Buyer beware.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/3471078051/p/1

That is a frightening story.

Hard to believe that a booking agent wouldn't have some obligation, particularly so if the checks were made out to him, or his company, and he, or his company, cashed them.

If the outfitter actually did cheat a bunch of people out of $$ and is dying, I hope that he dies a painful death and that the people who have judgments against him strip the carcass of his estate to the bones and then take the bones and sell them!

JEff

I actually received a e-mail from Blair this weekend involving discounted hunts,

You can pretty much imagine what the focal point of my reply was about.........

WOW! what a douche!

This has recently been hashed over plenty on the Campfire. Check out the general big game forum.

The comment I made is that anybody who lays out that kind of money for a hunting trip (or anything else) without buying trip insurance or CAREFULLY reading the booking agent's contract is eventually going to get stung.

Is there actually insurance, that will cover you 100 percent in all
situations like this?

Why do I doubt that...

I can't wait for my next unsolicited call from Jeff Blair!

Mike

http://www.travelguard.com/sportsmans/

John,

I have found that booking agents, outfitters, and guides are easily offended if you ask for a hard copy of what they willing tell you F2F or over the telephone. I ask a lot of detailed questions and want, expect, detailed answers.

It seems to me that if you believe in your product, you should be willing/able to stand behind it.

JEff

That's not uncommon, but the best ones are very forthcoming. Anymore I won't deal with anybody who won't provide a contract.

On the other hand, a lot of people expect hunting to be 100% guaranteed. I was on a hunt in Alaska a couple of years ago with a bear outfitter (very honest, and a long time in the business) who was reamed out by a client who evidently thought he was buying a high-fence deer hunt, with every night spent in a fancy lodge 15 minutes from heated blinds. The client didn't like living in a backpacking tent and not having his choice of giant bears within 2-3 days. Not so oddly, the only "outfitted" hunt the client had ever been on before was a high-fence deer shoot. So it works both ways.

The booking agent I've used the most is the one that got me started buying travel insurance. As he put it, "I offer a high-risk service during a specific period. If you can't make it because your father dies, then why should I refund your money? I'm sure you father was a great guy, but I didn't know him, and you signed the contract with me."

I know booking agents and outfitters are already paying out the nose for insurance, just in case somebody gets their toes stepped on by a horse or gets food poisoning from camp food. But if they became totally liable for YOU not being able to make it, or the outfitter dying of a heart attack, then their charges would go up enormously.

Trip insurance is cheap. For a $10,000 hunt it runs a few hundred bucks, exactly how much depending what you want covered, whether medivac helicopters or non-refundable plane tickets. You can buy it for any kind of trip, including a beach vacation in Hawaii.

I agree with Mule Deer that when you go hunting you are not buying the animal, but rather the hunt. The problem with Jeff Blair is that he sold a hunt and has refused to provide it. If you read the entire thread on AR you will see this is not the first time he has done this. His email address is also listed in the thread and I sent him an email asking if the allegations were true to which he has not responded. He has responded to others saying he is only a "travel agent" and bears no responsibility in this matter.

Which is probably exactly what his contract states. I don't know, having never booked a hunt through Blair, but I have seen a number of booking-agent contracts in the past dozen years.

Unless the booking agent's or outfitter's contract specifically states they will refund any pre-paid money at any time, anybody who books a hunt should buy trip insurance. It's that simple.

Mule Deer,

You are probably right, but I have never seen his contract either so it is only conjecture on both our parts. What gets me is that even casual hunters knew about the Heathington fiasco, but this self proclaimed expert gave him $50 or $60 thousand of his client's money and is still able to look at himself in the mirror each morning.

The thing I know for sure is his web site promises, "There are no gambles when booking with Blair Worldwide..." I guess that means if you book with Blair you are going to get screwed 100% of the time.

Wow - this is some funny stuff. People actually sue their babysitter when then get stepped on by a horse or get sick from eating crappy camp food. Why do these people even go hunting? When did it become something like what Mule Deer describes???? Go and do it yourself!!!! When your horse steps on your foot you can blame yourself, when you get the schits from your own bad cooking, blame yourself!! The best way to avoid getting screwed by an outfitter or booking agent is not to use one.

Spot on!

Ranger1: I see you reside in MT. Try hunting brown bear, sheep or mountain goat in Alaska or cape buffalo in Zimbabwe

Makes me want to get back in the biz. Might do so. We nearly always kept the deposit money here in the US until after the hunt was satisfactorily completed and paid the outfitters at the end of the hunting season. Only when we pere pressured to send it ahead did I start to have problems and eventually left the industry. Should be a better way to do this. I feel a trip to visit with hunting outfits and PH's and Alaskan guides coming over me. There is a right way to do this and provide a valuable service to both the hunter and the outfitters.

first, it is not normal in my experience for the hunt to be paid for 100% far in advance, shifting all risk to the hunter long before the hunt. second, I'd really like to see Blair's contract.

I don't know if those guys got my name from DSC or SCI or where, but for years I have received unsolicited mailings, emails, and even robo-calls from Blair. Glad I never responded.

He IS an efficient marketer. Can't fault him for that part. Had the same experience. Give your e-mail address to about any company now or - heaven forbid - your cell phone number and BOOM! You are now locked into the international robosystem until you make cahnges to the numbers or addresses. These numbers and such get traded and sold as well.

AARP is the worst offender.

Perhaps you can post a primer on how one would accomplish that for dangerous game in Africa. Long way to ride your horse.

even without oceans involved....acquiring a wall tent, cooking outfit, horse trailer and horses is a bit ridiculous for a one shot elk hunt. Thus the outfitter.

These threads always bring out the DIY purists.

"purist"? you are too kind..

I don't know who you have been dealing with but all the booking agents & outfitters I know prefer contracts to avoid misunderstandings. I operated a part time booking business for many years & found it was a hard way to make a buck. There is little loyalty with successful hunters & outfitters to support the booking agent. In addition to a written contract, belonging to SCI, & subscribing to The Hunting Report, provides valuable information & a resource for appeals if a hunt goes South. I have been involved with several outfitters charged with ethics violations by a SCI member. A hearing is conducted & all sides are offered an opportunity to state their position. The Ethics Committee issues a suggestion to the board who makes the final decision. If an outfitter or booking agent is banned by SCI it usually means going out of business. The Hunting Report reviews member reports & investigates negative comments. If the outfitter or booking agent failed to perform the issue is published. Bad publicity affects the ability to book future hunts. Several years ago I filed a negative report on a SCI chapter hunt with The Hunting Report. As a result, this outfitter has been baned from several outfitter shows & lost a lot of customers. One of my friends booked a lion hunt in a great area only to find out on arrival that a severe drought had driver the game far away. With nothing to feed on the lions had left long ago. After day 5 of a 12 day hunt my friend left for home without seeing any game animals much less a lion track. Eventually with the assistance of SCI & The Hunting Report some of his money was recovered. I have no idea if Blair is at fault or not, but if it were me I would have filed reports with SCI & The Hunting Report. The bad publicity Blair is receiving is far less than reaching a settlement.

What's wrong jorgeI? Skill envy?

The exact opposite, you'll figure it out someday.

Enlighten me

Do you know any of the legalities for a non resident hunting in some of the places mentioned?

And thats before even cosidering the practicalies if a DIY hunt were legal..

Most places in the lower 48 allow hunting without the use of a guide or outfitter. While some hunts require the use of an outfitter for NR hunters or those from another country, I was addressing the comments made by Mule Deer re: those who would sue the guy they are paying because a horse stepped on their foot or they got sick in camp. Rather pathetic! It seems that more and more people are under the impression that the only way for them to have a "good" hunt is to hire an outfitter. This simply isn't true in all cases. It is akin to handing the mechanic wrenches and then claiming to have fixed your own car. What about the skills involved in the process?! I'm fully aware that certain hunts require a guide/outfitter depending upon your residency status, however, most in the lower 48 don't. Even AK only requires a guide/outfitter for 3 species as far as I know.

New Mexico requires non res to be guided on Elk I believe?

Not forgetting this is the African forum, DIY unguided hunts by non residents in most of Africa is nearly universally impossible...

Legalities aside, for the average joe to outfit a hunt, travel a thousand miles across America to hunt in an unfamiliar area within a limited time window for say Elk and stand even a small chance of being succesful is extremely difficult.

Granted many people who book through guides/outfitters are actually trying to buy guaranteed trophey success, and I agree that is wrong attitude, but its eaqually wrong to tar everybody with the same brush..

Actually, I am still waiting for you to enlighten me on how to self-outfit my next African DG hunt. I mean, after all you imply anyone that uses an outfitter is somehow helpless or uninformed. And I think I am typing this on an Africa forum. So please do tell me what I am doing wrong. I assume it must be a subject about which you have great expertise. God knows you have posted enough. So please let us know. I have spent most of my professional career in a lot of the darker corners of the world, and the last several hunting a bit of it. I know a little bit about getting around out there, but I missed the course on self-outfitting in the Zim, the Caprivi, or Botswana.

Exactly, and being this is the AFRICAN forum, it begs the question; enlighten us on how you've managed to hunt African without the services of a PH/outiftter. As to hunting in the lower 48, some of us are less fortunate in that we are "geographically challenged", i.e, living in Florida for example. Regardless and some of us are fortunate enough to have developed other skills that afford us the luxury of hiring an outfitter to do all the preliminaries, thus giving us the time to be able to enjoy a hunt in places where we do not have the time to do it all ourselves. Lastly, I don't lose sleep overnight over comments by someone who is fortunate enough to live in a place where hunting opportunities are pleantiful or that thinks anything short of being Daniel [bleep] Boone is tantamount to a lack of skill. I've hunted DIY plenty of times, but at this point in my life I have the means to hire someone who can put me in the right place so I can have an enjoyable hunt. Not a question of skills, it's a question means and priorities in life. consider yourself enlightened. jorge

Blair Worldwide has been big news lately due to some problems with a sheep hunt - nothing to do with Africa, although I would imagine that their services would be equally reliable in re: to an African hunt. I have zero experience nor desire to hunt in Africa, I have already stated in previous posts just what I was directing my comments toward. I am aware that hunting Africa is exclusively the realm of those utilizing an outfitter - in cases where there is no other alternative, more power to you. I do hate to see the skill set of the independent hunter die, and for whatever reason, see it replaced with a near universal reliance on outfitting.

I hunt Africa, WITHOUT an outfitter. I deal directly with the PH. Like I said, if I lived where you live or in any of the blessed West, I would do a little more DIY, but even then, I have lots of things going on in my life to devote the time some can to hunting. I have some benefits here in Florida, unfortunately none have to do with hunting. jorge

No offense meant to either of you fellas - I'm more than a little passionate about doing things on my own and I often let it get in the way of civility.

No problem friend. Just struck a nerve. Haven't "outfitted" for a whitetail in the Blue Ridge and don't plan to do so. Just not many options across the big water.

What a bunch of unskilled hunters and outdoorsmen. In 1974 after I graduated from college I flew to Alaska and spent the summer working in Cold Bay. After Labor Day my father air feighted my rifle to Anchorage, I bought some food and packed my pack then hitched hiked to McCarthy, Alaska. Once in McCarthy, I found a pilot who flew me into the the Wrangle Saint Elias to hunt mountain goat. A week later he picked me and my goat up and back to McCarthy and the next day I hitched hiked back to Anchorage and Gridwood where I was staying. Nothing hard about it.

Several years later I was a resident and drove to Fairbanks, flew to Fort Yukon and onward to Arctic Village and a charter pilot flew me to the northside of the Brooks Range. Ten days later he picked me and my sheep up. Nothing hard about it.

Since then I have done the same with a caribou hunt and a moose hunt. I have been on several guided hunts in BC and several guided fishing trips in Alaska and one trip to Africa. If hunter after accessing the area is not able to do there own hunting then why go hunting. Remember everything you need to know is in the Boy Scouts Handbook.

Let's just say I DO have "geographical envy." If I lived where you live, I'd be out there in the woods every day doing it on my own. IT must be great! jorge

Except for the part where you hired somebody to fly you. Man, how UNSKILLED can you be. I can fly an airplane in my sleep....

well i can crash them in mine! so there!

forgot the... grins

Classic!

It's really quite silly arguing guided vs unguided. I hunted mnt goat and brown bear solo for years while living in Alaska, but now have to hire a guide to hunt the same mountain I've hunted many times by myself. Not too happy about that, so I just apply for goat tags in the lower 48 and hope for the best. Problem is if I actually want to hunt goats, I have to go where the tags are. That means a guide. Don't like it but thats the way it is.

Some folks live in the wrong part of the country and have too many responsibilities to take more than one week a year off for a hunt. Doesn't make for the best DIY hunts, usually.

I'd love to still be living in Alaska. If I was I probably would have never used a guide in my life, but as the say stuff happens.

As far as honesty of booking agents and contracts, I've only used Atcheson. I've never had any problem getting in writing what was agreed upon between me, Atcheson, and the outfitter. There are many booking agents out there, but why would you risk your money and hunting oppurtunity to some fly by night operation. Doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess some are always looking to save a buck, no matter what it costs them in the end.

I an not stupid enough to buy and airplane.

Jorge used the planes that they let him play with.

but desserve it too by his time given to his country.

Oh man, I never saw something that good coming... A body slam from the top rope....

Wow! That is amazing! You are the best hunter I have ever heard of on the internet ever! I bet you are awesome with the ladies too??!! Any pointers for the rest of us??!! You are my hero always and forever!!!

There were things that I wanted to do and I did them. I had very little money, but where there is a will, there is a way. I was younger in those days. In the 60's I watched Alaskan hunting movies and decided that is what I wanted to do. In 1972, I was 20 years old and a junior in college, I worked seven twelve's working road construction in Yellowstone Park, quit on August 15 th and left for Alaska two days later. I had five hundred and fifty two dollars and was gone 28 days, hunted for several weeks, chartered a PA 14 on floats and got a caribou. A small cow, but I went the distance, a distance that 99% of the American hunters could not or will not do. They are afraid. I returned to Missoula with $32 in time for fall classes. I get things done. Two years later with a degree, I spent the next 4 years there. Then the next year backpacking around the world.

I have the pictures and trophies.

Abc, I believe what you say and I admire your independence,

But this thread isnt about what "we" could do 38 years ago, its about what we can do now..

I started the thread to warn other hunters about a possible scam artist not so you could put down other hunters. Why not start a thread of your own called, "Why I am a Better Hunter Than All of You" instead of hijacking this one with those claims and put downs?

Sometimes I wish we had a "Like" button like Facebook.

Man, it just never ceases to amaze me how good threads get hijacked.....


maddog

Well put. A friend of mine and owner of a large gunshop has the financial means to hunt almost anything anywhere on the planet, yet chooses to employ the services of reputable guides to provide him with a quality hunt.He has a business to run and is money ahead by going this route.

BTW, he also spends about a month each year on rented horses and equipment hunting PUBLIC land doing the self guide thing in pursuit of trophy elk.

C'mon Greg, I'd opt for the "Easy" button so I could get that pesky Leopard!

Mike

Oh... Jorge didn't need to BUY an airplane. He flew one (a Lockheed S-3 Viking) that was most kindly provided to him by the United States Navy. And, he flew it from (and landed it on) aircraft carriers. That's why Navy pilots are referred to as AVIATORS.





Lockheed S-3 Viking (video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDElHFDGxiM


Cheers!
-Bob F.

I heard back from Blair:



That's all he said. He's Cc'd a [email protected] -anyone care to guess why?

He didn't even have the decency to answer my questions!

Skip is an attorney. Stands to reason, he is Blair's attorney.

Hmmm.....


"The case stood out in the frenetic mill of drug cases in federal court because of Juan's job adjudicating criminal cases on the Tohono O'odham bench and through the presence of her powerhouse lawyer, Alfred S. "Skip" Donau, who has represented, among other big names, retired Mob boss Joe Bonanno."

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/weed-whacker/Content?oid=1067827



Former Mob Big Bonanno Dies
'Joe Bananas' Headed One Of New York's Original Mafia Families
TUCSON, Ariz., May 12, 2002

By John Esterbrook

(AP) Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonanno Sr., former head of one of New York City's five original Mafia families, should be remembered both as a notorious mob boss and as a man who lived here in peaceful retirement for decades, his lawyer said.

"Had he been born into different circumstances, he had the intellect and charisma and leadership skills to be a CEO of a major corporation," said lawyer Alfred "Skip" Donau.

The rest of the article is here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/12/national/main508740.shtml



Also see:
http://www.morelaw.com/lawyers/atty.asp?f=Alfred&l=Donau,%20III&i=41645&z=85719-2033


-Bob F.

I posted this in the General Big Game forum the other day but I'll post it here as well. Here is the email that I sent to Blair Worldwide hunting on Saturday or Sunday, I have yet to hear from them.

Jeff,

I am concerned about some recent accusations leveled against you on various websites. They are very serious and would like to hear your side of the story before I form an opinion

I am quite sure you are aware of the thread over on Accurate Reloading but just in case your not aware here is a link

http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1

There are a number of red flags that pop up but I dont want to talk about Larry Heathington or his issues, although I do find it disturbing that a booking agent would actually take another $35,000 in December of 2009, two months after Heathingtons issues in September of 2009.

What disturbs me the most is that you have not refunded your "commission". The people that booked this hunt trusted you to find them a Desert Sheep hunt for their father and based on your recommendation they are out $70,000. Jeff, how are you entitled to a commission? Please help me understand this because from the one side of the story I have heard your just as bad, if not worse, that Larry Heathington. It was also brought up that you added an extra $10,000 to the cost of the hunt to pocket for yourself. That sounds about right as the going rate for sheep is between $45,000 and $60,000, maybe a little less now due to the economy. The ranch where I have guided for Desert Sheep was $60,000 and that was one of the more expensive ranches on the mainland of Sonora.

Again, why are you entitled to keep the extra $10,000+commission from this disaster that you booked for this family? The service that was supposed to be provided by both you and Larry Heathington was NEVER provided.

In looking at your website there are a few things that stand out to me, you claim that "no detail is left to chance" and that "there are NO gambles when you book with Blair WorldWide Hunting". If this were true it seems like you would be using all of your rescources and experience to not only refund the money that you pocketed but doing everything within your power to assist your clients in getting the rest of their money refunded from Larry Heathington. Why dont you refund the money and then go after Heathington on your own? That is what I would do, even if I knew I would never receive a penny from the man

There is a quote that I have remembered over the years and its this; "When a company or an individual compromises one time, whether it's on price or principle, the next compromise is right around the corner". It seems that you have comprimised on both price and principle in this matter. They say everybody has a price, from what I've read so far yours is less that $20,000

Jeff, I look forward to hearing your side of the story, as somebody that has been in this industry for 20 years I am really hoping that you have a valid reason for not refunding the money you have pocketed. If I dont get a response or if there is no reason for not refunding the money to this family I will email a link to the Accurate Reloading thread to everybody in my address book and ask them to email it to everybody in their address book.

I look forward to hearing back from you shortly

Drummond Lindsey

Skip Donau, now there's a blast from the past. He used to be a big wig in SCI. Always wondered what he did to get the cash to hunt the world. Now we know.

Like from another shady bastid that used to post here and on AR, you'll never hear back from him.

Messing with types of people involved, is 24hourcampfire at risk of liability? Who knows, Blair might even try to use the info from a forum like this to wager war on clients and try to sue them via former mob boss lawyer for defamation or character issues? I have no clue though and I only watch lawyers on TV

I just looked at Blair's website and it said that if I signed up I could get some hunts at up to 50% off.

I am not sure why he would get an attorney involved as he already admitted in one of the emails on AR that he took the money and that is was not his problem.

This posting is in response to the allegations which have been lodged incorrectly against Blair Worldwide Hunting on this forum and others.

Dr. Brent Henriksen and his brother, Mr. Tyler Henriksen purchased a desert bighorn sheep hunt on December 11, 2008, as a Christmas present for their father, Lonnie Henriksen. The Henriksen sons had been searching the internet for sheep hunts and a friend of their fathers referred them to Blair WorldWide. Lonnie had booked hunts with Blair WorldWide Hunting in the past. The contract provided that Lonnie Henriksen had a choice of outfitters from which to choose. It was determined by Lonnie Henriksen that he would hunt desert bighorn sheep, coues deer and bring his wife as a non-hunter with Sheep LTD, owned by Larry Heathington, who at the time, had an excellent reputation as a sheep hunter and guide and had guided many of the Governor�s tags for sheep.

As the booking agent, Blair WorldWide Hunting, pursuant to the requirements of the contract, sent the vast majority of the money Larry Heathington, who was the contracted hunter with Sheep LTD. Blair WorldWide, as a booking agent, is in a similar position to a travel agent that books travel on an airline or a cruise ship. When a ticket is purchased, the majority of the money goes to the airline or the cruise line and the booking agent retains a commission fee. It is the responsibility of the airline or the cruise ship to provide the services.

In this instance, it was the responsibility, and remains the responsibility of Larry Heathington, to provide the sheep hunts which were the subject of the contract. At the time the contract was entered into, the Henriksen�s were advised by Blair WorldWide, through the contract and via a trip insurance brochure, to buy trip insurance in the event that there was a problem with the hunt. The Henriksen�s chose not to do so. The fact that the majority of the Henriksens� money was forwarded to Larry Heathington has been established conclusively by providing the Henriksen�s, and their attorney with copies of the cancelled checks from Blair WorldWide to Larry Heathington.

After the hunt was booked, Lonnie Henriksen and Larry Heathington spoke at length, several times before the contracted start of the hunt. After the original hunt date of January 2010 did not occur, conversations between Mr. Henriksen and Mr. Heathington continued well into March 2010 in regards to the new dates and location of the desert big horn sheep hunt. For reasons which were not entirely clear to Blair WorldWide at the time, or to anyone for that matter, Larry Heathington has reneged on his promise to conduct, not only the Henriksen hunt, but other clients hunts as well. It was later disclosed by Mr. Heathington and Sheep LTD that he did not conduct the hunts contracted for due to health issues (See Sheep LTD�s website). The bottom line is that the dispute is properly between the Henriksen�s and Mr. Heathington, the outfitter.

Blair WorldWide did take extra steps in attempting to help the Henriksen�s recovery their money even though Blair WorldWide, as a booking agent, has no obligation both contractually or
ethically to do so. Blair WorldWide contacted Mr. Heathington on several occasions and strongly urged him to return the monies for the clients who did not receive their contracted hunts. When
those attempts failed, Blair WorldWide consistently assisted the Henriksen�s attorney in attempting to recover the money paid to Mr. Heathington through a civil lawsuit. In short, Blair WorldWide has done everything required of it, both legally and ethically, to assist not only the Henriksen�s, but also other clients, who contracted with Sheep LTD.

Blair WorldWide sincerely wishes that, not only Mr. Heathington and Sheep LTD, but all outfitters would provide the services that they contract for. However, in the real world, such is not always the case. Blair WorldWide has taken significant care to ensure that outfitters with whom clients are contracted provide good and legitimate services. Despite such care, every once in a while, an outfitter for a variety of reasons fails to perform. This is why trip insurance is recommended for all hunting and fishing trips booked. It is always clearly stated in all of Blair WorldWide contracts that the services contracted for are the sole and exclusive responsibility of the outfitter. Blair WorldWide sincerely hopes that the Henriksen�s recover their money from the person who possesses it -- That is Larry Heathington.

Any allegations that Blair WorldWide, in any fashion, deprived the Henriksen�s or any other party of their money improperly, illegally, or unethically, is simply untrue. The Henriksen�s have
retained counsel to attempt to recover their money from Mr. Heathington and Sheep LTD. The Henriksen�s have not, and cannot, legally claim that Blair WorldWide has withheld any of the funds owed to them by Mr. Heathington.

In sum, despite the unwarranted allegations to the contrary, Blair WorldWide acted at all times in an honest, professional, and ethical manner and any allegations to the contrary are not true

http://www.blairworldwide.com/paperport/SHEEPLTDWEBPAGE.htm

"sent the vast majority of the money ....."

If the hunt was fully paid for, I wonder how that comission helped out your and Blairworldwide's bottom line in 2009? Interesting concept of doing everything ethically required.

I posted a response over on AR but wanted it to be known here on this board that I think your a butthole. I have no clue how you can sleep at night with this sorry excuse.

I will share this with everybody I know

HS, went to AR, and posted my feelings too. This POS is giving good agents a bad name.


maddog

???

I see this is getting a little more attention here. When this first popped up on the General Big Game forum, there seemed to be a reaction that, well they should have bought trip insurance. Buying trip insurance is indeed good advice, and I will never book another expensive hunt without doing so. Perhaps some of what actually transpired could be considered in doubt. But now Blair has responded (response looks suspiciously like they lawyered-up to get it written), and they haven't explained away as much as they seem to think. I'll leave aside the legalities, even though it seems they have a due diligence obligation. But to claim that they acted professionally and ethically? Not by my definition of those terms. And what a poor business decision! Almost certainly they will lose more in the long run than the commission and possible mark-up on this one hunt.

Wow!! If that's the best you can do, you deserve the the financial beating this will most likely cause. I always thought your unsolicited calls and emails were pretty weak, but now I understand. With any luck you'll go broke over this.

Mike

I had a hunt booked through atcheson that fell through after I had paid a considerable (to me) amount of money. The outfitter was in a dfferent country and had gone out of business. Keith Atcheson called me and informed me of the details and sent a FULL refund out that week.

I can't imagine why anyone would use someone like Blair when there are very reputable booking agents out there like Atcheson. I'm sure there are others just as good, but I would never even consider another booking agent other than Atcheson unless Keith himself recommended I use someone else.

A hearty Amen to that.

:-Q

He has a good point. many states simply don't have any place to hunt unless you own land. And if I was to go to another state I am not familiar with, It would be extremely difficult to find an area that allows hunting that is not private land. It's difficult enough to find public hunting areas in a state where you live, but to be able to find that in a place your not familiar with can be near impossible, making it almost a necessity in many cases to find an outfitter. But i also agree that you are not guarantied a trophy and you are responsible for your self weather it's getting sick, falling off a cliff, breaking your ankle, shooting your self, or whatever....
But he did pay for the hunt and that should be guarantied!

... and you feel comfortable keeping your comission for a hunt that fell through becuase and outfitter you represented failed?

Real stand up Outfitter.

Larry Heathington has posted a response over at AR. He tells his side of this ordeal. His post shows how things really can get messed up.

He is fighting terminal cancer and he also says that most of the money was giving to the Mexican landowners for the hunt.

I feel for all involved. This event will likely have no happy ending for anyone...

Here it is along with the link to the thread. I'd bet my next pay check that Larry didn't write that. This whole thing stinks more than a bus stop $hitter!

Mike

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/3471078051/p/6

Well I am not a messanger boy and since my name is getting bandied about by people that have few or no facts "I will simply set the Record straight" My Name is Larry Heathington and I have guided both Desert Sheep and Rocky Mountains for over 30 years. This whole thing started way before the incident in 2009 as I have know Jeff and Audra Blair for almost the entire time I guided them. They are Arizonan's as am I and they were there watching the requested due Diligence as it was created. I guided for more than Sheep obviously but specialized in Deserts to the tune of well over 100 plus a good many Rocky Mountains as well having taken Boone and Crockett Rams in both catagories. Including the number 2 and 4 Deserts ever taken in Arizona. I also guided 10 past Presidents of SCI ( Keller, Pocuis, Cheremie) to other exotic species from Coues Deer to Tule Elk.
I will do this in a more or less cronological order so it can be followed more closely. In September of 2009 I was headed to New Mexico to guide 3 not two hunters on the State Landowner permits for Antelope. I pulled off at a non rest stop exit to go to the bathroom and subsequently was knocked unconcious by an assailant that came out of the bushes while I was being distracted by his partner. They stole some stuff out of my Pickup truck ( tent, stove etc) kicked the hell out of me and then left. I thought Thank God at the time but given recent developments I am not so sure. All of this is well documented in a Police report that was filed in Williams,Arizona as are the photograph's of my injuries which were significant (Major bruising ,Lacerated Cheek, Concussion etc) After I woke up I got in my Pickup and drove down the road a piece pulled over and passed out again and then the next day made it to a Hotel where I slept which is not good idea with a concussion but I was extremely disoriented , tired and did not call anyone immediately. But began notifying people from clients to my own children (who I would never scare for no reason)immediately as my head cleared. The Police have no reason to dispute those findings so I don't have any Idea why anyone else would. Both clients were given return hunts and the subject was closed accept for the ongoing Police investigation. Two of those clients belonged to Blair World Wide and the other one was from a private referall.

Once I got back on home ground I again slept soundly with prescribed medications and started building my strength between visits from my friends and family, until the following week when I had an Early Elk Hunter near my house. We hunted for a day or two and then took about a 350 Bull late one evening . During that time with the Elk client two landowners from Mexico arrived and collected their deposits on both Deer and Sheep hunts for December 2009 and January 2010. They were both open about the visit in front of the Elk client and why shouldn't they be they had nothing to hide. It is common knowledge that the Mexican Landowners want paid up front for their permits at least 30 days prior to the hunt, it is the norm not the exception. I then went about completing the rest of my Arizona fall schedule but I was having more than a little difficulty physically with some of the hunts, I assumed based on the concussion. My equlibrium was off, I tired easier than I had and just didn't feel very well overall. I even went to the Kane County Hospital in Kanab, Utah and was administerd an IV while I was on a Kaibab Deer hunt and struggling. (Medical Documentation is available)

The deposits having been paid along with the second payments I made arragements to spend Christmas with my Kids in Casa Grande, Arizona and then cross into Mexico in early January. I didn't feel worth a damn over that Christmas break but I had it to do so I crossed the border at Nogales in my Ford pickup on January 3rd headed to both the Sheep and Mule Deer Hunts. About 20 miles north of Santa Anna, Sonoro, Mexico I felt nauseauos and pulled off to the side of the Road where I began puking Bile and Blood. It scared the Hell out of me and I turned around and headed back to my primary Physician in Casa Grande,approximately 200 miles back north, I threw up all the way north and was very weak when I arrived, they immediately sent me to the Hospital at Banner Health Care in Chandler where I spent the next 10 or 11 days in serious condition having tests run daily to determine a cause.( Medical Records Available)..All during that time either my staff or I talked to the Clients and Mexican Land Owners keeping them informed as to what was going on and tried to get them all rescheduled. I had no idea at that time what was wrong with me nor did the doctor's. It is the assumtion of some of the doctors that my genetic's have a roll in this condition as I had a sister who died of a Liver condition at 38, and it was compounded by the 2009 beating plus the combination of diseases I had during my lifetime. Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Scarlett Fever, Tylenol use and other contributing factors.

Prior to my release the Doctor that was incharge of my case set me down and told me that I had "End Stage Liver Disease" and that it was in fact terminal and I could live anywhere from six months to two years., I find myself there now at the end of the first year having been taken to the Hospital (3) three times with very serious blood levels or bleeds and I did not think that I would ever see the light of day again on each visit. I am living in the Kingman area staying in a house that my sister has leased for me and I am in an inhouse Hospice program that began in May of 2010 (Records Available).

False Statements that I have read in all of this dialoge: I do not work for Blair World Wide Hunting I worked for the Mexican Landowners who paid me a straight $5000.00 per client finders fee to find the clients, get their paperwork( Gun Permits ,Photo's for the Cities, Accompaning each client to Mexico as their non hunting companion and evaluating Sheep for the Guide Teams). the Mexican's get the difference. I got my normal finders fee. All monies from Blair were paid to me and were then given to the Mexican's thru Bank Drafts, Transferrs, or they were picked up by the Landowners. Blair retains his commission and other fee's from the initial. deposit. I have worked for other booking agants in the past and that procedure is fairly common within their industry.

I have been served with three lawsuits two of which were dismissed for lack of activity in the past 60 days. That includes Brent Henriksen's which was dismissed this week by a Coconino County Superior Court Judge . (Dismissal's available) Since that litigation is pending my attorney told me not to talk to any of the parties involved pending a Court Judgement..I have not talked to anyone about these matters in the past several month's at his request.. Prior to that I was cordial and informative to the clients when I talked to them as was my staff. For quite along time now I have been on 15 Miligrams of Morphine twice a day and am often incoherent therefore I allow my friends, relatives or staff talk to the clients WHEN I AM MEDICATED OR AM INCOHERENT.

I didn't load the hunts if they were ever loaded I simply supplied an ammount to complete their requests when it was brought to my attention, non Hunting companions, Film Crews etc!!

I have never taken a dime from the Blair clients all of that money was handled out of Blairs office and the Mexican Landowners pay me either $5000.00 a Sheep Hunter or $500.00 a Deer Hunter. I completed those duties as best I could short of the hunt taking place as I was in the hospital, Gun Permits were bought, Tags were gotten from the Government of Sonora etc!! As for my personally booked clients all of the money was given to the Mexican Landowners and they pay me the fee, sometime reluctantly but they pay it.

I also recommended that Trip Insurance be purchased in my normal correspondence although none was to my knowlege. As you will note the excerpt that is on Sheep Ltds introductory Stating that I aws retiring was written FEBRUARY 1ST when I was under the assumtion thatr my guide days were done. I have had addition tests from Varied specialists that are of the same opinion as the one I first recieved I have " End Stage Liver Disease " which is terminal. Thus short of this letter to clear the air I have no attention of addressing this matter again as it is in the hands of my Attorney as per his request.

Larry Heathington

I'm gonna bet BWW changes it's name after this mess.......a snake like blair has lots of tricks up his filthy sleeve. And heathington?......he'll keep lying until his lips move no more.

No matter how you try to spin this Mr. Blair you still come out looking very very bad.

He didnt give a penny to the landowners. He did this to more than one sheep hunter. I will have more information tomorrow, I am speaking to several friends in Mexico that handle the paperwork for these things.

His post didnt show me anything that I didnt already know, he's a lying piece of crap. He and Blair stole money from these people and it absolutely disgusts me!

Too bad...he took the money to provide a service, and he didn't! He and Blair look like crooks, pure and simple. If an agent doesn't deliver on his promise to arrange a hunt, and he takes his commission without delivering that hunt, he is just a crook, not an agent.

As to the "outfitter" dying of cancer, so what? He accepted money to provide a service he didn't deliver. He owes the client a full refund of the portion he accepted no matter where the money went, subsequently.

There is a lot more information about these two crooks posted on AR now.

This needs to be at the top of the page

stop it, man. you're making me skeered.

Check out the new post by another alleged victim. He claims to be able to identify over $200k stolen.

Not surprising at all.

Bump to the top. Folks need to read this.

I think this is about to get interesting

Anymore news on this mess?

An AR member requested and received a list of judgements against that lying POS Heathington and Blair was the booking agent in at least one of the cases. Others have also come forward. Check out the link in the original post on this thread.

One AR member posted this about Blair....

"PS I booked one hunt with them but soured on them when they attempted to sell me an email subscription of discounted hunts they had available"

Damn, charge to see a list of hunts!

TTT

anymore info? never been to Africa of know any of the involved... but sounds like a plan to scam however you slice it...