African hunters: Is the 9.3x62 round with its heaviest bullet of around 300 grains considered sufficient for cleanly taking all the "big 5"? Is it commonly used or used only "in a pinch"for those large dangerous animals. Id guess its great for everything buffalo and under I guess what i'm really asking is does it take elephant,rhino,hippo, or huge buff cleanly/reliably?

How well do you shoot?

I have not used it on the big 5, but my PH in Zim said he was not a great fan of it--it works, but is not decisive enough. Understand, these guys hunt tuskless elephant up close and personal--10 yards is not un common. So you want something that makes pachy sick RIGHT NOW.

9.3x62 is grand, but not for a designated DG rifle.

I have a 9.3x62 and it's a great round.

I would NOT want to be standing face to face, staring at some very large creature, ill intent on his mind, holding that rifle. If it happened, I'd make the most of it, for sure. By design, I'd be packing more firepower...

Just me...

Different strokes for different folks...

DF

Same here DF, were I to ever hunt the Big 5 with my Heym Mauser 9.3x62mm I'd use the 320 gr Woodleighs, both softs and solids and run them to 2400 fps w/ RL-17 powder, bet I could get by just fine.

Gunner

I would not want to use it on elephant as my main rifle. There are much better cartridges. I used a 9.3X74R on 2 buffalo and that is the extent of my DG experience. Perhaps Doctari can weigh in. He likes the 9.3X62 on buffalo and has a 9.3 rifle that some of his clients have had good luck killing buffalo but not elephants.

Aside from the cats, I'd personally prefer something a little more substantial in my mitts. YMMV

Thank you for the responses.

Lke a bazooka or missle launcher ...Just kidding of course. But in all seriousness, I was holding a 470 Nitro express double rifle yesterday and I don't think I'd even feel comfortable with that in my hands. Call me one big wuss I guess ..I know what the 9.3x62mm (with 286gr. Nosler partition) did to last years cow elk and she ran about 20 yards after being hit in the boiler room. I know that happens quite frequently but I'm just thinking cape buffalo or elephant.....Hell no...

Kinda what I was thinking...

DF

well for the record the 375H&H aint exactly the right tool for the job there either give me gunners 500 or 577 nitros

You can sure take one Rattler, you did a fine job with that 303 British double.

Gunner

OK im launching a new topic in re:African guns and I need all your opinions once more,thank you.

The .375 is skookum....

I'll pour up a frosty mug of shut da fook up, I haven't even hunted game in Africa yet.

Gunner

Well then....you won't be needing that .303 double Sheridan keeps telling me about....

Just send it along and we will take it to the Motherland!

Ask this buffalo about the 9.3x62 and a 286 gr TSX.

I'll bet he wouldnt say anything, good, bad or indifferent...



Nice bull BTW!

Not after Ed let all the air out of'em...

I have a very nice 9.3x62 that I like a lot.

Facing one of those beasts, I'd be holding my .404J...

DF

Yes, 'go forth' and slay Young Man.

Gunner

Damn nice bull Ed.

Gunner

Yep, damn nice bull!

While I haven't taken any Cape buffalo with my 9.3x62, on one occasion I was invited (actually encouraged) to bring it, loaded with solids, when accompanying the two PH's guiding a friend on a buffalo hunt. The PH's thought it would be a good idea to have as much backup as possible, and though I was going along primarily to take photos they thought my 9.3x62 might come in handy. I didn't have to use it, but....

On another safari I'd already taken one buffalo with my .416, but by that time my PH had seen my 9.3x62 in action on a couple of the tougher species of plains game and was quite impressed. He suggested I use it on my second buffalo and in fact was quite enthusiastic about the prospect. This wasn't strictly legal but the government game scout gave his permission. Unfortunately we didn't find another buffalo anywhere near as nice as my first one, so the "experiment" was never tried.

I do know, however, from practical experience that the 286-grain Nosler Partition (which is what I would have used on the second buffalo) penetrates far better than the 286 A-Frame on larger game. In fact the 286 A-Frame is one of the few premium bullets I've seen absolutely fail on large game, and once but repeatedly.

I also have a friend in Idaho who's taken two bull elephants handily with the 9.3x62. However, he used brain shots on both bullets, with Barnes solids, not body shots--and quite a few elephants have been taken with brain shots from far smaller cartridges.

Very interesting, that goes double for the Swift bullet, thinkin' my 320 gr Woodleighs at 2400 should penetrate very well.

Gunner

Yeah, I have no doubts the 320 Woodleigh would do fine. As I recall at least part of the reason for that particular Woodleigh is shooting water buffalo in the Northern Territories of Oz, and water buffalo are even bigger than Cape buffalo.

The 286 Nosler Partition is one of the newer models with the partition moved forward. It penetrates VERY deeply, like many of the other heavier Partitions, including the 250 .338 and 400 .416.

That is interesting about the Swift. Used it on two buffalo in both 375 (300gr) and 416 (400gr) with good penetration. Also on Zebra, wildebeest, eland, kudu, with weight retention in the 90s. On the 9.3, our own Hatari loves his and has taken a lot of African head with it. On the other hand our departed member Greg Rodriguez said he'd never use it on Buffalo again.

I've never seen any problem with the 400-grain .416 Swift A-Frame, and it's worked perfectly on the buffalo I've seen taken with it. Haven't ever seen the 300 .375 used on anything that I can recall, but have seen the 9.3 fail repeatedly, perhaps because (at least for a time) Swift made it by swaging down .375's.

I also tend to give less weight to weight retention than many people do. It's only once factor in bullet penetration, and in my experience less important than frontal area. In general, the lighter Partitions will penetrate just about the same as the lighter A-Frames, and the heavier ones, with the Partition moved forward, will penetrate deeper.

I completely agree with the weight retention John, in fact one of the reasons I got away from Swifts is that their mushrooms were just too perfect and nice and round. I much prefer the jagged edges of the TSX including broken petals and the shearing off effect the Partitions have or even better the CEB Non-Cons. On the Partitions, when I first started loading the big stuff, the 375 had been discontinued and the 416 did not exist, the Xs sucked so the A Frame was the logical choice for me and at least in the calibers mentioned, they worked very well.
AS far as Woodleighs, great bullets-just as long as you stay under ~2300 fps. Above that and they just don't hold up.
Then I switched to TSXs and even better TTSXs and that's where I am now. Also, call me weird but I really like cannelures on bullets

If I were to use either my 9.3x62 or 9.3x74R on buff, I think I'd stoke it with 286gr. North Fork SP.

Jorge,

I've seen the 9.3 A-Frames do everything except what a premium bullet should.

The first hit the big shoulder joint of a water buffalo bull. It did make it through the joint but not the rib-cage. It was found resting against a rib, mashed flat and retaining about 50% of its weight. The big problem was the rear core had busted through the partition.

Many people aren't aware that the rear core on A-Frames isn't bonded--just the core in the front end. This is why the rear end of A-Frames often expands, swelling right behind the partition, which also isn't solid. Instead it has a small hole that's filled with a little copper plug.

Saw several other examples of the same sort of failure with 9.3 A-Frames from the same rifle, chambered for a wildcat 9.3 about like the 9.3x64. Muzzle velocity was around 2650 fps, as I recall, which probably contributed to the problems. Have seen A-Frames in calibers from .270 to .30 work fine on various animals from faster magnums, but none of the animals were particularly large, and no heavy bone was encountered. The 400-grain .416's I've seen in action were all started at 2400 fps or a little less, which no doubt helps.

I guess I'm safe then because you'll never see a 9.3 in my hands

FOsteology,

Yeah, the North Fork would definitely be one of the better choices in the 9.3 for heavier game. I've used NF's some and like the combination of solid shank and small bonded lead core in the front end. They expand enough to do some damage, but the mushroom isn't so wide that it limits penetration.

We'll see about that, young Jedi!

Glad to see you back Doc! I figured that comment would flush you!

Hopefully Don Heath will find time to wade in here as he has a lot of personal African experience with the 9.3x62.
My experience with it here in Alaska on big bears has shown that there is very little - if any - difference between it and the 375.

Phil, I don't think Don visit here much if at all, but yes he does love his!

That is what those of us who use it keep saying. "Ponodoro" Taylor summed it in his "African Rifles and Cartridges" by saying in essence the 9.3 X 62 doesn't generate a lot of discussion or controversy because it does its job well and everybody seems to be in agreement on that.

Phil,

If you can find Jorge a bear to try it on, I'll get the rifle in his hands!

John,

I watched a big Masailand buffalo get shot with a 9,3X64 Brenneke with 250gr A-frames...16 times! The PH finished it off with a 416 Rem. The hunter was a pompous sort who maintained his rifle with that combination was more than sufficient, as it had killed a bunch of elk, deer, and antelope.

WHAT, is a ...CEB Non Con...?

I've never killed any of the "big five"....but here is something I can attest to....On my one and only safari, I was up close and personal with elephants.....and they are scary animals.....scary because their immense size is truly intimidating.

These is an old saying....."once you've been amongst them, there's no such thing as too much gun" and that is something I discovered in very short order.....

Is the 9.3 X 62 adequate?.....I can't say....but I certainly wouldn't be there hunting stuff that can "stomp me into a raspberry jelly" using a 9.3 if I could have used something with more authority.

IMO the confidence level one has in his firearm is critical to good shooting when the "rubber meets the road".....and while the .375 H&H isn't an enormous amount more.....it would take that as a minimum to get me to anything approaching a comfort level that I'd require as the threshold. In that light the 9.3 isn't adequate.....but for me!.....There's more to consider than merely ft-lb of energy!

www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/Additional-Research.html

I have 9.3x62 and enjoy it a great deal. However, I would not use it for DG.

IMO, the best choice for the first shot on cape buff is a .416 Rigby and I only hunt elephant with a .470.

Whatever your choice for buff is, a well placed shot from a .4XX (whether it be a .404, .416, .458 Lott or whichever) is your best insurance against having to dig him out of thick cover later on.

For leopard (where legal), something between a .30/06 and a .338 loaded with a partition is a good choice for the first shot.

For lion, a .375 loaded with a partition for the first shot.

For elephant and rhino, a .470 or a .500 N.E. loaded with solids.

I'm currently testing Northfork softs and solids for next year's DG hunt (elephant/hippo/croc/cape buff) in my .416 and .470. Softs and solids in the .416 and only solids in the .470.

For non DG the 9.3x62 is an excellent choice for anything (including eland) under 200 yards. I don't think it has enough velocity to shock a cat's nervous system as well as some higher velocity rounds do and it simply isn't enough gun for rhino, cape buff or elephant. I know that others, some with a lot of experience, will disagree with me. But a 9.3x62 is basically a .30/06 necked up to .366. IMO, that isn't enough gun for the big stuff, unless you enjoy following up wounded DG.

To each his own. I've used it on several buffalo, and seen it used on a handful more. Worked every time very nicely. That has given me great confidence in it.

I would not use it for elephant, and in fact took mine with a .450/400 double.

I my father and I each took big bull Cape Buffalo with the 9.3x62 on a safari in 2012 and I also killed an elephant with mine. I can attest that the cartridge is certainly adequate for dangerous game using the right bullets. Truth be told, you really aren't giving much up in performance or power to the .375 by using the 9.3.

That being said, the cartridge is not legal to use on dangerous game in many countries in Africa that require a .375 caliber minimum. If I were a PH for dangerous game I would not use the 9.3 or even a .375 for that matter. I'd use a much more powerful cartridge like a .416 Rigby, a .458 (Winchester or Lott), or something even bigger if possible if I needed to go toe to toe with elephant and buffalo on a regular basis.

wow that's great stuff? if I may ask, what bullet did you use on the elephant? was it a headshot?

ok.the additional research says the Lott is a good round to me.
thanks.

I think most would agree with that. As a PH, I'd want a "stopper", .450 #20 NE double would be my first choice.

I used 286gr Woodleigh FMJs on the elephant. I took body shots on it and a finishing shot in the head. While they worked ok, I would not use them again. I recovered the final shot into the skull and it was deformed.