Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
He may make mistakes from time to time but he did a decent tribute with My Guitar gently weeps and he is pro-2nd Amendment. He has told the Vax police to pound sand. That is a pretty strong statement from somebody from the UK. I think that he is hit and miss but he sure doesn't suck. He is one of the good ones.
Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
Duane was the best, Clapton sucks, but he sucks less than you. As a guitar critic, he excels, unlike you.
Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
Duane was the best, Clapton sucks, but he sucks less than you. As a guitar critic, he excels, unlike you.
Bin needs to 86 this "copper solid" stooopid fuuuking azz maser sockpuppet also.. And maseypoo can take his little John wick sig line, which is laughable pertaining to his candy azz to begin with and shove it up his azz....
He may make mistakes from time to time but he did a decent tribute with My Guitar gently weeps and he is pro-2nd Amendment. He has told the Vax police to pound sand. That is a pretty strong statement from somebody from the UK. I think that he is hit and miss but he sure doesn't suck. He is one of the good ones.
He and Winwood. Winwood used to shoot skeet. 2500 shells a month? Dog trainer.
Merry Christmas! Anyway, it's true. He surrounded himself with a number of perfectly capable/pro rhythm sections post Cream, but none of them with the ferocious vision of Jack and Ginger.
I agree with Higgz. He's not a bad guitarist by any stretch but he is definitely waaay overrated.
Those who have attempted to master the fretboard and follow musicians of the serious sort hold standards that casual listeners and groupies will never grasp.
When I say āover playingā I just mean he was trying to do too much. Especially towards the end. Seemed a bit lost improvising and never hit a groove.
Sucks. Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
Not here to argue your opinion of Clapton, but when did that ever become an " incredibly melodic tune"? And, who convinced you that those are "blues licks"? Which great blues players get your listening?
Sucks. Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
Not here to argue your opinion of Clapton, but when did that ever become an " incredibly melodic tune"? And, who convinced you that those are "blues licks"? Which great blues players get your listening?
Everybody thinks they are qualified to be a critic... everyone has their own style and favorites and I've seen Clapton in concert twice and I would still rate him as in the top ten of all guitar players I've ever heard. Partly due to his style, which I prefer...
But then, if we put together a list of our top ten guitarists every person on this forum would have wildly different lists...
I've heard almost as many people say his concerts suck as I've heard about Hank Williams Jr.
I saw Clapton once back in the 70s but can't remember if that was when I was in Boston, just after college, or in the Army and I was near Seattle and saw him there...
I'm not much of a concert go'er, because I hate big crowds... but I recall the concert was excellent, and I was really estatic about it on the way back home. I was singing songs he played to myself for a week or more straight...
between 76 and 78.. somewhere in that time period.
I've heard almost as many people say his concerts suck as I've heard about Hank Williams Jr.
I saw Clapton once back in the 70s but can't remember if that was when I was in Boston, just after college, or in the Army and I was near Seattle and saw him there...
I'm not much of a concert go'er, because I hate big crowds... but I recall the concert was excellent, and I was really estatic about it on the way back home. I was singing songs he played to myself for a week or more straight...
between 76 and 78.. somewhere in that time period.
probably did have a killer show back then. The people I've talked to saw him later in life in the 90's, maybe early 2000's. It was always unsolicited too, so it must have been pretty bad
Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
I'll see your Clapton and raise you a Springsteen.
First time I saw Clapton live was 1979. Had Muddy Waters open for him. EC did 2 sets with an intermission. Set 1 was heavy on classic Blues. Crowd was getting restless since they came to hear Cocaine, After Midnight, Layla etc.
Set 2 was more of the hits. Encore saw him bring Muddy Waters onstage for a jam ending with āI got my mojo workingā
Iād appreciate that more now than then. Did make me practice harderā¦ for a while.š
The genius of Clapton is in his phrasing- some licks are like questions and the next is the answer. He is the master of the pre bend, and double stop bend. His style is not the Uber technical stuff you see from the 90s. You donāt have to know mixolydian, Phrygian or Ionian church modes to play Clapton. You must FEEL the music come from within.
I can't figure out whether people are complaining about talent or material. Clapton is a great musician. If you want an enthusiastic workout, try that lifestyle.
probably did have a killer show back then. The people I've talked to saw him later in life in the 90's, maybe early 2000's. It was always unsolicited too, so it must have been pretty bad
I saw him in that time frame and he was great. FWIW.
Clapton has left a large catalog of some pretty good music listen to by 100's of millions of people daily, mostly early in his career. How many people in the world can claim that?
He turned 60 in 2005 , almost 20 years ago, and he's still performing....
I admire guys still getting out, living a full life and performing over 70
Am certainly not an expert on rock guitarists or why some folks claim which is "best" or even "better. Opinion here is that most of those claims are based simply on what that listener/fan wants to hear and think.
So, gave a good listen to this post/example and certainly could not sensibly claim that either one gave the other a significant "workout" - that is, showed up the other. The more technically fluent licks and musical phrasing were laid down by Clapton - some more showy rock idioms characterized bends/frills/furbelows rather than developed lines came from Frampton. So, what does a judge like to hear?
Originally Posted by gunzo
Invite Clapton on your stage & you're going to get Clapton. But Yee Hah! A Clapton show till nearly the end & Frampton walks over & gives him a work out, a good one. Loved it.
Boomer blues. The stuff he did in the 60's was important but he bores the hell out of me.
Thereās some real analysis. Clapton has been recording for nearly 60 years and you can still find any of his albums still in print. Of course that has nothing to do with his talent or genre.
The real litmus test is how much of this $hit they are making today will be able to say the same in 60 years.
Rappers are the best example, they only quit recording when they are dead and the mortality rate on them is way above their salesā¦
Boomer blues. The stuff he did in the 60's was important but he bores the hell out of me.
Thereās some real analysis. Clapton has been recording for nearly 60 years and you can still find any of his albums still in print. Of course that has nothing to do with his talent or genre.
The real litmus test is how much of this $hit they are making today will be able to say the same in 60 years.
Rappers are the best example, they only quit recording when they are dead and the mortality rate on them is way above their salesā¦
Truth. Gen Z putting out some fantastic music these days. lol. Like wet ass pooosy
Everybody thinks they are qualified to be a critic... everyone has their own style and favorites and I've seen Clapton in concert twice and I would still rate him as in the top ten of all guitar players I've ever heard. Partly due to his style, which I prefer...
But then, if we put together a list of our top ten guitarists every person on this forum would have wildly different lists...
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. Or if you can weave a chromatic run into Stairway to Heaven you might be qualified. Or, lacking any of those abilities, you simply realize that professional and accomplished amateur guitarists know a little more about the craft than your typical "Bob Dylan is the greatest who ever drew breath" knucklehead.
Am certainly not an expert on rock guitarists or why some folks claim which is "best" or even "better. Opinion here is that most of those claims are based simply on what that listener/fan wants to hear and think.
So, gave a good listen to this post/example and certainly could not sensibly claim that either one gave the other a significant "workout" - that is, showed up the other. The more technically fluent licks and musical phrasing were laid down by Clapton - some more showy rock idioms characterized bends/frills/furbelows rather than developed lines came from Frampton. So, what does a judge like to hear?
Originally Posted by gunzo
Invite Clapton on your stage & you're going to get Clapton. But Yee Hah! A Clapton show till nearly the end & Frampton walks over & gives him a work out, a good one. Loved it.
A good analogy. I suppose this listener prefers the latter. I love the frills & bends provided they are laced together well. Probably why I seek & listen to SRV a lot. Clapton does lay down good stuff in these uneducated ears & enjoy listening to him when he shows up. But I guess he or his style just hasn't lit me up since the Cream days.
When Frampton was showing off Clapton was smiling more than we'll usually ever see. Did he like it? Or was he laughing at him
I m like the big bands like we used to have. They supported the boys overseas. I dont like all the loud stuff they plug in to the lectromogricity, it hurts my ears and i can understand whayt they are saying. Roy Rodgers
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. Or if you can weave a chromatic run into Stairway to Heaven you might be qualified. Or, lacking any of those abilities, you simply realize that professional and accomplished amateur guitarists know a little more about the craft than your typical "Bob Dylan is the greatest who ever drew breath" knucklehead.
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
Up tempo 12 bar blues by a fine big band - the gals are excellent and the middle singer does some nice pseudo instrumental solo work. Thanks.
Originally Posted by slumlord
I m like the big bands like we used to have. They supported the boys overseas. I dont like all the loud stuff they plug in to the lectromogricity, it hurts my ears and i can understand whayt they are saying. Roy Rodgers
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. Or if you can weave a chromatic run into Stairway to Heaven you might be qualified. Or, lacking any of those abilities, you simply realize that professional and accomplished amateur guitarists know a little more about the craft than your typical "Bob Dylan is the greatest who ever drew breath" knucklehead.
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
I know A minor goes with F major from Cowgirl in the sand
I enjoy a lot of his music. As a guitar player, I find myself being a lot less critical of other guitar players, especially the ones that get a good reaction when I play them myself.
āYou Look Wonderful Tonightā is one of the first songs I ever learned and it got me laidā¦..a lot.
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. Or if you can weave a chromatic run into Stairway to Heaven you might be qualified. Or, lacking any of those abilities, you simply realize that professional and accomplished amateur guitarists know a little more about the craft than your typical "Bob Dylan is the greatest who ever drew breath" knucklehead.
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
The answer is that it depends what the question is. Are we talking about the key of E? If so, there are 7 triads in that key and 3 of them are minor chords. C-sharp minor, F-sharp minor, and G-sharp minor.
So, if Clapton sucks, how do you feel about Mark Knopfler? me thinks someone is shooting over their qualifications.
How many are even gonna know who Knopfler is? But he truly is one of the very best. Music is all about opinion most of the time, but Knopfler has skills beyond the imagination of most. Waaay better than Clapton.
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. Or if you can weave a chromatic run into Stairway to Heaven you might be qualified. Or, lacking any of those abilities, you simply realize that professional and accomplished amateur guitarists know a little more about the craft than your typical "Bob Dylan is the greatest who ever drew breath" knucklehead.
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
I have seen Clapton live several times, most were really good shows. One show with Robert Cray and SRV was probably the best night of music I have been lucky enough to see.
One indoor show on the tears in heaven tour was quite possibly the worst concert I have heard.
You play for as long as he has you are bound to have some bad nights.
Clapton definitely went through some rough periods. Between the drugs, the lifestyle, losing his child, and recovery, he kind of gave up for a few years in the 90s and 2000 time period. The last time I saw him was his second to last tour, which was probably about 10-15 years ago now and he sounded as good as he ever did. Personally, I always liked his singing as much as his guitar playing. As he got older it seemed his voice got better and the last concert I saw him he sounded better than ever, even though he was probably in his 60s by then...
Clapton is far from the most technical player, though I think he had the chops to do it if he wanted - but his melodic style and individual note picking and the songs he wrote really spoke to me and apparently a lot of other fans... even when he was playing Cocaine or Layla, it wasn't like going to a heavy metal concert with all the noise and chaos. Going to a Clapton concert was like going to a symphony- something you could absorb, listen to every note, relax and enjoy without feeling like you had been in a mosh pit at the end ... I've seen the Stones, Knopfler, Winter Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Tom Petty, and many others and their style and concerts are very different and all were great concerts, but Clapton fits my style and comfort level much better. I wish I could play a guitar like he does...
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. - - - -
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
The answer is that it depends what the question is. Are we talking about the key of E? If so, there are 7 triads in that key and 3 of them are minor chords. C-sharp minor, F-sharp minor, and G-sharp minor.
Originally Posted by RiverRider
I'll take F# min and a C# min for starters.
Gooch, when RR named E, A, and B Major chords, I logically assumed he was talking in the key of E major and, as you replied, the normal diatonic minor triads (and minor 7ths) in that key are f#, g# and c#, and RR cited two of those as well. Same ii, iii, vi pattern holds in any major diatonic key.
As do you two guys, I often wonder about the actual knowledge bases for a lot of the evaluative/ranking comments in these "guitarist; threads.
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. - - - -
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
The answer is that it depends what the question is. Are we talking about the key of E? If so, there are 7 triads in that key and 3 of them are minor chords. C-sharp minor, F-sharp minor, and G-sharp minor.
Originally Posted by RiverRider
I'll take F# min and a C# min for starters.
Gooch, when RR named E, A, and B Major chords, I logically assumed he was talking in the key of E major and, as you replied, the normal diatonic minor triads (and minor 7ths) in that key are f#, g# and c#, and RR cited two of those as well. Same ii, iii, vi pattern holds in any major diatonic key.
As do you two guys, I often wonder about the actual knowledge bases for a lot of the evaluative/ranking comments in these "guitarist; threads.
Once I started playing, I started appreciating a lot more music. Even if it isnāt really my cup of tea, I can enjoy parts of it. I encourage anyone who enjoys listening to music to pick up an instrument.
For instance, Yellow Ledbetter has become one of my favorite songs because of Mike McCreadyās guitar play. This is despite not being able to understand one damn word Eddie Vedder is saying.
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. - - - -
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
The answer is that it depends what the question is. Are we talking about the key of E? If so, there are 7 triads in that key and 3 of them are minor chords. C-sharp minor, F-sharp minor, and G-sharp minor.
Originally Posted by RiverRider
I'll take F# min and a C# min for starters.
Gooch, when RR named E, A, and B Major chords, I logically assumed he was talking in the key of E major and, as you replied, the normal diatonic minor triads (and minor 7ths) in that key are f#, g# and c#, and RR cited two of those as well. Same ii, iii, vi pattern holds in any major diatonic key.
As do you two guys, I often wonder about the actual knowledge bases for a lot of the evaluative/ranking comments in these "guitarist; threads.
Once I started playing, I started appreciating a lot more music. Even if it isnāt really my cup of tea, I can enjoy parts of it. I encourage anyone who enjoys listening to music to pick up an instrument.
For instance, Yellow Ledbetter has become one of my favorite songs because of Mike McCreadyās guitar play. This is despite not being able to understand one damn word Eddie Vedder is saying.
Paul, I have no formal music training and don't even read music. I taught myself to play thinking in terms of intervals, all just single notes for a long time and learned to see the patterns on the fretboard. I learned the names of some of these concepts as time went on and progressed to chords. The names of scales and modes and such never mattered to me...it was always just patterns that could be moved up or down the neck however many half-steps I wanted. After about 30 years of it I began to get pretty good in spite of the limitations I put on myself...then I injured the forefinger of my left hand pretty badly. That was 25 years ago and I haven't fiddled much since. I've forgotten more than I remember, I'm sure.
The thing about ranking guitarists is, a guy can take five chords and use them as the basis for an arrangement that when well played impresses any listener and might even become an epic standard (but let's agree: pop culture SUCKS!). That IS a real talent but it's just not the same as genuine virtuosity.
Clapton can play his guitar, but he's never displayed the virtuosity of a McLaughlin, a DiMeola, a Holdsworth, an Eric Johhnson, or a Jeff Beck (RIP). There are lots of guitarists who blow Clapton into the dirt. I'll concede that this doesn't support the assertion that he necessarily sucks, though. Neil Young? Now, HE SUCKS!
Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
EC has 18 Grammys and is in the RnR HOF I belive 3 times . Has played in Derick and the Dominoes, Cream, The Yardbirds, and a long solo career. I'd have to say he's pretty accomplished at his trade.
Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
EC has 18 Grammys and is in the RnR HOF I belive 3 times . Has played in Derick and the Dominoes, Cream, The Yardbirds, and a long solo career. I'd have to say he's pretty accomplished at his trade.
If you know what minor chord goes with E, A, and B major then you might be qualified. Or if you know what a pentatonic scale is and can play it, you might be qualified. - - - -
OK - good food for thought - so what "minor chord" goes with "E,A, and B major"?
The answer is that it depends what the question is. Are we talking about the key of E? If so, there are 7 triads in that key and 3 of them are minor chords. C-sharp minor, F-sharp minor, and G-sharp minor.
Originally Posted by RiverRider
I'll take F# min and a C# min for starters.
Gooch, when RR named E, A, and B Major chords, I logically assumed he was talking in the key of E major and, as you replied, the normal diatonic minor triads (and minor 7ths) in that key are f#, g# and c#, and RR cited two of those as well. Same ii, iii, vi pattern holds in any major diatonic key. As do you two guys, I often wonder about the actual knowledge bases for a lot of the evaluative/ranking comments in these "guitarist; threads.
Once I started playing, I started appreciating a lot more music. Even if it isnāt really my cup of tea, I can enjoy parts of it. I encourage anyone who enjoys listening to music to pick up an instrument. For instance, Yellow Ledbetter has become one of my favorite songs because of Mike McCreadyās guitar play. This is despite not being able to understand one damn word Eddie Vedder is saying.
Paul, I have no formal music training and don't even read music. I taught myself to play thinking in terms of intervals, all just single notes for a long time and learned to see the patterns on the fretboard. I learned the names of some of these concepts as time went on and progressed to chords. The names of scales and modes and such never mattered to me...it was always just patterns that could be moved up or down the neck however many half-steps I wanted. After about 30 years of it I began to get pretty good in spite of the limitations I put on myself...then I injured the forefinger of my left hand pretty badly. That was 25 years ago and I haven't fiddled much since. I've forgotten more than I remember, I'm sure.
The thing about ranking guitarists is, a guy can take five chords and use them as the basis for an arrangement that when well played impresses any listener and might even become an epic standard (but let's agree: pop culture SUCKS!). That IS a real talent but it's just not the same as genuine virtuosity.
Clapton can play his guitar, but he's never displayed the virtuosity of a McLaughlin, a DiMeola, a Holdsworth, an Eric Johhnson, or a Jeff Beck (RIP). There are lots of guitarists who blow Clapton into the dirt. I'll concede that this doesn't support the assertion that he necessarily sucks, though. Neil Young? Now, HE SUCKS!
LOL.
RR - it sounds to me like you did great on your own with your own devices and methods - way to go. I generally agree with your comments on guitarists.
As do you two guys, I often wonder about the actual knowledge bases for a lot of the evaluative/ranking comments in these "guitarist; threads.
As stupid as thinking a guy needs a background in espionage to critic a 007 flick. Rather telling.
Well, seems like you think you know something about stupid.
That exchange probably would appear to be stupid to a listener who is willing to assess and "rank" players simply on the basis of what the listener "likes" to run through his ears and into his brain. Individual taste varies immensely - which is as it should be - makes it fine for folks to push and argue that what they like to hear constitutes "the best". But, assessments made purely on personal "likes" tend to mean little or nothing outside the person.
OTOH, assessments made on the basis of critical standards common to the genre with application of theoretical knowledge, actual performance experience and thoughtful comparative listening tend to have much more meaning with other listeners - and are more intelligently discussable.
Yeah, a 007 flick. Simple, crass entertainment - probably does not require much, if any, usable knowledge to "critic"(sic) that. I do not consider truly great guitar playing to be simple, crass entertainment - not at all the equivalent of sitting in front of a screen and getting entertained by a canned pop product.
Excellent guitar playing and any such musical endeavor - and what goes into making that happen - exist in a completely different realm than watching a pop movie. I think such listening and understanding takes more than "stupid" effort to get ones brain wrapped fully around it, which enables a much more sophisticated way of deciding what one likes.
To each his own with regard to the ear candy - but I never would call someone else's way of assessing music "stupid". How would that have been good at all for young and growing students? I am reminded of a phrase sometimes quoted by an excellent teacher: "The ignorant tend to hate that which they do not understand."
I enjoy a lot of his music. As a guitar player, I find myself being a lot less critical of other guitar players, especially the ones that get a good reaction when I play them myself.
āYou Look Wonderful Tonightā is one of the first songs I ever learned and it got me laidā¦..a lot.
Jump in the Fire was one of the first songs I learned then Battery (personal fave) Master of Puppets, Sanitarium but the songs that got me some of the best pussy were Talk Dirty To Me & Still of the Night
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
Here's a great example as to why. Plays schidty blues licks over one of his best friends most incredibly melodic tunes and it ends up being the only video in existence of Harrison doing "Isn't it a Pity."
Except no band tours without rehearsals and what Clapton plays was obviously approved by George before they got on the plane. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it only your opinion.
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
Partially agree, love the Beano album. However, Buddy Guy and Freddie, Albert and BB King set the stage.
We tend to elevate people after they pass. Were they at their peak or were the best years ahead? We'll never know, but these guys could definitely bring it; SRV, Jimi, Duane, Eddie, Prince, Harrison, Berry, Greene, Kath, Robert Johnson and now Jeff Beck. IMHO, Jeff Beck did it the best the longest. He crossed genres effortlessly and made it sound amazing. Really a pleasure to listen to...and isn't that the true measure?
There's a lot of talent still using air; Trucks, Mayer, Knophler, Thompson, Lifeson, Vai, May, Page, Gilmour, just way too many to mention. All very good, but probably won't be mentioned in the top 5 or 10 until they're room temp.
Clapton is probably in the top ten, but number 1? Not by a long shot.
- - - The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. - - - - He changed the entire guitar industry - - - - - the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
If these comments are intended to be limited only to the sphere of rock-type guitar playing, you very well may be on right the mark.
If you intended to encompass exactly what you wrote - "every aspiring guitar player", "the entire guitar industry" and "the most famous names in music" - you would be skating on very thin ice. I know of some quite great guitarists and famous names in music who relate to none of those claims.
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
I guess what I'm learning from this discussion is that the academic musicians on this site look down on us lowly fans who have listened to some of the greatest musicians of the last 70 years and made up our own minds of what we think is great or not. I guess that without a degree in music we are too stupid to be allowed to have an opinion....
I haven't seen a lot of names listed here who could be in this list- like Glen Campbell, Roy Clark, and other musicians I see praised often- but this is a discussion about Eric Clapton and that isn't a bad place to start with great musicians on the menu IMO..
The dates I'm reading on Beano are 1966. That's after Clapton left the Yardbirds because he felt they were heading a different direction than he wanted to go. So if that's correct, he was in the Bluesbreakers after the YB. Yes, he likely influenced many or most of the later players, but Hendrix had 2 or 3 hits in 66, 67. So he maybe influenced Clapton???
As do you two guys, I often wonder about the actual knowledge bases for a lot of the evaluative/ranking comments in these "guitarist; threads.
As stupid as thinking a guy needs a background in espionage to critic a 007 flick.Rather telling.
CCCC is the same guy that claimed Prince wasn't a musician. LOL
I did comment on Prince - however - either you have lost what is left of your addled mind, or you are a bare-faced liar. Produce the claim or hang your head!
I did comment on Prince - however - either you have lost what is left of your addled mind, or you are a bare-faced liar. Produce the claim or hang your head!
I think I'll just remind myself you're a dumb ass.
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
Are you alluding to the intentional use of distortion? If so, history doesn't support your premise. See Bob Wills Boogie released in 1946, Ike Turner, The Kinks' You Really Got Me (1964) and dozens of other recording, all pre-Clapton.
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
I don't think Don Ross spent much time listening to Eric Clapton.
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
Are you alluding to the intentional use of distortion? If so, history doesn't support your premise. See Bob Wills Boogie released in 1946, Ike Turner, The Kinks' You Really Got Me (1964) and dozens of other recording, all pre-Clapton.
Heās alluding to the fact that Cream, though they only lasted 2-3 years, were HIGHLY influential, in their day (as were the Clapton-era Bluesbreakers). Even if folks donāt think Clapton was that āgreatā, most/all the other āgreatā guitarists of the 60ās/70ās/80ās would likely list him as a major influence.
I guess what I'm learning from this discussion is that the academic musicians on this site look down on us lowly fans who have listened to some of the greatest musicians of the last 70 years and made up our own minds of what we think is great or not. I guess that without a degree in music we are too stupid to be allowed to have an opinion....
I haven't seen a lot of names listed here who could be in this list- like Glen Campbell, Roy Clark, and other musicians I see praised often- but this is a discussion about Eric Clapton and that isn't a bad place to start with great musicians on the menu IMO..
Please try not to learn a mistaken point, because at least some of what one might call "academic musicians" do not at all "look down" on whatever you might think are lowly fans with their own opinions. A degree in any field does not make one immune from stupidity. Some learned musicians have spent mighty amounts of time, energy and expertise helping novices and inexperienced folks learn a lot about music - and that cannot be done with a condescending attitude. A well-educated musician has learned to not look down on other players simply because they are less knowledgeable or proficient.
Most of us have our own musical favorites and icons, and our own opinions about those and others. I value such opinions of others, and usually can learn from those - which has happened for me in this thread.
For the most part, the questioning replies/challenges occur where we see sweeping statements and somewhat blazing generalities which, to my knowledge and experience, seem beyond the pale with regard to demonstrable support. "So and so is the greatest whatever player" or "He was the greatest influence on all the harmonica players that followed" or "All of the great musicians admired her", etc. etc.
Of course, folks must be welcome to express such opinions. Then again, some thinking folks will - from time to time - question such statements and even challenge them. That is the way a learning and critiquing mind works - it is the way we teach ourselves, which is the very best teaching. The larger one's realm of knowledge and experience, the more involved the inquiries may be.
Rarely do I negatively criticize a learner - but rather ask him/her to critique their own musical work, and then try to support and broaden their assessment. This is an important way of helping the person grow and learn.
Socrates had a good thing going with regard to questioning - and what is that saying about an unconsidered life?
I did comment on Prince - however - either you have lost what is left of your addled mind, or you are a bare-faced liar. Produce the claim or hang your head!
I think I'll just remind myself you're a dumb ass.
Real guys like you resort to name calling, eh? On your subject of dumb, are you really thinking or simply running away and dodging to hide from your embarrassing post. If you are still possessed of your main faculties, you know it was a bare-faced lie. You still have the opportunity to produce your proof - or shut up and swallow the above.
Don Ross list one of his inspirations as Bruce Cockburn which was in a group that opened for Cream & Hendrix in 1968. It all leads back one way or another.
But in 1966, a lot of things happened that year. The guitar in this got a lot of attention.
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
Are you alluding to the intentional use of distortion? If so, history doesn't support your premise. See Bob Wills Boogie released in 1946, Ike Turner, The Kinks' You Really Got Me (1964) and dozens of other recording, all pre-Clapton.
Heās alluding to the fact that Cream, though they only lasted 2-3 years, were HIGHLY influential, in their day (as were the Clapton-era Bluesbreakers). Even if folks donāt think Clapton was that āgreatā, most/all the other āgreatā guitarists of the 60ās/70ās/80ās would likely list him as a major influence.
Absolutely agree with that, as long as we limit 'the greats' to blues/blue-rock guitarists.
Anybody that thinks Clapton hasn't been on the hind teet for 19 years aint paying attention.
I woulda said 30+ but there are two caveats here - Blues for Mr. Johnson and Pilgrim
Two very good albums that almost keep the dream alive for a lot of the "mustache blues" guitarists.
My issue with Clapton in the above clip is that he's been told he was "God" since day one and when given the chance to play with his "bestest friend in the whole wide world" he couldn't be bothered to woodshed for 10 min and come up with anything even remotely good.
Hell, the Cream reunion sucked serious ass helped along thoroughly by Bruce and Baker, but the crappy Strat/Fender Tweed tone wasn't helping!
I saw him on the Pilgrim tour with Knopfler and Derek Trucks. He came out in an Armani suit with Gucci specs and played for maybe 50 min with one encore. I'd love to say Knopfler and Trucks ate his lunch, but he barely let them get wound up.
The idea you have to have credentials to think Clapton sucks is fugging hilarious and only means CCCC thinks he has them.
I'm astonished Clapton isn't playing the Indian Casinos honestly.
Did auto correct get everything right on this one?
The thing unknown or forgotten by people who critique Clapton is that he was the pioneer who created the sound the world heard and emulated the last 62 years. He was the guy. Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?
Because he went into a studio with John Mayall with a 1962 Marshall 50W combo amp with 4x10" speakers (Never replicated) and a late 50's Les Paul and turned the amp full up which had never been done in a studio recording. The Album, commonly called the "Beano" Album became the staple of every aspiring guitar player on earth. Many songs from that album were old blues standards but they were never played nor heard the way Clapton recorded them. He changed the entire guitar industry, continuing to demonstrate his chops in Cream and no-one can top that. During the Cream reunion concert which sold out 4 shows in minutes in 2005, the room was filled with the most famous names in music all drooling at the master and enjoying the privilege of experiencing that band live.
Today a punk kid in a garage somewhere is using a Gibson (or copy) into a Marshall (or copy) and thinks it was Slash or Randy or someone else but the entire guitarist world learned something from Clapton, the Mentor of all Mentors.
Claptons Bluesbreaker tone was awesome. It was the music that kinda sucked on that one. Clapton was the shining star in that band and Mayall floundered without him.
- - - - - - - The idea you have to have credentials to think Clapton sucks is fugging hilarious and only means CCCC thinks he has them. - - - - -
You certainly are welcome to whatever opinion you have about Clapton and you can bash the guy ad infinitum until your rage is satiated. I have zero opinion about where he might stand in the rock guitar pantheon or whether he sucks - as you say he does.
When it comes to silly arguments about such opinions, some of us don't claim any rock guitar star "credentials" and have never felt the need. Somewhere, in some rational minds, there is something to be said for the usefulness of knowledge, insight and experienced frame of reference for assessment.
Of the many well-learned and insightful musicians I know, not one would feel at all inclined to dignify your meaningless drivel by arguing with you.
I enjoy a lot of his music. As a guitar player, I find myself being a lot less critical of other guitar players, especially the ones that get a good reaction when I play them myself.
āYou Look Wonderful Tonightā is one of the first songs I ever learned and it got me laidā¦..a lot.
Jump in the Fire was one of the first songs I learned then Battery (personal fave) Master of Puppets, Sanitarium but the songs that got me some of the best pussy were Talk Dirty To Me & Still of the Night
don't let my gal see this !
I think bands that look like chicks are the best at getting chicks. T. Rex was popular with the ladies, 20th Century Boy and Bang a Gong in particular.
- - - - - - - The idea you have to have credentials to think Clapton sucks is fugging hilarious and only means CCCC thinks he has them. - - - - -
You certainly are welcome to whatever opinion you have about Clapton and you can bash the guy ad infinitum until your rage is satiated. I have zero opinion about where he might stand in the rock guitar pantheon or whether he sucks - as you say he does.
When it comes to silly arguments about such opinions, some of us don't claim any rock guitar star "credentials" and have never felt the need. Somewhere, in some rational minds, there is something to be said for the usefulness of knowledge, insight and experienced frame of reference for assessment.
Of the many well-learned and insightful musicians I know, not one would feel at all inclined to dignify your meaningless drivel by arguing with you.
And yet, here you are, again, trying to argue with me.
Summoning all the disgust from your "well-learned and insightful musicians" is a nice touch. I'm sure they all look down their noses and over their French Horns with the same intense hatred you carry for me and my un-learned ilk.
I've seen your type in many forms. Most notably music teachers and worship pastors who think they are somehow the bearers of the torch and the only ones educated enough to truly understand music. It can be absolute torture for them to watch other people enjoy and make music with no education on theory. How can they do this without knowing the rules?
You wanted to argue about my opinions of praise for The Beatles.
You wanted to argue about my positive opinions of Jimi Hendrix.
You wanted to make sure everyone knew you had driven an Aston Martin "hard" on many, many occasions and never noticed the upholstery on my thread about my Dads work.
And here you are trying to drag me into an argument with claims I've stated Clapton is better or worse than some other guitar players.
- - - - - - - The idea you have to have credentials to think Clapton sucks is fugging hilarious and only means CCCC thinks he has them. - - - - -
You certainly are welcome to whatever opinion you have about Clapton and you can bash the guy ad infinitum until your rage is satiated. I have zero opinion about where he might stand in the rock guitar pantheon or whether he sucks - as you say he does.
When it comes to silly arguments about such opinions, some of us don't claim any rock guitar star "credentials" and have never felt the need. Somewhere, in some rational minds, there is something to be said for the usefulness of knowledge, insight and experienced frame of reference for assessment.
Of the many well-learned and insightful musicians I know, not one would feel at all inclined to dignify your meaningless drivel by arguing with you.
And yet, here you are, again, trying to argue with me. Summoning all the disgust from your "well-learned and insightful musicians" is a nice touch. I'm sure they all look down their noses and over their French Horns with the same intense hatred you carry for me and my un-learned ilk. I've seen your type in many forms. Most notably music teachers and worship pastors who think they are somehow the bearers of the torch and the only ones educated enough to truly understand music. It can be absolute torture for them to watch other people enjoy and make music with no education on theory. How can they do this without knowing the rules? You wanted to argue about my opinions of praise for The Beatles. You wanted to argue about my positive opinions of Jimi Hendrix. You wanted to make sure everyone knew you had driven an Aston Martin "hard" on many, many occasions and never noticed the upholstery on my thread about my Dads work. And here you are trying to drag me into an argument with claims I've stated Clapton is better or worse than some other guitar players. You even used the word "pantheon". Quoting Socrates was funny too.
It sounds as though you have a problem - you act and speak as if you can read minds and tell others what they want, if they are disgusted, or have hatred, or are tortured. Maybe you could try reading some psych work on projection.
I have yet to argue with you, even a tiny bit, for it is not worth the effort - but you seem to need and covet such attention. What actually happened (all of it sits above) is that you started with a bunch of criticism of Clapton and asserted that his playing "sucks". I replied, telling you I had no argument about your opinion of Clapton, but asked questions about certain things you said.
That is not argument - it is seeking information about basis for another person's opinion. Try to process that distinction - it may help you learn. One does not have to argue with you while trying to understand why you think/say as you do, or even to provide information that undermines your opinion. I don't have any argument with you on any of your guitar opinions, but the process of questioning and revelation is good for the mind, and you seem to be a needy opinionator.
If you are irritated by musicians who are more learned and can assess with more insight and precision, that is your problem. Instead of scratching the irritation, why not try to cure it with some learning? Disregard if you wish, but young buddies and I were able to make some pretty good music (mostly covers) and some steady work while in HS when we had very little theoretical knowledge or technical skills. We merely had big ears and enthusiasm/energy. For some of us, it led to a lot of learning and musical development. On the other hand, more than one of the most fantastic guitarists I ever heard or worked with seemed to have little or no formal training or deep theoretical understanding. They were naturals and seemed to need nothing more.
The process of having your statements questioned seems to have gotten under your skin to the point where you now need to drag in cars, upholstery and other music performers. How can you stand the fact that someone else might have a different view than yours? But, the smell and texture of your bait is not tempting.
Some incidentals:
Your father's upholstery work seem to be first class - way, way above the the work I did in 1970 trying to improve my 1960 TR3A with some black naugahyde on the seats/side curtains.
I did/do read Soctrates and occasionally refer, and find his approach helpful. He is in the pantheon of many thinkers.
You started the thread about the Aston Martin and I replied positively. You questioned me about 'which one' or something similar, and I gave the info. From that, how did you read my mind about what I want "people to understand"? You must have supernatural powers. Your AM thread - what is negative about a guy thinking about buying one, or having driven one - hard? The most recent was a Vantage.
There is quit a bit of information above. Where is the argument? This stuff is good exercise.
I have no idea who the best guitarist in the mix is I bet some of the best we have never even heard of, they didnāt know how to get the attention they deserved
But EC is a Great entertainer who have preformed we many who make his shows look good etc
He has stood the test of time he must have something going for him
Maybe I missed it but Higg who is your favorite and who do you think is the best? They may not be the same
I have no idea who the best guitarist in the mix is I bet some of the best we have never even heard of, they didnāt know how to get the attention they deserved
But EC is a Great entertainer who have preformed we many who make his shows look good etc
He has stood the test of time he must have something going for him
Maybe I missed it but Higg who is your favorite and who do you think is the best? They may not be the same
Hank
I've got favorites but wouldn't ever state a best.
One of my fav solos of all time was Duane Allman on "Anyday" off of Derek and the Dominoes.
My opinion is that the general public has been told so much that Clapton is great, they just take it as fact. You'll notice as this thread progressed, I didn't run him down much other than to joke about him treading water since Cream and pointing out how horrible the Cream reunion was. Oh yeah and I brought up his fugging Armani suit. As a matter of fact, I cut him some slack and even mentioned some of his better work over the last 25 years.
He's withstood the test of time for sure but it is due, in a very large part, to the positive press he got in those early years.
My gripe in the original post was that the only known recording of George doing Isn't it a Pity has on it, the worst Clapton solo of all time.
Steve Vai thinks Danny Gatton is the greatest guitarist he's ever heard.
Not a claptop fan, average guitarist, average songs, most of the big hits he didn't write. If it wasnt for Duane Allman and Layla, he would have never blown up the way he did.
Mad a lot of money with so/so talent, can't fault him for that.
"Without Clapton there is no Hendrix, SRV, Randy Rhodes and a million others. Why?"
Those guys didn't need clapton, especially Hendrix and SRV, they were so into the black blues guitarist before clapton. Why not give credit where credit is do, Jim Marshall, Les Paul and Leo Fender.
Heck, SRV would still be here if it wasnt for clapton and that helicopter.
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