I spend most of my life in trouble so what the heck, I will answer. When I carried I carried a Ruger security-six so there was always one in the chamber, so to speak. If/when I quit driving truck and can carry again it will be a 1911 so yes once again, cocked and locked is the only way to go. Not carrying on in the chamber when carrying concealed is in my opinion dumber than a box of rocks.
OK, my neck is out, bring down the ax and let's get it on!
I spend most of my life in trouble so what the heck, I will answer. When I carried I carried a Ruger security-six so there was always one in the chamber, so to speak. If/when I quit driving truck and can carry again it will be a 1911 so yes once again, cocked and locked is the only way to go. Not carrying on in the chamber when carrying concealed is in my opinion dumber than a box of rocks.
OK, my neck is out, bring down the ax and let's get it on!
Scott, I guess I would be on the chopping block also, as I carry hot with any CCW weapon.
I'm partial to revolvers, however the LCP is locked and loaded. Used to carry a P-93DC with one in the spout. I do like a pistol w/o a safety. When hunting, loaded safety on. I don't have a hunting long arm that doesn't have a safety.
For all you hotties how many have had premature or accidental discharge?
Carrying for over 30 years and never. But you can carry cold and when you need it and pull it out to load it the other guy will double tap you before you can say sheet.
When I hunt, I run hot. Except when I'm walking to a deer stand in the dark.
I don't carry any weapons on me otherwise but I'm sure I would carry hot as well. Revolver on empty chamber, auto with one in chamber and hammer down...don't really trust it with the hammer back.
When I carry I carry a SIG, loaded chamber, hammer down or a Glock 19, one in the pipe.
I never could get it through my head to carry a 1911, cocked and locked and pointed down my leg...There just ain't enuff parts in there to keep that hammer cocked for me
Don't jump in my schit cause I do understand that most agree that is the safest way to carry a 1911.
In a hunting situation where and when game could appear at any instant, my rifle has a loaded chamber. I hunt alone.
When I hunt upland game or water fowl, there again, my shotgun has a loaded chamber. Anyone ever quail hunted with an unloaded shotgun?
For all you hotties how many have had premature or accidental discharge?
Never. Although it's early. I did, as a youth, pop off a round I did not intend to. Target shooting with a S&W .357. Island off of Hatteras. Last round. I put it in the cylinder, closed the cylinder and decided I needed to advance the cylinder five times to bring the round under the hammer. Wrong. Pointed the pistol down at the sand and bang. Made me think. Nobody got hurt and nobody saw it but me. Wish I had put my ear muffs on.
I had the pleasure to do so in the mid 1980's and they all carried on an empty chamber and racked the slide back as part of the draw.
For those that think is method is slow, you would be surprised if you saw them do it..The only disadvantage I could see was if your weak arm had been dissabled, or you were drawing a pistol in a confined space...
I just never understood the concept of having a gun that wasn't ready to shoot and ready to shoot as many times as was necessary or as many times as it could shoot, which ever came first.
"I know what you're thinking � "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But, being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?"
I never could get it through my head to carry a 1911, cocked and locked and pointed down my leg...There just ain't enuff parts in there to keep that hammer cocked for me
Agreed. Hammer back and slide safety on. Not nearly enough for me either. No argument here.
Same as Scott with the 1911, the Colt Pocket model .32 & vest pocket .25 the rest don't have safeties anyway but there is one in the pipe. SAA five in the cylinder and the hammer on the empty, same with the C&B revolvers. The Colt & S&W are full up.
Neck extended all the way. (I have almost no neck!)
A carry pistol or revolver with an empty chamber can get you killed. Most of my CC is with a Colt Commander. It is always loaded, hammer back, one up the spout. Cocked and locked. If I am carrying the BHP, its the same drill. DA semi autos are carried according to the manual of arms for that particular pistol, but regardless it has one in the chamber.
Carry revolvers, both SA and DA are carried with the all the cylinders full.
There is the story of the old Border Patrol officer who went to a class on firearms training. He walked into the class with a 1911 cocked and ready. When the young instructor asked if that wasn't dangerous he replied "Son, if it wasn't dangerous then why in the flying hell would I carry it?"
Don't know if it is true or just a story but I like it either way. 1911 was designed to be carried in the ready-to-go-to-work mode.
well, we already did the nice thread, and mean thread, the apology threads and the mea culpa threads. We did the Dear Abbey threads, the sports threads, and the muslim threads. We covered the gamut of political fact and fiction.
Might as well do a 'lets all be nice' thread, pop a cold one, and count the bodies. I think you are right Shreck, it would be a cluster "F" within a page.
Been thinking of getting a trebuche but they haven't made anything tacticool enough yet. I need it in black and with a rail to carry a light.
Had one for a while, would throw a bowling ball a couple of hundred yards. Was fun but hard to carry with the 1,200 pounds of led in the heavy end. And if it ever went off while carrying... it would have been real ugly.
Instead, I carry a Lee Loader with me. When a Bad Guy challenges me, I politely ask him (or her) for a moment to collect myself. (People respond so well to courtesy, its a lost art, ya' know)
Then, I stick a new cartridge case into the loader, pour some blue dot from a pre-measured baggie into the case, seat a bullet, load it in my T/C Contender, holster it and tell that bad guy (or girl) I am ready.
Instead, I carry a Lee Loader with me. When a Bad Guy challenges me, I politely ask him (or her) for a moment to collect myself. (People respond so well to courtesy, its a lost art, ya' know)
Then, I stick a new cartridge case into the loader, pour some blue dot from a pre-measured baggie into the case, seat a bullet, load it in my T/C Contender, holster it and tell that bad guy (or girl) I am ready.
Instead, I carry a Lee Loader with me. When a Bad Guy challenges me, I politely ask him (or her) for a moment to collect myself. (People respond so well to courtesy, its a lost art, ya' know)
Then, I stick a new cartridge case into the loader, pour some blue dot from a pre-measured baggie into the case, seat a bullet, load it in my T/C Contender, holster it and tell that bad guy (or girl) I am ready.
Anything less, would not be safe, or fair.
BMT
You forgot to put blue tape on it.
I don't want to scare the deer, just the bad guys (or girls). Though they might like blue, I would use that as a talking point! You know, a little conversation goes a long way.
Instead, I carry a Lee Loader with me. When a Bad Guy challenges me, I politely ask him (or her) for a moment to collect myself. (People respond so well to courtesy, its a lost art, ya' know)
Then, I stick a new cartridge case into the loader, pour some blue dot from a pre-measured baggie into the case, seat a bullet, load it in my T/C Contender, holster it and tell that bad guy (or girl) I am ready.
Anything less, would not be safe, or fair.
BMT
You forgot to put blue tape on it.
I don't want to scare the deer, just the bad guys (or girls). Though they might like blue, I would use that as a talking point! You know, a little conversation goes a long way.
I had the pleasure to do so in the mid 1980's and they all carried on an empty chamber and racked the slide back as part of the draw.
For those that think is method is slow, you would be surprised if you saw them do it..The only disadvantage I could see was if your weak arm had been dissabled, or you were drawing a pistol in a confined space...
Pete,
I think you make a very good point in that regard. I've always thought it wasn't too terribly difficult to rack the slide on the draw, if one chose to carry cold. However, if an assailant attacks you "up close" and somehow occupies your weak hand, you really just have an expensive club at your disposal.
have always thought that jewish folk were a very interesting part of the thread that winds us all up to be human. always liked their views on self protection, or more normally, survival in their case. am sad, actually, that they HAVE to be that way. or else.
i go hot wherever. had my brother's best friend, who was a deputy at the time, tell me once... "when the schite goes down, you ain't got a second to do nuthin' with that rod, lemme tell you..."
and when a milam county boy tells me that, i'm runnin' hot. he's been there or he wouldn't bark.
and i don't carry if i've been drinkin'. got some self respect, and enough to share. ain't carryin' tonight.
need to hop over the pond sometime and buy you a drink pete. what're you doin' 'bout mid-spring? another tour of duty?
Been thinking of getting a trebuche but they haven't made anything tacticool enough yet. I need it in black and with a rail to carry a light.
I heard next year a company will be offering one that can be mounted to an AR15 lower. Should be all the rage, and very tacticool with a monolithic rail and Aimpoint or EOTech.
Been thinking of getting a trebuche but they haven't made anything tacticool enough yet. I need it in black and with a rail to carry a light.
Had one for a while, would throw a bowling ball a couple of hundred yards. Was fun but hard to carry with the 1,200 pounds of led in the heavy end. And if it ever went off while carrying... it would have been real ugly.
teal & ScottF; They ran a show on Discovery or something like that a few years back where they built one of those trebuchet gizmos big enough to either chuck a small car or a large appliance. I can�t recall which one they tossed but it did go a fair ways when they did.
I just remember thinking one of them would sure have impressed our old neighbor across the gully that kept knocking golf balls over into our horse pen.
Never heard of an aggressor carrying cold. Thinking best to at least start even. Statics reveal that most winners fire the first shot. Think I read that in someones obituary. GW
I think mine are always ready to fire with a pull of the trigger , both revolver and S.A. My memory works as good as ever , but my forgetter gets better all time .
Yeah , I loaded 'em all the way and I ain't been to jail so I probly ain't shot nobody so they ought to still be loaded .
Yeah , the little Smith titantium that stays on my belt all time - including while I'm typing this - has a round in each chamber .
I'm just hoping I remember I have a gun when the shooting starts !
I carry mine with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, safety on. I do have a leather strap that goes between the two that has a thumb release. a lot of 1911's are like that.
mines one of the little guys in 380, I sure like it
Hey JM, you guys gonna meet in the street at noon? Gonna bring my own bullet proof glass so I can watch too.
Oh!! that was mean,,,,,,,, I am so sorry. I love everyone, and everything is beautiful in it;s own way. If we would all just treat one another like we should guns would not be needed. Be nice people!
I carry mine with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, safety on. I do have a leather strap that goes between the two that has a thumb release. a lot of 1911's are like that.
mines one of the little guys in 380, I sure like it
The vision of some one walking... no make that limping down the street with his pants smoldering and trying to look like nothing is wrong just cracked me up. Made a good day better. I owe you one my friend.
The reason I ask is that on another forum here, there was a poll about carrying hot while hunting.
Some believed it unsafe, some thought it was fine.
Just wondering what everyone's take would be concerning carrying a weapon on their person.
JM
I do not know of any competent concealed carry or self-defense course, firearms training center, police academy or reality based training doctrine that teaches carrying with an empty chamber. doing so defeats the purpose.
"On February 20, 1994, in Massachusetts, Donald Graham a 54-year-old bookkeeper [and church deacon] became embroiled in a heated, on-going traffic dispute with Michael Blodgett, [age] 42. After the motorists antagonized each other for several miles on ... Interstate [95], they both pulled over to an access road and got out of their vehicles. At that point Graham retrieved a powerful crossbow from his trunk and murdered Blodgett with a razor-sharp 20-inch arrow. "
boating accident, was transporting all of my guns, boat capsized, lost them all. when I gets me some obama money, instead of a job(much easier), I'll have my homey get me one, but I'll be safe, and carry it with an empty chamber. Tim
The reason I ask is that on another forum here, there was a poll about carrying hot while hunting.
Some believed it unsafe, some thought it was fine.
Just wondering what everyone's take would be concerning carrying a weapon on their person.
JM
I always carry (CC or OC) with one in the pipe ! Same thing while hunting.
I hope you don't shoot your foot off young man.
Why would you be pointing the muzzle at your foot? Isn't a major rule in firearms is muzzle direction? In most of TAX HELL WISCONSIN, you ain't got time to jack one into the chamber when a deer appears.. Shots are close - many times under 100 yards.. You work a bolt in that distance that deer will be at 45 mph before you can reach the trigger..
Yep always, one in the pipe cocked and locked 1911. Why would you carry a concealed weapon without it being loaded? Maybe you should just carry a pocket full of cash and just buy your way out of the situation or start crying and say please don't hurt me. If you are afraid of your pistol then you don't need to carry one. I have never heard of a cocked and locked 1911 going off without help from the operator.
Yes, and just like anything else, the more you do it, the greater the odds of having an accident. That's why the rules (don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot)are so important.
The reason I ask is that on another forum here, there was a poll about carrying hot while hunting.
Some believed it unsafe, some thought it was fine.
Just wondering what everyone's take would be concerning carrying a weapon on their person.
JM
Of course. If it's an auto-pistol, there's one in the chamber, and if it's a revolver, a loaded chamber is under the hammer. I guess, though, that if you're hunting with others they would not appreciate the possibility of being "swept" with the muzzle of your rifle if it's got one in the chamber, especially if it's cocked. A sidearm is typically secured in a holster until the moment you need to use it. That's the difference.
It ain't a "SEE I got a gun and I hope I scare you away" sort of deal.......
I like the way you put that.
I've been preaching that same thing to would be gun toters for some time. You don't carry a gun to use it as a scare tactic. It is a tool to be used when the time for self defense has arrived.
Yep always, one in the pipe cocked and locked 1911. Why would you carry a concealed weapon without it being loaded? Maybe you should just carry a pocket full of cash and just buy your way out of the situation or start crying and say please don't hurt me. If you are afraid of your pistol then you don't need to carry one. I have never heard of a cocked and locked 1911 going off without help from the operator.
Yep, I'm afraid.
Probably have only fired 40,000 - 50,000 rounds or so out of revolvers.
The reason I ask is that on another forum here, there was a poll about carrying hot while hunting.
Some believed it unsafe, some thought it was fine.
Just wondering what everyone's take would be concerning carrying a weapon on their person.
JM
I always carry (CC or OC) with one in the pipe ! Same thing while hunting.
I hope you don't shoot your foot off young man.
Man? Not me!! I'm of the female variety, actually
Nope, I haven't and won't. My brain is my "safety" and safety is key! Thats why I never point any weapon, hunting or otherwise, at anything I aint willin to shoot. And my foot SURE aint somethin I'm willin to shoot
It was I who asked that question of those who carry in that old endless thread Mr Moses. I never even received a satisfactory answer to that question at all. Just some blather about deer and humans or some such. The Colt Mustang is carried cold because it's small.in my pocket and i have no intention of gut shooting myself or loosing my manhood by accident.
Had a Nebraska State cop ask me if my conceled pistol was loaded after he gave me a speeding ticket. Answer was. What good would it do me to have it unloaded. Got a frown in return.
Had a Nebraska State cop ask me if my conceled pistol was loaded after he gave me a speeding ticket. Answer was. What good would it do me to have it unloaded. Got a frown in return.
This topic has been hashed out before on the Handguns forum, so I might as well allow y'all to try and save me here too.
Hehehehe.. TOO LATE!!
Quote
My name is JOG, and I carry chamber-empty fairly often.
'fairly often'? But not always? Hot or cold may very well be determined by the make/model of the aforesaid carry piece..
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Sometimes the 'threat level' just isn't there, but the handgun is.
I'm betting if you perchance, happen to toodley-ooo down a few streets in N. Murderapolis - not only will the piece be 'hot', but you may also have a rather firm grip on the handle at 'ready', and 2-3 full magazines layin' right handy at your side...
85% of MN is fine - it's that 15% or so that happen to occupy the seven-county metro area that make for a lively sale of CCW permits for visitors or honest residents.. (A similar comparison = Milwaukee and surrounds).
I'ts a meaningless queation when applied to revolvers. Carried on an empty chamber, the next on up is the one to be condcerned about. Does anyone expect that one to be empty as well?
Cocked and locked scares the hell outta me in a 1911. There are too many ways for both the grip and slide safety to disengage When I carry a 1911 clone I carry it loaded hammer down. Most times I carry a Sig P245 that I'm convinced wil not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I then have a choice of drawing and cocking or just drawing and pulling.
I think you make a very good point in that regard. I've always thought it wasn't too terribly difficult to rack the slide on the draw, if one chose to carry cold. However, if an assailant attacks you "up close" and somehow occupies your weak hand, you really just have an expensive club at your disposal.
Scorpion,
I did a quick search on Youtube and came up with these which demonstrates what they were doing. I'm not sure quite why they do it this way, but given their circumstances, i would assume they have a very good reason.
Incidently one of the things I remember being taught was that its the "decision" that generally take the time and when that "decision" changes into "hesitation", that when your in trouble..
The reason I ask is that on another forum here, there was a poll about carrying hot while hunting.
Some believed it unsafe, some thought it was fine.
Just wondering what everyone's take would be concerning carrying a weapon on their person.
JM
I always carry (CC or OC) with one in the pipe ! Same thing while hunting.
I hope you don't shoot your foot off young man.
Man? Not me!! I'm of the female variety, actually
Nope, I haven't and won't. My brain is my "safety" and safety is key! Thats why I never point any weapon, hunting or otherwise, at anything I aint willin to shoot. And my foot SURE aint somethin I'm willin to shoot
In a life or death situation simple is best racking the slide is adding complication, not simplicity. Suppose your weak arm is in the grasp of your advessary, or it has been injure that would make racking the slide impossiable. Nope load it if you are going to use it to protect your life or the life of others
I always hunt with one in the pipe unless im climbing or crossing a fence or something of that nature but i carry a Glock in my truck and sometimes on my person rarely do i have one in the pipe. If I thought I was going to be in a situation where i needed it I would put one in like going anywhere in the city limits of Birmingham,AL
I always hunt with one in the pipe unless im climbing or crossing a fence or something of that nature but i carry a Glock in my truck and sometimes on my person rarely do i have one in the pipe. If I thought I was going to be in a situation where i needed it I would put one in like going anywhere in the city limits of Birmingham,AL
If I thought I was going to need one I'd find someplace else to be. Loaded is for the unexpected that comes out of nowhere and only gives time to react if we are ready.
I wouldn't carry a Glock in my truck loaded either. That little toggle in the trigger is not a safety IMHO. I know a police officer that got shot with a loaded glock that was in his glove box, when a pencil found its way into the trigger guard. A Glock needs a holster the covers the trigger guard completely. Now a 1911 I'll carry fully loaded cocked and locked, and if that fails I still have the grip safety
I deleted my answer after noting the topic was "Carry." It's in the vehicle with a mag in the 92 to be racked if I need it. I've had my own gun pointed at me before by a hysterical person, so I'm not into "in the chamber anymore." Long story.
I always hunt with one in the pipe unless im climbing or crossing a fence or something of that nature but i carry a Glock in my truck and sometimes on my person rarely do i have one in the pipe. If I thought I was going to be in a situation where i needed it I would put one in like going anywhere in the city limits of Birmingham,AL
If I thought I was going to need one I'd find someplace else to be. Loaded is for the unexpected that comes out of nowhere and only gives time to react if we are ready.
I have only had a CCW for a few months. I have several pistols and my carry is a Kimber Classic. I do not carry a round in the chamber because I have not become familiar enough with this weapon to fell it is an extension of myself. I hope that make sense. I have a Beretta double action that fits in a pocket and have no problem carring it with a round in the chamber. I carry my hunting rifles hot when I am in the woods. Ken
I'm not bulletproof. I am biodegradeable. As fast as I may be, the chances that I'm that one guy that is the fastest, well, they aren't really that high. I always carry with a round chambered.
I always hunt with one in the pipe unless im climbing or crossing a fence or something of that nature but i carry a Glock in my truck and sometimes on my person rarely do i have one in the pipe. If I thought I was going to be in a situation where i needed it I would put one in like going anywhere in the city limits of Birmingham,AL
I wouldn't carry a Glock in my truck loaded either. That little toggle in the trigger is not a safety IMHO. I know a police officer that got shot with a loaded glock that was in his glove box, when a pencil found its way into the trigger guard. A Glock needs a holster the covers the trigger guard completely. Now a 1911 I'll carry fully loaded cocked and locked, and if that fails I still have the grip safety
Good point. I neglected to notice he was talking about a Glock, and all that implies. I have no qualms about leaving a fully loaded (one up the pipe) cocked and locked 1911 in my glove compartment either, which I do frequently in fact. Same with a revolver. But a Glock has no real safety (the safety on a Glock makes about as much sense as engraving the combination to your safe on the front of its dial). Any sudden shift due to momentum, and that trigger could catch on something and fire off a round.
I"ve read most all this post. My take on it, carry it everywhere you legally can, concerned or not, IE threat level low or high. And carry it loaded.
I've done a fair amount of thinking and there could be times one would want to discreetly get their hands on their weapon and out of its holster but not announce it to the world, yet have it INSTANTLY ready to go, IE maybe even safety off and aimed in a situation, at that point, trying to chamber a round would suck and could get one killed. Drawing MORE attention to oneself as armed is never a good thing IMHO.
The same can go for a deer rifle or lets say firearm when hunting, simply getting a round in the chamber can cost you an animal. Of course they mostly have never shot back and a lost animal is nothing. Though I never got a round into a 300 once on a 19 point muley buck... my fault and I still think about that to this day, but then again no one is the worse for wear like you could be in an armed confrontation
I"ve read most all this post. My take on it, carry it everywhere you legally can, concerned or not, IE threat level low or high. And carry it loaded.
I've done a fair amount of thinking and there could be times one would want to discreetly get their hands on their weapon and out of its holster but not announce it to the world, yet have it INSTANTLY ready to go, IE maybe even safety off and aimed in a situation, at that point, trying to chamber a round would suck and could get one killed. Drawing MORE attention to oneself as armed is never a good thing IMHO.
Two fundemental differences in carrying a handgun and toting a rifle: first, a handgun is not generally carried in the hand, it's in a holster. And second, a handgun is for self-defense, where the odds against having time to chamber a round are greater.
I'm not much of a hunter any more, used to be and carried a lever action rifle with the hammer at half-cock, one in the chamber. That was before cross-bolt safeties in lever guns. My 300 Savage is cocked and locked. I also have hunted with a 788, that one had the chamber empty. This was hunting from a stand, and the possibility of missing a deer had to be weighed against the remote possibility of shooting myself in the woods. I don't have a strong opinion of how others should carry, since I've done it both ways. If it feels right, just do it.
And, my carry guns (Kahr and Glock) lack a traditional safety! Gasp!
This'll be good for a couple more pages... grin... I FAR prefer, in terms of safe carry, a "no-safety" Kahr or Glock to a 1911, and yeah I've owned and carried both.
And, my carry guns (Kahr and Glock) lack a traditional safety! Gasp!
This'll be good for a couple more pages... grin... I FAR prefer, in terms of safe carry, a "no-safety" Kahr or Glock to a 1911, and yeah I've owned and carried both.
I have one in the chamber whether carrying concealed or openly. My revolvers are all safe with one under the hammer, the 1911 and clones are cocked and locked (as is the Browning), and the Glock is what it is (with one in the chamber).
I used to carry a Browning M2 in my back pocket, which works better than you'd think. Had a round under the feed cover but worked the charging handle only once, so it took another pull to fully load it.
However, the way I had to store the ammo belt and feed it was, uncomfortable.
And, my carry guns (Kahr and Glock) lack a traditional safety! Gasp!
This'll be good for a couple more pages... grin... I FAR prefer, in terms of safe carry, a "no-safety" Kahr or Glock to a 1911, and yeah I've owned and carried both.
Yes I do. I think if you need to pull a concealed pistol there is a good chance it will be needed quickly. I am sure many others have said this too, but I was too lazy to ready up the 19 pages..lol
I used to carry a Browning M2 in my back pocket, which works better than you'd think. Had a round under the feed cover but worked the charging handle only once, so it took another pull to fully load it.
However, the way I had to store the ammo belt and feed it was, uncomfortable.
You might be onto something there,
The Matchlock "Carry problems" are getting really old.
.....waiting in line at the grocery, and the Manager comes up, "I'm sorry , Sir, no smoking in the store>"
very silly topic, and I will not read the 19 pages either. Its your life and your parachute, do what you want to do, me I choose to be a good boy scout and be prepared.
My limitation is NOT to walk around with a fully cocked hammer back weapon. Loaded yes--Cocked NO. I will remove myself from wherever that is required.
I also consider those around me who have even the briefest of access to what might reside in my property. I'd shoot myself were one of the young ones to pick up a fully cocked 1911 and boom. Don't get me wrong I am careful with all appliances but if something is always in that stateful stage then why make accidents easier to happen. If I have to have a 1911 in a cocked position to live then I am in the wrong place at the wrong time. Geezeee we're now posting like this is the wild west. JMO
I also consider those around me who have even the briefest of access to what might reside in my property. I'd shoot myself were one of the young ones to pick up a fully cocked 1911 and boom. Don't get me wrong I am careful with all appliances but if something is always in that stateful stage then why make accidents easier to happen. If I have to have a 1911 in a cocked position to live then I am in the wrong place at the wrong time. Geezeee we're now posting like this is the wild west. JMO
It's not an "wild West" scenario for carrying a pistol. Cocked and locked is the way you're taught to carry a 1911. That way, all the safties are working. It bears saying that any handgun has to have the trigger pulled before it goes off. If there are people around who would pick up a firearm (like a kid) then don't have the firearm in the same place as those people. The guy packing is always responsible for anyone handling or mishandling it, even if they do so without permission. It's a simple matter of firearm security.
When I carry, no one knows I've got a handgun, and therefore no one asks to handle it, which I wouldn't allow in any case. And it's in Condition One.
Of course, as you said earlier, it's your parachute. I think you said that, which is true.
I also consider those around me who have even the briefest of access to what might reside in my property. I'd shoot myself were one of the young ones to pick up a fully cocked 1911 and boom. Don't get me wrong I am careful with all appliances but if something is always in that stateful stage then why make accidents easier to happen. If I have to have a 1911 in a cocked position to live then I am in the wrong place at the wrong time. Geezeee we're now posting like this is the wild west. JMO
It isn't about the wild west. It's about consistency in training and methods to be able to respond to a threat the same way everytime without having to think about it. If you're accustomed to carrying chambered on some days and not on others, carrying different guns or carrying in a different position or manner from one day to the next, I can promise you that when the schitt hits the fan your little brain is going to spin and you'll be all sorts of yakked up.
There is a reason training doctrine has been developed and standardized by pioneers such as Jeff Cooper, Clint Smith, Mas Ayoob and others who've spent a good portion of their lives teaching others how to survive a lethal encounter.
I can read through this thread tell you who has been through at least a basic CC course and who is relying on what they've learned or think they've learned on their own.
Carrying for personal protection requires a complteley different mindset than carrying a handgun in the sporting fields, and the later isn't interchagable with the former.
If you have a handgun for personal protection it should be loaded and secured in a HOLSTER on your person. Not bouncing around in the console, in the glovebox or shoved up under the seat. If not on you then it needs to be in a secure container if there is the chance unauthorized persons or your rodents can get to it. Every modern handgun manufactured today is designed to be safely carried with a loaded chamber.
If you have a hangup about carrying hot, it's a training issue, not a safety issue.
What means half-cocked? Saw that somewhere back---
That term goes back to flint lock days. Half cocked is a safety position of the hammer in which the trigger cannot release it, halfway between fully cocked and fully forward.
My limitation is NOT to walk around with a fully cocked hammer back weapon. Loaded yes--Cocked NO. I will remove myself from wherever that is required.
You're only spooked by it because you can see it. On an M16, for example, the ready position is identical (cocked and locked), only you cannot see the fully cocked hammer, so it doesn't give you the spooks. Just get over it. Cocked and locked is the proper state for a 1911 that you intend to use if it should be suddenly needed to save your life or the life of a loved one, just like for an M16.
Carrying for personal protection requires a complteley different mindset than carrying a handgun in the sporting fields, and the later isn't interchagable with the former.
That's where your post seems contradictory. Kind of like saying, 'Carry hot at all times except for when you don't need to.'
My first reply on this thread was, "Sometimes the threat level isn't there, but the handgun is."
And why would you not have one in the chamber, unless you just wanted to use the gun as a rock?
There have been plenty of times when I needed a rock a lot more than I needed a handgun. Fortunately a rock has always been available.
Maybe I'm carrying cold in a situation where another guy doesn't think it's necessary to carry a handgun at all. My day can start in one set of circumstances and end in another, and the handgun might change status along the way. Second-guessing my "situational awareness" while I'm cutting a brush line or crawling under a car to fix a muffler is a little goofy.
Had a Nebraska State cop ask me if my conceled pistol was loaded after he gave me a speeding ticket. Answer was. What good would it do me to have it unloaded. Got a frown in return.
Carrying for personal protection requires a complteley different mindset than carrying a handgun in the sporting fields, and the later isn't interchagable with the former.
That's where your post seems contradictory. Kind of like saying, 'Carry hot at all times except for when you don't need to.'
My first reply on this thread was, "Sometimes the threat level isn't there, but the handgun is."
Perhaps I failed to communicate clearly what I was trying to say.
My point was that what most people know about carrying handguns and what they think they know about using them for self-defense is basically what they picked up in the sporting use of them and what they've read.
I can guarantee you that if you ever went through an actual defensive hangun training course, you would come away from it with a completely different attitude and philosophy about concealed carry and the condition you carry in than what you are stating here.
Always carried loaded fully with my model 10. Unless something breaks in the mechanism, the gun cannot discharge without the trigger being fully depressed. Graduated to a Sigarms P229 DAO. Funny thing -- same rules apply -- gotta pull the trigger fully to the rear to make it go. CZ75 -- same rules apply!
Simple thing is to keep yer dang finger off the trigger till you clear leather and come up on target, whether paper or flesh. Next simple thing is to train, train, train.
As far as racking the action single handed, train to do that as well. Hook the front sight on the edge of your holster or belt or the soul of your shoe. PUSH! Get the dang thing loaded and back into action, or yer gonna die, boy.
If staying alive means using a firearm, practice and training are essential -- as is the mindset to survive.
And why would you not have one in the chamber, unless you just wanted to use the gun as a rock?
I'm getting to this thread late, but with me the rule is, if something prevents my finger (or some other object) from getting into the trigger guard while I'm establishing my grip on the gun, then it's unchambered; otherwise, chambered.
My nightstand gun, for example, is not chambered, because it's not in a holster, and if I were to grab for it half-asleep in the dark I have no idea what part of it I'd grab first.
Similarly, the guns in my gun safe are not chambered, because their triggers are exposed. Wouldn't be good to reach in there to pull out one gun and accidentally touch another one off, especially since it's in the basement and they sit muzzle-up.
Anything that goes in one of my Milt Sparks Versa-Max II holsters will definitely be chambered. Shoulder holster? Chambered. Thigh holster? Chambered. Sitting in a Kydex holster screwed to the underside of a table or shelf? Chambered. Shoved in the back of my pants while I answer the door? Chambered. (Can't get to the trigger until after it's out of my pants, by which time I've already got a proper grip on it.)
Oh--and when I'm hunting, the gun is almost always unchambered, unless I'm expecting (or hoping for) a target before I put the gun down. Before I put it down or sling it, I unchamber it.
I know locked and cocked is standard for a 1911 but was wondering if it is just as safe to carry one with the hammer down and a round in the chamber? I can think of no reason it would be more dangerous than any other way of carrying with a loaded chamber.
I know locked and cocked is standard for a 1911 but was wondering if it is just as safe to carry one with the hammer down and a round in the chamber? I can think of no reason it would be more dangerous than any other way of carrying with a loaded chamber.
Dangerous. Every time you put it in that condition, you risk an accidental discharge. There is no decocking lever on a 1911.
I understand that lowering the hammer can cause a risk of an AD just as with revolvers or other semis without a decocker. Once the hammer has been lowered on the 1911 are there any safety problems carrying one with the hammer down with a chambered round? I would think it would be just as safe as locked and cocked because of the inertia firing pin.
There are no safe guns! When I was in the Army we were told to keep the chamber empty. It doesn't take long to chamber a round if you practice. whelennut
I understand that lowering the hammer can cause a risk of an AD just as with revolvers or other semis without a decocker. Once the hammer has been lowered on the 1911 are there any safety problems carrying one with the hammer down with a chambered round? I would think it would be just as safe as locked and cocked because of the inertia firing pin.
Double action revolvers never need to be manually cocked, and should never be other than at the range for certain kinds of target shooting, or for hunting and shooting in the great outdoors. There is no reason to routinely (manually) lower the hammer on a loaded chamber. Autos without decocking levers are not meant to be carried like that, and double action revolvers carried for self-defense need rarely if ever be manually cocked. Don't make a routine practice of it, is my advice. You're tempting fate.
OK, lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber can cause a discharge, I'm thinking if I lower one in an area where a discharge will cause miminal damage, and do not have a discharge, is it then safer to carry than cocked and locked? I can live with a discharge when the muzzle is pointed somewhere where no persons will be damaged.
OK, lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber can cause a discharge, I'm thinking if I lower one in an area where a discharge will cause miminal damage, and do not have a discharge, is it then safer to carry than cocked and locked? I can live with a discharge when the muzzle is pointed somewhere where no persons will be damaged.
Perhaps infinitesimally, but why develop bad habits?
Cocked and locked on a 1911 is every bit as safe (safer even) than carrying an M16 cocked and locked, and that's the standard mode of carry for both. When carrying a 1911 cocked and locked you have three factors preventing unintentional discharge. Firstly, the trigger must be depressed for it to fire, and the trigger guard provides substantial security against this so long as you do not intentionally place your finger in there. Secondly, the manual thumb safety must be disengaged for it to fire. Thirdly, the grip safety must be depressed for it to fire. All three things must happen simultaneously for it to fire. Hard to improve on that. You are more likely to be struck by a lightning bolt while watching the evening news in your living room than accidentally discharging a cocked and locked 1911.
Inderstand the M16 reference, but it hardly applies since darn few carry a '16 on a belt.
Yeah, but if it were possible to carry one on your belt do you think it would become less safe in the holster than it was while carrying it "port arms?"
Lets try this again. Is there any reason it would be any more dangerous than carrying a single action revolver with a transfer bar, a three screw converted Ruger Blackhawk, with the hammer down on a loaded chamber?
Lets try this again. Is there any reason it would be any more dangerous than carrying a single action revolver with a transfer bar, a three screw converted Ruger Blackhawk, with the hammer down on a loaded chamber?
Cocked and locked is as safe as it gets. Part of the reason single action revolvers were phased out was that double action revolvers were safer to carry in a ready position, and you never had to cock them so they were safer.
I like 1911's. But, not once but twice I took my Kimber out of the Galco fanny pack it was in, and the safety had come off somehow. Yeah, I know.. still the grip safety.. but that relativly light SA trigger gets a little spooky at that point...
I prefer a Glock or Kahr for a "combat" gun. Just a long, relatively stiff trigger pull and the gun goes bang. Don't see a problem there.
This is a religious issue, though. Guys get ALL horned up over 1911's in particular.
I like 1911's. But, not once but twice I took my Kimber out of the Galco fanny pack it was in, and the safety had come off somehow. Yeah, I know.. still the grip safety.. but that relativly light SA trigger gets a little spooky at that point...
I prefer a Glock or Kahr for a "combat" gun. Just a long, relatively stiff trigger pull and the gun goes bang. Don't see a problem there.
This is a religious issue, though. Guys get ALL horned up over 1911's in particular.
I like either 1911's or Glocks, have shot and packed both, but nowadays prefer the 'Drastic Plastic.'
OK, lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber can cause a discharge, I'm thinking if I lower one in an area where a discharge will cause miminal damage, and do not have a discharge, is it then safer to carry than cocked and locked? I can live with a discharge when the muzzle is pointed somewhere where no persons will be damaged.
Perhaps infinitesimally, but why develop bad habits?
Cocked and locked on a 1911 is every bit as safe (safer even) than carrying an M16 cocked and locked, and that's the standard mode of carry for both. When carrying a 1911 cocked and locked you have three factors preventing unintentional discharge. Firstly, the trigger must be depressed for it to fire, and the trigger guard provides substantial security against this so long as you do not intentionally place your finger in there. Secondly, the manual thumb safety must be disengaged for it to fire. Thirdly, the grip safety must be depressed for it to fire. All three things must happen simultaneously for it to fire. Hard to improve on that. You are more likely to be struck by a lightning bolt while watching the evening news in your living room than accidentally discharging a cocked and locked 1911.
I have to disagree. In theory, you are correct, but in practice, swiping the safety off an M-16 is much harder, either intentionally or unintentionally, than it is on most .45's. Especially this is true of .45's with oversized safeties.
Nobody wants to answer my question. I didn't think it was that difficult a question.
I, too, have had the safety on one of my 1911 pistols come off without my knowledge. I prefer not to have a cocked hammer over a live round because I have had 2 AD events caused by faulty safety devices. Neither was with a 1911. I know the hammer is not going to fall on an inertia firing pin if the hammer is already down. I have never had any problem lowering the hammer on any of my single action revolvers, double action revolvers, or semiauto pistols and always make sure I am not pointing the piece at anybody or anything I don't want to shoot while I am lowering the hammer and at all other times. I trust my behavior more than I trust some mechanical safety that can fail. I have been shooting single action revolvers since I was a small child and have no problem cocking a handgun as I get ready to shoot. I find it to be as easy as flipping off a safety.
So, once a round has been put in the chamber and the hammer lowered, is a Colt Series 80 1911 any more prone to AD than other handguns with an inertia firing pin?
I don't think you're going to get an answer, but when I carry a 1911 that's the way I do it. I almost always carry a Sig P245 so it doesn't matter much to me. My 1911 is my truck gun.
Nobody wants to answer my question. I didn't think it was that difficult a question.
I, too, have had the safety on one of my 1911 pistols come off without my knowledge. I prefer not to have a cocked hammer over a live round because I have had 2 AD events caused by faulty safety devices. Neither was with a 1911. I know the hammer is not going to fall on an inertia firing pin if the hammer is already down. I have never had any problem lowering the hammer on any of my single action revolvers, double action revolvers, or semiauto pistols and always make sure I am not pointing the piece at anybody or anything I don't want to shoot while I am lowering the hammer and at all other times. I trust my behavior more than I trust some mechanical safety that can fail. I have been shooting single action revolvers since I was a small child and have no problem cocking a handgun as I get ready to shoot. I find it to be as easy as flipping off a safety.
So, once a round has been put in the chamber and the hammer lowered, is a Colt Series 80 1911 any more prone to AD than other handguns with an inertia firing pin?
Series 80s have a fourth safety that locks the firing pin in place unless the trigger is pulled. I'd say no.
Thanks Tracks and Hawk. My everyday carry on the farm is a 629 S&W but I occasionally like to strap on a 1911. A 1911 is usually in my truck with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
Thanks Tracks and Hawk. My everyday carry on the farm is a 629 S&W but I occasionally like to strap on a 1911. A 1911 is usually in my truck with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.
I'd be nervous every time I had to lower that hammer on a live round. Even if pointed in a safe direction, I don't live on a farm so neighbors would likely call the cops if it went bang.
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