Edited for privacy of hunter and guide, seems to gone off the rails from OP. Thanks for feedback.

Hunts are about creating experiences and memories....not gross tonnage.

Sounds like it was very successful.

Very well said.

Not many people on the planet can truthfully claim they shot a brown bear at 10 yards, regardless of the bear's size.

It makes for a good story and great experience, I think.

He is not unhappy but it was a tremendous expense, $25k+ all in, travel and two weeks away from home and work, that's a lot of money to shoot a young bear.

It sounds like it was an adventure! It’s good to know your friend and the outfitter are ok.

Work friend on his trip hunting was driving his jeep. He hit a spike elk. Not sure of the details, but he was allowed to keep the animal.

His son mounted the antlers on some old car license plates and presented it to him as a trophy on his birthday. Great memories regardless.

He now boasts "I've killed more elk with my car than you have with a rifle."

If your "friend" didn't want the bear then he should not have shot it and let the guide shoot it. If he wasn't an Alaskan resident he had to have the guide with him and a problem/aggressive animal is the guide's responsibility unless it is actually attacking/mauling someone. Same thing applies in Africa, let the PH sort out the problem animals because if the client shoots without being told to then they are on the hook for the trophy fee.

If your friend didn't want to shoot it, then why did he?

Dont know what percentage of brown bear hunters go home empty-handed after spending that kind of time and money, but sounds to me like his outcome was much better than that....

Yep.

He coulda been Treadwell'd...so he's got that going for him...which is nice.

Each individual has a responsibility when hunting on a guided trip. The client does not have to shoot the bear if he does not want to. It is the guide's responsibility to protect the client. It sounds like the hunter was talked into shooting the bear and is now experiencing regret.

The guide may have a wildly different story.

SSS.

LOL

This

it depends on the area... but also, when clients are fussy about the size of their bears the success rate falls pretty fast.

Not really regret, he was happy with the guide and would hunt with him again. It was clear in the short discussion that the guide did not want to shoot the bear and deal with DLP paperwork and my friend had not real option at that point.

Poor baby...... Is this a case of buyer's remorse? He experienced something that the large majority of hunters only dream about simply because they can't afford what your buddy could afford to do.

You and he both need to put your big girl panties on and quit defining a successful hunt based on animal size. Is he expecting part of his money back based on what he wanted to shoot versus what he did shoot?

Sheesh....!!

In the heat of the moment, they really didn't have much time to sort out the "what if's". At ten yards and coming, I guess he thought he had run out of options.

he is not unhappy or expecting his money back, if you had read the thread before interjecting you may understand. He had a good overall experience, just not what he had anticipated. My post was more about what would be considered protocol, not a complaint.

Poor baby......

IMO opinion that is a successful hunt and he should be proud of that bear. He's buying the hunt, not a bear.

I've guided for bears in various parts of AK and had a bear actually come into the tent with me and the hunter during the night. It wasn't being aggressive, but we had to try really hard to make it go away, it returned and so the hunter shot it. It wasn't a big bear either, but entirely legal. My hunter said it was the best 20K he ever spent.

Some people...

It was and he is...

That would not make me want to hunt with that guide again.

Problem bear
Guide's responsibility to take care of it - client isn't there for that.
Guide decided he didn't feel like taking care of the paperwork.
Guide talked the client into spending 25k and 2 weeks to shoot a bear he didn't want to - all because the guide didn't want to do paperwork. (lazy at that point - client paid 25k - paperwork should be included in that price. )

As the client - I'd shoot to save my life but it sounds like he shot because the guide didn't want to do paper work, not because the client was a snack - I'd never hunt with that guide again - EVER.

Apparently they had SOME time - to hash out the fact that the guide had no desire to do paperwork, to convince the client he should shoot it on his tag (which he did NOT want to do) so they had some time to discuss and bargain.

Your friend should have shot the guide. The bear would have ate around the blood-shot meat...

Would have been a good time to have had some bear spray.

Warning shot didn't work?

Better to have a small bear rug than to become a bear turd.

The guide could have hired a secretary to do the paperwork for 25K and have plenty left over you would think.

"WWPD": What would Phil do?

A buddy of mine did many solo walk in sheep hunts, he’s killed double digit numbers of full curl rams. One year as he walked into his hunt area he was charged by a very small brown bear that later was determined to have some kind of disease. After hooting and hollering to try to get it to leave he was forced to shoot it with his sidearm with no chance to get to the rifle that was strapped to his pack.

He was a little upset because he had already walked 12 or so miles from the truck and being it was a week or two before brown bear season opened he had to skin it and pack it back to ADF&G. So his sheep hunt was more or less blown by the time he got to Fairbanks and waited for Monday to check it in as a DLP.

After talking with a few friends he decided that it wasn’t such a bad deal. After all how many guys do you know who’ve killed a charging brown bear at 12 feet with a 2” barreled 44 Special?

Sounds a little "sketchy".

don't want to shoot ...get behind the guide.

sounds like a good idea but they did not try that.

my thoughts exactly!

DLP paperwork takes about 10 minutes, FWIW.

What did it square at and size of the skull?

I don't know the details but I believe it was under 8'

Young bears can be curious and having them come within 10 yards is not unusual. If the client had decided the bear was unacceptable there was no reason to stalk it. Stalking a bear you don't want is sort of like kissing your cousin.

I have had numerous great clients over the past 42 years and the one I just finished hunting with was one of the most fun and reasonable I have had the pleasure of guiding. He was fit and well equipped and had hunted peninsula brown bears 5 times previously with other guides and only taken one small bear. He told me he wanted a nice boar, something over 9 1/2 feet, and as the hunt progressed was content to pass on mature 9 foot boars. Although we saw larger old boars we were not able to make stalks on them and he has rebooked for another hunt.

The end result is that the hunt belongs to the hunter. The guide is hired for their knowledge and advice. It's the hunters choice whether to take it or not.

Yup. It's a business transaction. If the guide talked him into it just to avoid paperwork that was awfully unprofessional. I hope $25k wasn't a lot of money to the sport.

[quote=Sitka deer]
it depends on the area... but also, when clients are fussy about the size of their bears the success rate falls pretty fast
[quote]

That’s hunting. EVERY guide I ever hunted with said the same thing. End of the day, you squeeze the trigger you made your choice.
For me
I would rather come home empty handed.
We don’t know how this bear hunter would have felt if he came home empty handed.
I have been on one unsuccessful guided hunt for mountain goats. I had a chance on a small billy , but he was small and would have fallen off a cliff hundreds of feet. And a nanny I could have legally and easily killed. I wasn’t shooting a nanny no matter what. No regrets on my part.

The end of the day, he didn’t have to shoot the bear.
No matter what he and the guide talked about,

BS. Don't buy that. If the bear was a real threat then there would be nothing to discuss since the guide would have been firing. Since the guide didn't shoot then your "friend" decided that was the bear he would tag. And I saw your post about the guide not wanting to bother with the paperwork and that is BS as well. A guide would much rather do that paperwork than do the paperwork on an injured client! Most areas with the big bears have a built in buffer quota for a problem animal or two and the game dept would be accommodating if it was an emergency kill and was on the up and up.

I once was hunting along the Limpopo River in RSA along the ZIM border and we were chasing a herd of blue wildebeest trying to get the herd bull. We were in a brush thicket and busted a pair of breeding white rhinos. The female ran straight away from us and the bull came right at us. Not charging, just getting out of the area. Rhino have lousy eyesight and tend to go in whatever direction they are heading. This bull was coming straight at us and looked like a battleship coming through the brush. Trophy fee on a rhino was $55K at the time so there was NO way I was shooting that thing. At about 15 feet it saw us and veered off into the brush. I asked the PH how close he was going to let it get and he pointed at a branch on the ground that was exactly 2 paces away and said when it go to that branch it was going down.

If a professional hunter or licensed guide cannot handle the situation at 10 yards then they shouldn't be in that job. My bet is the guide wanted to wrap up that hunt early for some reason and this gave him a legitimate reason to do so.

Thanks Phil! The bear came into camp, they tried to put their tents between themselves and the bear, throwing rocks and yelling. Not sure what else they could do, bear kept coming and was shot at actually 9 yards as he tells the story. It was a beautiful bear and my friend had a great overall experience, just not the bear he had hoped for. I was mostly curious on what would be appropriate in a situation like that.

Bragging rights to a large animal is not a good enough reason to hunt them and then shoot shoot an animal you can't be happy with because you think your entitled to a bigger one. Mb

It's easy to arm chair this one but it all happened very quickly, they only had a brief minute to discuss options but the guide made it clear that he did not want to shoot the bear and my friend (his first bear hunt) felt like his options were limited, he shot it under ten yards, in the chest, coming straight on. As I mentioned in my original post, my friend is not unhappy with the hunt or the guide, it was an overall great experience.

no entitlement expected..

I see it this way, if hunting allowed for catch and cull like fishing, people would take a bigger animal and let the little one go. I don’t see a reason to change the desire for a better animal just because it’s hunting rather than fishing.

This post drips with envy.

And it isn't a good color on you bayourover

Thank you.

Young, pre-pubescent bear are very curious but easy to scare off. They also have beautiful fur and over the years I have had a handful of clients who actually choose to shoot them. It's hunting. The client I just guided showed me a photo of the bear rug from his previous hunt . It was a beautiful rug but he knew he wanted something much bigger.

so if the guide didnt want to do the DLP paperwork did he have some concern that the investigation may have determined the bear did not need to be shot?

Sort of my thought as well.

The whole thing smells mostly like the guide simply wanted to get out of the field and told his client to take a bear the client didn't want to take at that point of the hunt to expedite it under the guise of "I know you paid me 25k but man, paperwork. I mean, who wants to do that?"

The above paragraph makes no sense to me.

He would hunt with the guide a second time??

You're questioning what he did on the first hunt, And I would be too.

Seems like it was the guide's problem, doesn't it?

Not Phil
But.....
If the hunter didn’t want to shoot the bear he should have been off to the side slightly and behind the guide. Puts the ball
squarely where it should had been.

Based on this post you're a fool. I am not trying to "arm chair" this. I even noted a case where I was in much the same situation with a rhino in Africa. You have admitted the guide had NO INTENTION of shooting the damn bear! Therefore your friend made the decision on his own to fill his tag with a bear that WAS NOT A THREAT because if it was a threat then the guide would have shot it! Your friend decided to fill his tag with a smaller yet fully legal bear. he booked a bear hunt, the guide obviously put him onto bear and he filled his bear tag. Exactly what didn't go "as planned?"

I really don't understand whatever point you are trying to make. In your initial posts you seem to make the point your "friend" was forced into taking a bear he didn't want and when experienced hunters pointed out that was BS you sure seem to be singing a different tune. From your posts I'm guessing you have never hunted dangerous game have you?

But there was going to be paperwork...

That's what bothers me - rather than take care of the issue, the guide conned the client into burning his tag* rather than do the paperwork. He get's another 100% success on the stats, no paperwork.

*not commenting on if it was necessary to shoot the bear at that time. 10 feet is really close but I'd think that if the bear was a real threat at that time, the guide would have been shooting because it was his butt being threatened at the same time - paperwork be damned. Save your own skin.

Isn't 9 yards a long way to have to shoot a bear in a self-defense situation? I'd like to think an experienced guide would have me positioned behind him in a situation like this.

Fuggin paper work blah blah blah.

Some of you dumbshits need to go hunt in an enclosure.

Fred Bear Wept...

"Warning shot" is a fallacy when it comes to bears. They don't mind loud noises. At all. IME. Then you have an empty chamber for a time. Short stroking in all the excitement is not unknown. Or a feed failure. Or needing "just one more round". I don't actively hunt bears, but that doesn't mean one won't hunt me. I want all the marbles I can get, if need be.

It is not unknown for Kodiak (and Afognak?) brown bears to come to the sound of a shot. Deer gut piles (and sometimes the whole deer) are easy meals, courtesy of deer hunters, and the bears have learned.

Trust me, facing down a 3 year old coastal brown bear at 40 feet in the glooming with 2 rounds in a .280, while rather bloody from a hurriedly field-dressed caribou back up on the ridge above makes one wish for a fully loaded magazine. I wasn't going to use one on a "warning shot" then or now. Or the next morning with a fully loaded rifle and the bear on the gut pile 50 yards down the steep slope from the carcass (lightly bear hit).

Cussing the bear out worked both times, as it did not in the OP's post.

On the other hand, "warning shots" can make cervid hunting real sporting.

I agree that it was the guide's responsibility to handle the situation if the client didn't want to to shoot that bear at that moment, but the client did make the decision to shoot. He has a better than average hunt/hunt story/ "trophy" out of it. Apparently happy with both guide and bear, so congratulations to him.

Size does not a trophy make. It is a memento of the hunt. Or should be, and he has a good one.

Several years ago in the Kotzebue airport, I saw a NR hunter who had taken a 2- 3 year old grizzly. He was right pleased with himself, and he had an absolutely gorgeous blue/silvertip pelt. I believe that was the bear's first year alone . Looked to be about twice the size of my 90 lb Lab. Maybe.

That is the prettiest bear hide I have ever seen, by far. I would not have shot it (size among other considerations) , but it was his hunt, his decision, his nickel. On the plus side, the taxidermy fee and space needed for a full body mount were lessened. I have no doubt he considers that small bear to be a real trophy, as he rightfully should.

I've never even seen another silver-tip, but my decision would have been to let it walk, and perhaps live a few more years. Neither decision should be considered wrong or regrettable.

I saw a BEAUTIFUL silver tip in the Alaska Range.
Huge sow with 3 cubs.
Only silver tip I ever saw.

I bet he regrets starting this thread

I'm not seeing the envy that you think that you see.

Every guided hunt that I've paid for have all been great experiences whether I have shot the animal that I imagined that I'd shoot or not. Over 20 years ago, I spent less for a likely comparably priced hunt at today's prices, and I left without a trophy animal. However, the experience was no less gratifying than guided hunts where I brought home "the meat".

I have no need for envy. Maybe envy exists in the eyes of someone who's never experienced enjoyable hunts unless they killed what they thought was worth the price that they paid for the complete experience. Either that, or maybe they've never experienced a paid guided hunt themself..? And in using the term "complete experience", as I used it, it does not mean a guaranteed kill to me.

For me, the hunt is the experience. A trophy animal is icing on the cake. Maybe that is not how you see it, but I can live with that without it affecting my life in any way. That includes no envy at all on my part that some total stranger who knows nothing about me or what I've actually done and experienced in my life reads into my post.

Great post, IMO............

Who was the guide/outfitter?

If the guide had shot the bear as a DLP, could they have continued to hunt for the clients bear?

As I read it, the original post is not primarily complaining about the hunting experience, but questioning how the friend-client should have handled the situation.

And, taking the original post at face value, it seems to me that the guide wasn't 100% forthcoming with his client on who should do the shooting. Sounds like the client, being inexperienced, was a little too trusting of his guide, and the guide took advantage of that. Once the client said he didn't want to shoot that bear, the guide should have stepped up and handled the situation himself without further discussion.

My guess is that the guide didn't feel he could justify shooting the bear since they could have vacated/abandoned camp to the bear, but, he also didn't want it to ravage/damage his camp - so, have the client shoot/tag it.

JMHO

Things don’t always go exactly as we planned them to go but that’s part of the thrill. Nobody is guaranteed that they’ll shoot a 10’+ bear and many times they don’t even get a shot at all so I’d consider your friend lucky, lucky that he got the bear rather than the bear getting him, lucky in that he had a safe trip since Alaska can be unforgiving and indifferent especially when you consider all the variables involved in a brown bear hunt in the wilderness of Alaska but most especially he’s lucky that he had a great time and made priceless memories 👍.

As far as expenses go....Nobody is guaranteed a 10’ bear and many hunters go home empty handed. If it was the hide of a big bear that he was after and wanted to be guaranteed a big bear he should’ve just bought a hide. The Alaska fish and game department auctions the hides of animals that they’ve “confiscated” so that would be his best chance at getting a hide big enough for bragging rights. 😉

Ultimately the decision to shoot or not shoot that bear was squarely on your friend’s shoulders. If he didn’t shoot the bear and it kept coming (not a fake charge like MANY close encounters are) then it would be the guides responsibility, and your friends to some extent, to stop that bear. He chose to shoot it to avoid the hassle and paperwork that a DLP requires.

On the bright side.....your friend had a great time, harvested a brown bear albeit not the one he wanted but a brown bear nonetheless, he had a safe trip, he saw country that few get the privilege of seeing and he made memories that will last him a lifetime. 👍

I do hope that your friend is able to get back up there and harvest the bear that he’s been wanting but if not I’d still consider him lucky to have experienced the “real Alaska”.

He said the guide worked very hard and that he would hunt with him again. I imagine no guide wants to deal with DLP paperwork as it "could" be a poor reflection on his ability but not necessarily, I'm sure he'd like to avoid such matters whenever possible.

It was a really beautiful bear, young but nice coat.

I have no idea what you are talking about, you obviously have not read the entire thread so calling me a fool is a bit out of place

Good post.

I've been pressured by a guide to take game I didn't want. It was a gemsbok with a horn broken off on one side about 8" of the tip missing on one side. We argued back and forth which one to take because I thought there was a bigger one with it. He kept pushing me towards the other. He insisted I shoot the other one and we had spent hours stalking. I should not have had to pay full price for a cull animal. I believe dangerous, damaged, or injured animals are the guides responsibility when possible.

Bb

It was a beautiful bear indeed and I know he is happy to have it, my point being that he ended up shooting a bear that he and his guide had looked over at a few hundred yards and decided that it was not what they were looking for. Suddenly the bear ends up in camp and he shoots it.

AcesNeights, I think you summed it up pretty well...

No, calling you a fool is spot on. You tried to post a topic slanted one way and when you got spanked you tried to twist it another way. You're a fool. Deal with it.

He decided to shoot it and he's happy with it - fine. I'd think that I'd do a ton of mental gymnastics too to convince myself I shot a bear I wouldn't normally after spending 25k to do so. I'd make sure I was "happy" too.

What others (and myself) are saying is he never should have had to shoot the smaller bear. Unknown just where in the 2 weeks this happened but either the bear was a threat or not.

If so - the guide should have handled it. GTFO with the paperwork excuse. If the bear's a threat, the paperwork isn't even on your mind. It's about saving your skins.

If not and the guide simply talked the client into shooting something smaller to "fill his tag" but gave a good story about paperwork and such - I'd never use that guide again. Hard to reconcile "he worked hard" but wouldn't fill out paperwork. Wouldn't or was scared to because things weren't exactly as the story is being told? Someone mentioned it's about 10 minutes to do. Hardly seems onerous.

Wondering if the story was concocted to excuse a small bear the client/guide talked themselves into to make it a "successful" hunt.

If I had 25K to blow I would’ve got one the guaranteed NR Kodiak bear tags. You get ahold of the guide he tells what tag to put in for and you are all but guaranteed a Kodiak bear tag. Why would one be slumming it out in Cordova for a “big” bear is beyond me. Or better yet head to unit 9 either have waterrat guide you or 458win mag.

Everyone is after that magical 10 footer. The bear I shot last year on kodiak beautiful bear squared 8 1/2 feet I wouldn’t trade that hunt for another one. I was with a damn good buddy, we sat in pouring rain glassing, we sat on this bear for several hours waiting for it to make its move. The stalk was a very memorable one we had to run 1/2 mile to cut it off. Great great hunt, my bear 106 inches wide 96 inches long. Not making this about me, but I grew up reading about kodiak and Alaska in hunting magazines. I grew up poor, food stamps was our way of life, lived on a Indian reservation. Kodiak and alaska were just a dream only way I was hunting those places were through writers in hunting magazines. 2020 my dream of hunting kodiak became a reality I thank my good bud for going, my wife for putting up with me and calling her for last minute stuff when i was down on kodiak.

A valid observation!

No one is immune from making bad decisions, especially after you have dreamed about it for years, spend a lot of money, traveled to vallhalla , worked hard and are understandably excited. Looking down on a trophy you somehow expected to be 3-4x's as large would be a disappointment. But it's called hunting and a good education is typically expensive.

Let me think this through. I am a guide. I have a client. We see an adolescent bear that we pass on when we have a choice. Later, we just so happen to set up camp near where the young bear was. Quite by surprise, the adolescent shows up in camp an does what adolescents do. If I can influence my client to put down the aggressive bear, I get to go home and chill. Can someone explain to me what the problem is?

That's part of the guides job, IMO.

Here in Idaho you're allowed to keep it, any time of year and without using your tag. You just have to download a salvage report to fill out and send to the IDFG. Hunters fought for years to get this in place. We hated seeing all that good meat, road kill or not, go to waste. Usually the damage to the car will more than offset the value of the animal.

Yes

A great, informative post by MAC. And it's coming from someone who has obviously "been there and done that".

I'd rather choot a bear intent on.eating me than one that wasnt.

As a guy once told me about my little 4x4 satelite bull, "Any bull.with a bow is a good bull."

And mature brown bear boar is a good one.

#cornrows
LOL

Just tagging for future reference. I've learned a lot just by reading this thread. Expectations of clients and guides and prices. Unfortunately, for 25k I think a guided brown bear hunt is forever out of my price range...but it's nice to see that someone else can enjoy the outdoors and expertise of others.

Unfortunately it’s the only way that a non-resident can hunt brown bear or grizzly bear in Alaska. You have to pay the big bucks to pay an often non-resident guide to take you out for BB/grizz. 🙄

I been a black bear guide for going on 48 years 99.99% usually run at the sight or sound of man, its that .01 % that could ruin your day. One day a bait was not going to be hunted so I went in to do my job. Carrying 2- 5 gallon buckets full of bait got to a point I could see the bait and there was a good size bear on the bait. It looked my way and slowly walked off. So I walked to the bait opened the 55 gallon drum and started put the bait in like I've done for the past 6 weeks. Before I got the second bucket in the barrel the bear came running towards me I threw the bucket at the bear, it didn't even slow down. I jumped behind the tree it was chained to pull my 45 ACP and shot the bear between the eyes at 2' second shot was to the top of the head as it went pass me, coming to a stop dead.
My ears were ringing from the gun shots then my phone was ringing it was my wife waiting at the trail head about 1 mile away for me to come out wondering what the shooting was about. I was lucky had a bear tag, not quite the bear I would have shot but lucky I had won the fight.

When the wife and I were skinning out the bear she said "well you will never have to worry about that happening again" told her "I'll still carry a pistol when in the woods"

I could easily see Teal's reasoning to be spot on. Especially with 25K and two years into it.

We've probably all been there at some point, standing over a dead critter that wasn't quite what we we had in mind, guided or not. You see justified excuses for taking a "lesser" animals all the time; it was the last day, the weather was turning bad, knee was acting up, had to return home early, I just wanted some meat, animal was unique in some way even though it was young, etc...

Perhaps, maybe not. The actual hunter hasn’t said anything.
And the guide didn’t give his side .This is all second hand.
Not a critique on the op.

I think the lesson here for ALL of us on a guided hunt is if you’re looking for a certain size trophy, prepare to go home empty handed. If you can’t go home empty handed and be ok with the hunt, that’s on you.

If you’re on a guided hunt with an animal in front of you, that you have no intention of shooting but it may/may not be a dangerous situation , put the guide up front. By Alaska law, it’s his job.

I didn't read it the way you did. I think we both agree the guide did a stellar job.

Communication is key

But with this caveat

Had more than a few clients over the years tell me they wanted to go big or go home.


Only a handful really meant it. Vast majority didn’t want skunked & I don’t blame them.

Trouble being you can pass on some pretty decent animals waiting for mr big

Then with 2 days left some would take what was available which might be a lesser animal than what they’ve already passed up.

Lots of them were ok with that strategy but many were not, as you could tell by body language & demeanor.

It seemed they blamed me for not finding mr big

Sometimes the worst person you ever bs is yourself

Sometimes you might spy mr big on a ridge a few miles away. Sometimes when that happens you know your client is incapable of making that stalk. And even if they can it’s a crapshoot whether that critter will be in the same zip code when you arrive there. You use up a clients physical abilities on that stalk & he may be unable to do a less strenuous stalk for a matter of days

I wasn’t there so don’t know the details. But as Phil noted young bears are very curious, Tis why many of them don’t live to become big old bears

I’ve had a few clients very nervous due to our close proximity to bears, but there’s a difference to being close to a bear & close to being mauled.

My best bud & I went to Kodiak to get him a big spring boar. Seems the big ones had mostly come outa dens & went up & over the snowy mountains

We were within 20 yards of a young boar sub 8 footer He didn’t go to Kodiak to kill that bear, so he passed & went home without a bear. But he didn’t go home empty, the memories of that hunt are cherished to this day by the both of us.

We were both in damn good shape & hunted hard, lots of glassing, lots of hiking, fair amount of cruising in a raft w 25 hp outboard. Despite our efforts we couldn’t find mr big

Hunting is somewhat like fishing, go to a bass lake where a record bass has been taken, you may catch some decent bass but taking a record involves some luck no matter how good a fisherman you are.

Only caveat is there’s no catch & release hunting.

I2legit, great post. I'm guessing if this bear showed up last day, my friend the hunter would have been happy to have it.

So do you know how many days "my friend the hunter" had left on his hunt when he shot the bear?

"I’ve had a few clients very nervous due to our close proximity to bears, but there’s a difference to being close to a bear & close to being mauled."

That crossed my mind, as well. Good point.

What was the bear's body language? it doesn't sound like the bear was too aggressive, perhaps just curious, or camp-food oriented, or set on going from here to there without caring what was in his way.

Could the guide and hunter move aside? If they were in camp and the bear actually started doing damage to survival equipment, that's a legit shoot right there by the guide. DLOP (defense of life or property) is a state-recognized legitimate reason for killing a bear (or moose, etc), off the ticket.

Assuming they had cell phones on them, a short video of the action dispels any doubt for the paperwork.

Lots of unanswered questions on detail.

I wonder how the OPs friend knew to make up the part about the guide not wanting to do the paperwork.

Did anyone save the post or link ? I missed it.

Excellent post.

Me and a couple buddies went on our first guided hunt last fall for elk in Montana. None of us had ever hunted elk before. We came home empty handed but had a great time and have enjoyed planning for our hunt this fall.

This thread has been a great as far as educating me on expectations for a guide. Our guide last fall was inexperienced and I later learned he had only killed on elk in his lifetime. I liked him, but it was there I learned that in some ways, I may have been better off hunting myself and relying on my own lifetime of hunting experience. To be fair and honest, I spent almost zero time researching outfitters. I saw what looked like a fun and affordable hunt for me and my buds. And it was. Our real life elk hunting knowledge was expanded from zero, to what it is now, very little but a start.

I have killed enough critters to know that feeling of remorse for killing something that was young, or whatever. But that’s part of hunting. I’m always thankful for that food and for the experience. I’ve never hunted bear either, but I’m sure if a 7 or 8’ grizzly walked up on me, I’d bust his ass. I might be e little embarrassed when my guide tells me the bear wasn’t as a big as I thought. I’d be more hurt if I paid $25k, but I don’t have that money to spend on a bear hunt.

As the story reads, I think the guide was looking to end the hunt and send home a successful client. The friend seems to have learned a lesson. $25k. Ouch.

An Outfitter is only as good as the guides they employ.

Great thread and responses by a number of very experienced bear hunters and guides. If you want a big bear you had better learn to judge bears and be prepared for to go home skunked. Do your homework and figure out what area has best genetics and choose your guide carefully. Unfortunately for too many bear guides (not all) the first words they learn when they start guiding are “big bear, big bear” and the naive hunter knows no different. A lot of really good bear guides but bottom line is pass up the small ones and only you know what a trophy is to you. You may be be just fine with a 8’ bear and have the hunt of a lifetimes. No matter the situation don’t let the guide tell you what to shoot. When the chit hits the fan just hope you chose your guide wisely and he takes control. Happy Hunting

+1

I did an absolute ton of research prior to my Kodiak hunt.
Long story short, I actually passed up my 10 footer when I first saw him because I wanted to be absolutely sure it was an oversized brute, my guide was on the adjacent hill when my bear walked past me at about 50 yards.
My guide hustled back to my location and wondered why I seemed so frazzled.
We went down to look at the bear's tracks in the snow and my guide asked me incredulously "You passed that up?"😳
We got the bear, but I really thought I had blown it.
I was prepared to leave with nothing in pursuit of a monster.
Fortunately it all worked out for me.
The odds of going on ONE hunt and shooting a monster of any species is extremely slim in most free range situations with few exceptions.
I got lucky.
I trained hard, researched extensively, shot routinely and tried to be the best hunter/client I could be.

257Bob, your thread brought out some good information from those who contributed to it, especially those who have guided for bears and those who’ve hunted them.

Good stuff.

Sal that’s a great way to increase your luck.

I’ve seen your Bruin on here, he’s a beautiful old boar preserved forever. Happy for ya bud.

He had 7 days left...

PaulB, the hunter and the guide had a direct conversation about it. I can see why a guide would not want to shoot a bear if there is any way to avoid it and I can also see why a professional would not want to file a DLP as it could reflect poorly on his professional abilities.

I find it interesting that many who have responded are trying to make this out to be something more than it is. The hunter is my dearest friend, our kids grew up together, and we have hunted together ever year for 37 years and counting. If he said X happened than it did, he is a man of integrity and character. His objective for the hunt was a representative mature bear, that's not what he ended up with but he is not unhappy and he was very satisfied with the guide, his expertise and effort. They question of "protocol" is mine, not his. The situation developed quickly and didn't leave a whole lot of time for problem solving.

Protocol is the guide should have shot a threatening bear - DLP paperwork or not. End of story.

Instead the guide talked your "dear friend" into shooting a bear he didn't originally want as a trophy with 7 days left to hunt - all because he didn't want to do paperwork.

What reflects poorly on the guide is the fact he offered the "excuse" of paperwork as to why the client should shoot the bear, to apparently, the point of not doing anything and forcing your friend to do it.

If the bear was a threat - it's the GUIDE'S job to end that. Not your friend and certainly not because the guide didn't want to do paperwork. The DLP reflects NOTHING on the guide's professional abilities. Especially in the context of "I'm not shooting this bear because I'm not doing paperwork. You shoot him on your 25,000 dollar tag, with a WEEK to go, because I'm not" and then putting the client into the position of feeling he MUST shoot it.

Protocol on every guided hunt I've been on or my family has been on - guide never forces a client to take an animal they don't want to. The purpose of a guide is to get you opportunities - not to force you into a situation you may not be happy with.

The fact your friend had 7 days left of a 14 day hunt makes me want to know the guide's name so I NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER line up a hunt with him.

If all hunts went exactly as planned we would quickly get tired of hunting

Teal, I get your point but I don't want to be too hard on the guide here. As much as I take the hunters word as gospel, I'd also be curious to hear what the guide had to say about it. Either way, the bear was beautiful. As I state previously, the hunter liked the guide and his effort and would hunt with him again.