https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...owflat/Number/1511172/page/1#Post1511172

More here, it's a long PDF, I browsed it. Seems that ALL powder, smokeless and black, pellets, primers are classified as explosives under this proposal and transportation and storage will be greatly affected.

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main

But...they said they were just after assault rifles...

This SUCKS, .....big time.

Occurs to me that we're about to see one of the last great Family oriented outdoor Recreation activities in place at this time regulated outta' existance, ......while outfits like MS 13, and other assorted creeps are in an ascendancy.

I can tell you from personal experience that,on a busy year of BPCR competition, going through 50LB. of Black ain't that hard to do.......How does one "stock up" for that?

Damn shame to see this, and now the Muzzies will have one more source of ire.........focused in their general direction......

Hivernans, Ronnyvooers, and Buffalo Hunters.

Any youze' noticed a dearth of "Strike Anywhere" kitchen matches?
......that sorta' sucks, too.

This is indeed troubling.

GTC

Perhaps as puzzling is the lack of hoots and hollers over this here at the Campfire? Am I missing something?

Them Dirty Lowdown scum bags, looks to me like they are trying an end around using another agency. Guess i have some writing to do after i get home. Les

You fellas that haven't read this ought to be payin' attention here. Several of the Powder companies are workin' this without much success and the wording I got out of the OSHA web site link (Explosives) says in short form....there will be no more reloading components, black powder or ammo shipped by any form other than common carrier. OHSA is looking to shut the shooting sports down....you need to be rattlin' some cages up in Washington really quick or our shooting sports are toast....and not a shot fired in reply.

How did you get the search engine to find the stuff on powder etc. I could not find anything.

From BPCR.....net, and our esteemed Steve Garbe

titled " Black Powder Banned "

"I hope that thread headline made you mad.

It will be true unless more of us don't get off our collective dead-asses and jack up the NRA about the new proposed OSHA regulations. The number to call at the NRA is 202-651-2560. Raise hell, find out what they are doing about this...this is exactly what you pay your membership dues for.

Call your Congessmen...most don't know that this is even being proposed. OSHA gets it's money from Congress.

Unless we unleash a storm of protest, this thing is going to happen.

Everyone has time to post on the web concerning myriad topics of small importance...well, here's one that is pretty damn important and I would say worthy of more than just a passing glance. The Schumer Crowd is trying to slip this past us. They don't want to take our guns...just the ammmunition.

Make the calls, get your buddies to make the calls, generally become a very active and pissed-off American gun owner.

Hillary is counting on you to be "too busy."

Gute Ziele,

Steve Garbe "

***************************

I could not agree with Steve more, and can see this whole
"New Regulations" thing shrouded in a fog of beauocratic deception.........truly Machaeivelian in it's evil brilliance, abhorent in it's implications,and loathsome in principle.

CARVE away at this, ....please, and let's kill it, like the immigration bill.

GTC

OK......Log onto :

Link: www.regulations.gov


use "search option 4",

select "Document I.D"

enter " OSHA-2007-0032-0001"

You're going to bring up a really turgid bucket of muck.

......scroll down to page 18800 ( is that ACTUALLY how many new OSHA regs have been written this year ?)......


Halfway down the right column, there's OSHA's new definitions of explosives, and this includes ALL handloading components, not just BP.......

Note that the UNITED NATIONS standards now apply to YOUR ammunition, and ammo components, and availability......here in the "Homeland". ( and no, this is Not making me feel secure )

Quick as I figure out how to cut and paste individual excerpts outta' this interminably murky piece of regul;atory crap, ....I'll put 'em up.

In don't feel like I'm crying wolf here, friends, .....
I feel like a pack of 'ems' chewin on my leg.

Appreciate alla' youze checkin' this out, and reacting to it.

later,

GTC

This, from page 18800............

"Osha has changed the definition of "Blasting Agent" in the proposed standard to update it and make it consistant with the definition used by DOT and THE UNITED NATIONS GLOBALLY HARMONIZED SYATEM OF CLASSIFICATION AND LABELING OF CHEMICALS EXPLOSIVES CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM." (emphasis, mine)

and further down........:

"...............the term would include Dynamite, Black Powder,
dteonators, blasting agents, initiating explosives, blasting caps, safety fuse, fuse lighters, fuse ignitors, squibs, cordeau detonant fuse, instantaneous fuse, igniter cord, igniters, pyrotechnics, special industrial explosive materials,
SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION, PRIMERS, SMOKELESS PROPELLANT,(again, emphasis mine), cartridges for propellant actuated power devices ,and cartridges for industrial guns"

.................We've apparently got 'til the 12 of this month to stomp all over this nonsense.

it DOES need stomped on, ....too.

GTC

btt

This sure doesn't seem to be getting any legs......

WTF, ......over?

GTC

I think that I'll look into this and give Kay Baily Hutchison's office a call....This is serious boys!!!!

Dan Said: "Perhaps as puzzling is the lack of hoots and hollers over this here at the Campfire? Am I missing something?"

my answer , right this moment......?

Beats the krap outta' me.

I really don't want to have to start raiding Mexican "Comandancias" for ammo, cuz I can't get components here.

If it does come to that, how many of you will be crazy enough to ride along on that stunt....?

GTC

Digital Dan,

Maybe all this needs is to have the subject line changed to something like "OSHA to ban Handloading".

I know I skipped over it a couple times myself and haven't even seen it anywhere else.

I agree we all need to jump on this one.

Thanks, twodogs.......D.D. and I spoke a while ago, he's got some shade, in an area with chores to do, and will be back, ...pretty pronto...

I think this thing needs a "sticky".....Krap, we've got ,
...what,like 10 days...?, and "Government Holidays, to boot.....

Guess it's that ole' "Eternal Vigilance" thing sneaking back up on us, ....no....?

GTC

Agree, the title of this thread needs more oomph.

GTC

This thread is starting to remind me of a thalidomide baby.

....just won't get up.

GTC

Dunno' 'bout Roswell Aliens.......

THIS is very real though........

GTC

I posted this on another forum. Seems alot of folks think it wont affect their particular form of shooting.

Michael

It's a move so typically bureaucratic....burying chitt deep in a bucket so nobody will stick their nose in somebody else's business. Well, it do stink I think, and they(OSHA)sure don't make it easy to spread the news as it's all buried in a PDF of over 50 pages filled with more arcane verbiage than the average Massachuchitts Senator is full of. Under the radar....looking like a Three Stepper to me, this one is. I wouldn't be the least surprised to find the fingerprints of a Schumer/Boxer/Feinstein/etc. on this one...back door deals, no legislation to hoot about, just "rules" that carry the full weight of law.

I just ordered a couple of primers and a dash of powder. That'll hold me for a little while, this being summer and so forth. I do hope it's unnecessary...if so I won't feel like a fool, just be shooting a little more.

So, ....all you sportsmen,....

what if the "Immigration Bill" was all just smoke and mirrors,
or a "Smokescreen".....and THIS (OSHA regs) is the poisoned knife.?

HMmmmmm....?

Nasty , and toxic,.....this.

GTC

Well, looks like they are at it again, good find getting this thread up, lets hope more people read it and respond in kind to their elected state representatives on this, we have all known for years that if they couldnt grab our guns, they would find a way to starve them to death....typical back door garbage that has slowly eroded the freedoms of choice for Americans for generations. I need to take the time to read the whole mess word for word, tomorrow is going to be another day of letter writing and phone calls.

btt.

............No problem here, we just can't order from our regular suppliers,.....NO primers, no powder.

Srarting to feel lucky here, ...in typically "Off The Wall"
Mode........

I can raid Mexican "Comandancias" ...for ammo.
(after all,turnaround is fair play)

Where are you going to get your p[lunder...?

Let's just dismiss the "Stocking up"...fortress mentality for a moment,

and think about long term implications......

I ain't that old, and intend to do one hell of a lot more shooting.....

and always love the smell of a fresh 8 pounder.

......Pizz on this Regulation, ....it's anti-American, and facist in it's implications.

Like Hank Jr. said.......we're the M.F.s with the guns.

.....fer cryin' out loud, let's make that clear, and in no uncertain terms.

GTC

I guess I'll just have to trust you guys on this one because this computer dummy never could find the rule. I don't know what I could have done even if I had found it. It's administrative law and it's hard to do much about that stuff.

I got this in my e-mail today...
It's got legs and the changes aren't going under the radar....
Call your Senators folks!!!This is important!!!

Sign me on, I've probably lost some "juice" as I didn't donate to the Repubs last year, I'm pizzed off at all politicians, but Sen. Lisa and Sen. Ted can be expecting phone calls,.............


HOMELAND DEFENSE my azz, yeah take away my right to defend my home and country by leaving me defenseless!

Gonna turn us all into Barney Fife, if we don't act upon it the way I see it.

BTT!

Expand the network...........

Contact your State Game and Fish Comissioners, Wildlife divisions, Outdoor Rec. Associations......they have a stake in this......, and are probably no more aware of this sneak attack, than anyone else we've spoken with.........I guarantee you, they won't be to happy at what you'll have to telll them............DRIVE your point home, and insist on some sorta' formal written response........and policy statement.

This regulation, in place will effectively KILL a large portion of
Pittman-Robertson Funding, to their outfits....and see their work laid to waste................once they understand that, they can work up their food chains.

Might not be so worse an idea to start pushing hard for an EXTENSION of the 12th July "Deadline" for comment..............a holding action, and chance to further mobilise.

Thank you, Garbe for the long, and encouraging B.S. session on land lines this afternoon........and also your "Cautious optimism".

We have, at this time, and realistically, .....4 working business days to deal with this.

Sleep when you're old......deal with this ,....NOW.

Ranch 13 said "Sen. Barrasso was to be holding town meetings in the Basin and over in Lander/Riverton today thru the weekend. Might want to see if you can get some commitment out of him on this, I'm reasonably sure he's a good man."

Youze lucky, ......I've gotta' call John McCain...............

...........the penultimate excercise in futility........brain deados.

Callin' Ted Kennedy's staff must even be worse dittos, Steve.

GTC

Here's some contact information at OSHA, please let your voices be heard on this issue! We suspect the origin of this proposed rule is coming from the UN, but here's the contact for the OSHA office where the proposed rule originated, give him a call, let him know what your feelings are on the matter.
202-693-2255 Donald Pittenver

BTT,.....and grow legs, dammit!

GTC

I'm sure hopin' that some time in the not to distant future we can look at this and laugh, .....proudly patting one another on the back for a good "Eleventh Hour" save......

It is distressing in the extreme to watch what looks like a relatively weak, and apathetic response curve, to this thread.

As it stands right now, a bleak vision of gathering at Raton, and all solemnly nodding at the proposition," Yup, the immigration bill was beat, but the SOBs gutted the 2nd in the same session".......looms.

Bleak visions not my stock in trade.

Let's hear some feedback, and see a few more hats thrown into this ring.

GTC

BTT!

gtc

Plot thickens.....

The plot thickens, click on this ....

and check out the Billary, Obama, Kennedy oversight....OSHA.

HMmmmmmm,

Link: http://help.senate.gov/emplmnt+wrk_safety_%20sub.html

GTC

GENTLEMEN!!!!!
I don't think that y'all understand this...
If you reload,you're screwed!!!
If you buy ammo,you're screwed!!!
Contact BOTH of your Senators right now!!!!
They are banking on a Democrat getting into the Whitehouse and are gonna castrate us with seemingly harmless regulations in the name of public safety....
We all have computers...Use them!!!

I don't think they do, Bart.

Now we've got evening comedians assing around, and looking for jollies.

I encourage no wasted time / bandwidth on the odd inevitable trolls, and ruthless use of ignore functions.

once we've got this thing completely trashed, we can return to deal with that minor nuisance.

GTC

btt

btt

GTC

Here's a direct link for leaving comments (and viewing those already posted).

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocketDetail&d=OSHA-2007-0032

Clink on the top comment icon on the right hand side of page.
This will take you to comment form.

Comments seem to be lagging posting by a day.
As of yesterday, there were only 17 comments.
They should be getting thousands of comments on this!

Aldeer

BTT...Its pretty tough to get in there and make a comment so stick with it guys...I noticed My Senator Tom Coburn is on the sub commitee...He's fixing to get a call...

Comment submitted - senators and reps contacted.

This, just in from an old and dear friend, in Idaho.

"Patty Murray, Kennedy, Obama? "Worker safety issue?" Bullshit!
I know Murray, she is from Washington State and is to the left of Kennedy. QUESTION ANYTHING she is meddling in..."

An adjunct to the ......

Link: http://help.senate.gov/emplmnt+wrk_safety_%20sub.html

............so we all knew from the get go that you can't polish a turd, and that when you start diggin' into filth, ....the smell doesn't generally get better.

I hope that some of youze are stating to pick up on how
"Closely Run" this has been, and how fortunate we are to have this rapid comunications asset at our behest.

Enjoy the 4th,....and on the 5th, ....get out there and kick some serious azz....

Thanks Joe for the heads up on Patty Murray, ....I wouldn't know her from a cow-patty.

GTC

btt

btt

Added to the title at DD's request... This is important stuff and well worth the effort to investigate and write a letter about...
art

Where is the NRA?
Any word from them on all of this?

NRA put out this alert the other day, including sample comments, which someone already posted on the other thread.

John

============

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3145

Aldeer


Text of article is below:

Tuesday, July 03, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has proposed new rules that would have a dramatic effect on the storage and transportation of ammunition and handloading components such as primers or black and smokeless powder. The proposed rule indiscriminately treats ammunition, powder and primers as �explosives.� Among many other provisions, the proposed rule would:

* Prohibit possession of firearms in commercial �facilities containing explosives��an obvious problem for your local gun store.
* Prohibit delivery drivers from leaving explosives unattended�which would make it impossible for delivery services such as UPS to deliver ammunition or gun powder.
* Require evacuation of all �facilities containing explosives��even your local Wal-Mart�during any electrical storm.
* Prohibit smoking within 50 feet of �facilities containing explosives.�

It�s important to remember this is only a proposed rule right now, so there�s still time for concerned citizens to speak out before OSHA issues its final rule. The National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers� Association will all be commenting on these proposed regulations, based on the severe effect these regulations (if finalized) would have on the availability of ammunition and reloading supplies to safe and responsible shooters.

The public comment period ends July 12. To file your own comment, or to learn more about the OSHA proposal, go to http://www.regulations.gov and search for Docket Number OSHA-2007-0032�; you can read OSHA�s proposal and learn how to submit comments electronically, or by fax or mail.

-----------------------------

OSHA Docket Office Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625 200 Constitution Ave., N.W. Washington, DC 20210 Re.: Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 (Explosives�Proposed Rule)

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing in strong opposition to OSHA�s proposed rules on �explosives,� which go far beyond regulating true explosives. These proposed rules would impose severe restrictions on the transportation and storage of small arms ammunition�both complete cartridges and handloading components such as black and smokeless powder, primers, and percussion caps. These restrictions go far beyond existing transportation and fire protection regulations.

As a person who uses ammunition and components, I am very concerned that these regulations will have a serious effect on my ability to obtain these products. OSHA�s proposed rules would impose restrictions that very few gun stores, sporting goods stores, or ammunition dealers could comply with. (Prohibiting firearms in stores that sell ammunition, for example, is absurd�but would be required under the proposed rule.)

The proposed transportation regulations would also affect shooters� ability to buy these components by mail or online, because shipping companies would also have great difficulty complying with the proposed rules. For instance, the rules against leaving any vehicle containing �explosives� unattended would make it impossible for companies such as United Parcel Service to deliver ammunition to businesses or consumers without massive changes in their operations (such as putting a second driver on any truck that might happen to deliver a case of shotgun shells).

There is absolutely no evidence of any new safety hazard from storage or transportation of small arms ammunition or components that would justify these new rules. I also understand that organizations with expertise in this field, such as the National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers� Association, will be submitting detailed comments on this issue. I hope OSHA will listen to these organizations� comments as the agency develops a final rule on this issue.

Sincerely,

crossfireoops, I just went to the link that you supplied and could do nothing on the site. Hopefully because so many were trying to contact them at the same time. I could not even open the FAQ's or anything besides download each document one at a time. miles

I wrote my comments to OSHA on the proposed rule, but when I click on the next step it goes nowhere. I am caught in a look with it returning to my comment page. I am not happy about OSHA's end run on our rights, my senators will be hearding from me!!!!

Suddenly over the loud speaker........

"Attention Walmart customers....we are experiencing an electrical storm at the present time and since we sell firearms ammunition in our Sporting Goods Department we must evacuate the store emediately per OSHA regulations..........oh wait, we don't sell ammo anymore because of the OSHA regs, never mind....enjoy shopping with us today!!"

Go ahead laugh, it ain't one bit funny...........................

Just dialed the phone it's ringing.....




"Hello, Tom's Sporting Goods, how can I help you?"

Yeah how ya doin' today?

"Good"

I'm trying to find a pound of IMR 4831 for my 30-06...got any?

"I'm sorry we sold out of powder and primers 3 months ago when those new OSHA regs took effect, can't afford to sell it anymore because the price is unreal. Besides, we wouldn't be able to store it here anyway because we sell guns too."

Whut? I never figured that OSHA stuff would do that.......

"Yep....."

Well, do you got any 30-06 150 grain factory ammo....??

"Completely sold out of ammo too, ammo was under the same regs....sorry I can't help you"

Dayuum....it's almost Deer Season........

Breaking News...



"President Hillary Rodam Clinton has just declared the National Gun Amnesty/Buy Back Law, which took effect exactly one month after she won the bid for the White House... a huge success. Millions of civilian owned firearms have been turned in all over the Nation to local, state and federal authorities. Vice President Schumer is elated with the results. Estimated cost to the tax payers is a paultry 10 dollars per gun and Schumer says that's a small price to pay for Homeland Security....."

"In an interview with one former gun owner who just left the Dade County Police Department.....his reply was, "Well, I couldn't buy ammo for 'em any more so why not get rid of 'em."

"More on this historic saga later tonight on the 11:00 news..............."

The phone is ringing again.......callin' Midway.




"We're sorry, the number you have dialed is no longer in service........"

Wave that Flag today folks, and remember Freedom ain't [bleep]' free............

Art, thanks much, appreciate the help here!

For those looking for particular folks to chat with....They being thems what oversee OSHA...

SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS

Democrats by Rank

Patty Murray (WA)
Christopher Dodd (CT)
Tom Harkin (IA)
Barbra Mikulski (MD)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY)
Barack Obama (IL)
Sherrod Brown (OH)
Edward Kennedy (MA) (ex officio)

Republicans by Rank

Johnny Isakson (GA)
Richard Burr (NC)
Lisa Murkowski (AK)
Pat Roberts (KS)
Wayne Allard (CO)
Tom Coburn (OK)
Michael Enzi (WY) (ex officio)

I'd be wishing I could post the full prose of the NPRM but it's 55 pages. As to the matter of OSHA's comment page shenanigans....why doesn't that surprise? Make sure you discuss that issue with your reps....please.

Bart had this in his initial postings.....an active site, with some interesting dialogue as to just why your comments are not coming up on the Regs web-board.

Link: http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9122&highlight=

Thank you all for jumping into this, and taking the time to shake some trees.

GTC

This in, yesterday, from Iowa.....

"By golly, NRA finally pu the message out!

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3145

TL

Here are a couple more forums where this is being discussed. It's starting to show up on Google searches, looks like the legs are starting to grow.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=285452

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=151495

Jim

Just saw the thread, sorry for the delay. Wrote both my senators and commented on the OSHA site my opposition to the rule changes.
Hope this helps.
Bill

You're not the only one who missed this thread. Senators are being contacted and I'll be visiting the OSHA sight. Forwarding the info. to those at my F&G club as well.

George

I live in NY I don't have Senators,I have Azzhats!Sent my disapproval comments to OSHA!

This thing is gatherin' steam...we got a convoy yet?

Guys, there's some sorta' rumor ( no offence to the person that brought it up......cuz' if it's true, that's good news )

Basically it's been proposed, on one of the many sites running hard on this issue, that we can request a 60 day extension period of the " Public Review and comment period"

Have your brief and succinct request for this extension cut and copied, and get it on that OSHA site, pronto like. The "Comments" window will "Time Out" if you loiter long in composition. I've finally got some of my communication to take, there......and wonder of wonders, they respond with a tracking number, ....so you can go back and check. There WILL be a lag in your posts appearing.......each "comment" apparently has to be individually moderated.

Thank you for all your efforts, and keep at it.

We NEED that extension, ....big time,.....with 60 days to work this, we will assuredly put this thing in the compost pile.

As it stands right now, we have FOUR working business days left to unflaggingly generate a storm of well articulated and legitamate concern....and pile it up on elected Reps desks.

GTC

Hey GTC...Do you know yyet if the NRA is onto this?

Yes, we are--I posted our alert and sample comments earlier.

John

Can't hurt to re-post a "Never Sweat" fast track access to the OSHA Regs / Comments page again.

link: http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocketDetail&d=OSHA-2007-0032

Anyone having trouble getting all this electronic beaurocrapcy to work....please let us know, and we'll walk you through it.

GTC

Thanks for posting these instructions. I just submitted a comment with the website. I'll be cutting and pasting an email with your info to everyone I know in the shooting sports.

My lazy bad John..thanks.

I forwarded my comments as requested GTC!

Heck Crossfire, even I figured out how to submit. Did it last nite. A call to my senators is out though. They are the 2 prime scumbags.

I tried to get on the Hide to see if those boys are fired up on this...

Can't get on there, what's up with the Hide?

Here's something From Kirk Bryan (Shilo Forums).....yesterday, I think...more information regardig this Gov. Regs website.

***************************

"Entered on 07/03/2007 at 17:16:31 by kirk bryan:
I along with several others have been trying to comment on docket osha-2007-0032 and our
comments are not being posted. All of the comments oppose the ruling, please check this out!

Detailed Description of Request:
Entered on 07/03/2007 at 17:33:09 by Lon D:
Mr. Kirk,
Comments are not posted automatically. The docket manager will review the comments before posting them. Each agency has its own timeframe for posting comments (e.g., 2 days, 4 days, 1 week, etc.). Did you receive a message that your comment had been sent?
Lon
Regulations.gov Helpdesk
1-877-378-5457

**************************

It's going to be real interesting seein' that Phone number come into play.....it's an automated menu, ...but may be worth a shot.
VOLUME, ....sheer bloody VOLUME may be the deterministic factor in tipping this top........."Docket Manager....? " Let's hope he's on the ball.

GTC

Maybe Stick took everyone with him

btt

Pardon me gents, as may be true of many here, it appears my head has been stuck up my accounts of historical events.

The sneakiest attack yet on the shooting sports that I can recall

Thanks for the notification, and the links.

Birdwatcher

Sneaky, and eerily / evily brilliant,......

something that must die.

GTC

From another site,.....unverified, but sure looks credible

GTC

http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?...R=BP070207.cfm


Proposed OSHA Regulation Threatens Firearm and Ammunition Industry

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the government agency charged with assuring the safety and health of America's workers, is proposing a regulatory rule affecting the manufacturing, transportation and storage of small arms ammunition, primers and smokeless propellants.

As written, the proposed rule would force the closure of nearly all ammunition manufacturers and force the cost of small arms ammunition to skyrocket beyond what the market could bear�essentially collapsing our industry. This is not an exaggeration. The cost to comply with the proposed rule for the ammunition industry, including manufacturer, wholesale distributors and retailers, will be massive and easily exceed $100 million. For example, ammunition and smokeless propellant manufacturers would have to shut down and evacuate a factory when a thunderstorm approached and customers would not be allowed within 50 feet of any ammunition (displayed or otherwise stored) without first being searched for matches or lighters.

NSSF and SAAMI have already had a preliminary meeting with OSHA officials to begin the process of explaining to them the major problems this proposed rule presents for all levels of the firearms and ammunition industry. Furthermore, NSSF and SAAMI are each seeking a 60 day extension of the public comment period (currently scheduled to expire July 12).

NSSF is urging all retailers to contact OSHA directly and request a 60-day extension of the public comment period. Retailers should inform OSHA that the proposed rule constitutes a "significant regulatory action" as defined in Executive Order 12866 (1993) Section 3(f)(1) in that it will clearly "adversely affect in a material way" the retail sector of the firearms and ammunition industry, productivity, competition and jobs and that the annual compliance cost for all retailers of ammunition will far exceed $100 million dollars.

Click here for a template letter. If you choose to draft your own letter, the reference line must read as follows:

RE: Docket No. OSHA�2007�0032
Request to Extend Public Comment Period and Request for Hearing on
"Significant Regulatory Action" as Defined in Executive Order 12866

Please fax the letter to: 202-693-1648 (include the docket number and Department of Labor/OSHA on the cover sheet and in the reference section of your letter).

Please e-mail the letter by visiting: http://www.regulations.gov and following the submission instructions.
__________________

What's up with this? Everytime I go to the linked URL I get a "timed out due to inactivity" I tried the link, I tried the comments, I went to 'USASEARCH.gov. I went to osha.gov. I went to their comment page from their home page. Every route I use gets the same comment. Does any one know what is up?

Not surprised to hear of this news from our government. See signature.

Stock up while ya can.

Batch, ....have your "comment's" already typed and copied, once you've filled in all the required fields, there's barely time to paste in comments, and proceed.

It took me quite a while to get this to work, too.

CONTACTING YOUR ELECTED REPS is phase 2, and perhaps the more critical part of our response to this assault.

GTC

Keepin' it at the top!!!

A sad, and bittersweet reflection....out East of me, a coupla' time zones, .....Young kids are at this moment awestruck.....Hot dogs, Corn on the cob, Soda Pops, and Ice Cream....Classic Patriotic Music, and the thunder of aerial bombs, Star clusters, and all the magical colors that go with good firework art.
What could typify the 4th July more than running around with sparklers.......?

Our big shows will start in an 1 1/2, ....and from my yard, I'll be able to see bursts over about a 50 Mi. radius, from 3 or 4 towns........as well as the "Illicit" local backyard works, smuggled in from N.M.

It's very unsettling to contemplate the prospect of this being the last "Real" 4th, ........but sadly prerequisite to confronting the implications outlined in all the threads that have sprung up, ....over the last 3-4 days.

Lord Willin', the fabric of this Nation don't tear quite as easily as what these derilict liberal socialist traitors and sell-out artists think it might.

Those of you that believe in a little quiet and focused prayer every now and than............,I reckon that tonight wouldn't be all that bad a time to offer up a few invocations.

I've been thinkin' about a 1lb. blank load outta' my Mountain Howitz., but think I'll wait 'til this OSHA regs crap is in the grave....and than make a celebratory move of that sort.

Keepin' it at the top dittos, Okie.

GTC

BTT

don't forget this will probably apply to FIREWORKS too!

think of all the states that sell fireworks!

No more fireworks shows either.....

This needs to be kept at the top. I have commented at the OSHA level and just emailed our Fish and Wildlife director. I remember a couple of gun owning Dems stating they wont get our guns........ If this goes through they wont need them to disarm us.
Tom

btt

bump.........

Elected officials contacted.

Just sent my comments to OSHA and the Congress Critters are next.

HBB

All my Congress Critters have been contacted.

HBB

Man, this is pathetic...

Just made a trip down to the local shop to trade for some powder and primers.

Tried to explain to the store owner what this was all about. He and several other customers standing around looked at me like I was talkin' Greek or something. I tried to drive home the point that this would severely impact the sale of guns and ammo and could put shops like his out of business....and all I got was a blank stare.

I can't believe how non-serious this is being taken.

bump

Not surprising given the almost bovine nature of a large cross section of the population

HBB

W.W.

...........I can tell you that the last 5-6 days, of trying to get some attention focused on this have been frought with some of the most supremely frustrating moments of my entire life.

...........Apathy, and worse, snide "I told you it would always come to this".....smart azzing can leave one chewin' nails, ...and spitting rust.

Like Garbe said "Hillary is counting on you to be "too busy."

Breath deep, center up, .....continue to march.

We ARE going to beat this back into the cesspool it crawled outta'

GTC

This just in from Lee.....good idea, methinks,

**********************

" just got off the phone with the Washington DC office of NRA. I suggested to them that they contact their all their Arms Industry connections and ask them to pressure the Department Of Defense (DOD) to tell OSHA to put a lid on this proposed rule change. My reasoning being, if the Arms Industry looses it's civilian market, that will have a very large negative financial impact on them. This could negatively impact their ability to adequately meet the needs of DOD. So, DOD would have a very vested interest in telling OSHA to put a lid on it.

Y'all may remember that back a few years AFT (Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco) passed some new rules making the handling of explosives very difficult. This seriously impacted on the Arms Industry's ability to supply DOD. So, DOD went to ATF and told them to cut out the crap. ATF cut out the crap and things went back to normal. Maybe this avenue of approach could work for this situation.

The fellow at NRA indicated that NRA was approaching this from the infringement on 2nd Amendment Rights direction. Well, that goes so far and has been used a lot. Yes, it should be used now too, but, it needs additional pressure to be brought to bear, and DOD could do it.

Here is the Washington DC phone number for NRA if anyone thinks this is a good idea and wishes to also suggest NRA investigate this approach. After all, if the civilian shooting sportgs go away, what need is there for the NRA?

202-651-2560

So call them and maybe this could help.
_________________
Lee Stone
SHILOH SHARPS RIFLE TEAM
ASSRA Life
NRA Life
SASS Life "

***********************************

GTC

"We have met the enemy...and he is us."

How very true.............

There's a local site here I post a bunch on, around 500 or so members. I cut,copied and pasted a bunch of this on there, as many links as I could find, and posted alerts on all the pages to get everyone down to the gun and ammo page...so everyone could get a shot in at it.

Nuthin'.......

I got one PM from one guy saying he'd have responded but he din't want red dots on his forehead whilst he was sleeping.

The fishin' pages however on that site are kickin' ass on walleyes and smallmouth.....

Sheeple is as Sheeple do..............

------------------SAMPLE LETTER----------------------

OSHA Docket Office Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032
U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625
200 Constitution Ave., N.W.
Washington, DC 20210

Re.: Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 (Explosives�Proposed Rule)

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing in strong opposition to OSHA�s proposed rules on �explosives,� which go far beyond regulating true explosives. These proposed rules would impose severe restrictions on the transportation and storage of small arms ammunition�both complete cartridges and handloading components such as black and smokeless powder, primers, and percussion caps. These restrictions go far beyond existing transportation and fire protection regulations.

As a person who uses ammunition and components, I am very concerned that these regulations will have a serious effect on my ability to obtain these products. OSHA�s proposed rules would impose restrictions that very few gun stores, sporting goods stores, or ammunition dealers could comply with. (Prohibiting firearms in stores that sell ammunition, for example, is absurd�but would be required under the proposed rule.)

The proposed transportation regulations would also affect shooters� ability to buy these components by mail or online, because shipping companies would also have great difficulty complying with the proposed rules. For instance, the rules against leaving any vehicle containing �explosives� unattended would make it impossible for companies such as United Parcel Service to deliver ammunition to businesses or consumers without massive changes in their operations (such as putting a second driver on any truck that might happen to deliver a case of shotgun shells).

There is absolutely no evidence of any new safety hazard from storage or transportation of small arms ammunition or components that would justify these new rules. I also understand that organizations with expertise in this field, such as the National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers� Association, will be submitting detailed comments on this issue. I hope OSHA will listen to these organizations� comments as the agency develops a final rule on this issue.

Sincerely,

.

Wrote both senators and my state Rep. Took all of ten mins or less. Lets get on it. 757

Blammer,



It ain't a bet, it's in the language of the NPRM....call it a done deal if this gets thru.

Bumpity bumb.

The angle I took was that the intent of the IME/SAAMI petition that spawned this proposal was to update the rule to reflect safer modern technology and work practices and strike out OSHA transportation regulations since they are already covered by DOT. Then those OSHA committee folks turn around and use this petition as an opportunity to INCREASE regulation. The proposed rule goes on to show need by CITING DISASTERS FROM 1944 AND 1947! I could find no modern examples of disasters or even incidents that would support the change regarding small arms ammo and components.

Thanks for speaking up about this, letting us know.

Clang, Bump, ....crash, ......!

Let's get it on, ...

GTC

This just in, from Garbe....

"Gentlemen,

Irregardless of your opinion of Rush Limbaugh, send him an e-mail about the OSHA regulations. The guy has three hours of air time and right now we need to get as many folks aware and talking about this as possible. If there are a bunch of e-mails coming in to his show he will probably pick up the controversy. With Hillary and Teddy siting on the oversight committee for OSHA he will love to get more poop on them.

I just did it and it was very easy. Web address is [email protected]

We can't leave any stone unturned...

Gute Ziele,

Steve

Two Senators, 3 Congressmen and Florida F&G. I have come to the conclusion that stupid staffers go hand in hand with brainless politicians...they OTOH are fully aware that there is at least one small segment of their electorate that is foaming at the mouth.

Angry letter to follow shortly.

I left my comments here.

OSHA proposal

I think it on page 18 of the Documents open for public comment link.
Can't hurt to leave yours as well.

DT

I just emailed both of the Senators here. If I don't get a response I'll have to give them a call.

Called and sent email to both of my Senators. I believe one of them (Isakson) sits on the oversite committee too.

The invitation for public comments, and details of the changes are lengthy. I all fairness, OSHA is asking for comments on whether retail stores ought to be included in the proposed regulations. The regulation applies to safe workplaces, not to home use.

If you file comments, I suggest that you identify the page and issue you are addressing.

One incident used as a reason for the new and improved regulations is the 1947 Texas City incident where large quantities of ammonium nitrate came in contact with fuel, and exploded. What they apparently don't realize is that adequate safety regulations were in place at time time, and the explosion resulted from a government agency decision to bypass them. So... pass more regulations on private industry, because 60 years ago, the government bypassed safety regulations and blew up a town. That certainly follows logically, doesn't it?

"Explosives" are re-defined to include small arms ammunition, smokeless powder, and primers.

With a straight face, they are asking if they ought to make regulations such that nobody can light a cigarette, or have a loose spark plug wire within 50 feet of a store that sells ammunition, smokeless powder, or explosives. They also ask if they should make a regulation barring anyone from bringing a firearm or ammunition into a store that contains.... firearms and ammunition.

I've filed about four pages of comments, and finally had to give up and go on to other things.

If you file, you can object to a regulation because it is not technically feasible (a retail store can't possibly prevent smoking 50 feet away from the store), or because it is not economically feasible (greatly increases cost, or provides no benefit commensurate with cost). Philosophical arguments against intrusive regulation, etc. are not going to have any effect.

If you go to this link, scroll down to Option 4. From the category box, pick Document Title, and then enter explosive as the search word. The subject proposed regulation will pop up. You can then view/download the document. On the far right, there is a comments column, and an icon you can click to file your comments. I suggest that you file in PDF format, and that in the title of your comments, you include the OSHA document ID, the date, and your name and address.

I've been lurking awhile. I e-mailed my Senator, Pat Roberts, one of those sitting on OSHA's oversite committee. Sounds like the NRA is asleep on Guard Duty once again. Maybe drunk too.

boot in azz

Very few people taking it seriously I guess. Oh well, I've been on the team that turned the tide before and then been laughed at because it wasn't a real threat. Got to just keep on keepin' on.

'n the hell is this doing this far down front page.....?!

Oh, I know....."Liesure time"

You'll have more when you no longer have to re-load.

's OK, they'll probably come up with medication....

Triggagra, or sumpin'.

Wish more folks would jump into this.....

GTC

Where are some of those who have 5000 posts and are always quick with a joke?

As for my self I've been busy sending letters and e-mails to them guvment tipes.

Call Your Senators NOW!!!!
Edited....

Ya'll save any pissing contests 'till after this settles.

I mean that.

this, just in from "Ole Gabe"

Well, hmmmm...
Not sure if this story that is making the rounds today has anything to do with the rest of it, but it sures seems timely don't it? In a 'Google search' on the Exec. order #, the timeline is interesting to say the least.
Best regards and good reading!
'Ol Gabe
.....................................................................
Bush makes a power play
Order would boost White House control of rules

July 4, 2007

BY JIM ABRAMS

ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON -- President George W. Bush is giving an obscure White House office new powers this month over regulations affecting health, worker safety and the environment.

Executive Order 13422, which is to take effect July 24, requires federal officials to show that companies, people or institutions failed to address a problem before agencies can write regulations to tackle it. It also gives political appointees greater authority over how the regulations are written.

The House, however, voted last week on a measure to prohibit the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs from spending federal money on Bush's order.

The House measure "stops this president or any president from seizing the power to rewrite almost every law that Congress passes, laws that protect public health, the environment, safety, civil rights, privacy and on and on," said Rep. Brad Miller, D-N.C., the measure's sponsor.

The vote came on an amendment to a bill that funds the White House. The bill goes to the Senate when Congress returns next week.

Bush's order:

� Requires agencies to identify what it calls "market failures," in which the private sector fell short in dealing with a problem, as a factor in proposing a rule. The White House regulatory affairs office is given authority to assess those conclusions.

� Says that no rulemaking can go forward without the approval of an agency's regulatory policy office to be headed by a presidential appointee.

� Directs each agency to provide an estimate of costs and benefits of regulations.

� Requires agencies to inform the White House regulatory affairs office of proposed significant documents on complying with rules.

"This can only further delay implementing health, safety and environmental protections," said Gary Bass, executive director of OMB Watch, a private watchdog group that joined groups including the AFL-CIO, Public Citizen and the Union of Concerned Scientists in opposing Bush's order.

In an April report, Miller's science oversight subcommittee said the regulatory office "has quietly grown into the most powerful regulatory agency in Washington."

The administration contends that Bush's order merely strengthens a 1993 directive issued by President Bill Clinton.

Andrea Wuebker, a spokeswoman for the Office of Management and Budget, said Bush's order, along with an OMB guidance bulletin, "will help increase the quality, accountability and transparency of agency guidance documents."

But the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, in an analysis in February, said the new oversight over significant guidance documents "may represent a major expansion of the office's (and therefore the president's) influence."

The text of Executive Order 13422 is online at www.whitehouse.gov/news/orderscq-dr.
.

i posted comments, the NRA_ILA is trying to extend the comment period by 60 days. I also talked to my Senators (Hatch, & Bennett). Their offices were pissed to say the least !!
If fact, the judiciary office head I talked to was going to talk to the NRA right after getting off the phone with me, as was Bennett's guy.

Yessir.....
Sorry GTC..
This is important....

I posted the one above by Ole Gabe....

Damned if I understand it, though....just behaving like a good corespondent, ...and that's all.

....Talked on a land line about an hour ago, with Arizona Game and Fish "Ombudsman"

We waded around in the shallows for a while,......and once we got off into the deep water, he quite candidly acknowledged that he hadn't heard a thing about this, ...prior.

So, I fowarded him a link to this thread.

Some of youze that haven't been "In the Bucket" with this, for the last five days are incouraged to leave your attitude at the gate.

I'm going to go beyond that, and request that the moderators clean out all the "BTTs" and "Bumps"...as well as any smart Azzed off topic comments.

I don't know how many of you are following how many other threads, on how many other sites....so will tell you this, ....NOW!

.......there is more good linkage, and concise information available here, ....regarding this "Pearl Harbor" style sneak attack, ....than can be found most anywhere's else.

Please, with sugar on top....keep it real clean, and if your comments aren't germane to good solid legislative alert / civicly resposible / Sportsmanlike conduct.....put them somewhere else.

I, personally, am using links to this thread as preliminary intro to the subject, with people that I (for one) would just as soon not see confused by a bunch of juvenile assing around.

So, Moderators, can you clean this up for us....?
(this post included)

It is an icon, you know, a point of referance.....so let's act, and post accordingly

GTC

I cleaned up my post. And a big thanks to denton for expounding upon the details of the Texas City disaster.

Emailed my Republican Rep and Senator. I won't waste time and energy on the dems in this State!

Same here. Contacted the Republicans. The Dems would probaly just make fun of my grammar anyway. Also E-mailed Oregon Fish and Game.

Very disturbing indeed. I sent a couple letters. Probably won't even get read.

Sen Stabenow's respone on an earlier subject:

Thank you . . .



. . . for contacting me and sharing your views about gun control. I share your support for our Second Amendment rights.



I grew up in Clare, Michigan, and many in my family are avid hunters and fishermen. I felt very comfortable growing up with guns in our home and I understand the importance of legal gun ownership. I do not support any efforts to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, but I do support the enforcement of laws stopping minors and criminals from illegally purchasing guns.



I believe that a top priority should be to enforce our current laws. To that end, I am actively working to increase the number of local prosecutors and enforcement agents. I have also spoken out a number of times for law abiding gun owners by supporting legislation to: prohibit the use of funds for retaining records on firearm buyers whose purchases are approved through the National Instant Check System; set a legal deadline for the destruction of such records for the first time; and prohibit the FBI from charging a user fee for its National Instant Check System because I feel that the FBI's proposed $14 charge was equivalent to a tax on guns.



My goal as Senator is to protect the rights of law abiding citizens, while recognizing the need to protect our children and our families from gun violence and other criminal activity. If we work together, I believe common sense will prevail.



Again, thank you for contacting me. Please feel free to do so again whenever I may be of assistance in the future.



Sincerely,

Debbie Stabenow

United States Senator

Sen Levin is a piece of shiite and Rep Miller won't even repond.

I don't think there'll be much problem throwing a "War Chest" fund together, for those strapped enough to shy away from being put on "hold" and listening to elevator music, while waiting for an Ombudsman, or Legislative Liason from your Gameand Fish Dept to get with youze...........one on one. Mebbe we need to get an action line going, but I'm not sure about routing through one central switchboard. Certainly this damn "Issue" (That's "ISHA" fer' you rednecks).....bears consideration of this sorta' action.
'S not my area so will leave that suggestion hanging.....pending more proffesional input.

I'm in luck, with a "Long Distance plan".....and my right ear is curling up, and starting to look like a Conch Shell.....whether from the elevator music, or over nutritiated by B.S., I can't say..............as prior noted do not expect to reach anyone that's well appraised of this situation. Reverse engineering things.....if anyone DOES reach an elected rep, or State Factotum that's in the loop.......please post that, it might be a first.

I will say that "ranting" is not going to cut it, and that every time that you do make contact with one of these factotums, it's a signifigant advance over letter, fax or E-mail.....have your ducks in a row, and hammer home your point with well aimed strikes....diplomacy foremost. If you have to kiss ass to get it done....do so.....

Thank you, one and all for the groundswell.

Regards, GTC

dang

Mac,

It probably won't make you feel any better, but I haven't heard anything from any of my elected officials either. I guess I'll have to press the issue via phone tomorrow.

George

From "A site that can't be mentioned", and just in, ....encouragement....

"Here is Hodgon's reply.
Thanks for writing. This topic has been around for some time and we have been involved in educating OSHA about the issue. Not only are independent companies involved but the industry as a whole is involved through the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute and the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

We really do not think these proposals have much of a chance. They are now going after HUGE money with the ammunition industry. ATK, which owns Federal and CCI is the largest munitions contractor in the world and Olin, which owns Winchester Ammunition is one of the largest Chemical companies providing materials to the U.S. Government. These two big boys are in the fight and they are working with the rest of us to suppress this action."

***************************

My call would be not to even think of "resting on the oars"

Charge hard, and make your own individual voice / opinion heard.

GTC

Sad as it is to state, ......it would seem that the NRA is as blindsided as the rest of us....and per today's discussion with ILA Div. " we have our Lawyers working on it".....?

Occurs to me that all of the Slimeballs involved in the Senatorial oversight group are "Lawyers" turned "Politicos" too.

Your point is very well taken E.E.

Just for the record,......a call to NRA ILA 5 days ago indicated that these guys were as dumb and blind as the rest of us, regarding this........"we're checking it out"

Today, I heard " We're in the same situation that you are."

Okay, so this is from someone answering a "Hot Line".

Still pretty lame,.....in that the consistant theme of my NRA / ILA incoming mail is "Sky Falling, Funds Requested".......I mean there's people being PAID to stay on top of this nonsense, ...No?
Any of you going to be compensated for your time invested...?

....this one fell through a crack, and I don't hink recriminations, and back-biting's in order,....YET.

Certainly not in the middle of a battle.

.........But we don't really want to be tied up on these kinda' details for the rest of our life, either, ....do we?

"Watchdogs" are going to have to be fed a bit more raw meat, methinks, and trained to smell threats better.

Confident that this "Shake Up" will play,. and well, too.

Thanks,

GTC

This is very discouraging for me. I have been tryin to awaken folks to this but all I get is that "Times Change" We have to give up some things for our safety. I want to puke!

Michael

This is a bad time, for me. I'm going away for a bit, but I put the pressure on as much as I could today. Please keep the campfire lit under their ...

Re:
DEPARTMENT OF LABOR
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
29 CFR Part 1910
[Docket No. OSHA�2007�0032 (formerly
Docket No. OSHA�S031�2006�0665]

To Whom it may Concern,

As a consumer of small arms ammunition and components,
I request an extension of the comment period on 29 CFR Part 1910,
Proposed Rule OSHA�2007�0032. The proposed rule appears logically inconsistent in its conception and reasoning regarding small arms ammunition and components.To wit, The history of the proposed rule is that OSHA received a petition from SAAMI and IME to update section 1910.109 to reflect significant technology and safety advances and to remove transportation regulations since they are covered by DOT. Nowhere in the summary of the IME/SAAMI petition in sec. 1910.109 was there a request to increase regulation on small arms ammunition and components. The proposed rule goes far beyond the original intent of the petition that inspired the proposed rule itself. The proposed rule cites disasters from dates 1944 and 1947 as examples for the need of revision. Nowhere in the proposed rule are modern examples of either disasters or small incidents cited that would prove or even suggest the need for a more restrictive change to the rule governing small arms ammunition and components.

Sincerely,
David F. Lowry

bump

Rain here...blessed rain....

The "attitude adjusment" rant was just that......

chalk it up to battle fatigue, ....HMmmm.

We're going to win this......

with little or no help from egotists....

Or wannabes, on line comandoes......this IS the real deal,

jump in, both feet, and participate

and worthy of blessings, this Republic won't fail,

At least, not on our watch.

GTC

richard burr is from Nc he supports the shooting sports he was against that last gun legislation they tried to sneak through

Holding Tom Coburns (OK senator) feet to the fire here. He is on the sub commitee. Passing it on to the locals here that I know will get off their butts and do something. Will post responceses as they come in....

Am I mistaken to believe that any OSHA regulation that impact upon commerce or other federal jurisdictional baliwicks, must first be approved by Congress?

I hope not...

Frankly, I hope so!

You got a point there...

It's interesting. If this goes through, it's going to create a huge black market. Maybe not as big as the one for illegal drugs, but along those lines.

Up until now, it's been a matter of pride for a lot of gun folks to call themselves "law-abiding citizens," as if that were something to be proud of.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when it's impossible for gun folks to be law-abiding citizens. These days, (most) gun folks own bolt-action rifles but not machine guns, 30-caliber ammunition but not grenades, smokeless powder but not plastic explosive, because the one is available to the "law-abiding" and the other is not. When the playing field switches to "in for a penny, in for a pound" and it's no more dangerous to own and shoot submachine guns than it is to own and shoot muzzleloaders, I wonder what will happen.

We'll have a lot of the less serious players toddle entirely out of the gun culture, of course, because to them it will still be reflexively important to be "law-abiding" (it won't occur to them to wonder why it's important).

But I'm wondering what'll happen on the black market.

Oh--to you folks who are desperately groveling before agents of the government and beseeching them to deign to look down on you from their exalted positions and have mercy on you and your petitions...c'mon, you're embarrassing me. Show some backbone.

Hopefully, we all knew that this was going to come sooner or later. Most of us didn't know what form it would take, but we knew if we wanted to keep owning guns we were going to have to go toe-to-toe with the government sooner or later. And if you look around and see what's happening to the gun culture by degrees, it's difficult to say anything other than that sooner is better. If we as a group are simply going to wilt and turn in our guns, okay, fine, let's get it over with; but if we're not, then let's make our stand while enough of us still have them to at least make national news.

I don't want to see, "Oh please, please, please, Mr. Government Savior and Messiah, please don't let those big nasty ol' OSHA people make those rules!" I want to see, "You wanna make your stupid rules, OSHA? Fine--go ahead and make your stupid rules, and see what happens! We'll teach you 'bout a little thing called 'unintended consequences.'"

Dammit Oops...

I want you watchin' my back when the chitt hits.

If I can keep you reigned in long enough to stay there..........

A note from the Group W bench:

Appreciating the growing interest in this matter as I had deep concerns early on that perhaps there was no traction with which to contest the issue.

Carry on,

Dan

PS: Take no prisoners

Here's my comment:

This rule change is a weak attempt to limit access for law abiding citizens to common and necessary ingredients for several national pasttimes, including competition shooting, recreational shooting, historical reenactments, and hunting.

The additional regulations governing shipment of gunpowder will make this products prohibitively expensive and will not increase worker safety. I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with this rule change.

Yours can be put here:

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main

Step 1 = OSHA
Step 2 = PROPOSED RULES

Click Submit

Look for the row for the 'Explosives' Rule and click the comment button all the way on the right.

I kind of agree with Barak on this one. If this were still America, we wouldn't really give a damn about some silly little law like this because we would all ignore it.

As it is, I think this rule is reaches too far for them to enforce and as such, it won't see the light of day.

Say what you will about him, Rush is talking about the issue on the air now.

4bear...What's the gist, if you don't mind?

He presented it as a back door effort for gun control. Lers see if he gets a response.

Comments just sent to OSHA, Senators Kyl and McCain.

Doug~RR

Seeing this go National Talk Radio is sure nice.....

Won't be surprised if a deluge of additional e-mail to "Rushbo" doesn't see a feature coverage in the coming week.

Anyone have a handle on contacting M. Savage...?

Wouldn't mind seein' him on this detail, too.

Ok, ....continue to fire for effect, and keep your tubes cool.

GTC

Red Rabbit,

# for Az. Game and fish, .....602 942 3000

"Ombudsman".....Marty Fabritz mfabritz @ azgfd.gov

"Legislative liason".....Tony Guiles

when I spoke to "Ombudsman" yesterday, late afternoon, he was completely in the dark on this.

Might be worth a call.....Lemme know how your call pans out.

GTC

Having a good thunderstorm here in Flagstaff now, so will have to vacate the house as I am storing smokeless propellents and primers on an open shelf. Will stand under a tall pine outside to stay dry as I am sure it will be safer. Wink.

Oops, thanks for the contact info.

Doug~RR

Best guess for contacting Savage would be through the EIB network, same place Rush hangs his hat.

Birds of a feather.

Back when I was packing without a permit, I never felt the need to go up and spit in a cops face just to show how brave I was.
I'm thinking that those who stand up and scream " I'll never obey unfair laws" do nothing but mark themselves and make the list of those to be watched
You can expect a lot of quiet disobediance if this happens.

For a bump and a link to the Senate sub-committee that oversees OSHA.

=================================================================

http://help.senate.gov/emplmnt+wrk_safety_%20sub.html

SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS

Democrats by Rank

Patty Murray (WA)
Christopher Dodd (CT)
Tom Harkin (IA)
Barbra Mikulski (MD)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY)
Barack Obama (IL)
Sherrod Brown (OH)
Edward Kennedy (MA) (ex officio)

Republicans by Rank

Johnny Isakson (GA)
Richard Burr (NC)
Lisa Murkowski (AK)
Pat Roberts (KS)
Wayne Allard (CO)
Tom Coburn (OK)
Michael Enzi (WY) (ex of

If you have guns--or even if you might have guns--you're on the list of those to be watched.

There may or may not be in existence right now somewhere in the government an illicit list intended to contain all American gun owners; but if push ever comes to shove, it'll be pretty easy for any government investigator who isn't a complete idiot to find out whether your house is worth searching for the kind of guns that might one day be a menace to the Chuck Schumer / Dianne Feinstein sort.

The trick is not to keep the government from knowing whether you have guns, but to keep it from knowing how many guns you have.


That would be nice.

There's no option for legislative veto of agency decisions since INS v. Chadha (1983). If Congress properly delegated a power to regulate within the statute, it takes an act of Congress (both houses + presidential signature) to overturn the agency's decision, unless the decision is arbitrary, capricious, etc.

Now we're on the same page.

Oops,
Tony Guiles, the AZ GFD government liaison, is on vacation until Tuesday. Ben Alteneder, the assistant liaison, was unaware. I emailed both information and links to the OSHA rule, NRA, and this forum.

Perhaps we should all contact our Game and Fish Departments as they all have a vested interest.

Doug~RR

The Fourth of July week is hugly popular for vacationers...

Am bettin' this was a factor in how this came out under the radar.

I've been halfway expecting something like this.
Could some of the work to push thru the immigration bill be an attemt to get us to use up all our energy on that, while they slipped a few things in under cover of all the smoke?

I've dropped a note to Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit about this. He is a law professor, active RKBA supporter, and prominent blogger.

His blog is one of the most widely read. If we can get him to post something about this, it will cause a lot more interest in the issue.

I suggest that you all go there, and drop him an email.

Me thinks we would all be shocked beyond belief at what kinda grain the grist mill grinds.........

Got my brother, my 2 sons and my wife to make comments.

Of course we're concerned--that's why we put out the alert--but I'm optimistic in the long run. We'll have our comments in next week.

Yup, bigger than hell, W.W.

ANY State Fish and Game agency should be interested in the fact that the larger percentage of Pittman-Robertson funding came perilously close to being denied them.

I think it's a bit premature to call out any kinda' win on this....."Cautiously optimistic" would better define my own mindset.........the 60 day extension is really up to us , now......and we still have a lot of time, and energy ( that not sucked by vampiric naysaying doom / gloom types, that is)...to DEMAND this extension.......and get it.

ASSING around, and indulging personal agends, as opposed to just saying, "This is worth riding for".....well, I guess that may be a nuisance, ......

It's pretty Damned inspirational to contemplate where this effort has gone, since 07 02 07.......No?

gtc

Those who think they can disobey these regs and go on, life as usual, will be sadly mistaken. It's just like the '68 GCA and every subsequent gun law...it doesn't matter what the little guy does or doesn't do, FEDEX, et al WILL obey the law and there will simply be no affordable ammo. Same thing happened when all the gun dealers got FFL's and were obedient to the '68 GCA.

Like it or not we better hang in there and get this scotched.

THank you for that brilliant piece of inspirational text, defeatist.

Moving on, to the REAL business of this thread, THIS, just in

***********************************

"OSHA Visits Wonderland
by David Calderwood
by David Calderwood


DIGG THIS

Published to cricket-chirping silence in the Federal Register on April 13, 2007 was a rule proposed by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to govern the manufacture, transport, and distribution of explosives.

The Alice-in-Wonderland aspect is that the rule includes small arms ammunition and reloading components like smokeless propellant and small arms primers in its definition of �explosives.� If the rule were implemented as written, it would effectively eliminate the manufacture, transport, wholesaling and retailing of ammunition in the United States.

You read that correctly.

For years anti-private-gun-ownership zealots have wished that another head of the federal regulatory hydra, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, would �ban guns� as articles too dangerous for mere civilian mortals to handle or own. Apparently they are getting their wish, instead, from OSHA under the notion that firearm ammunition cartridges are so unstable and explosive that anyone storing or selling them would have to insure (by search if necessary) that no one carrying matches, a lighter, or any other source of flame or sparks approached within 50 feet in all directions. This is but one of several requirements that would make it impossible to make or sell ammunition.

The proposed rule asks for comments, including specifically whether small arms ammunition and components should be included in the new rules with dynamite, TNT, ammonium nitrate, and other blasting agents.

Despite this request, one has to wonder if the persons writing these rules are intentionally proposing a backdoor ammunition ban or are as disconnected from reality as is our current President, who we may recall was amazed and astounded when he first saw a barcode scanner at a supermarket checkout line a few years ago.

Anyone who shoots firearms or, especially, reloads firearm ammunition knows that ammunition and its components are not remotely similar to explosives. Ammunition cartridges are practically impossible to set off without basically crushing them with a hammer or cooking them at a relatively high temperature. Even then, cartridges that are so "cooked" don�t fire the bullet or "explode;' the brass cartridge case simply ruptures. The proposed rule would have us believe that shoppers at Wal-mart routinely set off chain-reaction explosions at the gun counter through negligent use of their Zippos, and that UPS trucks carrying ammunition are blowing up on every highway overpass, killing their drivers.

Even in the very rare event that ammunition or its components are involved in a fire, explosions are virtually unknown. These components burn quite well, but only primers are explosive and even then it would require quite a quantity of them to constitute a significant concern. Given the rarity of such events, a sweeping change to the legal constraints on their manufacture and trade is sheer lunacy.

In light of the gravity of this proposal, one might have expected it to be newsworthy in the Main Stream Media�but of course this is false. If a rule proposing to ban Gays and Lesbians from residences within 1000 feet of a school were proposed in some obscure publication there�d be headlines for weeks, but not when it comes to anything that would effectively starve guns of ammo.

The rule, if adopted, would likely cripple the provision of ammunition to the Department of Defense as well as to police organizations, so there�s a good chance that changes will be made. It is not difficult to imagine, however, that exceptions could be made leaving private citizens to bear the full effects of the rule.

Examples abound of regulatory bureaucrats dumping horrid "laws" on citizens while spineless legislators wring their hands in anguish, frozen in their impotence. In Illinois you can get a $375 fine for going over 45 MPH in a construction zone even if no workers are present, and while legislators have publicly cried that they didn�t intend for this magnified fine to apply at such times, there is no move to "fix" it.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, an industry trade group, has a very nice discussion of the rule and a model letter for submission should one believe petitioning unelected regulatory bureaucrats is the role of a good citizen. Unless extended, the comment period closes on July 12!

Here, immediately after the songs and the fireworks and the platitudinous speeches of Independence Day, is great time to be reminded that our national government, powerful enough to give some people everything they want, is more than powerful enough to strip us of everything we have. As long as our friends and neighbors retain their faith in the Church of Federal Omniscience, nameless and faceless Civil "Servants" will continue to propose stripping us of what few liberties we retain.

Let the sheeple sing! "�and I�m proud to be an American 'cause at least I know I'm free."

July 6, 2007


David Calderwood [send him mail] a businessman, artist, and author of the novel Revolutionary Language, selected January 2000 Freedom Book of the Month at Free-market.net.

Copyright � 2007 by David C. Calderwood

GTC

And this, ....

"July 5, 2007

[recipient address was inserted here]


[recipient name was inserted here],

Dear Mr. President,

I am a 75-yr.-old great-grandmother and I have watched our brave men,
fathers, brothers, husbands, sons, and now grandsons die over the course
of 5 wars for the rights and freedoms of the citizens of this country. It
is unthinkable that you could just stand aside and allow this lesser
agency, OSHA, to propose such restrictions on this country.

It is my belief, based on the Constitution of this country, and its
amendments, that no group of despots from Third World countries, namely
the UN, can impose standards upon the citizens of these great United
States of America that rob them of their Second Amendment rights.

If you, our highest elected official, allow this agency, OSHA, to become
judge and jury over the rights of the citizens of this country, you will
have committed one of the greatest acts of treason history will ever
record.

I beg you to act quickly, to quash this attempt to take away our Second
Amendment rights.

Sincerely,.....XXXXX

UMmmmm....,

given that "next week" is 2 days long, as to the lifespan of this thing......are you sure that "the Lawyers that are working on it"....will have time to get anything accomplished?

Would really like to see a candid admission that you're dept. was as blindsided by this as the rest of us.

No shame, or flame intended, ....we're obviously dealing with the gentle hand side of global terrorism.....



GTC

Exactly...........shhhhh, don't tell the lawyers I'm agreeing with ya'.






Now I'm really liking ya'






Now you're really making the status quo guys uncomfortable..........

Casey

Yup, it is Friday night, and one would expect a little levity.....

but, is this subject .....ANYTHING to do with it,

........funny ?

GTC

Too late--for everyone who has a Concealed Carry "Permit" and/or has bought a handgun in recent years..........The concealed carry permit holders are on the easiest to access list of all the firearms lists...........




And the government will encourage you to be on a list by the carrot and stick method--no government issued "license" to pack heat?--you're immediately suspect.........

Be a good "law-abiding" citizen and get a government permit, Mr. and Mrs. citizen.............

Casey

What else can one do except laugh at--or with--the Sheeple?

Casey

Yeah, I guess it is an absolute riot there, Casey.

Funnier than a barrel of monkeys......

splitting my gut at the great humor involved ....

Kofi Annan's predacessor taking control of MY ammunition.

Oh, I can't stand the mirth, and am going to fall off my chair, and roll around laughing for a while.

Yup.

GTC

.....Or any of the current Republicrats you have most likely elected to office--keep up the good status quo work--and don't forget to ask permisssion before you load any ammo........

Geez you have a thin skin--are you a lawyer?

Casey

NO, I'm not, sir.....

My rifle's fed many families,

and so do my gardens....

GTC

Now that's the spirit!

Casey

Once again, I'm going to bring up the point that we're trying to get something fairly important accomplished here....

Using this thread, as an icon .....something to foward to someone to "Get them into the loop" looks like a no go ...now.

Sad, that.....initially, outsidea' the bumps, and "BTTs"...this was running clean.

so, .....trashed, I guess I'll have to come up with some other "Links"

I like a good laugh, ...as much as the next guy.....

Finding anything humorous about what we've initially been dealing with here, on this thread.....

Gotta' say, in all honesty....just flat eludes me.

GTC

Righteousness does that to a person........

You are entirely missing Barak's point. While running around trying to piss on the little fires--the primary point--and FOCUS--would be to put a stop to the ENTIRE gun registration/laws/restrictions that have continuely eroded our firearm rights.....

But no, the law and order crowd is going to "ask" the politicians not to take away their reloading components..........

Casey

Casey, ....I yield....to whatever it is point you're making.

Got a nice meal comin' together, and really ain't interested in fiddlin' while Rome burns.....

Again, see no humor, ....ground for personal agendas, political philosophy debate.....sorry, ...none.

This started out as an "Action" thread.

I don't think you'd know "Righteous" from a FRA.

You win......we all lose.

GTC

I think you misunderstood my intent there. I am in no way suggesting anybody quit-quite the opposite. I am saying that this is indeed important and that it should be fought tooth and nail rather than sticking our heads in the sand and figuring we can ignore this like many do concealed carry laws. Us ignoring it will do no good. You'd have to get national corporations to do so and it ain't gonna happen. It is fight or die here.

I am not saying that all is lost even if the regs go through. They could certainly be rolled back. We can't depend on big companies to ignore or scoff at laws however silly or ill-thought because history has proven that they won't.

You make some very valid points.

bump

Along this trail of tears I find the lack of awareness astounding...on the part of Fla. F&G, Senators Nelson and Martinez, Representative Brown-Waite, Natchez Supply, in fact, everyone I've contacted on this. Under the radar is kind, too kind. We're looking at a runaway bureaucracy with an agenda IMO and no humility inferred. Like granny's letter a lot. Take that George!

Well, here's some more fodder to throw, and places to throw it.

1. We need a comment period extension here....tell who-some-ever you chat with about this...60 days would be a good starting place. Tell, don't ask!
2. Yes, email Rush some more. We need to NOT let this fade into obscurity.
3. Email Neal Boortz at http://boortz.com/cgi-bin/mail.cgi?id=boortz with this information, he is not known as "The High Priest of the Church of the Painful Truth" for nothing.

As CFO indicated, this is a good day to research, formulate and construct what you wish to present. Broadsides tomorrow folks, fire at will!

Off this morning to do more trading.......

Will try to talk to folks face to face, again.

Actually, along the lines of what Barak is saying, this is one of those regulations that would ultimately serve our purposes were it passed. It is a classic example of regulatory overreach.

If it is passed under the radar like this, it will undoubtedly be ignored because no one knows about it. Useless laws that aren't enforced serve to weaken all of the laws and the governmental forces behind them.

If OSHA tries to actually enforce this law, I'm betting that they wouldn't be prepared for the consequences. Imagine the hue and cry if no one was able to buy ammunition next deer season; if ammunition factories shut down, putting their employees out of work; if military ammunition prices skyrocketed; etc. etc.. I'm betting that the backlash would throw out every politician in Washington. It might actually serve to remind those idiots as to who is supposed to be the servant and who is supposed to be the master.

http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=BP070207.cfm

Thank you: you said it better than I did.

Coss and Barak...I'll tell you one of the reasons I disagree. It is my understanding that BAFTA is a partial enforcement arm of OSHA. If so,the promulgation of this law could conceivably create immediate commerce problems and the reorginazation and, perhaps, closings of some small gun shops relatively quickly in light of BAFTA's powerful and immediate reach.

And towards whom will the public ire turn when those "immediate commerce problems" are manifest?

I live in Texas. East Texas will arise en masse, march on Austin and lynch someone if 30-06 shells aren't available next deer season. The same can be said for any Southern or Western state. In Pennsylvania there are 300,000 deer hunters, most with no more than one box of ammunition at home. The effects of this regulatory scheme would be felt very quickly.

While, I'm sure that the Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clintons of the world would love nothing more than do something like this, the time is not right. The backlash would be too great. No, instead of it being some sort of nefarious scheme, I'm betting it was the work of regulatory nerdy policy wonks. The discussion probably went something like this, "Well, what about ammunition? Well, it blows up doesn't it? Yeah, I guess we had better add it as well."

I don't think this will go through in the end. I don't mind all of the sound and fury right now because it serves to remind the Washington Dorks that we are still around.

This is going to be just like when Clinton did the assault rifle ban....there were more assault rifles sold during his presidency than any others because everyone stocked up.

I'm going out and buying a hundred pounds of powder and a few thousand primers.

Jason...while you're out, pick up some 30.06 shells for Coss. Texas lawyer with ONE box of hunting shells...sacrilege!

I said one box of 30-06 shells. And anyway, I talking about Yankee idiots in Pennsyltucky.

btt

BTT

Is there a number for this regulation? So I can send it to my representatives.

Having worked for a federal bureaucracy for a segment of my past life....I'm not will to roll the dice with this. It is an assumption that the "law" might be ignored...and one likely to miss the mark given the preponderance of Dems and other liberals ensconced in the federal structure.

I would very much like to ask at this point, if you have philosophical points to make about the government or such stuff, it would be appreciated if you would take the time to start a new thread. I don't like your government any better than you like mine...yadda yadda ya.
This one is all about OSHA trying to shut down the shooting sports and what we can do to stop it. Period.

Lost Highway, head back to the beginning of this thread, all you need is to be found within the first few pages.

Another thought about the proposed rule. OSHA did a poor job in their cost analysis, falling far short of the impact this will have. Not included is the lost revenues to State F&G departments, lost revenues to the owners of businesses that will shut down, lease revenues...etc etc etc. There's fuel for the fire there.

It ain't a philosophical point Beavis, it is an unenforceable regulation that will amount to nothing at the present time. Pray tell, how is OSHA going to enforce such wide ranging regulation? And if they do, how do you expect them to survive the backlash?

They may as well decree that you can't tear the little tags off of your matresses. Oh wait, that is against the law isn't it? HOw is that one working?

You probably mean BATFE, right? No, I'm pretty sure BATFE is Treasury Department. They're just tax collectors, after all.

Anyway...I never meant to imply that the regulation would have no effect on anything. Sure, large ammunition manufacturers would probably shut down, at least officially. However, the regulation would not make all their capital equipment evaporate, nor the folks who know how to run it. It'd be riskier and more expensive to operate, and if folks wanted to buy factory ammunition they'd have to get it on the sly from the same sorts of folks you buy your marijuana from now, and you'd probably pay a lot more for it than you do now; but it'd be available.

But that's the real meaning of the phrase "freedom isn't free." Contrary to what many people believe, the thing that makes freedom costly is not that you have to spend time and effort begging the government for it. (What you get when you do that is not freedom, or even a particularly good imitation of it: what you get when you do that (if you're lucky) is permission. Not the same thing at all.) It's not that you have to sacrifice your sons and daughters on the altar of governmental military ambitions. (What you get when you do that isn't freedom either: it's simply dead sons and daughters, plus monstrous deficits and taxes, plus increased foreign enmity.)

The thing you have to pay for freedom, always and everywhere, is security--in one form or another.

Security and freedom are not opposites, like law and morality; they're more like money and goods. You sell one for the other, but how much of the other you get for a certain amount of the one depends heavily on market rates--which, like those of every other kind of market, are distorted by government.

Under a government like North Korea's, for example, you could sell all your security in a bid for freedom by openly calling for a violent revolt against the government. Because the demand for freedom in North Korea is somewhat (but not much) higher than the supply, its price (in security, which is always what you pay for freedom) is quite high: you'll likely be thrown in prison or executed, neither of which will do much for your freedom.

Under a government like the US's, on the other hand, the demand for freedom is small, and the supply is somewhat higher: so the ratio is reversed. You get very little security (from the government, anyway) for a considerable investment of freedom, but you can get lots of freedom for comparatively little security.

In the US, obeying the law gives you a significant amount of security against being thrown in prison or executed. It certainly doesn't give you complete security, but it gives you more than it would in a place like North Korea. However, as the law becomes more and more oppressive, you have to give up more and more freedom just to maintain the level of security achieved by obeying the law--and that level of security will sink, because more oppressive laws mean more government corruption.

However, somebody who's willing to break the law judiciously, the way a speculator plays the stock market, can get a considerable amount of that freedom back without giving up too much security. For example, carrying a concealed weapon illegally, if you do it well, will give you more freedom than carrying one legally (because in the illegal case, you haven't had to give up the money or privacy or self-respect that obeying the law would cost you); and your increased vulnerability to arrest and imprisonment is constrained to things like "printing" in front of a cop.

Barak, I think you are being a little too theoretical on this one. Oh sure, I agree with you arguments, I just don't think it will come to that.

Simply put, there are too many monied interest and people who vote for this to come to fruition. For the time being, the politicians still care what people think and they certainly care about corporate money.

We are not yet ripe for this sort of regulatory scheme to work. Guns haven't been demonized enough yet and there are still too many people who use them and too much money made off of them. If there were just a few hundred thousand of us, then yeah, it could happen. But it won't yet.

You probably mean BATFE, right?
=================================================================

Yes, I did. Fingers working faster than my brain.

Thanks for the necessary correction. Identifying an entertainment organization for this wasn't too bright, was it?

btt

Didn't know you play the fiddle.

OSHA can kiss my BRASS!

Lifted this from BPCR.Net, the poster had done the same from another forum.


There is another thought expressed from Wyoming by an industry leader in regards to the efforts being made by concerned sportsmen across this great land.

Reffering to Wyoming's post, D.D.,


Distraction is not a productive state of mind, and Wyo. is bang on.


...............Some ruminating, and I think that this may well be another blinding flash of sheer perspicacity......

............... Than again it just may be the brief incandescance of a properly ignited bean fart......., Dunno.

Wouldn't it occur to us that this would impact Drilling and Blasting outfits, to the same or perhaps even a larger degree than it would Sport Shooting / Value added types.

The country is foaming at the mouth about energy prices, and we see a wild escalation in the cost of Geo-thermal coal based electrical generation.

Nope, ....no Gorebasm happening here,....I'm the guy that'll run the blasthole drill, and load the shotholes with anfo....in places like Farmington N.M.

.....with the Millwright hat secured, I'll go overhaul a 1,000,000 HP + G.E. Steam Turbine, ....and than weld the oil and cooling water lines on secondaries.

Given that we are still by and large a coal based Electrical economy.......and we have to use explosives to move overburden and expose seams.........,

What does this potentially do to the cost of your incoming A.C. power....?

On a paralell track, the cost of metals is right through the bloody roof, ...what does an additional cost to PRODUCERS ( I'm emphasising that.....cuz' obviously OSHA ain,t a producer) in this other "Value added" industry do to metals pricing.

I think the answer to both of these questions would be fairly obvious.

GTC

Just ruminating, is all.

GTC

Went components trading today, and FWIW, tried to spread the word.....

Two things grabbed my train of thought on the ride home.

1.) the last time I bought blue box .243 federals for the boys rifle they was 11 bux and change......saw 'em for 21 today.

2.) At a prominent shop in the area, I had the owner shrug his shoulders and tell me how tired he was of emailing everybody under the sun over everything thats comes up in recent years.

He actually said to me....

"Whatever happens.....happens."

Damn...................

This really seems to be endemic, W.W., and I think by and large attributable to the fact that a lot of "Suppliers" are in point of fact "Indoorsmen".......spending far to much time under florescents, and enlarging their already ample stomachs...

"What're we having for lunch today", seems to be far and away the more typical form of interogative.........

Versus...

" What the hell is going on, today, ....and how will it affect the Legacy of American Shooting Sport".

Not to say there aren't anomalies......,

Just wish the "Fat Cats" were the anomalies.

GTC

That pretty much describes it.

BTW--more government corruption directly translates into more government interjection into our lives.

Casey

OSHA isn't singling out one industry here. In part due to suffocating safety and environmental regulations, our manufacturing jobs have been going overseas for decades.

I just checked and I have three powders on my reloading bench:

Reloader7 - made in Sweden
IMR4064 - made in Canada
H4350 - made in Australia

You guys that have been whining about the high price of gasoline? You should see what the refining industry has to deal with.

Oops...

I'm gettin' blank stares and subtle indications from some of these shop owners that maybe I'm a nut case and yesterday I was seein' UFO's land in my yard......

I mention OSHA and it's like they are thinkin' WTF is this guy all about.

I'm guessin' that because they've not heard it on the evening news that it ain't a big deal, if it's even true. Maybe "they" are so programmed that it won't sink in until it's too late.

I've got guys I work with that are just mind boggled that OSHA could have anything to do their hunting. OSHA to them are the guys they call when they got a bitch to pitch 'bout the company.

It ain't sinkin' in, that's for sure..........

Heck, the woman from the NRA that called me to remind me about my dues didn't even know what I was talking about!
I did what I could and I'm telling everyone I know that hunts or shoots about it. Our legislative process has sunk to the point where judges and agencies make law. God help us. We have so many ignorant folks in our land that don't have a clue.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!

Government has become pervasive because we've allowed it. What say that on this day and subject we make a collective statement that it ends here? I think America is fed up and this is perhaps a single point issue...but think about it as a beginning. Maybe a flash point? Rule making is far more insidious than legislation IMO, is does not see much light of day and the authors are accountable to no one. I don't think George W. and friends had this in mind when they met at Independence Hall.

Think about it however you want but let's get-r-done!

This is a riot, Q.,

I got a call yeterday from one of these NRA "Telemarketers"......the usual impassioned plea for $$$$ to fight the good fight, etc. That's to say impassioned in content, ....the delivery was sorta' lackluster, and insipid.
He knew NOTHING about the OSHA regs mess....and really didn't even seem interested in hearing about it.
Some "Marketing Strategist" over in the "tastefully decorated" with "softly muted colors, and the warm glow of wood" halls of the Fairfax Va. facility ......( paid for by guess who?)
........should pull his head out and go to an "action alert" mode...
I don't think giving "Staff" daily current events briefings would be such a bad idea.
Yesterday's encounter smacked of "Oh that's not my department".....and when it became evident that I wasn't pulling out my credit card or checkbook, ....he split.

Back to work...

GTC

BTT

How are you sure this woman wasn't calling from some phone bank in New Deli? If you think you're getting a call from NRA HQ I gots news for you. These jobs are farmed out to boiler rooms far removed from the pulse. A scripted message and bonus's for performers are all these callers are worried about as they read from a script.

You think regulations are bad, what about the coercion used by the Feds when they didn't think they could legislate a national id card? Making all the states comply with their national driving regulations or lose all highway funding.

Ethan...

Take the guns away from us and nothing of that sort will make one damned bit of difference.

People have got to wake up about this.........

The Second Amendment is the cornerstone of your Freedom....anything else is trivial drivel.

I've been praying. God trumps guns any day. If you've read my posts though, you know I'm all for opposing this. I had ancestors in the Revolution and it started when the Feds of the day tried to confiscate guns. I sure hope it doesn't come to that here, but I don't plan to give up any of mine nor the means to fire them.

Just wanted to say too that I've always admired your sig line. I used to be a low-level politico on a school board. Others on there said you had to run it like a business and not take anything personally. I told them that it's all personal to me...always.

FWIW, the local Gander Mountain is completely out of primers.... and LOW on powder....

I wonder why?

WW; Absolutely on the cornerstone of freedom being the Second Amendment.

Powder, primers, and bullets are in short supply. The military has taken practically all of Federal's manufacturing capacity through the rest of this year. The effect is rippling through the market.

VA...

Someone mentioned prayer, and though I can't disparage that a'tall...I'm thinkin' that prayer was answered 231 years ago.

We just gotta remember it..............

Yep.

The tools are there.....to stay the course.

As an aside....

It do kinda make you wonder about the logic in severely thinning the herd, going common as to calibers, and stocking up HUGE on ammo, powder, primers, cases, and bullets, now don't it?

Hmmmmmmm.....

Can see myself parting with some 16 gauges here soon.... in order to stockpile 12 gauge supplies....

Might could move some other stuff, too.... in order to squirrel back bricks of .22LRs, 9x19 and .30-06 stuff....

Though, I can't see myself losing the 9.3x62, the .221 or the 10mm auto...

Not a bad plan a'tall...........

Might need to source a certain variety of .223 and 7.62x39 as well....

VA. says "It do kinda make you wonder about the logic in severely thinning the herd, going common as to calibers, and stocking up HUGE on ammo, powder, primers, cases, and bullets, now don't it?"

I'm thinkin' that the only acceptable outcome to any of this is that we don't have to thin herds, or give up one iota of the pretty fair supply chain's variety....that's been available up to now.

In fact, having gotten this fair of a jump on this fiasco, I'm feeling like mebbe some "Reparations" are in order, and the head of steam worked up over this OSHA krap can be channeled off into constructive channels.......I'd sure like to see the days of "Lake City Match Ammo" return, and I'm sure lotsa' you would too.

Best Regards,

GTC

I'm thinkin' VA's point was that my ammo supply would fit his gun...

Should it ever need to..........

Somethin' along those lines....

And, making sure that should it need to, I'd have plenty useful stuff to last as long as it need to.

And, visa versa......

Yep, again.

I'll go along with commonality of calibers WW, ....only makes sense.

This just in, shamelessly lifted.

"If you go to the government web site, the Democratic committee members, beside Murray, read like the who's-who of the left: Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama, etc. I wrote my Congressmen (R) advising them of my concerns and requesting that they bring a bill forward to cut off funding for OSHA. It not only seems fair to me, but a logical response. This tactic is being used by the Left-wing on Federal, State and local levels. I'm sure (hope) that there's a conservative strategist that's bright enough to see this tactical element and use it against them. CUT OFF THEIR MONEY!! It doesn't get much simpler than that. You want a public comment on your pending rules: I just wrote all my Congressmen and directed them to cut off funding for your agency


This fellow has the right idea!"

******************

I think it has merit, ....too.

GTC

Yep he does....

Good to see there's still civil action left to be taken...

When that's exausted though, I'll ride with the likes of Patriots......

Allan Gottlieb's outfit....CCRKBA has nothing I can find on OSHA Regs Pending....

Than again, I may be going blind from sitting in front of this thing.

Ya'll see anything 'bout this, here...?

http://www.ccrkba.org/

GTC

That's chock full of press releases....

I've yet to see THIS come out anywhere in the media.

I emaild Pat Roberts as well, I have spoken with him several times in the past and find him to be very supportive of the shooting sports. ( he is pro gun all the way) As I posted before this is just another attemp to regulate the second amenndment away. Make the ammunition impossible to get and firearms are amoot point, just like makeing hunting so expensive that the avearge person just cannot afford it add taxes to make firearms and ammunition so expensive that you can not afford to shoot, have a bureucrat make regulations to make it impossible to purchase ammunition or componants either in a store or by mail order because they cannot be shipped or shipping costs are excessive. Remote control gun ban

Y'all keep on working this. OSHA accepts more than one comment, I know because they are probably real tired of my love notes. Tomorrow is a pivotal day I think. Rush, Boortz, Congressmen and Senators too....give 'em a ring. Hell, give the White House a call, I'm sure 'W' has nothing better to do at the moment....than issue an Executive Order castrating OSHA. Be careful how you phrase that one.....

Got another of my accomplices to send comment to the feds. Thanks Dino. I have a helluva time locating guys this past week 'cuz of vacations. I think that was very intentional.

Just as an afterthought, police departments would get nailed just as hard because their training and practice and duty ammo is NOT delivered by little elves. I see it delivered by Fedex and UPS all the time. LE agencies have a very powerful interest in this on OUR side for once at least.

I noticed that the NRA sent an alert about it as well. I sent in the following comment to OSHA on the site:


"As a fire fighter myself, I can appreciate and agree with the safety rule directing workers not to
attempt to fight fires where small arms propellants and components are sored. However, I have several
concerns about the fart reaching effects some of the proposed rules would have.

Specifically, the rules concerning no more than 20 pounds of smokeless or black powder being
displayed, and in no larger than 1 pound containers would have a derogatory effect on the ability
of individuals to buy components. Further, treatment of components used by the average
citizen for ammunition reloading as major explosives is unwarrented and should not be approved.

Freedom is a tenous thing. While we want to protect, we must not do so to the extent that we
abridge the rights and priviledges of citizens. I feel that the rules set forth here, while well
intentioned, go beyond the intended limits and would be used to eliminate, or at least severly
curtail, private reloading of ammunition, and even the stocking and shipment of loaded
ammunition that should be available to private citizens. As such, I feel more work is needed on
the plans to insure that such rights and priviledges are protected.

Thankyou."

DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

Occupational Safety and Health Administration

29 CFR Part 1910

[Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 (Formerly Docket No. OSHA-S031-2006-0665 and
OSHA Docket No. S-031)]
RIN 1218-AC09


Explosives; Extension of Comment Period

AGENCY: Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA),
Department of Labor.

ACTION: Proposed rule; extension of comment period.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY: OSHA is extending the comment period for its proposed standard
on Explosives for an additional sixty (60) days until September 10,
2007.

DATES: Written comments must be submitted (postmarked or sent) by
September 10, 2007.

-----------

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/E7-13198.htm

-----------

You heard it here first!

John

This is some good news, perhaps the pressure from industry groups and the citizenry is starting to take effect.

HBB

Well written. Your perspective as a fireman should be recognized as both concerned for safety as well as concerned about the loss of our rights as citizens.


Do you suspect that OSHA was prodded by the antis to take such a hard line on the ammunitions industry?


Have there been industrial accidents that warrant this?

Hot Dang it, now we're getting somewhere!

"Have there been industrial accidents that warrant this?"

Yes. OSHA admitted the basis for it were two accidents...one in 1944 and the other in 1947.

You and I both know the BS factor as to that, don't we??

I was going for fairly deadpan but added the smiley at the last minute lest some hothead take me to task over it. heheh

Ethan...I thought it all had something to do with some drunk teenager blowing off his finger holding onto a lit M-80!!

I called all my Congress Critters' offices this morning and the staffers I spoke with were totally oblivious to the OSHA proceedings. All three did assure me that they would see that Senators Burr and Dole as well as Rep. McHenry would be told about it today. Time will tell if they're interested in doing anything.

HBB

Issac,

No, that's the Consumer Product Safety Commission which is trying to seriously limit or ban the sale of any chemical that can be used by (legitimate) amateur pyrotechnicians. Including such innocuous chemicals as sulfur.

The Fireworks Foundation - CSPC v. Firefox

Don't ya just love it when the government (a.k.a some anonymous bureaucrats in DC) is hell-bent to protect us from ourselves?

They sure were quick to act in the name of "SAFETY"!


Hogwash.....................This smells of "Anti" influence!

Great News on the Sixty Day "Grace Period", ....ample time to pickel Silver coffin nails in Garlic and Wolfbane....and properly slay this monster.

Can anyone probvide a Date / Time on OSHA's release of this document?

Thanks,

GTC

Don't know as they haven't changed it on the gov reg site but adding 60 days to 7-12 puts us at 9-19....got an e-mail from Tom Coburn today saying he will write me personally soon with a response...will post it then....

Word from the Office of Sen. Martinez R-Fl...staffer...the OSHA staffer not aware of this.... heh heh, he be aware now. Any other of you peeps from the Windy State want to chat with him 202/224-3041, name is Frank Walker.

Sen. Bill Nelson 202/224-5474


Let me know if you need any number for congressional reps or senators, I've got them all..

This concerns me, in that this "Extension Document" has justv appeared, and undated , at that......

So, ....WHERE did it come from, and when....?

I just checked the regulations.gov site and the number of public comments have expanded from just 17 last Friday to more than 100 today. Based on the tracking numbers assigned to public comments this is just scratching the surface as they were only up to the B's. My comment number (I put it in last Thursday) was assigned a D series tracking number. So, it does look like the oily peckerwoods are getting an earful. I hope they have to add personnel to handle the public comment volume

HBB

Withdrawing any concern, or alarm, ...I guess Fed Register is a verifier.

As in all cases assume the worse, when dealing with slimeballs,and that's what's happened here.

SWELL NEWS......this system can and DOES work, when we agitate, and bird-dog hard.

I've been M.I.A. for the last 24 hr. took a rather Bachanallian "Sanity break" with a girlfriend, in an adjacent town.......not sure how well it worked, having roared in broadside, looking for another Left-Wing deception play.

"That doesn't make me paranoid though....even if they all are out to get me."

Thanks all.

GTC

OSHA-2007-0032-0018 Explosives; Extension of Comment Period 07/09/2007 PROPOSED RULES View file in PDF format View file in HTML format Add Comments
09/10/2007

The above is from the regulations.gov and is immediately below the Explosives item. It is genuine so far as I know.

Now don't go gettin' me all paranoid.... Last date is end of comment period, note the new Docket ID number associated with the extension...ONLY.

Floating an idea here: Anybody want to be an ambassador...point man, something like that, to Rush, Boortz....whoever and whatever? Organize a bit, collaborate to feed them info on this? Or do you just want to continue the frontal assault by an angry mob?

Dude...

We won a battle, now for the WAR.

Don't hold back folks, let 'em have it with both barrels......pun there.

We MUST win this.

Fight the good fight, full steam ahead..............

Ya think?

With Hilary Clintoon and Barak Obama sitting on the OSHA Senate Oversight Committeeeeeee.......it be a good bet that's exactly what's going on.

Ya'all excuse me for a while...

I've a ton of reloading to do........................

My biggest problem with this entire thing is the way it was attempted. This was first promulgated in mid June with July 12 as the cut off for comment, this document is over four hundred pages with the parts that will affect us covered by a few paragraphs. But you can bet the farm had they been implemented they would have dropped on us like a rock. I regulation with the force of law, implemented by a bureucrat. could well have ended the shooting sports as we know them, just like they way it was forty or fifty years ago has ended. Next will be some Homeland securaty ploy, but any intelligent person should be able to see that a secure people have to be well armed. So the second is homeland securaty.

This came from NSSF today in their Bullet Points e-mail; there is more on the website. No question in my mind that this is purely an anti-gun move (probably engineered by the same leftists on the Senates OSHA oversite committee) - how can the presence of firearms in a shop make ammo more dangerous in a thunderstorm?? I asked a gun dealer what he knew about the proposed regs today in a shop in Rocky Mount NC - my questions were the first he heard of it. Odessa
==========================================================

INDUSTRY EFFORTS INSTRUMENTAL . . . Thanks to the efforts of NSSF, the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, their respective firearm and ammunition manufacturer and retailer members and the NRA-ILA Grassroots division, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has granted a 60-day extension in which to submit comments on its proposed explosives regulations. The hot-button issue was discussed in great detail on many radio and television networks, including the Rush Limbaugh Show. The new deadline for submitting written comments is Sept. 10. NSSF, SAAMI and the National Association of Firearms Retailers will conduct a more thorough review of the proposed regulations and will continue discussions with OSHA. OSHA's proposed regulations still pose a serious threat to the firearms and ammunition industry. Industry members are, therefore, still encouraged to take action by submitting their own comments on the proposed regulations to OSHA by Sept. 10.

btt

Democrats by Rank

Patty Murray (WA)
Christopher Dodd (CT)
Tom Harkin (IA)
Barbra Mikulski (MD)
Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY)
Barack Obama (IL)
Sherrod Brown (OH)
Edward Kennedy (MA) (ex officio)

There's a sign....

Just picked off and downloaded a dozen or so "Comments" from that GovRegs site....at random, and offa' the 4 new pages that so mysteriously popped up over the last coupla' days ( currently sitting at 115 comments, the "Docket Manager may be on a KFC / Diet Soda break.......... )..........

The comments are interesting in cross section. Some legnthy and item number specific, some are succinct one or two liners...

Tremendous concern evident, regardless.

I need something clarified, ...please.

What is the specific docket # that responses should now be directed towards ?

Sorry, I don't read legaleeze all that well.

I am concerned that further ( STILL REQUIRED ) response to this site, with wrong Docket nomenclature will perhaps result in "Auto round file" function, on their end.

If the pertinent site has changed, can someone with more komputer savvy post a direct link thereto, the way it was done for the original pre-extension docket...?

Much appreciated

GTC

The extension for public comment has been extended? since this weekend I've discovered this post, but yet no time off to get down to my local gun shops to spread the word. If this has been extended, then we can go on to the next step for public comment. thanks to everyone for sharing this passionate debate.
Casey

Inspired by the "Redneck thread runnin' today....

Just another flash of inspiration, ...mebbe.

Anyone with a pipeline to "Blue Collar Comedy" bunch, ..Foxworthy, White, Larry
the cable guy, Engvall .......

This might be really fertile material for anything they're putting on over the next coupla' months......No.....?

Write and c.c. them........

link: http://www.bluecollarcomedy.net/

GTC

Reply to this Document ID: OSHA-2007-0032-0001 That is the initial document and is where comment should land. My interpretation is that the other would merely be comments on the extension. Perhaps we should demand a 1,000 year extension on comments?

My .02 worth.

I just talked to S. Isaakson's office. He's the ranking Republican on the OSHA oversight committee. His official position is that he doesn't have a position right now (apparently he's waiting to see what comments are submitted).

He needs to have a position and we need to give him an earful!

he's the ranking republican for crying out loud!

please call him now, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow !


Johnny Isaacson 1-202-224-3643

Just checked regulations.gov and the replies have grown from 17 (1page)last Friday to 875 (35 pages) today.

Keep after the varmints.

HBB

Bump dity bump..............

The single consistent thing I notice about this at the moment, nobody in Washington knows about this. You'd think it would catch their eye as gunners across America have swayed many votes in the past. Even Al Gore blames us for his defeat.

Position? I got their position all figured out....

I just scanned it, Bear....it's grown by 100, and sits now at 975.

Gotta' love it.

GTC

Boopity boot...

I just sent a long winded dissertation to Neal Boortz...there is no earthly way to approach this with one breath is there? We shall see what we shall see....

I did NOT hear back from any of the Congressional staffers I called today. I shall call them twice tomorrow but their pay will remain the same.

seems nearly 4000 members have read this but there are only 1000 comments? comment comment comment !

There's 15002 members total....

I'd say at least more than half of them are progun...grin.

We could really jack that OSHA comment page couldn't we, if everyone here sent one comment??

Now, that would be unscroupulous, I like it. I just call my two Senators office once a week to bring up crap like this, I can honestly say this Ken Salazar isn't worth the crap it took to make him. Les

The 1947 incident was a particularly poor choice of reasons for new regulation. Adequate safety regulations were in place, but the US GOVERNMENT decided to override those, to expedite the shipment of fertilizer to Europe. Physician, heal thyself.

I got a letter from Sen. John Kyl, today.

Looks like a standard " Category: Labor Dept." form letter, but assuring me that concens will be fowarded to Dept Labor.

Better'n nothing, one would have to think.

I agree, that it's still pretty quiet around this issue.

GTC

Wildswalker, I like the way you think. What say folks? It's one heckuva excellent idea! Take 5 minutes out of your day and help crush this matter like a bug....GIVE OSHA YOUR COMMENT!

We've a members list somewhere right?

And a PM function right?

Savvy...?

Oh Rick Bin....where art thou?

I can understand that not all 15 thousand and two members hang out on a regular basis, but even half of them would swamp OSHA in a day.......

And the next day......

And the next.........

I'm gettin' goose bumps just thinkin' about it...

All horned up about OSHA's computers starting to smoke....

And all of it thanks to the Campfire....oh what a day!

Drift some Campfire smoke in their eyes eh???

We have the Power....to make a difference.

I commented to my Senators and my Repesentive. I also made sure that my Step-Daughter knew what was happening. She recently graduated law school and passed the Bar in Arkansas and has a lot of friends and aquaintences. Just because we are not Jawing on this thread, does not mean that we do not care and are doing nothing. miles

Can we sue OSHA...?

Class Action..??

Mmmmmmm...........

Bombarding OSHA with anything rolling around on the deck is cool.....and probably an indispensible FIRST step...

Step 2 is lighting up elected reps....and that does not look as time consuming as step 1

Step 3.....your Fish and game Depts.

Step 4....tell your local Vendor / Supplier that if they don't get with the program, ....they've seen your last nickle. Give them all prerequisite worksheets, and help them mobilise. 'Fore ya' know it, they'll be out there stumping.....right beside you.

From there on out.....hell, get creative....

"Blue collar Comedy's" Ron White is playing in Wendover 13th, and Reno 14th.

I'm trying to get a picture of that sh*t eatin' "Tater" character gettin' serious around this one....and reckon that this is a good idea.....laffin' at these Lib. Creeps HURTS them, and compromises their widdle "Self-Esteem".....and these folks play to a BIG audience, ....no?

Just my $.02

GTC

What was the figure for compliance ugrades....100 million?

Guess that KFC ran outta' wings, ....and the diet soda truck crashed.....after all, there's only so much time in the day.

This, about 3 min. dead.

"Displaying Results 1 to 25 of 975 Page of 39"

........Request / urgent....

Do they still make "Jolt" Cola (" all the caffiene, and twice the sugar" ), and how do we get 8-10 cases shipped pronto to the FED REGS "Docket Mgr."

Weaning offa' KFC might work to the advantage of this noble cause, .....so alternative high fat diet substitutes to KFC solliceted.

REMEMBER, ....this is no time for shifty die offs....we need this person alive for 60 days, ...yet.

I was thinkin' pizza, Mufalottas, and Jerky....complimentary, ...on us, like......, but any good suggestions for nourishment in an intense "Cubicle environment", welcomed.

Quantum leaps, in progress are cool.......ya'll be nice, and keep up the barrage, hear?

GTC

I hear ya! That kind of volume would leave a mark fer sure.

All you folks out there watching the show, time to pitch in, pick up the phone, warm up MS Word.......smoke signals....we need some noise here, noise without end!

Bump it up......

yup

Here's an online petition:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/say-no-to-osha-ammunition-regulations.html

Done.....and thanks,. .458

......GTC

.458, thanks! This is the kind of stuff we need...throwing another log on the fire...NOW!

We are the Yankee scots

We wear our kilts to cover our C#cks

We wear our putees around our jocks

To keep our balls from freezing....

Yo, yo , the breezes blow,

your kilts fly high your balls hang low...

Etc, .......etc...."

I gotta' love the sheer ballsiness of the way this salvage effort has turned into a frontal assault....with a clearly established beachhead...'s the sorta stuff that D-Day vets would love.....No?

Barrage escalates.....

Silver coffin nails and bullets, steeped in Garlic, and Wolfbane....

Driving stakes into a monster's heart.

ARGHhhhh, mateys.

GTC

PAYDIRT!!!!

This is a major success. Instapundit is a very influential blog. This, and Rush, could be the tipping point for getting major traction.

See 7th item down, July 11, 2007.

Thanks for the link, I just signed it.

HBB

Me signed too!!! Us knuckledraggin' brutes gotta stay on top!!

You got the knuckle draggin' brute part right...grins.

As I sit here gnawin' on the thighbone of some bureaucratic gov't geek

Neanderthal..........

I'm movin' up in th' world apparently

I'll have youze know that I'm nowhere's near a "Knuckle Draggin" brute.

This is more like crawlin' around on all fours....so far.

" appapting his most gentile manner, he polishes off the German Beer, ....

and reaches over to the bottle of "Boone's Farm" wine offered to him by a compadre".

Easy guys, and not to much indulgence in "Yee-Haw" yet.

Still an awfully dark and tenuous trail,...ahead.

Guns up, fire for effect.

GTC

I'm way ahead of you guys on the evolutionary scale. My mother has been telling me I'm a Yard Ape for years

HBB

Yard ape's a GOOD thing.

Semper Coonass,

GTC

Just got off the phone with Tad of Con. Ginny Brown-Waite's office. He advises they have been receiving a LOT of negative commentary from the electorate on the OSHA thing. I asked if he thought there was a chance of de-funding OSHA....probably not. Further inquiry about the odds of a press release on the subject....maybe, he'll take it to Ginny and get back to me.

My other 3 moving targets (Nelson/Martinez)/FWC are two-steppin'...they will be assimilated.

After great deliberation I decided to ask "Tater Salad" for some help on this. Somehow, him talking about evacuating a Wal-Mart due to a thunderstorm has me rotflmao and I don't even know what he's saying....yet.

Just checked regulations.gov and its up to 51 pages and 1250 replies.

Keep the pressure on.

HBB

BTT

The view from the top is:

Previously mentioned the discussion with Con. Brown-Waite's staffer...3 return calls from others followed.

Bill Couch from Sen. Nelson's office is politically nimble but not dodging my determination too much. His ankle has some gnaw marks on it. While not indicating the Senior Senator's position on the matter he acknowledged that his office has been receiving a LOT of negative input about the rule. Kudos to those from the Windy State on that. I suggested a statement from the Senator and he said he would confer...

Terrance Massey of Quincy, Fl. staffs for Sen. Mel Martinez who is an avowed supporter of all things 2nd Amendment...he claims. Turns out likely that I hunted with his Grandfather in years gone by, being a repeat offender at the same plantation for 25 years. At any rate, he has initiated an official inquiry on the matter with OSHA counsel. They have been getting mauled by commentary on this. More Kudos! He was NOT aware the comment period had been extended FWIW. Unofficially, Terrance advises that in conversation with OSHA poobahs that "This thing is getting blown all out of proportion!"(Poobah wringing hands) Boo Hoo Hoo. Damn if I don't like the sound of that! Further, it is acknowledged by the same OSHA unit that some of the things in the NPRM resulted from the process getting "carried away". Yes, the justification, rational and cost analysis is lame, or so Terrance advises. He will confer with Mel in regards to my request for a media statement on the matter...I wait without holding breath. He indicated that he appreciated my heads up on this last week, it was the first they'd heard of the matter. He also suggested that it seemed unlikely that the rule would be approved as it stands, to which I suggested he should pardon my paranoia and that I understand how this process works and that the final word on the matter comes from OSHA, not Congress. Still, a popular riot by the rabble plays well so far as career longevity moves such bureaucrats.

Florida F&G - Bill tells me the agency has no official position on the issue. Unofficially they are using communication channels unknown to the unwashed masses. He has briefed several gun clubs on the matter. He agreed that they(F&G) can back channel concerns about this, substantial concerns, as ALL of Bill's income is generated by hunting license revenues I might add. Such channels may or may not pass thru the governors office, or the hallowed halls of Washington DC. Bill said he had been fielding calls on this to such point as he was almost as conversant as I am with the matter. It is a murky world out there....


That is all, carry on.

And where did YOU learn how to stick bamboo slivers under fingernails and light them Dan?? Unfortunately I'd be wasting time and energy trying to communicate with Schumerscum and Hitlrey

It's a headline article/news alert in this month's issue of "North American Hunting Club" magazine.

I have sent an e-mail on the first comment period, signed the
petition and have made several calls,
Will continue to call and sign petitions. This is nothing more
then a back door,underhanded effort by the Brady bunch attempt
at total gun control.
Thanks everybody for all the information
on this,
Charlie

Just south of of the Rockpile as I recall.

Tell y'all true, taking this to the instigators is a waste of time. Whoores that they be, there is but one thing they will respond to and that is fear of an angry electorate. Network this thing, get others involved, the more the merrier. I will admit I've talked to a few staffers that work for people that aren't beholding to me. Some will listen, it's a National issue and I'm part of the "national", so are you. Volume will carry more sway here than ballet and you are all individually as powerful as the NRA. No chitt.

When you talk to someone, politician, business owner, bureaucrat...don't listen....TELL! Be polite, clear and as concise as possible. Be forceful as well, it is their future on the line as much as yours, I don't care if they sell guns, clothing, scent, calls, ammo, lease land or own a restaurant that caters to hunters. Opportunity is all around you....

We have over 1200 comments on file with OSHA, it could be 12,000. Hell, it could be 120,000...turn up the volume and make them KNOW it is "all out of proportion".

Good night from Yankeetown.

Sent my comment to OSHA.

We have members from all of the States. What if we contacted our Sen. and Reps. and tried to get them to do away with OSHA? If we could just get a bill introduced and in comittee, it would scare the hell out of them. It would be good for the whole working industry if we could get them thrown out. miles

I shall rest up a bit on this for today....have other small fires to deal with on the home front, so best I can do is....bump.

Interesting proposal, Miles.......

I've worked as a "Safety Man"....and have a great personnal record for no on the job accidents / lost time injuries on my crews.
Mighta' mentioned earlier.....back when the Beanbrains brought in 100% fall protection over 6 or 8 feet.......I was wrangling Iron, hangin' and Welding it.......Man, we had all sortsa' casualties directly attibutabal to that double lanyard nonsense.
Any emergency that required a quick move ....you'd almost invariably forget to unclip that second SOB.
Our workplace has become so "Safe" that you can no longer get anything done......and the Nation at large suffers, in consequence.

GTC

bump........

Bump again

HBB

I hope this doesn't take the typical route of "short attention span syndrome".....

Hate to see our Freedom suffer a death by "bored of the topic".....

Doesn't look like much interest. You would think that anyone with a business would be wanting to get rid of or rework OSHA. miles

There's still some interest I think, some of us have been behind the scenes a bit, at least that describes my latest crusade. I'm thinking that networking is important now, friends, businesses, friends of friends, that sort of thing. I do believe that OSHA is feeling some pressure on this....we do need to maintain or increase their level of discomfort though.

btt

W.W.'s comment " I hope this doesn't take the typical route of "short attention span syndrome".....

I darn sure hope this is not the case, and................ perhaps something that the perps are counting on.

GTC

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/say-no-to-osha-ammunition-regulations.html

Get this to the other shooting forums you visit.

Couple of days off from this has cleared my mind a bit. Tomorrow I shall resume clouding the minds of countless souls that think they have more important things to do. Little do they know.....

Done...

boom

Unabashedly lifted....Peripheral,..mebbe just a skosh, but still comin' outta' the same nest of pit vipers.

........and disturbing additional evidence of a well strategized series of backdoor sneakazoid / creepazoid attacks.

"Guys,

I spotted the following on another web site. It was very recently published in the recent edition of the American Firearm Industry magazine. I thought it might interest some of you, especially the professional gunsmiths or anyone owning a retail business.

*****
--------------------------------------------------

GOVERNMENT CLASSIFIES GUN INDUSTRY AS A HOBBY� NOT A BUSINESS INDUSTRY

Sportsmen Cry for Help as the Gun Industry Continues to Wallow In Self-Satisfied Delusions
By Andrew Molchan

This is the story of Mr. Scott Drummond. When Scott was growing up, his father ran a hunting lodge in western Kentucky. Scott went on to school and has two degrees in engineering. He started doing work for some of America's major corporations. Because of this background, the corporate executives started using him as their hunting guide. Scott said, "Executives of major corporations don't want to live in a tent.They want to hunt their way. I decided to open a hunting lodge and cater to upper income hunters."

In 1997 he opened a 14,000 square foot luxury hunting lodge in Arkansas next to the Ouachita National Forest. He had taken out a loan with the local bank, staffed by people who were very co-operative, and things were going great. His annual billing was approaching a million dollars. The average customer stay was $5,000, and the lodge was 100% full during season. Then the ice storm hit during the 2000-2001 hunting season. That was a setback. Furthermore, in September 2001, right at the start of hunting season, 9/11 happened. All air traffic was grounded for a week, and it took two months to return to normal. The 2001-2002 hunting season was seriously effected. His local bank, with a pro-hunting staff, said, "No problem, the SPA and FEMA will pay for much of the loss. We'll give you a $600,000 line of credit that will hold you over until the government pays you."

Mr. Drummond stated, "So I went to all the government organizations and applied for help. To make a long and sad story short, they all said that hunting, and hunting lodges, and everyone employed in hunting, and charter fishing boats, and everything in this field is classified as a hobby, and not an industry. As a hobby, they could not pay anything because they don't pay for hobby interruptions, only business interruptions. So, in disbelief I checked out the NAICS codes, and in fact everything connected to hunting is lumped into a giant category with 105 other classifications. Hunting and everyone employed in hunting do not have an NAICS code and are if fact, officially, a hobby."

Mr. Drummond went on to say, "I personally know of 25 hunting lodges that went out of business because of 9/11, and not being able to get any government help. A few years latter when hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, over a hundred sport fishing charter boats went bankrupt and out of business because they were classified as hobbies and could not get any government help. In my case, I had spent a good part of my bank's credit line. My bank was also shocked that hunting had no NAICS classification. I had to declare chapter 13 bankruptcy, and let all of my employees go. The lodge has been sitting empty for the last three years. On the other hand, there was a liquor store a few blocks away, where we purchased liquor for lodge, and our quests would order their liquor. Liquor stores have a NAICS classification and are considered a business. The liquor store received $300,000 from the government."

Mr. Drummond continued, "Hunting lodges, dog trainers, guides, sports fishing charter boats, and everything connected to hunting and fishing desperately need an NAICS classification as an industry. There will be other natural disasters and terrorist incidents, and we will not be able to collect anything from the government because officially we're not an industry. Naturally, I looked around for some help. I started by going to Doug Painter of the NSSF Basically, he and the NSSF staff just blew me off. I don't think there's one serious hunter in 20 who even knows the NSSF exists. I went to the NRA, and perhaps with some justification they said that industry classifications is an industry issue, and not for the NRA that's mainly an organization for individual firearms rights."

Mr. Drummond showed his aggravation by saying, "I went to Washington DC to see what I personally could do. There are a lot of big numbers about hunting and fishing thrown around. What I found was that the anti-hunting Congressmen consider the hunting industry numbers to be mainly fraudulent. They told me that there's no way to verify the numbers. It's a catch-22, without industry NAICS classifications you're not real. Banks use NAICS information for loans. It's used for disaster relief, employee benefits, tax breaks and tax credits, government grants to industries, all kinds of things. Without a classification as an industry that employees people and pays taxes, we're just a collection of individuals who kill little ducks and Bambi."

Our industry has to assume that the Clintons will be Presidents of the U.S. starting in January 2009.The Clintons have a score to settle with the firearms industry, and with hunters. We should assume that they are going to attack our industry at our weakest points. Our industry has to prepare now. Once the Clintons are in office, and they have the initiative, they will attack at the time and place of their choosing. It could be very bad. We have to assume that the Clintons learned a lot from their first attack against the industry, and won't do the same things in the same way. As a reminder, some of the lawsuits from the Clinton's first attack are still in court, and still bleeding our industry.

Mr. Drummond was blunt, "The manufacturers may be happy, but I can tell you that a lot of hunters are very unhappy. The hunters and shooters are the customers, and they have a feeling that a big storm is coming and the manufacturers are not doing anything. The manufacturers should stop talking to only those who are inside of their small closed circles, and start talking and listening to the people who are buying and using their products. I see things like the Congressional Sportsman Association, but it's only people who were already pro-firearms, and without pressure from the big boys in our industry they're not going to do anything. When I was talking to the NSSF they said that we can't ask for too much because that only draws attention to our industry. With the Clinton's controlling the justice Department, isn't it a little naive to believe they'll leave us alone? Personally, I'm a concerned hunter. I'm not in the hunting guide or lodge business anymore. I've gone back to being an engineer and I'm making a very good living as an engineer. However, I am very concerned about the sportsmen of America, and the people who are still in the hunting industry, and the future of hunting in America."

Mr. Drummond has organized a meeting of like minded people with the objective of getting NAICS classifications for hunting lodges, hunting guides, sport fishing charter boats and others. The meeting will open its doors at 8:00 AM, July 30th (a Monday) in Washington DC, in the Whittem Building, room 107A. The meeting is a "Discovery Meeting," by the Department of Agriculture (DOA), with Dr. Richard Reynolds from the DOA as chairman. It is by invitation only, so call Mr. Drummond. This will probably be the one and only chance for "Discovery" and possibly some NAICS classifications before the Clintons come into power. This could be a "do or die" meeting with the DOA. Mr. Drummond's email is [email protected], and his cell phone is 660-815-4936. If you cannot immediately get Mr. Drummond, you might try Mr. Ron Blesser of the Sugar Grove, Ohio, hunting club. His phone number is 740-746-8568.
_________________

The particulars are disturbing in this story, the generalities horrifying. I see a need....for a lot of folks living life with blinders on that need to be motivated. I am NOT referring to the Campfire audience, but rather those that we know that do not frequent cyberspace for whatever reason. Contact these folks, give them numbers with which to contact politicians....we need to motivate the vast majority of America to speak out, much as they did with the recent immigration bill.

We need a LOT of noise on this folks. What we've done is good, it needs to get better. A good goal in my mind is to let the liberals know that it's not just the NRA...it is the People, and the PEOPLE have a right to self defense...among other things. It would be good if liberals soiled their shorts when contemplating an assault on our sport and our right.

I really don't think that DMB will mind my ripping this Off, and posting it here, ......as it defines well the views of one "Sitting Senatorial Oversight Committee Member" / OSHA

***************************************

Obama Calls for Permanent Assault Weapons Ban to Combat Inner-City Violence
Sunday, July 15, 2007

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION

CHICAGO � Standing before a church congregation that has witnessed inner-city violence firsthand, Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Sunday that more must be done to end a social ill that is "sickening the soul of this nation."

Obama told churchgoers at the Vernon Park Church of God on Chicago's South Side that too many young lives are being claimed by violence and more must be done to combat the problem.

"From South Central L.A. to Newark, New Jersey, there's an epidemic of violence that's sickening the soul of this nation," the Illinois senator told the crowd. "The violence is unacceptable and it's got to stop."

Nearly three dozen Chicago students have been killed this year, according to Chicago Public Schools. Obama said that figure is higher than the number of Illinois serviceman who've died in Iraq in 2007.

"We need to express our collective anger through collective action," Obama said.

He said the government needs to permanently reinstate an assault weapons ban and close regulatory loopholes that protect unscrupulous gun dealers.

Dueling Iraq Speeches in Iowa for Obama, Clinton He also said government should support and fund more after-school programs to keep kids off the streets. But some of the burden must also be shouldered by residents who need to do more to raise and protect at-risk children, he added.

"We have an entire generation of young men in our society who have become products of violence, and we are going to have to break the cycle," Obama said. "There are too many young men out there who have gone down the wrong path."

He later added, "There's a reason they go out and shoot each other, because they don't love themselves. And the reason they don't love themselves is because we are not loving them enough."

********************************

I think that including it in this thread is appropriate, and thanks DMB for gettin' out.

These buggers ARE serious, ....insane, ...but serious.

GTC

Seems to be the day to rip off other threads, but again, it seems appropriate to post this GOOD NEWS here.

GTC

******************************

Labor Department Announces It Will Revise Overreaching OSHA Explosives Rule

Monday, July 16, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) announced it will significantly revise a recent proposal for new �explosives safety� regulations that caused serious concern among gun owners. OSHA had originally set out to update workplace safety regulations, but the proposed rules included restrictions that very few gun shops, sporting goods stores, shippers, or ammunition dealers could comply with.



Gun owners had filed a blizzard of negative comments urged by the NRA, and just a week ago, OSHA had already issued one extension for its public comment period at the request of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. After continued publicity through NRA alerts and the outdoor media, and after dozens of Members of Congress expressed concern about its impact, OSHA has wisely decided to go back to the drawing board.



Working with the NRA, Congressman Denny Rehberg (R-MT) planned to offer a floor amendment to the Labor-HHS appropriations bill this Wednesday when the House considers this legislation. His amendment would have prohibited federal funds from being used to enforce this OSHA regulation.



Such an amendment is no longer necessary since Kristine A. Iverson, the Labor Department�s Assistant Secretary for Congressional and Intergovernmental Affairs, sent Rep. Rehberg a letter, dated July 16, stating that it �was never the intention of OSHA to block the sale, transportation, or storage of small arms ammunition, and OSHA is taking prompt action to revise� this proposed rule to clarify the purpose of the regulation.



Also, working with the NRA, Congressman Doug Lamborn (R-CO) gathered signatures from 25 House colleagues for a letter, dated July 11, expressing concerns about this proposed OSHA rule. The letter calling the proposal �an undue burden on a single industry where facts do not support the need outlined by this proposed rule� and �not feasible, making it realistically impossible for companies to comply with its tenets.�



The OSHA proposal would have defined �explosives� to include �black powder, � small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition primers, [and] smokeless propellant,� and treated these items the same as the most volatile high explosives.



Under the proposed rule, a workplace that contained even a handful of small arms cartridges, for any reason, would have been considered a �facility containing explosives� and therefore subject to many impractical restrictions. For example, no one could carry �firearms, ammunition, or similar articles in facilities containing explosives � except as required for work duties.� Obviously, this rule would make it impossible to operate any kind of gun store, firing range, or gunsmith shop.



The public comment website for the proposed rule is no longer accessible. The Labor Department will publish a notice in the July 17 Federal Register announcing that a new rule proposal will soon be drafted for public comment. Needless to say, the NRA monitors proposed federal regulations to head off this kind of overreach, and will be alert for OSHA�s next draft.



Read the letter to Cong. Rehberg from the Labor Dept.

btt

OH Jeez, I think I wet my drawers while I was rolling around on the floor lmao.

Bless you all for pitching in....and let's not take this as a victory 'cause the fat lady hasn't sung yet......

Freedom, shall prevail lest we forget yesterday's fight.........

My Gut says this ain't over, we're just taking intermission, going out to take a ...., refresh our selves.

Act 2 follows.

and all of the 52 pages of "Language" still exist, in hard copy, and on hard drives........for their "Referance Material"

I say go foward with the proposed amendmant to nut this OSHA monster, and than fatten it for the kill.

We're inclined to be a bit benevolent, on winning .....and it's gonna' get us, in the end, if we don't temper it with some practical, and I guess vengeful wrath.

DEMAND accountability, and nothing less.

Heads, on pikes.

GTC

2283 now............Page 1, of 92.

HMmm, that's kinda' shiny.

Check it out.

GTC

Link:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocketDetail&d=OSHA-2007-0032

Kinda looks like the comment volume went geometric over the last few days and that's a GOOD thing.

We need to find out if the "Responses" are going to the right "Docket Number", ....or a Vacant adress.

Seems to me that the numerology was supposed to change, but that was per NRA ILA bulletin, ....No?

any thoughts on that...?

I'm confused.

GTC

Dang, I like you more and more with each post...

I take back all the mean things I said...

I had the 4th comment on there; I feel kinda special (not the short bus special either).

They've closed the comment period (and therefore shut down the comment page) until they post the new proposal.

You can still see the old proposal--just have to check the box for "all proposed rules" instead of the default setting, which is "rules open for comment."

Hmm, very early this AM, ....the "Comments" Numbered 2283. now a little over 10 hours later, they're at 2484.......per the link above.

I guess they're going to post eveything that came in before closing the comment period?

Nice to see those numbers stacking up, regardless.

GTC

Check it out,

Link:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocketDetail&d=OSHA-2007-0032

Grinning here, GTC

Something else is not right. The comments posted go from 7-2 to 7-9. I posted on 7-5 and received an email with a tracking number from OSHA. However when I search on that tracking number it comes back with "not found".

2712!

Bill, I think there are two different places to put comments at this point, one for the original proposal and another for the extension. Maybe you got crosswise with the two?

I read a moment ago that Rush went off on this again today. Anybody catch his commentary?

The sun sets on a smoky battlefield as the medics help the wounded and others bury the dead. Sadly, this was only a battle, not the resolution of the war. The Second Battle of Little OSHA Hill looms on the horizon...... Yellow Hair is obligated, no, destined to attempt rallying his forces for another try at quelling the savage uprising....

I caught a bit of this, sounds like OSHA is backpeddling......can't stand the heat! I'm not sure it's totally dead yet, but I think it might be.......... they know we're on to them, and their adgenda.
1D

Fight....the Good Fight.

Stay the course...

We shall Champion Liberty, Defend Freedom....and Demand Justice.

Labor Department Announces It Will Revise Overreaching OSHA Explosives Rule

Monday, July 16, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) announced it will significantly revise a recent proposal for new �explosives safety� regulations that caused serious concern among gun owners. OSHA had originally set out to update workplace safety regulations, but the proposed rules included restrictions that very few gun shops, sporting goods stores, shippers, or ammunition dealers could comply with.



Gun owners had filed a blizzard of negative comments urged by the NRA, and just a week ago, OSHA had already issued one extension for its public comment period at the request of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. After continued publicity through NRA alerts and the outdoor media, and after dozens of Members of Congress expressed concern about its impact, OSHA has wisely decided to go back to the drawing board.



Working with the NRA, Congressman Denny Rehberg (R-MT) planned to offer a floor amendment to the Labor-HHS appropriations bill this Wednesday when the House considers this legislation. His amendment would have prohibited federal funds from being used to enforce this OSHA regulation.



Such an amendment is no longer necessary since Kristine A. Iverson, the Labor Department�s Assistant Secretary for Congressional and Intergovernmental Affairs, sent Rep. Rehberg a letter, dated July 16, stating that it �was never the intention of OSHA to block the sale, transportation, or storage of small arms ammunition, and OSHA is taking prompt action to revise� this proposed rule to clarify the purpose of the regulation.



Also, working with the NRA, Congressman Doug Lamborn (R-CO) gathered signatures from 25 House colleagues for a letter, dated July 11, expressing concerns about this proposed OSHA rule. The letter called the proposal �an undue burden on a single industry where facts do not support the need outlined by this proposed rule� and �not feasible, making it realistically impossible for companies to comply with its tenets.�



The OSHA proposal would have defined �explosives� to include �black powder, � small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition primers, [and] smokeless propellant,� and treated these items the same as the most volatile high explosives.



Under the proposed rule, a workplace that contained even a handful of small arms cartridges, for any reason, would have been considered a �facility containing explosives� and therefore subject to many impractical restrictions. For example, no one could carry �firearms, ammunition, or similar articles in facilities containing explosives � except as required for work duties.� Obviously, this rule would make it impossible to operate any kind of gun store, firing range, or gunsmith shop.



The public comment website for the proposed rule is no longer accessible. The Labor Department will publish a notice in the July 17 Federal Register announcing that a new rule proposal will soon be drafted for public comment. Needless to say, the NRA monitors proposed federal regulations to head off this kind of overreach, and will be alert for OSHA�s next draft.



Read the letter to Cong. Rehberg from the Labor Dept.



Read OSHA's notice




Voter Information



Related Links




Labor Department Announces It Will Revise Overreaching OSHA Explosives Rule


The Facts About OSHA's Ammunition Proposal


U.S. House Appropriations Committee Preserves Tiahrt Amendment!


OHSA Grants 60 day extension on Proposed "Safety" Rule That Would Address Ammunition Sales


Proposed �Safety� Regulations Would Dry Up Ammunition Sales


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MAKE YOURSELF HEARD AT TOWN HALL MEETINGS!

RAISING AWARENESS ON-LINE: PERSON-TO-PERSON-TO-PERSON NETWORKING

"The Activist�s Corner"--Peer-To-Peer Education

Gateway To Success! St. Louis Annual Meetings Shatter Records!

St. Louis Workshop Tremendous Success!

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I think it time to let this chapter close although there is certainly another skirmish on the horizon. A heartfelt thanks to all is in order I think!

If ever there were an example of what a little focused anger can accomplish this affair would rank up near the top. When OSHA submits their "new and improved" version of this rule, and they have stated clearly that they will, it is up to us to know when it hits the street and what it says. My own personal intent is to check back on www.regulations.gov periodically just so's I can field that line drive. Wouldn't mind a little help as I have no particular interest in being the first kid on the block and all that stuff. My fear is trickery and slight of hand. Bureaucrats are notorious for such shenanigans. I'm paranoid enough to think they might try something like not classifying ammo as an explosive but doing so with components and leaving the previously proposed shipping rules in place. Hey, they're people and it's easy to use the existing proposal as a "draft" and "Oh gee, we didn't mean to leave that in there, so sorry." It's folks like OSHA that made cynical an everyday word...with a little help from their oversight committee.

Thanks again to all and for all your effort. Keep your powder dry!

Unfortunately, I dont think we will see an end to this war. Fortunately, we seem to be winning nearly all the battles. The DC handgun ban is on the way to the SCOTUS - another MAJOR battle in which we won a small battle leading up to this big one. Only by being ever vigilant can we head-off the swine-born techniques of back-dooring gun-banning legislation/regulation(s) of the democrats.

I agree wholeheartedly that this is not victory. It reminds me of 9/11 in a way. Whoever woulda thunk that terrorists would hijack planes and fly them into buildings? Well, now who woulda thunk that the enemy of gun owners would have been OSHA?

There's no telling where an attack will come from next! We must always be on guard and ready to act. Never think that further attacks won't happen or be successful.

Dave

Hillary, Barak and Co.,... sit on the oversight comittee, surprises me none that this was drempt up...

An attack like this will come from wherever they are...

Vigilance friends.............

I'm really feelin' a bit thrashed, a....rode hard, put away wet, like feelin'....but still enjoying that warm glow that accompanies the fatigue of a job well done....

Dan's right, we need to birdog this thing on an ongoing basis, and remain ready to mobilize again.......once the "New and Improved ( with enzymes)" version of this crap lands .....

I'm on record, as to wanting some real accountability, so won't belabor the point........suffice it to say that there's folks with some explaining to do.......

Sincerist thanks, and deep respect for all those who took the time to jump in......this WAS a close run thing,...No?

For those that haven't, ....to voice your concern about thieving low lives trying to steal and destroy your birthrights......use the links in this very interesting thread to get up to speed, and contact your reps and congress critters, State G&F, etc..

This sorta' activism works, and will continue to work,......

.............like W.W. says, we just have to stay the course.

Work Safe,

GTC

I sent them a little love note too - with a special word to the republicans on the committee.