It's the market.

Bush's bail-out plan gets shot down today; Pelosi delivers the most partisan speech she can, right before the vote, intentionally killing the bill.

Bush comes out immediately after, "very disappointed".

Less than 20 minutes later, Obama comes out saying he doesn't believe that the bail-out is dead yet.

The Dems roll-out their own bill tonight, and start debate on it tomorrow.

Obama will headline the drive to get it passed. It will pass on a party-line vote late tomorrow evening or more likely Wednesday morning.

The markets tanked today; nearly 10% down just today. They will not recover by the end of tomorrow. IRA, 401k, and investment account quarterly statements close at 4 p.m. tomorrow. They will be down, and greatly. Those statements ("the last statements under the Bush/Republican economic plan") will arrive between October 10 and October 15; less than one month, likely less than 3 weeks prior to the election, and just about exactly coinciding with the next POTUS debate (on the economy, btw).

The market will rally Wednesday after the Obama bill passes.

The attitude will be that the Republicans/Bush/McCain caused this, and couldn't do anything about it; Obama can and did.

McCain can't recover from this one, I fear.

Costing the American people millions, creating fear, and intentionally tanking the market, all to win the election. Helluva portence for an Obama presidency.

Surprised?

At what they did, yes. At why, no.

Socialists, and their ilk don't want a middle class.
they want a governing elite, issuing what we workers need.

the remaining 90% of the population are workers, supporting the Great State, that the socialists wish to govern.

you've posited a scary scenario. may it never happen!

It is happening, right now. Check the news (cnn.com); it's happening right now.

40% of Democratic congress people voted against it. Why was Pelosi whining?

BOY I sure do hope your right Mr.Nimrod!!!!!! Mr. Obama needs ALL the help he can get and them TSX's in .257cal. will SHONUFF be nice come Nov 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...

It's a set-up.

This was the "Bush bill".

Obama will ride back to Washington tonight or tomorrow, and deliver a bill to the Democratic leadership. They will vote, almost lock-step for it, and Bush will have to sign the "Obama bill".

The market tanked when Bush couldn't get it done. The statements will show up 3-4 weeks out from the election and timed to coincide with the next POTUS debate. The markets will rally when the bail-out is passed, and it'll be "Obama's bill" that does it.

Pelosi's speech and post-vote whining is a set-up.

Amazing the depths that Dems will plunge this country and our citizens to, just to have their socialist messiah elected.

You wanted him; well, it looks like he'll bankrupt us all to get us what you wanted.

Well, if they try to make it look like Bush failed, Obama prevailed, Bush can veto and it's not a filibuster proof congress on a Wall Street bailout. There are a certain number of blue dogs that probably voted against this today out of principal.


Hope you're wrong, wouldn't bet too much against it though.

The market tanking hasn't cost anyone a dime that had the brains to not sell anything. It will recover and if you hold your stuff in it long enough you'll get all of your value back and then some. This is a perfect time to buy actually.

You know that; I know that; but you and I also know exactly how this gets played at home, at the kitchen table, on the air-waves, and in Congress.

Perception creates it's own reality.

Serously and if your right things of such have been going on in politics like this for so long it's scary. To say the least I see it all the time not only in politics, but even here working for the Government......it is what it is what we need to do(not preaching) is stay prayed up about the whole bail out situation that this is resolved in a orderly fashion so that the economy can get a spark.

Statement from McCain campaign:

From the minute John McCain suspended his campaign and arrived in Washington to address this crisis, he was attacked by the Democratic leadership: Senators Obama and Reid, Speaker Pelosi and others. Their partisan attacks were an effort to gain political advantage during a national economic crisis. By doing so, they put at risk the homes, livelihoods and savings of millions of American families.
Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain, and refused to even say if he supported the final bill.

Just before the vote, when the outcome was still in doubt, Speaker Pelosi gave a strongly worded partisan speech and poisoned the outcome.

This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country.

So, you work for the gov't?

Personally, I think the bail-out/buy-out should fail; the market is already correcting itself. Let the market work; keep gov't out of it, and out of our pockets for even more taxes.

When Obama goes back to Washington, and the "Obama bill" passes, McCain's statement won't play in Peoria. Regardless of fact.

Seems as if they have passed this off as a GOP induced problem. I couldn't believe my ears during the debate when Obama said this problem was caused by "failed policies of the last eight years", leaving the impression it was the Bush admins problem. Worse yet, McCain didn't even challenge him on it.

Seems from everyting I have read on the subject has the Dems up to their elbows in this mess, but it seems they're getting a pass.

It certainly sounds interesting, but the way things look on November 4 probably will have a larger impact than how they look on Wednesday. Then there are those pesky constituent calls.

Yes Sir I do, as per the bail-out/buy-out failing I wanted it to pass(if it was formatted right) and I understand your rationalization, but the market is correcting itself in slow motion not saying it'll take 40 years. I do fill the plan would have put an immediate spark on the economy like RIGHT now and if Congress can get a bill passed it will jump start the economy. HOPEFULLY the plan/bill that Congress put forth will be handled accordingly.

The economy doesn't need a jump start. Most sectors of it are doing just fine. If they really wanted to jump start it they'd split that money up among the taxpayers...who'd pay taxes so at least 20% of it would come right back to the treasury and the rest would be spent to pay bills, buy stuff, and get things rolling just fine.

Those weak and greedy banks will get bought up by the more successfull ones and things will be back to borrowing and lending in no time. Maybe, just maybe, they'll learn about greed, risk, and bad gambles but maybe not.

Exactly; the market is already correcting itself, and pretty damned quickly, considering.

The gov't is grabbing and trying to socialize the entire economy; and both parties are to blame.

But wouldn't it be just the most delicious backfire if the bill doesn't pass, the markets and the banks start to recover, and Barack is left standing there stammering?

It would only take a few days, a few announcements by banks that "We're gonna be fine," and a few pointed accusations by the GOP.

Who was greedier?

The bank who provided the loan or the person who accepted it, based on NINJA principles or accepted it for a house well above their income level with the idea of living cheaply and flipping the house to make a buck?

Why is it different for the average joe to make a buck but not the bank?

Won't happen in time; Obama and the Dems will pass, in lock step, any bill Obama floats.

I understand.....point taken, but me personnally and I could be wrong do fill something has to happen as in this bail/buy out, possibly helping the economy get going in a quick progressing manner.

By the time An Obammybill gets wrangled out in House and Senate, we could already be seeing an improvement. The, if Bush says "We needed a bill that would help the problem. This isn't it," and vetoes it, then the Demos would be stuck between trying again and leaving Washington to campaign. My bet is on the bastards leaving town with it all undone.

Probably for the best, too. It was Congress that got us into this mess. Them trying to fix it would just make things worse, IMO.

The difference? Banks have been in business for a long time. The people running them are supposedly experts in their field and they bear a fiduciary responsibility to their investors that a private person with most likely less knowledge and education doesn't have. The private person is only risking their own money and credit rating, the banker is playing with other people's money.

It's kind of like expecting a professional race car driver racing for a team in someone else's car to have a tad more skill than some ham and egg commuter driving their own Yugo.
See the difference now?

Keep in mind, the banks are forced by CRA and HUD to lend a percentage of their loans to high risk borrowers or face penalties or worse.

Banks were greedy, but they were also blackmailed.

I fail to see how it was the Republicans who caused this legislation to crash and burn. Democrats voted 140 to 95 in favor of the legislation, while just 65 Republicans backed the bill and 133 opposed it, so the vote was 228 nay, 205 yea.

If only 12 of the 95 Democrats had voted for it, it would have passed 217-216, and the President would have signed it. But -- the Republicans get blamed.

I smell a set up. The next bill that comes up will have Democrats voting in lock-step, and cheering that those bad Republicans couldn't defeat the bill.

Steve

And who was it that forced them to make those guaranteed loss loans? Yup, The very same Demo buffoons who now are trying to "fix" it all.

Fellas, it's a set-up, pure and simple. That's my position at the beginning of this thread, and I fear I'll be proven right.

This has nothing to do with the economy or finances, but everything to do with the election and politics.

It may well be. But, that would be an exceptionally bold move and uncharacteristic for a guy who got his start in politics by voting "present," and who can't answer a simple question without a song and dance routine. His candidacy appears to be picking up steam, so I don't see a reason for him to take a gamble at this point and bet it all on what the stock market looks like 5 weeks from now.

I don't think Obammy is driving this bus, he's just along for the ride.

+1.

That doesn't mean his handlers and financiers won't know how to exploit this to his advantage.

The MSM have done their job well, it seems.

I'm not seeing that. I think the bill never had a chance and both sides knew it. The GOP is blaming the stupid speach Pelosi made, which was a pretty stupid thing to do if she thought their was ever really a deal that would pass.

I think this is about 548( I think that's the number of congressmen that are all up for re-election in Nov. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that one.) congressmen and women that hope to get reelected in 5 weeks. This package is so unpopular they are scared for their lives to approve this thing whether it's the right thing to do or not.

I don't think anyone has that level of control over this process to orchestrate your idea.

Except Obama's comments in support of the bill were virtually identical to McCain's. McCain is the one that turned this into a circus with the whole campaign suspension thing.

Larry Kudlow, earlier today.


The End of the U.S. Financial System as We Know It? [Larry Kudlow]



A number of Republican House members and staff, along with others who are plugged in, are telling me that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats will come back with a new bill that includes all the left-wing stuff that was scrubbed from the bill that was defeated today in the House.

As this scenario goes, the House Democrats need 218 votes, and they have to pick up a number of black and Hispanic House members who jumped ship because the Wall Street provisions, in their view, were too benign. So things like the bankruptcy judges setting mortgage terms and rates, the ACORN slush-fund spending, the union proxy for corporate boards, stricter limits on executive compensation, and much larger equity ownership of selling banks through warrants will all find itself back in the new bill. Of course, this scenario will lose more Republican votes. But insiders tell me President Bush will take Secretary Paulson�s advice and sign that kind of legislation.

Personally, if this scenario plays out, I would probably withdraw my support for the rescue mission and switch to plan B, which would center on the FDIC and its bank-recapitalization powers. The bank-ownership issue, in particular, could lead to heavy nationalization of America�s financial system with a three-house Democratic sweep in November.

I�m not forecasting, because I don�t know the next bill�s content. And while McCain�s polls are heading south, he could still win. But a three-house Dem sweep to implement some off the very onerous provisions being talked about could set up the end of the U.S. financial system as we know it.

I�m gonna wait and see. Obviously, the financial markets are in total collapse today. And the economic outlook is suffering.

Tough day. One of the worst I can remember.

Obama's not driving the bus, and of course he's not going to be the "face" for the new, ultraleftist version which Pelosi and Reid will concoct by reinserting every provision the Republicans removed. He can smile his idiotic sphinxlike smile while the congressional leadership does the dirty work. And ACORN will get hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars which it will then funnel back into the campaigns of the democrats who passed the legislation. The markets will recover, and the media will cooperate in the lie that the democrats saved the country from the evil republican tools of wall street.

Don't try to understand US politics, Martin.....it makes very little sense even to those of us who live it.

WTF is ACORN?

What it is really about is that Capitol Hill is being INUDATED with messages from constituents who are opposed to the Wall Street bailout...........

The Blue-Red Teams are in a pickle--do they listen to the power structure that provides them the free dinners?--Or do they listen to the people who can vote?

At least for today, score one for Democracy.........


Casey

Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now

It's a means to funnel tax money to African American community organizers and then back to the politicians that support them.

I know right...

My point is, when that family takes the Yugo onto the Talledaga track, during a race and when he has been told ALL his life that you don't go on the track on race day and get's T-boned at 185 - I blame the idiot for being on the track, not the car driver.

The American tax payer is the one put us in this situation. HE is the one that went looking for money when there was no way in hell he should have. The bank on the other hand was, as someone suggested, blackmailed into giving the loans.

I find it odd that people who are smart enough to realize that a Nigerian whom you never talked to, promising you money is a bad deal - couldn't see the same when they applied for a loan of 200k on income that wouldn't let them get a new car in most cases. Now who was greedy and looking past common sense for the idea of making a quick buck?

Rocky said
And who was it that forced them to make those guaranteed loss loans? Yup, The very same Demo buffoons who now are trying to "fix" it all.

The main steam media don't care. They have drank the democrat and Obama kool aid and are in denial and refuse to acknowledge the democrat culpability in this whole fiasco. We are alone in the world and socialist world does not care. We are out numbered and surrounded. This will either be our finest hour or our ultimate demise. kwg

ACORN is a jobs program for un employeed democrats who want to buy a home with someone elses money. kwg

Mister "on the periphery" Obama, can't muster a stand on anything specific. But I agree, the ones who change his diapers will lead his nose to the forefront of a new democrat plan to rescue America. How could Pelosi NOT know that so many of her buddies would vote this plan down. Way too many incongruencies. Something smells here. VA man may be on to something.

$12.00 per month average salary under castro in cuba creates it's own reality too. But, we got Mikey Moore trying to glamorize their system as best in the world. Who do you believe?

Pretty scarey huh? Somebody already said perception is everything. Truth is incidental.

One part of the mechanism Obama will use to perpetuate himself. Another is his concept of a 'Civilian Defense Corps.' As we've already seen in MO, the Obama Red Guard (or are they Hussein fedayeen?) has started to enforce political orthodoxy by threatening prosecution of news organizations that air ads critical to BHO's campaign (Source: FNC, Special Report/Britt Hume, tonight). Let's hope VAnimrod's scenario doesn't play out. If it does, the Bill of Rights may be a list of the new administration's priorities for progressive abrogation of our traditional rights.

You can't make this stuff up, incredible. Obama campaign wants to sue the NRA, mainly because he has a memory problem.

ACORN is or has a voter registration component. From what I understand it focuses on groups who have not or presently not participating in the election process. It appears to concentrate on the usual suspects: Inner city residents, the homeless, felons and/or ex-felons,substance abusers, those of doubtful documentation, graveyard denizens etc. From what I read or hear there have been numerous charges of voter fraud and irregurlarity. All of the financing for this comes from us the "patriotic" (patererotic?) taxpayer. Members of an un-named political party tried to include funding for ACORN in the bail-out bill.

The scenario you laid out is scary to say the least. I hope it doesn't happen and it still looks like it'll be tough to muster the votes. 40% of the Dems and 2/3 of the Repub voted no according to Fox.

I believe ACORN is under investigation in MI for voter registration fraud. You'll never guess in which communities though.

And, if only 12 Democrats out of the 95 who voted NO would have voted YES, the bill would have passed. And, believe it or not, 12 Democrat members of Barney Frank's committee voted NO. Do we need to know anything else? It was Barney Frank and the Democrat majority who couldn't deliver.

Steve