is awesome Salmonella. I would have had to change my diaper if I just saw something like that.

Congrats!

That is not a normal "hunt"....there is no species on the face of the globe that can't be "booked" under those circumstances.

I do think B&C should list guides as well. Not taking anything away from the hunter, but there is no doubt that these guys help make alot of those kills happen on guided hunts.

JM

Old bears claws will usually be white...Salmonella's Kodiak bear is one of those you call once in a lifetime...GREAT bear and he should be commended for such an achievement...10 footers ain't in every alder patch...

Tough question, and with all the awesome species to pick from, it is tough.

I'd have to say a it is a near tie between a Mule Deer and a Whitetail. I love em both, and a truly huge bruiser of either species really get me going.

If I had my choice, I'd have to go with the Muley!

I disagree. No way in hell is an outfitter gonna keep tabs on a rain forest Sitka.

In my opnion it doesn't qualify as fair chase when game is spotted from air plane and the hunter is dropped in on it...might as well shoot the critter in a high fence situation...

How about from a boat?

Boat hunting = road hunting, if only obviously.................

I think a B&C Mule deer would mean the most to me considering I've spent more time hunting them (unsuccessfully, I might add) than anything else.

However I'd have to say the experience of hunting sheep would mean more than any B&C critter.

I definately plan to do that before I die.....

Only someone who has never boat hunted would try to compare the two.

Although it does not require much physical exertion, getting to the beach for a shot without spooking out game requires a good deal of boat handling skills. Not to mention navigating rocks in SE AK, and the possibly of being high and dry for the night.

Volumes could be written on what Jeff Olsen the dipshitt sperm waster don't know.

How bout horses?

I kinda doubt he can do it in lots of mule deer country either.

Lol... still road hunting. Tool around in a motorized vehicle, spot game, stop vehicle, shoot game.

Road hunting!

The boat-handling skills part I'll give you, but it's still road hunting. If a guy was road hunting on a logging road, where it was hard to get pulled off the road and you had to be real careful about closing the doors quietly.... lol... he's still road hunting.

I'm not saying that beach hunting is anything special, because it isn't. It's a fun way to hunt and see lots of deer, without busting your ass like you do on the mountain hunts. But, only the uninformed could compare it to road hunting.

I'm with Calvin on this.....messing with little boats in SE Alaska will make your hair turn grey....if you have hair......specially down around Murder Cove....

It is no way,shape, or manner a "road hunt"....unless you BTDT,it is hard to understand....that water goes from mill pond to murderous in no time.And you can't just pull up and beach anywhere....unless you want to get pounded into DNA on slick rocks.That country will kick your ass in a hurry.

Horses aren't motorized and at least around here, you don't see them on the roads. So no, that's not road hunting though it's obviously assisted hunting or whatever you want to call it.

SH, you are like a very simple, easy, yet endlessly amusing video game! Push button, watch eruption. Push button....

No different really than floating down a river and shooting a big bull moose standing on the side of the river. Not all hunts involve extreme physical exertion to find the game.

The real work on hunts like that is all in the preparation for the hunt in choosing a location, and the skill gained to be able to pull off such a hunt safely. The hunters who are consistently successful do more research into hunt areas and game movements than the average hunter could ever imagine.

Not really, you are just such a [bleep] idiot. Course I never said anything about shooting a critter on the beach, I just mentioned a boat.

So one motors along in a boat and spots 10 goats at 4000 foot elevation, goes ashore and humps up the hill and kills a goat the next day, so that's road hunting?

Damn shame someone erupted in the wrong hole, otherwise we wouldn't have to put up with you.

So who said it was easy? I didn't. And WTF does how easy it is to drive the rig have to do with it?!

Sheeit, I road-hunted (gasp!) grouse in my jeep in some chit that'd hurt/kill you if you made a mistake. Was I therefore not road hunting?

Up where we used to hunt elk the road to the top trailheads on Tower Mountain was flat terrifying when snow and ice covered. There was one stretch up there that makes my palms sweat just to think of it- and I'm a ski bum, driven many an icy road. This one was off-camber on a north face with DEATH two feet off your downhill tire. Always black ice. Terrifying. So a guy driving that with a rifle hanging out the window, looking for an elk isn't road hunting because it's dangerous?

Breathing ain't easy for you.

How about a row boat? Sail boat? Float tube? Fallopian tube?


Spot critters from motorized boat and climb 4000 feet to kill?

If a motorized boat or a motorized vehicle is used to spot game that has to be gotten to on foot, I don't see a problem with it.

In Jeff's world, you would need to ride a bike or paddle a raft to the point where the stalk would begin in order to make it "ethical".

Why do that?

Road hunting is rolling down the window and popping one with the heater on and engine running. Shooting from a buffeting boat with a shotgun can be tough. I know, as I have probably shot at a thousand ducks in rough water over my life time.

I don't know the ethics involved in shooting from a boat in AK, but I bet it's a site more difficult than shooting out of the window of a parked vehicle.

John, have you gone daft?

Who said anything about "ethical"? Did I say Alaskan boat hunting is unethical? Nope.

SH asked about boats. I showed clearly how it's equivelant to road hunting. Apparantly that popped some noggins..... lol...

I would have to go a typical or non- mulie with the caveat being a mountain deer instead of a plains deer. I have a plains mulie hunt planned for next year and any deer over 200 would thrill me though I realize the chance of my hair growing back is probably greater.

Close second would be an old, broomed bighorn that I may get a chance for once and only once.

On-topic.... guess I'd go elk, simply because a big elk is a gorgeous animal.

But I'm more a meat hunter than horn hunter. I'd rather eat younger animals... can't see getting too horned up over "needing" a book critter.

When people post pics of big critters I'll look at the horns, of course, but I'm more interested in the general condition of the animal.

Sounds like a good idea for everybody.

So you kill them to perform an autopsy.

From the road... grin...

One morning I rode by a boat(shored up) on a horse(gathering cows), made the horse run up a few stinger coulee's(like 300 times before) when we jumped two big deer.

Opening week and they actually stopped to look back.

I bailed, hit the ground and had a round chambered by the time they slowed to turn.

A stalk from the boat might have been a little sneakier.....(grin)

I like throwing dynamite from an airplane, but think I may be pushing the ethical envelope.

Sorry. Back on topic-

I guess I'd take a B&C Whitetail. Killed lots of really nice ones, but have never seen a B&C buck while hunting. Guided a few at Giles, but never pulled the trigger meeself.

I'd like to just get a chance at one. That would be cool.

JM

My problem with the "books" is that the pursuit of making same makes otherwise normal people get all geeky about G1's or symetry and so on. I find it distasteful. Kind of disrespectful to the animal in general IMHO. The animal is reduced to a measurement of (usually) it's HORNS for Pete's sake.

The physical maturity and body size of the buck I killed this year were more interesting to me than the horns... which are hanging from a tree in my woods...

Jeff, I have never measured any animal I've killed. If it looked good, I was satisfied.

However, I don't fault folks that do measure their animals. It's their kill, I say let 'em enjoy it however they please.

The animal is not reduced to a measurement, that's silly Jeff. If I was a deer that had been killed, I'd rather my rack be in the B&C record book that stuck in a tree in your back yard.

JM

The "book", like anything else is what you let it make you. There are a few guys here (and elsewhere) that kill impressive animals every year and seem to be just down to earth killing machines.

JM - Now we know why everyone says you've had some difficulties measuring up.

I haven't renewed my threats to kill you lately.

Consider it done.

Fingers will cover it!! Well most of them! I have been very fortunate in my hunting career to have taken three typical mule deer bucks that qualify for B&C, one bull elk, one mountain caribou, one barren ground caribou, two dall sheep, one whitetail buck(non-typical), and three antelope bucks. I've been at it awhile...and have had my fair share of dry spells. Like nine years between killing a mule deer buck.

I have had my eyes on one non-typical mule deer buck that was an absolute monster that would have gone at least 250" B&C...it was after the season closed in 2003. I had taken my best buck that same year that went 221 gross with a final of 199" typical B&C, the after season buck dwarfed it. I'll see that buck in my dreams until the day I die.

Now my week is complete.

Will catch up with the Fire later next week. Off to SHOT tomorrow.

Did you ever see him again Pat? What happened to him?

I went back and looked for his sheds the following spring with no luck....I figured he went back into Canada..He had a 200"+ frame with at least six extra points on each side with great mass. He wasnt super wide, maybe 30" outside.

Makes you a little ill to lose track of one that special.

I've had several bucks that I have seen in the off season that just disappeared on me.

In '96, I watched one over the late summer and early fall that looked like he belonged on a magazine cover. I had this deer's movement down pat and felt good about getting him on our bow opening weekend.

Last time I ever saw him 3 days before the season opened and he didn't look too good. Never saw him after that.

No one killed him or ran over him, as we would have heard about it. Maybe he got sick and died? I don't know.

JM

Awwww....BS.

I'd love to kill either a book bull or mulie buck, and I've never even put a tape to a horn. Like someone else said, those are once-in-a lifetime events and to have a book specimen on your wall, preferebly in a cabin in the mountains, would be a reminder of that hunt-of-a-lifetime forever.

You find this kind of thing "distasteful" and "disrespectful??"

Then click your mouse and go to the next thread, show some self-restraint. No one needs to hear your opinion on each and every subject here.

I find your comments distasteful and disrespectful.

Damnation.......seems like you see those kind of deer only once doesn't it?

Sorry about that.

Nah.

You missed the point; in fact to some extent you agreed with me. You say you've never put tape to horn. Me either. Sounds like you aren't geeked out over horns.......

I'll also point out that as far as I'm concerned the "hunt of a lifetime" isn't defined by whether the animal killed makes some silly "book". By that definition, if you drive out to the woods, get out of the truck, lollygag over to the bushes to take a crap then, mid-crap and 50 feet from the truck, you see and shoot a book buck.... it's "the hunt of a lifetime!". Since you say the horns define the hunt and all.

Guys can get as nerdy as they want about the details of horns and that's their business but, IMHO, it's pretty easy to make fun of. So I am.

+1 to that. Beautiful bear Salmonella.

If I could have a wish it would be a 8 point whitetail that goes 170" that is rare!!

Pat,
I want to be you when I grow up.

A straight 8 that makes book! Not a better lookin' whitetail than that!

I've killed 1 Shiras moose and 1 wolf that easily make the book, but really have no desire to enter them.
Mulies just do it for me. If I ever get a record one, I'll likely enter it just because.

Non typical mule deer

Yukon Moose... followed closely by a big mule deer.

I didn't miss any point. Go back and read the original post. If you don't have an answer for the question, then just STFU. You can do that, can't you?

Or go back and read some of the posts here, like Salmonella's. He's talking about a majestic animal, and the hunt of a lifetime. There's nothing disrespectful or "geeked out" about it.

Seriously, if you can read these posts, look at the photos, and then all you have to add is some sophomoric analogy about crapping in the bushes, don't tell me I'm missing the point.

Well,mother nature is interested in the body size, general condition of the animal,as well as the antler size, because,like male birds with bright plummage,large antler size and body are the outward manifestations of the desireable traits that females are drawn to in the natural selection process of breeding.....

......and if you ever had a chance to watch breeding mule deer, whitetails and elk, at work at it, you would see that a good many showdowns between competeing males are pre-empted simply by a demonstration of superior body and antler size alone.

So if Mother Nature seems to think that large bodies and antlers are a good indication of the virile qualities of an animal from the perspective of passing on good genes,and maintaining a healthy herd,I fail to see how any of this deomonstrates any "disrespect" to the animal when we pass up a good many lesser bucks, looking for a larger, special one that meets certain standards.

The "books" that you seem not to like(Boone&Crockett)were originally set up to honor exceptional animals, and ther was considerable debate about whether the hunter/owner of a record head should even be listed at all..but nevertheless the "book" exists to honor the animal; not the hunter,although some hunters do manage to get this backward.

Setting standards has other upsides as well.....lots of smaller,younger bucks(bulls),etc., with great potential, get to grow to full maturity; your hunt lasts longer(may take years), and sometimes ends with unpunched tags(pretty frequently).See Scenars post above about going 9 years without killing.I've gone home empty many times myself,when i could easily have killed,but chose not to.This is normal....I don't recall "disrespecting" anything.

Where the disrespect comes in is when a guy dumps a splendid buck and winds up "disapointed" with the animal, treats it contemptuously because it did not "measure up" somehow....The hunter is delusional and insecure enough to believe his ego is somehow bruised or enhanced because of what he shot.I have seen this happen and it is not pretty.

I agree that sometimes trophy hunting can go "too far" with some people,that does not mean that it is in general an inherently "bad thing", or that it shows any disrespect toward other animals.

Meat hunter or trophy hunter, we all are setting a "standard" when we pull the trigger;both approaches are "good" and play a vital part in modern game management.

So, when hunters get "geeky" over horn formation, length of G2's,mass, etc, they are talking about known "standards" as a basis for comparing animals;a common language that allows others experienced in such matters to have a valid basis for knowing, generally, what kind of buck we are talking about;what the potential is in the area.

This is important lingo for someone trying to determine where to go on the hunt of a "lifetime",before traveling great distance, and at great expense.

Since you have only hunted once out of state,Jeff,have done no trophy hunting at all,you may not understand all of this;but clearly it has crossed your mind because you are planning to draw that special unit....as a suggestion you should learn something about getting "geeky" over mule deer antler development,and the differences between a truly mature buck and an oversized youngster, so that you don't blow that rare tag on a promising young buck, and rob that gene pool of some of its' potential.

Let me suggest that you are showing no "disrespect";the real disrespect will be for you to show up in that unit unable to know the difference between "mature" or "immature",older or younger..;nor will the animal be reduced to merely the measurement of what is on his head.

If this happens it will be your fault and no one else's...big mature bucks have bodies too,and produce lots of meat, frequently more flavorful and having greater character than young animals.Go kill some and find out....


... just a suggestion

A big 8pt whitetail is special. I had the opportunity to kill one with a good buddy this year that went mid 160's with 2 little kickers. Main frame 8 was 160" with a broken browtine on the right. Would have gone about 165" as an 8. Impressive deer to say the least. Another 5-10" is almost unimaginable to me. I can't believe that I'll ever kill or participate in the kill of another one.
Lee

It would be a tie between a desert bighorn and a muley.

Bob, Very articulate....and very "spot on".

Some of the very best wild meat I've ever eaten was from old mule deer bucks 6 1/2 years old or older taken before the rut. In fact I have one of those in my freezer right now along with a nice bull elk and three antelope....when I open the freezer I'm reaching for packages of mule deer meat! It's that good!

Sam and Scott;
How about both at the same time?

Seeing as how others have wandered off the garden path a bit here and there, hopefully I won't be banned for this wee hunting tale.

My ex-boss used to guide on the Peace and some of it's tributaries in northern Alberta. In the winter and off season he manufactured jet boats, from what I gathered very good and very fast jet boats.

His hunting stories were always wonderfully well told, but one I recall most often was when he was giving us an example of someone always being a bit faster/better than you, no matter how fast/good you think you are.

He was moving gear to a camp one fine morning, going along at a very brisk rate in his jet boat when he heard a horrendous roar behind him. He looked back to see another outfitter from up the river a bit closing on him quickly in a very large jet boat.

Up until that day he'd heard about this particular boat but hadn't seen it. It had been custom made for this fellow and from my understanding had a drop down ramp on the front of it, like a landing craft might have, to facilitate moving this chap's string of pack and saddle horses....

So it came to pass on this bright day that my boss was passed by a boat driven by a grinning fellow wearing a cowboy hat - with two saddle horses standing in the front of the boat, squinting in the wind.

I should add that this fellow was a raconteur of epic proportions and there was indeed no photographic evidence such a boat existed. Hopefully though I'll be excused if I continue to picture those teary eyed mountain horses in the bow of a twin V8 powered jet boat, attaining speeds they never thought possible - at least on water.

To the OP, thanks for the thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed it and all the responses.

For me it would be a mule deer, either typical or non wouldn't matter a wit. In fact, I'd be happy just to see one someday.

Regards,
Dwayne

Your perspective is always so wonderfully narrow.

Id use a Apache helicopter if it were legal.
And based on hunting deer in NW Ontario(shooting out of boat isnt legal) using boats to get from one place to the next, I think your odds of shooting a trophy deer out of a boat are slim to nill.
An Apache on the other hand might just be the ticket....

Not to be pissy, but it burns me when others try to impose their ethics on another guy. Kind of like the guys that spout off on how more sporting bow hunting is when the have wounded a more than a few using a bow.

Dwayne, that's a great story as usual.

As far as "wandering," you're right, this is a great thread and my apologies to the OP for my part in the wandering, and the less-than-civil tone of my posts.

Thanks Pat!

I have venison marinating right now from the buck I killed this year...because I cannot stay ahead of the mob that shows up here when I cook it.....

And the head is at the taxidermist....I passed a few bucks before I killed him.

Without a doubt, it'd be a Dall Sheep. If for no other reason, than the beautiful, wild country I'd be in when I pulled the trigger.

Salmonella, unbelieveable bear!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!

Looks like mule deer might be winning. Add me to the list.
I killed a deer in the strip in 1996 that might make the book.Took him to tucson once to have measured and there wasn't an official scorer at the place i was told and they didn't know one so ended up taking him to SCI at the museum and they said he would be # 13 non-typical in their book. It would have cost around $100 to join,have him entered,etc so i didn't mess with it. How different are the scoring systems[sci and b&c]? I guess is doesn't matter much i haven't done anything about it for 15 years.
It took me thirty years to draw an antelope tag and i had a blast and killed a good one. I've killed a couple good bull elk{nothing better than hunting in elk country].
Nothing trips my trigger or boils my blood faster than a good mule deer. Whether its a big desert or a strip deer they didn't get that way by being dumb. I've seen some killed but seen a lot more get away . Still have nightmares about a huge typical i missed in the strip[he gets bigger every year]. A 270 loaded cartridge filled about 3/4 of his track.
Fred

Yeah, but if they did that they would probably also want to list who plowed up the food plot, or who filled the feeder, or who put out the salt blocks, or etc.

I'll take a B&C Dall sheep with a Sitka Blacktail as a backup.
I'm pretty sure the odds are good that I'll get that book Sitka one of the these days but the Dall sheep is gonna be a booger.....

I don't know B&C rules, so maybe someone like Bob could comment, but I thought the things you mentioned would preclude a B&C listing? Which is one of the things I like about B&C.

Seems like B&C has given themselves, and the hunters who want list critters, a bit of latitude. IMO, lots of wiggle room in "improper advantage"...

That would only bother a few uneducated idiots who don't understand the role a good guide can play.

No names at all would be better - it is all about the animal after all.

***And I have 4 animals that would be in the running - never officially scored and I couldn't care less.

I'd be in for a gigantasaurus typical elk, followed closely by the same in Whitetail version.

I've hunted from a canoe for WT's - and I guarantee it ain't a walk in the park. A canoe gets you into some good areas that foot travel and animal recovery are a bitch at best, impossible the norm. Ever pack/drag a deer through a swamp? For a couple of miles? You only need to do it once before you figure out the canoe is a better idear.

Sometimes I wonder if B&C was invented as a means to find out where others were killing all the big animals..

If I had my own awards program, I'd just have the state where the animal was killed. Name of the hunter. Name of the Guide (if guided), and land status of where it was killed. (public or private)

I'd be pissed if I had a honey hole, and some guy lucked onto my spot, killed a booner, and then published the location of my honey hole in the B&C record book.

Calvin, Thats one of the reasons why I've only entered one mule deer. Believe it or not I still get an occasional phone call asking about where exactly I killed that buck....20 years later!

Truthfully I have taken quite a few great animals that wouldnt come close to making the record book...and many of those mean as much or more to me than B&C qualifiers I've taken.

Someday I would love to kill a 21" black bear...here in Montana. Probably the rarest and hardest to collect of the 10 big game species we have here. Over the years I've killed many old boars that made 19"+ but never a 20", let alone add another inch!! There has been only a handful of 21" blackies taken in Montana. It probably wont happen for me, but it sure is fun to dream about!

I know some guys in my area who don't enter some giant Sitka Blacktails all because of the "specific location" part of entering it into the book.

For some reason, a B&C scoring western yukon moose is on my mind lately...

You really don't have to be that specific with B&C (or P&Y) ... just take a look at the locations in the B&C books.

Most entries from SE Alaska list just the Island, some list the Bay or the series of Bays or River drainage ....

If you want to go specific all you have to do is join Garth Carter's Huntin Fool.
"We cover the entire Western United States, with our information you won�t miss an opportunity. Each month features all the information you will need to fill out big game applications and choose units that exactly fit your hunting style and goals. You will have detailed information such as: kill statistics, hunt deadlines, hunt dates, number of preference points needed to draw, kill success for the past 1 to 5 years, odds of drawing for the past 5 years, size of animals taken unit by unit, and comments about each unit."

No....I doubt it...North America was a different place back when B&C came into being....it was considered more of a conservation organization back then,Human tendencies to competitiveness made it a Holy Grail for people wanting to make "the Book" in the post war era.

But hardcore guys do use it to give themselves a notion of general trends..,ie show where good genes are located. From there it becomes a question of correlating info to modern conditions.But still there is good info in there.

Even before the Internet, news of hot spots traveled fast,and by the time you found out about a good spot or area, it was already "hot" and competition stiff.

But sometimes,good areas get "forgotten",and can be revisited.

A good idea is to research good areas...then go somewhere else...

I admit that I "geek out" over big animals and their headgear.

One for me Pat would be a black bear taken in Montana that would break 21". If I couldn't have that then a non typ Coues would do it 4 me. Oddly enough, the Coues is the only non typ that really perks my fancy.

Shot a booner rockchuck once, should have it officially scored one of these days..

Dober

Me,too.. ..it's a hoot just to see them,because they are very rare.

They are different in demeanor and presence from the average animal...and how they behave....just that much smarter,and sharper....you are generally looking at something that has never made a mistake when it counted...his whole life.

Feeders, salt blocks, etc. are normally used with high fences, and high fenced animals don't qualify.

I'd pick a big gnarly Muley buck for my B&C critter.

I've noticed that "most" hunters who poo-poo B&C records and trophy hunting in general, usually say that they don't agree with B&C organization, records programs, scoring methods, hype and ethics of those that do/have - and often claim that they have taken several that would make it if they had them officially measured, but they won't - for their altruistic reasons.

Personally, I don't enter anything into P&Y anymore, because any animal without milk on its lips can qualify. B&C is a great organization in my opinion.

Feeders and salt blocks, etc are also used in lots of non high fence scenarios as well. Does B&C allow the entry of a critter shot over a feeder/salt block in a state that allows it? I know some that would consider that an "improper advantage". IMO, thats the wiggle room part...

If I could only pick one, I would have to say typical elk. They are very impressive to me and sorta part of my namesake. However, I am fully aware that the chances of me ever taking a BC qualifying critter is quite small. But, I do like to keep trying...

Personally, I have no problem with B&C. That said, the only reason I care about score is that it's a quanitifiable measure of how big the animal was (gross is all that I really care about). If a guy wants to devote his life to having his name in the book a lot, then more power to him. You are an anomoly among people with a lot of book animals, however. Most of those in the book several times didn't find those animals on their own and take them without paying lots of money to someone to help them out. This is the only problem I have with the process, it has become more a battle of who has the most money. Not so much who is the best at what they do. Now I guess if you have the money to do it that's great, I just don't think that those who do it on their own and those who paid are on equal footing. As to whether the four animals I mentioned would officially make the book - maybe, maybe not, I wouldn't be at all disappointed if they didn't and will likely never have any of them measured. They were nice animals and I worked hard to get em.

Please post a picture of that buck! I would love to see it!

DL

Yup, me too, and the small chance of qualifying is what makes it an accomplishment.

I don't think I've ever met anybody that actually goes hunting in hopes of putting their name in fine print among tens of thousands of others. I suppose some might.. but that's weird.

I held a MT bighorn ram taken this year in MT, just measured last week.. 204 6/8 net.

Dont know if I could narrow it down to one, but high on the list would be mountain caribou and mule deer.

As far as B&C goes, its a great organization and they do a wonderful job of documenting important data in regard to wildlife. Lots of research is funded by B&C, etc. a worthy organization that is about much more than just record keeping.

I've entered one animal and will enter any more that I am fortunate enough to take.

Friend of mine found the unofficial #4 or #5 non-typical elk this fall 460" or so... In northern MN!! Pretty massive knarly looking thing, but not that wide. They have it up on the B&C website as the Minnesota Giant. Found it while road hunting for deer!

Ranger1, I think I saw that elk on the B&C website, under the trophy watch page. The ram I mentioned was also on there. That elk is something else!

More pics of that monster Minnesota bull.

As much as I'd also like a bighorn sheep, there hasn't been a ram alive on earth that has the wow factor of that elk.

That is impresive to say the least.

Stone sheep if someone else is picking up the tab. I might luck on to a BC Mulie but the Stone keeps getting higher and I love the sheep.

I'll see if i can. I don't have any digital pictures of him so if you want pm me your email and i'll take one of the mount and send it to you.
Thanks, Fred

PM sent

Drummond