like the 450 bpe, 500 bpe 577/500 bpe,500 3" bpe...what were they good for? why call them expresses?they werent high velocity were they? anybody have one? do they have a place in Africa today?
thanks for your input.

Not much as it turns out. They were obsolete in almost no time.


They were for black powder, which is normally a slow and heavy operation that is very effective. But when the gun companies tried to sell "fast," flat-shooting, light bullets, well, they sold, but they didn't work all that well.


Historically, they had their turn. If you like to practice a little history, that's their place.

If your gonna go this route get a 577 BPE and shoot 650 gr Woodleigh rnsp's at 1900 fps with a case fulla FFFG.

Gunner

thanks i thought of that,great idea.i have some 1890's underlever blk powder 12's id like to turn into 577 bpe's but dont know how.

You buy this book and then get'er done.
http://www.brownells.com/books-vide...rifles-on-shotgun-actions-prod26663.aspx

I'll sell you my copy for $35 plus postage.

RC, go down to the Big Bore Rifles forum here at the 'fire, PM Ed Hubel, he can fix you up, plus, we/I play around with small bores compared to some of Ed's creations.

Gunner

he knows his stuff

i might have to get that book from you,let me see how payday goes.that 35$ include questions and tech support?

Yup, plus postage. PM me.

realitycheck,

A friend of mine in Texas has a British .500 BPE double and has used it with no problems on both Cape and water buffalo, using cast bullets and black-powder equivalent loads with smokeless. I am sure he would share his loads if you by chance luck into a rifle like that.

i have an old bp 12 double,i measured my bore at .70,so, im going to be loading 730 grain .69 cal slugs starting out at 100 grains bp and im going to work up as close as i can to 200 grains of ffg. i might even try using fff powder to see what that does. you think that would handle grizzlies(or lions)?

I suspect that'll work! And not just on small stuff like grizzlies and lions....

hey Gunner,i just measure the bore on my bp double 12 and its .70, you reckon itd shoot thos 730 grain/.69 cal minis well? i was gonna try to get to 150+ grains of ffg.should i use fffg you think?

Realitycheck, is your gun a rifle or a shotgun?? A 12 bore double rifle would have thicker barrels than a shotgun and would have been BORED,not wound. Pardon my confusion.

i have an old bp shotgun;underlever double
i was thinking about converting it to a double rifles

Best see how and if the action was proofed before deciding on converting it.

I converted a 16 gauge side by side to 45 colt, and working on a 30-30; but the big issue on handling any sort of pressure, aside from if the action can take it, is that you may need to bush the strikers for smaller primers.

Don't ask me how I know.

Making it black powder certainly helps the cause, but you want to be safe.

You're going to screw around and blow that old shotgun up with 750 grains of bullet and 150 grains of powder. Listen to what ET said.

Just get yourself a Pedersoli Kodiak 72 caliber muzzleloading double rifle and be done with it. When you learn how to run that blackpowder double you will have a different perspective on the feasibility of your little adventure.

what about just getting some blank barrels like for bp rounds such as a 45-110 of around the same diameter and cut/weld to put em on..if they wont sleeve in,just cut the old off,make a platform,and stickweld the bbls on.i only need 50 yards,so dont need worry about bullets crossing. think thatd work?

worked on my colt.



member on the forum made a monobloc from scratch for the 30-30.

BUT, you need to know that the action can take the pressure, and you have the primer issue to worry about.

The book BrentD suggested has all the goods in there.

Not a hard job for a novice. More like foolhardy.

You may find with diameters of barrels and such that a smaller platform - 16 or 20 may get you what you need, and IIRC, smaller bore shotguns handle progressively higher pressure. Keep that in mind as well. The underlevers your sporting may not be the best donor. And then again, they may.

thanks for the help

Hello,

I recently acquired a nice old .500 BPE and ordered the book "Shooting the British Double Rifle", but don't have it yet. Besides, I would rather here of modern day shooting experience and reloading techniques for the rifle.

Any assistance you can provide would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,

Welcome Bill !

Lots of us over in the BPCR forum load and shoot very similar cartridges. I'm sure you can get lots of coaching and steering from the crew.

Sounds like you're in for some FUN !

Greg

Anudder blackpowder recoil freak

Actually, the original .50 express load (lighter bullets) will kick less than your .45 tossing those Moose skewers.

NEAT cartridge !

GTC

Go over to the Accurate Reloading Forums under Double Rifles and or go to Cal Pappas' website. You'll learn a lot there.

Perhaps be the "Express" was related to hitting like a train. Get 550+ grains of slug going 1200 or 1300 fps and aim it at a line of 25 one-gallon water jugs. A hot rod 300 win might do 3 or 4, while even a 45-70 will punch through 23 or 24.

My nice old H & H Royal Sidelock in 500 BPE. .512 bullets weighting 440 grains going 1900 f/s. An old India Tiger gun, with
Maharaja provenience. Factory records state it was born on Nov. 28, 1898.

Just WOW....

Some pics of the engraving and color case hardening done right
Top file cut rib.
Bottom Jones Lever:

Left with gold cocking indicators:
Wood inletting looks like the wood was poured in place.

Right

PD: The name on the plate says it all!

That is a work of art! I hope you get it in the field often. Very nice!

I am just the current caretaker of the Holland. For shooting, I
take a Cogswell and Harrison 450 3 1/4 BPE. The factory letter
states that this was born on Oct. 12, 1897 and sold for 33 guineas. At 8 lb, 14 oz, it shoots 300 grain bullets @1900 f/s to
point of aim at 50 yards.

Left.:
Greener cross bolt:



In original condition

Or I shoot a 26" barrel Trulock and Harriss of Dublin 450 BPE
the same loads.

The prior owner shot warthogs, impala and baboons in Zimbabwe then returned to Hawaii and sold it to me.
[img]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd41/HawaiiPD/IMG_0952.jpg[/img]

The BPE that would interest me is the 577. With smokeless conversion loads, the 577, with a 650gr bullet at 1,700 to 1,850 fps, still generates enough energy to qualify as a modern-day dangerous game rifle. It would be awesome to take a Cape Buff or Elephant with a 115+ year old safari rifle.

Resurrection of this thread is a curious coincidence. In 48 hours we begin our plane flights to Namibia. One of our party will be hunting with a very nice 1895 MacNaughton double 450 BPE.

It very much resembles this MacNaughton: http://www.hallowellco.com/james_macnaughton_hammer_sideloc.htm

More details furnished upon our return.

--Bob