What do you think the chances the gvt confiscates PMs when the fiat system collapses?

My guess is 100%

The gov't might ask that folks turn them in, but I would think confiscation is impossible as a practical matter.

They're going to confiscate 401k's first but will float it with "we're taking it only from Bezo's, Gates etc" to see the appetite. No one will say boo and then everyone's is gone under the guise of "you'll get it back - just from us, not your 401k account"

Ask Dutch what was done in The Netherlands. There’s the template for our IRA accounts and with only a few keystrokes per account.

The government dislikes any form of value that allows personal exchange(except art). That is why they hate crypto as it exists today.

They want to control the flow of economic transactions. So I think it's possible, but not because they want the metal.

I'm just not sure what the fiat collapse will look like. I really think the great reset is about building a "soft landing" from a debt collapse all at the expense of individual freedom. I believe the central digital currencies will be the vehicle they will try and use to reset world debt. A flip from one fiat currency to another.

I have no idea though how exactly this is going to play out.

I think anyway people can barter outside the next system will come under attack.

As Mike Maloney said well in his best-selling book, Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver:

“Confiscation all comes down to this: the government makes the rules, changes the rules, and enforces the rules. Though it lacks the moral right, it can create legal authority. Though it lacks the constitutional empowerment, it can turn a blind eye to the Constitution… The Constitution did not stop the government from taking people’s gold in 1933.”

There’s a lot more on deck here than just PMs but your point is well taken especially knowing that the past too easily becomes prologue and there is a history of confiscation to go by.

Confiscation would be way too expensive and time consuming. Barring the sale would be the way they would go if at all. Which would still leave investors the option to sell privately. Now finding potential private buyers might become hard to do.

As far as Crypto goes...... It's here to stay in some fashion or another. El Salvador has made BTC an official currency, I see other countries following suit soon. There are Crypto ATM's in both America and Europe already. Coinbase has a Crypto Debit Card. Do I think Crypto will be the same in a few years as it is today? No, it will continue to advance, change, and get stronger. BUT!!!!!!!! The governments will figure out a way to regulate and tax it.

Goldman Sachs recently got into the crypto markets as have other large investments houses.

Crypto is perfect for gvts to track every transaction. They would love it...

Yes Sir as has a bunch of strong Hedge Funds.

No it is not and why a lot of Governments are opposing them. You might want to read up more on them.

If it comes to that, it will be past time to invoke the 2nd.

I uses to buy mostly silver because historically the government didn't really go after it. The problem is that it gets bulky and heavy. It's hard to store and transport. I've been buying more gold lately but I worry about loosing it every time I take it boating.

Bb

I believe gold and silver would be worth a bunch more if the government didn't have a history of criminalizing the ownership of gold. And they got by with it (FDR in 1933). And right away devalued the federal reserve notes they used to redeem the outlawed gold.
Speaking of federal reserve notes, it won't belong before they are gone. Your only legal means of exchange will be an account that is accessed by moving balances around. Stand by.

Consider me ignorant. I'm not a big follower of financial stuff.

What is a "PM" in the terms you folks are discussing?

Precious metals.

Well if you read how the various alphabet agencies can collect information, you would understand how easy it will be to gather all your financial transactions using digital currency .
Combine that with the quote above “Confiscation all comes down to this: the government makes the rules, changes the rules, and enforces the rules”

Nothing beats face to face barter for anonymity.

The government is going to confiscate PM Phillip Morris stock or the post meridian? Even Google does not know what PM means in this context

Well most with an IQ over room temperature would know. And if you don’t know, you probably are not invested in them anyway....

LOL

AAPL = Apple
GOOGL = Alphabet class A shares
SAFM = Sanderson Farms
BX = Blackstone

Now tell me again what I should know?

Again Google Alphabet does not know what PM means, but then I doubt that they are worth the $2,697.09 that my shares are worth per share

Alphabet

Did you know what PM meant in this thread?

Do I need to know in order to purchase ownership in the companies that I listed?

Do you think that I want to think like you?

AAPL = Apple
GOOGL = Alphabet class A shares
SAFM = Sanderson Farms
BX = Blackstone

Again PM is the stock symbol for Phillip Morris International

PM

But then I see the world more like Warren Buffet than most people do.

So you don’t have room temperature IQ.

Thanks for your input.

AAPL = Apple
GOOGL = Alphabet class A shares
SAFM = Sanderson Farms
BX = Blackstone

Next

Then again
Maybe you do have room temperature IQ.....

Sheesh I left out my defense segment RTX.

Silly me, now tell us more about PM

Raytheon

I don’t know about anyone else, but boy am I impressed.....







More or less

Sheesh I left out my defense segment RTX.

Silly me

[/quote]

I don’t know about anyone else, but boy am I impressed.....







More or less
[/quote]

Now if you could just ebducate me as to what PM means in the context of this thread I could be whole again.

LOL did I mention that I own BAC too, which makes me a part owner of a whole bunch of mortgages as well.

POS Pelosi said, back when the muslim was in office---" those 401's are our money, we will just go take them"

You believe she doesn't think that way now?

Not going to happen because the dumocrats own them too.

Just think

Fact or fiction?

There isn't a Dem alive that doesn't think that whatever fascist dictator they put up there and the rules and things that come from them don't apply to them. The reason they all clamor for this is they believe they're different, they'll be part of the ruling class and not part of the peasantry.

Also - Dems tend to believe whatever they're told - not great thinkers, if they were, they wouldn't be Dems so if Pelosi tells them "its for your own good" - they'll believe it and keep voting Dem. Sorta like how the poor have for generations but nothing changes for them...

Do you believe what FOX news says? Because it's all BS you know

I haven't watched Fox news since 2006.

Try again.

Great you do not watch FOX, I stopped last year. However the fact is that the deep state controls all media so nothing is real and that the deep state owns retirement accounts as well.

Wow, arrogant much? I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I had to read a bit to figure it out, too.

I follow the Warren Buffet model which is that if it isn't a stock ticker, that it does not matter and PM is the ticker for Phillip Morris International



PM

Always interesting to see someone wade into a conversation that's been going on and say they're all idiots because he doesn't understand what was being talked about.

People obviously did and it was reiterated in the conversation but THEY'RE the idiots because you couldn't keep up.

Actually I never did learn redneck Ebonics

But I know what this is, though I have better monitors

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2-HiQzCYAAKt8Y.jpg:large[/img]


NYSE

It's ok - we all know you're AKPENDUDE's sock puppet.

Really not sure why everyone needs me to be someone else. Kind of funny really when a supposed adult uses the term sock puppet and tries to sound bright.




[Linked Image]

I am very aware of how the agencies collect information.....

I don't think you are aware how Crypto works. Yes if held in your wallet it can be tracked, not easily but can be. Where the tracking would really come into play is once drawn on.

DeFi is was designed just for that very purpose, lack of traceability. Also more than likely the only reason why BTC is still king of all Crypto. As it is the slowest and least cost effective of todays existing Crypto's. But anonymity is it's strongest trait. Second is that DeFi is not governed by any government or central Bank.

In Short nothing is untouchable. Crypto will become regulated in some form or fashion or another. But even that regulation will be more tilted to the withdrawal side than the deposit and holding side. To a degree (limited access to funds) you will still be able to hide a good amount for now.

They pulled it out of the wallet of those hackers on the pipeline - they can pull it out of your wallet...

Warren Buffet sees the world as a Dictator. He has made a lot of people a lot of money no doubt, but none more so then himself. His investment strategies are not without flaws. His main principles are very basic. Basic usually works continuously, but never the most efficient and effective. The thing with Buffet is nobody points out his mistakes or flaws. Something that comes with a proven track record. Even if your records aren't spectacular.

I said that the wallet is a weak point. Although can be backed up. What happened to the Hackers was not from any Government, it was from the system which validates the system.

My sibs and I inherited a small amount of silver when our parents passed. No gold except jewelry. The only PM I have "invested" in is Pb . . . and I will give it up one 500 gr ingot at a time . . . roughly 10,000 of them.

But Buffet will still be viable after the next market crash when crypto vanishes and the government blames crypto for the crash and starts investigations that ban crypto completely.

Silver is only a precious metal in certain colonial coins and the silver eagles being sold on TV are worth their weight in silver at the moment and perhaps a dollar more if you can find a sucker dumb enough. Pb is lead by the way, if it was precious my tackle box would be in a vault

My point on Buffet has zero to do with Crypto.

Crypto is Global so it would take every Government to topple it. Not going to happen. Crypto is the way of the future like it or not. Like PM's made way to currency! You have a choice to invest or not into any type of investments you so see fit. I am not selling anyone anything. When we get stuck in the past, we die a cruel death, but it is a choice. I hate many things about the advancements in our lifetime, but you either adapt or get run over............

Silver has millions of applications, It's value will remain as long as society remains.

A lot of WB’s moves don’t help unless you’re in his tax bracket. He loved munies because combined with his tax bracket he made out. Where the return for others would not.

Nothing is more discrete than me pulling something out and handing it to you for a service or product.

If you think crypto is the safe place invest in it.
That’s investigating. Risk/reward.

I’ll agree to disagree on it MCH

That's why legislation is being evaluated this week to try and impose reporting of transaction details so the ruling class knows everything you're doing. Leave it to them to ruin anything that empowers people or keeps big borther in the dark.

Reddit boys exposed who the SEC is looking out for

LOL silver is currently 82 cents per gram to gold's $58.29 per gram.

LOL I bet you were one of the people to bet the house on coinbase that has been falling since it's IPO. Crypto is not the future, it is also not the present or past. But don't be sad Madoff suckered better people than you The future is quantum encrypted wireless computing, but you enjoy your fake coins while you can

Yep, their hedge fund buddies and the treasury bitch.

That isn't the point. Nobody was talking about price. It's about the value/need/desire for an item. Silver will always have a demand. Gold will too they are both used extensively in electronics.

I don't bet the house on anything. I make well on the scraps I pick up. I am well diversified and sitting in a great position, while being afforded to live a comfortable and very active lifestyle. I might not have all the toys others have, I am more into traveling, adventure, the outdoors, and shooting a few different disciplines. You do what works for you.

100% for sure! But we all knew that all along. We accept it.............

Silver is not however a precious metal and it's price is far too stable to make any money off of it, in fact if it were valuable no one would want to sell it, yet the opposite is true

This is true and the point I was making.
A lot of WB’s moves don’t help unless you’re in his tax bracket. He loved munies because combined with his tax bracket he made out. Where the return for others would not.


I can do that with Crypto right now!
Nothing is more discrete than me pulling something out and handing it to you for a service or product.


I think it is a viable option right now and timing is great to make some great returns if you do your home work, as with any other type of investment.
If you think crypto is the safe place invest in it.
That’s investigating. Risk/reward.

Those that just follow the masses usually get slaughtered.

You are looking at it with blind eyes. There are plenty of people (not me being one) that have made plenty of money off of Silver. As there are more then a few ways to invest in PM's!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/precious%20metal

Um, that is a literal "[bleep] it, I'm watering the tree" moment.

There's a lotta people that would realize that, if everything you've worked your life for is taken, at that point, well, the juice IS worth the squeeze.....

They will take it all right... after they crash the market... then they will tell you capitalism is too risky and we will honor your account and control it.... and you will get 2% interest and limited withdrawals.... all for the good of the "collective"

Carson City silver dollars are one, providing that they are not graded and the seller does not know their real worth and that the CC is not glued on

Dustyone,
Then simply don't invest in PM..... problem solved

Buy low, sell high, be patient in between. Simple

Simply complicated right Norm?

Listen to those that can.... my advice

Similar happened in The Netherlands.

Invest within your means and it is super simple! Don't for get to always Do Your Own Homework!

The only hard part is patience, just like hunting.

An honest question MCH, with all that's transpired how do you know the info you research is correct?

Buy and hold may be an outdated strategy?

I guess the same way you do research on anything else and accept it as correct. All investments have a little bit of a gamble built in. I see things moving away from proof of work, to Proof of Stake.Which makes it a lot harder and costly to corrupt the Blockchain. Personally I have been watching what the big investment houses have been doing. Not that they are clean, but they are paid on performance for the most part. I think they are very cautious moving into the Crypto sector. I think more importantly is to not get greedy and try to push it, that is where I see most people make fatal errors in any means of investing. I recover my initial investment and let the rest ride, I am not looking for the BIG HIT. But at the same time I'll ride with house money.

People told me I missed the market here in the Bitterroot in real estate yet I did my research, tracked trends, searched out buys that showed upside and was patient. I am not killing it but I have made some money on a parcel of land and built equity with other peoples money in a Duplex. That Duplex has appreciated over $130K in six years. I'll take those scraps all day everyday.

There is no get rich quick or easy way. It's work, a grind, and time consuming but pays off. There is Risk in everything, it comes down to how much risk you are willing to accept. Investing within your means should dictate your level of risk. Invest what you can afford to lose.

One last thing Crypto isn't just a currency. Major corporations run on Blockchains. So there is value outside of currency.

Thanks.

But don't forget that laws don't apply to them.

Bb

There never was a problem as my tech portfolio is sufficient and unlike metals tech keeps getting reinvented. 20 years from now computers will not be identifiable from what we have now while an ounce of gold will still be just what it is.

You probably think that gold appreciates and it does, until you put it up against Amazon, Google or Apple


Gold price 30 years

Now if you invested 1000 dollars in Apple in 1980 that 1000 dollars is now worth 430,000 dollars.

Conclusion gold sucks as an investment

But you enjoy pretending

Nobody would argue that recent history supports your argument that tech stocks have been a better investment. People who invest in PM often do so out of concern that the sh*t might hit the fan one day and all stocks become fugazi. I have a lot of $ in stocks and fear that it's just a number on a screen. My retirement is based on numbers on screens. If all goes well, I'll have a great retirement. But there are scenarios where $2M in Google stock disappears.

Plus it's nice to pick up a heavy bar of gold or walk around with a couple silver eagles in your pocket.

You also said before that you would be lucky to find anyone to buy your PM. Go to ebay and filter gold and silver coins by 'sold' and see what they are going for. Those that were able to get through on the US Mint website (lucky me!!) and bought 2021 Morgan Silver Eagles when they were released made 2-3X their investment in minutes.

Pretending? do you always make hasty assumptions?
I don't consider pm an investment in the traditional sense. I see it as a hedge to preserve wealth with no third party liability.

Thanks MCH for taking the time to answer my question. I am still trying to wrap my head around the whole block chain thing. Seems the government will only let it go so far.
As for researching stocks I am also puzzled how these "zombie" companies that show no profit can trade for billions? guess that is why I stick with real estate that I own & control.
So far so good, despite the crazy stuff the government is doing.

If you think you actually own that real estate, try skipping a property tax payment.

Gold ...3% compounded annually
Guitars...3% compounded annually
Guns ...3% compounded annually
Real estate ... 6% compounded annually
Stock market indexed fund....9% compounded annually.
Tech giants, formerly IBM and AT&T, now MSFT, FB, AAPL, GOOG, AMZN, TSLA, NFLX, ect... 20% compounded annually
Your house @20% down payment..... 30% compounded annually

Matthew 25:14-30
The Parable of the Bags of Gold

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

Lol.... yes I understand that.
It does cause some concern... but I have a plan... raise rents.... inflation... raise rents... rinse and repeat... the rub comes when you can no longer raise the rents.
Therefore a hedge is required.... kinda like a plan "B"

All those calculation hold true.... until they don't... what leads you to believe things are going to continue on as normal in the future? normalcy bias?

I wasn't knocking you. Real estate is one of the best investments I am aware of. I was just making the point that one never really owns it.

I have normalcy bias so bad I don't believe in climate change, Keynesian economics, nor gloom and doom investing.

I do believe what the bible says about holding pm. I have my money working.

In Genesis it says that a man's wealth is measured by how much gold, silver, land, and head of sheep and cattle he possesses.

Gawd, it's becoming impossible to read this forum anymore. I'm ignoring 1/2 the posts on this thread.

This shows Microsoft stock making 21% per year over the last 32 years

Meanwhile Gold has done 4.5% over the same period time.

Well gold is a hedge against inflation.

Also during the market crash and Great Depression, gold was stable.

Gold/silver are poor investments, but as intended, gold still makes sense to have in a portfolio. YMMV

A 100 dollar investment in Apple at IPO is now worth $67,564.00 as of the writing of the article that I found.

PS Gold does not prevent inflation nearly as well as Apples, so you can keep yours

PSS If gold is so valuable and such a great hedge why is Rosland Capital selling as much as they can?

https://gold-kit.roslandcapital.com...vNMONlJJxZQ9F_hau7q3fY3nb2xoCOnwQAvD_BwE

I am still trying to wrap my head around the whole block chain thing.
As am I. I understand the basics but it is a very complex thing. I learn a little everyday.

Seems the government will only let it go so far.
For sure! The government will find a way to get their cut and control.

guess that is why I stick with real estate that I own & control.
I really like real estate, there is very little downside to it.

Personally I feel anyone that has a balanced portfolio can afford to put a small amount into crypto. There isn't a stock that has made the run that crypto has. I wish I was on that run but I wasn't. I have since gotten on board and done pretty good. I am holding on and in hopes of another good run. We'll see!

You have a lot to learn about PM's. I don't invest in them nor do I hold any. But I certainly have a better understanding of them than you do.

Not Alphabet, Apple or Amazon can match the returns of Monster or Tractor supply. Just to show you Tech isn't all you make it out to be!

It’s already time

After the next crash when cryptocurrency vanishes the government will enact strict regulations and ban some of what exist now and the brokerages encouraging crypto will be held accountable in some fashion

Try again Tractor supply is up 13,327 percent since IPO and Apple is up 291,100 percent since IPO.

But you keep pretending

How many Tech stocks are on here?????

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/best-performing-stocks-of_n_409739

https://www.investopedia.com/articl...rming-stocks-last-20-years-gmcr-celg.asp

Oh and my favorite stock made the list!

https://decodingmarkets.com/best-performing-stocks-20-years/

Notice the last on this ones list???? Hmmm

https://www.coinspeaker.com/guides/the-top-6-best-performing-stocks-of-the-past-20-years/