I will soon leave for the RSA to hunt kudu and zebra. Question: will 180 grain Power Point factory loads out of a 30-06 hold together well enough? Thanks...

I bet they will work, but I would opt for a tougher bullet if I were making the trip to Africa. JMHO

My bet is they would hold together, but penetration might be lacking.

When I went on a month-long cull hunt in South Africa in 2007, one of my hunting partners brought a .325 WSM with the 220-grain Power Pont factory load. His PH eventually told him to put it away and use his .375 with Trophy Bondeds instead. The 220's held together but expanded VERY widely, to the point where one didn't make it all the way to the far side of a zebra. If I recall correctly, it barely made into the far lung, and they had to chase the zebra around for a while.

ok. Thanks for the input...

Ive come to the conclusion that the small part of the expense of the hunt is the bullet. Thinking along those lines, the cost of a dozen(one shot kills) Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, Swift, Trophy bonded , good premium bullets wont even cover the cost of parking at the airport. True poor economy if you only loose one animal-remember if it bleeds you bought it. Not to mention needless suffering.

Power Points are way too soft a bullet for Zebra. A-Frames, TSX, Trophy Bonded or any other "premium" bullet is what you need. Zebras are tough animals. In an '06, I would prefer a monometal or bonded bullets. I would not use a Partition, either.

"the small part of the expense of the hunt is the bullet"

no doubt!

In a nutshell the above saves you a whole night of worrying if you will retrieve the animal or not. Save on taxidermy by going with European mounts, but NEVER try and save cost on ammunition.

I don't hear that very often. When I do it usually comes from a mono/copper fan.

I've done a lot of testing of various bullets, both in game and various kinds of media, and it's very difficult to find a .30 caliber bullet that will out-penetrate the 200-grain Nosler Partition.

In a typical .30-06 it's easy to get at least 2600 fps from the 200, and some rifles will get around 2700. At that sort of muzzle velocity it works great for the typical larger plains game such as zebra, kudu and blue wildebeest, and shoots flatter than most people would believe.

The 200-grain Winchester Power Point was my absolute bullet of choice in my .338-'06 for many, many years. The 200 PP at 2,750fos just simply worked perfectly on elk, large black bear and all sorts of large game.

Typically, the recovered bullets opened to .750" to .850" and weight of the recovered bullets typically ran 190-grains or so.

The largest animal I shot with the 200PP was an Oregon black bear that I killed up the Middle Fork of the John Day River. His hide squared 7-feet, 6-inches and the carcass weighed 392-pounds hanging.

Having killed almost 60 head of Afrikan plains game with the .30-'06 and 180-grain bullets, I have a fair idea of what the comvination will do. The 180-grain Power Point is simply one of the finest big game bullets every made.

I would trust the 180 Power Point for up to and including adult/mature eland bulls. Yep, I've killed them with the 180 in the .30-'06, too.

Zebra???? Absolutely NO SWEAT!!!!

God Bless,

Steve

I'm with Mule Deer. Maybe not quite as tough as an A frame, but a great bullet still!

In my tests in various kinds of media, and my hunting, Partitions have penetrated as deeply as A-Frames of rthe same size, and often deeper, despite not retaining as much weight. This is because they don't end up with as wide a mushroom, and the rear end doesn't ball up like it often does on A-Frames when they hit bone.

There also ain't any flies on the 180 Partition from the .30-06 on plains game. I've taken a bunch with it, including a Rowland Ward springbok and a good Cape kudu that required the second-longest shot I've attempted in Africa, close to 400 yards. (The longest was made with a .22-250, on another springbok, but that's another story.)

There's a real good article at www.guns.com/do-copper-offer-the-same-performance-to-hunters etc.

This article had a test ran, shooting 150gr core-lokt bullet, in the 308, against at 110 and 130gr Ttsx in the same round. Ttsx penetrated deeper, and actually had a bigger wound channel ballistic testing material. Lot of good info to consider, even if you don't decide on the Ttsx bullets.

I borrowed my PH's .30-06 with 220 grain soft points for my kudu and the combo worked great.

I've shot several Kudu and Zebra with the 225 Gr. Nosler Partition out of my 338 Win. Mag. Everything was either DRT or dropped within a few yards. You'll be well served with the partition, it's been killing game for many years.

Springbok and Kudu are "soft" animals. I would expect a .30/06 to deal with either, even with a relatively 'soft" bullet.

I simply don't like Partitions for anything but cats and the smaller species of plains game. They are, for instance, a good leopard bullet. But so is a Core-Lokt. For larger animals, you can do better when selecting a bullet.

Partitions are also made in .375 caliber. If you think they're such a great bullet, try shooting a Cape Buff with one (if your PH will let you). Better to check the expiry date on your Global Rescue membership before you try that, though. Just in case the bullet fails and you have to dig him out of the bush.

Mule Deer, how many Cape Buff have you dropped with a Partition? Inquiring minds want to know!

Most I've taken, along with water buffalo. And I've seen my companions shoot a few more, no problems, and have yet to run into a PH who doesn't like them for buffalo. A PH who's my best friend in Africa (and has been doing it for decades, along with control shooting before that) has killed hundreds of buffalo with Partitions, down to 180-grain .30's, and thinks its one of the best softpoint designs. But apparently you have more experience with Partitions on buffalo than all of us combined.

And now, because the sum of your posts indicates you know everything about hunting and shooting, despite having only been on guided hunts in Africa, I'm putting you on ignore.

Tipped bullets make me nervous. I bought three (3) boxes of Federal Trophy Bonded Tipped in .300 Winchester magnum for T&E and the tips fell off more than half the time when cycling the bolt hard whilst shooting off the sticks. The now disembodied plastic tips made their way into the bolt raceway and the magazine elevator, thoroughly tying up the rifle. Not acceptable!!! Fortunately, this was at the range.

Anybody want to buy the two remaining unopened boxes of .300 Win mag 180 grain Federal trophy bonded tips? No warranty, though.

Perhaps the TTSX bullet doesn't do that. In my limited testing, Vortex TTSX factory loads in .300 and .338 winchester have had no failures and have provided match grade accuracy. Still, I prefer the TSX simply because it has no tip to fall off and does it's job admirably without one.

You are a a real gasbag, mule deer. Your posts are just as much BS as are your articles. How many Cape Buff have you actually, personally killed? Not Water Buffalo, but Cape Buffalo personally? How many free range Lions have you killed? Ever taken a Rhino? How many Elephant have you PERSONALLY shot? I'm not talking about being there when someone has killed one, but I mean personally?

Have you taken the Big Five yet? Why not? Just grow some b-lls and do it! Maybe then you will have some credibility with people who have. Until then, you have absolutely no credibility regarding DG.

If you are such a hotshot, why haven't you actually gone out and taken the Big Five under free range conditions instead of just giving advice about what you've never done?

Boddington is a real hunter who opines on things he has actually done, multiple times. You sit at a computer and pretend to be the real deal, when it is obvious you are nothing but a gasbag.

I invite your reply so you can enlighten us with your personal African Dangerous Game experience.

Dear WM70,

Damn, I didn't get to the ignore button fast enough.

You got me, I've never even seen a Cape buffalo. So since I came clean, how about you tell all of us exactly how many buffalo you've shot with Nosler Partitions and exactly how the bullets failed. If only personal experience counts, then please provide it.

Better yet, please provide all the failures you've experienced with Nosler Partitions on zebra, or other similar-sized plains game, since that was the original point of this thread.

Wow. Just Wow...


We have logcutter to turn to when we need a know-it-all on elk, and we have Maverick 940 to cover everything else but Africa...

Now we have you.....

Win,
I'd like to recommend some reading for you. Start with �HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE.� (by Dale Carnegie).

PS - I sometimes give Ingwe a tough time about his caliber choices, but he reads people quite well.

John,
I think I will ignore that guy myself. Your counsel has been more than good over the years....

Thanks, Gary. Good luck on your safari!

mule deer:

I have never used Partitions on Cape Buff because I value my hide too much to do so. I have used A-Frames, Trophy Bonded and Barnes bullets on them, however. I recommend the A-Frame and Barnes (both TSX and solid) for the job. I do not recommend the .416 Trophy Bonded solid as the bullet we dug out of a buff I shot badly riveted, bent and fish tailed. This is from my personal experience.

Since you admit you have never even SEEN a Cape Buff, why don't you go on safari and actually shoot a Cape Buff with your beloved Partition and let us know how it works out? There is still time for you to book a late season hunt. Then you can speak from personal experience instead of babbling on about something you've never done. You appear to base your posts in this area on second hand information, hearsay and sea stories. Authors should be authoritative. This means doing it yourself and then writing about it. Again, I refer you to Craig Boddington who has been there and personally done what he writes about. Craig has a basis for his opinions because he has actually "seen the elephant". If Craig opines what kind of a scope is recommended for sitting in a leopard blind, it is because he has sat in such a blind many times and understands what is required of the scope. Can you speak on that topic from personal experience?

As to "Doctari" Robertson, Kevin is both a veterinarian and fully licensed Zim PH. It takes about four years of study and bush experience, plus written and practical exams to become a Zim PH. He has hunted numerous Cape Buff, as well as other members of the Big Five and he has incorporated his veterinary training and PH experience into his writings. Again, he has been there and done that. When you put him down, compare that to YOUR personal experience in this area, it is almost laughable.

And your PERSONAL experience in taking elephant, lion, rhino and leopard is...? My guess is that it amounts to zilch, zero and none.

I don't have any experience with Partitions on Zebra, etceteras because I don't (and won't) use them for those species. Safaris and trophy fees are too expensive to potentially lose an animal due to poor bullet choice.

I am bringing Partitions on my upcoming leopard hunt because as I've said, I believe that they will perform well on lightly constructed animals such as leopard and impalas shot for bait. I will write about their performance when I return. But my writing will be based on my personal experience, not on sea stories.

BTW, this will be my third leopard hunt. How many leopard hunts have you been on where you were the actual hunter? Pray, please tell us!

Man I thought we had cleaned up the African Forum after we got rid of that idiot MoccassinJoe...

Anyhow, on ol' Doktari Robinson, loved his book and DVD, but sadly he's stuck on fifty year old ballistics and theories of "big and slow" and ANYBODY, ANYBODY that still recommends solids for buffalo, well, from then on I take everything with a grain of salt.
I've never used Partitions on Cape Buffalo, but my understanding is they've move the Partition significantly forward, enhancing penetration. Full disclosure in they would not be my bullet of choice for buffalo, but I would have no qualms about using them.

I was right about one thing, and maybe wrong about another.

Right: Yep. You ARE a douche.

Wrong:( maybe) I sure thought that was a Cape Buffalo European mount JOB has in his living room, and I sure thought Id seen pics and articles of JB with Buffalo he had killed...


Oh, well...I sure nailed the first one at least.

notice; no obligatory smiley...

but I do have this for you...

I'm pretty sure he saw this one.....

Ingwe:

By John's admission, he has never even seen a cape buff. So if there is a mount in his living room, he was not the hunter that killed it. Or it is not a cape buff. Ask him.

Jeez Louise, do you ever need to get over yourself!

This sure looks like Jon....and that sure looks like yet another Cape Buffalo...

Though I could be wrong again...




Now do us all a favor and crawl back under your rock...

Naw, that isn't me, and neither is the other photo posted by aheider. They're my stunt double, a guy named Buzz Lightyear. Most gun writers hire stunt doubles to do all their writing and shooting, so the writer can stay home and crank out articles and books. The stunt doubles report on bullet performance, accuracy, scopes, etc. It's a good system, resulting in millions of dollars each year.

Buzz shot the bull in the photo Ingwe posted in Botswana's Okavango Delta about a decade ago, and he says it was one of the first Cape buffalo shot with Nosler's then-new 400-grain .416 Partition. He used a .416 Rigby, and put the bullet into the very rear of the ribcage on the left side at range of 60-70 yards. The bull went about 25 yards before falling, and the bullet was found under the skin of its right shoulder, retaining 83% of its weight, the lighter of the two .416 Partitions Buzz has recovered over the years. (The other, from a water buffalo, retained 95% of its weight.) Oh, and Buzz says he saw around 1000 buffalo in one herd that day! I kinda hope to see something like that someday, but am too busy writing articles and books.

Buzz took the buffalo in the other photo last September in the Selous Game Reserve in Tanzania, also with the .416 Rigby and a 400-grain Partition. The range was about 30-35 yards in thick cover along a dry stream, and Buzz put the bullet in the shoulder, just behind the bones, about a third of the way up the chest. The bull turned and ran with three companions, but the bullet exited the far shoulder, leaving a good blood trail, and Buzz and his PH found the bull very soon, standing but not moving, and Buzz paid the insurance with a couple of solids.

Buzz has provided many excellent reports on bullet performance over the years, including over 100 others on Nosler Partitions shot into big game including elk, moose, caribou, red stag, black bears, and a bunch of African plains game including a very nice eland taken in Namibia, the lucky dog. In fact, on the Tanzanian safari he used 286-grain Nosler Partitions from a 9.3x62 to take several head of plains game. The only one recovered was from a 30" blue wildebeest that was quartering toward him at about 200 yards. The bullet broke the big shoulder joint and was found under the hide at the rear of the ribcage on the opposite side, retaining 74% of its weight. Another was put into the shoulder joint of a zebra at about 80 yards. The bullet exited the middle of the ribs on the other side, then bounced off a rain tree beyond the zebra. Buzz saw the leaves shake when the bullet hit!

But those are all second-hand reports, so don't really count.

So Mr. Douchebag (aka Winchestermodel 70) am I a failure for killing a Hartman's Zebra with my lowly .30-06 and a 180 grain partition, or is my wife a failure for killing hers with a 150 grain partition in her .270 win? Both one shot kills. If we are failures then please explain how a Zebra rug is now proudly on display in my home?

John,

I'll be devastated if you reveal that Buzz Lightyear also developed the B-29.

Steve

I can personally vouch for John's stories because on one of the few occasions when he came out from behind the typewriter, he went on a safari to Namibia with me. And he never saw or shot a Cape Buffalo on that one.....my stunt double, a fellow named Brad pitt killed them all....

Had some real sucky performance with 180 Nosler partitions though....they just killed stuff dead and we didn't have to track it or nuthhin'...didn't learn a thing...

Craggy-looking old bastid...

Nice buffalo though.

John

Buzz Lightyear will get you for that.....

Yep, old Buzz is getting along in years!

Dayum! The Montana Mafia are ganging up on the poor ol' Swede!

John

Yeah, you better watch out. Buzz is an international traveler and just might show up there someday! He may be grizzled but he can still shoot pretty well....

I heard Buzz likes good Irish whiskey.

He prefers good Irish whisky, but will drink about any kind if that's not available!

I will vouch for that too....

I'll buy ya a cask of this if I can be your next Buzz!

Thanks for the very generous offer! That would be a lot better than Buzz drinking my whisky every time he shows up around here.

Well, Old Buzz actually shot a DG animal. Can Buzz also please post his pics of the elephants.lions, leopards and rhinos he's taken as well?

Do have the same level of interpersonal skill face-to-face as your internet persona would indicate? Just curious.

So, model 70......are you lacking somewhere anatomically speaking, or are you just an obnoxious ass by nature? Douchbags like you who've become more prevalent on this forum, along with the extreme left/right wing nut jobs, are precisely why I rarely visit here anymore, let alone, participate.

It used to be, azzholes like you could only annoy folks in their local area. Now, technology has made it possible for your kind to annoy the entire world. It's a shame.

Jeff

Larry Root must have not given DoucheModel70 a courtesy kiss last time he kicked him out of bed for eating crakcers in it.

DoucheModel70..... GFY

It takes a rude douche bag like you to make a Model 70 look bad.

I am wondering how many zebra you tried to kill with a Nosler Partition bullet to come to the conclusion you seem to have taken?

Fend them off with lutefisk! (Don't let them near the potato bologna.)

Come on now gents, I take offence on behalf of lutefisk everywhere.

I will gladly stand Buzz and even John to a plate of lutefisk prepared with love and a glass of Aquavite. John I wish I was a fly on the wall anytime you and Buzz are together.

Randy

I'll gladly accept the aquavit but pass on the lutefisk--and I've tried both, more than once! Do really like the various ways Norwegians prepare salmon, after tasting several variations in Oslo, Bergen and Stavanger.

Buzz has some really interesting opinions, especially after sampling a little Irish whisky or aquavit.

John,

Have you or Buzz ever tried any Clontarf Irish whisky? I discovered it a few years ago.

No, we haven't! I can't even remember seeing a bottle, and Eileen and I spent some time in three parts of Ireland five years ago.

Of the Irish whiskies we've tried, we both like Midleton the best, but Buzz thinks all Irish whisky is above average.

If I ever get back to Montana, I promise to bring you a bottle!

That would be great!

But only on the condition that we cook a game meal for you, se we can share in the bounty of both Ireland and Montana.

+1

What a pathetic post,as are the others made by this guy. I wonder what feeling of inadequacy and jealousy motivates anyone to attack another poster on "the Fire" in this way, it certainly does not contribute to this fine community.

There is far too much of this kind of infantile and offensive behaviour here and those who indulge in it actually reveal far more about their own lack of real outdoorsmanship than is the case with the objects of their ignorant rants.

Very simply, John is one of my all-time favourite writers on guns and hunting BECAUSE he does NOT bullshit, is not self-aggrandizing and is humble, friendly and just a regular guy when one asks him questions by PMs. His wife, Eileen, is also a very capable writer and I recently had the pleasure of speaking with her by phone and bought one of her outstanding cook books.

So, "70", I suggest that you kindly STFU, you bore most here with your stupid nattering!

"So, "70", I suggest that you kindly STFU, you bore most here with your stupid nattering!"

I could not have said this better...John you are a good man and a good writer...and I thank you for what I have learned from your articles and books.
And thank you for helping this fool make a fool of himself!

A+

If more of us would punch the "IGNORE" button on these clowns, this site would once again begin to resemble the site it once was...

Have you fine folks gotten around to Redbreast 15 yr. old? You may find a new favorite Irish. My whiskey friends and I did.

I had some Redbreast in a pub in Ireland. It was good stuff, but not as good as Midleton so may not have been the 15-year-old.