Not really intending to start a pissing match argument thing.......but I often read of how tough African game is. I'm not saying it's not, because I've never been. However I have shot lots and lots of aoudad sheep here in TX, and they're obviously African game. I've found that any well constructed bullet of a reasonable caliber, put in the right place does the trick.

Specifically talking plains game here.......are they really that tough or does it just make for an enhancement to a good story? Are they that much harder to put down than a bull elk for example? As I say, I could be way wrong, but it seems any well placed premium .270, .284, .308 bullet will put one down, right??????

You answered your question already.

Oh but you will...just stand by..

Although this is certainly not a scientific or legal description, I have seen some differences that I think do stand up, or at least justify some further thought. You only need to do this job for a few weeks and listen to the comments made by the hunters with you. I won�t type dozens of them here now, but common statements like this from my hunters for example: �I�ve killed a lot of big game but I�ve never seen an animal hit that hard stagger begin to fall and then run off requiring several hours to track up and still need another shot.�

For starters, many of the animals in Africa live in herds. This is a significant difference then the big game hunted in North America. Far fewer are hunted in large herds . When a single herd animal spooks and runs so will the whole herd at the same instant. They don't perk up to see if it's the idiot of the group that is just being stupid again, they trust even the most insecure and jumpy member of the herd when it spooks. This results in the whole group bolting through the bush to crash through branches and trees somewhat blindly.

Would anyone debate the will to live difference and resentment for being shot between a cape buffalo and a North American Bison? I've seen some rather unruly and wild bison, but they are the exception, buffalo on the other hand are almost all living on the edge! Take for example wildebeest, zebra, and gemsbok. These are arguably the tougher PG species to flatten. They are also the tougher ones to stop once hit and running off. These animals have very thick rubber like skin. It's far more elastic then an Elk, Deer, Bear, sheep, etc. This puncture resistant stretchy hide will seal up holes and stop the blood flow with extreme precision. A Deer or Pronghorn will have explosive exits from a typical hunting rifle, yet similiar sized game in Africa may fall and require you to look for several seconds to even find the entry or exit holes. Same with the Kudu, they are very soft and much like the construction of a typical Whitetail deer, just much larger in size. You can see the bullet holes in them very easily.

Why is that? In my opinion it's due to the kinds of trees, and the habit of running blind with the herd. The dozens of species of almost lethal thorn trees, and the frequency of these herd animals crashing through the bush may have caused them over 1000's of years to develop this type of skin that will seal up punctures, or be more resistive of punctures. Giraffe is clearly designed this way. Once you have skinned the chest of a Giraffe and seen that 3-4" thick "cartilage like" skin with Acacia thorns embedded into it you can see why.

There is a desire stronger then life itself for many of these herd animals. They can never be left behind of the group when it gets spooked and runs. Compare this to the soft, and quite fragile Kudu. An animal so large, yet so easy to kill, and very little will to live. Kudu have very soft skin, and are built very frail when compared to the herd animals.

A Kudu, is very much like a whitetail deer. They will carefully pick and choose the path through the bush, often not making much noise. They can also vanish like a ghost, leaping and turning to avoid any contact with the bush. Compare that to the wildebeest which will crash through everything in the way letting you hear them depart for a 100 yards until out of earshot! Is it simply coincidence that the crashing herd mentality of the wildebeest makes it so much harder to drop and follow up then the soft lone fragile pick the path Kudu bull? I think not.

There are always comments about African game being harder to kill. Maybe that's not 100% true, however they are absolutely harder to find dead. Finding a single elk, deer, bear, or sheep is a much less difficult undertaking then finding an equally hit African animal that lives in a large herd. As I was taught in PH academy, read the whole page not just the first word. There is much more to this puzzle then simply saying African game is tougher then North American game. A poorly hit lone Bull elk is a tough animal that can travel a long way.

They also live in a habitat with so much natural ground litter and rock that follow ups using only tracks can be very complicated. Mountain goats and moose are also quite difficult to make die and drop quickly. However when shot your looking for a single animal, not a massive herd that has created a dust bowl and left the scene with all the tracking evidence covered in dust and sand. With the dozens if not thousands of tracks to follow how do you know which animal you shot?� Has he peeled off from the group as he became sick and you have tracked right past him and followed the herd?

Once you find the herd you scan with your field glasses for an hour looking them over for blood, nothing found? Hours have now gone by. Your animal is either in the group, or you have passed it by and need to start over. If this happens at last light will you have much of a trophy remaining in the morning? In North America the population of predators is greatly reduced. Odds are fair or better that if you find the animal the next day it will be fine. In Africa with a low temp of 75 degrees at night, will it will be hair slipped, and with the massive populations of predators, odds are low it will be in one piece.

Just a blanket statement here is not realistic. There are some very tough species in both places. However having hunted for my living in both places, and seen quite a number of animals harvested in both places....... Well I've struggled more to find well hit game in Africa, then I have in North America. There are however lots more species there as well. The debate will never be apples and apples, it would be better to just pick a specific animal you�re interested in comparing them. With the diverse species, distances, dangerous game, and of course the blood tracking that will be needed, the larger bore cartridges stack the deck in your favor by a large margin.

Those under .308 diameter will require the greatest time consumed in follow ups, and the greatest risks for lost game. With a 7-14 day hunt, you sure don�t want to be spending any more time then needed on tracking and follow up. This is especially true when hunting two on one. If your partner is searching for lost game, you�re not hunting either! Plenty of folks make the mistake of comparing cartridges used in North America for hunting with what they perceive the needs in Africa to be. I wish I had some recorded statements from the hundred or so people who have said to me. �Wow you were right about the conditions and the choice of the gun� I�m not special in this regard, just observant.

We have seen the struggles and the success for many years. It just comes from experience. I�ve not known a single PH in my whole career that sees this any differently. Bigger bullets make finding game not only easier but possible in very poor conditions. Higher Velocity bullets crumple game faster with body shots then slower bullets. There are without question exceptions to these comments, but by and large these are rules to live by with hunting bullets. When you have big diameter and high velocity you have a magic wand of death. Probably why cartridges like the 375HH have been around so long with such an amazing history of success.

Great post JJ!

Read Kevin Robertson's "The PPerfect Shot" for the anatomy physiology lesson JJ has given. Placing the round through the vitals or spine will drop your game more quickly than through the viscera. Knowing where to place the round is the ticket.

I shot my white tailed gnu the same as I would have a bull moose. I took out the lung, liver and cut the aorta above the heart. The off shoulder was extruded through the skin on the off side. A perfect shot for a moose but I was not hunting moose. I was above and back of the necessary shot on the wildebeast. I shot instinctively not intelegently.

The beasty boy was followed for five miles. The blood trail was obvious but I can tell you I was shamed by the suffering he must have experienced. He was alive when we got to him but not able to stand. By this time I asked where to put the finishing shot. Before that I had lined up to head shot it when the PH shouted to stop. Duh! darned meat hunters . I followed instructions and the shot instantly killed it. Very low and forward put it through the heart. The herd mentality is incredibly strong.

Randy

Four pages at least...

+1

These two critters are tougher than any thing on our side of the pond

Excellent post JJ and I agree with you on two tenets of your posit:
1. Every animal is different and a "blanket" statement does not for accuracy make. Hit the animal, any animal in the RIGHT place and he'll die.
2. Given the same weight/caliber speed kills, just be sure you have the right bullet that meets the velocity parameters at impact.

Since when???

Bastid.......

Great read JJ. Also from what I've read from others, African game have their vitals farther forward. To me this means it's more likely than not you're going to need to punch through the shoulders. This alone would make them harder to kill and make caliber/ bullet choice very important. I may be wrong in my assumption but it seems like common sense, not that NA elk are a cake walk.

Let me throw something else out for perspective.

Many of us learned to hunt from our fathers and grandfathers. I know I did. The sacred directive on placing a broadside shot was "hit him right behind the shoulder". That seemed to be good advise. Deer hit there never went far. The men in my family used that guideline to fill up the freezer every Fall.

Once I took my studies to The Medical College of Georgia, I did a serious study of anatomy - of humans. The behind the shoulder shot made sense. Put a human on all fours and the heart lies behind the front shoulder, along with lungs, liver, etc.

I went to Africa for the first time. Shot everything behind the shoulder. Damned things ran more than whitetail deer and elk did before going down. We cut them up and my inquiring mind wanted to know why they didn't drop. Did I need a "bigger gun"?

I noted that the heart was never touched on any of these behind the shoulder shots. Make me realize that we always ate the heart of the deer we took (tasty!), and it was always untouched. Not being a farm boy, I never butchered any livestock. Cadavers - yes, livestock - no.

I met Kevin Robertson just as he was putting together The Perfect Shot. The photos and drawings were fantastic! It finally dawned on me that the heart of carnivores - lion, leopard, cheetah, humans, lies behind the shoulder. The heart of non meat eaters is directly behind the shoulder, being shoved forward out of necessity to make room for the GI tract which is so much bigger.

I decided if it eats grass, shoot it through the shoulder. If it can eat you, shoot it behind the shoulder.

That moment reduced the tracking time on shot game enormously. I have often wondered if others were raised on the same shooting principles and found similar results.

The things JJ says about herd animals is very true, along with the basic temperament of African game. Cape Buffalo are born pissed off at the world, and stay that way. Plains Game are food for cats every day. Natural selection and practice staying alive keeps them wound up.

For JG - I am in the camp that African game, pound for pound is tougher. They aren't bullet proof and they don't wear Kevlar. That conclusion many of us arrive at after hitting them with a good shot and watching them run off. The next reaction is "Damn they are tough!".

Follow the rules above, and they will drop and you will think the rest of us are crazy.

I'm a "through the shoulder" guy anyway. Maybe same thinking, just a little lower, huh? Nice post hatari.

Shoulder work all over the world!

Simple enough to remember.

Yes they are tougher
Yes you have to buy a new gun for Africa as your gun for white tails and your gun for elk and your gun for timber hunting and your gun for long range hunting and your antelope hunting rifle WILL NOT WORK in Africa.
You have to have a plains game rifle, a dangerous game bolt rifle, a bolt rifle that is a little too big for plainsgame and not quite big enough for dangerous game but will work if you just have to, and a double rifle. In some cases a drilling or combination gun is required.
And if you every meet my wife at DSC and tell her otherwise be prepared for me to call you a liar because you are very wrong!

The shoulder is another whole can of worms. I've not run into many people who clearly understand "shoulder"

You cannot break the shoulders yet that is the common statement. The shoulder is a geographical region, not a bone

Ask 50 people where the shoulder is and you get a pile of various opinions. It's clearly not like asking where is the foot, head, paw, tail.

Are people talking scapula or humorous neither of those bones are named shoulder but its what folks usually refer to. 99% have no idea that they float inside the body and have no joint connection to the rest of the skeleton.

Those bones can move a foot fore and aft from center. They can be darn close to Parallel not vertical. There is a mess under that skin that you cannot see but it's almost always referred to as the "shoulder"

What are you trying to break? Scapula? humorous? The region of muscles?

I think the humerus is certainly humorous.....especially if you tickle in the armpit region...

Oh brother......put it like this Hack.......whatever you wanna call it that's in the way of the heart, lungs, or both. I personally don't give a ratsazzz what you call it. How's that.

JJ,
Interesting point about the "shoulder". I have limited experience in big game but it seems to me that our newer premium projectiles kinda need to take a little shoulder to work at their best.

Like Hatari I was raised to shoot behind the shoulder on deer, don't ruin that meat! When I shot a few elk I started to think about taking a little shoulder and advised my friends to do so.

It has worked pretty well so far an a few elk and a kudu, wildebeest and gemsbok in Africa. Not all taken by me.

I don't have the answer to which is tougher, we had 7 one shot kills in SA, most with an '06. But then most of our deer are one shot kills as well, by there are those occasions when something goes wrong and wow they can take some horrific wounds and run off.

KC

I can not explain this but it is true. I was shooting my favorite bullet for white tailed deer, a 165 grain Siera HPBT out of my very accurate Sako .308 rifle. I shot a doe at almost exactly 190 yards. She was one of several doe eating in the middle of a clearing. At impact she reared up on her hind legs, stood still with her legs in the air for several seconds, turned 180 degrees, dropped to a standing position and didn't move. I saw the second round, fired by my hunting pal, hit her perfectly in the lungs. She dropped as the rest of the doe ran toward the edge of the clearing and disappeared into the thick brush. As we walked to where she had hit the turf she stood up and followed the herd. My pal tracked her, following a plentiful blood trail, for over a mile until she swam a small river.

I have shot buffalo, zebra, and wildebeest, purportedly the toughest African animals to bring down and never experienced anything like this. I have never had a deer do anything but drop at the shot or stagger/run a few yards before piling up. This little doe, maybe 130 lbs, had been hit twice through the lungs and we lost her. I am going to use spine or shoulder shots - and I'm considering head shots - it looks as if the doe we shot was somehow able to keep on moving with two well placed rounds through her boiler room. I am still amazed and sorry that she died in the deep woods and we didn'r bring her home for the freezer.

Terry

Terry, the only time I have seen the behavior you described following the first shot happened when the bullet went thru both knee joints.

JG,
We're not in a science class. Smash it with a big enough stick on the shoulder and its going nowhere. Our animals are not bullet proof. Hardy, but not bullet proof. Stay away from the gut.
If you can find a copy of The Perfect shot, it will be invaluable.

except it doesnt always work with cats, due to their floating collar bone their shoulders have a hell of alot of movement(the reason the can crouch so flat and still crawl forward) and in certain positions can put the shoulder well forward of the heart IIRC.....

JJ you are spot on again. I skin and butcher all my own animals so I know how running gear works and is connected......"shoulder shot" for me is to follow the leg straight up...1/3 up is "low shoulder" which isn't actually shoulder 2/3 up is " high shoulder" this is the drop um on the spot shot but leaves far less margin for error... I'm a "low shoulder" shooter
I think many use the term shoulder because of our human anatomy...where arm meets body is shoulder animals are put together differently

It aint' rocket science boys (and I'm still holding to my multiple pages prediction), just go right up the leg about 1/3 up into the ahem, "shoulder" and squeeze the trigger. Screw the ruining meat BS. That picture of the deer is a good one and take a look at the entry wound on the buffalo(the white patch on the "shoulder". that's what you might call a "perfect shot". Like my friend Allen Day (RIP) used to say, "break bone" :

jorgeI, Agreed in spades.


maddog

JorgeI,

Spot on.

Amen jorgeI

How much meat is lost when you don't recover the beast? Tuggin on a little bone helps em feel it.

KC

An old Walter Mauser 7x57 throwing 160 gr AB' at a puny 2600 fps seemed to work for my youngest son, a little 13 year old nimrod.

Nice pictures Ed

Never did care for shoulder roasts. A pain to fit into a roaster and it's easier to make into and tastes better as burger or sausage meat. Makes a good target though.

This is from my website and shows exactly that we are talking about here. From an educational standpoint I think it's going to clear up most of the questions. It will also show the construction of the animals with the bones in relationship to the organs. With this, and the knowledge that hitting the bones will not in many case hit any lethal organs, should help in understanding the confusion on this.

It should help folks to understand why so many (read COUNTLESS) guys claim bullet failure or how tough game is. They make the so called "shoulder shot" and see the animal is clearly been smashed through the "shoulder" falling yet regaining it's feet and running for a very long difficult tracking job while one leg is flopping and dangling. Even while tracking we can easily determine which is the correct track to follow because there is a distinct set of three legged tracks being made. That animal that was hit is dragging or unable to use that leg.

Please see the pictures to clear this up visually at:
http://www.huntingadventures.net/index.php?nav=newsandarticles&id=1

The pictures did not copy with the cut and past of my article.

This question comes up many times in my lodge when hunters are trying to decide where to shoot African game. I think it's best to sort out a few terms, such as "shoulder". The shoulder is not a bone, it's a joint, it's also referred to as the muscular region around the scapula and humerus. I would bet the vast mojority of people don't fully understand this bit of anatomy. The scapula is also known as, or is often referred to as, the shoulder blade. The humerus is the first long bone of the front leg which is connected to the scapula. There is no single part of the anatomy that is a "shoulder", but rather the area of the joint which is called the shoulder.

In this Kudu anatomy drawing, you can see the scapula isn't really covering anything vital. A small portion of the spine, which is a very small target to define, when under the skin and muscle. If the shot is too high, the bones can still be hit solid, but no vital organs will take a direct hit. A miss of the scapula, too low, is much better.
When you hear a person say they "broke the shoulder(s)", they typically refer to that (in my opinion) as the scapula or humerus bones. An absolutely dead on the money bullseye into the shoulder would be the joint between the two. However I challange anyone to show me that they've broken them both!
Shooting through the shoulders is simple enough but doesn't always mean any bones were broken, or any vital organs hit. I have a shoulder blade right here on my desk from a black bear that has a healed bullet hole right through it. It has another hole from my bullet which actually killed the bear.

This shows the relationship of the scapula and actual humerus bones. The lower humerus was from the other side of this bear, or opposite front leg. It was shot and broken and then healed just fine allowing this bear to keep on living, although he had a severe limp. The scapula also had a bullet hole on the top edge. My bullet hit lower and killed the bear many years after the original hunter wounded him, by taking the shoulder shot only inches too high.

If an animal has the shoulder joint between the scapula and humerus broken on both sides they cannot make forward progress with their front legs, that is plain and simple. If you shoot too high, through the shoulder blades, you will be below the spine and above the organs just as this scapula above shows. If you blow through the humerus you will, in nearly every case, hit vital organs and make quick death of the animal.

The vast majority of hunters I've heard say "I broke the shoulders" are referring to the front legs being broken. My question would be (if I was rude) lets skin him and see what's broken I want you to show me where the shoulder is. It would not likely be identifed properly by the majority of recreational sport hunters.

I like the low scapula shot and take it often. Anyone shooting this way must have a fair bit of anatomy knowledge. This whole assembly floats inside the body. The front scapula and leg bones are not linked to the rest of the skeleton with a joint. They are free floating and have no skeletal connection to the rest of the skeleton's bones. From the scapula down they are only connected to each other and not the rest of the skeleton. Again most hunters don't picture it this way and most assume there is some big joint connecting the front legs to the main skeleton similiar to the pelvis joint.

This is a closer photo of the off side broken humerus bone which had completely healed. It's 30% shorter than the other side, but this bear lived many years after being shot in the leg. My guess is that the bears leg was too far forward climbing up a hill and the bullet that broke this leg exited the armpit and missed the body completely.

Because of this when an animal walks climbs or stands up hill or down hill the joints in the front legs move a great distance. The scapula can move nearly a foot under the skin in every direction, it's loose under there and moves all around depending upon the stride or reach of the animal.

Making this your aimpoint causes various concerns depending upon the way the animal is standing. The bones on the right do not always match the bones on the left either. They are fully independent of one another. I like to "break the shoulders" but what exactly does that mean? To me it means break the humerus or the joint connecting the humerus to the scapula. Anything higher is non vital except for the very small section of spine (although likely pretty painful) and lower is below any reasonable reference to a shoulder shot.

Even though lower can be a perfect heart shot and still very lethal. With some high powered rifles and explosive bullets, a shot through the scapula will destroy enough bone that the additional fragmnets will explode into the chest cavity causing additional hemorage of vital organs.

I think the most important thing to remember about the whole thing is not to deliberately shoot for the scapula but rather just below it or at the bottom of it. A shot going only a few inches high will be a complete distaster and the animal will run for a long way! Missing the mark on the lower side is going to be better every time.

Here is another angle of the scapula above showing the top edge of the bullet hole. Not much of a miss too high, but it was enough to allow him to survive for years. It has quite a lot of abnormal growth but the hole is still through it.

It's important, I think, to understand these concepts before you go out and start trying to bust shoulders!

Right on King Marius! You said it much better than I did.

JG,
Just a simple thing to keep in mind is the angle of your shot. Putting a shot "on" the shoulder from a quartering away shot, will undoubtedly cause you to place the shot too far forward and miss the vitals. A good rule is to always try and break the opposite leg (read shoulder) from any quartering away shot. If the animal is quartering away, go up the opposite leg with your cross-hairs and try and to see "through" your target animal. Try to visualize where the opposite shoulder is. This means that the bullet has to travel through vitals (Lungs, heart) to get to opposite shoulder. This obviously gets us to a whole other topic of good quality bullets that has the capability of penetrating through all that animal without breaking up. This is why I'm a big fan of bullets like Barnes TSX and GS Custom. The Hornady GMX is also right up there. Have not used them, but have heard some great reviews.

I think the African stuff is more tenacious of life, I think that comes from being chased around all the time and trying to avoid becoming someone else's lunch. Whitetails, black bear, caribou, moose, etc in my experience are pretty easy to kill even with smaller calibers. African antelope on the other hand are tough in my opinion. I've had them drop at the shot but also seen them die hard like a puku that took a 270 gr TSX from my .375 the length of his body from a Texas heartshot who was paralyzed but showed no sign of dying even when a tracker put a knife in his heart and wiggled it around. I do think they seem tougher but agree that a well placed bullet will almost always put them down.

African antelope are tough. But so are elk and whitetail deer. Heavy for caliber, premium bullets, shot placement. All non-dangerous game, African and North American, will succumb to that combination. There is nothing magical about the African zebra, wildebeest, oryx, etc.

Going back to the OP, he has 'read' about African toughness. There lies the source of the myth: In gun culture promoted by various publications this myth is perpetuated.

Those of us who have been to Afrca or who are experienced in the field should be able (and from the responses) have recognised it as such. I would propose the sources of this myth are:

1) The afore mentioned publications looking to sell magazines through hunting culture.
2) Asset rich/time poor (city folk) 'hunters' who are unfamiliar with game anatomy and their firearms and make poor shots, therefore the animals must be tougher..
3) Astute marketers of 'product'.
4) The big ego/small dick brigade who want to turn nothing into somthing.
5) Consumers of marketing who have new, larger firearms than they need/can handle properly.
6) Unfamiliarity with the larger African animals, than the animals they are used to at home.

I read with interest that a few posters have made the same observations as myself.

1) Some animals do have 'the vitals' a little more forward than I was used to.
2) This is not rocket science.
3) The Kudu is a pit of a 'softy' when it comes to taking damage.

Tophet1, that makes the most sense out of most anything I've read or seen posted here. Thank you sir! You mentioned the the OP (me) "read" things on the subject. That's why I posted here, wanting real world answers and not a load of BS. The only thing I can remotely relate to is aoudad sheep. I've killed a whole bunch of 'em with a 7-08 and corelokts. IIRC aoudad are African animals..........

JJ; please look at this. A couple of years ago while in the Limpopo a pair of gemsbok loped by and the PH said something to the effect of good game. Being old and half deaf I thought he said to take that one. The TSX broke the humerus on the near side and the scapula on the off side, got deep into the brisket and lower chest. Critter went about 300yd with a sprinkly blood trail I could even follow. The gemsbok must have ben i stride change and got both legs lineup. It was still able to ,move off with only muscles "slinging" its front end off the ground. It was standing when we caught up, but all the steam was gone. That was a lot of life force.

Exactly, they do not leave the heard and will run dead on their feet a long way.

Compare to lone species that will run a bit and lay down to hide, no buddies leaving them behind. No reason to run endlessly.

The other issue with gemsbok is that they take flight for no logical reason and the group will run and continue to run until some barrier or landscape diversion stops them, or until the all seem to forget why they began running in the first place.

Gemsbok are not the sharpest tack in the drawer, they depend on a lightening fast getaway with unsurpassed endurance to increase the gap from danger.

Wound one or make a marginal but lethal hit. You will be walking that trail for a very long time, over a very likely great distance!

The days when hunters pitched up with gear they feel uncomfortable using would be about long gone by now.

There are so few hunters who arrive unfamiliar with their rifles and/or gear that about the only thing we need to do is to sight the rifle. Forums like this one are a tremendous resource and a wealth of information with some hunters spending more than 13 months researching their stuff before arriving. Heck, you are better informed by the time you get here than we are. And you mostly shoot like kings. The odd hunter misses, but who has not missed in his life?

Our animals are not bullet proof or immune to lead poisoning. Hit it in the correct spot (read: The Perfect Shot) with premium ammunition and you will have a trophy.

I'd reckon some of these are probably myths too, however you only need one bloke with a pen or Video camera to experience/observe/hear about them once and they become perpetuated fact.

With the caveat that I've never been,I guess you can't blame a guy for asking about African game toughness if he was raised on a gunwriter culture of Elmer Keith types whacking running game too far back with long 333 Kynoch bullets that came apart like confetti;animals that ran and ran and ran....gave the poor guys back here the impression that great big cartridges and bullets were required.For a guy who'd been on very few safaris, Keith gave an awful lot of African hunting advise.

Then,we still had writers like JOC and others who used 30/06's,270's and 7x57's,280's...reasonable stuff and killed animals "dead", but got shouted down by Big Bore advocates in print,and truth got lost in the din.

Today thankfully we have guys like Johnny B and JJ Hack to give us straight scoop...plus bullets are a whole lot better.Like Peter posted above the amatuers get better information and advise today.Nice to get sound counsel from people who have BTDT.

I havent read the whole thread but I can guess the contents.... Use your favorite cartridge, a premium bullet, and aim a bit farther forward on the animal than you are used to, and you will fill an ark...

Thanks for posting this-- this really says it all.

I go in late May with my old 30.06 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions and feel VERY adequately armed. This will be my 4th time so I do have some experience. Others may feel differently but for Plains game, it is totally adequate.

Oh yeah, one exception. Eland. Those buggers are Alaskan Moose sized and like Moose, take some killing. Only African game I shot more than once and it took 3 hits from a 300 Mag to decide to lay down. I would shoot one with a 30.06 but would be very careful of shot placement. JMHO YMMV

I basically agree with what JJ Hack says. But I think there's another factor or two.

Until recent years, most safari-goers had more money than skill. They read about how "tough" the game was and decided they needed a larger rifle. So they bought some big bore and could not shoot it very well without flinching. Result: Gut shots. See? "Even the big magnum didn't kill the game cleanly."

Second, if you refer to "The Perfect Shot," you will notice that certain game like Wildebeeste and Gemsbok has the vitals lower in the chest than North American game. Shoot it in the middle of the chest and you might not hit anything except maybe the spinal processes.

My experience is that African plains game is no tougher to kill--vs. to track or find--than any similar sized stuff. That goes for Wildebeeste and Zebra too.

I've posted this before, but it is pertinant to this thread. A cull Gemsbok I shot with a .308 and 165 Woodleigh at approx 50 metres. 'Advertisement perfect' projectile under the skin on the off side. It took out the top of the heart and shows accurate shot placement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiD5aoNAfTI&list=UUUbv5HhzasB1q9VGM5-Jvfg&index=14
You need to turn up the sound.

Of this I am certain.....the farther one travels for his quarry, the tougher it gets!

I'd add to that..'the larger the trophy fee'.

Very educational post, thank you for taking time to share your knowledge and experiences! I may never fire a gun in Africa but I never tire of reading hunting related stories and adventures there.

I remember since I was a kid decades ago reading that the 375HH was the, or at the very least, one of the short list calibers of choice there and wondering what it was like to fire that gun with all that horsepower?

On the other hand, with a cape buffalo staring you down and about to charge, I am sure the adrenaline is on full boil and the kick of a rifle is among the last things on your mind. A guide in Alaska once said, " would you rather endure the kick of a big bore or being mauled to death by a grizzly?" That pretty much said it all!

The 375HH does not have what I would classify as a lot of recoil. It's a powerful shove like a 12 guage 3" mag.

It is not the sharp spear like jab of a 300, 340, 378, weatherby. Nor is it the direct pounding impact of the 458 Lott and 500 Jeffery.

I've stated before in this forum many times, the 375HH is the highest value in killing power you can get for the investment you make in the recoil. There is not another cartridge I have ever used or shot that provides such astonishing power for the effort to shoot it. I've had a 5'2" 110lb woman use mine to shoot quite a few animals including a giant old white rhino, and an elephant.

Nobody should fear that cartridge's recoil.

Well said. When I bought my first .375 years ago I was astounded by how mild it was to shoot. I honestly would rather shoot a .375 than a .300 or .338 and it kills out of all proportion to what you think it would. A lot of people say it is overpowered for North America but I don't agree, I think it is the best moose and elk cartridge on the planet and though I have never hunted the big bears but it would have to be great for them as well.

I took my 375 to Zim last yr.
My first trip, 10 days for buffalo
Ph asked me to cull a bull that had
a snare wound on day 4.
2 shots and stone dead.
The next day we got into 5 bulls and
I double lunged the biggest bull, he went
800 yards and lived another 30 mins.
We found him dead where he had doubled back
and was watching "the backtrail"
My short experince is probably average.
Never felt under gunned

I just finished re-reading Green Hills as well the The Short and Happy Life of Francis McComber(actually had to force myself as I find Hemingway impossible to read) as well as watched the movie and found it rather amusing the rifle/caliber combo used for most of the hunt was what I know for a fact to be a Sedgley 3006. From buffalo on down. The only time a double was used was on a lion charge. Solids too.. Interesting anyway. jorge