This is not a hypothetical question.

The parent of a school bully has threatened my eleven-year-old son.

There have been two incidents with this kid. My son was struck and jabbed with a pencil. He was sent to see the school nurse about the injuries. The nurse called us. My son did not fight back; he got away from the kid and reported it to the assistant principal. My wife and I addressed this with the school principal. The kid and his mother denied everything. The bully was not punished because he and his mother stood fast on their denial.

The principal told my wife and I that she was convinced they were lying. Her answer was to move that kid into another class away from my son and to warn the mother and her son that �if he so much as touched another student� he would be sent to an alternative placement campus. As you can guess, that had no effect and before they got around to moving the kid he threw a pencil at my son. The teacher saw it, addressed and reported it. The kid gets moved.

On Friday, this kids mother comes to school during lunch, seeks out my son in the school caffiteria, and threatens him. My son immediately reported it to the assistant principal who was on duty and present when this happened. When my wife and I spoke to her that afternoon she told us that the principal was going to handle this one and would be back on campus Tuesday.

Monday evening our son had to perform in a school concert. He did not want us to leave his sight because he was �afraid that lady might come up to me again�.

I saw the woman was at the concert so I stayed where my son could see me. After the concert I spoke to the woman. I introduced myself as the father of the little boy she had threatened and told her not to approach or speak to my son. She didn�t have a clue who I was before I told her. There were plenty of adults standing there while this was taking place. (The boy�s Father is deceased and there is no male in that household or I would have been talking to him instead of the mother.)

Her reaction was exactly what I expected, initial denial, and then admitting it and trying to justify her behavior. That was the reason I decided to speak to her in the presence of others. As I expected, she flew off the handle and became vulgar as we left.

I called the police to file a complaint. The officer came out and took our statements but told us nothing could be done other than file a report. We are pursuing action through the school system but I know that will not solve the problem.

Now don�t misunderstand guys, I know exactly what has to be done to handle a bully. My son is capable of putting this kid down when the time comes for that. I will protect my son from this crazy woman.
What I need to know is; what other actions should a reasonable and prudent person take before this situation has to be dealt with? What does it take to have a restraining order put against this woman to keep her from having contact with my child? Are there any measures I can or should pursue through the legal system before this gets where I am afraid it is heading?

What would you do in my situation?

A "restraining order" is very difficult to obtain in Texas when it doesn't involve family violence. If the other kid is older than ten, criminal charges can be sought. The most important thing to remember in your particular situation is that the school is RESPONSIBLE for your childs safety when he is there. A simple call, or letter (even better) to the principal, CC'd to the school board from an attorney will probably fix your problem.

First off, the school has an obligation to keep that woman away from your son. How she got into the position to be in the school and threaten him is something I would like to know.

You have taken the right steps by notifying the school that she was trying to threaten and intimidate you son on their watch and by your notifying the police. Now you have a paper trail. If anything else happens, you have her in a very damaging position.

Stay in touch with school officials and see what followup has been taken. If they don't protect your son, they are a position to be held liable.

First off, you've done well so far.. Having that little episode where others can (and did) hear was stellar.. Now you got witnesses.

You can try for a restraining order but they're usually about as worthless as Obama.. Since the mother didn't actually touch you or your son the cops can only file a report, and nothing else (IMHO).. If she ever does actually assault you or your son you can then have her arrested and charged.

I would again talk to the principal - mention this last part (" As I expected, she flew off the handle and became vulgar as we left.") and let them know that (a) this occured on school grounds and (b) the control of this woman and son is THEIR responsibility while on their grounds and (c) if it happens again the school will be in deep Pelosi..

Good luck sir.. And let us know what transpires..

How old is your son?

I'd seek consul with a lawyer. The school has to be careful of it's position and actions to avoid the woman claiming her rights were violated. My experience with my kids schools, though limited, makes me believe they are mostly interested in covering their azz first, and your concerns second.

Apply for HRO anyway once granted it then takes the school out of play and directly into the courts hands. You may also want to make a phone call family services with a mental health concern call for the mother. If she is going after kids there is an issue.

Some LEO's unfortunately do not want to deal with issues like this and pass it along to the schools vice versa which results in nothing getting done or done to late.

The HRO eliminates that right away it compels both groups to act.

We went thru this last year with my daughter.

Up date.

I just came out of our meeting with the school principal. That woman has been barred from entering any school property or school function. The principal is standing firmly in our corner. For now anyway.

However, this woman will go ballistic when she is told latter today. I expect some type of retaliation. Soon.

You've done well so far. Just don't tell her you already have the hole dug.

You have been doing everything right, since she made threats on your son though, I damn sure would go after an RO, no matter how hard they are to obtain. I would have no more contact with her at that point, if perchance she did encounter my child and threaten again, I'd put my wife on her with the marchin orders to whup her ass and do it well!

If you are paying an attorney he/she will give you the best course of action.

Alan

School bullies are a difficult problem. I think you've done just right.

Never, ever initiate any contact with the woman for any reason. If she does something that requires a response, respond only in writing, certified mail, return receipt requested. He with the documentation usually wins the case if push comes to shove.

A neighborhood bully was seriously tormenting my grandson a few years ago. The bully was 2 years older, and about a head taller. My daughter worked through the process you have described with the school. I enrolled the kid in Tae Kwon Do, and today he is a second degree Black Belt. He is the smallest male in his class, but nobody messes with him.

I agree with Redneck (mostly) and what most have conveyed here. But I would also let the hand-wringing principal and vice-principal you'll be watching them! As well as the school nurse and your boy's teacher. Perhaps even the teacher where the bully was moved to.

My point is that you want to come across as an active (versus passive), attentive and very alert parent who won't take any sheet from anyone! Or any pissant "system." If you get labeled a "troublemaker," make certain that accusor is reminded your son was injured, and that injury drew blood! And the "bully" barely got off with a repremand.

You put the fear of God into the school administrators and threaten their jobs, tenure, "peace of mind" and their [most likely] very liberal attitudes (most educators are indeed liberals!), and they'll move mountains or do whatever they have to (and should have already) to protect themselves (and their rice bowl). Liberals I've found are frequently cowards and won't take the rap for the dummazz kid and his mother. Fact she's a widow has absoluetly no bearing in this case.

Your boy was injured! Stabbed. When he's old enough, he needs to have it all carefully explained to him (the principles and legalities). I once decked a kid in the 7th grade for bad mouthing my mother. He sought me out to do so when we were eating lunch at school. His dad was a marine Major when my dad was a Navy Leutinant (sp?) at the Naval Post Graduate School in Monterey, CA - that's long ago been closed. The ditsie mother tried to give my mum grief at the O-club, which my mother has NEVER shirked from or been intimidated by! Dumb kid tried to intimidate me. As soon as I finished eating, I went and found him, asked if he "took it back" and would apologize? When he said no, I clobbered him - once! Chipped his tooth. Witnesses saw it including at least one faculty. Got sent to the "office," and was going to be suspended for 3 days or a week, but my dad talked the school out of it. Lots of crap cascaded from the ditsie major's wife I wasn't privy to, but I was 12yo at the time.

Was kind of funny when the "major" tried to dress down my Navy dad.

Long and short, I should have clobbered the kid the second he smarted off about my mother, or waited until after school to "catch him." I explained I was eating at the time, but dealt with things as soon as I was able to - is how I saw it. Part of the whole mess was not quite being able to understand grownup's logic, but als that was a time less "PC" than now!

That punk bully and his mother, and the principal and veep ALL need to know you'll protect your boy no matter what, IN EVERY WAY NECESSARY!

I hope they all take you and wife seriously, and is finally dealt with satisfactorily and properly. Best wishes!

Just be glad that its not your daughter being bullied by another girl. Chicks are a bunch meaner....

cover your butt, and don't back down

Let it drop, sounds like the problem has been escalated way out of proportion already, the two boy's should have been left to handle it them selves.


Phil

If only it were this easy in today's society...

I'm not a lawyer and perhaps one can verify that the child committed assault and battery against your son and the mother committed assault against your son.

If my thinking is correct the police need to do more work.

Letting the kids handle it themselves is not a good answer. The bullied boy might be charged with some sort of legal action, if he is perceived to have escalated the situation. It is a matter for the school to handle now (since the police can not charge the bully). The boy's parents need to closely monitor the situation and make sure their son is not physically harmed or threatened into submission.

Bullies are a real problem and tough to deal with.

Are verbal abuse a crime in Texas? If no physical act occurred, I don't think the police can do much, unless there is a real perceived act of violence in the future.

My understanding is that a threat is assault and a physical act is battery.

Where is Liar24 when ya need her?

Perhaps filing a Civil Suit against the school will get some action. When the school sends the bully to the alternative, the suit could be dropped.

I'm not a lawyer, but (IMO) if the threat is against your life of physical safty, it approaches or might be a crime; but if it is just ridicule or degrading, it might not.

Now is the time for some good ole-fashoned American street violence. The bully should be sought out and have done to him what he does to others. Win or lose the bully will find someone else to pick on. These guys prey on the weak, or ones they percieve to be weak. There is nothing better than seeing a good kid who walked away from a fight with a bully because he was raised right finally boil over and open a can of wup azz on the bully who has gone to far. This worked for kids on the playground for decades, it aint pretty, it aint PC, and somebody might get in a little trouble. But in the end the bulling is over. These are still kids, hopefully a our country hasn't gone down hill so far we need lawyers to resolve playground problems. As for the crazy mom, watch her like a hawk and get the law involved as soon as you can, adults are a whole nother matter.

Is your son carrying a voice recorder?

Might not be admissable evidence should things end up in court but a reorded threat cannot be denied like one merely alleged.

If it was just the kids involved, then the boy needs to whoop the bully next time he misbehaves.

Unfortunately, with the mother involved the problem is a lot more complicated and dangerous. I think the only way to combat this is through the school and police, then take all other measures to stay away from these people. The mother may be capable of anything, so its worth avoiding them as best you can. Maybe not the macho thing to do, but it could save someone from harm.

poodleshooter, i think you got a good thing goin' there.

i'm on the back end of it, with mom reacting hatefully to other WAY WEIRD old ladies in the rest home. she keeps to herself and gets real defensive if a particular old CRAZY lady in a wheelchair pedals up to her with more nuttiness.

you stick by your boy there. sounds like you're doing a darned good job as it is... i think you are a FINE figure of a father, judging by what you've told me.

a lifetime ago, i was a victim of bullies until i stood up to one. got my butt kicked the first time, and the second. but the third guy figured it out the hard way, i didn't take any more knocks than i would have anyhow, and i got a whole lotta respect from everybody else. my lunch money was MY lunch money. there wasn't any daddy hangin' around takin' up my slack, and forget the school ma'arms. they were too busy huffing ciggies in the teacher's lounge and swilling coffee...

i wish the best for you and yours through trying times. i think you're doing EXACTLY the right thing.

for what it's worth, an adult stabbing an adult with a pencil is what's called 'aggravated assault with a deadly weapon'. when i worked in a law firm and we dealt often with recently released felons to discuss our representation and their payment options on a regular basis. i carried a gold cross pen to those meetings. on a regular basis. just sayin'.

all you naysayers and continual-counterinsurgency types out there at the CAMPFIRE... what we have here, is a man who deserves the moniker of "DADDY".

-tom

Thanks Tom.

Prairie dog shooter:

Keeping cool (cold?) is the best thing and I think you are doing an admirable job. Getting yourself arrested is sure not what your kid needs, and I am glad that you are keeping your cool.

I would unleash the most terrifying weapon known to exist in the American arsenal upon the culprit -- an ominous and vaguely threatening letter from a the scariest lawyer you can find! Seriously. To both the school and the individual involved...

A lawyer won't charge you much for an initial consultation to get the details and to prepare a letter (and which would be delivered not by mail but by your lawyer's normal process server to add to the overall effect).

I had to do something like this once before I moved to Sweden and it worked very well -- but here, lawyers do not inspire fear like they do in the US!

John

The one stabbing him with a pencil, yeah, that's assault and if you really want to push it, it can be considered a deadly weapon, as it was used as a stabbing implement. I would definitely had the police arrest the little schitbag, and have Mom come pick his ass up from Juvie! Given what it sounds like yeah, the problems are just starting, and the kids mom is just ensuring he becomes one of Obama's hand-out kids. Push back real hard, I damn sure would!

Sounds like you have done an excellent job. The school administration is on your side. The bully is being moved out of your environment. And you have a paper record supporting your side with the school and with the police.

Obviously, the single mom has lots of problems and so does her son. Not much you can do there, but protect your family and not participate in her problems.

Selecting an attorney and prepping with him is an excellent idea.

But it seems to me that the best revenge is going about and enjoying your life. Dont make yourself hostage to the crazy mom.

Chuck

I can see it now

Me, "Mom, billy pushed me and poked me with a pencil."

Mom, "Well, did you whip his azz?"

Me, "I told the priciple."

Mom, "Was that before or after you whipped his azz?"

Me, " I just told the principle."

Mom, "Well you little chicken chit! now when you father gets home he's going to whip your azz!"

You see, it's ok to tell the principle, as long as it's while explaining why you whipped another kids azz.

Of course they didn't look to involve the cops for a school room fight back then.

+1
Sounds about right.

Funny thing about bullies is that they don't like gettin' their ass wooped more than once.

I believe that assault is to put somebody in fear.

Here is what should be done.

Caution: foul language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xsaMcw69D8

Actually in Florida the physical act of striking or stabbing is battery. The threatening is verbal assault.

I think you've demonstrated incredible calmness. Having witnesses was smart. Keep on keepin' on. They have a special place for students like this. It sounds to me like it would be in his best interest too. Gathering the data takes time. Unfortunately there's not a great place fer muther, but there is a place fer her.

Hat's off to ya.

what he said!!!

Update:

First I want to thank everyone who replied here. I know I can count on the combined wisdom, experience, and opinions from like-minded folks on the Fire. And I appreciate being able to use this forum as a sounding board.

I believe I have the situation under control now.

The school principal has completed her "official investigation" and issued a "stay away warning" to the parent and child.

I am taking copies of all her documentation, with my written records to talk with an Attorney tomorrow afternoon.

I filed a report with our City police.

I reported suspected mental health concerns and abuse to family protective services through the child abuse hotline.

I have given my neighbors the description and license number of the womans vehicle. I told them she had threatened my child and to please tell me if they see that vehicle in our neighborhood.

I have alerted my home owners association of a threat to my family and discussed getting the video recordings of our community access gate recorder in the event of an incident.

I have heard through the "grapevine" that my discussion with the woman on Monday evening was more effective than I had even hoped for. Different adults have told me that the woman is very embarrassed that this incident is in public. I have been told she feels "embarrassed and intimidated". At this point she isn't aware that I have filled complaints with the police or family protective services and the Attorney has not been involved yet.

I have explained to my son that because they have a documented history of bulling him and a "stay away warning" at school he can assume that if he is approached by that boy, the boy intends to do him harm. My son understands that he has no restraints from me to protect himself by taking the kid out and that he is in a very defensible position when he has to do so.

I have discussed with my son actions he is to take to protect himself if he sees that woman approaching him.

I have tried to teach my son through this event that even though we have to work through "the system" when push comes to shove we have to be prepared to defend our selves. I've explained that the "authorities" can't protect us. All they can do is investigate and punish after the assault has been committed.

I teach my boys martial art self-defense. My son knows that his mother, older brother, and I have carry permits and carry concealed handguns. Self-defense training and awareness is just part of life to him.

I don't feel that my son is as worried about the situation now. He knows what to do to protect himself and he knows his mother and I are going to stand up for him and protect him from "getting in trouble" at school when he does.

Nothing short of exemplary!

yep tip of the hat to pds for having his poop in a group


well done sir.

am hoping it ends up being nothing other than a life lesson to your son.


congrats on being a good dad, with a cool head and a plan.

Sounds like you have ALL bases covered. A few years ago, my stepson was being bullied at school, to the point he was thinking suicide.

About a year later, there were laws passed in KS that targeted Bullies. I tried doing a search to see if there was anything there to help in your case, but I am sure if you have contacted all those agencies, you will know soon if there are laws in your state.

pds you done goood.

BCR

PDS,your to be complimented.You handled it better than i would have,i like your style. Lightman

I had problems with the schools here with both my kids (boy and girl) when they were growing up. Not from being bullied but from fighting back when someone attempted to bully them and getting in trouble with the school authorities. They both did exactly what I had taught them to do. My son grew up in a small neighborhood about 12 other wild boys. They were always fighting so I taught him how to take care of himself. When he was in the 5th grade he got jumped by 2 boys in the restroom. He got the best of both of them and one kid ran to get the janitor while my son was still whipping on the other boy. The janitor took my son to the principal's office. Both the boys who jumped my son told the pricipal that my son had attacked them (the principal and both boys were minorities). My son got a 2 week in school suspension. This meant he would have to sit by himself in a room by the principals office for 2 weeks. I called the pricncipal the next day and told him I was coming to see him after school. I met with him and asked him what kind of punishment the other 2 boys got. He said they didn't get any punishment because my son attacked them. I asked him if he really believed my son was stupid enough to attack 2 boys at once when he was all alone in the restroom with them. He told me that's what the 2 boys said had happened and he believed them. I got a little upset to put it mildly. I stood up and told him that my son had better be back in his regular classroom the next day that I'd be back and he probably wouldn't like what was going to happen. My son was back in his class the next day. The best bullying story I ever heard was from some friends whose son was having his lunch money stolen by a big bully. My friends complained to the school and they were told there was nothing they could do about it. My friends found out who the bully's father was and talked to him. The father didn't think it was a big deal that his son was stealing money from the other kids. My friends hired a professional to go talk to the kid's father. When the kid's father told him to mind his own business the hired help beat the crap out of the guy and told him that any time his son stole money from any kid in school he'd be back to do it again. The stealing stopped immediately.

This is good advice. I'd suggest finding a well-respected local attorney (not an ambulance chaser) to write a quiet letter to the District Superintendent, marked "Personal and Confidential." No threats, just simply: along the lines of "this is important, this needs to be dealt with, the school staff need support on this, and the District needs to take any and all available steps to protect [your son]." Have the lawyer say that the Superintendent can contact you directly, without needing to go through the lawyer.

That will get attention.

You handled it much better than I did when my son was in 3rd grade. He was a very smallish, skinny kid, and was being picked on by a bigger 4th grader most everyday at recess. He told me about it, and I told him there were a couple of ways to handle it. One, ignore it. Two, get the biggest stick, rock, etc that he could and beat the every lovin' hell out of the kid. I told him he'd probably be in trouble for fighting, and that I'd be right up there defending him as long as he didn't start it. Well, he picked the second option, and I was up there front and center with the kids parents and principle. I had my son bring along some witnesses as to what had transpired, so that helped. I proceeded to tell the kid's dad that I encouraged my son to do what he did, and that I'd be happy to whip his ass right there in front of everybody. He chose to go home and forget about it. The principle laughed every time he saw me for a long while after that. I would probably handle that differently, more like you did, today, however. As I said you handled it much better than I.

If a adult threatens my child,they better expect there life is at risk..We don't play that bs around here.

This thread was started almost a year ago. 11/3/09

Yeah JM, I was kind of wondering how this one got resurected.

BCR

my wife teaches special ed, and she had a student who "attacked" her (hit her, bit her, punched her) a couple times. when i found out (she showed me the teeth imprint on her arm), i first called the state dept of ed and talked to their lawyer to find out what the rules were for kids assaulting (their word) a teacher. once i was informed, i called a meeting with the supt., the principal, and the special ed supervisor. i told them if that kids touched my wife again, i'd file suit against each of them individually, and the district. to this day that kids is kept well clear of my wife. were i in you shoes, i do some legal research, then call a meeting and make it very clear what legal action (including interviews to the local newspapers) i'd take if problems persisted. ymmv.

my wife would beat the chit out of her with out hesitation

Man, you handled this a well as possible. I know you came here asking advice as to how to handle the situation, but you should be the one giving advice.

You have shown an incredible amount of restraint. I wouldn't have had the chance to address the lady because my kid's grandmother (my mom - Bigmomma) would have already dealt with this and nobody would have known.