I'm going to Africa in 2013 and found a nice deal on the subject gun. I looked up the recoil with a 270 grain bullet and it says 41 lbs. which seems a little high. Can you tell me about your experience with recoil while shooting this gun? Thanks.

shoot a 375 H&H and you'll have the idea.

Bluefish--not too many 375 H&H's where I live, I did shoot a Remington 375 H&H that was Mag-na-ported years ago and it didn't kick at all. Thanks.

Shoot a lightweight 12 ga shotgun and you will know

I have the Alaskan model and have shot it from the bench. It's stout but I look forward to shooting it again. +1 on what Phil says. If you have shot, or can get to shoot some three inch loads in a 12 guage, that will put you in the right neighborhood.

...but as in most things in this life, theres really nothing like the real thing.

I have one and would say this about right; my rifle with a 4x Leupold weighs 8.5 lbs which I also think is just right for the recoi. It's not bad at all IMO.

Borrow a single shot 12 ga and launch a Brenneke slug from it, aimed fire. This will probably exceed the recoil of the 375. Light muzzleloaders, heavy loads in shotguns are all about the same. Mine is a Howa with a SOOFT recoil pad, about 8.5# and its fine to shoot off the bench for a half dozen rounds. Part of the secret to dealing with recoil(take it from a wuss who knows)is to not over do any session. Another asset is a "standing bench" for sight in and load workup.

pussycat///

FWIW, has anyone ever felt recoil under field conditions? there you have it NJ. i load 220 gr Hornady FPs in mine to about 2250 fps for practice loads and with those or the 225 SPs you could hunt lots of critters though the 250 TBBCs I have loaded for big game leave one with the feeling they have quite the wand in their hand. then of course there are the plethora of 300 gr loadings upon which this ancient round's bona fides rest.

the 375 ruger will do all you want it to. good luck.

The Ruger Hawkeye African, which I assume is the rifle you reference, is a relative lightweight compared to other .375's, mostly H&H cals.
At 7 3/4 pounds, it is a good pound or two lighter than its competitors, which translates to more recoil.

The Ruger .375 is also loaded to higher velocities than standard .375 H&H rounds, as much as 100-200 fps higher. This also translates to more recoil.

I have a recently acquired Hawkeye African, and all up with scope, mounts, and a mag full of ammo, goes around 9 lb. From the bench, this is not a particularly pleasant shooter, but once sighted in, and a load or two is developed for it, it's not getting shot from the bench much anymore until it's time to go hunting. Field practice from sticks, sitting, kneeling, etc. is the next order of business.

I plan on developing a 300 gr. handload, with Barnes TSX bullets, at around 2600 fps MV., for use on Asiatic water buffalo in Argentina.
For a rifle that gets carried much more than shot, I kinda look forward to the 'deer rifle' weight of the Hawkeye. It's gonna have a few ft lbs more recoil than, say, a 10 lb. H&H, but everything's a tradeoff. I will say that its recoil is WAY less than my .416 Weatherby, unbraked and downloaded.

If you are worried about recoil in .375, about the only solutions are: more rifle weight, muzzle brakes, or downloading to reduce muzzle velocity, all of which have their drawbacks.

Since the minimum caliber for most African countries for dangerous game is .375, you're kinda stuck with either the H&H or Ruger. If, on the other hand, your safari is strictly for plains game, there are a lot of smaller calibers which handle the job very nicely.

THE original Holland & Holland 375 rifles were quite slim and lightweight and ran around 8 1/2 pounds and some were even lighter.



The 375 certainly kicks more than a 30-30 or 30-06 but is not so bad that anyone truly interested in learning to use one will have any problem

My daughter weighs 110 pounds and her 375 Ruger weighs 7# 4oz

Good thread. I'm also looking at the Ruger 375, and the 416. Is there much recoil difference between the Ruger 375 and 416, Phil? I know you have both in boat stocks. I'm shooting 180 gr loads in 30/06 now, for comparison.

Eric

There is a definite difference in felt recoil between the .375 and .416, but still manageable IMHO/IME

A healthy person of ordinary stature should not be troubled by the recoil of a .375, providing the rifle fits them. Zero it from the bench and spend the rest of your time shooting it from the sticks and offhand. Perceived recoil from the sticks and offhand is much less than bench shooting. You will hardly notice the recoil when shooting at game.

As stated in previous posts, magnaporting will reduce muzzle jump and hence, reduce perceived recoil. For various reasons, I don't like muzzle brakes.

I have no personal experience with the .375 Ruger, but much experience with the .375 H&H. The .375 Ruger has been around for about 5 or 6 years, the H&H for about 100 years. Ammunition for the H&H is available in most safari camps.

If you are hunting plains game only, consider something less powerful, such as a .30/06, .300 Winchester, .338 Winchester, 35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser. They will all do the job with less recoil. For plains game, I would suggest any .30 caliber or above that you shoot really well using premium bullets. Shot placement is more important than the power of a cartridge (within reason). If leopard is on the menu, anything from the .30/06 to the 9.3x62 will do you just fine.

If you are hunting lion or buffalo, the .375 H&H should be considered the practical minimum, though many lion (where legal) have been killed by much less, given good bullet placement.

Pick a rifle that fits you well in a cartridge that doesn't punish you and practice, practice, practice. Many people err by using a scope that has too much magnification. For most bushveldt shooting, a 1.5-6 or 1.7 -10 is all you need and you should keep it towards the low end of the magnification range unless some compelling reason requires you to crank it up. An illuminated reticle is a help.

I have no experience with the .416 Ruger, but a .416 Rigby (backed up by my .470) is my primary hunting rifle. Recoil is noticeably heavier than a .375, but still is quite manageable in a rifle of adequate weight that fits well.

If you are only hunting plains game, I emphasize again that you do not "need" either a .375 or a .416 UNLESS your concession has elephant and buffalo as well. Then carry a minimum of a .375 with a soft up and solids in the magazine. You can always eject the soft and chamber a solid in case Jumbo or Nyati unexpectedly come up on you.

Guys, thanks for all the info, keep it coming. Let me explain a few things. I'll be hunting plains game including kudu and gemsbok. Eventually I plan on going after eland and grizzly so I thought I should purchase this gun while I could. I shoot heavy shotgun loads (3 1/2") all the time while goose and turkey hunting (Browning Gold). I have a 300 Weatherby with a brake that kicks like a 270, when I take the brake off it kicks hard off the bench. I have developed a slight flinch from shooting 3 1/2" Mag Blend turkey loads off the bench while patterning my gun. I have other rifles that I could use in Africa, I just like the Ruger. I'd hate to buy the gun and then find out I can't handle the recoil.

Bob

I have a thing for the 375, either the H&H or Ruger version, which are essentially ballistic twins of each other. The laws of physics seemed to have converged on a very handy compromise of bullet weight, velocity, recoil (and thus not requiring an ungainly or overly heavy platform) suitable for making venison from whitetails to eland, taking bears from black to brown and everything in-between without being ridiculous at either extreme.

I don't think you'd find either 375 will kick off the bench more than the 3.5" 12 ga. It's very subjective, I know, and depends on other factors too. I also find the big 30's and .338s (I used a 340 B for about 18 years) to be generally more obnoxious or as much so as the 375 H&H or the Ruger version. I'll even throw in the 375 Mashburn here which is an "improved" H&H. This may be meaningless to anybody but me but IMO the big, fast magnums snap you, while the more moderate cased bigger bores push you.

I have never had the chance to shoot a 375 anything but have put several rounds of heavy LE/tactical slugs and buckshot down range through short light guns. Given the comparisons a 375 shouldn't bother me too much???

I would say, "no". The 375 H&H seems to have the reputation of a vicious kicker here maybe because of it's history as an African classic. IMO it's not at all--vigorous maybe.

Bob - a couple of years ago I happened on a nice used Ruger Number One in .375 H&H. Was pleasantly surprised on the first trip to the range to find that it didn't recoil harshly at all. The recoil was more like a big push. I even shoot it from prone with no problems.

The .375's tend to be accurate too. I was impressed with the groups I was getting downrange, and the bear 300 yards distant was very much impressed when the Nosler struck him dead.

I think you're going to enjoy that .375 Ruger. The African is a particularly appealing rifle.

Guy

Don't know about the .375 Ruger, never shot one. But what GuyM said above is right about the 375 H&H. Great cartridge, very accurate, and not that much recoil.


maddog

My first .375 was bought for a Brown bear hunt, nearly 30 years ago. It was a Golden Eagle, kinda a Wby lookalike, but reasonable cost wise. It shot Win. Power Point 270 gr. ammo rather well, and it accounted for a monster Brownie which I entered into the B and C record book.

The hunt, on the Aleutian Islands of Alaska, was in wet and cold conditions. It took quite a toll on the blue/wood rifle, in spite of my efforts to keep it clean and oiled.

On return, I cleaned up the rust spots, and sold it.

Now, I own another 375, almost 30 years later, and wonder what took me so long......

I have experience with the 375 Ruger African. The rifle is a delight to carry and shoots well. The only drawback is the piece of red tire tread they use for a recoil pad. A Decelerator pad makes a huge difference.

I set one up for a friend of mine before he went on safari. He is recoil sensitive and we put the pad on before he fired it. He never had an issue with the recoil.

I mounted a scope on one for another friend and shot it with the original pad. Not ridiculous, but no fun.

Yes I have fired my Ruger375 African under field conditions, 270 gr barnes triple shock, 74 grains R15, with a limbsaver recoil pad,very mild recoil.

Very nice bear!!

OK..just for that bear pic you get the first ever low post count YOU SUCK!


( That's a compliment, BTW......)

I have an M70 375 H&H out of the old Winchester custom shop and it is a pleasure to shoot. In fact, next to my 7x57 it is my favorite rifle to shoot, bench, sticks, whatever. At 10 1/2 lbs scoped it is much more comfortable to shoot than my Sauer M90 in .300 Weatherby. That friggen rifle will jar your teeth loose or detach a retina!


Mike

If the recoil bothers you put it in a Hogue stock. The Hogue stock is the reason that the Alaskan Models feel like they have less recoil than the African Model, even with the shorter barrel. At least to me they do. I like the Hogue stocks, so I put one with the full length bedding block on my African and it really made a difference in felt recoil. They are also quiet and weatherproof.

Yes, houston, fellow Hawkeye, very nice bear and welcome to the fire.

Craig Boddington uses a .375 Ruger in Africa, and has written several interesting articles about the caliber and rifle.
He also mentions it in his book, 'Safari Rifles II', which is very well worth reading and owning if you have an interest in hunting Africa.

The difference between the 375 Ruger/H&H and the 416 Ruger/Rigby/Rem is the difference between fear and FLINCH to most shooters. Many flinch with a puny 300 magnum, so figure the odds.

Which Decelerator pad did you mount on the African? Will the pre-fit pad they list for the Ruger 77 MkII fit the Hawkeye African?

I had two 375 Africans that I eventually traded off. I liked the gun, but a GOOD pad would have made me LOVE the gun.

Nice bruin

Dober

Phil / 458Win,

How's the availability of .375 Ruger ammunition off the shelf in Alaska? I've read and heard that the .375 Ruger is quite popular in Alaska.

.375 Ruger availability appears to be virtually non-existent in Africa. The tried and true H&H would be a priudent choice in that local.

Some PHs I know have a supply of the 375 Ruger ammo already, left by clients.

The 375 Ruger is quite popular up here and ammo doesn't seem to be a problem.
As for Africa, how many folks take Weatherbys, Lazzeronis, Dakotas or wildcats like the 416 Taylor or 475 Turnbull, or even the 45-70 and never give a thought to ammo availability?

Exactly!

I've never known anyone who had an ammo problem when they got to the safari camp. Lost guns seem to be more of a problem.

I find that 300 grain bullets loaded to 2500 or 2550 fps do not recoil objectionably in my Model 70, a relatively heavy rifle. My .300 Weatherby UltraLightweight, .458 Winchester, and 12 gauge with saboted slugs all are a lot worse in the felt recoil department.

The ones that hurt me the most were several 338 Wins and two 416s...one a 416 Rem in a Mdl 70 Safari, and the other a 416 Rigby in a CZ hog back 550.

I took the Ruger 375 to South Africa in 2008. Recoil is a little stout if you are hunched over it at a bench, but don't practice like that for Africa! When we were there, 95% of our shots were taken off of shooting sticks. When you are standing and firing, recoil is waaay less. I took 12 animals with it ranging from eland to impala and never once even noticed the recoil. Don't forget to practice off of shooting sticks though!

I kind of like that funny looking bolt handle on the original H&H in the picture. It kind of grows on you.

Have you shot that particular H&H and what do you think of it? Thanks.

Nice Bar! Great Photo!

Are you planning to shoot anything that requires 375 power? If PG only, many lighter cartridges recoil less and work very well - including shots on eland - with the right bullets.

This is the result of a shot at just under 200 yds. with a Nosler 180 grain partition from a 300 WSM.

Gee's Phil I do like your Airplane, I could be very happy spend what is left of my pilot career flying that puppy!!

+1 on that. Flying small aircraft is a lot more fun than flying large jets.

Speaking of recoil, it's all in you head. Didn't any of y'all ever play football when you were young? You got knocked around a whole lot worse than the butt end of a rifle. You can work up to heavier recoiling rifles. It really helps to shoot one that is a lot larger than the 375. Then when you go back to the smaller caliber you think it is a pussycat. It works the same way with temperature. Around here cold weather is 40 degrees. Don't laugh, you northerners. It was 110 degrees and 90% humidity this summer. Then it gets to 20 degrees and when it warms up to 40, it isn't cold anymore. I used to wear a Past recoil pad to shoot a 7mm mag off a bench. I don't wear it anymore and I shoot up to a 450 NE. If recoil bothers you, try shooting standing up.

Wildcat--I will be shooting plains game including kudu and gembok. I understand that a 30-06 or 300 mag can be used and I have several rifles in both of these calibers, I just wanted to get another gun because eventually I want to go back to Africa for eland and zebra plus have a rifle for a griz hunt (if my retirement fund ever recovers). Thanks and get it coming.

Bob

Well, we can always jump to the "every serious rifleman should have a 375 at least some time in his life" argument. How can you argue with that?

Yea, as a PP, I like Phil's plane too.

I took my 375 Ruger African to Namibia in 2010. 75 gr RL15 pushes a 235 tsx @ 3k fps, is very accurate, and a decisive killer of plains game. Recoil is not bad either. I added an additional crossbolt (sent no charge from Ruger) and shortened the stock 1/2" and added a full 1" red pachmayer decelerator. Topped w/ a 2x7 Kahles, it is, IMO the perfect PG rifle.

Wyoguide--first time I ever heard about the additional crossbolt from Ruger, did they recommend it? Who installed it and does it void the warranty if someone other than Ruger installed it? I wonder why Ruger doesn't just build them with the crossbolt in it? Thanks.

Bob

I had an additional cross bolt added too, the Pachmayer also, and the tang-action and barrel glass-bedded. Not only a good PG rifle but a good elk smoker too. Ruger got the rifle proportions correct, IMO, for this cartridge.

Bob - No, ruger didn't reccommend it. But after hearing of others splitting problems w/ the wood stocks, I decided to be proactive and add it before I ever shot it. Same w/ the 1" decelerator. I don't know about what it does to the warranty, actually never thought about it till you said something! A friend of mine w/ a milling machine bored the stock for me. My rifle came w/ medium height rings, and I wanted lows, so when I called ruger CS about exchanging, I asked if I could purchase a factory crossbolt, so it would match the other. The lady who helped me said no problem, she'd just include it w/ the ring she was sending, no charge..........

George - I agree on the proportions. When I decided I needed a 375, initially I wanted an H&H, but CZ's are too bulky for my taste in factory form. Model 70's were not readily available at that time, and for me, are a little on the thick side too. Once I got to reloading for the Ruger, I really started to like it. Easy to load for, not finicky at all. Now I want one in 9.3x62.............

Same road I traveled.

Just shot my LH Ruger 375 -10 F with loads up to 74 Gr RL 15 with the 270 gr TSX.

Also Shot a load with 81.5 Gr of Ramshot Big Game the Ram Shot load had noticeably less recoil?

Don,t care to shoot a lot in that temp.

In answer to the recoil issue, oner of the most important things is to not get hurt the first time. If you don't get hurt you probably won't develop any flinch. As has been stated shooting standing from sticks is good practice, but for sighting in , or hand loaders, having a "standing bench" is a real boon. Avoiding the crouching position at the usual sit down bench will usually keep shooting anything with recoil much more pleasant.

Or, just adjust the stool down to a lower position so that your upper body and especially your neck is vertical instead of leaning forward like most people do at the bench.

I use the .375 alaskan as my primary hunting rifle here in Mt. I also have a .416 Alaskan that I used this past fall for Cape Buffalo in Zimbabwe. The 375 is quite tolerable to shoot but there is a DEFINATE step up in recoil when you go to the .416. Not unbearable but it is very noticeable! Good Luck!

Speaking of the .375 Ruger, check out this posting I made on Big Bore Only.

DF

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...wkeye_375_Ruger_with_Leupold#Post6141696

I got one of the Ruger 375's when they first came out. Before I ever fired a shot through it I had a gunsmith fully bed the action/barrel, added an ebony forend tip and a better recoil pad. I have shot several plainsgame with it using my own handloads with Swift A-frames. I topped it off with a Zeiss 2-8 Conquest. The rifle has performed flawlessly and recoil is not bad at all.

No help with the recoil aspect, but check out the video I linked to in this post for an indication of its killing power:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6196624#Post6196624

Do you have any pictures of your rifle with the ebony forend tip added? Probably a nice touch.

Regarding the recoil pad, does anyone know if a medium Pachmayr Decelerator will fit? I had ordered one from Optics Planet, but got a little worried based on the metal reinforcement being 1.45" wide, and opted for the pre-fit Decelerator. Really had wanted the 1" red pad, though, and grind to fit is the only way to get it.

Looks like Ruger followed your customization . . and then some.

http://ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/models.html

Ebony tip, dual sling swivel locations, and muzzle brake. Not sure if cross-bolt was on earlier versions. Also noted on their site is the absence of the 416 Alaskan.

makes me wonder if i should just buy a 416 Ruger African or if i should still take my M1917 and make it a 404 Jeffery like i have been thinking...

The ebony forend tip is nice. Having the barrel band, and the swivel on the forend seems a schizo "oops", and that muzzle brake is just hideous. Kinda like taking Lucy Pinder, and putting a tattoo of Roseanne Barr's face on her belly.

Rattler-go 416 Rigby in the 17

Dober

Dober, that would be entirely to practical besides in all the books on African hunting on my shelves with the old gents that went out in the blue after ivory and maneaters the Rigby rarely gets mentioned.....thinking i need a 404 to go with the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer i have here that needs some TLC

I don't have anything but good things to say about my 375 Ruger. I have one of the first generation models with the swing stud on the stock and it never caused a problem for me.

I agree with the recoil being like a shotgun with slugs, not overbearing but not something I enjoy shooting off the bench.

I see that Ruger finally came out with the .416 in the African model. Too bad they had to put a muzzle brake on it but looking at the specs it seems it is removable. The PHs thank Ruger for that!

OP - you've said a couple of times you want to eventually take eland and zebra, hence the .375 Ruger. But you don't need anywhere near that much cartridge to down those animals. Your .300 mag. will be fine for that.

since when did "need" ever rule the roost with rifle calibers?