On page 79 of "Africa's Most Dangerous" Kevin Robertson writes: "It's only fault seems to be that the MK II action sometimes fails to eject a spent cartridge when the bolt is cycled quickly."
Anyone know what causes the malfunction? How is it corrected? Thanks.
No clue. Never heard of this before.
The Ruger MKII being somewhat of a Mauser clone, one would think that the faster the action is cycled, the more forceful the ejection would be.
I have more than a dozen MKII's or hawkeyes up to 375 ruger and haven't ever seen an issue. The design uses a mauser type extractor and a fixed ejector. Unless there is something I don't know its about impossible for one not to eject if worked forcibly.
Now if you ease the bolt back, it will just hand the case to the shooter, a nice feature at the bench. But when worked the way one tends to do after shooting at an animal it should heave the case quite a way. In fact I tend to loose many of the cases when hunting because my reaction is to work the bolt pretty quickly as soon as the shot is away.
All rifles seem to work with flawless precision in practice and on the bench.
Their flaws are more noticeable under stress and and while in panic mode. I've seen this plenty of times.
More folks then can be counted will tell you that a Push feed works every time with perfection even upside down. However those same guys have a double feed or poor extraction.
Even the Famous Pre 64 when operated in a panic and short stroked or otherwise manipulated improperly will not provide the reliability expected. One issue I have seen with my Ruger CRF design is that often the cases pup up in front of the bolt face, they do not slide under the claw as they do in my winchesters. A slow and deliberate cycle of the Ruger Action will slide the shell right into the bolt face. A rapid and panicked short cycle of the action, will sometimes push feed the case into the barrel.
On page 79 of "Africa's Most Dangerous" Kevin Robertson writes: "It's only fault seems to be that the MK II action sometimes fails to eject a spent cartridge when the bolt is cycled quickly."
Anyone know what causes the malfunction? How is it corrected? Thanks.
The ejector is spring loaded to pop up into the slot in the bolt body when the bolt is near the rear end of it's travel. Some MKII's will have roughness or too tight clearances in either the bolt slot or the action slot. This will slow the rise of the ejector enough that it doesn't pop up behind the case head.
The solution is to polish the slots in the bolt and action and the sides of the ejector blade to allow it to function freely and properly.
On page 79 of "Africa's Most Dangerous" Kevin Robertson writes: "It's only fault seems to be that the MK II action sometimes fails to eject a spent cartridge when the bolt is cycled quickly."
Anyone know what causes the malfunction? How is it corrected? Thanks.
My WAG is maybe the ejector does not rise (or slide)into the slot as quickly as it should(could)when the bolt is operated very fast, or maybe herky jerky, to keep up with hands operating under a full load of adrenalin.
Any CRF has to be well timed..... I have seen Mark X Mausers that would not kick a case out even when the bolt was slammed very hard to the rear....the hands were faster than the mechanism, but the "problem" was resolved with a beefier ejector and proper timing.
Getting this stuff "right" is one of those little CRF "trick moves" we read about.
I predominately use either a Ruger or Winchester mod 70 CRF. I'm not really of the mind set that they offer something better than the push feed, I just like them. That said I've never had that happen with any rifle. My Wag and what's been reported to me is in the rush of killing an animal people tend to short cycle their bolt. Just about any rifle will have a problem with that, although I suspect the push feed would be a tad more forgiving. Key to the whole thing is muscle memory from a standing position and working the bolt through a full cycle.. It's also the reason I don't go back and forth between long action and short action rifles like some do. I prefer the long action and try to be conscious of going through the exact motions each time. I think people that arbitrarily use short actions then go back and forth to long actions are more likely to experience this phenomenon.
Thanks everyone for your inputs
m. Stevenson: I believe I remember this discussed somewhere on a Ruger or gunsmithing forum. I am going to follow your directions prior to my departure for Zim. Thanks for replying.
bobmn, you're most welcome.
This was a problem with my dad's M77 Magnum rifle in 416 Rigby.
I forgot to mention also, is a stronger/ better fitted spring might help along with polishing.
Like BobinNH said, it's just a timing issue.
I'm thinking I heard about it on accuratereloading.com's gunsmithing forum.
I've read the same from another source. I wonder if this is just the magnum actions since we don't seem to hear about this with the LA and SA rifles?
I had a 243 MKII that would do that, took the gunsmith at Carters Country all of 2 minutes to fix. He was taking a smoke break and seen the rifle fail, (it was brand new) he said give him a minute with it. Took it inside and it has never done it again.
I've never had a problem with a Ruger M77 or win model 70 CRF, but I don't short stroke the bastids either. I've short stroked my lefty 870 wingmaster on doubles before, but recovered in time to take the bird out before it hit the ground
. Furthermore, you can't always blame malfunction on the rifle. I've seen some pretty funny/stupid things happen to guys who get buck fever. Just sayin... Raybass, this post isn't directed at you buddy...
fgold767: found this on the ruger forum. Thanks for the help.:
What you describe is common to Ruger rifles due to the weak factory ejector spring and the development of a bit of dust, dirt or dryness on the ejector.
Easy fix.
1} Remove bolt and with a fine jeweler's file, file a slight bevel on both sides of the edge of the ejector groove on the bolt. Doesn't take much, just a bit, then...
2} With same file, reach into the action from the rear and while holding the ejector UP with a screwdriver, file a slight bevel on both sides of the ejector blade. Again, not much needs to be taken off.
3} Clean all filings off with a toothbrush and replace bolt. You are good to go.
If you choose to see the problem in action before doing the fix, twist the bolt as you are ejecting the round. With a little "practice" you can duplicate the failure to eject just to say you got it to botch on-command as it were.
Ruger needs to put a wee bit of bevel on these surfaces and they also need to install a heavier ejector spring from the git-go. For a better version of the same "Win 70" type ejector {sporting a harder spring}, see a modern CZ550.
I do not recall how stiff the Win 70 ejector srings are and I don't own a 70 so I don't know if they are better, but I have heard of similar failures in Win 70's {pre-64} so maybe they need the same treatment at times.
Ruger .416's do not have a monopoly on the original poster's problem. CZ550's in 6.5x55 do ditto and some will not {as original Mausers, also} close on a round dropped into the chamber, so you are really screwed if the round gets ahead of the extractor/bolt and you then try to close the bolt on it.
On my 550, I modified the extractor to cure the drop-in problem but sent the gun back to CZ to be rebarreled to 9.3x62 to cure the feed problem. CZ's have a queer extractor, too, so I should note that I replaced the extractor with a stock GI-Mauser-98 job and now all's well. Feeds upside down, sideways-bothways and even right side up!
BSA that 243 shoots factory ammo very well, I killed one nice 8 point with it that fall (never seen a deer slammed like that) and gave it to my daughter. 2 years later her first game was a running coyote at about 20 yds. I was very proud of her, that coyotes nose plowed a furrow.
On page 79 of "Africa's Most Dangerous" Kevin Robertson writes: "It's only fault seems to be that the MK II action sometimes fails to eject a spent cartridge when the bolt is cycled quickly."
Anyone know what causes the malfunction? How is it corrected? Thanks.
My guess is by "cycled quickly" he means short-stroked.
That would be true of any action with a claw extractor and standing ejector.
I've sure never seen any issues with extraction/ejection.
edit: oops, guess I should have read all the responses. Oh well. Still a consideration so I won't delete my response.Tom
Actually I suspect it has nothing to do with short-stroking and plenty to do with the fact that a person can and often will manipulate the action faster and harder when things get exciting in the field than they ever do on the range or in practice. Perhaps part of that has to do with the fact that we generally assume that ammo spent not trying to "hit small" is wasted ammo. In reality it makes a lot of sense to shoot as rapidly as possibly in practice just to know what can happen. It also helps develop the concept of flinging the brass and having the chamber ready for a follow-up.
I do know that a bullet loaded long for a "slight" snug kiss can result in powder disabling the "standing" (inappropriate term) ejector when the cartridge is unloaded without being fired.
I do know that a bullet loaded long for a "slight" snug kiss can result in powder disabling the "standing" (inappropriate term) ejector when the cartridge is unloaded without being fired.
Good point! Some folks never consider, they may have to ditch a dud round....(hey, it happens).
Can you even get a round to kiss in a factory Ruger that is loaded to max mag length?
Anyone that has a barrel throated to suit the mag would seem smart enough to realize the above?
Anyone that has a barrel throated to suit the mag would seem smart enough to realize the above?
You would think so....but I wouldn't bet on it.
There was a pair of guys on here working with some rem clone action or another with a small loading port; they were extolling the virtues of their OAL and how accurate it made their rifles....one commented that loaded rounds would not clear the port on ejection.
Neither one thought much of the fact...they seemed fine with it.
Can you even get a round to kiss in a factory Ruger that is loaded to max mag length?
Anyone that has a barrel throated to suit the mag would seem smart enough to realize the above?
Yes.
Ruger doesn't build their chambers around a particular bullet, so yes, some combinations in some chambering can be loaded out far enough to kiss.
No, I do not hunt (anymore, nor have I for many years) with ammo that 'kisses' the rifling. I did make the discovery I noted with a brand new rifle a few years ago. I had not found the MOAL for the particular bullet I was using, so seated one and tried it. Snapping the extractor over the rim forced the bullet into the rifling and the case and powder were all that came back out.
The ejector was fouled as a result and the stock had to be removed in order to get things working properly again.)
Can you even get a round to kiss in a factory Ruger that is loaded to max mag length?
Anyone that has a barrel throated to suit the mag would seem smart enough to realize the above?
Yes.
Ruger doesn't build their chambers around a particular bullet, so yes, some combinations in some chambering can be loaded out far enough to kiss.
No, I do not hunt (anymore, nor have I for many years) with ammo that 'kisses' the rifling. I did make the discovery I noted with a brand new rifle a few years ago. I had not found the MOAL for the particular bullet I was using, so seated one and tried it. Snapping the extractor over the rim forced the bullet into the rifling and the case and powder were all that came back out.
The ejector was fouled as a result and the stock had to be removed in order to get things working properly again.)
Amen!! "Kiss" has no business in a hunting rifle. I know this will piss a few idiots off, but who gives a [bleep].
There's a web page I can't find right now that had some stuff on PH competency requals. Fast, save the client, shooting was part of it. A few besides the Ruger couldn't keep up with a seasoned, proven professional hunter plying his trade.
Bobmn: I also have never noticed a "failure to eject" problem with any of my many Ruger 77 MK II's.
My conclusion is - no problem and no "correction" needed.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
VarmintGuy
If someone could buy you for what you know and sell you for what you THINK you know, they'd have money enough to buy an Echol's rifle and go on three safari's.
lol, but "ouch" anyway.
I've never had a problem with mine, but then I've never run mine really hard. Sounds like some testing would be in order before going out after anything toothy, and doing a little file work as described would be time well spent. One thing is certain; that ejector is a certifed PITA when using the Hornady OAL tool.
Good information here. Thanks for posting it.
One thing is certain; that ejector is a certifed PITA when using the Hornady OAL tool.
Ill second that.
All rifles seem to work with flawless precision in practice and on the bench.
Their flaws are more noticeable under stress and and while in panic mode. I've seen this plenty of times.
More folks then can be counted will tell you that a Push feed works every time with perfection even upside down. However those same guys have a double feed or poor extraction.
Even the Famous Pre 64 when operated in a panic and short stroked or otherwise manipulated improperly will not provide the reliability expected. One issue I have seen with my Ruger CRF design is that often the cases pup up in front of the bolt face, they do not slide under the claw as they do in my winchesters. A slow and deliberate cycle of the Ruger Action will slide the shell right into the bolt face. A rapid and panicked short cycle of the action, will sometimes push feed the case into the barrel.
Good post and very true.
I posted Don Heaths piece on the Hunting section. For Rugers, he found that the spring for the ejector but be stronger/stiffer to throw the case clear when worked at lightning speed. The ejector is still rising while the case passes over it and fails to get kicked out. Also he recommend some minor filing (if needed) to the ejector raceway to make sure a tiny burr or raised spot isn't interfering with the ejector. Slow down a bit and it works flawlessly.
Now I'm going to have to experiment with this. As a rule. the first this I do when I get a Ruger home is polish it up, including the ejector slot. Then a trigger job. I will fill the cocking piece, boltway and lugs up with a baking soda toothpaste and start working the bolt until it feels right.
When you clean all the goo out and lube it a bit, it feels like butter. That may be why I have never seen this.
Or have I? I'm kind of wondering if this may happen on the bench and we don't think of it as an issue. I have never had a failure to eject in the woods.
I used to spend time practicing "pinky open, thumb close" with the rifle at my shoulder. I don't think about it much now. I guess it's muscle memory.