After all the condemnation I've read of the polygamist outfit in Texas, the state appellate court says different.......

The state had no right


Casey

That is what I was trying to get at.

Nacy Grace was cryin about it on TV while I was working out in the Wellness Center tonight. Man I'd like to b$tch slap that unt.

Good for them!!

I could see it coming. Shades of Ruby Ridge and Waco still haunt many good people. Those snatch and grabs just don't feel good.

I don't know how I feel about the facts but I sure question the tactics.

+1

Spot on!



Also, SPOT-ON!

I now have much less respect for Texas [government] than I did prior to this draconian cluster-flop.

holy smokes, you don't mean to tell me freedom still rings in the heart of some of you and some of the good folks in Texas, do you?


though I will say the poor LEO's were in a pickle, they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

we've encountered a slippery slope in trying to determine the welfare of children versus the right to privacy.

course it's the dem mantra "tis for the children!"

AKHunter ...... I'm not from Texas!

But you're 'jist' is correct - so much for the "freedom" of the lone-star state.

As for the cops and lawyers and judges and other gubmntl thugs, damn I would love to see how those bastards felt if their families were disrupted and children ripped from them at gun point!

Even if "by accident" and "good intentions."

Added: Gubmnt and good intentions apparently justifies "making the law up as they go." (or IOW, gubmnt is above the law)

Wait till Oprah finds out!

Guess it's okay then for cults to force 13 year olds to marry? Or 16?

I don't get it.. The biggest thing I'm upset about is the amount of weaponry involved in original bust. I'm very tired of assault rifles and swat tactics being used on civilians who aren't armed.

But I'm all in favor of pulling the kids away until the truth is found out about whether children are being forced to marry in that group. I'd rather the authorities had found a better way to do it, but I'm not the one in charge who has to follow a rats nest of regulations and rules.

Now, if a little court ordered DNA testing doesn't identify parents, then end it quick and let the families go home.

Jmho..

Obviously a very screwed up mess. I just wish we knew the truth regarding the allegations. If they were in fact forcing young girls into prearanged marriages, then interdiction was needed. If the allegations were true, then the kids should be removed from that environment.

I think it is none of the states business in this case unless they can prove underage sex between a minor and and adult is going on. There was no evidence of physical or mental abuse taking place that I saw, thus they had NO reason to TAKE all those children at GUNPOINT or any other way.

And what ever happened to FREEDOM of RELIGION???????

If the gays and other deviants can have rights and shove them down our throats why don't the same rules apply to Religious groups. The nanny state does far more harm than good IMHO.

Yep, "Let's do it for the children" may be the most dangerous mantra government has yet devised........




Casey

I do get what you are saying, but, what about the children. The mothers are more to blame here than anyone if the allegations are true. They are the scum for letting it happen to their little girls to begin with. The problem is, what if there were cult type "offerings" where these kids were sacrificed? Then what? I agree there is a fine line here, but even if one kid is protected from their "husbands" and so called mothers, then law enforcement did the right thing. If murders were taking place beause it was a freedom of religion, would it not be ok to go in and take them down. Freedom of religion is one thing, rape incest and illegal marriges is another. JMO


Clyde

Yep. Texas was wrong on this one from the start. Can't have the government coming in and severing families with the force of law based on anonymous phone calls.

I wish the "if the allegations are true" crowd would stop and think how easy it would be for allegations to be made against them.

No charges have been filed and at least one of the "under age girls" was 27.

The LEO's had an investigation going for a couple of years.. the phone call was the final straw. Now, the fact that the phone call turned out to be false shouldn't be held against the LEO's.

It wasn't an anonymous phone call, it was a fake phone call. Somebody claiming to be a 16 year old being forced into marriage if I remember.

Next time you can man the 911 phone lines and say, "I'm sorry, we can't respond because you might be lying. Just lie there and take it, and sorry if he kills you. Have a nice day."

Geez..

So there's nothing in between not responding at all and taking every kid and female that appears to be "young" in the complex into state custody?


Geez yourself

The thing is those things WERE NOT going on, nothing has been proven. Have some of you folks ever heard of the Fourth Amendment? What if just don't cut it. Like Sgt. Friday used to say "The facts, just the facts."

I could postulate you were a closet pedophile and had child pornography on your computer. Would that allow me to bust in with guns and take your kids???????

I suspect that most of us would agree that we don't want 13 yr old girls married and kicking out babies. Where that is truly an issue it should be addressed. The states error was in rounding up an entire community.

None of use feel we should go to jail just because the neighbors on both sides might be involved in something a bit shady.

The state may indeed make a few cases, but I suspect they will have to pay big time to the families that were truly abiding by our moderan standards. Hope the state has a little oil they can tap into. 1Minute

You mean religious groups like Muslims who want to institute Sharia law in thier communities? You know stuff like wife beating, selling children as brides, and holding female servants as sexual, as well as domestic slaves, "temporary" marriages, etc. As far as the deviants go, I would call grown men impregnating 12 year olds pretty deviant. The state of Texas has problems with their case, the fake phone call as PC for the search warrant being the biggest one, but given the history of this cult, it is hard to believe that child abuse isn't happening.

If somebody faked a phone call from one of my kids saying that it was happening, I fully know it would happen. 100% guaranteed.. probably with M16's and armored vehicles.

So far they have had 31 underage mothers into foster care, and 15 have been shown to not be underage. That leaves 16.. in an environment where the girls were never allowed near any outside boys.

A cult setting is different than a single family setting. Especially a cult setting where the leader of the cult was on the FBI's most wanted list for a while and is sitting in jail on the exact same charges being presented by a fake phone call.

White folks have a "history" of enslaving blacks. Christians have a "history" of burning people at the stake. Are all white people and Christians today guilty?

If there's a case, prove it. What some other member of their group did in the past is not at issue here.

see? i told ya !

moaning, and wailing and gnashing of teeth!

The system is not perfect, but I prefer it be in fault towards personal liberty.

As I stated in the original post involving this topic, how will YOU feel/deal when there is a false allegation made against YOU? When you are made to pay the price before there is any proof, or conviction in court, how in hell is that any kind of justice? I would imagine all those of you who are for the state having ultimate power to do as they please must be very well off, so that if it happened to you it would be no big deal to come up with the resources to go head to head with state or federal government...who have all the resources anyone could ever imagine.

Since this judgment has come down, I have heard no more breathless hype about how MOST ALL the teenage girls are, or have been, pregnant. Think the news folks might have been spouting a big steamy cloud of schit on this? If what was being reported was even close to the truth we would not be having this discussion.

Score one of many to come for the innocent kids. After a couple of indictments, maybe they'll outlaw sex with the underage kids, as well.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Polygamist Sect Outlaws Underage Marriage After Return of 430 Children
Monday, June 02, 2008


SAN ANGELO, Texas � Parents of children taken by Texas authorities during a raid on a polygamist sect's ranch began to reunite with their kids Monday, hours after a state district judge ordered the immediate return of more than 400 juveniles, bringing an abrupt end to one of the largest custody cases in U.S. history.

Late Monday, Willie Jessop, an elder for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, said the church won't allow underage girls to marry. Jessop told the AP the new policy will forbid any girl to marry who is not of legal consent age in the state where she lives.

Jessop said the church has been widely misunderstood, but he said the church will not sanction marriages of underage girls and will counsel members against such unions. He insisted marriages within the church have always been consensual.

Cool--I'm glad they did that. Indeed, that may be a brilliant response to the events that have taken place surrounding the FLDS.

But.......just because the FLDS leader outlawed underage marriage, doesn't mean it was taking place--or if it was, that underage marriage was common in FLDS.

When the LDS banned polygamy over a century ago, most Morman men only had one wife--polygamist marriages were the minority. Probably a large minority, but still a minority.

Ya' think Elvis Presley would survive CPS and Nancy Grace today if he married his 14 year first cousin?.......



Casey

Jerry Lee Lewis......not Elvis.

Jerry Lee Lewis's career was over when he married his 14 Y.O. cousin......

Oops--you're right!

It's all Rock & Roll to me........



Casey

i have to say...........horse chit.......the mothers were brought up in the exact same environment, as far as the mothers knew this was how the world worked....these mothers arent the same as your wife or girlfriend....they have been raised the same way that their kids are being raised without much connection to the outside world....how in the hell can you hold them accountable and call them scum? they likely and truly didnt know any better cause the leaders of the group wanted it that way.........

Your argument about the mother's not knowing any better reflects my feelings about the folks who don't see anything wrong with how this went down...cause their government leaders want it that way.

Not picking on you, just thought it might be an instructive observation.

It's wrong for religious fanatics/pervs to propagandize people in their group, but it's good when the gov does it through public schooling?