I'm assuming ranges would be 50-75 yards.

Would something light that would deliver more shock but that will hold together like the 160 gr. Barnes TTSX or something heavy that will penetrate like a .250 gr. Nosler Accubond be a better choice?

I'd be looking at the 225 gr TTSX for that close and size critter

Copper bullets are long for weight, which is why I was looking at something light-for-caliber. Would the 225 TTSX intrude on the powder area too much?

When hunting brown bears with the 338/06 I'd prefer something like a 210-225 NPT or 225 NAB.

180 or 210 TTSX. Run the 210 TTSX or 250 NPT in my Winny when gunning for Brownies.

210 ttsx out of mine has impressed me on moose so far.

I'd never take a light bullet to a big bear...

I may be inclined to run to 225 ttsx actually...

My guide buddy had me load 225 and 250 barnes in his 338 win mag as a backup gun for many many years.... no issues there....stoppped more than a couple of bears for clients.

I'd likely go with the 210 TTSX in the copper.
210 or 225 NP, 225 A-Frame, or 225 North Fork would be other grand options.

210 gr PT would be my choice.

225 gr 338 Northfork.

So the consensus of opinion is something in the 210-225 gr. area?

The 210 gr Partiton and 338-06 are the perfect pair. Throw them at 2800 fps and they flat penetrate and kill.

I load 210gr TTSX for 338WM for friends and they flat work... Complete pass-throughs every time end to end.

I have never witnessed a pass-through with an Accubond, even when it was .375, 270 grainers broadside through the ribs.

Well that's good info. Any experience with the 210 partitions?

There has never been a 270 gr 375 Accubond.


I would go with EdM's suggestion of the 210 Partition and maybe add the 225 gr Accubond.

Well, the box said they were 270 grain Accubonds and they came directly from Nosler as custom loads in early 2014? I did not load them and did not make any attempt at weighing them.

I am curious and will stop in next week at SHOT and ask.

Thank you very much for the information, which looks right on their site.

Pard uses that in his 340Wtby, but that's a little bigger caliber as you know.

You are correct that lighter bullets might give a little more shock but heavier bullets are more likely to penetrate a little further and more reliably.
All the bullets mentioned should work but for close range I would recommend 210 grains or more.

Yeah, those two extra thousandths make an enormous difference!

No one has addressed that, actually. If you were loading the .338-06, and .338 WM, and .340 Weatherby or even more powerful .338 of some kind, would your bullet choice differ?

postoak, lots of good choices - find one of mentioned choices above that shoots and go hunting.

I was in the same quandary a few years back. And after the fact, was disappointed that I spent more than 5 minutes sweating/obsessing it.

Yes.

I have seen the 210 PT do some incredible stuff in elk out of a 338 Win Mag in the past. I know it is probably blasphemy but it penetrates really well, seems like the partition is moved sorta forward in it so it retains a good amount of weight and kills elk well.

If I was specifically hunting those ginormous brown bear in Alaska I might step up to a 250 PT or Northfork, but I wouldn't stay home if the 210 PT was what I had.

I would think your 338-06 should easily get 2400 with a 250 anything, and probably better. Good luck.

I've captured quite a few .338/250 partitions in our Sitka BT's, so I doubt they'd pass thru a brownie. I'd want full penetration if at all possible. This leads you to the TSX/TTSX, or failsafe (good luck finding them).

In 2008, I used the 225 gr AB on BC grizzly and black bear with all ending well. The 210 gr Partition has worked very well for me on a handful of elk.

Out of my 338WM, the 210 NPT has given good results. I also used the 225 Hornady IB in 2004 on a very good bear. Broke a shoulder and kept going. I've since switched to the 225 NAB and expect similar results.

275 Speer has always worked for me in a 338/06.

MM: Not yanking your chain,,,, but am curious about this, since i've killed a substantial number of deer a lot bigger than any Sitka black tail with piss ant 270,7mm,and 30 caliber cartridges, Partitions ranging from 130 to 180 grains. I've had a hard time keeping them in the animals and have had the overwhelming majority exit on normal shots.

Also seen the 210-225-250 338's used on elk with pretty much the same results (210's recovered going pretty much lengthwise).


Are you guys shooting these deer lengthwise or something? The 250-338 has been successfully used on Cape Buffalo.

How many times have you seen this happen? If it's frequent I'd be concerned, too.

Only a sample of one, but .375 300 grain North Forks worked great for me, may want to look at their .338 lineup. Also, as mentioned TSX/TTSX or NP's would be right there as well IMO. Most all of the guides in my trips to Alaska were toting .338 Win Mags stuffed with 250 grain NP's, makes a lot of sense.

I would think you meant the 275 in the .375, but Speer doesn't make one of those for that caliber either.

I assume "BT" means blacktail deer. The comment about a 250 grain .338 bullet stopping in them made me skeptical too.

No, I mean the 338/275 they used to make. Fantastic bullet, wish they would make a run again, I'm down to three hundred softs and at least that many solids.

True. Speer did offer a .338 275gr "Hot Cor", since discontinued, I believe. Swift still offers a 275gr A-frame. Some of the 300 heavies are more geared toward the Lapua cartridge.

At those ranges one could also consider a heavy Woodleigh with high SD and terrific momentum.

Hah

I'm skeptical about using heavier bullets. Are some of you forgetting this is for a .338-06? I'm afraid anything above 250 would be going too slow to expand properly -- not sure about penetration.

It is a pretty good shooting bullet in my 338 as well. Runs about 2650 or so with RL22 out of my gun. Shot it into water filled 1 gallon just and it did very well at that speed. Haven't shot anything with them, but it was found in the 8th jugs and retained about 180-190 grains if I remember correctly..











If it was the SS Speer you were shooting at around 2250 or so out of your 338-06 I wouldn't worry about expansion, but with the super bullets like the 210 PT, 225 Swifts, Nosler's and Northforks, I would just enjoy the extra speed, cause they will penetrate as far and give you a little extra if you were required to shoot longer.

I'm the odd duck when it comes to the 338-06. I've chosen the 180gr Nosler Accubonds and 200gr Nosler Combined Technology bullets.

I've found that the 180gr bullets will handle most game with ease and doesn't damage a lot of meat. I'm currently having a replica of my 338-06 built, a trusty 30-06. I may start using the 200gr bullets more in the 338-06 since the 30-06 will be loaded with 165gr pills.

Folks using the .225-.250gr bullets in the 338-06 are doing the right thing. They typically have a higher BC than the lower grain bullets in .338 caliber.

Well, for me, and my 50-75 yards, BC means diddlysquat. SD is where it is at. The issue is to not have so much SD that speeds are so low that you lose too much shocking power.

I suspect that 210-225 is the sweet spot based on these posts.

Having shot quite a few huge bodied Sitka bucks I think you seriously underestimate the weights on the biggest bucks...

Wikipedia says they are smaller than other subspecies of mule deer, about 120 pounds. Is that not right?

Its really hard to believe that even a 300 pound deer would stop a 250 gr .338 bullet.

When they live in the old growth they are smaller than the open areas like southern Kodiak Island. One year we shot 14 bucks and 9 of them were over 200 hanging with tracheas cut out and lower legs removed. They were all mature deer.

A typical yearling buck will weigh 110-140 gutted from the open areas. I had the luxury of extremely accurate scales on fishing boats when weighing a large number of them after dragging them off the mountain.

If I were being guided by someone like Phil Shoemaker I wouldn't worry about it BUT my thoughts would be ---- the closer the range the bigger bullet I'd want - that is, if the choice was between 180gr and 225gr I'd take the bigger bullet everytime.

The first brown bear I was while hunting on my own is Alaska was during a heavy rain in SE Alaska and he looked a VW with fur as he came out of brush at about 200 yards and walked along the beach away from me and my partner. We never got much closer before he turned and waded up a stream. I was carrying a .338 but I decided without that I wouldn't take a going-away shot especially with his fur being soaked with water.

Up until point I thought the .338 was the perfect rifle for Alaska but when I got to town I started looking for a .375 H&H which I used for the remainder of assigment in Alaska taking several moose, more caribou, a couple of very large black bear and a 9+ foot Brownie on the same beach on which refused the 1st saw.

And you know the .375 kicked a lot less than the .338 and it was quite a bit quieter.

The only reason I would choose the .338 or the .375 would be if I was into long-range shooting.

Your mileage may vary.

I'd use the 210-225gr. I've used both with the AI version and have settled on the 210gr Scirocco for our giant elk and moose. It holds together like nothing I've used. Have used the 225gr IB and AB with good results too. Energy with both weights is indistinguishable with this caliber. The ballistics are
better with the Scirocco but that probably won't matter at the distances you're dealing with.

I used to say "the more things I shoot the less I know." I'm going to change that to "the more things I shoot, the less 90% of the hunters on the internet know".

Holy crap!

I can't think of aTSX/TTSX that I've shot into an Elk or Moose that went on through. I think I've shot 9 into bulls. Including 338's. These are just mine. Family would increase that number significantly. I have also seen TSX's, partitions, and Accubonds whistle through 300 plus pound mule deer. I've seen a bunch of deer catch all of the above as well.

I've never shot a bear but have shot elk!
I was gonna suggest checking out the 185gr Hornady GMX until I saw that Phil suggests 210+ gr bullet.
He Knows and that's a recommendation I would'nt ignore.

Art how much do they weigh? Dressed or on the hoof?

I have seen quite a few but not during the fall.From pictures they do look like blocky animals.

Edited:I just saw the rest of the thread and it seems an exceptionally large buck will dress in the 200 pound range? That's pretty large for any deer, but not in the class of very large whitetails and mule deer from various other parts of Canada and the lower 48. Whatever...

Point being I've killed a lot of bucks (both whitetail and mule deer) of that size and bigger that couldn't contain a 130-270( two this year),140 and 160-7mm Nosler Partitions.Also 165 and 180 30 caliber from 30/06 and 300 magnums. Here and there I have recovered a few of the 270's and none of the 7mm's or 30 calibers.Even elk could not stop mostly all of the 7mm's and 30's.

I've also watched 338-210's,225's and 250's whistle through elk. So I am surprised that these black tails stop 338-250's. I understand anything can happening on occasion,but can't imagine it on a regular basis.

I was thumbing through the most recent Handloaders Digest and and thought of this thread when I bumped into a picture of Boddington with a pretty large Kamchatka brown bear killed with a 340 Weatherby and 250 Nosler Partition.

By way of preface... I have shot a dozen Booners and one of those in the top 25 all-time B&C. So I have spent more than a little time looking at them.

In really good years; mild winters, early springs, neither too much or too little rain, and a break between bad storms and the back end of the rut the big bucks will easily have 1.5 to 2 inches of fat on the rump.

Normally they are gutted on the mountain and dragged out whole. At the boat the legs are shortened and the neck is opened to remove the trachea and esophagus. In that condition good bucks will be 200 to 220 or so. IIRC the heaviest was just over 240.

That's pretty big...and bigger than I thought.

When I get back from SHOT remind me and I will post some photos.

Me too. This bullet has a long and proven record out of my .338 WMs, so I don't se why similar results can't be achieved from the .338-06.

I had great results with 185gr TTSX on big and small critters but up close like I said I'd up the weight not that the 185gr wouldn't work
I recovered 3 185 gr TTSX one from each Eland, Wildebeest and Zebra
all shots were between 300 and 359 yds

Will do. Thanks!

I'm VERY interested. I've never heard of any B T weighing that much.

Awaiting your return.

Jerry

I haven't hunted brown bear yet, but if I were to do so and use my 338-06, [a rebored pre-64 model 70] it would be loaded with either the 250 gr Swift A Frames at 2500, or the 210 gr Partitions at 2800, I would sincerely hope that would get it done in any situation that may occur.

The most consistent bullet I've seen that goes in and out of big animals is the 130 partition shot from the 270

I am a hoarder because I have two boxes of 338 275s and 4 boxes of 338 230gr fail safes for 'big hunt'. But there is plenty of great bullets now.

Back... it will take a bit for me to get to digging up some photos, but will get on it in short order.

here is an easy shot from PB of the way we would handle boatloads of deer.

Art that's a pile of venison!

They all look like fatties to me! Nice deer!

Yep - those look noticeably bigger than any other BT that I've seen posted.

NICE-

Do you have any more pics you can post? From personal experience I've taken a whole lot more deer/bucks than I have pics that I could post.

I'm very interested.

Thanks


Jerry

How are you guys getting 2800 fps from a .338-06 with 210 PT, 24 inch barrel? I'm barely getting 2700 with mine, which has a 22 inch barrel.

Billy, in the photo, was a very big guy, quarterback at UConn and pitcher, well over six feet and very broad. Those deer IIRC came from the West side of Kodiak, fairly far south. That is out of the trees and the deer are much larger out there than in the heavy forest.

Crime scene for sure!

(You can always tell something's fishy when the hands and feet have been tampered with or removed. Thank God for DNA these days!)

We leave them like that for the whole hunt and skin and cut up in town. They are left on "stringers" over the side in saltwater. Very little meat touches the water and the blood is cleaned up nicely.

Makes it tougher for the Troopers to make a positive ID, for sure.

Like hanging them from rafter ends at a cabin!

Hey Teeder, H-380 is your friend with the 210's, and yes, my barrel is 24"s, let me know if you want the load recipe.

Gunner

MuskegMan,

Here are some quotes from your posts on .338 bullets:

“180 or 210 TTSX. Run the 210 TTSX or 250 NPT in my Winny when gunning for Brownies.”

”73.o gr H4831SC with 250 partition.”

“I've captured quite a few .338/250 partitions in our Sitka BT's, so I doubt they'd pass thru a brownie. I'd want full penetration if at all possible. This leads you to the TSX/TTSX, or failsafe (good luck finding them).”

Not trying to argue. Just suspect you mis-typed when writing you've "captured" quite a few 210 Partitions in Sitka BT's, rather than 250's?

"If" it were me I'd use the 250 NPT and a max. load of H-4895 in my HVA and get as close as I could and shoot him in the "grapefruit" as many times and as fast as I could, which is pretty fast w/the 6 rounds that would be in it (5 down and 1 up).-Muddy

So you pull them around in the water for a few days? Am I reading that right?

If that is so it is an interesting way to keep them. I've always heard that you shouldn't wash game with freshwater because it spreads the bacteria around. I suppose salt water is different and up there it's probably cold enough to keep the meat very well.

Anything in the sea ever nibble on them?

I like the idea of using a 250 gr. bullet more than bullets in the 210-225 gr. range, for the greater penetration. Nosler makes a 250 gr. Accubond -- what do you think of that choice? I can drive it to 2500 fps.

I caught a 150TTSX in a SBT at 30 yards lengthwise. Found under the hide which suffered no damage. That's the only TSX I've caught in anything else I've shot with that.308...including Elk.

Trying to type on a brand new laptop with Windows10 and hating every second of it!

I pull them in to cruise, but mostly we leave the boat in one spot and skiff around. We have left many in the water for over a week.

A river otter decided to claim one once... it will not be a mistake he can repeat... another guy anchored way too shallow and the sea lice hollowed a leg.

We did it the first time because we got some ridiculous cold and wanted to keep them from freezing. It worked so well it became SOP. Lots of people do it now.

I have seen a number of 338WM 210gr X bullets exit a huge Kodiak brown bear lengthwise.

I have seen 4 270gr Accubonds shot into a big Kodiak bear broadside and none made it through. And they did make 270gr Accubonds in 375 according to the folks at the Nosler booth at SHOT. I have yet to see an Accubond of any flavor make an exit wound. That is with a small sample of about 30-40 of them so far.

That's excellent information Sitka. How did the bears react to the Accubonds that didn't pass through?

They died!

But, they had been shot first with the 270gr TSX first.

To be clear, my dissatisfaction with the Accubond is the fact I insist on complete penetration on brown bears. The downrange leak is generally bigger than the entrance leak and I want BP to drop ASAP and secondarily, failing that, I want a generous blood trail.

Bears are not big-boned, the bone is relatively soft, and muscle is pretty much all water. Bullets can find their way through bears pretty easily, IME.

That is not to say bear bones are not extremely tough and quite flexible. Bears evolved to withstand huge blows from other bears and a little give is probably critical to their survival. Bullets were not part of their R&D.

If I were using my 338-06 on big bears it would likely be with a 210 or 225 Partition. If using the TTSX, I'd drop to 185. I think they kill a little better going faster and opening wider. In mine the 225s run a little over 2600. Just picked up some IMR 4451 to try with 210 Partitions.

Note: I contacted Hodgdon and they do have load data for IMR 4451 and the 338-06. Not yet in their online guide though.

Just curious has anyone seen a brownie live an unusually long amount of time on a lung shot?

One of mine did; not an unusually long time,just typical for a lung shot animal under a full load of adrenalin,and long enough to travel (I dunno) maybe 75-80 yards. But in that time it was back in the alders and forest blowdowns.

They are fast....unbelievably fast....a blur. Far faster than we comprehend. And through heavy cover,too.They make a deer or elk look sluggish and slow by comparison and in those few seconds it takes for them to expire from a lung shot,they can get into knarly cover and that's where mine headed.

This happened because I was a dumb bear hunter,did not understand grizzly anatomy,and hit right where I wanted, which was too high on the first shot. I got lucky and got the second in the lungs. You have to hit them very precisely IME and with an eye to holding them where they are if you can.

Agree with Art that lots of blood on the ground is reassuring. I had a LOT from the375- 270 NPT,more than I had ever previously seen from an animal hit with a rifle.

I have seen a number of them live far longer than expected with significant lung damage.

In 2012 a friend killed a huge bear in Uganik Bay with me and we hit it repeatedly full length with 210gr TTSX from the 338WM and 270gr TSX from the 375AI. It is the single most ridiculous example of a tenacious animal I have ever seen. Punched through the center coming and going seven times with complete pass-throughs...

He was a really big bear... he was chasing a little piece of sow up the mountain and objected to our interest in their tryst...

I was hunting with a friend who shot a caribou in the head with a 225 AB out of a .338WM that did not exit. That kind of soured me on them. In the .338-06, I have had good luck with 210 TTSX pushed by Big Game, have never shot a brown bear, but I can't see why a 225 Barnes wouldn't flatten one as well as anything.