The other post got me thinking...

Three possible answers:

1) No

2) Yes

3) I have never actually shot one

I am just curious...

No.... just distracting

No.... just unnecessary.

Never shot one, but a cranked up 45-70 is painful at times and isn't as powerful. I have neck problems and had to sell my 45-70 because I couldn't help but crank them up a bit when I reloaded. A .458 would have to have its moments.

Not through a rifle, no.

Don's .458 WM pistol is likely something I won't shoot, at least not without watching someone do it first.

Eventually

3

.458 WIN, not a big deal. Now the .470 Capstick M70 is a little sporty.

LOL... Jimbo and I were shooting his 35 Whelen pistol a couple of years ago... Roxy was furious at all the noise. That thing was a hoot... I could have shot it all day. Crazy fun.

I haven't shot Don's .458 WM pistol either, but I would.

Noah vaporizing a bowling pin...

Just makes me smile ear to ear every time...

Cash;
Good afternoon my cyber friend or evening out your way by now I see, I trust the day has been passing smoothly.

If I might, I'll add 4) It depends upon the weight of the rifle and design of the stock?

I've written in the past about a pair of shooting, reloading and general gun work mentors that I was blessed to have who were firm disciples of St. O'Connor.

One of them who we'll call Dave, had a Browning High Power .458 that I recall as being very light, with a fairly tight curve on the wrist as well. Again Dave's been gone 20 years here Cash, but as I recall shooting that Browning, the bolt knob and the trigger guard would whack the knuckles on the shooting hand mightily. While I only shot it a few times, it defied all my efforts to grasp it sufficiently so it wouldn't do so.

The other buddy who we'll call Willy, had a Ruger 77 Tropical I believe they were called way back then? It had a really heavy barrel on it and the stock might or might not have been a standard Ruger 77 tanger type, that I don't recall now, sorry. If memory serves it was close to 10lbs all up as well.

Shooting it was a much more pleasant experience.

Therein lies my experience with the .458 as far as shooting them goes, admittedly a small sample and not more than 10 shots total with both unless I'm forgetting a few range sessions now.

All the best to you all and good hunting.

Dwayne

I find a 375 ultra worse. The 458 is more of a big push.

Bb

Had two, a Win Mdl 70 push feed and a strange Enfield that went to 458WIN here many years ago.

Neither was bad to shoot. I dislike a 338 WM far more.

Awesome!

I shot one once. I had to ask my buddy if I still had my front teeth. For some odd reason they went numb after the shot and stayed that way for about 30 minutes. That's not one I enjoyed shooting.

I will agree with that Dwayne... fit is mighty important.

A good friend had a Ruger #1 in Lott... It was quite the handful for many folks (I reckon it fit them wrong maybe).

I am considerably taller and it fit me just fine... it was a blast, but still nothing I wanted to more than 10 rounds at a time.

Chaz sold the #1 and switched to a Model 70 I think... and the fit was way way better for him he said. He loves that caliber.

I haven't shot his 70 yet.

Only ever shot one, a Ruger No. 1. I didn’t think it was as bad as my Marlin GG with hit rod .45-70 loads, probably due to stick design and weight differences.

I’ve never shot one.

500g in the 458 has some recoil, and has been known to crack a few stocks. 460 Weatherby is a tad worse, cracked a stock with a lead sled.

Here is the thing... load development, sighting in on the bench sucks... shoot it off hand and it's no big deal. Women and children shoot mine and they all think it's fun

No but with a caveat. If the rifle weighs at least 8 pounds it is more of a heavy shove. If the rifle weighs less than 8 pounds it can be pretty brutal especially if the stock design is poor. I found the 416 Rigby to kick harder than the 458 Win but the 450 Rigby wasn't bad at all. Never shot one of the big WBY mags so don't know how they compare.

The only one I ever shot was a Ruger #1 African and I didn't think it was bad at all. My 12 gauge Ithaca 37 Deerslayer with Brennekes kicked worse.

Yep....
My second gun as a young lad was an H&R single shot 12ga. it would kick the snot out of you... the 458... not so bad

Below 500gr, not too bad.

Another possible answer, yes after the 8th or ninth shot.

shot ruger #1 a few times, not my idea of fun but way better than the 378 bob! that thing just shook the world!! it did kill the heck out of frogs and turtles.

The BSA 458 I had for a while wasn’t bad at all. The 7.5 pound 460 Van Horn I helped a guy work up loads for was terrifyingly brutal.

Prezactly!

Probably.

off a bench yes has plenty recoil , standing and shooting not so much. my 20 gauge Savage 220 slug gun is much worse

Never shot one

My 458 Lott s
Loses some appeal at about round 8 or 9 off the bench

Agreed; I've only shot the 458 in 2 guns. both M-70's with decent pads.............no problem, really, big push, but I've shot 338's & top loaded 45-75's with 400 grain bullets a fair amount. Neither equal the 458, but both jolt you in light rifles.

The gun that I shot 3 times & will never ever shoot again is a 378 Weatherby.............just wicked fast, vicious recoil that will hurt you if not very careful.

MM

CashisKing: Yes I find the recoil of the 458 Winchester Magnum (and the 460 Weatherby Magnum!) very disconcerting and headache inducing.
Takes me a couple of range sessions after shooting "the big boys" to get my "trigger squeeze" back on my Varmint Rifles.
Do NOT actively seek those big guns out to shoot anymore.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yes, a CZ with the European stock. A bit brisk from the bench but not bad standing. A good friend has a CZ in 416 with the American style stock and after shooting my rifle he found a Euro stock for his. Likes it much more. Killed deer, hogs and a nice Cape Buff. Not nearly as bad as a single barrel 12 ga. with slugs

Fired a old M70. Recoil was manageable but it hurt like a SOB when I didn’t hold on to the pistol grip as tightly as I should have with my RH and my middle finger smacked the trigger guard.

Never shot one.


My buddy made his own buttstock for a Marlin 45-70.
We brain stormed it first and I suggested a fat buttlike
A-squared used on their rifles.
That coupled with a Decelerator made it nice to shoot with
his hot 525gr loads. Pushy, not punchy.

I had a 458 built on a Mauser action. I also thought of the recoil as a "big push" compared to some other big guns I owned or shot.

Back about 1976/1977, me and another guy decided to do a Cape Buff hunt in South Africa
At that time, SA was have a population explosion of Cape Buff and you could kill all the tags you could buy!
We both got a Ruger M77 African in .458 Win Mag. We didn't get to SA, but we did take the guns out and shoot them one day.
I ran almost a full box through mine. I'm a recoil weenie and I found the recoil quite acceptable. More a heavy duty "shove" than a eye crossing, tooth rattling sharp jolt.
I bought a Ruger M77 in .300 Win Mag! I'd rather tickle a mare mules tail that shoot that thing again! THAT mutha HURT!

No, and I was shooting a Belgian-made Browning with a pencil thin barrel that weighed 7 lbs. Easy.

Worst rifle I ever shot was a REM 700 BDL in 8mmRM. Couldn’t keep two hands on the gun. Worthless for follow up shots.

I've onwned 2 Ruger 1's shot one, at 30 years old recoil was tolearable, at 64 no way.

I was 21 when I excepted a bet to shoot 40 rounds, I did it broke the skin on my shoulder.

The steak was great, but someone else cut it, though by end of the meal the whiskey dulled the pain.

I don't know. Out of what? The most painful rifle I ever owned was a lightweight 25-06.

Uncle of one my buds had a .458 he deer hunted with in the 70,s.
Think it was a ruger 77??? don't really remember now or cared at the time.
More of a talk about brag thing is what it was anyways.
Them old guys never killed any deer anyways to drunk and hungover to get up.
Even when they was young they didnt kill many deer either.
And the ones they did were pure stumble bum GFG luck..

Then they made a big to do if they went out " hunting" for 2 or 3 hours.
With a six pack of course.

No, bought my second one a few months ago, should never have sold the first.

I didn’t find the 500NE too bad either.

Depends on fit and balance of the rifle more.

It will sure as hell never be a problem for me.

I had an Interarms MK X. Great rifle but I preferred hot 45-70 style loads in it. Yes the 500 gr. full power loads were tough after 3 or 4 from the bench.
If I remember my favorite load was 66.0 grains of IMR4064 and a 405 grain flat point. Sadly, it went down the road. I needed an air compressor worse than I needed a 458 win mag. at that time.

Mirrors my own experience exactly.

No.

Have shot two.

One a bolt gun. Ran nearly a box stout of 500 grain handloads through it from the bench. Not hateful at all.

The other, a 14" T/C Encore handgun. Again.........not horrible. But kinda like a good smack in the palm with a rubber mallet.

I agree with others here in that it produces more of a hard “push” rather than a snappy hard “kick”. One thing I enjoy about it is the wide range of loads you can come up with. Some offer hardly any recoil at all I compare some to a 12 ga shotgun. I’ve shot 338’s, the 340 Weatherby and others that have substantially more recoil.

Not as painful as it’s big brother, 458 Lott which I have.

I consider the recoil from a light 12ga shotgun, shooting a 1 oz rifled slug, "painful". And yes...I do it all the time.

.458 is twice the fun.

No.

My .458 is a M70 that is 2 yrs old. Has a Leupy 1.5-5 on it.

More of a big shove than anything.

My buddy has both a 378wby and a 416wby. You can have those, they give me a migraine

Shot a Model 70 in .458, I thought it was STOUT, but not all the way into painful. A friend's .375 ASquare same way, stout, not devastating. My OTHER buddie's TC Encore synthetic stock, .375 H&H? Yes. That hurt...

I’ve never shot the Winchester version but do have an RSM Lott. It’s a big gun and heavy for the round. It’s a handful but isn’t abusive at all. Compared to an 835 with 3.5” turkey loads it’s a pussycat to shoot. My best friends daughter shot my rifle once when I had it out. She isn’t big at all and I was genuinely worried it would hurt her. She fired a 500 grain DGS round and turned around smiling. I think my two 300 Weatherbys hurt more than a real elephant gun.

Nope.

I've been around and shot two. One was a Ruger Express with factory ammo. Its owner used it for blasting muskrat and carp in the Kishwaukee river. It wasn't bad at all.

The second was irfubar's custom Mauser. I don't like Mausers but that rifle is truly awesome. He had some custom hand poured kryptonite schit loaded for it and it was a true pleasure to shoot. I'm not sure if I'm the woman or the child he referenced in his previous post.

Compared to what?

I've never fired a .458 WM but have fired two factory rounds out of a .460 Weatherby Magnum and found that to be surprisingly tolerable.

No. The 458 Win Mag was my second centerfire rifle when I was a kid. I shot everything in AK with it. I doubt I was 130 lbs. Don’t pull it away from your shoulder while twisting to shoot a running deer though… you will be disappointed.

I discovered medium and big bore in my late 40s...

Sure wish I had before...

Probably the #1 thing I tell younger shooters... "Don't waste 20-30 years to discover that medium and big bore is some of the funnest and most accurate shooting you will ever do."

.458WM can be loaded at full performance...

As well as...

ALL THE WAY DOWN to .45 Long Colt performance.

Pic below is some "throw away split neck 7mm RM brass" that I cut off at the shoulder. I use 325 grain to 730 grain bullets... many bullets are from cast lead.

Bullet jump does NOT effect accuracy in medium and big bore... Some of my guns have an inch of jump...

Im interested.
Can you post a pic of the loaded/cutoff rounds?
This is a bolt gun Im assuming?

I do something similar with 338Lapua.

In the '70s my father wrote an article in the American Rifleman IIRC about a 458wm he had shortened for use in tight cover here. One aspect included loading it with shot in brass cases for camp meat. As a slender teen I shot it often with all sorts of loads. The old walleye tournament trick of stuffing the butt with lead balls when shooting off the bench made it almost pleasant. A little cast made it enjoyable.

For the most part no, but it depends on the firearm. Had a Browning (sako action) Safari grade weighing 7.5 lb and that was pretty brutal. On the other hand, my Model 70 is quite tolerable and my 450NE (458 equivalent) made to fit me, is quite tolerable, even off the bench. Still, if you think an 06 recoils, a 458 isn't for you.

Working up loads in my Ruger 458 Lott on the bench is painful. Real hard to avoid getting a flinch after about 20 rounds.

Off hand it's not bad.

The .338 W. M rocks me much worse than the 458 does, both in M70s.

Sure...

These are my heavy subs (730s)... They actually suck on accuracy and destabilizes at 35-50 yards (more like a tumbling 55 gallon drum at that point). But they are super quiet, dang fun to shoot/pull out at the range for all the WTF gawkers.



You can also cast lead into a .45acp casing if you want a jacket (minor swage required)... and say stuff like "my bullet is actually a former cartridge".



I assume you are doing the 510 Whisper?

Jeff did some 1,050 grain bullets for his.



I trim my brass by "vaporizing" with these... it is VERY VERY fast... the anneal is a bonus

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122356024484

I am also doing an AR-10 and a 10" SBR...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12448930/458-catastrophe

PhotoSUCKit killed the pics...

Single stack SR-25 mag is the Current project in que.



.458 Lott chambering (first round... slug or shot)... followed by COAL 2.800"

There is a lot of experience on this web site which is why although I read through it a couple of times a day, I don’t comment very often, as usually someone comes up with something sensible, once you learn how to “sift read”.
If you seriously want to learn more about the .458 Winchester and its versatility compared to the usual scribes interpretation, there is a fixed thread on the .458 Winchester located in the Express Rifles and Big Bore thread. There many contributors that shame the professional writers in terms of experience and factual knowledge.

My contribution is based on that missing link not covered by anyone so far. We all know loosely used generic information such as rifle weight and stock design and there are many examples of people believing some lighter recoiling and less powerful cartridges recoiled more fiercely in their interpretation and there is merit in these beliefs but for a particular reason……..
The missing link(s) in this conversation (actually 2) is firstly recoil experience, in that if you have worked up to heavier recoil levels over a period of several years these step ups, or increases in recoil levels, become more accepted as they are expected. But the primary void in the argument is your own personal body shape.

We all grew up with the generic BS from the usual writers informing us that a straight stock classic design like the Ruger recoils straight back and is more controllable than the more (at that time) flamboyant Monte Carlo Stock design, ala Weatherby. This is both truth and BS at the same time because although a straight design does in fact recoil straight back, it becomes a pile driver in a rifle like a Ruger depending on your body shape. The Weatherby by contrast, becomes a better design and reduces recoil substantially if you have this same body shape. This is where generic comments cause a lot of differing opinion simply because they are not qualified statements and there are very few writers with any amount if .458 and above rifle experience.
I am of this particular body shape where my classic styled Model 70 Featherweights are dream rifles to shoot in .30/06 or lesser powered cartridges and sheer torture for me when the cartridges turn to magnums .338 and up. By contrast I offered many times to shoot my .460 at $10 per round to any big mouth grandstanding at the range until the group opened up and the winner takes the pot. Guess what, no takers…….How can this be?
The 2 common body shapes are the shorter neck and rounded shoulders and the square shoulders with longer neck. You know who you are!

The longer neck and square shoulder is more common to thinner and possible taller men but is in conflict with a monte carlo stock design which hugs the face and has a cheek piece angled to slope away from the face as the stock raises in recoil. A longer neck sits too high on that cheek piece and the recoil pad is too low. That raising of the stock can also be a negative contributor, as it cams the scope eye piece back into your lower forehead with memorable results. That is where a muzzle break comes into its own to reduce that muzzle flip but that is not our objective with this piece.

The Monte Carlo design is best suited to rounded shoulders which many heavily build men share and some acquire to some degree during middle age. The point of the shoulder is lower which is why the Monte Carlo has a stepped down recoil heal much in line with the Bavarian style for location relating to the bore axis. Piling on clothing can also artificially create this sloping shoulder effect to some degree though the added a padding could also reduce any unpleasantness by increasing stock to body contact.
As for the .458, I have owned several and shot and reviewed several more covering Model 70, BRNO, Ruger #1, Mark X, CZ off the top of my head and I have broken several stocks during reviews so I am not a powder conservationist.

Using the full sized case I have used 17 bullets and about 13 powders and with the shortened 1.8” case, 3 bullets and 7 powders. After hundreds of animals in field tests, I have an appreciation for its abilities but also for its versatility.
Using 300 grain bullets it approximates the .375 H&H in recoil which most people shoot reasonable well and the increases in bullet weight 325gn, 350gn, 400gn, 405gn, 450gn, 500gn, 550gn and 600gn can be more easily managed progressively and even more so because of the varying bullet designs for which several are well suited to lower velocities for that particular bullet weight.
This means that the blanket statements about the .458 recoil are really not worth much as you can tailor recoil to your own needs, uses and wants. There is a step up in game reaction when using a .458 and that numbing effect you will see tends to remove all tendencies for enthusiasm and quick wittedness that game animal once had.

Finally, stock material also has an impact as does stock design and the recoil pad. I have had my current Model 70 in .458 for close to 20 years and it has 2 stocks, the synthetic XTR styled Safari style stock with Pachmayr Decelorator pad fitted to the electroless nickel plated metalwork makes a 91/4 pound rifle for the worst weather conditions and a second factory walnut with Winchester red recoil pad rounding out at 10 pounds. Figured walnut and nickel plating makes the .458 a real looker but that is not its function in my rack. This rifle is for bigger game or thicker woods hunting when the emphasis is to end the stalk.
Take a look in the mirror and choose wisely.

I've had a couple of 458s and consider recoil to be tolerable because it's a slow push rather than a quick jab. Mind you, it's a BIG slow push. Like all hard kickers, you have to hold the gun firmly to your shoulder and not give the gun a running start. You also have to lean forward, so you can rock backwards and roll with the recoil. If you're leaning backwards as you often see beginners do, you'll have nowhere to go except fall on your butt.

I consider the recoil from hard, fast kickers like 300 Weatherby to be more unpleasant. That's like getting a punch in the face from a boxer.

That Sir is a beautiful statement... and 100% of my joy in the caliber.

My personal introduction to big bore was 15-17 years odd ago... shooting a black powder Sharps (IIRC) 45-70...

Rainbow arch as I watched the bullet fly... and hit with remarkable accuracy.

I was mesmerized...

My first, a Mark X Alaskan was pretty mean. I sold it before I developed a flinch. My second was a #1 Tropical and it was a big push, just as handy as a truck axle though. Off it went. My third .458 was a Whitworth Express...too light, and bit pretty hard. Off it went. By then I had scratched that itch.

As a kid growing up with a Winchester 94 and a single shot 12ga prepares you for just about anything. The saying that if you don’t love your first born son you buy him a model 94 and a single shot 12ga as punishment. 😁

I have three 458 Wins and 1 458 Lott and my Model 71 348-450 Ackley improved recoils much more than any of them.

Never fired one

I shop a 416 rem in a relatively light rifle and it wasn’t pleasant. I found that I had to grit my teeth or my teeth would slam together unpleasantly. I don’t reload so the $10 per round cost was more expensive than I was comfortable with.

I have NEVER shot one and still consider the recoil painful!
Call me a wimp . . . as if I am the least concerned with others opinion!

My experience is limited. It went more or less like this: fun fun fun fun .. ouch DAMMIT great mother of GOD what the F U C K was that?

I was shooting a friend's M70 African. The first few loads were cast bullets. I didn't realize how light the loads were. Just as I ran out of ammo a damned ground squirrel ran in front of me so I grabbed a 510 grain FMJ factory load that was layin' there. After shooting the fairly heavy gun with light recoiling loads I did not pull it into my shoulder. It got a good run at me. Not just shoulder but a bit of forehead and eyebrow as well.

I think held properly it'd be fine. I didn't. It wasn't. "The end."

So how many rounds did it take to stop the ground squirrel?

.378 Bee. Talk about recoil. Brutal.

Friend of mine fired a test load downward at a steep angle into a big capture tank/pipe; said it felt like his feet came off the floor.

Not at all. If you reload there is now law saying you can't load up lead bullets to about 1700fps and go 🦌 hunting

No. I had one many years ago. I didn't think it was all that bad. Now, I'd probably pass even if I wanted to shoot one again. Maybe some wisdom does come with old age.
PJ

Never had an issue with the recoil from the 458s. Owned and shot many over the years. Had a light weight 375 RUM built and didnt find it to be too bad either. Shot a light weight 10 guage and even a ultimag 12 with full bore 3.5" rounds and very much dislike them. To me, they are the worst

Whats your preferred load?

Never shot a 458 Win,but my buddy has a 460Bee that is a little dicey to shoot.He has taken Bull Elephant and Buffs with it.They say its BS that a cartridge can physically move an animal when shot,but those Cape Buffs shot in the shoulder were physically moved.His PH took videos of all his kills.

The answer is, it depends. I fired one in a Remington 700 that about broke my jaw. Another in an Interarms Whitworth was much more tame.

Winchester 94 and a single shot 12ga prepares you for just about anything.


Boy, ain't that the truth! ha My first 30-30 was a Topper SS and it was mean. A Stevens SS 12ga Magnum was the pits! It shot great, but ouch! My first Winchester 94 was the Classic Carbine, heavy enough not to hurt.

I once owned a Ruger 77 African and it was fairly pleasant to shoot. I presently own a custom Mauser .458 built by Iver Henriksen and it fits me like it was made for me. Recoil, even with factory 510gr SP bullets is tolerable from the bench or offhand.
The ONLY .458WM that I have shot and don't care to shoot again, is the Ruger #1 that Patrick Barr owns. That one just plain hurts me. I've shot two Ruger #1's in .45-70 that I also can't stand to shoot off the bench.

I guess how you're built and how the stock is built has a lot to do with it.

Ed

I use 350 Grain TSX bullets in mine (Win 70 Safari) at 2500fps. Not too bad at all. 500 grain bullets start to stretch my tolerance from the bench.

I consider the cost of Nosler 458 solids to be painful....

Amen to that!!!! After firing 3.5" Turkey loads out of my NEF Pardner single shot, not much else seems all that bad!!! The 600gr 3.5" slugs that Lightfield used to make were also absolutely no fun out of a Mossberg 835 either!!!

Agree on the NEF Single Shot 3 1/2". I took the lead stock weight out of mine, didn't like the butt heavy balance. It do kick a tad with 3" shells, never tried 3 1/2". With a turkey super full choke, it's deadly on skunks and such out to 50 yds or so.

I shot a Browning FN .458 Win some years ago. Off hand, it wasn't that bad, just a big push, not too unlike my bud's 500 NE Merkel double. I felt I could also control that one pretty well, off hand.

IMO, a standing bench like Elmer advocated is the way to go bench shooting big guns. They'll beat ya to death on a sitting bench. The standing bench allows you to move with the gun, unlike being "locked down" with your shoulder in a forward position on a sitting bench.

A lot depends on the ergonomics of the stock and weight of the gun.

Here I am, at bud's camp, sighting in his M-70 416 Rem for his Safari couple years ago. I had loaded 400 gr. bullets at around 2,400 fps, using Swift load data with IMR 4064. Those big guns can be pretty accurate, this one shot sub inch at 65 yds, about the limit one would shoot a cape buff. I probably shot it 20 times getting it tuned in with three types of ammo, had no issues from that session. Standing bench works. To me .458 Win recoil is similar, although never shot one on a standing bench.

Hit mute button to hear .416 Rem go boom.

DF

[img]https://i.imgur.com/H0EkQ2c.mp4[/img]

Guys who claim that recoil doesn't effect them always tickle me.

What?

Being affected by recoil is a given, it is there without a doubt.

Now, if it causes problems, then that's another matter.

Being able to handle it and keep on keeping on is the goal, IMO.

I couldn't tolerate a long string of big guns, but can shoot them enough to get them sighted in.

DF

One thing that bogs these threads down is the endless comments on recoil, sure it's there, but there is no requirement or need to be excessive with it or blame the cartridge for delivering what it is designed to deliver.
Plan your load and work to your capabilities and you will be fine. What you are looking for is trust in your homework that can be relied upon.
Do yourself a favor and shorten the stalk after the shot it fired.