WASHINGTON (AFP) � US elected officials scored abysmally on a test measuring their civic knowledge, with an average grade of just 44 percent, the group that organized the exam said Thursday.

Ordinary citizens did not fare much better, scoring just 49 percent correct on the 33 exam questions compiled by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute (ISI).

"It is disturbing enough that the general public failed ISI's civic literacy test, but when you consider the even more dismal scores of elected officials, you have to be concerned," said Josiah Bunting, chairman of the National Civic Literacy Board at ISI.

"How can political leaders make informed decisions if they don't understand the American experience?" he added.

The exam questions covered American history, the workings of the US government and economics.

With way to many failed policies should it surprise us that the leadership in Washington is uneducated to ....."the workings of the US government and economics".


Business as usual!

I don't understand the "American experince" either. We are a long way from a respresentative of a group of people meeting with the same; talking about the needs they have, and making decisions about how to handle it INCLUDING not harming those with a minority viewpoint. As for economics, it has been said that there is no such thing as rising above the subsistence level for the majority. Now my subsistence level is well above a lot of the world, though.

Now it is rapine for the government, how to launder money, and paybacks.

Not surprised at all, 90% of Americans have no idea how the government is supposed to work or what is ACTUALLY IN the Constitution.

Would an Intelligent sane person really want to put themself through public office service after the dirt they dig up on anyone that does?

It is pathetic that most issues are decided on "feelings" rather than facts, but worse is the select enforcement of rules and laws. Too many decisions are based on lies and mis-representations made not only the media, but many politicians.

Many don't need to know "civics" when being untruthful gets them farther along.

I'd sure like to see the exam.

http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx

I scored in the low 80's, but I still think the answers to two of my questions the test considers wrong were more accurate that the answer that they deemed correct.

It truly is disturbing that elected officials averaged 44%.

I was very lucky in the late 60's civics class.We had a teacher that made it great to learn.His name was Mr Sullivan,a great teacher.It has been a long time and I believe that I remember most of that class.

Crap. I would have gotten all but one right (the one about Lincoln and Douglas) except that I got distracted, clicked the wrong radio button, and claimed that the President has the power to declare war. Argh. Drives me nuts that there's a record somewhere now saying that yet another person believes the President can declare war.

Growl.

28 out of 33 (sic). Some of the questions were loaded to reflect the writer's bias. We would all do the same.

i got about 70%.....my wife got 66%......though as soon as i was shown the right answers on some it was "duh, i knew that" type reaction.....not bad since its been over 8 years since i was in the classroom and our history/civics teachers here were not the best......not to mention its Sunday morning and i havent had my morning caffeine yet.....

Got a 93.94%. Maybe I should run for Congress? What a joke. What really aggravated me were the Keynesian nostrums about increasing spending to "stimulate" the economy, like we haven't tried that over the last 70 years-to no good effect.

75.76% or 25 of 33

Guess I'm just a DA

Mike

27 out of 33. guess I'm just a DA as well. Tim

I would like to know what the sampling of the general public was made up of. Did they test just collage students? or was it a test of the general public at large and how did they recrute the peaple who took the test? This is the first I ever heard of such a test, and I am about as general public as you would find.

You're certainly not stupid enough to fit in with our elected officials. You'd have to go to work every day drunk or stoned to dummy down to their levels.

I got a 84.5% and agree that a couple of the questions are quite disputable. The ones I plainly missed were some historical ones that I distilled down to two answers and flubbed the remaining guess.

I'm appalled at the the level of understanding the cretins we elect possess. But as mentioned, not surprised. Good reason to kick them out by any means necessary and get real Americans running this show.........and soon!!

31 out of 33. 93.94%, although some of the questions were opinion and not fact. You had to guess at what the questioners wanted for answers rather than answer with a fact. Much like public schools.

It would make a good poll test.

God forfend that someone might actually have to have some knowledge of the system in order to vote! That would put most Hussein voters out of the running, as would being property owners or paying taxes. We have a MUCH better system when using universal suffrage and everyone including dogs and dead people can exercise their franchise-ask ACORN, they know.

100%, but I agree that some of the questions were pure opinion.

Scored 87.88%. Interesting quiz.

I scored 32/33 (97% or as they put it 96.97%). I missed the one about where the phrase "Government of the people, by the people, for the people" originated. Of course, sometimes it seems our elected officials have never even heard the concept, much less be able to place its origin (or at least the first famous mention of the phrase).

I would argue that some of the questions that might be viewed as "opinion" questions are actually asking for the most accurate answer. There were some questions with potential answers that were almost right, but not quite (I was going to list some of those, but I didn't want to spoil the quiz for those who want to take it after reading this thread). In a number of cases, one possible answer looked right except for one or two key words that made that answer less accurate than another one. Teachers often put a number of those types of possible answers on multiple choice exams to test for knowledge of fine details (nuances) and get a spread in the test scores (otherwise you would have a lot of scores grouped closely together).

There was one question that I didn't like at all. I knew the right answer to the question about what a "progressive tax" is in light of the way the term is used by many politicians, media members, and others, but what is called "progressive tax" is really regressive in terms of what our government should be promoting (i.e., the term is a misnomer unless you have a socialist bent). In my opinion, we should have a tax program like Mike Huckabee was advocating during his run for president.

31 out of 33 (93.94%)

Thanks Bristoe. I put it in my favorites and will take the test when I have the chance.

I got a hundred....do I get, like, a tax refund or something?

29 out of 33 87.8%

learned some things, and some answers I disagree with.


really embarrassing but gotta tell it on myself, missed the "for, by, the people" G.A. sheesh Abe must be spinnin due to my ignorance

I'll admit it, 80%, guess I'm slightly better than average. I agree, there were a couple in there that you had to guess as to what the question maker was wanting for the answer, rather than giving the correct answer.

Maybe an obligation to run for something.

I got the same score and have the same exact opinion.

Well, Sarah Palin did not understand the constitutional role of the Vice President either, so lack of knowledge seems to be universal!

26 out of 33 for me. Like mike762, I didn't agree with "spending money during a recession" to stimulate the economy.

I missed the Gettysburg Address question, too.

32 out of 33 or 96.97%. Missed: Question #29 - B. a resident can benefit from it without directly paying for it.

Not a difficult quiz but could challenge some loud mouth politicians who speak before thinking!

He// no! You get penalized with more taxes and less freedom. The most productive members of society are supposed to be slaves to the least, aren't they? Now get back to work!

Actually the phrase �Government of the people, for the people, by the people� was used in writings by several authors previously. Rarely, do they get credit for this great statement. But in the quiz, the Gerrysburg Address is the closest to fact, even if Lincoln plagerized the statement.

Lincoln had a lot of damn nerve talking about government "of the people, for the people, and by the people.

His war cost the lives of 600,000 of "the people" and made those who survived it subservient to the Federal Government.

Yeah, but his heart was in the right place.

actually she was perfectly correct on this point.....the libs have to lie and make up stuff to promote their "Sarah is dumb" myth


It was gaffe-mouth Biden who blew it.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/10/021896.php

that's kind of what I figured

I answered 24 out of 33 correctly � 72.73%. At least I got a higher score than other college educators (55%). However, I must admit that economics puts me right to sleep... and I am woefully ignorant about it. I probably shouldn't be, but I am. I figure that Barak knows enough for the both of us.

Penny

84.85% and not real happy with that. I can't imagine over 70% failed it.

I knew that one because once upon a time I had to memorize the Gettysburg Address for one of my classes in school. We never had to memorize the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

Penny

I got 85.89% I agree that many of the answers are based on opinion

Of course he can. He just has to call it something else, like a police action.


It's pretty widely accepted among economists that in a recession, you cut taxes and increase public spending to stimulate the economy. Yeah, you do end up with a wad of debt. But public debt doesn't actually quite work like personal debt.

Well, to be fair, the test asked what a government would probably do, not what it should do.

Given the choice between Keynesian and Austrian economics, a State will always choose Keynes, since Austrian economics gives it no role and therefore no power. Keynes, on the other hand, says that whenever there's trouble the government should usurp more power to cure the trouble--which of course causes more trouble, justifying usurpation of more power, which...etc.

Heck, if I were a politician I'd be Keynesian too.

That's true.

Personal debt is a promise to work; public debt is a promise to steal.

That's (one reason) why I buy silver instead of Treasuries.

How much interest has your silver accrued laying under the crawlspace?

He'd have to figure that out... but one silver eagle has gone up about $2.00 in a week...

Penny

Got 32 of 33. Misread one. I am a history teacher, so I had an edge.

Leon

Hate to pick nits, but that isn't interest Penny. And how long have the silver Eagles laid around in order to go up in value? Silver and Gold are a lot like horses. They just don't do much in most cases anymore, but they still eat. BTW, let's say you paid $10 per coin for those Eagles. They were 10% above SPOT when you bought them and to sell them you have to usually take 10% below. What does that leave you with if they are $2 higher than they were when you bought them?

Further, lets say you had those coins for two years. At 5% interest, you could have gotten $1 for your cash in a CD. You actually lost $1 rather than gaining anything unless I'm mistaken. I figured it all in my head and rather quickly so somebody is welcome to set me straight here. There is simply no money to be had for the average joe the plumber in the silver/gold game.

The reason to have them has nothing to do with interest. It has everything to do with no counterparty performance obligations. Even though the silver draws no interest, it can never be worth nothing, unlike paper "assets". That's the reason that people have valued silver and gold for 5000 years, including our Founders.

One of these days, and probably sooner rather than later, you might go to your bank and find that all of those interest bearing accounts have mysteriously disappeared, or have become worthless. They depend upon the bank, or the government to make them perform, either of which is subject to default. That is the difference between paper which draws interest, and hard currencies such as silver and gold, that are supposedly "bad" investments because they don't.

I've been into silver and gold for a long time now. The thought that people want to have some around for the reasons you state is completely understandable and I think, a good idea. I don't deceive myself into thinking I'm going to make money on it though, because it's tough. I actually have made money on it and I know how difficult it is to do. For the average person it takes huge swings in the market and relatively quickly or it isn't worth it due to the amount you could have made on interest.

Holding precious metals as a hedge or safety net of some sort is a whole different deal than buying and selling them for profit. The latter is extremely difficult and not for non-professionals.

If the US government ceases to function such that FDIC insured bank accounts "disappear".....the most valuable commodities will be guns, ammo, food and fuel....or the will and ability to take those things.


Krugerrands don't have much value when showing them will get you killed for them.

The reason gold or silver is valuable is because people assign values to them. Fewer and fewer average people know how to value precious metals and the only time they will ever be worth much in times of crisis are in the most prolonged and chaotic of environments. Otherwise cash, guns, ammo, food, gas, etc. will take precedence.

The accounts might not disappear in the conventional sense, but the money, or scrip that you're given may make it effectively so. You stick with your paper, I'll stick with my gold/silver. I have a feeling over the next few years we'll find out which is better.

Well Mike, silver is up .46 today. It's only down .02 from what it was a week ago and only about $5 an ounce cheaper than it was a year ago...

Seriously, not trying to dog you. I think holding some is a good idea. I'm just not enamored of silver and gold as a total economic plan.

If I want interest, there are better places to get it than Treasuries--places where I don't have to depend on somebody carrying out a promise to commit a crime on my behalf.

What silver and gold do best is not increase in value--they haven't significantly gained or lost value in terms of purchasing power for hundreds of years--but hold value. That's better than what fiat money does.

That comports with my thinking and preparation.

Barak, are all anarchists drama queens?

Just read TEAM of RIVALS; it helped: 95%

Treasuries were what you were talking about. Why would I want to mention where to get the best interest with your money when you were doing a comparison of treasuries vs. gold?



I know what you're saying but I still think it's funny.

Okay, now that all that is out of the way, where am I wrong?

You answered 24 out of 33 correctly � 72.73 %

I wasn't as good as I thought I was.

There's one way to find out...

You mean the one mentioned here?

I give up: where?

Thanx Bristoe.

"Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas"

Bit me in the arse, but they aren't American anyway.

How's the Dow and the S&P holding up? Some of the components of both are trading at near zero, and will be delisted if they don't turnaround. If the Fed and the Treasury continue with the unlimited credit/money creation, I expect that the US dollar will be taking a major hit in the near future too. I think more people than you realize value gold and silver; if they didn't, jewelry would not be popular, and I'd be able to find more coins at the coin shop.

Gold and silver may be the only savings plan that will hold it's value through time; that's what they are supposed to do, and so far it's working admirably.

As to the other commodities mentioned, guns, ammo, foodand water, do you not think that we who stockpile PM's don't do that with other things too? They don't draw interest either, but sure make life more secure.

I don't know. I thought you'd tell me. Look at the Bible and see what it says about just sitting on your money.

Once again, having some gold and silver set aside is a good idea. It's fun, it's good for kids to see and have passed down to them, it's good as a hedge against a total collapse and probably some other things. Putting all or even a significant portion of your wealth into precious metals and sitting on them is just not a good idea and that's what some of the posts implied or else I wouldn't be talking.

The throwback to your flaming days was cute though. Good deflection...and there of course, is no legal requirement for you to answer me.

Don't know that much about it. Only what I read and it doesn't look too good. Lots of down and a little up. Lots of jagged edges. People can make a lot of money in such situations. I am not one to try. I am neither connected nor an expert on stocks. I don't think you've seen me on here touting myself as such either.



I'm no expert, but with oil down and the market down, the dollar has been up, if only slightly. Too many people hear only the gloom and doom of the news media. Too few look for silver linings.



I have no hard stats, only observations derived from hard knocks. And if I can help some hard heads with them, then it's all good. Bling is always popular. Do you really think you're going to barter with those who wear lots of it? As for most kids knowing what silver and gold are and having any idea of the value...I think it's safe to say that coin collecting was a much bigger hobby when you and I were youngsters. Don't you think?



If all you want out of your money is for it to hold its value, I think silver and gold are a good bet for you. OTOH if you want to accrue some wealth to supplement your social security, they simply don't pay interest. End of story. If you think you are smart enough to beat the professionals at investing in precious metals, go for it. I am offering advice again, based on years of experience playing the game at a lower level. Take it or leave it as is your wont.



I don't know. That's the thing. If you've already got all that stuff, plus are set for retirement, then you are wealthy and dang sure don't need my advice.

I'm not sure what you mean. Why do you think you're wrong about something? Why do you think I would know what you're wrong about?

Oh--and I'm not exactly sitting on it. Did you see the "A Tale of Two Silver American Eagles" thread?

The waiters and waitresses who have been buying silver from me in lieu of dollars seem to understand the value, and they've been young people so far. I'll let you know what happens when I find an older one to try.

It's really kind of a cool experiment. You ought to try it yourself at some point: might restore your faith in the younger generation, or something.

You answered 29 out of 33 correctly � 87.88 %

Average score for this quiz during November: 77.7%
Average score: 77.7%

Not bad for a public high school graduate. Maybe I should have gone to college.

Barak, I like you and I like reading your stuff, in moderation. But when it comes to a debate, you'd rather play games than actually engage in meaningful dialog. As long as you are relating your own viewpoint, you do fine, as most of us do. But when backed into a corner, instead of just conceding, you revert to your gaming techniques.

I'm well-versed in the Bible and if anything, my guess is that you are more so. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Yes, I read your "tale of two Eagles" thread, or part of it. I thought about weighing in but decided to let you have your fun. A Great Uncle of mine sat on a hoard of Morgans for years and finally started giving them away to waiters and waitresses as tips. He told me years later, "I thought it was cute." That's about what I've got to say about your experiment.

Silver has nearly been relisted as a semi-precious metal many times-because it is. There are still active silver mines and it isn't uncommon. There may be fewer coins minted nowadays, but that is a separate, though related, issue. Its main usage industrially, was for photographic film...get it? Gold is a different story but everything I said still applies.

Again, please tell me where I am wrong in anything I have said and we can have a real discussion. I in no way apply that I am wrong or that I think I am wrong in anything I said, the implication is quite the opposite. Your posts imply that you think there is something wrong in what I said. Simply say what you think it is and we can discuss...

See? I told you that economics isn't my thing!

Penny

That's exactly why Barak bought silver... not looking to make "interest" on it.

I'm a philatelist, not a numismatist. I began seriously collecting postal history back in the 1970s. I'm not sure how to calculate the value of my collection vs. the interest I might have made if I had put the money into a CD... but I do know that what I bought for $15 back in the mid-70s now is selling for $350. Part of that is inflation, of course.

I have learned a lot from collecting postal history, and enjoy the heck out of it. The money I have spent on it I consider gone... in the same way that money I spend to see a good movie is gone. But the fact that, if I were to decide to sell my collection, I could get good money for it is like the frosting on a cake.

Penny

I've got a small stamp collection from when I was a Boy Scout and had to collect something for a merit badge or some such. My Mom has a big stamp collection of old stamps. I know nothing about them.

Steve's to smart for that!

I don't know Goodwin's political leanings or agendas nor DiLorenza's and frankly didn't think Goodwin was lavishing praise on Lincoln. DiLorenzo's comments on TEAM seem to be a bit hyperbolic.

Anyway, I found life in those times more interesting than the politics which obviously is the real centerpiece of the book.

EE,


I understand your reasoning on the whole interest gig.


with that said, you got any leafs or liberty's you wanna get rid of so you can put $$$ in the bank and draw interest?

I'll be in your neck of the woods in the next month or two and wouldn't mind picking up a few pieces if you have any you want to dispose of.

lol Nope, what I've got, I'm keeping. I'm a longtime collector and as I've said repeatedly, it's good to have some. Just don't count on it to make you money.

I actually got rid of some when it was near its peak-lucked out and what I've got left now that I possibly should have parted with, is silver. Silver is down over $7 from what I got out of mine. I don't consider myself a pro-but I don't think I'm being arrogant when I say that I'm close. The knowledge I've tried to impart here is hard-won. I haven't bought any for a long time now. I'm a buyer on silver below $6 and gold at $400 or less. I seldom fool with anything but US antique coins, though I've bought and sold it all.

I've got a lot invested with CITI right now...

I got 31 out of 33. I agree that there is bias in some of the answers, but I guess over the years I have sort of learned to pick the expected answer. One that I missed I still do not completely understand, and I feel that the other is poorly worded. Interesting activity - thanks.

I got 32 out of 33 for a 96.97%...Hey, maybe I should run for office.

I missed the question about what Socrates, Plato, Aristotle said (I'm admittedly rather ignorant of philosophers.)

Couldn't stand the background check....all they'd have to do is scroll back through some posts here and I'd be dead.

the time to dump Citi will be about mid-afternoon, I'd guess. Up 62% for the day.

It was a joke. I've got two CITI credit cards. heheheh ~cough~

Scored 97%. Missed one on the exam.

http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx

96.97 32/33 Missed number ten

Honestly, I'm not gaming you: I seriously have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know why you have to be wrong, or what about. I don't mind spending a little more effort trying to understand what your issue is, because I think for the most part you're a decent guy. But if it doesn't come clear in a few more exchanges, I'll withdraw and leave you in command of the field.

Barak,

He may not have the official poower, but the present president certainly has done a good job of waring. Well, I disagree with myself. He is waring,but doing a terible job.

Preach it, brother.