What happened to the .366 286gr. A-Frame bullets? Discontinued already??

I don't see them listed on Swift's web site, but did notice Cabela's and Grafs has remaining inventory.

I was also under the impression Federal was going to offer 9.3x62mm loaded ammunition. 286gr. A-Frame as well as TSX and the Barnes Solids.?? Doesn't seem to be available....

Swift has focused on the 300gr A-Frame for the 9.3. I just wish that they would come out with a matching solid bullet to go with it.

Woodleigh was considering coming out with a 300gr. solid (new Hydrostatic bullet) in 9.3, but they chose the 286 gr. bullet as it is both most popular and/or matches the S.D. of the 300gr. .375 bullets. Woodleigh does offer their heavier 320gr. bullets too.

If you're looking for a substitute to the 286gr. A-Frame in 9.3, the following three choices are what I would try first:

1. 286gr. Northfork
2. 286gr. TSX
3. 270gr. Lapua Naturalis (at least the same penetration as 285gr. Lapua Mega); consistent

A classic European and American choice are as follows:
1. 285gr. Lapua Mega
2. 286gr. Nosler Partition

Other top choice in 286gr. come from RWS in loaded ammo. They have the UNI, DK and many others: RWS Ammunition

There are dozens more bullets for the 9.3 from 180gr Impala bullets to 320gr. Woodleighs. Run a Google search. I'm particularly fond of the 9.3x64 cartridge and I am considering building a custom rifle chambered for one.
Cheers!

I believe they are on the way, Swift might not have updated their website yet.

Federal is also using the 286-gr. in the 370 Sako (9.3x66) and the 9.3x74R.

I bought my Swift 286gr. from Cabela's.. Didn't see them anywhere else in stock..

MM

Those 270gr Lapua Naturalis's would work real well in a 9.3X64!

I'd prefer them over the Swift

Tell me a bit more about the Naturalis. I'm not familiar with them. From what I gather, they're similar to the Barnes TSX?

Yes - the Naturalis is quite similar to the Barnes Tipped TSX. It has a polymer plug to aid in expansion. They are fairly long, like the Barnes, and at least in the 9.3 caliber, are somewhat lighter in weight - 220-gr. and 270-gr. They are very expensive as component bullets. IIRC, the 270's run over $100/per 50 from Midway (special order only) and Grafs. Lapua loads these in some cartridges, including 9.3x62. Remington has also started using these in some of their premium ammunition. These are very high quality but because of cost, I'd look at North Fork, Swift, and even Woodleigh. North Fork especially aren't cheap but are more readily available. If you are set on having a mono-metallic, Barnes is a good choice and GS Custom would be another option.

The 300 gr. Swift is a fantastic bullet in the 9.3x62, at least in my 26 inch tube and a gun with a long throat, it will equal the .375 H&H IMO...I have used it and I like it and I'm actually not much of a Swift fan except on very large animals, as they seem to ball up into a nice pretty but smooth mushroom and thats not my cup of tea as I like the ragged edges of the Nosler and Woodleighs. but on big stuff the Swifts have worked well enough.....I have never used the 286 gr. swift, but have used the 286 Nosler and Woodleighs a lot on plainsgame up to Eland with perfect resulets everytime.

The 300 gr. Swift is a fantastic bullet in the 9.3x62, at least in my 26 inch tube and a gun with a long throat, it will equal the .375 H&H IMO...I have used it and I like it and I'm actually not much of a Swift fan except on very large animals, as they seem to ball up into a nice pretty but smooth mushroom and thats not my cup of tea as I like the ragged edges of the Nosler and Woodleighs. but on big stuff the Swifts have worked well enough.....I have never used the 286 gr. swift, but have used the 286 Nosler and Woodleighs a lot on plainsgame up to Eland with perfect resulets everytime.

Well FO, they are and they aren't. They tend to be a semi round nose or round nose in shape. A monometal with a green tip, but the hollow point behind is shaped differently with a "step" or as Lapua refer to it as, a "valve" in it. They mushroom more like a bonded bullet, no petals, much bigger frontal area......and without doubt are one of the most accurate bullets in most of the guns I've tried them in. They tend to be a bit cheaper out here in Oz, than the prices Pinotguy quoted, but that seems to be common with European gun/ammunition prices.

Here is a 231gr 338 recovered from a frontally shot blue wildbeeest at 283 yards with my 338RUM (it never got up). Note the mushroom shape, frontal area and the long shank on the projectile.

Man, that's like driving a stake through them.

Can't see why anyone would need an AFrame when the great Nosler Partition is available at 286 grain.

They really work! Best bullet, I've found. And super accurate to boot......though they are ugly; the marketing department at Lapua, sure didn't design them.

Because the AFs stay together, retain more weight yet expand significantly. Probably not a big deal on deer but an advantage on Cape buffalo, eland, big bears. YMMV

Here is what the Lapua 9.3 Naturalis looks like up close:


Description:


My friend in Portugal uses them in 270gr. in his 25" barrel 9.3x64 Mauser and gets about 2820 fps and always gets complete penetration no matter the angle on Red Deer and Wild Boar.

Serious doubts here as to whether the AFrame in question will penetrate anywhere near what the 286 Partition will. Plus it maintains most of its weight in that particular bullet.

You might want to contact JB about that bullet.

Not according to my research.


I spoke with several PH's with years of experience hunting and guiding for DG, and to a man their preference and recommendation was the A-Frame over the Partition.

The 9.3 is arguably on the low end/edge of suitable DG calibers... my thought (and enforced by the advice and opinion from experienced DG PH's) is why push the envelope even further when better bullets are advised (again I must stress, by men that earn their bread and butter hunting and guiding for DG) and readily available?

Source, data? I doubt it.

NOW that is a BEAUTIFUL bullet....................

Heard from both Swift and Federal this afternoon.

Swift stated that since they were new for 2010, they were in the process of changing/modifying their packaging. Supposedly they have everything sorted and in place, and will have them listed on their websight soon. The 286gr. A-Frame is available and in stock.

Federal stated high demand over the past two years on their ammunition and components. They are operating at full capacity 24/7 but are still behind. The new loaded ammunition they announced for the 9.3x62mm is back logged, with no projected availability date.

Doesn't make sense to announce something if they're not going to actually make it available in the foreseeable future....

A few comments:

I haven't tested the 286 9.3 A-Frame, but have some experience with the 300-grain 9.3 AF on both game and in test media. In both the 286-grain Nosler Partition outpenetrated the AF.

This is because the 286 Partition retains just about as much weight, since the partition is moved well forward in this bullet, and the Nosler doesn't expand as widely as the AF. In fact, the 286 9.3mm Nosler Partition will penetrate almost as far as the 286 TSX, and farther than the 250 TSX. The 300 A-Frame does make a little bigger hole, but in my experience the hole made by the 286 Partition is plenty big--and so far it has impressed every animal shot with it as well.

JB,

For clarification, is your experience with the .366 cal 286gr. NP with Cape Buff? If so, mind if I ask how many, shot distance, and angles involved?

Appreciate your feedback.

Nope, no buffalo. Biggest game taken has been a big British Columbia moose.

JB,

I'm interested in the design modification you mentioned on the 286-gr. NP. Did Nosler move the partition forward in all of their larger calibers? If you don't mind elaborating on this, it would be much appreciated.

Getting back to the A-Frame, the 370 Sako load with the 286-gr. bullet is on the shelves. Expensive as all-get-out, but available nonetheless. (Guess they had to start somewhere.) I'm just happy that the 9.3's are finally getting some love from American ammo makers.

I'm pleased to see additional options become available for the 9.3 as well!

I'm especially interested in the 286gr. A-Frame as it's my understanding it was obviously designed for the .366

The 250gr. and 300gr. A-Frame currently available for the .366 I'm led to understand is swagged down from the .375 cal bullets....

To be fair, and provide clarification that both DakotaDeer and JB may (or may not) be alluding to since this topic is specifically about the .366 cal A-Frame bullets....

It has been said/rumored numerous times over the years on various boards that the 250gr. and 300gr. A-Frame bullets are swagged down from the .375 cal Swift bullets.

There has been reports in the past of these bullets in the 9.3x (and a couple wildcats based off .366) not performing as typically expected. Thus, some folks are hesitant about utilizing said bullets in THIS particular caliber.

The 286gr. bullet is suppose to alleviate and address those previous concerns that some may have had. Initial reports I've heard and read have said that the 286gr. A-Frame is excellent.... and thus the reason for my initial post as since they were not listed on Swifts sight I was concerned that perhaps they had been discontinued...??

Glad to hear they are in production, and I look forward to trying them out for myself.

Full disclosure, the only AFs I've used on Cape buffalo are the 0.423" 400 grain bullets and based my comments on that experience. This shows the danger in generalizing without actually conducting the experiment. I stand corrected. MD, thanks for sharing your experience.

pinotguy,

The partition is generally farther forward in heavier/fatter Nosler Partitions than in lighter ones. I would hestitate to list exactly which bullets feature this, because Nosler (like many bullets companies) is constantly tweaking its bullets.

The reason they do this is that these bullets are normally used on heavier animals, while the smaller Partitions are more often used on deer. Many people firmly believe that ALL Nosler Partitions will retain about 2/3 of their weight, but this is only true of the smaller bullets, say from .30 caliber on down.

The heavier ones often have the partition moved far enough forward so that the bullet retains 85-95% of its weight, with an average of around 90%. Or at least that's the average for the bullets I've recovered from game. These recovered bullets include the 225-grain .338, 286-grain 9.3mm, 300-grain .375 and 400-grain .416. In addition, the rear jacket is usually beefed up somewhat in these same bullets.

FOsteology,

Since it's your money we'll all be spending , I nominate you to do a side-by-side test of the 286 Partition and new AFrame.

Then we'll have empirical data to go on. I'd like to know how they compare directly for penetration and expansion.

I can only say, that I did indeed spend several hours testing various bullets in calibers .338, .375 and .416. The first test was run in an 8ft water tank. A-Frames looked picture perfect in mushrooming and retained all their weight. Nosler's shed some bullet weight but not much really! Northfork, TBBC and A-F's all looked good and expanded in the tank.

The next test was a series of 3/4 inch plywood boards set some 2.5 inches spaced apart, back to back. Now in the front of those boards, I added a piece of 2.5 inch solid oak board, piece of 8 gauge metal, covered with a piece of 1/2 thick conveyor belt.

Bullets tested were the Northfork, Swift A Frame, Nosler Partiton and TB-Bear Claws.

The Northfork bullet penetrated the furthest and the Nosler Partitions penetrated and came in last place, with more bullet weight loss then the others, most lost 35 to 40 percent. Swift A Frames got 2nd place. The A-Frames came in 7.6 inches behind the Northfork bullet which penetrated the deepest in my test. A-Frames came in second, TBBC came in 3rd and Nosler Partition came in 4th.

The Swift A Frame bullets only lost around 5 to 7 percent of their total bullet weight, better than the TBBC and certainly better than the Nosler Partition's.

Sorry, but I just can't believe that the .375 and .416 Nosler Partitions only retained 35-40% of their weight, unless the .375's were older ones--or maybe 260's.

I have recovered quite a few of those (as well as 9.3 286's) from game and the LEAST amount weight retention was around 85%. That was a .416 that entered the left rear ribs of a Cape buffalo and ended up in the shoulder on the other side. All the others have retained 88-95% of their weight.

The least amount of weight retention I have seen from any of those three Partitions is about 75%, from a 9.3 286 that was shot into dry newspaper at very close range. It lost all of the front core and most of the peeled-back jacket. But even if you hacksawed all of a 9.3, .375 or .416 off right in front of the Partition it wouldn't lose 35-40% of its weight.

I have also tested the heavier Nosler Partitions against Swift A-Frames in dry newspaper (a more realistic test than plywood, steel, oak, and conveyor belt) and the Partitions have out-penetrated the A-Frames--usually not by much, but they did.
The A-Frames retained more weight (though again not by much) but opened up wider, the rear and as well as the front, the reason they didn't penetrate as deeply.

In fact even when I have tested Partitions and A-Frames in smaller calibers, where the Partitions DO lose about a third of their weight, the penetration has been very similar, because the A-Frames open up into a wide ball.

Hey John are the Partitions in these heavier calibers cannelured? Anyhow you guys have seem these before but here are my recovered 300gr/375 Swifts l-r:
175yds Eland(298), 125yds Zebra 297(both shoulder)and 65yds wildebeest265(frontal shot recovered near the butthole). the last one is a 180gr ornay recovered from an impala (yes impala)shot on the point of the shoulder quartering towards (80grs recovered)

Yeah, they are all cannelured.

Nice bullets! One thing I like about A-Frames is the big hole they make.