Steve, there seems to be a race of hunters prowling about who don't think that the 30-06 is enough gun for African plainsgame -- that the bullets would somehow bounce-off, wouldn't produce a sufficient "bloodtrail", not enough "killing power", etc, etc.....

If you would, how about detailing your own experiences with the 30-06 in Africa?

It might just be illuminating!

AD

Also what bullet you used on your trips across the pond as well.

Thx


Mark D

I've noticed the same trend/thought process....

I hunted Namibia 09/2005 with three guys from another Forum. One used his 30-06 loaded with 180gr. TSX to down an old giraffe at the request of the PH.

He shot him a couple times in the shoulder basically to get him to turn so he could administer a shot to the head. Dropped him like the perverbial oak... if that isn't testimate to the ability of the '06 on PG I don't know what is.

A PH will breathe a sigh of relief when a hunter brings out an older and hunted 30-06 and some 180-200gr ammo. It is a wonderful PG round! I use a 12ga/30-06 Sauer drilling for PG and birds, and have never been under-gunned when using 200gr ammo with good bullets.

Sure, no problem.

I used the .30-'06 on two extended safaris; one in Zimbabwe and one in the Northern Transvaal RSA (near Mesina). In total, I killed a little over fifty head of plains game. All were one-shot kills (bang-flops) except for a warthog that needed a second (at about 10 feet, fixin' to run over me) and a waterbuck that I grossly mis-guesstimated range-wise.

To my favor, I managed to kill two Rowland Ward Impala with a single shot, so I get one back in the "plus" column from the two that I double-shot. It was bullshit luck, but a lot of hunting totally depends on bullshit luck (at least mine does).

Yeah, there was some small stuff, like duiker, steinbok and impala, but the majority of the critters were small-elk sized, like a half-dozen blue wildebeest (tough bastards), kudu, buncha zebra and such. The largest critter was an eland that weighed 1069kg at the farm's butchery.

As a side note, I saw my partner totally screw up a zebra kill, so I shot my first just under the ear. He was standing in a sunny glade with his long dick black hanging out. there were two obvious targets and, deciding on the side of reason, I nailed the bugger under the ear. Dead zebra -0- From then on, I clobbered zebra under the ear; I've killed about a half-dozen by now and all are ear shots. Kills them good!!!!!!!!

I found the typical game shot to be quite a bit shorter than those I usually experience in the States and Canada; prolly 80-yards or so, on the average. And it seems to me that Afrikan critters are a bit easier to "position" than American game; Hey, just wait for the shot and when it appears....nail the bugger dead.

My take on the .30-'06 is that it is just about the perfect African plains game cartridge. It works perfectly, giving bang-flop kills, on game up to and including eland.

I found the 180-grain bullet (unmentionable here for PC reasons) to be quite adequate.

As I said, I've only killed a few over fifty head of plains game with the .30-'06, but my impression is that it is just about right. There are many, many hunters who are much more experienced than I am, but that is my "take" on it.

If I was leaving for a plains game hunt in Africa tomorrow, I would take a single .30-'06 rifle and 180-grain (unmentionable bullet) ammo.

In the end, if fifty-five years of active big game hunting and the killing of hundreds and hundreds of big game animals have taught me a single thing, it is this: By far, the most important single thing in hunting is the hunter. The hunter must stalk as close as he can and if the perfect shot is not available, he must wait for it. And when the perfect moment arrives, the hunter drives the bullet deep.

Allen, do you remember a certain big-bodied blacktail that you and I killed up the Clackamas??? That was waiting for the shot and killing when the precise perfect moment arrived. That was a bloody-muddy day, my friend. And fun.

To your specific questions concerning the .30-'06 and its use on African plains game:

A) I have never seen a 180-grain bullet bounce off a head of plains game. All of mine have been pretty much dead-right-there and no bounced bullet evident.

B) Oh yes, the famous "blood trail." My animals are killed dead and very, very seldom have a blood trail. It's more of a pool. That is sucky.

C) Not enough killing power? Horseshit. Killing power is more a function of the hunter than the cartridge.

Steve

Thanx for the information, Steve.

I allege Hornady InterLokt to be the non-PC bullet. . . . (wink)

Just my guess,

BMT

BMT dun spilled the beans!! Hi, Steve... Hope all is well.. 721

Yup, darn him. Life is great here. Hard sunshine, sixty degrees, finally got the yard mowed and wife is away....man it doesn't get any better than that.

Your buddy Steve

Better have a beer and a backstrap.....bloody...with greeeeeeasy fried taters and corn...

and the big, fat Scottie dog is sleeping on the couch.

Steve

Thanks for this thread, Gents....after a long Tuesday that must be a Monday, some grinning helps...

assuming it's not the scope either.:)

Steve:

Ya gotta stop killin' things with them lousy Hornady bullets. Don't you know that cup and core bullets are obsolete?

Facts is facts, none of those 50 head of plains game actually be dead. They just playin' 'possum. (wink)

BMT

Well, I don't have near the experience of Allen and Steve but I thought I'd share a few pics.

Rifle: Ruger M77 MkII in .30-06 Springfield
Handload: 220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2460 fps
Location: northern Limpopo Province (near Alldays), South Africa in 2002

Why did I use a 220 gr bullet in the .30-06? Just because I wanted to be old fashioned and nostalgic. And, frankly, just for the fun of it! It seemed to work just fine, by the way.









Cheers!
-Bob F.

I thought some might find this of interest.

Around the world with a .30-06
The hundred-year-old caliber got a round-the-world workout on my hunts this year.
by Craig Boddington
October 2006
http://www.sportsafield.com/FAQ/Boddingtonblog.htm



"The rifle itself was very similar in appearance and handling to the M77 that impressed me so much thirty years earlier. Except this one wore a left-hand bolt, and had the MK II action with controlled-round feed and three-position safety on the cocking piece. This .30-06, no longer new, was a near-constant companion during a total of nearly 150 days of African hunting in 2006."









The .30/06 in Africa
For plains game of any size, not many calibers beat the '06.
By Jim Carmichel
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/gear/gunvault/article/0,19912,230175,00.html




-Bob F.

Steve, would the .280 Ackley Improved have done as well on the same critters?

Don't know where all this PC hoopla started with Hornadys but I guess I probably one of the guilty ones. Hornadys are great bullets, in my view, they are the best non-premium bullet out there and certainly more than adequate as evidenced by all the success stories proferred here. I know I told this story before, but I'll relate it again: I was hunting impala and we found a nice ram after a long stalk and nailed him on the point of the shoulder at 80 yards as he was quartering towards me with my 300 Weatherby.
I'm guessing impact velocity was 3k plus. The ram dropped like a stone. We recovered the bullet in the off side rear leg. It weighed 77grs if memory serves me. Point being, that bullet should have zipped right through that critter. Had that been an eland, I think things could have been different. There are many many anectdotes of the 300 & 400gr Hornady Interlocks (375 & 416 respectively) failing on buffalo, lion & even leopard. One particular hairy episode with a leopard and a 375 H&H was related to me by Tony Sanchez-Arino and it's even in one of his books.

So what's the bottom line? well here's my take on it: Out of a 3006 with impact velocities below 2700 fps or so, the Hornady is a magnificent bullet and on deer & most plains game, no preoblem!

But, for that big ugly stuff that bites back, my operational risk management view of things compels me to look for another option and to me that is embodied in the Swift A Frame. jorge

PS: here's the varmint:

Absolutely, my friend.

The reason I've always hunted plains game with the .30-'06 is that ammunition is generally available anywhere in the world. Airline rules state that your ammo and your rifle have to be in seperate pieces of luggage and it would really, really suck to get to Africa with your rifle and without your ammo. If a guy carried a .30-'06 is would be easy to find fodder, with a .280 Ackley it might be possible to find .280 Remington ammo (rather unlikely in Bulawayo, West Nicholson or Chinwise).

Yeah, I would love to slay African beasties with the .280 Ackley and 140s, but the total world-wide availability of the common .30-'06 makes the latter the obvious and more-practical choice.

The same may be said of the .375 H&H. Every bush camp has a supply of three-six-bits ammo. And what a great cartridge it is.

Steve

Steve, it's JB, Boddington and others but certainly you that convinced me I'd take my '06 to Namibia for PG including zebra and eland.

Good to "see" you here again friend.

George

Has there been a rash of 30-06 bashing lately? how did I miss that? BTW I think Hornadys are a great bullet.

The perfect two gun battery is a 375 H&H (or Ruger...) and a 30-06 with 180s or 200s, IMO. They have the same general trajectory and will handle about anything in their respective class. You can use duplicate scopes and zero at duplicate ranges. It makes for an easy switch.

Great thread Allen... thanks for sharing Steve! I'm sure JJ could chime in with more dismal failures of the 30-06.

Seems to me there are three types of guys that use an 06:

1) Those just starting out who's Uncle Joe tells them; "buy a 30-06."

2) Those that listened to Uncle Joe, bought a 30-06, found it worked and stuck with it because they're not rifle loonies.

3) Those who go back to the 30-06 after a couple decades of dicking with dozens of rifles and cartridges who realize Uncle Joe was a pretty smart fella after all!

Even though I don't have an Uncle Joe I'm in the last camp!

I love the 30-06.If I were limited to one cartridge for northern B.C hunting the 06 would be it.For all the reasons above.

I never owned a .30-06, but Steve, you are not required to pack ammo and rifle separately. Put them together and if you have one, you have both.

Brent - who does not now, and never has owned a .30-06

Allen: I just found an "in the box" Safari Grade (no salt) 3006 that a friend of mine'd had in his safe for years! Finally. It only took a year to find one but it was worth the wait! jorge

Steve, my only gripe about that fine day on the Clackamas was that when I went to fetch the spotting scope, you decided to press the trigger, and I didn't have the pleasure of watching you iron-out your buck! All that was left for me to do was to help you get him out of that steep, muddy, wet, slippery, log-strew clear-cut!

Brent, you can't count on exactly WHAT the airlines are going to ask you to do in terms of packing your ammo. Going on two years ago, I shipped a 300 Win. Mag and a 416 Rem. Mag. to Tanzania in a trunk-style aluminum rifle case. KLM also allowed me to secure all of the ammunition for both rifles in the top compartment of that same case. No problems, other than the fact that my case got the daylights beaten out of it somewhere between Seattle and Dar Es Salaam.

Last year, Delta insisted that my ammunition be packed in my duffle, and not in my guncase. By the time we touched down in Harare, my 338 Win. Mag. arrived without damage, but my duffle was nowhere to be found. This was the second time in the last 12 years that I've had either my rifles or the bag containing my ammo not show up when I did. The next day, we flew out to camp. I made due with the clothes that were on my back and in my carry-on, plus what I could borrow from my hunting partner. Since he also brought a 338 Win. Mag., I hunted with a box of his ammunition for the next five days, until my duffle was finally found and flown out to camp with some newly-arriving clients.

That's why non-standard or poorly-established cartridges aren't a good idea for Africa, as Steve detailed previously. The only way around some of these issues is to make sure that your cartridge headstamp matches the caliber designation on your rifle barrel, and then only go with something exotic if your hunting partner is going to take a rifle of the same caliber, along with the same load.

If you're going it alone, and I have every time so far except for last season, by all means go with a standard factory chambering, such as the 30-06 that we've been discussing........

AD

Not to highjack this thread but it would be nice, convenient, common sense, for the airlines to standardize their rules & regs regarding transporting firearms and ammo-the where and how. No guessing; no last minute changes; no employees not knowing the rules or waffling over your stuff.

Here's a situation that could be solved by pressing the "Easy Button" if only they'd do it.

Jorge, now THAT's a find! I had a Safari grade 30-06 a number of years ago. The one I had was built in 1962 or '63 (I think!), and it still retained the steel bottommetal. It shot pretty well with the first load I put through it, but for some stupid reason I later sent it on down the road. I should have kept it!

I'm gearing up to have a custom 30-06 built. The last custom '06 I had was rathered screwed-up by its maker, and I haven't had a really good and decent 30-06 in the safe that I wanted to hunt with in quite some time. I'm going to now rectify that situation.............

Goodnews, a lot of these airlines and their employees simply don't understand or like guns, hunting, or hunters, and I think this is what's at the root of this lack of standardization. They fear what they don't understand. Because of this, the best we can do is to stay adaptable and versatile.....

AD

I cannot imagine an easier to shoot, more functional cartridge today. My 30/06 is a loaner rifle for a lot of hunters each year. This post was put up about a year ago, but I found it and thought I would share it again in this thread. I'm not sure if the photo's will transfer with the cut and paste method I used.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


As Promised I have recovered and recorded a lot of information on the bullets used this season.

First some of the facts and details regarding the loads and the gun used.

Rifle: Model 70 Winchester PacNor 23� barrel in standard 30/06 cartridge

Winchester Brass
Federal 210M primers
IMR4350 powder 58 grains
Chronographed at 2900 plus at 55deg F

Game shot by 7 different hunters six male one female

6 warthogs
12 impala
6 Kudu bulls
1 Kudu cow
5 Zebra
3 waterbuck
6 wildebeest
4 Red Hartebeest
4 Blesbok
2 Nyala
1 Steenbok
1 Gemsbok

51 total animals. One was not recovered, a Blue Wildebeest was lost although a confirmed hit with a short blood trail.

Shortest shot was an impala at about 40 feet, longest shots were a Zebra at a laser measured 237 yards, Blue Wildebeest at 198 yards, Kudu Bull at 225, and Impala at 177 yards all measured with my LRF 1200.

35 were shot with the Barnes TSX bullets. 7 were recovered
6 were shot with the Federal Fusion factory loads
6 were shot with Hornady Interbonds
4 were shot with the PMC factory loads

My unbiased assessment is as follows. However I must first say that I was admittedly very skeptical of the Barnes bullets based on my prior extensive experience with the original X bullet design. I must also admit to not being very impressed with the Fusions lack of velocity at only 2700plus fps. The PMC bullets were on hand and used to share the difference between factory cup and core bullets and premium handloads. The Interbonds were already a well known performer and had a lot of respect from me.




My rifle was zeroed with the X bullets and shooting hole touching groups at 100 meters. Prior to departure I shot a three shot group to foul the barrel. Upon arrival I shot a 2 shot group to prove the travel did not compromise the scope adjustments. There were 5 shots now through the barrel. Each hunter using this rifle also shot it before their hunt started. The Fusion, PMC, and Interbond bullets would shoot into about a 3+� group mixed POI's with the settings used for the TSX bullets.

The Federal Fusion Bullets: Underpowered for bigger game. The lack of velocity and the unpredictable bullet shapes left me unimpressed. Although they held together they under penetrated and fell short of my desired performance hopes. It�s an excellent inexpensive deer and smaller big game bullet but does not have the kind of killing power I expect with a 30/06 using other loads and bullets. A good choice for deer, impala, blesbok, but I would not likely choose them for anything bigger or even on the tough little warthog. I stopped using this bullet for further shooting on game based on the early limited performance on the recovered game and bullets. With the shallow penetration and oddly shaped mushrooms I was not confident to shoot game as tough as wildebeest, gemsbok and zebra with these bullets.

PMC Bullets: As can be expected with these bullets being Cup and Core design they will kill about like the Fusion bullets. If everything is perfect they work fine, but when something goes wrong they will not provide the edge I would like to see in my bullets. All of them failed to stay in one piece and all lost much if not all functional weight retention.

Hornady Interbonds: Work flawless and 100% predictable 4 out of the 6 were recovered and all had massive expansion with great weight retention. Another hunter used these bullets in his 30/06 AI and had identical performace and recovery percentages as my standard 30/06. The AI version was about 90fps faster at 3000fps. A better bullet would be difficult to choose. I have already posted dozens of pictures and text on these bullets in the past. This years experience is the same. It's a class act by Hornady and difficult to choose another bullet over this design.

The Barnes TSX bullet: Well this was the one that drove this project for me. Although I am very pleased with the performance. I am very happy with the results of so many deadly shots on big tough game animals. I�m still skeptical about some of what I have seen. The 7 recovered bullets look almost identical and have from what I can see 100% weight retention. Not a single petal was broken off and all expanded from the close range 40 yard shots to the longer near 250 yard shots. Some exits were massive and the blood was flowing freely. Others showed me a bore diameter hole and not a drop of blood from the exit. I�m stumped as to how these bullets exit with an exact bore diameter hole? Yet some others have a huge exit hole. I had about a 20% recovered bullet rate from these bullets. The lowest recovery percentage of any bullet I have ever used. Exits are the norm with the TSX. I had a bullet zip clean through the shoulders of a Big Zebra at 237 yards which included the vertebra and one scapula just above the shoulder. This is enough mass that I have seen it stop a 270 grain Swift A frame from a 375HH plenty of times. Yet a 165 grain TSX from a 30/06 passed through. 4 zebra were shot with the 30/06. One needed a follow up shot, all 4 of the TSX bullets passed through these zebra. Only the one follow up shot was inside one of them. Zebra, Gemsbok, and Blue Wildebeest are about the best bullet stopping plains game we have. All three species were shot clean through with this bullet. Few provided a good blood trail often due to the bore diameter exit holes. Those that had good blood trails when recovered always had good exit holes too.

Here is an Impala with a noticeable exit hole but you can clearly see there is no blood flow.



I have 4 other TSX bullets I could photo and post here. However they are identical to the first two in this photo. They would be difficult to tell apart had I not marked them before I left! The only oddball in the group is the one from the zebra. It was recovered inside the heart. It has a wrinkled petal which you can see in this photo. All the others are exactly the same.


The rifle was not cleaned, barrel swabbed out, or oiled during the entire trip. On my last evening I hunted hard for a warthog. I walked from 2:30 PM til dark about 6PM I was hunting alone and looking for a whopper warthog I had seen twice in the prior several weeks I had been hunting here. In the closing moments of light about 5:55 I saw what looked like a shooter. At 75 yards he was trotting parallel to the road I was on, and slightly quartering away from me through the bush. When the warthog cleared a bush and left me with a fleeting moment between bushes I leveled the upper crosshair and touched off the trigger when it was layed behind the last rib. It appeared as if I rolled him over but the muzzle flash was too bright. I walked to the spot and saw a spot of blood. Then there in the flashlight beam just ahead he layed dead. The blood flow was significant and the exit was through the opposite scapula.

Several times I tested the accuracy during the week with targets. Each time the bullets were into the 1� square �bullseye� on the target at 100 meters. With nearly 60 shots fired during this trip and no cleaning I trusted this rifle and bullet combination on the last moment shot at the warthog. There was simply no fouling problems with these bullets and this barrel!



I would certainly feel a whole lot better if the exits looked like they had more consistency in size. However I have also come to another probably arguable conclusion with the TSX and the 30/06. I would much prefer to have a 30/06 with this bullet and a rangefinder then a 300mag of any make with cup and core bullets and no rangefinder. I feel 100% confident that these bullets will penetrate and shoot accurately as far as I would like to shoot. Say 400 yards or so. If you know the distance with the rangefinder hitting the target is not complicated or risky with low wind. These 165 grain TSX bullets in a 30/06 will out perform a 300 magnum with a standard cup and core bullet every time. Sure you can up to range in a 300 magnum and use the 180�s. However if the 30/06 killed 50 of 51 tough big game animals I�m not sure moving to the 300 mag is a practical choice if you want more power. I think moving to the 338 is much more logical. If shooting long range 450 yards plus is the reason then would I agree. However a rangefinder with a 30/06 is still a very do-able shot with these TSX bullets on a calm day.

So do I switch now from the Hornady Interbonds I love so much to the TSX bullets? ����Wow talk about a tough choice! The TSX shoots a tiny bit better in Accuracy, the tips don�t deform, they seat very tight in the brass with the groves. They don�t have the 100% internal damage consistency that the Interbonds have, but they are close and I cannot prove or explain why the holes are bore diameter on some of the game. I do have a photo coming of the exit on a zebra. It looks like the stallion was shot with a small broadhead. It has 4 slices about �� long each. It�s a brilliant exit hole. Why don�t they all show this? Maybe 35 big animals under nearly identical conditions is still not enough information? I will say that If I only saw 10-12 of the best exits I would swear these were the best bullets on earth no question, hands down, end of story. I may yet agree to this statement. However there were those few that leave me wondering why a tiny little exit hole as if the bullet did not open or the petals all sheared off? I will continue to use them until the first time I find one un-opened bullet inside an animal. If that never happens I may not use anything else in this rifle. I think they make a better large big game, Elk, bear, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, eland, waterbuck, moose, etc bullet then the Interbond because the exits at least in theory should provide more blood flow. I think the interbonds will provide much more explosive impact and internal trauma on deer sized game like antelope, sheep, blesbok, impala, etc.

They do not have a similar POI or load to shoot well from my rifle. They are as incompatible with a single scope setting as possible. I will have to pick one and stick with it. So for now I�ll stay with the TSX. As far as I�m concerned the TSX does more with the available power of the 30/06 then the Interbond does. The much higher frequency of exits is a benefit to good blood trails. I accept my weakness as a confirmed bullet recovery junky even though I know they should all exit.

I�m not sure you can make a mistake in choosing between the 165 grain AFrame, Interbond, Accubond, TSX, or Partition, The one that shoots best in your barrel and gets a minimum level of functional velocity should do fine. I guess having to choose between the 165 grain Interbond and the 165 grain TSX for me is actually a good problem to have.

AD, I have also noted a great deal of variability in where the airlines want your ammo. KLM let me keep it with the guns in my TUFFpack. BA wanted it together in the same container when I departed DFW but then were aghast in London that I had been told to do this. The usual rule is separate from gun in duffle which allows for the arrival without ammo scenario that you mentioned.

What I do wrt to firearms & ammo, I go to the respective airlines' website as well as TSA and print their own rules. Two copies. One goes in my duffle bag the other in my rifle case with the requisite portions highlighted in yellow. I had this issue one time and all I did was shove the intructions in the agent's face and that shut her up. I split my ammo and put at least one box/rifle in my rifle case and the rest in my bag. When my wife travels with me, I split it yet again so I have it in three different places. jorge

I have used the .30-06 loaded with 180's of various sorts in quite a few places around the world, sometimes with bullets even less-PC than Hornady Interlocks, and it has never failed on any sort of game out to 400+ yards.

John Barsness

Interesting. Delta was very happy with my ammo being in my case and so was Air Namib. This just last summer.

My headstamps say .348 Win. My rifle says nothing, and the chamber permits only .45-2 6/10.

Brent

In 2002 I had a reverse situation at the ticket counter where the young Delta ticket agent didn't give a rip about properly tagging my gun case, wouldn't listen to me, and simply sent it on down to the luggage Gorillas.

Knowing it was highly likely the gun case would never reach me in Jo'burg, much less Atlanta, I went hunting for the ticket counter Supervisor, and using my highly refined begging skills got the Sup to call for my gun case. Together, along with the recovered rifles, we went back to the ticket agent and the Sup went through the proper process of correctly tagging both the inside and the outside of the gun case to indicate the rifles had passed airline inspection.

Never thought I'd have to plead with an airline to actually inspect my gun case...

Brent

Most of the airlines won't let you put it together. I've had to separate it many times at their request. Otherwise what you said makes sense, they just won't always let you. What difference it makes I have no idea, they are both in the same area of the plane anyway. I also had an airlines employee go ballistic in Denver once when he found some 'flammable' bore cleaner. This same bottle had already been packed in the same carrier literally around the world and had over 15000 frequent flyer miles. I told him several of the women probably had more flammable hair spray in their carry on luggage and that just pissed him off. Then he said he had to get a superior(which shouldn't have been hard to find considering his obvious lack of sense) to OK it. I told him I had to board a plane, throw it in the trash, he decided this plan was acceptable. I had some people behind me he was going off on because he found a loose live round in with their rifles, they were on their way home from a dog shooting in SD. His live round I pointed out was a case with a bullet seated they had saved to set up a loading die, had no primer or powder in it.

Good post JJ.I always enjoy reading your stuff.I've learned alot from reading your posts...

Thanks
mike

Big + 1

BMT

Wowsa JJ that is a kick butt real world real experience report!

"DWS" (darn well said)

Thx

Mark D

My father in law took his weatherby 30-06 to africa for his plains game hunt. I believe he shot partitions and had great luck.

I am just thankful that Steelhead hasn't seen this Dogzappers comments on the zebra's or his partner's (hard to tell which one he was talking about) long black unit. ;-)

Steve, was the 30-06 you used the same one you used to shoot your ram with?

Friend Partagas,

The long black unit belonged to the zebra. For a manic moment, I fantasized about shooting it off (just think of the arteries feeding it), but reason over-ruled my insanity and I placed the boolit beneath the ear.

I killed my dall sheep with a Winchester Model 70, which broke a trigger halfway through the hunt. We had to walk a day and a half back to spike camp to get to my replacement trigger unit. I never hunted with a M-70 again.

I used a Remington M-700 Classic for my first hunt in Zimbabwe and a full-house custom Model-700 (Barreled and stocked by Melvin Forbes) for my second safari. Both PUSH-FEED rifles were obviously chambered for the .30-'06.

I have fired literally hundreds of thousands of rounds through M-700s and have never experienced a failure. Not one. They work...and the .30-'06 works

I would love to be the PR guy is the .30-'06 was announced today. "The astounding new 7.62X63 is a beltless cartridge that fills the enormous ballictic void between the .308 WCF and the .300 WinMag. It is TODAY'S PERFECT CARTRIDGE."

Steve

NOOOOOOOOOOO . . . . . .

Say it isn't so . . . . .

You took a 30-06, PUSH FEED, and Cup and Core bullets into the Africa Bush.

It can't be done I tell you . . . . .

I know this to be an impossibility.

I read it in Field and Stream. . . . .

BMT

Off with his head!! Steve

I intend taking an '06 on the next trip (probably in '08), and I have taken a .308 Win on three hunts. In each case I used 180 grain bullets: Win FailSafe; Norma Oryx; and Speer Nitrex w/Grand Slam. Of course they load the same bullet in their .30-'06 loads (or did anyway).

All worked fine.

jim

Friend Brian,

Funny Dude, very funny.

I must have friends in low places. Admittedly, I have very limited experience, but my PHs seeingly always use push-feeds, as well. Clive Lennox, my Zimbabwe PH used a Model 700 .375 H&H and we sat up in the leopard blind with him armed with an FN-FAL that he used for culling elephant (a .308, for pity's sake).

In the RSA, both of my PHs, Kjeld Kruger and Louis VonTonder, used Remington 700s in .375. Kjeld had a brand-new BRNO .375 but the (controlled-feed) extractor broke as he was feeding the very first round (that would give one confidence!!!!).

Kjeld actually fired his .375 as my backup. Remember that I mentioned double-shooting a waterbuck??? I was unfamiliar with the waterbuck's body size and misjudged the range. Anyway, I shot off a front leg and my PH, Kjeld Kruger, insisted on hunting him up from downhill. (It was not my plan, I've killed enough bear that I always go high and hunt down.)

The waterbuck was sulking in a steep revine.

As we approached from below, the damned waterbuck charged (no kidding). Kjeld got a mite excited and fired his rifle into the ground, scaring the everloving [bleep] out of both of us. Meanwhile, I took my time REAL FAST and shot the bugger in the mouth at about twenty feet.

The bullet blew a two-inch hole out the back of the head, but I was just happy that neither of us got hurt. Coulda been serious and paying attention to business bailed us out.

The hero photos are kinda cool; blood, drooping mouth and such (brains, [bleep] like that). Kinda hard-core.

Steve

I took a PF with cup/core bullets into the african bush, twice. What's the big deal, but people read what they want to read and discard what doesn't agree with their opinions.

We're all in agreement the 06 enjoys deity status, but as I stated previously, I was disappointed in the 180gr Hornady's performance on a lowly impala, so call me silly but I firmly believe the 300s with bonded core bullets give us children of a lesser god a better chance of putting our trophies in the salt, and I've experienced, read and seen enough about 700s that I just don't care for them. So shoot me. jorge

Great thread, and I have killed about 30-40 head of stuff with a 30/06, Clients have killed a bunch more but I am still with Jorge on this. Plus, my 300 RUM is just plain FUN!

I did my homework prior to my last trip and found that not to be true. It has not been the case for the folks that I've hunted with either and they have flown many more times than I.

Brent

The last time I flew from Baltimore to Denver and back, I was told in no uncertain terms that there was to be no ammo in my gun case. The TSA agent removed it from my gun case and made me put it in a suitcase on the way out.

I suppose we should not be too suprised at the lack of consistency, but researching airline and TSA rules does not support that - at least that was the case this past summer.

I suspect that most fliers know more about the rules than most TSA/Airline employees.

Brent

Controlled-feed actions and premium bullets share one commonality:

You won't need the advantages they offer until you need those advantages very badly..........

AD

Steve:

I just LOVE your UN-pc way of describing things.

Your braining of a charging waterbuck with a push feed 30-06 and cup-and-core bullets clearly shows that the HUNTER makes the difference, not his equipment.

I was always struck by the fact that Jeff Cooper, a true Mauser lover and expert, was NOT concerned about push feed v. CRF issue. He even took his lion with a Rem 600 in 350 Mag.

BMT

Friend Brian,

The Remington 700 was the same one. The rifle was a very well proven one before I took it on the first safari (prolly bonked 20-25 elk with it at that time). In the period between the two safaris, I had Mel stock and barrel it, but the action and bottom metal were left untouched.

The rifle is a perfect-feeder; well proven and the only kind to take on a big hunt.

Frankly, if a rifle is a perfect-feeder, I believe that the actual type of feed is not particularly important. As long as there is a round perfectly fed every time, that is all that is needful.

In the many tens of thousands of rounds (four barrels, by now) through this M-700, it has never failed to feed. All of it has been by me and I trust the action quite literally with my life.

Good action.

Brian, I wish you a great Lent. I gave up chewing Red Man; it is amazing that I could "Give it up." But I did.

I'm sponsoring a young man, Jason, in RCIA this session. Great kid and he is about to "graduate" come Easter.

Steve

Steve:

Wonderful News! Gald to hear that you are a sponsor!

Check your PMs's.

BMT

Steve,

Me too! I've sponsored a few in RCIA.

Now, about that 30-06. I could promise it a good home.....

Friend Dave,

Wow, that's great, I'm delighted to hear that you are involved in RCIA. Karen and I are "helpers." We get there an hour early, set up chairs, either bring treats or set them up and generally get the classroom ready. Then, after the RCIA class is over, it generally takes another hour to get everything cleaned up and put away.

We find the classes to be a fabulous battery-charger.

This year, the classes have been taught by our priest, Father Todd and by Sister Moira, who has a PhD, currently is adjunct professor of Theology at UofP. Sister Moira taught at the Vatican Theological Institute for 17 years and has been really helpful in helping us plan our upcoming Rome/Vatican/Assisi pilgrimage. Sister Moira is our especial friend; possibly the World's nicest, most sincere person.

The Remington 700 that I used in Africa is a real Paul Harvey "The Rest Of The Story." Because it is the most trustworthy action I've ever owned, the action ended up being the major part of my CPR .280 Ackley. That is the "old" one that I've used so much and have killed so much with. It is my go-to rifle for everything.

You handled the rifle when you visited us. It's the .280 with the sliiiick hard-chromed action, three-contour Schneider with the black McMillan Classic stock. The weight, with a 3.5-10 Leupold, sling and five boolits, is exactly 8.5 pounds.

Currently, the barrel has about 3,000 rounds through it, but it still shoots like a youngster. I love this rifle.

YOu might remember that I have an absolutely matching .25-'06. Again, a super killer and a superbly accurate rifle.

My friend, when and if I ever decide to sell either rifle, I will be sure to let you know. That is aa promise.

Your buddy Steve

Friend Steve,

Thanks for the reply.

I go "under the knife" for shoulder surgery on 10 April. The doc says everything should heal in a year, and back to big (338+) boomers.

But, I have been taking an informal unscientific survey of those with similar ailments, and they say a 30-06 will be my future big gun.

They also say that once sent to small bore heck, they wonder why they didn't go willingly, as everything dies just as fast, without the ugly recoil of a big caliber rifle.

YBC,

David

Friend Dave,

So true, so true. I've been using my .25-'06 a lot in recent years and find that it electrocutes deer and antelope. Strange about that.

As you probably know, I had extensive shoulder surgery a little less than two years ago. If you think it would help and you want to talk about it, I'd be pleased to rap about it; either by PM or by phone (503-652-1165).

If it is any of the several rotator cuff situations, the one-year prognosis is probably right on target. And maybe longer. In my case, it is turning out to be much longer.

Yeah, .338s and 416s are a thing of the past for you, brother.

YBC,

Steve

Allen:
I am thoroughly enjoying this thread and grinning from ear to ear as Steve, who has more experience than I'll ever have, blows away some very settled opinions and "facts!"

Just when I thought I had it all figured out.

Long live Interlocks and Pushfeeds!

ScottW

Just a comment in regard to the heavy handling on gun cases by the airlines. I work with baggage handlers regularly as a part of my piloting job and can confirm that (from their perspective) there is little incentive to be careful with our treasures as they are paid either minumum wage or barely above. The turnover, generally, is very high compared to other airline jobs. (Actually, come to think of it, the "lav guy" who drains out the lav sumps doesn't tend to stick around very long either!).

I started this thread after growing weary of the mentality that says that all African big game is so very tough that anything less than a bullet from a 375 H&H just isn't up to the task, and lot of clients (and even PHs) have been brainwashed into thinking that way.

I've known Steve for many years, and I know beyond question what he's done with the Ought-Six in North America, as well as in Africa. Let the facts speak for themselves!

AD

My first big game hunting rifle was a Savage 110 in 30-06, as ugly as it is, it has killed deer with such authority that i found it too powerful for the close range kind of work that i do.I moved on to a 700 classic in 6.5X55 but boy do i really love the 30-06! it is truly a jack of all trades, and really has to be the most sucessful cartridge ever made.

As far as shipping rifles i have a shotgun case, break down the rifle and slip the case into the pouch on my Cabela's luggage, viola! no seperation of luggage and gun case. When i went to Alaska and checked the rifle in Newark( where some of the 9-11 terrorist departed) they didnt know squat, i told em, "yeah its alright to have my ammo in the gun case" they said alright, as they really didnt know, kind of scary.........

A couple of years ago I made a similar decision. I bought the Cabela's "guide series" rolling duffle and an aluminum shotgun case. Nothing makes me more nervous than shipping a case that literally screams "GUNS!!!" Slipping the shotgun case inside the duffel allows me to travel with relative impunity. It works for pistols, AR's, or hunting rifles.

On a different note, one guy I know travels with his guns in a beat-up Pelican case that looks more like a toolbox than a gun case. He stencilled "ACME SEPTIC SERVICE" on all 4 long sides in bright orange paint. Not even TSA messes with his case!