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There is a show driving hard to the hoop for me to do this with them. They require a fair bit of support I'm not convinced is financially practical yet.

However, if the marketing is there I would probably do it. So if you watched a hunting show would it sway you towards booking with that outfit or have no bearing on the decision?

Guess I always figured my references were the best resource I have. But this might be another path to bookings?
It would have no effect on me at all. Perhaps someone who was very impulsive and had never thought about going to Africa before sitting down to see the show might go with the outfitter featured in the show, but how many people are like that?
I think it would be good business sense to try it. You would hopefully be seen by thousands (millions?) of potential customers. Sometimes you have to explore new avenues.
Have to admit some shows have made me go look the outfitter up on the net. However, have yet to follow through and I would put more faith on a recommendation from someone here on the fire that speaks well of the outfit.
it might encourage me to want to go, but honestly, don't think it'd sway me much as to which outfit I went with. I'm kind of a suspicious person when it comes to celebrities and promotions. I'd figure that the celebrity would get special treatment that I might not.
With that said, the only hunting shows I actually enjoy are africa shows. I hate and will not watch any whitetail shows and many of the other North American game hunting shows. Too many, if not nearly all, seem like set-ups.

edit: because I can't spell worth a crap. "nerely" what is that?
JJ,

It would not sway me one bit. Because of said support that the infomercials require, I have always felt that the average guy does not get the same treatment.

Also due to all the support, editing and producing, the show is not a true representation of actual hunting experience.

Also IMO, good honest outfitters/guides do not need any advertising other than getting the word out. Word of mouth is best and references rule the day.
Would have no effect on me. I depend on references and agents I trust.
Marketing is such a peculiar animal. When what we are doing leaves us wanting something more we wander into areas we are not familar with. We don't mind spending money for our business but we want to make sure we get our money's worth. In this case you have someone that their job is to sell you on their ability to bring you customers. Their motivation is to get a hunt and keep their viewers interested so they can keep their advertisers contributing. In this case you are the advertiser supporting their show. What I would do I ask for references of other outfitters they have hunted so you can ask them if it was worth it for them. Ask would they do it again? Ask how their business was represented? You also want ask these outfitters if they offer a unique hunt that might be why they might have had a positive or negative experience.
You supply references to sell hunts and if they won't do this I would walk away and not look back.
The unknown is not always bad just use the known tequniques you are familar with to work through to find a comfort spot.
I/we went with Huntersgame safaris that was on Northwest Hunter in 2008. I contacted Huntersgame and asked for references. I contacted four of the five references at the time. We have been twice now and plan a third trip. MTG
These shows, like the Internet, can be a double edged sword.

When I was researching countries/outfitters for my frst safari I watched a couple of episodes of Dangerous Game when Zayne van der Merwe was the PH. Watching the show did not convince me to use ACST and Zayne but it started my due diligence of ACST. Reading the forums, hunting reports, and going to SCI to meet Adam and Zayne convinced me to book. I do not rely to much on references given by the outfitter or agent. It is not like they will give a contact that had a bad hunt.

On the other side there are several shows after watching them I would never hunt with the outfitter or PH. The essence of hunting is difficult to capture on film however the demeanor of the PHs, the backlapping and high 5s, some of the ethics, and even legalities are questionable.
Not much.

Any that does not put the outfitter, PH, camp and support staff in the best light imaginable can be easily edited out during production.

I much prefer glowing referrals from people I trust.

Allen
I've seen obviously drugged male lions arrowed on these hunting shows, so they don't mean much to me.
Originally Posted by Mike70560

The essence of hunting is difficult to capture on film however the demeanor of the PHs, the backlapping and high 5s, some of the ethics, and even legalities are questionable.
agreed, I am not a "touchdown dancer" after a kill. I am more reserved externally. I don't need the "mackdaddy" of anything on the market either, nor do I ever feel the need to say "That's what I'm talkin' 'bout" after a kill. Some of the tv expressions are ridiculous.

Originally Posted by JGRaider
I've seen obviously drugged male lions arrowed on these hunting shows, so they don't mean much to me.


I fully believe I saw a lion heroine addict get shot with a bow/arrow by that hunter that sings "you ain't seen crazy yet."
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. But I see a lot of drug addicts in the pharmacy and that lion looked looped and he let them walk up to 25 yards while just sitting there?
JJ,

Not sure if a TV video would create a positive reaction causing me to book, but I've experienced a lot of negative reactions to various shows and some of that may just be the antics of the hunters....i.e. "end zone celebrations".

A friend that owns a fishing lodge got involved with a fishing program still on TV. I smelled a rat and told my friend and he immediately called our Private Investigator friend and he confirmed my suspicion with in hours......please perform due diligence as in all business proceedings.
Originally Posted by rphguy
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I've seen obviously drugged male lions arrowed on these hunting shows, so they don't mean much to me.


I fully believe I saw a lion heroine addict get shot with a bow/arrow by that hunter that sings "you ain't seen crazy yet."
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. But I see a lot of drug addicts in the pharmacy and that lion looked looped and he let them walk up to 25 yards while just sitting there?


That's probably one I'm referring to.....Andy Ross of Maximum Archery. Saw it just yesterday. Pathetic.
Not at all.
Thanks for sharing your insights. This is a "big show" not some home made deal. However I have always depended upon references.

That has been the best single way to generate business. The story from an unrelated third party with nothing to gain has significant credibility.

So, I will cautiously move on with this and not buy into the need to cover excessive demands and expense. If they want to do this it will have to be a more mutual agreement. I do think marketing is without any question the most powerful business on earth. Marketing controls people's thoughts and can convince otherwise intelligent people to make horribly bad decisions. Marketing runs the world not Wall Street.

Look who's running America
Sorry but not at all. Got my PH picked out for S.A. this spring,
next year in Namibia is picked and most likely that will be it for me. Might do a do over with one of them but ......
Originally Posted by JJHACK
There is a show driving hard to the hoop for me to do this with them. They require a fair bit of support I'm not convinced is financially practical yet.

However, if the marketing is there I would probably do it. So if you watched a hunting show would it sway you towards booking with that outfit or have no bearing on the decision?

Guess I always figured my references were the best resource I have. But this might be another path to bookings?


Are their initials Jim Burnworth?
JJ,

10 years ago, I decided to book a mule deer hunt, based upon a regular show on an outdoor channel featuring a Colorado outfitter and numerous 'celebrity' hunters, like Babe Winkleman, etc. etc.

A month before the hunt was to take place, the guy announced that he was out of business, and would not honor any of his bookings, nor refund any of the deposits he had taken. He screwed dozens of hunters out of many thousands of dollars, and was never held accountable. He's still in business, running a guide school.

I know that would never happen with you- but the experience soured me from EVER again booking a hunt based upon something I saw on TV.

I also find it disgusting when a guy shoots something on one of these shows, then spends 5 minutes thanking TC, Remington, Winchester, Muzzy, Mathews, the outfitter, Jesus, Cabelas, etc. etc. etc.

That said, I think these shows generally have entertainment value only. As far as bookings go, I am much more inclined to attend sport shows, research outfitters on the internet, read hunter reviews, or do repeat bookings with a reputable outfitter I have come to know and trust.
Originally Posted by Chipolopolo


Are their initials Jim Burnworth?


That's the other clown who passes off shooting drugged lions with a bow as real hunting.
Save your money Hack. I have yet to call a show sponsor or make an inquiry. I won't even watch ANY of the North American shows, and have quit watching most of the African shows. I think your best bet for advertising would be to attend some of the larger hunting expos. Harrisburg, Pa. comes to mind.
We have been there three years in a row now.
Are you going to be at SCI Reno? If you are would love to talk to you.
Originally Posted by Bighorn
JJ,

10 years ago, I decided to book a mule deer hunt, based upon a regular show on an outdoor channel featuring a Colorado outfitter and numerous 'celebrity' hunters, like Babe Winkleman, etc. etc.

A month before the hunt was to take place, the guy announced that he was out of business, and would not honor any of his bookings, nor refund any of the deposits he had taken. He screwed dozens of hunters out of many thousands of dollars, and was never held accountable. He's still in business, running a guide school.

I know that would never happen with you- but the experience soured me from EVER again booking a hunt based upon something I saw on TV.

I also find it disgusting when a guy shoots something on one of these shows, then spends 5 minutes thanking TC, Remington, Winchester, Muzzy, Mathews, the outfitter, Jesus, Cabelas, etc. etc. etc.

That said, I think these shows generally have entertainment value only. As far as bookings go, I am much more inclined to attend sport shows, research outfitters on the internet, read hunter reviews, or do repeat bookings with a reputable outfitter I have come to know and trust.

I don't mind them thanking Jesus, afterall Jesus hung around with commercial fisherman and was an amateur fisherman Himself. Even caught a fish with a coin in its mouth to pay His taxes.
Well, right there's my mistake!
Been looking for places where money grows on trees, when I should have been fishing for fish with taxpayer money in their mouths.

Oh, wait- that's what the TV fishermen are already doing...... laugh
It would influence me. I�d never book with them and would wish to stay as far away from them as possible. I do not watch hunt shows and feel they cheapen the experience. IMO it is a private affair.
If an individual was prone to any certain buffoonery or other behavior that could be displayed as unflattering they would be wise to maintain final editorial control; otherwise such exposure could do more harm than good. Merry Christmas.
I just assume the outfitter is too expensive for me.
I dunno, maybe if you could catch a black mamba with your bare hands that's be pretty cool. And do some of those "oops we almost got trampled by a cape buffalo" clips. Then top it off with a spear hunt for a drugged male lion.

I think the "you ain't seen addicted yet" guy is gonna have this stuff on next week, though, so you'd have to think up something to top it.

aja, I'm kidding around. I think it could be good if you laid some ground rules about how you are presented and that you have some control over the final edit or something, or at least a say.
JJ - what you've got here is a group of people who prefer the internet to get their information, rather than television shows.

I fall solidly into the internet/computer group, and have a general distrust of TV shows - hunting, fishing or otherwise.

With this forum, it's pretty easy for a guy to share a PM or two with an outfitter/guide he may be considering - then a follow up phone call or two is also easy. I dunno - to me this makes more sense than the television show, but I could be wrong. A marketing guru I'm not.

Best of luck in this year and future years! Guy
If your should make a video, you have to promise that you won't sing in order to fill time slot........I'm down to watching Roger Raglin play piano.
Originally Posted by JJHACK
There is a show driving hard to the hoop for me to do this with them. They require a fair bit of support I'm not convinced is financially practical yet.

However, if the marketing is there I would probably do it. So if you watched a hunting show would it sway you towards booking with that outfit or have no bearing on the decision?

Guess I always figured my references were the best resource I have. But this might be another path to bookings?


Dedicated checkbook hunters are not swayed by any advertising. They go with recommendation from known aquaintences such as other hunting club members and preferably personal friends. Busy professional people don't watch these shows and serious amateurs tire of them very quickly.

Like the masses, I was intrigued in the late 80's/early 90's when these shows first appeared (usually in Video tape format) as there was simply nothing like them and they gave you exposure to animals of interest. Most of the hosts and hunters featured these days are laughable fools with nothing to offer the technically minded, nor anything whatsoever in hunting skills.

You will likely be used for a free hunt to make the hunter look a hero.

John

PS: I saw a show for a couple of minutes last night where the so called hunter shot a mule deer from the back of a truck in Sonora. I turned the TV off.
Originally Posted by CharlesL
I just assume the outfitter is too expensive for me.


Ditto. Aside from good, solid, 'been there, done that' references, and all other things being equal, my checkbook will significantly influence my decision on an African outfitter.
For me, If I were the guy, GIVING the hunt away, I would absolutely maintain final editorial control. Problem is once the "actor" begins editing, he has forgotten all about his promise and will edit biased results based on his shameless, self promotion.

I, like many previous posters have mentioned, won't or can't watch most TV hunting. Shockey is probably the only one I really like to watch.

As far as show go, I used to be on the BOD of the PHX chapter of SCI. We did the ISE show in Phoenix every year as a membership drive. During the good years there was fantastic attendance. However even during those times the 6-7 African outfitters there rarely booked hunters. I would agree the shows that garner results are DSC, SCI Reno and Harrisburg.
Merry Christmas Jim,

IMHO you would get better mileage from revising & updating your book and use that as the introduction to hunters, especially new safari addicts. Word of mouth advertising and the book to cement your credentials will be the best advertising.

Edwin
Hmmmm. I would have to know more to comment. It wouldn't sway me but advertising is advertising. One thing is for sure. I would watch it.
Part of marketing is name recognition. When I think about hunting in Africa, the first name that comes to mind is Rann Safaris. It is because of their exposure on hunting shows.

I don't know what percentage of hunters who go to Africa are first timers, but name recognition is probably more important to them.
I've been associated with outfitters who had TV shows made of their operation, and it usually helped bookings. Of course, a lot depends on the quality of the TV show, the animals taken, and how much "free' stuff the outfitter had to throw in.

But as doubeltap points out, part of marketing is name recognition. If an ourfitter's name gets out in public enough, it affects bookings, usually positively.

Once a Texas newspaper columnist ripped a state politician upside-down and sideways in her column. The next time the polician saw her, he smiled widely, held out his arms, and said, "Honey, thanks for mentioning my name!"
smile

I was taking a marketing class at the time Hugh Grant was caught getting a hummer from a prostitute in his car. My marketing professor said that it would hurt his career and she would never watch another of his movies.

The publicity of his arrest actually helped his career. My professor wasn't as smart as she thought she was.
For me, it would really depend on the show. Any publicity is generally good but I would sure want to make sure I was associating with a positive person in the industry.
Absolutely no effect. The only money made from me would be incidental to the advertising done. I simply view hunting shows with gratitude for the viewing.

2 cents
Nope.
I think the best form of publicity might be to post on this site and AR. If I wanted to hunt in RSA for the first time, I would contact JJ Hack because of this site. I'm not sure what percentage of the target market reads posts but I read a lot about posters who either hunt with JJ or recommend him to others.

I don't watch any hunting shows. They don't show many of them here and the ones they do show seem to be combinations of killing tame whitetails and hillbilly music. Also with too many commercials for ticky tack stuff.
�I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right.�

P.T. Barnum

Take it from old Phineas and go for it...just don't let it cost you too much.
When deciding on an African hunt 2 years ago, I got the inclination from watching a TV show. However I didn't look up the outfitter and started to search the internet. That's how I stumbled upon you and after all my research, talking to you on the phone and references I decided to sign up. And I can't wait until the end of May.

I have started to look at a hunt in 2014 for whitetail deer. Just the other night, I saw a good show, that peaked my interest. They didn't kill a monster deer but a very nice representative of the species. I did some internet research and couldn't find that much.

I called and talked to the outfitter. Found out he's a very small operation, runs only 12 guys a year on the rifle hunts, has been hunting the ranch (he has sole hunting rights for) for over 25 years. He didn't oversell the hunt and seemed very up front on what he has to offer.

Too good to be true?? Maybe but I'll be checking some references. He says a 140"-160" is what they aim for and can usually find it. So in this instance a TV show may just get this guy a hunt from me. Still too early to tell but it's an option that needs more research.

If it's a reputable show I don't see how it could hurt. More than likely folks will see your name and then do some research on the internet. There your great reviews will sell the hunt if they are serious.

Just my 2 cents. Hope you will be at SCI in Reno.
No bearing. I do my own research.
Rarely watch any hunting shows.When I hunted Africa there really were none particularly. And actually very few video tapes,in fact the first I ever saw was at a PH firends home in Zimbabwe. My first safari of the 8 I made was selected by reading ads in a borrowed Safari Club magazine. I picked 5 ads and wrote them and then called them and finally made my selection based on trophy mix and cost. Actually picked one of Tony da Costa's package hunts for Leopard in Zimbabwe. At $5000 for 14days for a Leopard,Kudu,Impala,Duiker,Klipspringer it seemed a good deal and truley was. It hooked me for 7 more longer and longer safaris to Zimbabwe in the ensuing years.Ended up hunting all of them with the same outfitter who became a close personal friend. I came to have less and less respect for Tony as the years passed. After the first 2 all my safaris were booked directly. Should I have to selsct one today i would quite probably do it the same way. I do occaisonally watch one of the dangerous game TV shows. Some I enjoy some I don't.
Do you mean the infomercials on the sportsman's channel? Friggin bunch of product whores is all they are. I haven't seen a decent hunting show since ESPN quit playing them. Now a days if you don't have a hot piece of tail on there and like to pimp someone else's chit during the part when your supposed to be hunting it isn't a show. What happened to having a show and then having commercial breaks for the advertising, now it seems like the whole show is an advertisement.
I'd prefer to get to talk to someone live and in person. I have watched Michael Waddell on TV and I guarantee I would not hunt with them bozo's. On the other hand I met Steve... "Steves Outdoor Adventures" I could pass on him too. Will Primos, I've met him and would hang out with him in a heart beat. I'm going to Africa in 2014 with a guy I've met, he's donated to our conservation organzation several times, I know people who have hunted with him and loved it, That's who I am going with. If it were just the internet, and I hadn't met anybody, I'd probably go with you. THe guy I'm going with has been on a few shows, but I've never seen them, just had people ask me if I'd seen the show because they knew he'd donated hunts to our event. To me going to some of the big shows, SCI or show up at some of the bigger conservation organization fund raisers (I did DU and had over 800 people there) our live auctions raised some major money. Getting to know people that way gives people the confidence that they can "pull the trigger". Good luck.
correction, re: JJHACK: I would suggest you do a LOT of research on how the productions are funded, and by whom. It will have absolute bearing on if the show or shows are productive, or even completed, for that matter.

I would suggest that until the shows are aired, if they get to that point, that you maintain professional distance from them until you see IF they are well done. (well done, meaning something you are comfortable working with them on more series)

If they are well done, well funded and professionally aired, and you ultimately are comfortable joining forces with them on a further basis, great. If not, cut your losses and run and let the world know as politely and professionally as you can, that you were merely testing the situation and studying it as a possibility of doing more shows. No matter what happens, I would not get in a "throwing sour grapes" debate and I would encourage you to rise above it and simply continue your professional life as it was before the productions.

I would also be interested in "what's in this for me" right up front, what promises are they making and get it in writing with witnesses signatures and dates... There is nothing wrong with being upfront and honest with them that there will need to be compensation for your time, because those shows are not quickly produced and you will spend a considerable amount of your time doing them. I would encourage you to set those compensations with benchmarks as you go along and watch to see that they are met and done without pain and effort and definitely without you having to ask for them.

If the first few financial benchmarks go smoothly, wonderful, that will be a good sign...but I would keep that aspect of your relationship in the corner of your eye and if it becomes troubled, it will be a very real sign that the productions may not get to air. I don't have to tell you what that will do for your integrity and/or reputation...because the lodges and sponsors will associate you very closely with the series, and if there is egg on the face from the beginning, it could affect you all the way through.

A series is a great tool to make wonderful and strong relationships with the sponsors, who may well come to you later and offer you external work promoting their products, and THAT will be your ticket to the financial cream...and there is nothing wrong with making good money so that you can promote yourself further, if the series doesn't go forward or if it closes after the first few airings.

Relationships with sponsors (ie, in theory: Weatherby, Filson, Columbia, etc) are a wonderful way for you to feather your financial nest and will take very little time and will offer wonderful cash rewards. They also will in turn, promote your image in a professional and positive manner, showing potential clients that you are a man of your word. If an advertising client wants to tie its name to your wagon, its a good sign, because they do THEIR due diligence long before approaching you.

I wish you nothing but success if you choose to work with them...and I hope that it is a glowing and positive experience for you, sir!
Hunting/Fishing Show Format

Fishing Show:
Get in Boat
Make cast, with SuperGeeWhiz Deep Diving Catchall bait
Catch bass
Release bass
Brag up the lure, rod, reel, boat, lake, weather, etc.
Repeat above as necessary
Post credits at end of show, with outfitter name, phone number, email address

Deer Hunt Show:
Get in stand
Wait for buck
Grab bow or rifle, shoot buck
Brag up bow, arrow, broadhead, rifle, etc. manufacturer
Find buck, take pics, brag up outfitter, etc.
Roll credits at end of show, with outfitter name, phone number, email address

Turkey Hunt Show:
Dress up in camo, sit down in front of tree
Call turkey
Shoot turkey in head/neck with shotgun
Run out, pick up turkey, brag up fan, spurs, beard, etc.
Brag up shotgun, ammo, calls, camo, outfitter, etc.
Post credits at end of show, with outfitter name, phone number, email address

Africa Hunt
Arrive in camp, shake hands with everyone, brag up camp
Get in vehicle, drive around, spot game
Stalk close, get set up on shooting sticks, make shot
Run out to game, brag up horns, hide, age of animal, etc.
Brag up rifle, ammo, PH, etc.- repeat above as necessary
Post credits at end of show, with outfitter name, phone number, email address

It never ceases to amaze me how the producers of these shows continually come up with new, innovative ways of producing their shows.........
Hack- we've chatted enough that I know when I am going, I'm going with you. Closing on a house at the upper end of my budget and looming fiscal cliffs don't help. But I watch all 3 channels on Dish on and off when I am indoors. Seeing your show would certainly keep me focused on the savings and my priorities in the forefront of my daily life.

I know nothing of business but would guess a lot of dumb schitt like Ozonics and other gimmicks are sold due to the advertising. This Bone Collector stuff I thought to be THE DUMBEST line of marketing ever. But the Bubbas eat that stuff up. I say go for it. Just don't pimp yourself for free. I would be fearful of getting worked over with pretty extensive head counts to "get the shot". I like you would see a ton more bookings from just a few episodes. As long as that's your goal.
Quote
How much would a sportsman channel hunting show help you decide?

The last show I watched featured a Colorado outfitter.....the very same one that guided my friend onto another's land to shoot an an elk....he was tagged for trespassing.....a darn near criminal offense in Colorado.....did the outfitter stand behind him?.....NOPE!

Answer.....it wouldn't do a thing for me....and in this case actually be negative.
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