I was reading some old Jack O'Connor and John Jobson African hunting stories last night, and both of those men teamed a 270 Win. with a 375 H&H in Africa - O'Connor on occasion, and Jobson on both of his African safaris.

Who has done the same?

Quite honestly, I'm seriously considering that option myself this very season, using the 375 for buffalo, hippo, crocodile, eland and possibly kudu, the the 270 for everything else, including leopard and the balance of the plainsgame species that I'll be hunting.

Lot's of reasons why......

Comments?

Allen: My uncle used a 270/458 Win combo in Mozambique & Angola in the late 60s & early 70s with great success. Matter of fact, he used the 270 with old fashioned Sivertips to take his lion. He also used it to take zebra, sable, imapala etc with the 270 and I never heard him complain. With today's better bullets, I don't see an issue although (gasp!) I've never been a 270 fan and I still think a 300 is a better round for this application, but for a gent like you that is fortunate enough to go often, the combo you are considering would be perfectly adequate. jorge

I've had a whole lot of hunters bring a 270 for the hunt. Many used my 375HH for the bigger game as you plan to do.

Several were not thrilled with the lack of blood for followup tracking, and switched to the 375HH for the remainder of their hunting. Herd animals as you know depart in a cloud of dust and leave little or nothing to follow but 1000's of tracks as the herd departs.

That seems to be the one factor that limits its following and greater level of success in RSA for the herd species. Minimal blood for the follow up tracking.

The bullets available are improving so much every few years that a gun like the 270 or 25/06 today is much different then they were 20 years ago. This is especially true for the 30/06 and 375HH. Newer powders and projectiles have provided these two old cartridges with a rebirth of sorts.

Allen,

I can't think of a much better combination. For my first safari, in 1987, I took my old David Miller 270 for everything but buffalo, and a Heym 470 double for the buff. The biggest thing I shot with the 270 was a nice kudu. I used 130 grain Bitterroot bullets in front of H-4831 powder, traveling along at 3130 fps.Both rifles worked exactly as expected.

I would have been equally comfortable with a 375 H&H instead of the Heym 470. The others in our party all had 375s as their "big" rifle.

Tom

Allen, I remember Ross Seyfried writing a story a long time ago about a midwest farmer and his son who came to Africa and for whom Ross was PH. The old man came in pin-striped coveralls, a very worn 270 and something like two boxes of handloads with 150-gr Nos Part's.

After Ross watched the gent settle hash with something like six or seven PG with a trigger pull each, he allowed as to how he came to relenting against his better judgement to let the old man try for a male lion.

The big male was come upon in his bed, rising and broadside as they came within range. The little 150-gr pills raised small puffs of dust on the kitty's side among a bigger, billowing cloud rising from the big cat settling straight down in the dirt, deader than last winter's grass. Paraphrase mine of course.

Someone we know ( ) spoke of shooting game with "cocktail time calilbers" and this may be an example of that - stretching things a bit, but...the cat got the point

Gdv

the more I read the more it seems that the PH crowd likes the bigger calibers for the blood trail

Take the 270 with 150 Nosler Partitions,it will kill the little stuff as well as anything. I know a guy who used one of these bullets to kill two bull elk very dead so it'll work on anything on which you don't want to use the 375.

The only problem is that it will most likely put a big exit hole in a dead leopard,but that's where a good taxidermist comes in handy.


I know that Utah mountain lions and leopards are different critters but my friend Wade Lemon says that the 270 is one of the quickest killers and best choices on cougars and he has taken as many as anybody.

Britt

.270 and .375. Can't go wrong, but you know that already, Allen.

Allen:Great thread! My favorite subject....


What exactly were you reading?

I gotsta quit lurking on the Africa forum, or I will wind up booking a safari soon.


Who needs to make the house payment, right??

Tim: Who the hell needs a house anyway........?

I will just move into my gun safe, Bob.
That and a little fridge for my beer, I will be all set...

Thank you, gentlemen....

Tom, I have my 270 zeroed with 130 gr. Nosler Partitions right now, but I may try some 150s as well. I haven't shot anything with 150s out of the 270 in quite some time, but they might offer certain advantages, especially on some of the bigger animals such as zebra. Have you ever tried Swift A-Frames in your 270?

Bob, I was reading some O'Connor ODL articles from the late '60s/early '70s entitled, 'Those One-Rifle Safaris' (Jan. 1970), 'The 270 On African Antelope'(March 1967), 'Rifles In Africa' (Feb. 1971). All of them are classic, nuts & bolts common-sense, must read articles.

I've also been reading Jobson's 'The Classic Magnums' (Sports Afield/March 1973), as well as Amwell's 'The Best of John Jobson'.

Currently my 375 H&H is zeroed with 300 gr. Trophy Bonded Bearclaws. I have two 1.75-6x Leupold scopes (one with the Standard Duplex, and the other with Leupold's Heavy Duplex) for this rifle, both in detachable scope rings from Tom Burgess. For these Echols milled from scratch (out of special, heat-treated steel) custom scope bases, and they are fitted so perfectly and so precisely that those scopes go back to zero every time.

The open sights are from EAW and they are screwed and soldered to the barrel, and perfectly zeroed for 50 yds.

All I have to do is come up with a solid load that hits in the same place, and I'll be in business.

I've been on the phone with Nosler as well as Echols concerning ammunition options, and it's entirely possible that I'll try some of Winchester's new Safari ammo with 300 gr. Nosler Partitions as well as Nosler's new solid, and these loads are engineered (so they say) to have the same POI.

I'm also interested in Hornady's new solid and soft point ammo, and as soon as I can get my hands on some of it, I'll be testing it on paper.

I'm also considering loading 300 gr. Swift A-Frames, which shoot very well in my rifle, plus Woodleigh solids.

This is the part of testing that I really enjoy: New ammo rather than new rifles in new calibers.........

AD

I have used the .270 Win and the .375 on Safari, I don't recall if I used them both on the same hunt or not but that makes no difference..

I like the .270 and its a great caliber, but I think I would prefer the 30-06 or my 300 H&H with 200 gr. Noslers in Africa for all plainsgame. but that's just my choice...I would also opt for the 160 gr. Nosler in the .270.

The .375 speaks for itself, it has been killing plainsgame and dangerous game for 200 years I guess, and has a clean track record...

Your combination is just fine...

...160gr Nosler partitions in the .270 will get the job done.
Leopard, small hole in, nickle sized hole out DRT.

...Kudu, wildebeeste, warthog, zebra, sable, springbok, blesbok, impala, and a bunch of baboons. All killed with the .270 and Nosler bullets.

I've killed giraffe, zebra, bushbuck, and duiker with the .375, but no DG. If a .375 is your DG gun of choice, load those Swift A-Frames, and go kill stuff.

Allen,

I have never used 150 Swift A Frames in a 270 but once discussed them with a PH from Zimbabwe who was hunting in the states on a vacation.


He considered the 150 Swift to be the very finest bullet in the 270 and thought it elevated the caliber to true all around status with regard to the large non dangerous species.

The same fellow recommended the 375 as the ideal rifle to pair with the 270/150 Swift.

He personally carried a Model 70 Custom in 416 Remington as his stopping rifle. I can't remember his exact name but it was something like Tokie Vandersomething. Perhaps someone here knows the fellow and can give us the correct name.

Britt

Aframes would not make my short list for the 270. Exits on larger PG species will be near zero. They will mushroom huge, and do damage, but good luck with any trace of blood. They make the most picture perfect brochure class mushrooms of any bullet made. But that soft curved rounded edge simply gets caught into the exit side hide. I have joked many times that the impact and penetration does not kill animals with the Aframe. What kills them is the bungie cord effect of being smacked with the skin on the exit side returning to it's original location.

Aframes are an awsome bullet from higher velocity rifles, 7mm mag, 300 mag, etc. But from standard calibers when used on heavier game, with tougher hides, they will not exit. Entry holes .277 diameter with out an exit is an absolute problem in my opinion. I used the 165grain Aframes in the 30/06 for several years. Rather good success, but very few exits. Thinking back I would say maybe 50% exits on all game for an average. On bigger game the exits would have been near zero.

Switching to the 165TSX I'm gettting about 75% exits on all game shot at any angle. That bullet transforms the non-magnum cartridges into magnum status and delivers two holes nearly every time. If the 270 were my choice it would be with a 130grain TSX or TTSX.

For what it's worth!

Allen,

I have tried the A-Frame in my 270's, but as I recollect I've only shot one animal with that combo, a mule deer. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on plains game though. I rarely ever use 150 grain bullets in the 270 as if I feel the need for more bullet than the 130 grain, I just move up to the 30-06 and shoot 165s or 180s.

Tom

I haven't used the .270 as much as the 7x57, mostly with 150-160 grain bullets, which works pretty much like the .270. Am goingf again in May, with the same 7x57 and probably some different bullets in the 150 class. The PH I am going with is originally from Zimbabwe (born and raised there back when it was Rhodesia), but moved to RSA in 2000. He saw the 7x57 on my sheet and e-mailed me enthusiastically. It is the only cartridge he has used on plains game for many years, except for the odd .375 on eland, mostly with 150-grain bullets. He is now about 60 and has shot piles and piles of various animals with it. His is stocked by Purdey, I believe, where one of his sons works.

Anyway, a good .270 bullet in the right place will obviously do the job.

Make sure to get a picture of your PH's Purdey stocked rifle for your article about the 7x57 in Africa

Mule Deer,
Is the 7mm 150gr E-tip going for a ride in your 7x57 in May? Curious to see results of that new bullet.
Marty

I don't have any "real world experience" with a 270 since I do not and will not own one.

So, you wouldn't want to entertain such foolishness that wasn't birthed from "extensive use." That would just be "idle speculation."

Personally, I grow weary of these 270 discussions. Seems like a seasoned user of the 270 would already know the answer to this question given 30 years of extensive use.

Allen:Does this mean you are going to take this combo over there this year, instead of the 338/416 duo?

I'm familiar with the articles; I have the Amwell book which is just a fabulous,entertaining read. A friend and I describe light-weight 375's as a "John Jobson style 375"...he loved that pre 64. Is there a better cartridge article ever written than "A Pair of Aces"...?

Bob, I don't have to declare serial numbers just yet, so I'm not quite fully decided. The 338 and the 416 are ready to go, so if I get pressed for time or else if I ultimately give in to common-sense (because my hunting partner's also taking a 338/416 combination), I'll go with my original plan.

Anytime a 270 Win. thread comes up, someone gets a bit cross, and I'm not quite sure why......

Back when I was a kid, I pledged to someday take a 270/375 combo to Africa, and it's a pledge that I intend to fulfill. Additionally, I've always wanted to hunt Cape buffalo with a 375 H&H, and since I haven't hunted Africa with my 375 H&H for the last 8 years, this might be a good year to dust it off and make it happen.

Quite honestly, I think that the 338/416 combo makes more sense for a number of reasons and would be more effective for all-around use. But I've used those rifles on safari before, nostalgia (and an old dream) is calling hard this time around, and to this day I've not used my sentimental old favorite cartridge, the 270 Win., in Africa at all.

I get weary of recoil as well, and every time JB, Dogzapper, or someone else starts talking about using the 30-06, 7x57, 308, or 270 in Africa for plainsgame, it gets increasingly easy for me to warm up to the idea.

The last time I had my 416 out at the range, I came home with a headache, but the last time I had the 375 out, it was like a walk in the park. I'm past the point of ever wanting a 458 Lott or some such howitzer for any sort of hunting........

AD

A couple years ago a friend of mine did a plains game hunt showing up with his sako finnlight in 30/06, folks over there gave him a hard time about using just a 30'06...til they watched him kill 14 animals with 15 shots using factory 165 partitions. I've never been to africa but to me it seems like a .270 just may work.I'd say use your old favorite Allen.

I bought a .270 Rem Mountain Rifle from their custom shop in 2000. I brought it to North Carolina and shot two deer with it. Text book, high in the shoulder 2/3 of the way up the front leg. Both deer ran farther than they should have. They went about 200 yards. When I recovered the deer, the whole front end of both was bloodshot. Tons of coagulated blood in the leg joints, the deer looked like they couldn't possibly get far but they went a long way. I went back to the .300 Win and watched them drop. Now I stick to it. I was not at all happy with the .270.

The recoil issue is something to be considered for sure.Funny thing is we start with a 270(280, 30/06) etc, want more and get it, and discover the virtues and drawbacks of the bigger cartridges. Then,as we age and mature we decide we don't want the recoil anymore,and come back to what we started with

About the time I hit my late 40's, I stopped using the big 30's and went 7 mag and 270 instead.Recoil was the reason;although I've used all three (270,7 mag,300mag) my whole shooting career, the 7 mag and 270 have really held sway the last 10 years or so.I doubt my 300 will see much action....

I feel about the 416 now about like you feel about the Lott.When I go to Africa, it'll be the 375,mixed with a 7 mag, 270, or 30/06.I like the 30/06 because a guy could load some 220 solids, just in case......

If the 270/375 strikes your fancy, you should take them. I suspect you'll be just fine.

Handwerk, I cannot imagine were you were that locals considered a 30/06 under gunned. It's the standard in Southern Africa. several of the camp loaner rifles are 30/06's and have accounted for hundreds of animals with flawless performance. Many even shot with cup and core 180 grain bullets. However over the last 15 years the first premium bullets used have been Partitions,and we have moved up from there using all brands of Premium bullets.

Outside of dangerous game I have never head any local African PH criticize the 30/06, not once.
----------------------------------------------
To the others regarding the 375HH and larger.
Several years ago I wrote a comment that the 375HH was as much recoil as most folks could comfortably handle. For the practice needed to be a great shot with a dangerous game level cartridge.

The most typical comment back was "if you could train yourself to handle a 375HH then the 416 is no problem" (yeah right)

My opionion of those folks was they they were not shooting in the same numbers I was. There is a certain recoil difference that eliminates the 416 from the same recoil catagory. If you shoot one of these enough to be good with it..........really good and accurate, it will begin to stomp you. This same level of shooting and recoil does not occur with the 375HH before you are a comfortable shot with it. At least for most folks.

Today with the TSX the 375HH is more lethal they ever and as flat shooting as the 30/06. With the Swift Aframes this cartridge makes short work of any thin skinned game with a level of confidence that nothing smaller can match, and few larger can match either! 270 grain bullets at 2800fps are a serious flat shooting force.

The 375HH remains the greatest level of killing power you can have for the investment you make in recoil.

In observation, the 270 with 130 gr bullets is the most proficient deer killer in the woods. There is something about that combo that kills them dead!

Allen, I had a Lott built because while I've cycled through the "lesser" magnums and back to standards in some cases, in this case - that of cape buffalo which scare me - I wanted a "big" rifle. I shoot it standing on my back legs and so far I can call it "fun". However, my wife has on occasion questioned my judgement on other things, so you can take that for the little it's worth.

I took a '06/375 combo (Blaser R93) to Namibia for PG and shot it on day one checking the sight-in. I shot a 3-shot 1.25" group with 375, even over the PH's truck, and he said, "yea, shoot that." With the 270-gr TSX this load did a .38" group once at home. Anyway, I had one trigger pull for seven species, none of which traveled beyond the spot on which they were hit. The 375 really is a remarkable balance of power, yet reasonably flat trajectory, without too much recoil.

On about day 5 I wanted to change over to the '06 for "kicks" and he talked my out of it - if it ain't broke, don't.......

I have no doubt the 270 would be fine. This argument is played out here ten times a day in terms of smaller cartridge effectiveness. You might just take a little more time, get a little closer, be a little more surgical in your shot placement which are all things we should be doing naturally as we get older anyway, and you would be fine but I'm sure you know that.

I too do like the idea of the 160-gr Nos Part in the 270 which at 2750-2800 fps if you handload should give very good penetration and be a good killer.

Gdv

"I shoot it standing on my back legs"

For sure it would be easier to shoot with your front legs down too,.......that is if you had two more.

Sorry, that was just too funny they way I read it!

One of the pleasures in life is giving someone a chuckle now and then. I do for the most part refrain from being on all fours. I find I am very slow and get a lot of strange looks.

What I could have said - better - is I shoot it standing from a raised bench or off-hand.

Gdv

I clearly understood you, it was........as is the usual case with the internet just one of those things we write. I'm more guilty of bad typing and stupid mistakes then anyone on this site. I'm just so grateful I'm not being graded on this lack of skill!

Kimber7man,

Yeah, at least in theory there should be some 150 7mm E-Tips going. Haven't seen any yet. I am also probably going to load up some of the Tipped TSX's and maybe something else as well. My wife will be shooting a .308 Win. and probably one or the other of those bullets as well.

While I would not be totally happy with the 375 as the big rifle in this combo, it will work under all the conditions and deliver the results you want with less recoil than the 416. The 270...as much as I love it I would rather have a 30/06 for general bushveld hunting. No disadvantages for recoil or trajectory and not a ton of difference in effect but what little advantage there is lies with the 30/06. Larger diameter bullets that weigh more just work better, in my experience. I love both calibers but unless I'm hunting in really open country I seem to grab the '06 more often than the 270.

Gee Rob, you know that is heresy on The Campfire, especially on Allen Days' post.

I switched from 150g Noslers to 150g Swift A-Frames in my 270 10 years ago. Both are great killers, but the Swift A-Frames tend to penetrate and exit while expending most of their energy in the animal. I've used mine on lots of elk, deer and 7 black bears, never lost one or had one run far. I get 3000 fps out of my Rem 700 BDL with a 22" barrel. I use Rem 9 1/2 M primers and lots of H4831. As always start low and work your way up, each rifle is differnt.



Chuck

If you are not getting good results for NC deer with a 270 and had to switch to a 300, there's something wrong there. Maybe you are using a tougher bullet with the 300 than the 270, but then again I find it a bit excessive to use a 300 on southern whitetail. jorge

+1 for Jorge.

rob p: If you "need" a 300 mag for those little-bitty North Carolina deer;what do you need for elk? I have read these half-baked criticisms of the 270 for years and quite frankly find them to be a bunch of non-sense, based on scant experience with the cartridge.There are legions of folks out there who could fill walls and freezers with game taken with the cartridge.

Behind most 270 horror stories lies an ill-suited bullet or a bum shot.

Sophistry......

I guess we shouldn't use anything less than a 500 A-Square on whitetails, probably with solids, to ensure we get a blood trail ...



Chuck

I agree.

I've just never had a problem with the 270 Win. for the type of game it was intended for, which is deer, black bear, sheep, goat, and antelope-size stuff, especially in open country, and that's what Winchester designed it to be from the outset.

All of the guys I know who have used it extensively over the years love it, have learned how to properly load for it, and they've always had good kills with it. Of course they're mostly all good riflemen, and they know how to place their shots, plus they use good bullets.

The guys who seem to hate it usually have the least experience with it, and they often have no experience with it at all. Or else for political reason (Keith-style) they'll proclaim to hate it just to get at someone else they dislike who happens to like the 270.

I agree with my friend John55, though, that the 30-06 would probably be a better light rifle for all-around use in Africa than the 270 Win. Even Jack O'Connor said as much himself when he stated that the 30-06 was "the most useful light rifle possible" to take on safari.

AD

Allen: I don't remember. Do you have an '06? Can't remember you mentioning that.............

My own....uh...inventory of that caliber has inexplicably risen the last couple of years. Must be my age....

Bob, the only 30-06 I have right now is my old Remington 700 ADL that I bought at age 15, and I haven't taken that rifle hunting in a lot of years.

Personally, I don't worry about the 270 as a light rifle in Africa at all, because with a 375 in tow, there's simply no reason to worry about the sufficiency of the 270!

When I hunted with John Sharp in 2000, I used only my 375 H&H, and I shot everything from southern impala to Livingston's eland with it. It absolutely hammered everything, and without fuss. The only problem I had was with a zebra that I shot too far back, which was my own fault, pure and simple.

AD

I have never hunted with or even fired a 375 anything but I am sure that it would hammer everything. I had a 35/06 AI for a while and it certainly was a lead slinger.

Soon, I think I will have me a 375 Ruger. I like the idea of 270 gr bullets.

Good luck on your trip.

Allen: I don't think you have anything to worry about.Take the 270; you'll do fine. Bring home pictures!

Allen-though I've never been across the pond, when I do go the combo of a 270 and 375 will most likely be the way I'll go as well.

I just can't imagine wanting for anything more, and we both know that if they don't get it done it isn't their fault.

I'd take my lil G33/40 in a .270 and my bolt magnum would most likely be turned into a 375.

Come to think of it I've a thinking about doing it anyway for work here at home and anywhere else I travel.

Personally I think it's a super idea!

Dober

Mark, taking a familiar rifle like your G33/40 270 is a totally smart idea, and most of the plainsgame animals you'll hunt will be between the size of a Coues deer and a spike bull elk anyway. The 375 can take care of all the rest in a walk.

Personally, I think the truly heavy big-bores have been totally over-prescribed and I have serious doubts about the ability of most hunters to shoot them well. Writing a check is one thing, but using what you paid for is often somehting else altogether!

I can do good work with a 416 Rem. and a 458 Win., but I loath shooting the bigger 458s, etc.......

I've had the chance to do some shooting with various doubles over the years, and in addition to being big, heavy, awkward, and foreign to this Oregon elk hunter who was raised on seemly bolt-guns, they kicked like heck. I worked with a 577 NE once that was just totally out of bounds, and if I would lie to myself just long enough to get to the point of buying one of my own to hunt with, I strongly suspect that I'd have a greater chance of getting into trouble than I would with a lesser cartridge like the humble 375 H&H.......

AD

I have used a 375 H&H and 270 on the four safaris I have been on, but my 270 is the Weatherby Mag version. I used 150gr Noslers (Weatherby factory loads) on everything appropriate, and it certainly worked well.

In the 375 I shot Sledgehammer solids and 270gr FailSafes, no complaints with either.

Allen:
I would be very interested in your taking the .270/.375 H&H to Africa for several reaasons.

1.) I suspect it is more representative what the "average" 1 or 2 time hunter headed for Africa might use on a 2 rifle safari.

2.) You would be one who would give an objective, accurate and detailed hunting report regarding the effectiveness of this combination.

I could only be more pleased if you only loaded the 270 and 130 gr TSX's for your safari. I would especially like to hear of your experiences with the 270 TSX on DG, as Barnes recommends (at least on Buffalo).

I haven't decided on bullets just yet, but as the weather improves, I plan to do a lot of shooting, on paper as well as over the chronograph. I've got 375 H&H ammo ready that's loaded with Trophy Bonded solids & softs, as well as Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frames. I have some 300 gr. TSXs on hand, and I plan to order some Woodleigh solids as well as Barnes solids.

I've not considered going the 270 gr. Barnes route, but that's an interesting idea that deserves some inquiry and some serious thought. I'm glad you brought it up!

For the 270, I've got it ready to go (if I get pressed for time) with my favorite 130 gr. Nosler Partition loads, but I plan to experiment a bit with other bullets, including 140 gr. & 150 gr. Swift A-Frames, 130 & 140 gr. TSXs, as well as 140 & 150 gr. Nosler Partitions.

As I found out a long time ago, the 270 Win. is really a handloader's cartridges if you want to get the most (in the way of complete performance) out of it.......

AD

This is a little bit an aside but this - the two rifle concept - is why I purchased a "switch-barrel" rifle in the Blaser R93, a rifle I suspect might make some (I imagine you, Allen) twitch in your sleep . But it really, really worked out well, albeit I went over with a scoped 30-06 barrel coupled with the 375. Even on a planned one-rifle hunt, you can carry an extra scoped barrel for the eventuality that travel and hunting are wont to bring.

For those who plan on Africa in the future, the two-barrel rifle bears a little consideration for it's versatility, the ease of transfer, familiarity, carry, less paperwork, etc.

Gdv

Absolutely Alan, I've had very good luck with H4831 with 130g Noslers and both H4831 and Norma MRP with 150g bullets. I've always used Rem brass and Rem magnum primers (9 1/2M). I've always been able to achieve 1960s advertised specs with my 22" barreled Rem M700 (3150 fps with 130g and 2900 plus fps with 150g bullets)

Regards,
Chuck

George, I'm sure that your results were excellent with your Blaser rifle.

Here's one of the problems with switch-barrel rifles: They don't switch fast enough. On a number of occasions I thought that we were out to hunt some sort of plainsgame species, only to be driving down the road to do so we'd spot a lion, or a herd of buffalo (or else a lone bull) and then we'd stop the rig as fast as we could, grab a rifle, then get out and make a stalk. And sometimes those stalks would turn into half-day marathons.

There wasn't time to switch barrels - just grab the 458 or the 416 and have at it. The 300 would then be carried by a tracker, just in case........

AD

I can't imagine a switch barrel rifle in mixed bag country in Africa vs two or even one proper rifle.

First let me point out that I have taken a pile of deer with good results with the 270. But I have observed deer hit very well with a 270(and 280,7x57,308,30-06)go 200 yards or so into the thick stuff.

I have taken a couple dozen whitetails with a 300 win mag. Only one went anywhere,he made it about 25 steps. I think there may be a place for an elk round like the 300 on deer in the south,particularly when you want them dead right there,right now.

Shot placement trumps everything,but lung shot deer do seem to stop quicker when hit with a 300 mag with the proper bullet.

Just my view,

Britt

tol-

There's a tongue-in-cheek saying in medicine regarding doing certain procedures: "imagine one, do one."

A "proper rifle" huh?

edited to add, of the ones you've tried which didnt' work out?

That's not dumb thinking at all.

I know this much, and that's the fact that whatever I've whacked in the way of plaisngame with a 300 Win. Mag., 375 H&H, or a 338 Win. Mag. has stayed whacked, most of the time going down right there, without complication.

At the end of the day, I may very well take my 338 and my 416 for this safari. For one thing, my hunting partner is taking those same calibers, so we'll have mutual ammo to fall back one, which proved to be very important once before. Besides that, my 416 Rem. Mag. has proven itself as a totally great Cape buffalo rifle, as has the North Fork ammo I've got loaded for it, and my 338 Win. Mag. loaded with Swift A-frames has work perfectly and decisively on all manner of plainsgame, thru eland.

Ultimately, I have to decide if I'm going to try to make this some expensive exercise in nostalgia (which is rather stupid, when you think about it), or if I'm going to go with proven rifles of greater power, plus logistical common-sense.

It's possible that I'll save the 270 and 375 for the next time I go over and take my wife, which is sort of how I'm leaning right now.........

AD

After reading through this thread I'm surprised that the proponents of the .223AI haven't chimed in to tell you how overgunned you would be with a .270 for plains game

I'll probably draw lots of flack for this next statement, but for me, the 270/375 is a marginal combo...key words there are "for me". They are both adequate but neither offers much power to spare for many of their intended targets. A 300/416 combo or the 338/416 is far better in my own experience as it offers some extra bullet weight and power for the times when a bad angle shot is all that's offered. Africa is too far, too expensive and too much trouble to use "marginal" type rifles...unless these calibers are all that a person can handle effectively. Thankfully I am not in that category.

goodnews

Proper rifle in this case means for the type of hunting you are doing ie plains game only versus dangerous game only versus combination. Perhaps I wasn't clear.

The point is, in Africa where you can easily step around a bush and find you are faced with a different animal than you were before, the last thing I want is to be with the wrong caliber or switching barrels. YMMV

Doc: I've shot a few deer and without question my #1 DRT cartridge for deer is the 257 Weatherby with 100gr Hornadys. Something on the order of 44 straight one-shot DRT. With good shot placement of course and to me that means the center of the front shoulder. jorge

I am going to make the 300WSM and the 375H&H my choice of rifles and hopefully my mathews if luggage permits.

Another vote for the .270/Nosler 150gr Partitions on African plains game.

I took a Win .270 and .338 to So. Africa last year and killed 11 animals (no eland or buffs): 10 with the .270, and one with the .338. The .270/Nosler 150 PTs worked so well on even the larger antelope that I didn't bother with the .338 until the last animal on the last day.

Next time I'm taking just one rifle, a 7 STW. It should be about perfect for longer shots on all African plains game (except buffalo and eland).

tol-

Well, the idea isn't at all to be dithering around switching barrels depending what you see at the moment; it's to have another scoped barrel in another chambering at camp - just like you'd have another rifle.

As in having individual rifles you'd carry the chambering appropriate for the biggest beast you expect to take.

I wanted eland, zebra, gemsbok, etc., so started out carrying my 375; if/once I bagged those, I could switch to my '06 (270,7x57, whatever)for the smaller antelope.

Anyway, sorry for the diversion.

Gdv

John, I fully agree with all that you stated in your post.

The 270 Win. and the 375 H&H are acceptable, but a 300 or 338 teamed with a 416 or 458 are ideal, provided you can shoot them.

AD

And Allen, I know you can too.

"I get weary of recoil as well, and every time JB, Dogzapper, or someone else starts talking about using the 30-06, 7x57, 308, or 270 in Africa for plainsgame, it gets increasingly easy for me to warm up to the idea." Allen Day

This is why the 7x57/9.3X62 combination is so appealing to me.

Allen, I believe you could take a .243/TSX or NP and do all your PG hunting very successfully. I do not say that in jest.

On certain safaris, you could do very good work with a 243 Win. (within reason), just so long as you had a 375 H&H or something of that order to along with it.

On our last safari going on two years ago, my hunting partner and I took 338 Win. Mag. rifles only. He hunted entirely with Remington 225 gr. Swift A-Frame factory load, and I did much of my hunting on that safari with that same ammo, which I borrowed from him. To say that it was effective and sufficient for all of the plainsgame we hunted (impala thru eland) would be a great understatement.

We're taking the same rifles this year for plainsgame, plus 416 Rem. Mags. for buffalo, hippo, and whatever else we feel like using those 416s on.

Over the last couple of days, we made the mutual decision to take just Federal factory 225 gr. Barnes TSX ammo for our 338s. For one thing, I've used it myself for the last three seasons of elk hunting, but I haven't really shot enough animals with that load to have a full feel for the performance of the bullet yet, but it's super-accurate out of our rifles, fast (2850 fps.), tested at the factory to 150 degrees F, and it'll be fun to try a new, true premium bullet out on a wide variety of animals.

John55's previous comments are totally on the money, and I like rifles with punch, especially for areas with lots of lion, as well as many buffalo.

I'm saving the 270/375 combo for the next all-plainsgame safari, and I'll be taking my wife on that one...........

AD

AD,

Let's face it: You WANT to to take the .270/.375 battery to Africa. By all means, do it. I've done the metric equivalent, the 6.5 X 55 Swede and the 9.3 X 62. It performed well. The 6.5 Swede handled everything right up to kudu without a hitch.

Part of the pleasure of being a gun nut is taking your obsessions to the field.

There is a certain romance to the classics, and that is about as classic as a combo could be. I think O'Connor was on to something good. Time to do it and tell us about it. Good hunting!

Concur with Hatari Allen, go for it. I've always wanted a 300 H&H & 375 H&H combo myself. Such is the stuff "dreams are made of" and you are blessed that you can actually execute! Cheers, jorge

Hi Allen,

Good luck on your safari. Its sure fun to pick the guns.

A while back I remember someone who took I think a 458 and a 300 WM and the 458 rifle broke for some reason. Next up was a lion and the hunter used his 300 WM on the lion with good results.

Is a 270 enough gun for a back up?

I know one could borrow a gun there of course but........

A .375 and a .270 is a good choice but I would not consider the .270 a backup gun for dangerous game...

My idea of a 2 gun safari would be a .416 Rem with irons and scope option, and a 22 L.R. that way I could keep us in birds...

I was the guy who had a 458 Win. Mag. that went haywire, then I used my 300 Win. Mag. for two Cape buffalo, as well as a lion.

I would certainly agree with Ray that a 270 Win. would serve as a very poor backup rifle for DG larger than leopard in case the big-bore went south during the course of a safari.

Tempting it is to go with the 270/375 combo, but at this stage of the game, I'm going with the 338/416 setup for this safari, and a big part of that decision is so that my hunting partner and I can both count on reserve ammo in the same calibers.

I also think that the 338/416 combo is a more sensible all-around tandem, at least for this particular safari..........

AD

Allen: What happened to the 458?

Bob, that was on my first safari, and I had a good local riflesmith rebuild and modify a Model 70 Super Express 458 Win. Mag., and he generally did a very good job with it. It shot well, it fed reliably, the floorpate latch spring was replaced with a very stiff unit so that the floorplate wouldn't pop open and dump cartridges on the ground at High Noon, plus it was given quality open sights, etc, etc.

In Tanzania, I used that 458 on one zebra, and one Cape buffalo. We also stalked, on dry ground (the only way I'll do it), a gigantic, scarred up old bull hippo, and I shot him with that 458 a couple of times, which put him down for keeps. I worked the bolt hard and fast from the shoulder for a reload - and that 458 went off!

My PH as stunned, and since the hippo was dead, we took some time to figure out what was wrong with my rifle. We got TWO MORE slam-fires out of it, and it became clear that my local riflesmith had adjusted the trigger entirely too light for the sort of hunting I had in mind for that rifle. I didn't have tools in camp to fix it myself, so my PH advised retiring it for the duration of the safari.

Triggers that are perfect for killing paper back home are not what you need in a dangerous game rifle, and ALL RIFLES that are destined for safari use simply MUST be tested in every possible way for feeding function, slam-fires, etc..........

AD

Allen: I'll bet they took too much of the overtravel out, and you're right; set too light, I'll bet....

Not giving advise, just suggestion, but for 25-30 years my gun maintenance kit on any trip includes a screwdriver kit and 2 small wrenches to fix/adjust a M70 trigger, just in case.

I have never had to use it on any of my rifles,but used it once to fix my guides rifle when someone adjusted the trigger and too TOO much of the overtravel out of it.It has worked great for him since.

Wonderful. I'd use the 300 win mag/416 rem mag combo today.

Wow - Zombie thread from back in 2008, but good info.

Re the trigger pull... YES! I've seen so many hunting rifles with triggers tuned to match rifle weights...

NO!!!! 3 pounds, crisp, is fine for a general purpose hunting rifle.

For me anyway - and frankly - I'd be quite willing to put up with more on a rifle that wasn't being used for long-range work, like might happen with a pronghorn rifle or similar.

Guy

27 months after Allen started this thread he was dead. It sort of puts all this minutia into perspective...