Looking over the ballistics of the 165 stuffed into a 300 WSM, it shoots flatter than my 7 mags running a 160 and dang close to 140 capability.

A. What velocities are capable with a 165 and a 24" barrel? Books list up to 3175.

B. 165 Accubonds at 3100+ - they holding together? The 140's at 7 mag vels don't stay together real well at close range.

I load 168gr Barnes TSX for a friends 300WSM, and he gets 3,175fps out of his Browning with excellent accuracy.

I can assure you, a Barnes TSX, or TTSX, will hold together at very close range.

I used 165 Accubonds outta my 300 WSM. Worked great. Held togather extremly well. Shot deer as close as 20 yards out to 300+. Performed just like they should. Found a few perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the longer shots.

Perfect choice, IMO. The 165gr TSX is all I shoot in my Montana .300 WSM.

168gr TTSX at 3100 in my 300WSM.

I've used 180 AB's in my 300 WSM. They're pure crap. I've had 2 completely blow up and the meat destruction in the rest is more than I'll put up with.

I'm loading 64.5grs of Winchester 760 with 165gr Hornady Interbonds,COL is 2.850,velocity is 3125fps and prints nice little groups with my rifle.I have never recovered one yet.Game killed with this bullet are mostly whitetails,but have also taken an elk and nilgia with them.

165 grain in the 300WSM should be a smokin' deadly load if accurate. BTW, I load 180 AB, in my Rem. 700, SPS, 300WSM. This is a very accurate load and has accounted for 15 big game animals in the continental U.S. and South Africa. All dead upon arrival. No blown up meat and no complaints about not being dead enuf! MTG

Hmmmm..maybe I should try a 165 in mine...

Don't have it any more, but that's what I was getting too. Worked awesome.

Dave

Two loads worked well for me...66 H4350-165 NPT;and 72 RL22 with the same bullets.I also ran the above loads with the 165 Sierra,and it was an accurate bullet with both powders.

In my rifles velocities were in the 3125-3140 range.

Never got to try them on game in the WSM, but in the 300 Win Mag the 165 Partition was a bomb on anything we used it on up to elk and the 165 Bitterroot was equally good.I can't recall we ever recovered a Partition from anything we killed with that load.

...............Should you desire to take things a step further beyond 3175, Alliant`s listing of 68 gr RL17 behind a 165 gr Speer shows 3217 fps (24" barrel).

Hodgdon`s listing of 72 gr Superformance behind a 165 gr Nosler Part shows 3273 fps (24" barrel) @ 63,500 psi.

Not in my rifle. Anything over 65gr of RL17 and the 168TTSX is too hot. 64.5 is good for about 3145, but settled on 64gr of RL17 under the 168TTSX for 3100. Good enough. Just started using it. One MD, one bull moose so far.

Oh you mean regular ol 165's? Like good ol Hornady interlocks. Ok, I've tried a few in mine ......:



Work great on deer too...

b: That'll change at 500-600...assuming of course you start the 160's at full potential.

As blasphemous as it sounds, 165's at 3100+, especially the AB, make my 7 WSM unnecessary..............

Am thinking seriously of thinning the herd for simplicity. The 300 WSM covers alot of ground at a recoil level not much different than an 06. In fact, max loads in a 7lb 06 recoil more than my loads in an 8lb 300 WSM (180 at 2950). My M70 EW in 300 WSM balances nice and is a good all around weight and length. I dig that gun.

Prolly keep the 180's for elk - they work wonderfully every time. Many folks like the TSX/TTSX for elk, I still can't imagine a better bullet than the ol' Partition. I've shot alot of game with various Nosler products and find the 1948 version the bestest.

I've haven't shot many 165's of any flavor in the 30 cals. Its always been 150 for smaller critters and 180's for bigger. The 165 always seemed a compromise for some reason. Am starting to think a 165 Partition at 3100+ may be the best answer to everything that walks in NA.

According to my ballistic program, a 165 AB, started at 3150 shoots 2" flatter at 500 yards than a 160 Partition started at 3000 in my 7 WSM. Not that 2" at 500 yards means anything......

Edited to add - just ran the 165 Partition at 3100 against the 160 7mm at 3000, the 165 still shoots flatter at 500 - by 0.4".

b: This 7mm vs 30 discussion may go on forever Here's what I have noticed...

Back when I had both magnum 30's and 7RM,I would load 180's in the 300 Win and Weatherby to about 3100 fps for both,zeroed them the same, and shot them to 600.Same with the 160 7mm.

Those two were basically neck and neck,although the 7mm would show slightly low at 300 yards, the 30-180 was slightly high...by the time I got to 600, the 7mm was shading the 180 30....not by a lot,but you could see it on the targets.From that standpoint what one will do the other will do and both showed about 48" of drop at 600.

Yeah I can dig that if the 165 30 has a 150 fps advantage out of the box,it will shoot flatter....but this ain't apples to apples since a 165 30 is about like a 140 7mm(the 160 7mm being more like a 180 gr 30)....and you will pick up a velocity advantage of the 7mm 140 in the 7RM,pretty easily hitting 3250.the tables will turn.

I think if we are to compare, I'm gonna start them both at the same speed(apples to apples)....

Anyway I've eliminated the need for the discussion by blowing 160's out of the Mashburn at,or a bit below, 3200 fps....this gets me to 600 yards with the dots and reticle of a 6x36 Leupold with no need for anything else......who needs a 300 WSM?

This is the load I shoot with 168 BT's.

...........Yep! That`s enough speed to get `er done using 168s.

Apparently your particular rifle when compared with Alliant`s maximum RL17 listings, cannot accept loads quite as high without going too hot; ie Alliant`s maximum listing of 66 gr RL17 w/180 gr Speers @ 3082 fps and their max listing of 68 gr RL17 w/165 Speer @ 3217 fps.

67.8 gr of RL17 behind a 168 VLD gets me 3040 fps, while 66 gr of RL17 behind a 180 gr Horn IB gets 2917 fps from a 16.5" tubed 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact. No pressure signs. Another 1/2 to 3/4 gr with either load shows signs of pressure. Those speeds ime, can only come from a combo of a faster bore (in my particular rifle) and RL17..........I`ll take em.

Performance from one rifle to the next due to chambers and bores can be interesting.

Perhaps sooner 'pending on the bullets in each...

Velocity Wind Drift

That said, they are both great cartridges!

TakeEm: Cant download the graphs....I'll take your word for it....

A "step beyond"? No offense intended, but pardon me why I LOL. 37 feet per second over 3175 is just over .00l difference. Insignificant. I seriously doubt it will make any difference in accuracy (it could, I suppose, if the rifle is particularily twitchy) and certainly not to any game hit at any range... That small difference is likely within the variables of a single box of reloaded factory brass, once fired, unless sorted and all those other time-wasting things done. (I limit myself to cleaning, deburring the inside primer hole, trimming to length, and neck-sizing, then chamber checking each round for feed, whether bottleneck or belted magnums).

I must admit, I have never chronoed my loads - I'm more interested in accuracy. Shooting a few rounds at 100, 200, and 300 (occaisionally 400) yards gives me a pretty good idea of the ballistics involved for hunting purposes, to 500 yards- as far as I'm going to shoot on purpose.

................No offense intended back. You can laugh all you want.

Of course an additional 37 or even 100 fps won`t make any difference in the field on any game hunted.

The first part (A) of OP`s question, related to nothing more than maximum capable velocities when using a 165 grain bullet fired from a 24" barreled 300 WSM.

All I did was mention two listed or published loads that are capable of exceeding 3175 fps.

Using those loadings, any other issues where accuracy and brass life is concerned etc, is left up to the user`s discretion to make changes where necessary.

Working up loads carefully 1/2 grain at a time, I have taken my three rifles to their limits (until pressure signs are seen and then backing off a 1/2 grain) just to see what they are capable of doing. That does not mean that I always use max loadings and it should not imply that I use them for hunting. In my three rifles, reducing the charges anywhere from a 1 1/2 gr to 3 gr gives the better accuracy.

Now I suppose that IF you did have a chrony, it may be possible that your curiosity might take over a little and test the velocity limits of your rifles?.....Naaaaa!

I would look long and hard at the 168gr Ballistic Tip for this application.

Versus the 165 Accubond? I'm curious why.

Thanks.

Im shooting 165 gr nosler solid bases in one of mine.
Super accurate.
Now to shoot a critter with it and see how they perform.
Im running imr4350 in this one.

The 168 has a nice thick jacket. A bit beefier than the 165's.

b: I think a 165 in the 300WSM is a good match....you have a lot of different bullets of that weight to choose from, too....sort of splashy one's to tough penetrators.

A word of caution with the 300 WSM.Some of these rifles have freebore and some don't.Mine in particular is one that doesn't.There is no way I could get up to some the published max loads.One example,I tried to get up to Alliant's 68.0gr max with Reloader-17 using a 165gr bullet and quit when 65.0grs gave me 3160fps with poor grouping and 66.0grs gave me even poorer groups with the velocity of 3228fps.I don't even want to know what I would have got if I had went straight to 68.0grs.I usually have to stay about two grain below most manuals for most powders listed.What happens with the ones that have very little freebore is,the pressure shoots up quicker when the bullet makes contact with the lead of the lands unlike the longer tapered leads on the freebored rifles.My rifle shoots great,gets the velocity up there with less powder but,I have to be very careful with the seating depth.So my word of caution and I know mine is not the only one out there,is always start low and work your way up,every rifle is slightly different.

How far off the rifiling were you seating bullets?

Agree in general on freebore vs no freebore but have found guns with normal throating can reach most published max charges.

As to Re 17, I'm not entirely sure thats a freebore thing as much as it an Re 17 thing. I can't reach Alliant's max charge in many of my rifles. I think they're a bit optimistic.

I'm running.040 off the lands.

I used to run 165g interbonds at 3100 over H414. I killed a couple of different bucks with it and it worked great. I actually recovered one bullet and had a big wide mushroom and still had most of its weight. I found they penetrate better at longer range because they don't expand as wide and they can dig deeper when they hit going a little slower.

The 165 IB is an awesome bullet if you're rifle will shoot them. I've had mixed results accuracy wise in my rifles.

Bb

Mr Winters:

This ain't apples - apples because this is 300 Win Mag (aka real mag) I am NOT anti WSM, but I've been setup for the Win M so long there is nothing for me to gain and only added expense.

I posted this in the 1/2" gun thread. In the Rem 700 BDL, 24" bll, 73 gr IMR 4350 gave an 'average' of 3200 fps. In THIS gun it was NOT max. I wanted 3200 with the 165 and got it with ease.

As you can see accuracy was not too shabby altho not 1/2". Those HBTSP worked well on WT. Note - I don't shoot shoulders or hams or buttholes(on deer).

Last Fall I put a couple of 168 gr. Berger VLD hunting bullets into a moose at about 300 yards. No idea of the velocity but the load in use was nicely accurate. Actually I was just following up on an initial hit by a buddy with a 300 WM with 200 gr. Ptn. The moose didn't go down but was spraddle legged and follow up seemed desirable. Not sure whether the same load will be used this year or if something else will be tried.

Jim

165 Accubond
68.5 gr. H4350
CCI 250
2.308 oal
3050 fps

Makes one hole groups in my gun.

Very nice!

I've run a few WM's and 3200 is very doable with 165's. My last liked Re 22 under 168 TSX's for very similar groups and ran 3175. The only hesitation I have with the AB's is my experience with the 7mm 140 - they tend to cause a mess at close range and didn't exit. I haven't tried the 7mm 160 because my gun shoots 160 Partitions well.

I've also shot 2 elk with the 180 AB at 2900+. At close range they put a golfball size hole through both - and exited. Apparently, different size AB's have different jackets. I'm wondering where the 30 cal 165 lies on the jacket thickness scale.

Jim,probably the same as you I keep putting bullets into moose til' the legs go up in the air!I've never found a bull yet that ended up in a better place to process him than that at which he was first shot,and I don't mind losing some rib meat.I run the 168 TSX in my .300WSM. Cheers,Monashee

165's and 168's and even 150's have worked great for elk in my .30-06s. Can't think why a 165 wouldn't work even better in from WSM.

[Edited to add...]

The bullets I've used were 165g North Fork SS (2 elk), 168g TTSX (deer and antelope) and 150g AccuBond (1 elk). I wouldn't run standard cup and cores in a WSM due to concern about close range (high velocity) impacts and excessive fragmentation. YMMV.

I ran the 168 TTSX's in my 300 wsm with very good accuracy when I was in Africa. I'm hoping to go chase some bears this year over the counter here in Az, and I am thinking the 300 wsm and 168 TTSX combo will get the nod!

Might have to get my 300wsm out and dust her off...