Which one is the most versatile.Capable of taking squirrels and grizz.The best all around cartridge for hunting in north america.The most adaptable.Just want to hear some opinions.My vote goes to the 300 weatherby mag.

I would have to go with a 338 win. ,and I don't even own one.

30-06 without a doubt...

You said game so I'm assuming most anything...

From coyotes to GRIZZLY the .30-06 has done it all...

From 110 grains to 220 grains the '06 can be loaded up for a pile of situations...

JY Jones wrote a book about it... http://www.jyjones.com/oneman.html

30-06.

.30-06 Springfield.

Rick

There's nothing the 300 Weatherby can do that the 300 RUM can't do better for less money. Personally I'd can't imagine limiting myself to just one rifle and can't say I've ever pondered the question as to which would suit the most needs. I like em' all for different reasons and situations.

Since you mentioned "grizzly," then " The Alaskan" is the all around cartridge. The .300WM is there somewhere, and farther back the .30-06, but the .338WM is king with bullets from 250-grain to 300.

The boring and wonderful .30-'06. A simple change of bullet adapts it to any type of North American big game.

Interestingly, you don't hear anything about the .30-'06 as good choice for Aftrican plains game. Trust me, it is simply superb. I've harvested well over fifty African critters with it, from the lowly grey duiker to a 2,361 pound bull eland. One decently-placed shot with a 180-grain Nosler Partition or Hornady Interlocked does the job perfectly.

Steve

300win mag

358 norma

I know the 300 rum can do better than the weatherby,but are you sure its cheaper?I have to say though that if I could only use one gun I would go crazy.I like having unique guns that are special for their work.It was just kinda a fun question.I knew the 30-06 would come up.I too love it.....but its boring...............and wonderful and cheap ammo makes it all that much better!

C'mon guys. The question wasn't what is the "classic" Best NA game cartridge..... I've owned a couple 06's and liked them both a bunch, but if a guy was starting with nothing, I can't believe that the 30-06 would be the best choice! There are simply too many "better" cartridges out there.

IF I were limited to one "all around" rifle today, I'd probably go for one of the .300 short mags. The main reason for going the .308 cal route is for those stated above -- huge variety of bullet options.

Part of the equation would also be "where/what do I hunt the most." Depending on that, the answer could vary some as about any decent deer/elk cartridge could handle a once in a lifetime moose or large bear with a good bullet and good shot placement. If you're going to weigh each individual game animal equally, I might opt for something a bit bigger like a 338 WM. I certainly wouldn't feel too terribly handicapped having to shoot my 338 ultra for the rest of my life either!

Well if going for griz atleast a 30-06 but my choice is 308 norma magnum but is a little expensive for ammo i currently pay 2.25 per round for factory ammo but i'm starting to reload so this price will go down

I prefer the .30-'06 as well as the others. If you go hunting anywhere in NA you will find lots of ammo for the old '06.

If anything the design and appearance in the marketplace of the super premium bullets has made it a better choice. If you look at the numbers and compare with data from 100 years ago, you will see that the '06 is now a .300 Magnum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Plus, every kind of rifle you might want to use comes in '06.

jim

I believe I could be happy with the 270 Win, due to the "very good" bullet choices available, but, would choose the 300 Win Mag, due to heavier bullet choices, should a hunt for the big bears become a reality.

See below, capt david <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think the 30 caliber are the most versatile.From 100 to 220 grain bullets can cover a lot of game.The 06 is great with everything,untill the heaviest bullets come along,then you really need one of the 300 mags.

30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelen, or 8mm-06. IMO, the -06 case give about the most thump on the shootee still having an acceptable (to most people) thump on the shooter in a 7-8lb rifle. Top it with a 2.5x fixed or 2-7x (7x for the varmits).

30-06 is everywhere. The 338 puts the same SD bullet in a heavier, bigger bullet with a better/same BC. The 35 Whelen is roughly the same as the 338-06 (not quite as flat whoopied do) and it can shoot 357 handgun bullets for squirrels and other small edibles. The other two "require" you to cast bullets.

Has to be the .375H&H....

338 Win. Mag.

Love my 375 H&H but will go with the 30/06.

300 Wby.

22lr

ok seriously, I'd have to say 257 Bob because it's my favorite at the moment.

Pull out the big bears and I would say any of the .30 Mags, with brownies part of the equation a 338 Win or 340 WBY would be tough to beat. But I guess the real answer is there is no perfect all around cartridge. You NEED to have them all! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'd have to say .30-06, maybe a .300 Winny. I'd bet you'd also find lots of people saying .30-30 though, too.

Here's my take on this.
Chances are I'd be shooting about a thousand squirrels to every Grizz I "might" be encountering, so the cartridge would have to be able to be down loaded easily. I don't see that happening very well with the big belted cases. Also, anything for squirrels would require a head shot. The rifle would have to be very comfortable to shoot accurately. Maybe you guys can do that with a .300 Rum, but I couldn't. So, I'd go with something on a 30-06 or .308 case, and at least a 7mm bullet or .270 (that hurt to say) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. That gets me to the 7mm-08 Rem, .308 Win, .338-.308, .358 Win, .270 Win, .280 Rem, .30-06, .338-06, 8mm-06, .35 Whelen. I'd have a hard time picking just one, but my .338-06 has been getting the nod more often than anything else, so I guess that would have to be it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

30-06. tom

Just like eating a bowl of vanilla ice cream and washing it down with a glass of luke warm tap water.... the .30-06. Plain as plain can be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How about the 300 Ultra Mag.....does all that too...?

MC

marlin,

My 300RUM is a true thumper. I have taken elk, moose and mtn goat with it. Ain't none of them went very far after getting hit with it.

The goat went the fartherest, only because it fell from an almost vertical mtn. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Still, I think the 300 Win is the best all arounder, only because most people could not handle the recoil of the 300 RUM, and the 300 Win can be made into a lighter package without too much punishment from recoil.

Tony

35 Whelen. Cast bullets for small game and varmints, great for deer with mid-range loads, and capable of even the nasty stuff, the bison meat hunt, etc. JMO, Dutch.

oh my, the 'banjo back for another heapin' helpin' o' trollvaltine.
from squirrel to grizzly?
sounds an awful lot like "from moose on down to sqwill."
anybody remember that line from other forums?

I'd probably pick the 300 win mag, and never look back, or the 300 weatherby mag. Thank god I am not limited to just one rifle, as I prefer the 7mm Rem Mag for mule deer on down, and some of my lesser cartridges. The 06 is a good one, but I tired of it years ago. Why? Because everyone seemed to have one, I just like doing different things.

Nowadays, gun writers tell you you need a cannon to bear hunt, when I was a kid in the early 60 s there wasnt anything the 300 win mag couldnt handle. Suddenly, our bear are alot tougher, .................

See what you started, this is like asking,"who got the best kid". Your handle reminds me of a Nashville joke.

What's the difference between a banjo and an onion? Nobody cries when you cut up a banjo.

Fish280,I didnt get that from any other post.I just made it up on the top of my head.Squirrels and grizz are worlds apart and are what most people think of when they think of small game or dangerous game.The question was what can do it all.But even if I did,who cares.Does it bother you that much that I said two words that the other guy said.And what is a sqwill anyway?Was the guy from New Jersey or something? "Banjo back for another heapin' helpin' o' trollvaltine." OMG!!!That kinda sound like the theme song from the beverly hillbillies!Im gonna call Earl Scruggs on you for plagerizing his song!O my heart is about to stop from this pressure!!The funny thing is,you never answered my question.

Fish 280,I see you an Alabama boy.Whats wrong with you?You a yank that moved to Alabama or you just dont like banjos?I personally think its funny anybody could make fun of a banjo.It doesnt bother me when a yank does it ,they dont know any better ,but a guy from Alabama?I smell something FISHY.

The .35 Whelen or my 8mm-06 Ackley Imp.

Just plain 338 WIN

I could live with the '06, and did for a few years, but after taking 9 animals with the 300wsm I'd have to say I like it a little better.

.30-06

There is a very good reason why "everybody has one" - from Alaska to Florida and from Maine to S. california. That's the USA-centric point of view. We should not be so close minded and forget the rest of the Americans <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> and so should add the .303 British and the .30-30.

If you want to conceptualize, the Best North American Game Cartridge throws a 150 to 180 grain bullet of .308 or .312 diameter from 2400 to about 2900 fps. Such a cartridge has slain every kind of beast this continent has to offer.

This is not conjecture, this is historical record. A gazillion hunters hunting for well over a century might be wrong, but I doubt it.

trollvaltine, trollvaltine, trollvaltine.

I wish I could drink from the well of Africa.The Arctic circle huh?Good luck,Id love to do that one day.What will you be hunting for?

I would say that any 7mm Mag (Namely the Remington) is by far the most versatile cartridge for NA hunting. 120 grain bullets flying straight and long at speeds and trajectories comparable to any 257 Magnum. 140-150-160 that will take down any game from 300-800 lbs easily at extreme distance. 175 grain bullets with higher SD than .308s and pushing them at the same speeds as most 30 mags with 180 grainers.

The 30-06, by comparison, does not offer that type of versatility no matter how you slice it. Also, the 7mm Mags are pretty much the African plains game rifle standard for animals under 1,000 lbs.

Fish,whatever you say.This is prime entertainment.You say trollvaltine,I say Yankvaltine.Im kidding,I dont have anything against northerners,just Yanks(liberal northerners)And scallywags(liberal Southerners) Anyway,why would anyone choose a 30-06 besides from it being cheap and available?With a 300Rum or weatherby,you can always load down to 30-06 performance and you can push the big bullets well.With a 30-06,your limited to good performance with small bullets.They're both 30 calibers,one can do everything better.Why go with the handicapped one?I love the 30-06,I really do.Its a true hunting staple,but the 300 mags do everything better.Whether you think the extra power of the 300's are neccesary or not,they do everything better.

30-06 Springfield

30-06 is the obvious correct answer. I'm just glad that I can afford to own more than one rifle and don't have to be stuck with a Jack-of-all-trades and Master of none type rifle.
Read Thomson Whelens book on the rifle, he has some very interesting stories of hiking into the back woods and living off the land with his 30-06. He spent a lot of time developing light cast bullet loads that would at shorter distances shoot at the same sight settings he used for larger game.
Unfortunately with our seasons and restricted land use, these longer forays into the wilderness are nowhere near as possible as they were in Whelen's time. Since our hunts now tend to be more specialized should our rifles also be?.........DJ

Now, this is totally off-topic but interesting -- does that mean that if I'm a northerner, but conservative, I'm not a Yankee? (Assuming I'm not a professional baseball player, either.)

Now what if I'm a conservative ex-New Yorker living in Virginia? This could get complicated but my whole identity's at stake. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

John

30-06?

Is that a long .308 Win or something?

Or a skinny 35 Whelen?

Anyway, I choose the 308 or 35 whelen.

dww

If your a conservative that has never played professional baseball born and raised above the mason dixon line,your a Northerner,but may still get treated a bit Yankeeish if you have a heavy northern accent.If your a complete liberal that has never played professional baseball,born and raised above the mason dixon line,your're a bluebellied yank and you will be treated like one in the South.If you are a complete liberal born and raised below the mason dixon,your a scallywag, so expect to get beat up in the South.If you're a conservative ex-new yorker that has never played professional baseball and you live in Virginia,you wont be treated bad,but if you have an accent someone may poke a joke at you and if you try to say"Upstate",theyl just argue that all of New York is a city with skyscrapers.Dont get to affended,we do this on purpose.If you are a liberal that lives above the mason dixon that is a member of the Yankee professional baseball team,dont go outside,people that proudly call themselves yankees generaly dont live in the South for very long.Best things for you to do to live peacefully in Virginia are the following:Admit that all new york has sky scrapers,never say back in new york we did...........,never complain about the humidity or skeeters,refer to all soft drinks as coke,be an avid conservative,NEVER EVER FAKE A SOUTHERN ACCENT,dont call anyone a redneck if you are not in a fast car,never say that you like oatmeal more than grits,never order vodka instead of bourbon,never insult the state of Virginia,never call the Yankee Invasion the Civil War,dont try to make anybody believe that Lincoln was a great man that freed the slaves,dont make fun of Elvis,dont call country music Bluegrass,dont make fun of anybodys truck,dont order salmon instead of fried catfish,never say theres too much butter on anything,eat all the fat on your steak,never ask if a restraunt has anything that isnt fried,dont wear shoes in the summer,never be negative about Virginia.And if you really want to be well off,when your wife has a handfull of Yankee Candles at the store,say loudly,"We dont buy Yankee candles.Do they have another brand?"

Well, If I was subsistence hunting and dealing with grizzlies occasionally, the Swede 6,5x55 would do me fine.
but the 30.06 would be my one rifle choice.Thankfully, I can run out the door with two rifles and ammo..:)

I don't own a .308, but have shot one..Great caliber...but I like the .300 Savage better..:)

Do have a 30.06 and do like shooting it, but that's alot of powder to fill a cook pot..

Sold the .270 Win...and it was a shooter too.

Like the .375 H&H but that is just not a cook pot small game cartridge..:)
Some of the newer 30 cal cartridges are just foreign to me so can't comment..They sell the .300 RUM at Western Auto in Delta Junction AK?..:) jim

Please! How much deader than a 30-06 can a 300mag make a 300lb buck? Or even a 270/308/7mm-08/7x57? How about shots per pound (that'd be economy)? As a 7lb rifle? Antelope? Except for big bears and elk the 300mags are extra pounds for not much extra. If you need more than a 30-06, up the caliber (338 or 35).

These kind of threads are never practical. Its like asking "Who makes the best PU truck?" or "Who is the best looking woman out there?"

MtnHtr

i rest my case on the feeding of trollvaltine to trolls.

Mtn Hunter, Easy...GMC's and Ingrid Bergman.

BP...

Thats true for deer.There are way too many people overgunning deer,but I was talking about Kodiak bears and the rest of the big stuff.I have killed a bear once, just a black bear,and I was deer hunting with a friend.You never feel overgunned when a big bear is charging you.Mothers with cubs can be extremely protective as was my bear.I saw that bear through the brush.I expected it to run away,but instead it stood up and kinda licked/sniffed the air.It made a weird noise and walked through the brush to my side.It was about 35 feet away.I had taken the saftey off the scoped 30-06 when I saw she had cubs(I told you I liked them!).The bear charged and filled up the whole freakin scope.I missed the first shot,but hit her three times after that.I now carry my new S&W 500 along with my scoped 30-06(the 500 does not wear a scope).I had to calm myself down a bit so I didnt miss anymore ,but I would have loved to have had a 300Rum at that time .30-06 can do it and did it for me,but My shot angles were not ideal,and my shots had to penetrate a lot of bone and fat,plus I didnt make the best shots since I had a 400 pound mother charging me.(imagine a bad case of buck fever)I feel the 300Rum could have put that bear down easier.I dont really care what paper can prove,its better to be safe than sorry.Then again,the bear was charging me and not relaxed and eating like it might be when your hunting them,so maybe the adrenaline helped that SOB live little longer.I wouldnt be uncomfortable with a 30-06 bear hunting,but would like something with a little more punch.Its not legal to kill bears with cubs I was told,but I got away with it since its also not legal for bears to kill people!!!Most people say that black bears arent ever agressive.....the black bears dont seem to know that.LOL.And by the way fish280,no my story wasnt a bunch of bs.I can send you a picture of that bear/conversation starter.(Its hanging on my wall)

Good grief yall are a bunch of idiots!Ford makes the best pickup!!LOL

bearskins can be bought at yard sales. (grin)

But did I tell you that the bear ripped my arm off?I can send you a picture of that!LOL

300 shamu, Ford and Gisele Bundchen (sp?)! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Geez, that was easy and if you don't agree -- piss on ya! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I vote John Deere! LOL

I hunt in grizzly country and, on ocassion, run into the buggers. I've generally carried a 308, 30-06, 300 WSM or 338 WM and would be confident with any of them on a grizz. Actually, since most grizz encounters are up-close and personal I'd actually prefer the added magaziner capacity (five rounds vs. three) of the 30-06 over the others.

I have an aquaintance that guides in prime grizz country. He carries a 30-06 and used it to fend off a sow attack several years back... she had hold of him in the back and he beat her off with the butt of his 06'... don't tell him the 06'doesn't work on grizz... heck, he didn't have to fire a round with his! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regardless, as an all-rounder I don't think you can beat the 30-06 or one of the 300 Mag's... just depends on the size and weight rifle you're interested in carrying.

Truck: Toyota
Girl: My Wife... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well like I said the 06 can be used,but I think Id rather have a 300rum so that I dont get my back ripped up in the first place.

FYI (regaring your comment) he was not hunting grizzly... there's no grizz hunt in MT... we deal with them while hunting elk, usually up close.

oops!I forgot to put the little faces after that.I was just kidding <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Brad beat me to it, though I don't have the Toyota yet -- maybe my extra .30-06 makes up for it.

JF

Besides hunting and shooting, hunters and gunners never have so much fun as when they are arguing about rifles, calibers and who made the longest shot. This is a hell of a fun forum. 30-o6

Dixiebanjo,

Thanks for explaining the finer points, can always use it although I've now been in Virginia 17 years ... and though I don't have an accent I'd probably score low enough on the rest of your checklist that I'd best let it drop for my own good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

John

Your welcome John.If you've lived here for 17 years,youl prolly be ok.Remember...........grits..........fat..........coke. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dixie... I was suprised by your comment as I didn't take you for the rude sort... thank's for clearing that up!!

(PS, edited "stupid" out of my remarks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

John, funny, I won't own a firearm with "Made In Japan" stamped anywhere on it but won't own anything other than Japanese vehicles... go figure.

Actually Brad ,I can be surprisingly rude!I just got myself into a big mess ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> ) because Im a big mouth sometimes! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Its kind of funny to see that hunters from Alaska pick .300's and up as all around guns, while just a very few hunters from the lower-48 pick the .300's and .338's. One thing for sure: When you see an Alaska interior grizzly or a coastal brown (even at a distance) you still feel you want a bigger gun in your hands. The .30-06 is popular up here as a all around cartridge (for moose, caribou, and black bear hunting), but when people go grizzly hunting, the .30-06, .7mm, and so on usually stays in the cabinet. In fact, even the .338WM and the .375 H&H feel small in one's hand.

I have seen very large interior grizzly while moose hunting, and someone I know killed a 9' 4" bear a few years ago. He was looking for a larger one he had seen, and this one charged him. He shot it with his .375 H&H during the charge. That's why I prefer at least a .338WM with 250-grain to 275-grain A-Frame bullets (or 300-grain Woodleigh). If my gun was a .375 H&H, the smallest bullet I would use would weight 300 grains. But real bear guns start with the .416 caliber.

For the lower-48, I imagine any of the guns you have talked about are fine as "all around," but to hunt "grizzly," you guys can use such guns if you want. I am a big chicken when it comes to Alaska bears, so I use a bigger gun. I want a rifle/bullet combination that is capable of breaking both shoulder bones on grizzly, and at least one shoulder bone plus reaching the vitals or pass through on a coastal brown. One can "hunt" grizzly with any of the cartridges mentioned here, but a grizzly/brown at close range is another story.

What he said! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I've had a couple of Smith & Wesson 1000 shotguns -- darn good guns except for the recoil buffers that sometimes melt.

My current truck is a Mazda -- made in a Ford plant in New Jersey so I guess it's "naturalized Japanese." But with 165,000 on it I am thinking I'd better save my pennies...

John

Im the opposite.Youl never see me in a foreign truck, but I like some of the Howa's and the Weatherby's.

Ok, so which is it, squirrel to Grizz or the above? There's a big difference in your criteria.

Teeder,I said NORTH AMERICAN GAME.I also didnt say,moose,elk,deer,antelope,hog,buffalo,musk ox,javelina,bobcat,fox,coyote or armadillo.But since this is about NA game,it covers them all.

I guess my confusion came from the fact that you state " North American game, but most of what I see addresses big game only.
If I hunt something, it's for a purpose such as meat or hide (with the exception of woodchucks). So when I see squirrels or fox on the list, I have a hard time thinking a .300 Roy is more appropriate than a .308 or .30-06 which can be loaded down much easier than a big mag. Loaded to their full potential they will take any game on the continent too.
Maybe I'm being too logical about this, and you're just trying to justify the need of a .300 mag to yourself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
In which case, go for it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You should have a .378 Roy too. You never know when those squirrles might charge. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Because of my experience with a 400 pound black bear(which really isnt big) not going down quickly at close range and taking 3 rounds of 30-06 in the lungs,I like more firepower.Since the 30-06 and 300 Rum shoot the same sized bullets,the only thing different is more performance and a lot more cost with the 300Rum.I would go with the 30-378,but I dont feel like selling my house to buy ammo,and getting a new barrel every 500 rounds does not sound appealing to me.Get it right Teeder,Im trying to justify a 300 ULTRA MAG.But really,I dont carry it to protect me from bears,elephants,or runaway semi-trucks,those squirrles can be down right vicious!I had one attack me once and the 300win just couldnt put it down.Thats why I want the 300 RUM.............RUM..........RUM.......sounds like a traveling song........300 bottles of RUM on the wall,300 bottles of RUM............. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dixie, I wouln't base an opinion about any cartridge on one experience... the bear could easily have acted the same if hit with a 375 H&H... critter's are funny that way...

DixieBanjo, Black bears die relatively easily compared to even a whitetial 120# doe.
I've killed many(over 20) with longbow or .300 Savage.
I don't think the majority of game from squirrels to moose/elk/bear need more firepower, the killing takes better hunting skills, and better shot placement...with good follow up and woodcraft-knowlege of the gane and the country.

Not talking about anchoring dangerous, angry, agressive critters at close range, just killing them to eat..which is about 99.5% of what hunters want to do in this continent..jim

Well,I did hit it in the lungs,so theres your shot placement.But about how easily they die.........Virginia bears must be hardier that the west coast bears.You've killed 20,Ive killed 1.But the one I killed didnt die too easily.I also wasnt hunting them,I was protecting myself.Maybe that has something to do with it.Ive killed hogs that were nervous because they smelled blood.They dont stop moving as quick as the unsuspecting ones.Im not a scientist,thats just my experience.But the squirrels are a different story.............the 300RUM is the smallest I would go with for saftey reasons.There vicious little rats!

OK then, Take one down and pass it around!
That'll warm up the old Campfire! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Honestly, I think you'ld be better served with more bullet (both diameter and weight) than more velocity. That's my philosophy any way. If I want to hunt bigger stuff I go bigger on the bullet and keep the velocity the same. I like velocities to be around 2500 - 2800 fps. then again, I don't shoot past 300 yards.

Thats true,but when it gets up to 338's for an all purpose gun,it gets a little rediculous when you blow up a squirrel even for me.But when your especialy hunting bigger game,I do think that bigger calibers and heavy bullets work better even if they dont fly a mile a minute.For north america's biggest game,I would take a 338 over a 375.The reason is,the 338s generally penetrate deeper.The 338RUM or the 340 Weatherby are good cartridges for longer shots on Big bears ,but if your gonna be really close,I wouldnt consider a 416 overkill.Just as a taxidermist,I have seen some HUGE bear skins that are 9+ feet long.I wouldnot want to be undergunned at spitting with those big bears.Lions and tigers and bears....OH MY.......lions and tigers and bears....OH MY!!......lions and tigers and.........OMG the bear just bit my arm off!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

.375 H&H.

When choosing an all-around cartridge I always pick the biggest game it might be used on. In this case that would of course be the BIG bears. The .375 has been the cartridge of choice there ever since it started being used in North America. It is noticeably more cartridge than the .338.

The .375 also works fine on deer as far as we should shot at them, with any decent 260-270 grain bullet at 2700 or so. Also on antelope. I have done this so know it also doesn't shoot up any more meat than any high-velocity deer rifle, usually less. Doesn't kill them any quicker with lung shots, but does kill them just as well.

It's also a fine varmint round, particularly with 220 Hornady flat-points at around 2000. Might not reach out so far as a .22-250, but scatters prairie dogs just as well. For small game there are plenty of cast bullets for the .38-55 that do just fine with 10-12 grains Red Dot.

MD

Let me refrase that(how do you spell refrase?)I would take a 338 RUM or 340 Weatherby for longer shots on big bears over a 375 H&H.I would not take a 338 win over a 375 H&H for anything though.For close range work,Id prefer a 375 H&H,or a 416 on the BIG bears.

mule_deer,

This is why you get paid the bigs bucks for your writing : "(375 H&H) It's also a fine varmint round, particularly with 220 Hornady flat-points at around 2000. Might not reach out so far as a .22-250, but scatters prairie dogs just as well.

I bet it does !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Tony

Jack O'Connor once wrote the closest thing to an all around bullet for NA game from ground squirrels to moose above timberline is the .270 Win 130 grain/combo. I could probably get by with that, considering you will probably send hundreds, if not thousands of rounds down range at varmits, targets, medium game for every 1 you will at a big bear. That being said, I would be much happier with a .375 if I was after big bear alone and everybody knows the real answer to this question is .30-06.

-Lou

-Lou

Cast bullets at moderate velocities for small game. 338-06 or 35 Whelen if big bears are more likely than black bears.

It still punches a 338 sized hole.Lots of wasted meat unless you only do head shots.I guess its not much bigger than a 30 caliber though.Or I could just take a shotgun squirrels hunting!30 caliber is odd on squirrels,338 is..........really odd.Id love to try it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Jack O'Connor once wrote the closest thing to an all around bullet for NA game from ground squirrels to moose above timberline is the .270 Win 130 grain/combo." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

The Book of O'Conner is in the Old Testiment, right? Wasn't he a Prophet in ancient Israel? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

130 bullet for big bears?<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />Quit jonesing the bong man!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Guess I have to ask: Why would you take a .338-caliber over a .375 for longer shots on bears? Because it shoots an inch flatter at 250 yards?

MD

MD's biggest for the biggest makes a lot of sense but since that bear hunt might be one hunt or maybe two and the other 98% of the time the game would be the much smaller and less truculent cloven hoofed ones, my pick might be the '06. But then again, I would like more frontal area and bullet weight for the bruins, so would pick the .35 Whelan even though I don't have one. Equally versatile when hand loaded.

George

I just can't agree on the 375 H&H choice... while I've owned several and love the round, it's generally chambered in heavy rifles that seem out of place on the likes of antelope and deer, not to mention hauling one up an elk mountain (did I mention recoil?).

The bulk of game taken with the "all-around-one-rifle-rifle" will be small and medium sized stuff, not for one or two grizzly/brown bears in a lifetime of hunting (maybe). I still think a good 06 or 300 Mag is the best choice as a general piece.

Interestingly, I just found this thread over at AR regarding bear rifles... here's Phil Shoemaker's take (he post's as 458Win):

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthre...1882#Post877261

I'll have to qoute gun writer Al Miller on this one.

"There are few cartridges as useful-and none more flexible than the short coupled 350 Remington Magnum."

Al, " The late les Bowman took a large Alaskan Brownie with one 250 greain spitzer from his M600. At 150 yards, the heavy
bullet smashed through the bear's near shoulder, tore through the chest cavity, the opposite shoulder and finally came to rest just under the thick hide on the off side."

Al, " In Africa Pete Brown used two 250 grainers to drop a
Cape buffalo but insisted that, had he place the first slug
properly, the second never would have been nessasary."

For myself, I dont like hauling heavy rifles like a 375.
The 350 will do the same job in a nicier shorter lighter package. Maybe not quite as flat or long. But it will still do it.

A close 2nd choice for me would be the 358 Norma Mag.
It could easily handle bullets from pistol size to
over 250 grains for the biggest bears.

MD,The reason I would take a 338 RUM for long range work is very simple.At 400 yards,the 338 RUM has more retained ft-lbs and velocity,and at a zero of 200 yards,it drops about 10-20 inches less than the 375H&H depending on loads.The same goes for 300 and 250 yards.Under 200 yards,I would also take a 338RUM.If I was hunting in the thick willow messes typical of some moose country,I would take a 416 which will hit the bear much harder at a barrels lenght when its most dangerous to you.The question is,why would you take a 375 over a 338RUM for longe range hunting? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Squirrels to Grizz is a rather large range for one gun, but a Marlin .45-70 will work pretty well. I shoot 350g bonded North Forks at 2181fps and would feel well armed against Grizz with that load. And hey, if I decided I needed more I could always shoot a 460g Cast Performance WFNGC at 1812fps.

For squirrel and other small game there is always 300g Laser Cast BB-FP's at .22LR velocities (1167fps) using 13.5g HS6. This load is accurate enough for head shots at 50 yards.

.35 Whelen in the Remington pump rifle - if only it could have a decent trigger.

I have hunted most small game, deer, and caribou. Hence, my opinion on rifles for larger game are just that - opinion. But this forum seems happy to accept that, so here goes:

I don't go undergunned for deer and caribou, and I will not go undergunned for larger game. I'll take the 375 H&H. It shoots a 270 grain bullet as flat as a 30-06 shoots a 180 grain bullet, and the .375" bullet has half-again the frontal area of the .308" bullet. Granted, it might of necessity be a custom rifle in order to make pack weight, as I know of no 7 or 8 lb 375. My Ruger #1 is heavier than that. Wish I'd kept the Sucks Classic 375 I once had (like everything else I once had). If I could be sure the shots would be 200 yards or less, I would feel equally well-gunned with one of my Marlin 45-70s and handloads.

We will hunt elk for the first time next fall if I am healed sufficiently by then. My primary will be either a 30-06 Weatherby lightweight sporter, or 35 Whelen Sucks Classic, with tough bullets. If you drag me kicking and screaming on a brown bear hunt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I will be carrying a 375.

Live well

Somehow these topics always end up with folks chooing the biggest gun for all around work since they want to have something perfect for the large end of the spectrum, which is okay with me.

But the way I see it, if a person gets a rifle that is perfect for big bears which might be 1% of someone's hunting then it is going to be too heavy, too powerful, too whatever, for whitetails, mulies, antelope, coyote, rabbits, even squirrels (Mortie isn't lurking around here, is he? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> which is the other 99% of that person's hunting.

To ask this question in a different way, what is the best all around truck? Year round you will use it to drop the kids off at school, commute to work, haul groceries, haul some DIY supplies, gardening supplies, maybe drive it 1000 miles once a year and take it into the mountains hunting (for some of you guys that might have to drive that far), and maye once in a great while help somebody move all of their furniture.

How about a Freightliner tractor with a trailer? That would work great for moving a household of furniture, might be a bit hard to park at the Winn Dixie or Safeway, though. Going to ridiculous extremes? Okay, how about an F350 wth the biggest V8 and dual rear tires? That would work but your gas mileage is still going to be a bit of a burden even driving 20 miles per day commuting.

Or how about a 5 liter Ford 150, Chevy 1500 or comparable sized Dodge/Toyota/Nissan? Not too big for day to day use and could, in a stretch, perform the heaviest function. Not perfect for it, but it could work.

I know the truck analogy can be challenged but it helps to put this same question into another arena to lend a different perspective on the subject.

An all around rifle is going to be compromise at both ends, but like any typical bell curve if you start at the middle and work out to both ends you will cover the majority of the area pretty nicely.

There is a reason that the .270, .30-06, 7mm RM and .300 WM are still the most popular centerfire calibers today (could be replaced by the WSM's or SAUM's but the performance range is identical) - they are perfect for the vast majority of situations that hunters in North America are likely to face and in a pinch can work for smaller or bigger stuff at either end.

Bingo!

You said better what I was trying to say above... if you get a moment check out the link on my post... P. Shoemaker has some good observation's re the 30-06 on Brown Bear...

130 grain .277 bullet for big bears is almost as ridiculous as 270 gr .375 for groundhogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> In any case, I can't help being practical and would rather limit myself on what hunting I can do on the extreme upper end than limit myself on the 99.99% of the rest of my hunting. I expect if people can kill bears, moose, etc... with a bow and arrow, I could do so with a properly loaded .270/.30-06. If using a .270 or .30-06 as my all-around means I can't shoot moose in the butt or big bears in the brush, then I am OK with that. I would rather limit myself in that manner than limit myself in the 99.999% other hunting that I will be doing with said rifle in my hands. I have spent too many days (and will spend too many more because I am a rifle loony<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) carrying long, heavy magnums afield when I could get by with a .270/.280/.30-06/.308 in a nice compact package and 22" barrel.

-Lou

DIXIEBANJO--

When I asked why you would pick a .338-caliber magnum over a .375, it was for hunting big bears. Remember? You responded to my original question by stating you'd prefer a .338-caliber magnum "for longer shots on big bears." Nobody I know that's sane shoots at big bears at 400 yards--which you are now implying you do. Do you?

As for your contention that the .338 RUM shoots 10-20 inches flatter at 400 yards than the .375, let's look at the Nosler loading manual, using the fastest loads listed for the .338 RUM and .375 H&H:

If we load the 250 Partition in the .338 RUM to 3000 fps, it will be down 9.5 inches at 400 yards from a 200-yard zero.

If we load the 260 Accubond to 2800 from a .375 H&H, it will be down 11.2 inches at 400 yards from a 200-yard zero.

That's a difference of less than 2 inches, not "10-20."

If we load the 270 Fail Safe to 2800 in the .375, it's still only down 12.0 inches at 400 from a 200-yard zero. That only 2.5 inches, not "10-20."

Don't know where you get those 10-20 inches. Maybe some round-nose 300 factory loads in the .375, compared to a lighter spitzer in the .338 RUM?

Comparing apples to apples, not oranges to pomegranates, for all practical purposes the .375 shoots just as flat when using heavy spitzers. Unless, of course, you can ALWAYS hold within 2.5" at 400 yards, under field conditions.

As for the .338 retaining more velocity and energy, big deal. The .375 uses a heavier, fatter bullet, which experienced hunters of really big game find more important than a little extra velocity or kinetic energy. And even the 270-grain .375 load (with its less-efficient bullet) retains almost 2300 foot-pounds of energy at 400, while the 260 retains almost 2500. That isn't as much as the 2800 of the .338 RUM, buts it's still plenty.

That's beside the point, however, since we aren't going to be shooting big bears at 400 yards anyway. Max might be 250, as I suggested earlier. Here there's even less difference in trajectory, even with a 300-grain bullet in the .375--which hits harder than any .338 load available. I know this not because of numbers, but because I've used both .338 and .375 cartridges on a lot of game.

For 400-yard shooting of any non-dangerous game, I'll take any of the .300 magnums, probably the .300 Winchester. This is because it's plenty of gun, but a lot easier to shoot than some .338 super-magnum.

As for the .416 for close bears, well yeah. The .416 hits harder than the .375, for the same reasons the .375 hits harder than the .338's. It's the reason I've used the .416 Rigby for my buffalo (as opposed to bison) hunting. But this discussion started with your question about one all-around cartridge, not what's perfect for each application.

To EVERYBODY--

My pick of the .375 H&H was tongue-in-cheek, though everything I've said about it is true. (Yes, I have used it on prairie dogs and antelope.) My real choice would probably be a 7x57 Mauser or .270 Winchester, since I don't plan to shoot any more Cape buffalo anytime soon.

MD

John,

Just curious why you'd pick the 7x57mm Mauser over the .30-06?


Leo

Well, I have everything from a 22 up to a 340 weatherby and if I could only keep one it would be my baby doll Browning A-bolt chambered in 30-06, She�s not the smallest, fastest, largest by any means but she gets the job done and I can find ammo in any corner store anywhere.

quote:

"John,

Just curious why you'd pick the 7x57mm Mauser over the .30-06?"



Cuz he's a rifle looney! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MtnHtr

Yep, we now John's a rifle looney <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We know he likes the .270Win, used the .30-06 for time when it was his only rifle and likes using it when travelling, but the 7mm Mauser over the '06 as general all purpose NA cartridge? That caught me by surprise.

I'd pick the 300 Weatherby. Elgin gates and others used this great caliber to take virtually ALL of the world's game. With a 220gr Partition, I'd feel totally comfortable taking a bear in most circumstances and with 180gr bullets, everything else. jorge

Amazing how the "Old Timers" got by with cartridges like the 30-30 and 30-40 and of course the .06 just to feed the family and protect.

Times have changed and there are those that are getting rich on caliber choices and bullets and one or two test.The old timers had it right.Hunt it as close as you can and then put the bullet where it goes and the family eats.How did they ever get by without the thunder boomers?

Jayco..

I vote for the 338-06. One bullet for everything would have to be a 210 gr. Triple Shock X @ 2750 fps. Can't imagine anything within 350 yards that would be safe.

After cruising through this thread I can answer this best when figuing in only Alaskan animals, since this is where I live, and won't be wandering about the Lower-48 any time soon.
I'd have to highly consider the 8-Mauser, with 200-220 grain bullets, and both a scope and iron sights.
Small edible game can be head-shot, so no real loss of meat here. Medium to large game can be had easily. Bears might be a scary situation, but it will suffice. My 8-Mauser is a custom job, sporting a scout scope set up, AO ghost ring sights on the ends, parkerized, and deadly. ~~~Suluuq

Leo--

Probably 15 years ago I would definitely have picked the .30-06. But remember the premise of this thread: an all-around rifle for everything from varmints and small game up.

The smaller calibers are better varmint rifles than the '06. Also, with today's bullets, they will do about anything the .30-06 used to do with the best bullets of 20 years ago--at least on non-dangerous game. Actually, even 20 years ago the .270 and 7x57 were plenty with the heavier Noslers.

I might even go with the .260 Remington or 6.5x55. Again, with good bullets, they do fine on elk. They'd be even better than the .270 or 7x57 on varmints, because 6.5mm varmint bullets go down to 85 grains in weight.

But all of this, while kind of fun, is also the same silly question we've been asking ourselves for decades. Now, which 4 cartridges we'd pick for everything on earth is a more realistic question.....

MD

Most Practical: 22lr (or 223), 270, 338WM, 416RM

My choice: 22lr, 257 Rbt's, 30-06, 375H&H

Looks like I will be the odd man out and offer an opinion the other side most here. Hedgeing your bet on the "big" side is smart but only if you are ever going to go after the "big" stuff. Its one thing to have a rifle that will work for all of NA and another that you actually use for all of NA.

Here in WV where I live I can hunt anything with a .223. Ammo is cheap, available everywhere and my kids can use it with ease. I would pick a cartridge that was suited to what I would use it for most often, not what I may never use it for.

And if that Elk, Moose or bear hunt come up I would call my buddy MD and ask to borrow his 375, 260, 6.5, 270, 7x57 or maybe the Drilling!

Brad--

A few years ago I would have gone with your second list. These days I would go with .17 HMR, .223, 6.5x55 and .375.

Maybe!

MD

Here we go again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I'll go with that but eliminate the 6.5 and substitute the .280 (never had one).

Maybe!

George

I'd be happy with Brad's suggestion:
22LR, 270 Win, 338 Mag, 416 Rem.

My vote is for the .375 H&H...I have a pre-64 Model 70 and it is the one rifle I refuse to sell.

22lr, 223, 30-06, and 375.

What ever the shooter can do the job with. There are no animals alive that require armor piercing projectiles, but los of guys go out over gunned and complain when poor shooting rsults in lots of misses and too many cripples.

I own everything from a 450 Ackley down to a 17 Rem, I choose to hunt most of the time with a 308 Win. I like that particular caliber in that particular rifle and I pass up shots that I feel are marginal. The dealiest weapon I own is called patience!

Now you did it! You just had to throw "common sense" into the mix, Didn't you??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL, no truer fence was ever straddled!

I also own a pile of rifles, over 30 at present and my four rifle list would be exactly what Brad posted, or, the .280R in place of the .270W. However, after years working and hunting, frequently solo, in serious, remote wilderness with dense Grizzly populations, I will not hunt or backpack meat without one of my .338 Win. rifles in my hands.

I know what can be done with a .30-06 and have owned a bunch of them, I have four superb ones now. I have experienced their effect on Grizzlies and the .338 is quite a lot better. The .375H&H is a bit better still, but, it makes up into a heavier rifle and that is a big concern to me. So, I pick a good CRF .338 Win. with 250 NPs at 2700 fps, 23" bbl. q.d mounts, good irons and a solid scope, works for me.

I might add that, a dangerous Grizzly attack will almost always happen with a speed that you have to see to believe and frequently from the side or behind. You will be damned lucky to get one shot into a Grizzly if attacked and you shoot into the center of mass and never mind that b___s___t about breaking shoulders, ect., the late J'OC was "full of prunes" on this. So, a 250gr. .338 bullet at 2700 is better than the 180 at 2700 in my experience.

If, I were super-sensitive to recoil, Phil Shoemaker's recommendation of the '06-200 gr. NP or 220 gr. NP is what I would use, and have, but using the rifle/cartridge/bullet that is best for the biggest game you will deal with is my concept of the best rig for all N.A. game. YMMV.

Mule deer
Wake up buddy.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />....B-29 and 9.3 BS... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Charlie

22lr, 308 Win, 35 Whelen and 450 Marlin.

Just happend to be what I have in the safe!

Mule deer,

4 rifles, eh? Nice, easy segue. You have quite the following, including me.

Okay, let's say my 4 picks, ermin to elephant, are 22lr, 30-06, 375H&H, and 470 NE. How'd I do? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If pressed, I could do it all with one of my 45-70 Marlin 1895s and...2 or 3 loads. One load would do it but would not be as much fun.

Live well

Which 4? 22 Hornet, 280 Rem, 338 Winmag, 416 Rigby. That is what I have in the safe and I'm not buying anymore rifles. I do have a few more Cape Buffs in my future, John and if I didn't that 416 could leave and I would be perfectly happy with just the 3.

Now that we get to pick 4 calibers my choice would be: 22LR, 6BR, .30-338, and .416 Rem Mag. I like rockchuck hunting too much not to have a rifle for it so the 6BR and 30-338 could be double duty rifles for both rockchucks and deer sized critters. The .416 can be for everything from elk to elephants.

If I had to just pick one caliber for all my hunting it would most likely be a .375 of either the H&H flavor or the RUM.

Redhead--

Nice choices, but this isn't a test!

Mine change all the time, as I shoot more cartridges. My 4 actually probably are the last 4 I shot!

MD

These are exactly the four that I have left after long and arduous soul searching and quite a few internet sales. Kimber .22, Model 700 .223 VS, two Model 70 .30-06's (wood and synthetic stocked) and a Model 70 .375 H&H.

Um, the .243, 7mm-08, .270, and .300 Win. Mags in the closet are just for play. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I used to get by just fine with a .22, .30-06 and a 12 gauge shotgun - specifically a Ruger 10-22 with Williams Foolproof peep sight, Remington Model 700 with good old Leupold M8 4X scope and a Remington Model 1100, 28" barrel modified choke. Would not necessarily want to go back to those lean days but I was darn deadly with all three and would not be handicapped all that much if I had to make do with them again.

the very best cartridge for North American hunting is one which is the most useful across a broad spectrum of game, and a variety of hunting conditions.....

the various .24, .25, & .26 cal. rifles are clearly at the head of this class as they are ideal for most of the hunting that most of us do... THEY ARE NOT dangerous game stopping rifles, but are sufficient for well placed shots at any game under hunting conditions... THEY ARE NOT dedicated varmint rigs, but properly loaded and handled, they are capable on that end of the spectrum as well.....

if the majority of my hunting were for deer, i would choose a .26.... if coyotes and such were my primary target i would go with a .24..... (my choice for the last 27 years)

if i did a lot of both a .25 would make sense..... i'm kinda leaning more that way all of the time.....

for a whole lot of years i did virtually all of my rifle work with a Remington 581 .22 and a ruger 77 .243.....never felt any need for more rifles..... john w

From squirrels to Grizzly.
Any one of 7 Rem. Mag, 7mm WSM, or .280 AI.

Mule Deer,

My comment, "How'd I do?", was tongue-in-cheek. I agree that it's no test, but it is fun.

I understand the concept of favorites changing as experienced is gained. I've been trading rifles in and out for years and my favorites list, like yours, changes as I go. My list trends toward heavier calibers, probably because of their more uniform and predictable results on game with traditional cup jacket lead core bullets and moderate velocities. I've been on a 45-70 kick this year. Got 6 of 'em right now. Wanna buy a 45-70?

I gotta get out of my groove and try those expensive 'hard' bullets one of these days. The TSX is peaking my curiousity. Are they worth a try? Those super premium bullets might just make a game gun out of the 270. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Live well

4 rifles is easy.

22 LR, 223, 308, 375 H&H (common sense appraoch).

22 LR, 223, 308, and 376 Steyr, all in the Steyr Scout format, is the Butt-Load-of-money-and-nothing-better-to-do-with-it approach!

BMT

BMT

Redhead--

Sorry, I'll have to pass on the .45-70. I only have three, but that seems like enough for the moment.

The TSX is the real deal. Of course there are a bunch of really good "hard" bullets on the market now, but if you believe in penetration, the X has always been up there, and the Triple Shock seems to have cured the X's problems of the past. I've tried them in about a dozen rifles now and they have all shot well, without fouling anymore than standard bullets. They do the job on game, too.

I too have an affinity for slower rounds with standard bullets. I also have an affinity for faster rounds with hard bullets, and slower rounds with hard bullets. Sometimes I even like fast rounds with soft bullets! Damn, I guess I just like 'em all!

MD

Spoken like a true Looney! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MuleDeer

Have you tried the XXX's in your 35 Whelen? If so, how did they perform?

BP...

Gotta be the 30-06 even though I like my .338 better.

boilerpig--

Don't have a .35 Whelen at present! Do have a .375 H&H that I intend to test TSX's in ASAP. No doubt they will do fine.

MD

MD,

My friends and family accuse me of this very thing. They are of this mentality: "I have one rifle and that is enough and I, owning many rifles, can't make up my mind"

What they don't get is I love guns. I am pretty open minded when it comes to guns and I love to sit and stare at the safe and decide what gun I take hunting today. I told My Father In Law the other day, I really needed a good 25-06 or 257 Weatherby for a good "pick up" rifle here in Idaho. He shook his head and wandered off. I guess he thinks I own over 30 "pick up" rifles already and that is 29 more than I need.

If I had 100 guns in the safe, I will still need a good "pick up rifle"

CM

Combineman--

Yeah, choosing is half the fun!

I was invited on a deer in Pennsylvania hunt this year and couldn't make up my mind. At the last minute it came down to the one that I knew was sighted-in and hadn't been hunted for a while. This turned out to be my CZ 9.3x62, which most people would consider a little much for whitetails. But it has other virtues, like never goiong out of zero, and quick back-up iron sights for hunting in really nasty weather--which can happen in Pennsylvania during deer season.

Probably next time I'll take another rifle. One would be boring!

MD

How did you do, and where were you in PA?

never been over there but i just love my 338-378 and im sure it would do the job nicely

After reading these replies it seems like the best cartridge for North American game is the one that is just being released and also dissed on this board.

The 8mm-WSM. I refuse to call it a 325.

Shooting a 220 grain A-frame at nearly 4000 ft lbs of energy might do on grizzlies, certainly better than a .30-06 (which is my favorite).

Let the flames begin! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

When talking about bears: The best cartridge for North America was released in 1958 as "The Alaskan." Back then it was not very popular, but nowadays is as popular as the .300WM, and the .30-06. What has made the .338 so popular is the outstanding SD of .33-caliber bullets, and "Alaska" hunting. A 220-grain 8mm bullet producing 4,000 foot-pound of energy has no advantage over a 250-grain bullet at 2,700 fps out of a .338WM, and don't forget that handloaders can go as high as .300 grains with .33-caliber bullets. Better yet, a 300 grainer out of the .375 H&H is great medicine on any bear.

A .338 WM 250-grain HE from Federal produces 4,350 foot-pound, a 225-grain SP-HM 4,347 foot-pound. A .375 H&H with a 300 grainer from Hornady HM ammo produces 4,873 foot-pound. Both the .338 and .375 produce bigger holes, too.

I certainly agree with that and I do not see a 220 A-Frame out of a .325WSM as having ANY improvement over a .30-06 with the 220 NP at 2450. In fact, I would prefer the Nosler over the Swift for penetration in larger animals such as Bears.

The .338 Win., .35 Whelen, 9.3-62, 9.3-64, .358 Norma and .375H&H are all excellent cartridges for heavy game and, in Grizzly country, I think it sound practice to use this type of cartridge. I have shot all of these and prefer the .338 and 9.3-62 and 74r, two rounds I have become very fond of recently.

But, I think that Ray is right, the .338 with the best loads is about as good as it ever gets.

No one is going to argue that the .338 isn't better for grizzlies, but this thread is about the best all around cartridge for North American game, and I think the 8mm-WSM is a contender.

It can shoot 180 and 200 grain bullets faster and with a flatter trajectory than the 300 winchester, making it a great cartridge for long shots on medium and heavy game, and still be an acceptable cartridge shooting grizzlies with 220 grain bullets.


And Kutenay, what have you been drinking? Or did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

You don't see how a 220 grain A-frame has any advantage over a 220 NP when its going 400 fps faster and has 1000 ft. lbs more energy, and on grizzlies?

You may choose a .30-06 to hunt grizzlies, but I can't believe that you would actually choose the .30-06 over the 8mm-WSM thinking it was better.

The Partition is a good bullet, but its not that good.

SlowHand: The .30-06 has killed more bears in Alaska than most other cartridges. In fact, back then bears were being killed with .30-30's and other smaller guns, and the .30-06 became the big kid in the block. Then the .375 H&h stepped in as the "bear" gun. Then in 1958 the .338WM was introduced as "The Alaskan." Even today the .30-06 still remains the most popular cartridge, except that the .300WM and the .338WM are the favorite with bear hunters. The .30-06 is very popular with moose, deer, and caribou hunters. For bears I would prefer the .338WM with 250 to 300-grain bullets, or the .300WM with 220-grain bullets, but a .30-06 loaded with 220-grain bullets is not bad at all. The rest is left to shot placement and good or bad luck. The real "bear" guns start with the number .416.

The all around cartridges in here are the .30-06, .300WM, and the .338WM. These three are used by deer to bear hunters. Our deer are kind of midgets with four legs, while bison, brown bears, and some moose are huge. Interior grizzly are not as big as coastal bears, but someone I know killed a 9'6" bears a few years ago, so they grow big enough.

Perhaps more 8mm bullets will be produced in the near future, but so far the 8mm chambering has not been very popular in the US, and one has to look hard for such bullets at the local stores. As with most cartridges, the availability of ammo and reloading components will decide the .325's fate, and since it has been placed smack in the middle of a whole bunch of already proven cartridges, it has a huge mountain to climb.

My opinon concerning this issue is based on actual, bloody-handed B.C. wilderness experience and shooting both Swift and Nosler bullets out of various rifles.

The 220 NP, in the '06, will penetrate much further than the 220 SAF driven much faster from the .325WSM and the difference in bullet diameter is not sufficient to make any actual difference. The WSM cartridges have serious feeding problems and the '06 feeds superbly, in about every rifle it has been-is chambered in.

The extra speed given the .325 A-Frame actually works against it's penetrative effectiveness and this is absolutely crucial when shooting an on-coming Grizzly as you MUST disrupt his c-v system to cause interruption of bloodflow to the brain, in order to shut him down. Kinetic energy is a measurement which has very little to do with actual performance on game, especially heavy, possibly dangerous game, what counts is deep penetration, rapid destruction of vital tissue and consistent bullet performance.

Here in B.C., hunters are frequently attacked, while Deer, Elk or Moose hunting, by Grizzlies, therefore any cartridge to be used here must be adequate for such use. The .30-06 is now and has been for decades, the most common hunting cartridge in most of western Canada and I suspect that it will be so long after the WSM "marketing efforts" have been discontinued and forgotten.

I have used a .30-06 with Nosler PT. bullets for self defence in remote Grizzly country for decades and also have used it to protect my large Forestry crews in this same situation. Most of my former colleagues, some of who had bush experience going back to before WWI did and still do the same thing, because it WORKS.

I almost never drink, get out of bed on the same side every morning and prefer a .338, but, feel adequately armed with an '06. The last Grizzly I was in at the death of was shot with a Nosler PT., probably the best Grizzly bullet ever produced.

The Swift A-Frame IS a good bullet, but, the Nosler is better, IMHO, that said, use whichever one you prefer on whatever you want to hunt.

Any bullet in a 30-06 of the same weight as a 8mm/325 bullet of similar construction will win the penetration race every time, the SD will be higher.

Kuteney, I also live in BC and have hunted extensively up North.

My rifle of choice usually is a .30-06 with 200 grain Partitions. I've used that combo for years and know what it can do, but I have also used a .338 win enough to know that it is a better cartridge on big animals.

If the a-frame doesn't penetrate well then it wouldn't be such a popular choice for African game, along with the 338 win. And the 8mm-wsm is closer to the 338 win than it is to the '06.

Another way to look at it is the 220 8mm has the same speed and energy as the 338 win 225 grain bullet, except that the higher SD and smaller diameter will allow it to penetrate better.

I could be wrong but I think that most grizzly hunters given the choice would choose a .338 win shooting 225 grain A-frames over a .30-06 shooting 220 grain PT's.

I'd probably take the '06 in that situation. Now, a 250 or higher pill in the .338 is another story.

I have already mentioned a preference for the .338 Mag. which works best with 250 gr. NPs at 2700+ and I seriously doubt the .325WSM will give chronographed velocities close to the Win. Mag. with bullets of equal S.D. The chrono'ed results that I have seen, thus far, on the .338-.300WSM tend to give results more in tune with the .338-06 and I suspect that the .325WSM will be much the same.

The .30-06-220 NP will signifigantly out penetrate the .338-225SAF and those who choose the latter combo as it may be more popular could well be novice hunters who "learn" their "skills" from popular gun mags. and so forth. Africa has nothing to do with this as the topic is "North America", however, I have several acquaintances who are from Africa, still hunt there frequently and have used both SAF and NP bullets, prefering the latter.

I have seen at least six Grizzlies killed with the '06, with NP bullets without a single problem and a number killed with other rounds as well. One thing I have noticed is that NO rifle and cartridge that you can actually carry will instantly put a Bear's lights out, but, the .30-06-180 NP does about as well as anything else, because most guys can learn to shoot it well.

Hunting trips give one some experience, working for decades in the wilderness areas of B.C., for months at a time, often solo, gives one a level of direct, frequent experience that hunting alone cannot provide. I do not offer opinions based on anything other than actual, firsthand experience as I have found that there is a certain amount of exaggeration involved in hunting tales and the magazines that publish them.

I would be prepared to put a substantial wager to test where the ballistics of the .325WSM are concerned, I do not think that it will, in any respect, be equal to the .338Win. and consider the .30-06 a much superior round, in all respects. Given your choice, as posted, it seems we agree, which is a good thing, IMHO, as I think this entire WSM fad is a con job by Winchester; I wish they would concentrate their energies and efforts on building better quality rifles, instead.

Kuteney, I do agree with you that we don't know the actual velocities of the .325 wsm yet. The .300 wsm has lived up to its advertized velocities so I'm hoping the 325 will too, but we will have to wait and see.

I can see we are of different opinions, so I will let you have yours. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> You seem to like penetration. I prefer more energy and more damage as long as penetration is adequate.

I have found that Grizzlies aren't much different than black bears of equal size to put down. However, a charging grizzly doesn't leave much time to choose bullet placement, which I have witnessed. Personally I would err on the side of a larger caliber.

As for the WSM, I can see that you don't like the concept. I have heard a few rumblings about feeding problems, but everyone that I know that have purchased WSM's haven't reported problems.

I think that, over-all, you and I agree on this more than we disagree and I also prefer the larger bore for B.C. hunting and would use it everywhere else in North America. But, for people who honestly find the recoil of a .338Win Mag. too much, I think that the old '06. is their best option.

I tend to agree with the comment on Black/Grizzlies, but, the difference is that a wounded Black will almost always run into the deepest cover he can, away from you where many, not all, Grizzlies will try to get you, even when fatally wounded. So, the preference for a larger bore that we share is a wise one, IMO.

You are right about the WSMs, this is actually an old cartridge design, rooted in the ancient Winchester rounds, the .50-110-300 and .50-100-450 and the basic workup on these was done by them sometime after WWI, for the US Army. When I first started this insanity, guys were making identical cartridges as wildcats, Roy Gradle in the western U.S. being the best known one.

I have heard many reports, on this forum and from other reputable sources, as to the feeding issues and just think that the whole thing is b___s___t; the actual gain over a .30-06 in a 24" bbl. will average about 150 fps., to me, that isn't worth it. If, I want a "magnum", I prefer a major increase in size, weight, energy and all that stuff, .338s, .375 and .416.

But, if a guy likes a .325WSM and shoots it well with 200 NPs, 225 SAFs or whatever, that's what he should have!

The more I look at the 325WSM the more it looks like a warm short action 8mm-06.

Stay with your choice of the .300 Weatherby Magnum. It along with the .300 Win. Mag. and the .338 Win. Mag. are three of the best for all around use. And the .300 Weatherby Magnum has the advantage of being able to get ammo most everywhere you will go. And if you can't get Weatherby ammo you can use .300 H&H ammo instead. Forget the newer offerings from Remington. Ammo for the RUM's is hard to find in small back countries towns and such. Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Will someone help me remember which North American animal cannot be killed cleanly with a 175 grain Trophy Bonded or Swift A Frame from a 7mm mag.?
I know our big animals are harder to kill than Europes, because the Swedes most popular round for Moose and Polar Bears is the 6.5x55.

I've gotta say that the 260 Remmington, 6.5 Remington Magnum, or the 264 Winchester would be best. Seirra makes 85 grain bullets for the small stuff, and Hawk (www.Hawkbullets.com) makes 160 grain bullets for the big stuff. 140's work for the big stuff at longer range. If you must have one load, pack a 140 Barnes X, 140 Partition, or a 140 A-Frame. There isnt an animal that walks or crawls in North America that can't be taken with one of these

Any .30 cal from "06" up through the various .300 mags.

Lefty

I would put my vote on the 30-06 also. The target was all NA game, not just Grizzly. Take bear out of the mix then which caliber?
I'm suprised some would pick the 375 H&H. to use on antelope, sheep, and deer?

No, why not stick with what is proven, and ammo in just about any store you walk into. A bore, maybe, but the 06 in the all american work horse.

Wow - no has mentioned it yet - Myself - limited to 1 (Lord help us if it comes to that) choice would be the 416 Taylor or the 375 H&H - does it all. Realisticaly if I didn't think I was gonna be a bear's dinner (and I ain't ever) just to be different - 300 H&H.

Has class, history and feeds slicker than snot on ice. And the added bonus - I don't think it has been mentioned once!

Or I could go obscure and say something like a one of the old express rounds from the days of the Brit empire, pull out some old Ross Seyfried article and start to pull wierd stuff outta the unmentionable regions but I'll stand on the H&H family.

It can be loaded down to 375 Win levels for smaller stuff.

As good as the 30-06 is I would have to go with the 338-06, better selection on the heavy side. I much better like the thought of 4 guns and would go with the following though I would hate to be limited by even 4: 17HMR, 270 win, 338-06 and the 375 H&H...then there's the 444 marlin, 416 Rigby, 30-30 sentimental favorite, etc...

Dixiebanjo,

take it easy on the "Northerners" were not all liberals. Also, I was told while working down south a Northerner is a yankee and a yankee who moves south is a "damn yankee"

Must I always correct this??

Yankee = northerner who goes south and goes back north after vacation

D* Yankee = northern who goes south and stays

GD Yankee = northern who moves south and brings his FUBAR Liberal ideas with him and tries to make it just like "home" here.

Southern Yankee = D* Yankee who tells the GD Yankees to go home, I"ll take up a collection to pay for the move. I moved here to get away from jackA$$es like you.


g - a southern yankee.

Definitions are accurate but spelling is off.

"Damnyankee" is one word.





(Living in Idaho now but born and raised in Dixie. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

I'll throw in my vote for the best for N. America and up the ante for best in te World. The 30-06

tennesse has a place whats plum full of good yankees.....

they call it Shiloh.....

anything much bigger than a quarter bore is too big to be considered generally usefull.....john w

There is NEVER a time when a .375 H&H can be considered "inappropriate" unless we find that occasion upon which it can be said that something is just too dead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

300wsm

wrongo buckwheat!!!!!

there is no bullet made for the .375 which is frangible on impact.... such as are highly desirable for shooting predators and varmints in settled country..... shoot a .375 at a coyote on ground frozen as hard as chinese arithmetic, and even if you hit him the bullet will zing across the county til it meets up with a school bus, hill, or cape buffalo.....(guernsey)

from 7mm up, there are no true varmint bullets widely available..... i know of such as the .308/110 and others, but their makers will not recommend them for use in settled country without a certain backstop.....

the various .24s, .25s, and .26s however have a wide selection of bullets which will run the gamut.....

What have I started? LOL

My vote goes for the 338-06. 180 gr. Ballistic Tips @ 3000 fps, 210 gr. TSX's @ 2750 fps, and 275 gr. A-Frames @ 2300 fps. Not much you can't do with those three loads <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ya'll may not have noticed that Phil Shoemaker has decided to join the campfire... I knew he'd back my choice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I noticed, but I wasn't saying anything. Anyone that goes by 458WIN and prefers the 30-06 for North American big game hunting........................ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Chuck

I'd ordinarily say .30-06, but would have to go with the .45-70 Govt. - in bullet weights ranging from 250 grain to 500 grain and can be loaded with 50 yard plinking rounds or up to 200 - 250 yards if you want to reach out there. Good selection of commercial loads and one can do up some nice handloads also.

I'd say any caliber with pistol bullets of same caliber available. or that you can make shoot cast bullets. I like the .35 Whelen /.38 Special duality.

I gotta put in another vote for the 30-06, course on every hunt from now on I will be bringing 2 guns!! My Penrod custom '06 and my custom 7X57. Sheesh, deciding which one to use sure isn't what it's cracked up to be!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Huntr

[
from 7mm up, there are no true varmint bullets widely available..... i know of such as the .308/110 and others, but their makers will not recommend them for use in settled country without a certain backstop.....

buckwheat,
If you are hunting in settled country you darn well better have a backstop! Some darn fool just put a bullet through several walls of a house and just missed a three year old girl playing on the floor in Hugo, Minnesota. It was on the news every night for quite a while.
Try shooting pistol bullets out of a 35 Whelen, trust me its a varmint bullet! If everone else jumped off a bridge would you?
If everyone else got married would you?
If everyone else shot a 30-06 would you?
I vote 35 Whelen. It's big enough for bears and with pistol bullets it can be used on small critters. You can make cases out of useless 30-06 brass. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Great White North

hmmmm I should stay out of this but !!!!!

I'd go with a 358 win ... load light for small game and
250's for deep woods .... even though I do like the 45-70
idea ... best thing is 308 cases can be used and you have
lots more powder to reload with to get that bullet placement
thing going !!!!!! less powder, more practice = food on the
table ... yummie !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talon

Well buckwheat, maybe not! Take a Hornady 220gr designed for the 375 Winchester and load it up as fast as a .375 H&H can drive it. I think one might have a .375 varmint bullet but I must say I haven't tried it...yet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The 300 Wby has got to win. does everything the 30-06 does but about 400 fps faster. This means you can shoot a 220 grain bullet as fast as the 30-06 shoots a 180 grain. 300 Wby factory rifles are available in weights as light as 6 3/4 pounds with 26" barrels.

I think a good 8x57 with modern loads, 180 Ballistic tips and 200 grain Partitions would do for most all game at the ranges I shoot.
Charlie.............what the heck am I thinking ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.....9.3 Sisk must be the best, followed by the 9.3 BS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The 06 is a good pick. However, for all North American big game, the 35 Whelen is great on all of it.

Dave

Sharps made the west safe for Winchester

Dave
There you go, making sense...
art

Sharkhunter, not famiar with the 35 Whelen, but since I don't hand load i think I better pick between the 06 and Rem7MM
I think I'm still leaning to the 06.

what remains of that bullet will still travel a long ways and do a lot of damage..... a few hundred yds downrange your 220 is traveling at .375 Win. velocities and will behave just like it

thanks GWN,

you made my point for me, and provided a good example....
such examples are rare where i live because rifles used hereabouts are overwhelmingly in the fast .22, .24, & .25 class... and everbody with a lick of sense knows enough to use varmint bullets...

in much of the area where i live there are no back stops... particularly south of the river, the topography is as flat as a quadrangle map.....
cartridge and bullet selection are both crucial to safety....

concerning other matters that you mentioned, bridge jumping and marriage are equally risky but the discussion of such is not germain to the selection of a useful rifle..... please try to focus..... john w

Sign me up for the '06. I can tell from these posts that we're all feeling different parts of the elephant. Guys who take the biggest and most dangerous game into consideration seem to want the bigger guns. Guys who take their game at longer range seem to favor the faster guns. Some guys put up with more recoil. Some guys don't.

Me? I've hunted boar, deer, coyote and groundhog with the '06 very successfully. It has been more than a match for all. I would not feel undergunned anywhere I intend to travel. Although I might take along something bigger or faster if I went West for Elk, or North for Moose, or way up thar for big bear, you can bet one of my rifles would be a 30-06. East of the Mississippi, I believe it has no peer.

My defense of this position is simple:

1) I have loaded the '06 with everything from 55 grain up to 200 grain, and I know I could go further than that. The 165 grain and 180 grain I shoot will do a good job on 90% of what I intend to hunt.
2) I can get ammo for '06 just about anywhere on the planet.
3) I can buy a used '06 cheaper than any of those fancy calibers the collectors love.
4) The loading components are ubiquitous, and it is probably the most heavily researched round out there.
5) I do not have to get fancy. Remington Core-lokts from Walmart will blow away anything that gets in my sights inside 200 yards.


BTW: if you want my second choice, it would be 12 Gauge slug at anything inside 75 yards. You can poke fun at me all you want, but having seen what a Remington Slugger will do on a deer makes me a believer.

.338 Win Mag.

Wow..............

35 Whelen

Well, if the big bears are included, then there is a wonderful article in the March issue of RIFLE on the choices of grizzly guide Ed Stevenson, an Alaskan with 40 years of experience. He likes the 411 Hawk, 375 Hawk/Scovill, 348 Winchester, 350 Rem Mag, 45-70, 35 Whelen, and 375 Holland. He likes lever actions and he is not impressed with the 338's and 300's.
For the coldest months, he might use a 7 Rem Mag for wolves, and foregoes the levergun as the receivers are too cold in subzero weather.
This was another RIFLE issue that was superb. Oh, and writer Al Miller does not care for the 270 WSM in and it's ilk. They recoil too much. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think you have to eliminate the big bears for a meaningful answer unless the person answering is an Alaskan resident that might encounter grizzlies alot. I would feel foolish shooting a squirrel or a pronghorn with a 340 Weatherby that I needed for big bear and I would be terrified with a 25-06 facing a grizzly w/o back up, but that is just me.
7 x 57 Ackley for the lower 48.

How do you hunt squirrels with a 30-06?

Come on!

Why not, I have done it. Albeit I have only shot a few squirrel with one. I have also killed a bunch of grouse with a 30/06 along with a few turkey, a couple of rabbits and numerous crows.

When you use a hard cast bullet at 1600fps, all it does is make a 30 caliber hole. As long as you head shot them, no problem. And with body shots it doesn't do much damage, but the only small game I have body shot with the 30/06 are turkey.

In fact for years in Alaska, I would say that 90% of the grouse I killed were with a 30/06. The others were with a 30/30 or 38 special.

Try it, you will like it.

No single caliber can do "everything" in NA well, one (or more) can do a passable job, and a four gun battery can capably and comfortably do it all.

Okay, the "one-gun" for everything? .30-06. No brainer. One caliber to do it all, squirrels to griz, soup to nuts? .30-06.

Why? 'cause the ol' '06 done been there, done that. It's got verifiable kills, and a lot of records, for every species of game on the continent, and most on the planet. It's well within most shooters comfort zone for recoil. You can find darn good factory loads for it, and get them in any "mom and pop" general store almost anywhere you can hunt on dry land. No, it ain't sexy, or new. It don't blaze the ballistic charts, or shoot as flat as a frozen rope for 400+ yards, or show enough punch on paper to flatten a T-Rex, but it'll do the job. And for an "all-'rounder" that's what you want. It ain't perfect on either the big or small end, but it'll do it, no questions asked.

The four-gun battery?

Sensible? 22LR; .243 Winchester; .308 Winchester; .358 Winchester. All but the 22LR use the same brass (reload compatible), and the parent brass (.308 Win.) can be found anywhere.

Nostalgic? 22LR; .250-3000 Savage; 7x57 Mauser; .375 H&H. If you need to ask, you don't know.

"New-fangled"? .17 Mach2; .270 WSM; .325 WSM; .416 Remington

Speed-freak? .17HMR; .257 Roy; .30-378; .416 Roy

Lever-gun? .22LR; .25-35 Winchester; .307 Winchester; .45-70 Government.

Handgun (single-shot)? .22LR; 6.5 JDJ; .375 JDJ; .45-70 Government

Handgun (revolver)? .22LR; .357/.38; .41 Remington Magnum; .45LC/.454

Just to be different? .22 Hornet; .257 Roberts; .300 Savage; .405 Winchester

There now, don't we all feel better now that's resolved? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'd say that the .30/06 is the most tested and proven cartridge extant. It's the minimum I'd choose for the do-all title. Lots of cartridges will do nearly as well, but not on the upper end of the spectrum. With today's ammo options, the .30/06 has narrowed the gap between it and the .300 H&H's standard performance numbers. In a 24-26" barrel using modern ammo, the old '06 delivers way more than the numbers that made it's legendary reputation. On some game you'd prefer more bullet weight and bore size, but the old '06 can be made to work adequately on anything in North America.AW

Oh the 50bmg with out a doubt. lol actually probly the '06 or .270

50bmg....LOL.

I think the market (thousands of hunters) long ago answered this one. Its the 30-06. Nothing else even comes close.

If its four my choices are 22lr, 22-250, 340wby, 416rem

I think the 30-06 won.

The 30-06 Springfield is the Samual Adams of beers...."always a good decision."

It's a good article, but this is what Alaskans like:

http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=pubs.hntbul8#cartridges

One of the 300 mags. The 06 is just too slow for long shots.

I use the Weatherby, but others are its equal.

.30-06. BT/DT. Thousands of times over.

The 270 Win, or the 7x57mm should be all that is needed in the lower 48.

.425 Express; it is a reloading option but will handle anything in NA, especially the big bears.