I know you're restricted to 11lbs of ammo, but a guy told me that weight included the locked ammo case.
Your experience?

I take only what I really need, and nobody has ever weighed the ammo.

how much game you gonna shoot? I tell my hunters to bring 40 rounds, enough to sight in and go. I have only had one hunter use more, he needed 78 rounds, we drove hours to get him resupplied. He was the greatest exception to the norm. I've never seen anyone so afraid of his gun and shoot that poorly before or since.

you only need a locked box for flights within RSA, you do not need a locked box leaving the USA or arriving in RSA.

JJ-
We are flying from USA to RSA, overnight there then to Botswana the next day. Are you saying we don't need locked box?

On two trips to Africa and on two domestic flights, my ammo wasn't weighed.

On one trip with Air France, my ammo was inspected and weighed. It was weighed in the cartridge boxes but was first taken out of the small locked Pelican case I had it in. Though they took the ammo out of the Pelican case, from reading the Air France web site, I believe they could have made a case for weighing it in the Pelican case.

So, I think it's unlikely your ammo would be weighed on South African Airways or Delta Airlines but there is a way better than average chance that it would be weighed on Air France.

Be prepared for anything. I have been three times, and have had my ammo weighed somewhere along the way on each trip. They DO include the weight of the box. To be on the safe side, get a lockable box, and put your name and addess on it with a magic marker.I have flown with American, Delta, and SAA. They ALL can get anal about ammo, SAA is the worst, especially on their domestic flights.

I do what JJ said, take 40 rounds...20 for hunting and 20 to re-sight if need be. No one ever weighed mine on six trips. However Ive seen them come unglued if the ammo box accidentally opened, so I seal mine with strapping tape....

You do not need a locked box or any box for that matter flying to RSA only for flights within RSA.

If you are driving from Joburg to where ever in Botswana you don't need a box. If you are flying from Joburg to Botswana then you will.

I use and suggest to all my hunters that they carry ammo in MTM slip cases with rubber bands around them or packing tape. If traveling with others, split the ammo into everyones luggage so that any one missing bag does not cause the loss of all of one hunters ammo.

Don't put in your carry on, just had to say it.......... Had a hunter do this leaving Joburg, it did not go well

Best tip yet...

There have been instances (quite a few actually) of folks transiting to JNB on the way to Zim & other destinations where their ammo has been "detained' because it was not in a locked box inside their suitcases. Morons even dumped all in a plastic bag, tagged it as luggage and sent it to be loaded aboard. Buy a plastic box that you can lock and throw the boxed ammo in it and inside your suitcase. TIA for chrissakes..

There are plenty of lightweight, lockable plastic boxes around. They don't add a lot of weight to the ammo and they're cheap, too. It doesn't matter if somebody could break into them in seconds, as long as they're legal. (And for that matter, even some expensive boxes are easy to break into. A friend from Back East once came out to Montana to shoot varmints, bringing a Halliburton case full of handloads. The built-in dial lock went tits-up on the flight, and he was panicking over having to try to find some .222 Remington ammo in rural Montana. I had the Halliburton open within half a minute, using a medium-sized screwdriver as a pry bar.)

The only time ammo weight can even be a relaistic concern is if you're shooting some really big boomer with heavy bullets and insist on bringing more than 40 rounds of ammo. On my last safari, in Tanzania, I brought a 9.3x62 with 286-grain bullets and a .416 Rigby with 400's. Even that much heavy ammo only weighed about 8 pounds, so there was 3 pounds to spare for the 20-round ammo boxes and lockable case. That was the ONLY trip I've made to Africa where they weighed my ammo--and they took the 20-round boxes out of the lockable case to weight it. That was when we were getting on the flight home in Dar es Salaam.

(Wouldn't have brought that much .416 on most trips, but I could shoot 2 buffalo, and was also after hippo. Ended up only shooting one buffalo, since the first one taken was the biggest seen, and was only going to shoot a hippo on land, not in the water, so ended up not getting one. Did have some adventures with 'em, though....)

Glad to hear the comments Mule Deer. I have been considering the following cases.

http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/shooting/ammo-can-ac30c.html

http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1150

http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1200

No doubt the Pelican are more durable and suitable for shipping if you were not allowed in your luggage. However they weigh more. I have great confidence in the MTM case, except for the hinge which would be the weakness. A coworker pointed out that a couple of wraps of duct tape would help ensure the MTM kept together, if I had to check the ammo separately.

I always wrap any plastic ammo box with duct tape when flying. I'd just get the cheapest, lighter lockable one you can. The entire regulation is more feel-good than anything else.

Sort of like anti-gunners trying to ban AR-15's. There's no rational reason for it, and it won't bring down the murder rate, but it makes them feel like they're doing something.

On my last two trips to South Africa, I've used a plastic kids "Shrek" lunch box for my ammo. I drilled a hole through the "lips" of the box for a TSX lock. The lunch box will easily hold two Magnum size slip top 20 round cartridge cases.

I've used this on flights on both Delta and SAA without any problems.

On another trip I took two rifles so I used a plastic tool box to carry my two slip top cases of .375 RUM ammo and two cases of 7mm RM ammo. I then filled the extra room in the tool box with my underware and socks for padding.

For dealing with the five Kilogram rule for ammunition, my booking agent told me to go down to Staples and buy the cheapie little metal cash box with the lock. About $14.00. I took a wildcat 416 along with a 270 Win. I mixed and matched my ammo until I got down to about 9 & 1/2 lbs. But this was important at the check in desk at Tombo in Jo'berg. My gun case came through O.K., but red tag or not, my suitcase with the ammo, never got to the counter. Maybe a shift change, maybe it just came out on the carousel, and I missed it.

But it became lost luggage, for a day. I had followed my booking agent's instructions, and downloaded the S.A.P. 520 form and filled out a couple, and had one in my gun case, and one in my carry on. I was still questioning where my bag was, when I got up to the young lady doing the paper work. I just handed her my filled out forms, and she shrugged and copied down everything.

My chauffeur at Cape Town, made some phone calls for me in Afrikanz, and they sent my bag through to Cape Town the next day with the ammo box still inside. When I asked where I would check my gear through customs, belatedly, they just pointed to the exit door. They didn't have to point twice. This cost me an extra $60 for the extra limo trip to and from the Cape Town Airport.

Incidentally, I could pack nearly 14 lbs of ammo into that little black cash box. I knocked out the hasp and security chain, first thing. I even slipped in a couple of boxes of 22LR for my P.H., and noted them on the SAP form. My wildcat used 350 gr. Speer Mag Tips, and my 270 used Federal ammo with 110 gr. Barnes TTSX's. I used the factory boxes for the Federal ammo, and printed off some gummed labels with my wildcat's logo which I stuck to Hornady paste board boxes with Frankfort arsenal plastic egg crate bottoms inside them. Everything fit just like downtown, and I had no problems. The Hornady outfit was nice enough to mail me ten of these flat stock African paste board Ammo boxes. The bottom halves of the 300 Win. Mag. Frankfort Arsenal plastic boxes fit right inside of the Hornady paste boards. Hornady didn't have the black plastic separators in stock.

I did fly directly from Atlanta to Jo'berg, and I will never, never, do that again. Next go, will have to go through some European country with a day lay over. And I was in Delta's extra comfort seating, one row behind the bulkhead row, separating us from the first class pods. The Triple Sevens have way too much flying range.

Coming back to Atlanta, I gave enough gear away to my P.H. and his crew, so that I lost my camera bag, and bought some extra foot room. At Atlanta, I had to clear customs with my gun case and bags, and then make it to the far end of Stansfield Turner in under two hours. The Salt Lake flight passengers were disappearing down the ramp when I flashed my boarding pass at the last moment, and barely made my connection.

My parting advice is to K.I.S.S. up, and stay very, very, focused! The best piece of all my gear was a AAA chest wallet, with the padded cable around my neck.

The reason for the tinny little cash box with the ten cent lock is that anyone can pry it open with a screw driver or pocket knife, and inspect your ammunition, without you standing there. My lock was still intact at Cape Town, but it probably should have been pried open, at Jo'berg, after it became lost luggage. Of course the lost luggage desk at Cape Town, blamed me for not getting my bag off of the carousel at Jo'berg. But with the red tag on it, it should have been taken off to the gun counter along with everyone elses. I still think it stayed just behind the gun counter, due to a shift change. This place was helpful, but not necessarily coordinated.

You know that a lay over in Europe will require you to have gun permits or some secure airport storage etc for your guns, then rechecking then again In a foreign country without intimate knowledge of their rules!

Not sure how that is a better plan then the direct flight from Atlanta. But we all have a different threshold for government and firearm bureaucracy issues.

I'm from a different mold. Flying direct from Atlanta to joburg is the only game in town for me.

J.J. More power to you. Delta is playing games over their extra comfort bulkhead seating. Going over, they claimed that they were holding this row for mothers with infants. But all I saw were business men. Coming back, a State Dept. employee from our embassy in Pretoria was seated right in front of me. She admitted that State slips extra funds to the airlines to keep some of the bulkhead seating available for State Dept. customers. I have a circulation problem in one leg, and sure could have used some extra leg room. Most of the men I talked with at Jo'berg had indeed flown in through a European route. They were prepared and didn't have any trouble with their rifles.


If there really was a baby, in a bassinet, these bulkhead seats wouldn't be that good anyway. I got this odoriferous treat on a long ago flight from Sea Tac to Honolulu. It's not that I wouldn't pay extra for leg room, but they are just playing games with them. If you can afford first class, seated in the Triple Seven's pods, it's all O.K. On a positive note, I have 26,200 Delta Sky Miles, from this trip alone.

JJ:

Having to claim rifle(s) and baggage for day or night layover in Europe is not necessarily required if you transit via Frankfurt or Zurich. We've gone through Frankfurt and Zurich once each so far and Zurich again this May.

As long as the airline that you use from the US to your connection has a baggage handling agreement with the airline you're connecting with for the inbound African leg AND your lay-over is less than 24 hours you can check all your luggage all the way through to your first African entry city or your final destination if your are just transiting J'berg to another country. We've even over-nighted in J'berg before catching the morning flight to Windhoek and never claimed rifles or checked luggage in J'berg.

All we do is make sure we put at least one box of ammo for each rifle (in a locked box) in each of our checked bags - requires the airlines to do special handling and accounting of the bags. I mark the baggage claim check stubs to indicate which ones are luggage and which ones are rifle cases. When we get to the boarding gate we hand the claim stubs to the agent and ask the rep to confirm our baggage is on the plane. As long as we do this at EVERY connection we've not had any lost or delayed luggage. The one time I didn't confirm the luggage, our rifle cases didn't make the flight. It was our return flight home and I got lazy making our connection in J'berg. We transferred from SAA to Swiss Air and I didn't confirm with the Swiss Air check-in counter.

The computer systems that are SUPPOSED TO link all the airlines and luggage together don't always connect the passenger's luggage to the individual passenger like they are SUPPOSED TO. Numerous times the check-in rep has said, "the bags are in the system" but the system didn't always associate the bags with the flight or us when transferring between airlines.

There is nothing that says you can't claim your stuff in the intermediate cities if you want or feel you need too for the extra security of having them in you hands while you sleep or day-trip but, if all that is being done is claiming them from the airline and doing a bunch of extra paperwork just to end up leaving them at the terminal with the police (who are also supposed to be watching the airlines secured storage area anyway) may be too much extra hassle for some.

Rcutchen:

Like most things in the life, the written word of the airline regulation is still subject to the interpenetration of the airline rep you happen to deal with at the check-in counter.

The if the airline allows the carriage of ammo and go by the ICAO regs it is 5 kilos (11 lbs) of loaded ammo. If they do weigh it and you are way over because you've packed "extra stuff" in the box - like knives, clothes, gun cleaning stuff etc., you can politely challenge the weight and ask the agent IF you can open the box and take the individual boxes of ammo out and weigh them separate from the lock box and other "stuff".

At check-in when we declare our luggage with ammo, we've always been asked "how much ammo" and I've always simply replied "less than 5 kilos for each of us" and never been questioned on the US side. Only once when coming back did an agent ever ask to see a lock box and question the weight. I offered to open the box and let her weigh the ammo separately but, she declined and we pressed on.

I've never had the airline allow me to check my bags straight through on flights with firearms when connecting in foreign countries, with a layover. It was clearly stated that the airport had no secure firearm storage for layovers. So it was a no go.

I stopped doing this 10 years ago. I'm glad to hear that this is now allowed, or somehow managed. We all have a different ability to tolerate risk and conflict with airport personnel. Mine is very low.

At the point I'm in the US airport knowing "the rules" about the baggage getting checked through. Then the agent says. No you're going to have to collect your bags and check them for the next flight.

Now what?

No gun permits for a country you headed to in hours. What will be required? Is it even legal to enter that country without pre approved permits ( it's not when coming to America as an example)

So for me with the simple issue of a box to lock ammo in with dozens of opinions and experiences along with the countless issues at the check in counter. I'll stick with a direct flight on a good American carrier.

That's just my opinion because I don't have the tolerance for risk and worry when countless idiots are involved with my success.

JJ:

Concur 100% - $hit happens and TIA and all and I know you transit between the US and multiple countries.

The last 10 years of my military (post 9/11) career was a HQ USCENTCOM. I worked in coordinating Coalition force offers into Iraq and Afghanistan. Traveled to 58 countries; mostly middle-east, North Africa, East Africa, and Central Asia - many, multiple times. Sometimes with weapons/ammo, sometimes not. Mostly civilian airlines until the final legs into/out of IZ/AFG.

Luggage and weapons (if taken) were checked all the way through to the initial country point of entry before claiming/clearing and boarding another in-country connecting flight. The base travel agency always insured there were baggage handling agreements between all the civilian carriers. That agreement is the key.

In 2010 when my wife and I flew through Frankfurt, It was US Air to Frankfurt and Air Namibia direct into Windhoek. Bags/rifles checked in at Tampa and picked up in Windhoek. Another guy in 2011, took a different airline from Chicago to Frankfurt and Air Namibia into Windhoek. He had to claim his bags/rifles in Frankfurt and do the German temp/transit permit dance in Frankfurt - not a big deal and the Germans are very hunter friendly. The difference was the airline he took to Frankfurt didn't have a baggage handling agreement with Air Namibia.

The following year (2011) we wanted to do the Frankfurt route again but the airline we have a bunch of FF miles on didn't have a baggage agreement with Air Nam and we ended up going via Zurich - J'berg - Windhoek. Checked bags/rifles all the way.

Turns out we (read that wife) likes Zurich MUCH better than Frankfurt so we are routing via it this year. Tampa over-night direct to Zurich - day lay-over - overnight direct J'berg and into Windhoek early afternoon. Swiss Air all the way except SAA JNB-WDH.

Only problem with Swiss Air is we only get one free checked bag each - taking just one rifle case and two checked (three of us going this year)and we go back to the same place in Namibia every year and have left a lot of clothes and kit there from previous years. Just had to notify Swiss Air that we were traveling with firearms 2-weeks in advance and I took care of that the day I purchased the tickets directly via the Swiss Air web site.

With the exception of the first trip we took to Namibia, I've been researching and booking our own tickets directly - six annual trips to Namibia and one to KZN to take the Ian Goss PH qualification course in Oct 2011. Takes a little time and some phone calls to confirm baggage handling and firearm policies but that is part of the fun.

And yes, I am a "planner" and any time we've transited JNB I always have copies of pre-filled out SAPS 520's, extra Passport copies and 4457's just in case - TIA after all.

One time the SAA guy, on a flight from J-burg to Zim, insisted I take the plastic box containing the ammo out of my suitcase and check it as baggage. Problem is I didn't have a lock, so I ty-wrapped the thing shut. The ty-wraps broke but my "luggage" arrived intact.

Put your ammo in a locked plastic box inside your suitcase and put your name and address on the plastic box.

Don't take 40 rounds like JJ recommends. Take 60 and leave the overage with the PH.

indyCA35, Make sure your PH has a permit for those cartridges. We used to stockpile ammo too in RSA for out hunters. However with the law changes you must have a permit for every gun, and then you're only allowed to have ammo in possession for the guns that you have permits for.

If your PH / outfitter has the same cartridge then you're good to go. One reason why the 30/06 and 375HH are so popular!!

My ammo has been weighed, inspected, and scrutinized once in a closet-sized room in South Africa by three men. I did not enjoy that shake down. I have also been harassed in Seattle, Washington for the weight of my ammo by an ignorant tree-hugging wolf-loving employee of the airline who was not going to check me through to Windhoek until she was sure she had done everything she could to prevent me from going on a nice hunt.

In short, the 11 pound rule is not likely to cause you a problem, but why chance it when you have so much at risk to lose?

I have flown BA, to various African destinations quite a few times. I actually had them ask for me to weigh my ammo one time. I have been preparred for it every time. I had (out of memory) 20; 500NE and 40; 375HH rounds. I had it right at 5KG's. The gate agent had it at 5.5KG's. I said...OK, lets try it this way and took them out of the original boxes and neatly stood them all up on the scale. She was satisfied with my result and onward I flew.

The gate agents are the key to a happy trip. Smile and flirt a bit and you'll be on your way.

Oh and NEVER EVER let a PH talk you into "throwing a box" of whatever in you bag for his use. Let him smuggle his own ammo in.

I stood in the Joburg airport (2011) and had them weigh my ammo when I was flying out to Zim. I had 40rds of 416 ruger and 40rds of 450NE that came in at 10 1/2 lbs for a total of 13 lbs when in the locking box. The english speaking clerk balked and I said "the rules say 11 lbs of ammo and it says nothing about the container weight". I took the ammo out, put it on her counter scale, made weight, loaded up and made the plane. The only time anyone has ever asked and she was easy to deal with but you never know.

My ammo has never been weighed either. Also check with your PH I know some might have the same caliber as you and sometimes in the worst case scenario might have a little extra laying around. Long story short I normally take 40 rounds and 2 rifles depending on game that I am hunting. I have never gone over 40 rounds and hope never to either.

Just weighed some Hornady .470 NE 500 DGX and 20 of them were right about 2.75 pounds, or 11 pounds for four boxes.

I flew British Airways last fall. They made us ship our ammo as "luggage". I was well prepared and all of our ammo was boxed in Pelican cases. I wasn't worried at all as they all had locks on them also.

Prepare for the worst. I don't skimp when it comes to Africa. Ammo is in a Pelican Case, Guns are in a Pelican Case. You never know what they will make you do. So that is why I don't do cheap crappy lunch boxes.

Last trip over was with my .500NE and 570 Grain bullets. I think stuff was weighing in at over 3lbs a box.

Use the MTM Dry Survivor Box with a small Master Lock and put you ammo in there. Even if you have to ship it you can put a name tag on it and ship it with the other luggage. Works fine. I used mine last July from Texas to Zim - Namibia and back. I sell them on my site www.huntersheadquarters.net.
It went over in the bottom of my Tuffpak.

you most definitely need a locked box.

My ammo was checked separately on Air Bots from RSA to Maun.

I have never had a hunt ruined by too much ammo.

Good article

http://sportsafield.com/notes-from-afield/how-much-ammo