1 1/2 high at 100? - 24hourcampfire

On medium/big game my personal max is 300 yards. 99.9% of my hunting is under 100 yards due to terrain/brush and fence rows. I typically shoot a 165 BTSP in my 30.06 but its slow at 2680. My 25.06 is shooting closer to the 2900 fps range with a 115 Nosler BT. I guess I don't mind the holdover at 300 yards but may have to give the 3 inches high to see how it works out for me. Thanks everyone for sharing their experience and opinions.

3" high at 100 is a good way to go for most modern big game cartridges - not for varmints, though. Then your 1.5" high is a better idea.

Some people, though, aren't happy with 3" high, as they think that's a bit too much (with many rounds it'll mean that when the bullet reaches its highest point at approx. 150 yds, it'll be about 3.75" inches high).

So ... another popular way is to sight your gun in so that it doesn't rise more than 3" high at its highest point. For an '06 with most loads, that means about 2.7" high at 100. You can look this up for any round at: http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=/balcalc.ascx

3" high at a hundred doesn't work for me. It makes it too darn easy to hit high at 150 yards when your bullet is 4" or so high. I like 2" high at 100, which means only about 3" low at 250. Shots further than that are extremely rare for me. Besides, I'd rather have to aim a little high at 300 than aim low at 150.

Obviously, though, personal choice and hunting conditions play a big part in how a person sights in his rifle.

3" high at 100. That's how my Dad did it.

I've never done the 3" high @ 100, mainly because over the years I figured my average shot is around 175 yards. Using 3@100 puts the bullet nearly 3.7" high for my average shot. To me that's way too high above my line of sight. I zero for 200, which is just over 1.5" @ 100 and if I have a longer shot I'll compensate for drop.

You have to cast farther to catch bigger fish.grin

Same here, or 2.75, and it puts me dead on at 300 with the flat stuff.

I will go 1.5 high with the 22-250 for good night hunting for coyotes.

OOps

A rule of thumb that holds true across almost all cartridges firing bullets in the 2800 fps range with typical BC is if sighted in 2" high a 100 yards, the bullet will be dead on a 200, 8" low at 300, and 24" low at 400 yards (2-0-8-24). Easy to remember.

I like dead nuts at 100 yds; that's my nominal zero. For the reason Saddlesore mentioned.

Most of my rifles... errr... all of my rifles have some sort of turret, which I have verified the function of as far as tracking and RTZ. Point being, I have spun up to 2" high at 100 yds in more open country.

A nominal 100-yd zero with the ability to dial up to something more like a MPBR zero is the best of all worlds IMHO.

Well ya you boys over there can't toss over your shoulder and hope to find it. It is more open were freckels were born.

Originally Posted by Esox357

How high should I sight in my 30.06 and 25.06?

I think the standard was 1 1/2 inch high at 100, but have seen some recommend up to 2 1/2 inches? Which is correct. Thanks.

There is no universally correct number. You have to decide what trajectory you want (i.e. maximum rise above line of sight) and zero accordingly. The easiest way to get a feel for your trajectory is to use a ballistic calculator. Once armed with this basic information you can study the effect of various zero points on the trajectory and determine what zero point is best for your needs.

I generally zero for Maximum Point Blank Range for a target 6� in diameter. This allows a maximum bullet rise of 3� above Line Of Sight, with MPBR being at the point where the bullet is 3� below LOS. Think of it like shooting down a pipe 6� in diameter. For many of my loads this translates to a zero about 2.7� high at 100 yards. For example, using default altitude (500�), temp (70 degrees) and scope height (1.5�) data for my calculator:

.30-06, 150g AccuBond (BC .435), 2991fps
+2.61� @ 100
+0.0� @ 252
MPBR = 296

I've always used 2 1/2" to 3" high at 100 yards for my hunting rifle. Shooting a 175 grain Partition at 2800 fps gives this load a 250 yard zero. This was what Bob Hagel recommended and I have shot this setup for so long that is "dialed in" to my aiming method. If an animal is within 300 yards I get the best rest I can and shoot them in or through the boiler room. I don't even worry about the elevation of the actual impact because the bullet takes care of the heavy lifting. I just need to do my part and not flub the shot.

With typical deer rifles 270 308 etc. I sight in at 200. Some rifles will be 1.5 @ 100 and others may be 1.75 to 2 @ 100. I've always considered the ??how high @ 100 to be simply a by product of a 200 yd zero.

Pretty much the only reason I don't like the 3" high at 100 setup is the fact that a lot of my game is shot at 150-200yds. If my POI at that distance is bumping 4" high and my rifle is capable of shooting MOA, the bullet could be landing 4.5-5" above point of aim. Lots of my hunting takes place on cleared lanes that may be old woods roads or pipeline right-of-ways. While I can often see a considerable distance, shot presentations are usually very quick, with only a few seconds for evaluation and shooting. When a "shooter" is coming across my lane chasing a doe at 175yds, it is hard for me to remember to hold at the bottom of the vitals. I just know I better get the crosshairs in the kill-zone and shoot. This typically means center lungs in my sight picture. I've shot quite a few deer with high-lung or a lucky spine hit at that range when running 3" high at 100 zeros, so I keep falling back to a 3" midrange rise or less. If the animal is at 300yds or more, I'll take the time to judge things more closely and if he gets away, he just gets away. Were I hunting in open country and shot presentations lasted more than a few seconds, I could see the use in running a zero of greater range and adapting to hold low at easy-to-estimate medium distances.

I've found out that no matter what it's sighted in for at a 100 it's a good idea to shoot it at longer distances to confirm where it's actually hitting. Sight in formulas don't always match what your rifle is doing.

Most of my elk have been killed between 2 and 300 yards. The 300 and STW are both sighted in at 300, no hold over out to 350 or so.

3" high will be just right, no reason to adjust unless you are shooting for an eye.

I sight every centerfire I own 2" high @ 100 yards and that's high enough. I've learned over the years that if I miss something, the odds are that I will have shot over its back. With this sight-in I'm a little less likely to do that than with a 3" high sight in.

Thanks again guys, I think I have traditionally gone with the 200 yard zero, but will give the 3" high a try to see how I like it. I think both methods have value.

A lot of you need to refer to a ballistic drop chart. Your numbers are way off...

I use between 1.5 and 2 inches high for about all of my big game rifles. .22-250 is at 1 inch high

I don't use any ballistic drop charts. My figures are always by actual shooting

Originally Posted by saddlesore

I don't use any ballistic drop charts. My figures are always by actual shooting

Same here - visually estimate the yardage and if it's doable, then go for it.

Originally Posted by saddlesore

I don't use any ballistic drop charts. My figures are always by actual shooting

Actual shooting is always necesary to confirm drops. I run the ballistics to get an idea of wha t to expect, confirm at variuos ranges, then adjust the ballistic calculations to mat the drops. The result is a table that matches actual drops at known ranges and provides additional data for points in-between.

More and more, though, I just use a scope with a drop compensating retilce, not the aim points for various ranges and interpolate for the points in-between.

I usually sight in for 200 yards here locally. Most of the deer hunting I've done in the last 35 years has been in brushy, rolling pastures. Not many shots have come the far side of 200. When we go west I usually put them 2" high at 100 figuring for 6-8" low at 300 depending on what I'm shooting. The place we elk hunt has lots of dark timber. Might as well use a 45-70 with a 100 yard zero there.

some day I would love to just tag along and watch you kill one of those hog muleys you have a nack for finding. Awesome as always.

Originally Posted by JGRaider

Shooting through timber isn't an issue in my world.

+1 on the guys mentioning verification of your drop figures. I've found JBM and a chronograph to usually put me really close, but I like to check things out against my steel targets.

I use a 200 yard zero
then use 1st dot at 300
2nd dot 400
big post for 500
so far i have hit every shot from 200- 400
that being an 8 inch steel plate
will practice the 500 yard shots this summer...
6x36 Leupold dots..i like this scope

Originally Posted by Elkmen

Most of my elk have been killed between 2 and 300 yards. The 300 and STW are both sighted in at 300, no hold over out to 350 or so.

3" high will be just right, no reason to adjust unless you are shooting for an eye.

That's the way we have been doing it around here since before I was born.

I have not killed a lot of elk, but I did get a bull this year, at 325 lasered yds with the STW zeroed at 300. I just held dead on.

I would rather hold down a bit at 175 yds than hold over at 325 yds.

I have killed a bunch of deer with an old '06 using the 165 gr ballistic tip at 2900 fps mv.

The chart taped onto the stock read: 100 yds: +4; 200 yds: +4.7; 300 yds: 0; 400 yds: -11, 500 yds: -30

That trajectory never prevented me from killing a 2 inch tall ground squirrel at 175 yds, let alone a deer or elk.

I like spot on for 200 yards, and that is how I zero the current love of my life a 7mm Remington Mag and 150 gr Fusions. I then made up my own chart by shooting from 25 yards out to 400 yards. I was working out in California and there was a really great rifle range I could get to on the week ends. Here in CT, the shooting is not long, most shots will be well under 100 yds. Most will zero spot on for that distance. My neighbor who is new to hunting and shooting zeroed in a 30-30 Marlin for that, and collected his two deer with it with out much fuss. The way I have my 7mm RM sited with those fusions, I can just hold on the lungs and just shoot to dam near 300 yards. If I hold on the back, I can map good solid killing shots out to 350 yards or so. And that is a long shot for a guy who dose to shoot the distances a lot.

I like dead nuts on at 100.

Temp and altitude make big differences on drops and part of the reason for various disagreements on the 'Fire

I've sighted all of my rifles in 2.5" high at 100 yards for quite a while. It puts most of them dead on at 25 yards and for a 270, dead on again at 250 yards. I don't get many 100 yard shots, mainly under 30 yards in the timber or 200 yards plus in a meadow.

Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter

I would rather hold down a bit at 175 yds than hold over at 325 yds.

Aiming low on an animal is so counter-intuitive that it just doesn't work in the real world, IMHO. If that's the way you do things, more power to you. I'll stick with my 200 yard zero and dots.

Long ago I ran across an idea to remember drop. With a 200 yard zero, if one remembers his 300 yard drop (in inches), the 400 yard drop will be roughly 3 times the 300 yard, and the 500 will be twice the 400.

This comes pretty close with the general 243,270,'06 type rounds.

Originally Posted by prairie_goat

Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter

I would rather hold down a bit at 175 yds than hold over at 325 yds.

Aiming low on an animal is so counter-intuitive that it just doesn't work in the real world, IMHO. If that's the way you do things, more power to you. I'll stick with my 200 yard zero and dots.

There's nothing counter intuitive about it. You just have to know your gun, know your trajectory, and know how to judge range. Of course, now days they have these handy things you carry around on your belt which take all the guesses out of range estimation.

I guarantee, it is no harder to aim five inches below a four ounce rodent at 175 yds, than it is to aim 7 1/4 inches over at 300 yds.

One has to consider where one's game is most likely to be encountered. In the area I have hunted since I first went with my folks at five years of age in 1960, the vast majority of our shots are over 250 yds. In this country, a 300 yd zero makes good sense.

From what I have seen of the wetland forests around Portland Or, (for example) a fifty yard zero would be more appropriate.

With items like the 25/06-120,270-130,7 mag-160, I like 3" high at 100.Such zero puts me POA at 275-300 yards.

A top of the back hold will easily drop a bullet into the chest of deer sized game at 400 yards.From 20 feet to 300 yards hold center of chest.On elk, you are still holding on hair.You can shade slightly at 175-200 and still kill neatly.

This is fast,very uncomplicated;and very useful when a big mule deer buck is slithering through oak brush,distance constantly changing,across a canyon,or a bull elk is moving through screening cover and turning 200 yards into 400 in seconds;or a rutting whitetail buck is hustling across a cut line at 300 yards.

It also works in the woods at under 100,since you are about an inch high at 50 yards, if that...

You might overshoot a coyote at 175 if you don't hold low,but I don't care about coyotes when hunting BG.

This can be modified somewhat with faster stepping magnums or very high BC bullets at magnum velocity,which seem to show more mid range;or for varmints....again, different ball game.

Dots and turrets take over past 400....for me,to that distance or less,they aren't needed.

Esox357,
I'm probably a little different than many, but this has worked for years for my wife and I. I suggest to run a ballistic program for your particular combination. Find out what gives you a 300yard zero.For my wife's .338 Win.Mag. and my .375AI this equates to 4" high at 100 yards, 10" to 11" low at 400 yrds. This means for big game "hold on hair" out to 400 and bring home meat. the biggest problem that we occassionally encounter is that on small targets,coyotes,fox,ect. you must be vigilant to be aware that at around 180 yrds. your trajectory peaks out (approx. 6"),and over shooting the target is easy to do!! This sight-in works well for us. Good Luck with your decision. memtb

I used to sight in my hunting rifles 3" high at 100 yd., but went to dead on at 100 because I never get to shoot farther than that while hunting.

I sight all my hunting rifles 3" high at 100 yards.Where I hunt shots can be in your face or way out there...

As long as I am aiming at hair,I am fine out to atleast 400 yards+ with my major hitters and and 22" drop an Elk gives you from the spine down to the vitals!

Jayco

i zero my 300 rum at 100 but turn the turret up to 3 inches high at a 100 while hunting, which has me dead on at 330.

For me it depends on what kind of critter I am shooting at.
For varmints the over/under needs to be smaller that 3 or 4 inches.
Yours might be different.

My deer rifles are dead on at 100. The farthest shot I've ever taken was 125. That was with my .450 Marlin and the stars had to align just perfectly for that one. I think it was the only spot in our little chunk of the Adirondack park where you can even see farther than 75 yds!

Most of them have been between 25' and 40 yds.

I hunt deer almost every year in the east and the west and things never work out the way you plan...

My last mule deer buck had to be killed hard crossing on the run at about 80 yards with little time to do it,after he had been jumped off a buck brush flat.

Then I got home, and after poking around in thickets all day took a stand on a power line and killed an 8 point that lopped across a power line at a bit over 300 yards,chasing a doe in heat.

The western deer was killed at eastern ranges,and the eastern deer at western ranges.....but both were killed neatly with rifles zeroed 3" high at 100 yards;the 270 with 130 Partition down 3" at 300, and the 7 Mashburn with 160 Partition hitting POA at that distance,which made the 300+ yard shot easier considering that the buck was across that power line very quickly, with not a lot of time to kill him.

Up in Northern Maine I heard a volley of shots up ahead on an abandoned logging road that went straight up the ridge through a big cut...I got up ahead and found a somewhat shaken young guy from PA with a scoped 30-30.He said this pretty big buck had snuck behind him in thick stuff(too thick to shoot at about 30 yards),and the buck paralled the road,staying iin cover,and then popped onto the road at about 250 yards.

He had "heard" that all shots in Maine were close in thick stuff so brought his 30-30 (instead of his 30/06),zeroed POA at 100 yards.He stood almost no chance to sort all this out and the shots I heard were him hitting under the buck which naturally got away...wrong cartridge,but even more wrong on the zero,and what could have saved waives of dissapointment because the success rates in Maine on any deer run about 10%,never mind a 200# plus mature buck.

My biggest Maine buck was shot at 300 yards;2 of the biggest mule deer I have seen in the last 10 years or so,were at 30 feet,and maybe 60 yards.

I've forgotten having pre-conceived notions of how and when an animal is going to show up,because you just never know.

The biggest mule deer I ever saw I could of killed with a load of 6's to the back of the head. I thought about doing just that, because I damn near stepped on the deer whilst pheasant hunting.

Scott they hold tighter than a person would think...especially the grown up ones.

Either that,or they will react and move out if they detect evil intent at very long distances...I have moved them out at over a half mile and 1500 feet higher....I know because I moved them into a friend as I climbed the mountain....never saw them myself.

One of those bucks mentioned at like 30 feet or so, only went out after I fish hooked back through in bedding cover.....he let me walk right by the first time I went through.At that,I stood in one spot for maybe 3 minutes or so and shuffled around before his nerves broke.He was BIG!

I tend to also use a low zero, my shots generally run 20 to 70 yards. In the last 20 years, only two have been right at 100 yards, and one was 236 yards.

The rest have been powder burn to about 70 yards, and I shoot 3 to 4 deer a year.

2.5" high at 100 gives me a MPBR of 285 yards.
If I can see 'em, I aim right at 'em.

Originally Posted by BobinNH

Scott they hold tighter than a person would think...especially the grown up ones.

Boy, ain't that the truth!

JG: I seen where you hunt.I know you have seen it, too.

Originally Posted by BobinNH

... things never work out the way you plan...

...
I've forgotten having pre-conceived notions of how and when an animal is going to show up,because you just never know.

Amen to that.

We sat on this hill and watched elk come off a mountain a mile away. I prepared for a 400-600 yard shot with the longer ranges being more likely.

As it turned out the elk walked right up to me. I ended up declining a shot at 25 feet and taking one at closer to 30 yards.

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Double post, deleted

I'm in the 100 yard zero camp. I'm more likely to have to shoot through a softball sized opening at 50-150 yards than take a shot at 300 so I don't need to be guessing where the bullet will hit.

If I do have to take a 300 yard shot, any of my rifles still shoot flat enough to 300 that I can still hold on hair and make hits. Anything over 200 just gets the crosshairs on the top of the back.

I can't see complicating things at the ranges where we all are most likely to shoot to gain very little advantage at longer ranges, where we are less likely to shoot. My 30-06 loads are only 4.5" lower at 300 yards with a 100 yard zero than with a 200 yard zero. 11" vs 6.5"

I also agree. You can never tell when or where they will appear. Heck, I've often thought I was doing well if I saw them at all.....
My own practice is to zero where the bullet flies no higher than 3 inches on it's way to the zero point. This allows some opening of the field group all the way to at least 250 yds. with anything that flies close to 2700 fps. I've got a good chance to thread the bullet through a hole in cover, or to hold over a bit if he's out there some.
I find, too, that it helps if I can dial up a bit, or down for that matter if time permits. Having a simple reticle, like the leupold duplex is another plus. It allows quick ranging for those "kinda long and gotta shoot quick" shots. E

I zero at 200. An inch or two high at 100 is a good starting point but the only way to know where a rifle hits at any range is to shoot that range. Those that adjust n amount high at 100 and call it good might be surprised to see where your bullets hit if you actually shoot at 200 or 300.

Originally Posted by Steelhead

The biggest mule deer I ever saw I could of killed with a load of 6's to the back of the head. I thought about doing just that, because I damn near stepped on the deer whilst pheasant hunting.

Reminds me of a hunt near to 40 years ago. While hunting quail, the dog pointed a brush pile and a whitetail doe bounded out. My Dad decided to make her speed up and when he shot the doe rolled like a cottontail. Should've seen the look on his face! Well, that ended the quail hunt and started the deer cleaning.

I zero for 200 yards on most guns. never more than that. 100 yard zero for my 35 whelen.

lochsa,

I zero my Whelen at 200. You might want to try it. You might be surprised at how flat it shoots. Mine doesn't go over 3 inches high with a 200 yard zero shooting 250gr slugs. Just a suggestion.