Seriously considering taking my .308win using a Berger VLD 168gr hunting bullet because they shoot so accurate. I also have 150gr MRX that shoot well also, but trying this VLD is tempting.

Any VLD success stories in Africa you know of?

(gemsbuck,kudu,impala,warthog,blesbuck,sasquatch)

My .257 wby shoots VLDs well also, but I opted for somthing stouter. I went with TTSX...

I am not familiar with the Berger Hunting line. Are these a bonded-core bullet? If so, then I might consider them some more, especially since they shoot so accurately for you. If they are a traditional cup-and-core, personally, I'd look at something like the Barnes or Swift or North Forks. Given your trophy list, I'd definitely feel more comfortable using a bullet with tougher construction.

I would probably use these on some of the smaller guys - Springbok, Klipspringer, and Vaal Rhebok. Typically these species are hunted at longer distances and you could take advantage of the VLD's high BC.

+1 on the "go stouter"...


Ingwe

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=55120&highlight=bergers+africa

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=19468&highlight=bergers+africa

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=55375&highlight=bobby+africa

Personally, I would not use Bergers on big game until they design a specific big game bullet, not a target bullet that people try, find it works (kind of), and then the bullet marketing changes. Same goes for Match Kings and Amaxs. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations! There are so many better, stouter bullets out there that I would use first, rather than target bullets that work in the best case scenario (broadside at moderate ranges, not hitting any significant bone).

Don't get hung up on tiny groups for big game hunting. We all want 1/2" groups, but if a Barnes or Partition etc groups in 1.5" or less, the Barnes or Partition trumps the Berger/Matchking/Amax any day in my books for big game.

Man, the bullet is the cheapest part of the whole trip. We shot Barnes TTSX and I won't be hunting with anything else from now on for the game you're describing.

My daughters 140 TSX in the 7MM-08 and the 180 TTSX in the 300 RUM I shot performed just great and were very accurate in both of our rifles.

Considering how much each animal costs, and you own it if you scratch it, and how much time could be lost, if a bullet doesn't perform like it should, in tracking wounded game, I'd recommend getting the best bullet you can find that is proven. Wow what a goofy sentence that is.

The African animals are tough critters and two holes are better than one for tracking wounded. I recovered only two bullets, the rest exited. Bullets barnes tsx

Randy formerly posting as medicman

The African critters being so much tougher than those in the U.S.A. thing is a bit bogus. I have nothing against Barnes bullets and use them for several loads where they work particularly well but in my opinion accuracy and bullet placement trumps about everything else. Thus far I've taken over 20 animals in Africa and nothing I shot escaped despite the fact that I didn't use so called "premium" bullets on any of them. I used such things as Speer cup and core bullets, Hornady muzzle loader bullets and Hornady handgun bullets.

As for Berger bullets; I've used them as well though not in Africa. They work very well. My take with them include 4 Pronghorn Antelope and 3 Whitetail Deer all taken with one shot at ranges up to close to 300 yards in some cases. I shot one of the departing deer in the back of the left rear leg and it still was promptly dispatched so penetration is excellent and that was with a 115 grain Berger VLD out of a 25/06.

I would have NO reservations about using Berger VLD bullets on African plains game.

.............I`m sure that there just may be a few African VLD stories floating around around out there.

Based on my 30 cal 168 gr "hunting" VLD successful experiences on 32 hogs, plus using a 190 gr on one large bull elk, I wouldn`t hesitate at all to try the 190s or the 210s on the largest of African plains game.

Berger will tell you that you will need a minimum impact speed of 1800 fps for the VLD to penetrate thick bone in the case of a shoulder shot.

Vs the 168, I would prefer the 190 or the 210 VLD for the real big boys of the African plains. For medium sized African plains game, I`d bet that the 168 will do extremely well.

+1
Conventional bullets for standard cartridges, with the caveat of heavy for calibre. Premium projectiles for Magnum velocitys.

Why go with a marginal bullet< especially when using a modest round to begin with? you REALLY REALLY want two holes in your critters to make following the inevitable blood trails much easier. Would be a shame to lose a great trophy animal because of a poor choice in bullets, let alone losing precious safari time because it took so long to track an animal whether recovered or not. Makes no sense to me at all. Try the TTSX 165's. If they will shoot into 1.5 inches or less, (I predict they will shoot into less that 1 inch even) load em up and go slay your game. You will not be able to notice the difference in accuracy at African game shooting distances, and you will likely get two nice holes for your critters to bleed from as they run off.

I agree totally, even though I've used Bergers quite a bit with great success, even on some fairly large animals.

In 99% of Africa you'll never shoot at any animal more than 250 yards away. Super-accuracy is irrelevant, because even 1-1/2" accuracy at 100 yards will do just fine--and at even longer distances. I know this because I've shot a number of big game animals at ranges out to 400+ yards with rifles that wouldn't average any better than 1-1/2", and they worked just fine.

Also, in typical African thornbush country you're likely to get shots at animals angling in various ways, and despite how well Berger VLD's work (even on bone) they don't penetrate all that deeply.

To be honest, I'm constantly amazed at the people who somehow believe that 1/2" accuracy is necessary for most big game hunting. It's something to strive for if you plan on shooting over 500 yards, but for most hunting it's totally irrelevant, ranking right alongside barrel break-in, pillar-bedding, 3-18x scopes and other modern "advancements" that are supposedly completely necessary for shooting any kind of big game.

First of all, Berger bullets aren't "marginal" and secondly, you probably will have two holes.

As far as accuracy goes, most of Africa hunting will be at less than 100 yards but occasionally it can be a lot further and accuracy can be of help if you have to send your bullet through a small opening in vegetation.

I've never understood how someone can be satisfied with marginal and "minute of deer" accuracy. I like my guns to be all that they can be.

I have shot 400-pound animals with Berger VLD's and no, you won't "usually" have two holes, even on a broadside shot with heavier bullets.

Even several years ago I was running into African PH's who were complaining that too many Americans were showing up with rifles great for shooting whitetails at 600 yards but lousy for shooting kudu at 60.

Just out of curiosity; what were these great rifles? The several professional hunters I've talked to said Kudu weren't that hard to kill.

Kudu aren't as hard to kill as some other plains game, but they aren't exactly pushovers either. Since a big bull can weigh well over 600 pounds, some penetration is often required when they aren't standing perfectly broadside. I have personally taken one kudu that weighed over 700 pounds.

My experience with VLD's on 400-pound animals is that the odds of getting an exit on broadside shots is about 50-50. This is with 185's from the .30-06 and the .300 Winchester magnum. I have shot a 100-pound feral goat on a rear-quartering shot with the 185 VLD from a .300 Magnum and the bullet did not exit. It entered the rear of the rib cage and didn't make it out of the chest. In fact the goat went arond 150 yards and was still alive when we found it.

Plus, the entrance hole is about like poking the skin with a knitting needle. Without an exit there will be zero blood trail. There wasn't on that goat.

VLD's work great on pretty much broadside shots, and are super accurate. I like them for longer-range shooting in open country, but have found them far from ideal for shorter-range hunting.

The "great" rifles the PH's I know have complained about are typically in the .300 magnum class, with huge scopes way too big for thornbush shooting, and bullets selected for super-accuracy rather than deep penetration.

I shot a 100 pound Coues deer with a 115 VLD from a .257 wby at 570 yards and where was no exit and no bone hit. So, NO Grumulkin you WONT probably have two holes.

Sorry to hear that. Did it die fast and did it matter that you didn't have two holes?

Here is the second hole from a 168 grain Berger VLD shot from a 300 Weatherby Magnum at a lasered 292 yards. The "blood trail" was a red mist on the grass for 6 to 8 feet behind the pronghorn.

A little hard on the meat supply.

Grummy,

Last time I checked, a pronghorn is a tad smaller than an Eland....

No one here is questioning thier suitablility for the task of smacking smallish critters. Especially at long range, but for Africa there are better choices. MUCH better choices.

Actually, it did not die fast at all. The deer was hit nearly center of the lungs and took a good 30 minutes to die. Granted, he only went about 15 yards all together. I wouldn't want to chance it with e kudu or wildebeeste or oryx. Shoot ttsx and call it a day!

Yep, right answer.

Shooting a Pronghorn in the open is one thing, shooting a 600 pound Kudu, or a 1900 pound Eland is quite another thing. Just because you don't say you want an Eland doesn't mean you won't decide you'd like one once you get over there and see them in person.

How about this story, you're out hunting and it's almost dark and a monster Kudu comes out that the PH is going crazy over since he's not seen one that big in a while, so you shoot him. Except you didn't see the little branch that your bullet hit right in front of him, the trackers find that the next morning when they picked up the blood trail because there was no animal laying on the ground as the light faded. No big deal, it only takes a day and a half to track him down, and day fees are $300 a day. Now you've got what a $1500 animal and two day fees worth of tracking in the animal. You count yourself damn lucky the trackers are as good as they are or you'd be paying $1500 and have nothing to show for it if they hadn't have found it.

Personally I'd rather have a bullet that can go through a branch or four feet of animal if it has to cause I'd rather spend day fees having fun hunting than I would feeling sick to my stomach follow a PH and his trackers all day while they're talking in Afrikaans and you don't know wtf they're saying. It's probably something to the effect of " If this freaking American had used a bullet that would go through that little branch we wouldn't be sweating our asses off chasing this bugger through the brush all day" Naaa, I bet it wouldn't be something that nice.

It cracks me up how people get so emotional about scopes and bullets.

If your .308 is the rifle you're most comfortable with then use it, but please do yourself a favor and get the best proven bullet you can in your rifle, and then practice every minute you can dry firing off your shooting sticks. I promise you'll thank yourself that you did that.

Remember Sig888, the vitals for African Plains game are not aft of the shoulder; they are in line with the shoulder. That means that you aim, generally speaking, for the shoulder. I wouldn't dream of using a Berger VLD on a Gemsbok or a Kudu -- I don't care how accurate they are. Remember, you'll pay that trophy fee regardless of whether or not you recover the animal.

You don't need a HUGE caliber to hunt Plains Game, but the .308 is at the lower end of what I personally would take to Africa. It's not that I don't think a .308 will do the job; it will. It's just that the huge financial risk associated with lost game make it ESSENTIAL that you take a well-constructed, controlled-expansion bullet such as the TSX, Partition, GMX, Northfork, etc.

One more suggestion: Take your advice from those in this forum who have actually been to Africa and hunted African game. Pictures of antelope that died a horrific death at the hands of a VLD tell you NOTHING about its suitability for PG. I took a .375 H&H with the 270 TSX, and I'd take it again. Necessary? No, but man did it shoot straight and work very, very well.

Uhhh...for big Plains Game at .308 energy levels, they are most definitely MARGINAL. Sorry, I don't care how well they kill deer. The Berger VLD is a great bullet, but it's out of its league for this application.

My personal belief is that a good, premium quality, hunting designed bullet is nothing short of a dirt-cheap insurance policy for a very expensive hunt. You owe it to yourself to go with the best, provided that the bullet will shoot well out of your rifle and you feel confident using it.

In my case, a 140gr. Nosler AccuBond out of a 7mm-08 was plenty of gun to take kudu, gemsbok, impala, warthog, springbok, steenbok, caracal and jackal. Not one ran more than 100 yards and the bullet held up as advertised.

I'm heading back to Africa this coming Spring and the philosophy remains the same. This time around, I'll be working up loads for a couple of bullets I have seen post-safari evidence from via another Africa veteran, those being the Barnes TSX and TTSX. My lone complaint with the AccuBond was that in the 140gr. weight, I couldn't achieve full penetration through a broadside kudu. Make no mistake, the bullets killed all of the game dead as dead can be. That said, I want to see if a higher retained weight will be the difference maker in secure an exit wound and hopefully more consistent blood trails, especially from the 7mm-08.

.................Richardca99.............Have you ever tried using the heavier 190 and 210 gr 30 cal VLD on larger African plains game such as kudu or eland?

Berger`s headquarters are located here in So Cal. I have conferred with them in person and by phone on a few occassions.

It seems that there is a general consensus amongst those VLD detractors who haven`t used them on large African game or otherwise, that the hunting VLDs may not be capable of fully penetrating thick bone as would be needed for a shot into the shoulder of say a big eland or kudu.

While in a discussion about large African game recently with Berger, Berger does reco a minimum of 2000-2100 fps impact velocity for just such larger African animals for thick bone penetration, then continuing on into the vitals (which are located in the center of the animal, girth wise) with typical VLD destruction. They reco an 1800 fps minimum impact speed for large elk bone penetration.

With that said, they do caution that using the lighter VLDs at greater speeds, would not be the best case scenario for largest African plains game. The testimonies by hunters submitted to Berger who have used the VLDs in Africa on large plains game seem quite impressive from what I`ve read, particularly when using the 30 cal 190s and the 210s.

Now, I`ve never been to Africa, and obviously have never used the VLDs on African game. So I`m no expert in that dept. My successful VLD experience is primarily here on hogs and on one large bull elk which I know, isn`t exactly large African plains game.

However, I will keep an open mind, continually reviewing the testimonies and tips (available at Berger) from those who have used the VLDs in Africa.

Bigsqueeze, I have not taken the VLD to Africa, as I don't think it's the right bullet in any weight. I'm quite sure that PG have been killed with the VLD. I just won't take the chance given the money that's involved in trophy fees. My primary objection is a financial one, and I know that a controlled-expansion bullet has been proven effective time and time again.

I'm certainly not a Berger detractor. Far from it. They make a fantastic product and seem to have great quality control. I've got four boxes of 30 cal and 7mm Hunting VLD on the reloading bench at the moment, and they're destined for two of my deer rifles. Do I think that the VLD is over-hyped a bit? Yes, I do. It turns out that if you take a target bullet with a thin jacket and give it a very sharp tip, the bullet will make it past the hide and into the vitals before it explodes like a grenade. Seems to me that Nosler proved this with the original Ballistic Tip years back. If placed in the vitals, this will almost always result in an instant and dramatic kill. For deer and antelope, I'm a believer. I'm sold.

What concerns me is what will happen if that bullet is NOT precisely placed, or if quartering-away shots through tough bone and hide are required. I'd rather hedge my bet in favor of a bullet that I trust is going to hold together regardless of placement.

I'd have to see a lot of elk shot in the shoulder with a VLD before I'd be convinced that it's the right tool for the job (out of my gun). I never said that it wouldn't do the job. I can pound nails with a wrench, but a hammer is better suited for that particular task.

...........Thanks for the feedback. I`m aware of the particular concerns regarding quartering to and away shots, how lack of penetration with angled shots have to be considered.

On my last elk hunt, I had pretty much a broadside shot from 328 yards using a 190 gr "hunting" VLD. That bullet not only penetrated the thickest part of the bull`s right shoulder bone, but continued on to do enormous internal damage. Later, many bullet fragments were found just below the hide on the opposite side. There was no exit hole. For this elk load, the muzzle velocity from my 300 WSM Ruger compact with the help of some RL17, averaged 2890 fps here at the lower altitude (below 3,000 ft at the ranges I use) here in So Cal.

In this case anyway, I`m not so sure that a VLDs penetration should only be limited to only the 15-16 or so inches as is purported. With my elk anyway, that was certainly not the case, as the penetration and damage went further. Had I used a faster 168 or a 175 VLD, I don`t think the penetration or damage would have been quite as extensive.

On quartering shots, to or away, say at no more than about 30 degrees or so, a top view of a typical large bull elk reveals, that such quartering shots are very do-able and capable of hitting the vitals. The distances to the vitals, are all not that much more than would be a broadside shot to the vitals. The bullet angle is the key on a quartering shot.

Although this was my first time using a VLD on elk, by my description, you can understand my initial impression of the VLD on elk. In this case, spectacular to say the least. The bull dropped within 4 yards of impact.

In fact, the 7mm VLDs which you currently have on your bench, get much more publicity regarding extended longer ranged hunting than do the 30 cals. One example, such as a 180 gr 7mm VLD, taking down a bull elk at just over 900 yards with a 7mm Remy Mag.

I have to think that if they work well at extended ranges, they`ll work all that much better at the shorter ranges too. Looking at the #s alone, the downrange energy and velocity retained by my 190 VLD at 328 yards, well exceeds a 7mm 180 VLD at 900+ yards. That probably explains that extra penetration on my elk.

Happy hunting!

slg888, I know where you are hunting, been there. No comment about the Bergers. Longest shot you are looking at is maybe 150 yds.[mine weren't that long]. Gonna show my grey hairdness, load a 180 gr., nosler partition, sighted in at 100 yds., dead on, at a middle of the road velocity, and go forth and slay critters! and enjoy yourself.......


maddog

bigsqueeze,

Even a big bull elk is no more than 20" through the thickest part of the shoulders, so no, your VLD didn't penetrate more than 16".

I have seen a MUCH tougher .30 caliber, 180-grain bullet than a VLD go completely to pieces on the shoulder of a big eland. This was at 300 yards, from a .300 Winchester Magnum, so excessive velocity wasn't the problem. Luckily, the hunter was able to put another shot behind the shoulder, which killed the bull. Only fragments of the first bullet were found. It did break the shoulder, but didn't get through the ribs.

I like VLD's a lot, and hunt with them every year. But they are NOT an all-around bullet for hunting all sizes of big game, in various conditions.

I suppose anything's possible but what would be the point of using Bergers? Stick with premium bullets. All the plains game I shot in the front half of the chest ended up one shot kills. I used Nosler Partitions.

Thanks for your knowledge everyone. Due to the almost unanimous decision here on the African fire, I'll purchase some 168gr TTSX bullets for the trip and also carry a few 168gr VLD. If possible shoot the Blesbuck, Wart & Impala with VLD and Kudu & Gemsbuck with TTSX. Try to build some self confidence using the VLD doing this. If it all works out that way.

Mule Deer has lot's of experience using the VLD's along with many other bullets so Im gonna go with his field experience to protect my wallet (no lost game). I need to slowly work myself into these accurate flying bullets, but Africa is not the place for personal testing VLD's on large game right now I suppose.

slg888,

Just out of curiosity, how much hunting have you done?

Thanks for asking Mule Deer,

25yrs of it. From black bears, mule deer, antelope and a chit load of whitetail all over North America. Never lost a deer with any bullet Ive used. VLD's are all new to me though.

This will be the 1st time to Africa and wanting to keep my rifle kill percentage at 100% if you know what I mean. Ive used 120gr ttsx successfully in the last 2 yrs in Alberta & SK, but trying new products that shoot well kinda has my attention to "see how it performs on game" if that makes any sense.

I'd just stick with the TTSX. For the hunt you have planned, you'll be doing yourself a disservice by bringing two different loads, IMO. Keep things simple. The best safaris are the ones where you have no idea as to what's around the next turn and if you're fumbling around trying to switch loads, chances are good you'll miss an opportunity. Is the .308 Win. your only option for this safari?

I agree that makes more sense, but after speaking with Afterum and also hunting with the same outfitter, he knew what was on the "kill" list just about everyday. Property for Warthogs, property for Impala, ect.

Like I say, if it works out. TTSX definitely 1st choice on Gemsbuck & Kudu hunts. Kinda like bringing 2 different rifles for game as lot of hunters do, except me bringing two different bullets weighing the same.

I'll be very interested in hearing the report of your hunt!

........They can grow to be a little wider than 20" at the shoulders. Laying down on their side they are not as thick as when standing. We found fragments just below the hide on the opposite side with some a little into the hide. So I`ll say that a good 20" of penetration was done.

But either way you cut it, agree with the VLD bullet for elk or disagree with it, I got me one big and beautiful dead bull elk.

Congratulations!

I also have a huge New Zealand red stag, killed with a Berger VLD. He was bedded across a canyon and never got up, just tipped his head back and died right there.

But I still wouldn't choose VLD's for typical thornbush hunting in Africa.

FWIW, had a friend who has been to a few safari's, took a M70 pre-64 his father passed down, re-bbl by Shilen, 26", he used 165 partitions for everything except elephant IIRC. Did fine.

2nd year, took 165 TSX, had some 'issues' apparently losing and/or wounding game, and swore he would never go back, and would use 165 PTs again. This was around 94-96 or so.

I have not followed up w/him since, but DO know the newest Barnes have improved and I am sure any issues with 'consistent expansion/performance' have been completely addressed and I would use them w/o hesitation.

Stoney I think you will do well as I know you will shoot where you need, and when you punch vitals, game is over.

I would think a good bullet in 308 might kill similarly (thinking penetration, etc.) as the older 7x57s used for decades with long heavy bullets. Given the 308 is so close to the '06, and recognizing it's long history w/success, I think you will be fine.

If I recommended a shootable larger round in a long action, I'd go with a 338/06 and 210 TSX or Partitions, or even 225 PTs. Fred338 over on 'accuratereloading' has shot the 338/06 210PT combo for his African plains game quite abit w/alot of success and to my knowledge no failures. Not saying you need a bigger gun, but if you wanted to carry a 2nd rifle, it's proven w/o the mag recoil of the WM.

FWIW, I think Ted Nugent said give me a 270 with a case of 150 PTs and I will keep Africa fed or something like that...

Slg888,

Now that we have bonded so close over the past couple days I hope you don�t mind if I offer my .02.

If you end up taking the VLDs and you use them first on the smaller animals I will bet you will have one in the chamber when you are looking for your kudu and gemsbok.

I find them to be the most effective bullets at all ranges I have ever used. That�s just my experience and is limited to North America but it is elk heavy.

We have a lot of rifles in Africa each year and the results are always the same, very good.

When we video for a living it behooves us to use the most lethal bullets we can and I have used the VLD in very close and also at distance.

Draw a unit 58 tag and we can talk elk if you will let us video and use our stuff, ol buddy.

Hey Jburns, I may shoot a few hogs & deer this year to see the performance I keep hearing about. So far everything Ive seen from your clips and others, I like what I see. Especially the accuracy they deliver in my .308!

Walt Berger is sending me a free DVD to watch this bullet in action also.

slg888,

Your going to get real sick of looking at my dumb ass on video.

I took 5 plains game animals, Kudu, Gemsbok, Impala, warthog and Zebra, with 180 grain Accubonds. All were shot completely thru with the exception of the Zebra that was hit in the left shoulder and the Accubond lodged in the right shoulder just under the skin. I will use the same 300WSM with my Accubond loads on our next South Africa trip. The accuracy is excellent and penetration more than adequate. MTG

J Burns, my use with the berger vld is very limited due to my experiences with the bullet. I loaded some 168s in my 300 win mag at around 3200 fps, I killed a nice buck at 250 yards, it was broadside and I hit it behind the shoulder. It had an exit on the opposite shouler that was quarter sized. Deer ran about 75 yards before falling but had a good blood trail so I was ok with the track. Day two I shot a doe quartering slightly towards me at 150 yards and I hit her in the shoulder. She ran 150 yards from impact and fell over just before she got to a thicket. I had an entrance right in the shoulder, no exit, and NO blood. She was in a field and that is probably the only reason I found her cause if she had been standing on the edge of the pine thicket when I shot her, I may have found her but it would have been the next morning. Two days, two deer, and 225 yards worth of tracking after the shot. I cant count the deer ive shot with my 300 and dont think ive tracked all of the rest of them as far as those two. That experience has pushed me away from the VLD and I am wondering if you have ever had any experiences like this. As far as using them in Africa, I have never been but if all I had was that 308 id load me some 150 ttsx up and get to work.

I was just over on the Berger site and read JB`s Aug-Sept `07 article about the Berger hunting VLDs. A very good read, which btw, the VLD skeptics should read.

Interestingly, I also got into the "success stories" section viewing the photo pics and reading the testimonials.

Gee! I see a big African kudu there, other African plains game, two or three bull moose, elk, big stags, and some others.

Now we all have read about perceived bullet failures from just about every brand of bullet available out there. There will always be those kinds of rare reports in some form or another.

Your definition may differ, but I consider bullet failure as in, "placing the shot well and the game does not die."

If the game dies quickly and effectively, but via one`s perception, the bullet appears to have failed due to its lack expansion, lack of weight retention, penetration, or whatever,,,,,then the bullet imo, really didn`t fail.

The final results of those VLD users shown, not including the many more successful VLD users, is all what matters. They all had dead animals............Period!

Vs the largest African plains game, I would place bets on the 30 cal huntings VLDs, such as the 185, 190, or a 210. And I`ll also bet on the side of the heavier 7mm hunting VLDs as well.

Anyone have a picture of a recovered VLD? I'd like to see one.

...........I`ve seen some posted either on here or on the Berger site. Don`t remember exactly where.

But for me and for the other VLD users whom I know, it really doesn`t matter if none of the bullet, 1/8 of it, a 1/4 of it, 1/2, or any other larger portion part is recovered or not. I`m concerned with what the final end result is (a dead animal), rather than with bullet weight retentions, expansions and so on.

My goal, as best as possible, is to pretty much drop them in their tracks, so that I can substantially reduce any additional tracking and reduce the time associated with it, especially before darkness creeps in.

I`ve done my share of tracking, and tracking in darkness with flashlites.........No more of that crap.