I have my flack jacket on. I am prepared for strong opinions being expressed that someone like me - who doesn't - and hasn't ever - worn a uniform - or put my life on the line for others - would even ask this question. My son is trying to become an RCMP officer himself. But I am asking the question. How much (in regards to funerals for fallen members of police forces) - is too much?

The following article mentions that up to 4000 police from Canada will be going to a funeral to honour an officer killed in the line of duty. That this makes the family feel better - I have no doubt.

But as a taxpayer I can't help but wonder about that many police members who (while they are at the funeral) - are not on the job. The huge cost of flying these men in from all points of a country must be huge, as Canada is huge, and it makes me think the air and hotel costs alone (not just missing man-hours of work) must be immense. I think about the fact, that not only will most of the men attending the funeral not know the man - but I'm probably safe in assuming, they never heard of him - that is - until his death. To me - when I think about this, it seemed in the past a few dozen men from around the country would go to such a funeral - representing the different provinces and territories of Canada, perhaps. Then it seemed that scores of officers attending became the norm, then I heard of funerals where hundreds of other police attending happened - now it's actually thousands of men - from all around the country that seemingly is considered "normal". Is this actually the wisest use of tax-payer money?

At what point does spending the taxpayer's money on honouring a fallen officer - become "too much"?

List members - what are all your thoughts - on this matter?


Here is the article:

Thousands of law enforcement personnel from across the continent are gathering this hour at Carleton University and the Ottawa Civic Centre to honour slain Const. Eric Czapnik.

Wearing the traditional black band of mourning across their police badges, the officers are marshalling inside the cavernous are gathering at the Carleton U fieldhouse. Hundreds have already arrived and as of noon they were queueing up into ranks.

The formal procession will also include many members from Ottawa's paramedic service and the fire department. Joined by many of Czapnik's close family members, they will begin exiting the university toward Bronson and Sunnyside at about 12:30 p.m.

The procession will travel along Bank St. to the Civic Centre, where it is expected to arrive after about 1:15 p.m. Road closures will be in force all along the route during the march.

Outside the Civic Centre, two Ottawa Fire Department aerial trucks sit, poised to raise a large Canadian flag high over the Bank St. entrance when the cortege begins to arrive. Many more emergency services workers are filing in to the Civic Centre itself, where photos of Czapnik are being project on large screens as dignitaries begin to arrive.

OC Transpo buses which are ferrying participants in to Carleton all bear the message "Lest We Forget" on their display boards. OC Transpo also announced today any emergency services personnel in uniform will be able to ride free to attend the funeral.

When officers arrive in the expansive fieldhouse, they are greeted by a large photo of Czapnik.

Ottawa police expected about 4,000 law officers to attend the funeral, and those ranks will be boosted by many more from other emergency services.

�We really owe it to ourselves, we owe it to the community, we owe it to Eric�s family above all else to really do our best to produce a fitting tribute for the family,� said Insp. John Copeland during a run-through for the funeral which was held on Wednesday night. Copeland will be the master of ceremonies.

The �dry run� involved everything from lighting, projection screens and a choir practice to figuring out where the honour guard and pallbearers would walk, even the speed at which they should do so. Care was given to make sure nothing was raised higher than the Canadian flag. Nothing was left to guesswork.

�(Thursday is) an important day for Eric. It�s an important day for his family, it�s an important day for members of Eric�s platoon,� said Charles Bordeleau, the police department�s superintendent of emergency operations. �So we want to make sure (Wednesday night) that we do this right so that (Thursday) it is the fitting tribute that Eric deserves.�

Czapnik was murdered outside the Ottawa Hospital Civic Campus in the early-morning hours of Dec. 29. He was at the hospital on an unrelated call when he was stabbed to death outside the emergency department as he wrote notes in his cruiser.

Kevin Gregson, a suspended RCMP officer, is charged with first-degree murder in the slaying.

I think you better duck and cover on this one.

Are you positive taxpayers are footing the bill?

No, I am not.

I was told (by one who should know - ex-auxiliary) that such things are paid for. I believe him.

To the men who have served - I am wondering - what is "normal" for such things?

How is it - where YOU live? How much is paid for by the taxpayer - normally?

Is this normal?

Most of those folks will be on their own time.

But if this has to be explained to you, you will never understand.

Obviously - I didn't understand.

It's why I asked the question.

And as I said, if you need an explanation you never will understand.

In Washington State we have had 6 police officers shot to death in the last 2 months and another lost in a traffic accident a few days ago. Your quote; "At what point does spending the taxpayer's money on honouring a fallen officer - become "too much"? makes me sick and should make you ashamed for making it.
The funds usually do not come out of the State, counties or in your case the Province coffers.
When I looked over a sea of "Red" RCMP at the services of our fallen officers, I hope that that respect is shown at the services for Czapnik and would be affored your son if something was ever to happen to him, God forbid.
As for you, I have nothing......

I live in Canada, it always has been this way as far as I know.

And BTW, I would rather see taxpayer money spent on honouring someone for his/her protection of people of our country, than have it spent on any idiot politician that never served to protect me or anyone else, other than himself/herself and their own of course.

Dang man, these are people who risk their lives everyday for us and ours, they didn't have to do it, but they did, let them have their honour, don't steal it away because of the almighty buck. Even this post is stealing away a part of the honour this Officer deserves

Lynn

Yes...its quite normal...at least around here. While its customary to send an honor contigent..being paid...a lot of the police and firefighters I know go on there own dime...out of a sense of duty. Being involved with the Legion and VFW here, I've attended a lot of funerals in the last few years of people I didn't know who have served. For me its my way of expressing my appreciation that a brother's life wasn't in vain, whether military or civil service. It also serves to remind me that freedom and safety come with a price and yet its priceless. JMHO.......no flames intended...:)

It seems excessive to me. I don't understand it either. I'm not against supporting the officer's family, but 4000 people for his funeral? We don't do that for armed forces funerals...why is a police officer different?

I was also with the understanding that travel was paid for. Not sure about time.

Well I'm not to crazy about RCMP but I'm impressed by their support for each other. I'd rather see the injection centers in Vancouver and the free dope supplied cut off,and all the welfare mongrels that abuse the system shutdown rather than to cut this expense for tax payers. It is a worthy expense for people that put their lives on the line to serve and to protect. I've been beaten, dragged up stairs, pepper sprayed a few times and spent a few nights in the drunk tank but you know, now that I'm a little older I probably deserved it. I see them on the roads tending to accident victims with cars whizzing by a 60 miles an hour and it's freezing cold out there, but there doing the job, and I wouldn't want it. Struggling with dope heads,and social disorder. Hats off and my sympathy to the families of the fallen officer.

I have a lot of sympathy for anyone loosing their lives in the public service.
That said there has to be a limit if public funds are buying all those hotels and plane tickets. There is never a good time to bring up a subject like this but it seems worthy of airing out.
It is a sad day when a funeral becomes good for business.

It's all about RESPECT. RESPECT for a person who paid the ultimate price for protecting and serving government.

Don't know if the gov. is footing the bill or not, but if they are, then they are showing RESPECT.

No such thing as too much RESPECT when it comes to persons losing their life in the line of duty.

Joseph

Amen, Lynn.

From a taxpayer stand point I would think officers from say a 100 mile radius is appropriate. However, on one's own dime and time who cares how far they come from.

Those asked to specifically attend in line of their duty or job will be compensated for their travel, not paid for their time. Many of the others that will attend will attend at their own expense, out the fact that they have a sense of honour, and dignity, and pride, and heart.

Lynn

I am sure if you care about your tax money so much that you could find 1000's of other areas where money is really waisted.

I look around in my town and see waisted money all over the place. Bronze statues, road projects that are needed more elsewhere, audible voice comands so that BLIND people know when to cross the intersections (serious) the list goes on.

To question this kind of thing takes a special kind of person and not in a good way.

Lets put it this way. I have gone to a number of fallen officer memorials/funerals in my day. I used my credit card to pay for the hotel and pump gas into my cruiser. My daughter continues the tradition in our family. Oh yeah, used vacation days to do it as well, and we are the rule, not the exception here in the states.

I guess I just don't understand it. I can understand the Ottawa police officers attending and also representatives from other police forces. They have one day a year set aside for a police (I think firemen too) memorial day which draws a huge crowd.

The officer being killed in the line of duty is not a regular occurrence up here. The last officer killed on duty in Ottawa (excluding vehicle accidents) was in 1983, I think.

Cops mostly do this at their own expense unless they are sent as an official Honor Guard detail. It always came out of my own pocket.

A fact to be grateful for....

I too, have paid my own expenses - to go and honour people who have fallen - while serving - people that I didn't know - and had never met. I did it out of respect - and to show the family how much I appreciated the man's contribution.

I thought - it was the least I could do.

BCBrian... given that your intent in asking this question appears to be honest and genuine, I'll give you a straight answer.

It is considered a matter of honor to attend a slain brother officer's funeral. While the actual mortuary expenses are covered by the department in question, the rest of the spectacle you see on TV and in the papers is not paid for by tax dollars. Nearly all the people in uniform at a police funeral are there on their own dime. Some agencies will send a formal representative or two, and these officers (usually command staff) MAY draw pay for that day, but it's part of their administrative/command responsibilities in any case. The rank and file coppers who attend are off-duty but in uniform, and if within driving distance, they'll be issued a squad out of the motor pool for the procession. The cost to the department is minimal... a tank of gas or so.

Most of the cops attending won't even submit their meal expenses for reimbursement. The pipers and buglers are likewise there on an honor basis. (I know of several who travel all over the country at their own expense to offer their musical services.) The floral arrangements are commonly paid for by the local patrolman benevolent association, which means the money came from cops and from fund-raising activities.

The solemn ceremony of a police funeral is a reflection of the honor of the police community, and a reflection of the sincere emotion felt over the loss to that community the officer's death represents. How much is too much? It can never be too much.

Bc,
You will never understand unless your son makes it RCMP. Then you will. When you start to hear the truth about the stories that make the news and realize what he will do and be involved in it will keep you up at night. when you see how much money he makes to do these things you will start to understand that he could probaly make at lease double working any other decent job. I have been a cop a long time and my parents still worry about me every night that I work. Think if something would happen to him would you want ten officers at his funeral to show support for all the good that he will have done? The money that I see the goverment piss away it does not matter to me who pays for it as long as there is strong showing for the family.
Dink

They are paying respect to fellow officers as they and we should. Rankling over money at such a time debases the honor and sacrifice these men and woman make.

I have several thoughts on this subject; here goes:

- The police and firemen who serve our communities provide a valuable and necessary service in protecting us and making our lives better. For this they are to be commended.
- Other public service employees, including
(1) Water department workers who fix broken water mains in freezing weather,
(2) Child welfare workers who protect some of the most vulnerable people,
(3) Snow plow drivers who keep our roads clear in icy conditions also provide services that keep us safe and better off.
(4) Road maintenance crews who repair roads and occasionally are struck by traffic.

Their jobs and others can also lead to death and injury but they are not given massive public funerals.

About 30 years ago, there was a well-liked police officer who was killed in an auto accident while chasing a speeder in the Washington DC area. There was the usual very large funeral procession with many officers and probably in excess of 300 patrol cars from hundreds of miles around (I saw one that was from Massachusetts - 400 miles away). I do not know who paid for the automobile expenses, but they were considerable.

Traffic was tied up on the Washington Beltway and its' feeder ramps for about an hour (the beltway is 4-6 lanes wide in each direction and carries heavy traffic - sometimes as many as 250,000 vehicles per day (mostly during rush hours). I was stuck in this traffic jam for 2 hours while the procession passed and the congestion gradually returned to normal.

I don�t know what to conclude from this, but a police officer�s death (tragic as it is) should not be a reason to cause massive inconvenience to the general population.

Whenever any public service employee or anyone else is killed on the job, it is sad and regrettable, but I do not think that causing major inconvenience to the area is justified.

Then getting to you in YOUR time of need shouldn't either!

"Just a Cop"

The funeral line was long,
There's an awful lot of cars,
Folks came out of the restaurants,
They came out of the bars.

The workers at the construction sites
All let their hammers drop.
Someone asked."What is this all for?"
And they said,"Aw, just a cop."

Some chuckled at the passing cars.
Some shed a silent tear
Some people said,"It's stupid.
all these dumb policemen here."

"How come they're not out fightn' crime?
Or in a doughnut shop?
Sure is a lot of trouble,
For someone who's just a cop."

They blocked the intersections,
They blocked the interstate.
People yelled and cursed,
"Damn, it's gonna make me late!"

"This is really ridiculous!"
"They're makin' us all stop!"
"It seems they're sure wastin' time,
On someone who's just a cop."

Into the cemetery now,
The slow procession comes,
The woeful Taps are slowly played.
There's loud salutes from guns.

The graveyard workers shake their heads
"This service is a flop."
"There's lots of good words wasted,
On someone who's just a cop."

Yeah, just a cop to most folks.
Did his duty every day.
Tryin' to protect us,
Till they took his life away.

And when he got to heaven,
St. Peter put him at the top.
An angel asked him, "Who was that?"
And he said, "Aw, just a cop."

Author Unknown

As Tangozulo notes "I have a lot of sympathy for anyone loosing their lives in the public service."

Does this apply to a state or city highway worker who is struck and killed by traffic? I have not seen many large funerals for them.

Also, it costs about $0.60 aned $0.75 per mile to operate a car (depreciation, tires, insurance (either self or commercial), maintenance, gasoline, etc. While the attending officers may pay for the gas (about $0.11 cents per mile), I don;t think they are billed the extra $0.50 cents per mile for their trip.

I know that I would like to never go to another and that they are not a good time.

That is their job, what is in their Position Description and what they are paid for.

I've known several young men who have died in the service of their country (Vietnam, Iraq, training accidents, etc.). They were there for the nation in a time of need and paid the ultimate price. Their funerals were not attended by anyone other than their families and the military honor guard. Why did not the police officers from miles around attend (maybe because their uniforms were olive or gray and not blue; or maybe they just did not think it was important to respect to someone not in their club.

Brian, you raise an interesting point, and frankly it isn't one I've given a lot of thought to, simply because it is to me a matter of a group of people who take their job to "serve & protect" seriously and feel that at these times it is honourable to honour a fallen brother/sister officer. Over the years I have been a pastor, I have officated at too many funerals (thankfully not any for a police officer), and know that there is a certain comfort in "being together" during these times. My BIL retired from a police force three years ago after 30 years of service. He attended funerals for other officers in various parts of the country and in the United States. The expenses came out of the family coffers, not the force, not the Police Comission, not the Province...he felt duty bound to be present. I have no problem with any of these gatherings being at "my expense" as a tax payer, in fact, it's a drop in the proverbial bucket. Their lives surely are "worth" some measure of public support.

Paul

So, are you mad that people go to cops funerals or that cops don't go to everybody's funerals?

I knew a hell of a lot more than a few that died in Vietnam and have family that died in WWII so you could spout your liberal BS. SHUT THE F UP AZZHAT when you don't know what you are talking about!

I was THERE DAMMIT!

I'm a cop. I've made it very clear to my friends and family that I do not want a police funeral for personal reasons. (Not related to convenience or taxpayer expense)

I've also given careful thought to the original poster's thoughts about the cost to taxpayers for police funerals and can understand that argument.

But to refer to the death of anyone, regardless of their chosen profession or station in life, as an inconvenience is tragically selfish and immature.

Actually, neither. I was just trying to make the point that many people die in public service and few citizens show up.

Maybe the Army's (or other military branches) union just does not push the issue hard enough?

In any event, it is tragic when anyone doing their job dies in the line of duty.

When you come to DC, give me a ring. I'll take you to my family gravesites (multiple) in Arlington National Cemetary. I think my family has earned the right to speak their opinion.

Yeah, it's pretty dissapointing seeing T Lee resort to the STFU argument. Touchy subject I suppose but the size of funerals for cops vs soldiers seems like a fair enough question.

Living in Washington state I was deeply moved by the funerals for our slain officers.I also was moved by the turn out of the cmp to honor our officers,I just wish we could do the same for our soldiers who put their lives on the line for our freedom every day.

I'll keep this real short, but maybe not so sweet....


There is no way in HELL you can try to remotely equate the four examples you gave to what a LEO experiences... on a daily basis. If those folks don't show up to honor their fallen co-workers that's their problem. Don't fault the police community because they are a close knit family.

Hell I work in an aluminum foundry. I'm one furnace explosion away from becomming a crispy critter, one gas leak away from having my lungs boil out of my chest. No way near the exposure the men in blue have to face every day. I wouldn't do their job if you doubled my pay.

Did a lot of Funeral details as an NCO, most of them right up in Lakewood, CO at the VA Cemetary, There usually was quite a number of folks there, and a lot of the times you would see Police Officer's on duty show up to pay respect's. Alot of the times, family would run off folsk they don't know, so I believe it should be up to the family. I have no problem honor Civili Servants that protect our lives Daily, Fireman, Policemen, Service members, for what it is worth djs, there is no Service member Union.

Police officers do have a difficult job, with lots of stress - I don't disparage them; I do respect the job they do. When they pull over a motorist at night, they do not know whether it is a doctor or nurse going home after a long day in the Emergency Room or a guy who just robbed and shot a 7/11 cashier.

All I am saying is that they should be more considerate of the citizens who are trying to go about their daily business and may have an emergency of their own. Long motorcades could be broken up into smaller ones, so the taxpayers do not loose 2 hours on a busy interstate.

The cop lost his life. Two hours of my time doesn't come close to the sacrifice he made.

I have worked with the military and am well aware there is no Service union. Service remembers (like police officers) also have stressful occupations, coupled in many cases with long separation from family. They too deserve more people at their funerals.

In warm weather, I used to go for lunch walks through Arlington Cemetery. Generally, I�d only see a dozen or fewer attendees at funerals (unless the person was well-known). Other than the military honor guard, only family members are often seen. These veterans, who are aged, often have only 1-2 in attendance and sometimes no family members present. So that no one is buried alone, there are about 60-70 women (called Arlington Ladies) volunteers who make sure that everyone has someone at their funeral.

Mine aren't buried so grandly, they are still in France. Family is one thing, have YOU been there? I have, as a soldier and a cop.

I've dedicated my entire life being a firefighter. I've lost several comrades in my 32 year venture. Cops included. Some of you [bleep] have no clue what you're even talking about.

There it is, but in certain self centered universes it makes no difference.

2 hours times (perhaps) 20,000 cars (tied up in traffic is more than two hours of congestion.

In 1995, the police closed the Woodrow Wilson Bridge over the Potomac River for 8 hours (not a funeral, but shows how congestion occurs) and the backup extended around the Beltway, North on I-95 and onto the Baltimore Beltway - that is 4-6 lanes of traffic 40 miles long. How much inconvenience did the folks whose rush hour drive extended past midnight experience?

I am sorry for the STFU post, it was uncalled for and uncivilized. My apologies to all concerned and djs in particular.

It is a very emotionally charged issue for me. It is just a heartbeat away for either my Daughter or Son and I worry a LOT! We also will do honor guard and escort for any fallen service member or other .gov worker here FREE at the officers own expense. If all you can think about is the almighty dollar or a bit of inconvenience I feel sorry for you.

Shutting down DC ain't such a bad thing IMHO.

I can't speak for my Canadian Brothers but in my department, travel expenses and such are out of pocket. The taxpayers don't foot that bill. As for time off, same thing. Coppers volunteer their time to attend while others in neighboring jurisdictions cover for their grieving brethren.

No TLEE, I have not been there. I am totally deaf in one ear and 50% deaf in the other, as well as having sight issues.

In college, I applied to ROTC and was rejected. I applied to Air Force, Army and Navy OCS and was rejected by each, in that order. I applied to Marine PLC and was rejected. Finally, I tried to enlist and was rejected.

My wife�s uncle flew P-38�s and was shot down over the French/German border in 1944. No remains, no burial. My mother�s family lost several members during WW1 and one in WW2. They were repatriated and are in Arlington. My father�s family also hade members killed in the service (some in combat and some in training).

I don�t resent police officers or firemen participating in public funerals of fallen members, but I do believe they should be more considerate of the general public and not place themselves above others.

Thats the problem, they aren't placing themselves above others, guess what happens in Colorado if you decide to bypass ANY funeral, it is about a 500.00 ticket. Good God man, you have absolutely no clue.

In college, I was a US Forest Service Smokejumper for several seasons. I've fought many fires (never had water, trucks, hoses and other such luxuries; just a shovel and Pulaski. We lost good men in airplane crashes, jump accidents, falling out of trees on landing, and fire blowups. Additionally, we had a number of injuries (broken legs and ankles, principally) and expected 9-10 injuries for a 50 man unit (in Idaho) during the 2 month fire season.

I don't know what regular firefighters face, but it is probably a lot rarer for them to have to escape a fire moving at 50 mph than it is for wild land fire fighters.

Yeah, they just have to go into a burning building that may or may not collapse while they are in there, fought wild fires, every summer up at Fort Lewis we had guys that had to go to Montana and Idaho to assist in the Wildfire fight, there is NO comparison. Les

djs, I think that you are just



I don't think you will persuade many that a traffic jam is really worth much attention compared to the loss to society of somebody that deliberately put themselves at risk to help others.

Just my opinion -- worth no more than anybody else's.

John

I thank all of you for your input and thoughts.

I appreciate your thoughtful insights.

I, without a doubt, have learned more about the facts - and maybe even more importantly - the feelings - and the reason behind these emotions. I have a greater understanding - now.

My query came about as the result of a student question directed to me. I had opinions - but no real answers.

It was a complicated question - and it lead to a class-room discussion.

Use of tax-payer funds came up.
Use of police time came up.
Use of resources came up.
"How much is enough" came up. If 4000 is good - would 8000 be better?
Honouring our bravest came up.
Helping families grieve came up.
The issue of "respect" came up.
The issue of service" was discussed.

Most of the conversation, and the most animated discussions in the classroom - revolved around the difference between how the dead Canadian soldiers families were being treated - in comparison to a fallen police-officer - and the reasons behind just why that might be.

Sensitive topic - no doubt.

Thank you for your input.

I thought I could count on you guys.

You didn't disappoint.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...apnik_Funeral_100107/20100107?hub=Ottawa (Photos attached in this link)

Fallen officer remembered for his dedication to the force

Updated: Thu Jan. 07 2010 16:32:55

ctvottawa.ca

The family of fallen Ottawa Police Const. Eric Czapnik wiped away tears as friends and colleagues remembered him for his dedication to the force, as well as his love to eat pickles.

"Eric lost his life because of a senseless act," said Ottawa Police Chief Vern White, who spoke of Czapnik's dedication to the force.

White described Czapnik as a man of honour who served his community with a sense of pride. He said his death has affected everyone: his family, his colleagues and the community.

As White spoke, a police officer's hat sat atop Czapnik's coffin which was draped with a police flag in front of thousands in attendance at the Ottawa Civic Centre on Thursday.

Son remembers his father

Czapnik's step-son echoed White's sentiment, remembering how proud his father was to wear his uniform.

Luckasz Galaska said he was thankful for the time he had with his father, and all the things Czapnik taught him.

"Growing up and watching him with my siblings -- my brother and my sister, and now my baby brother -- and seeing all the changes he has gone through through the years, without any words ever needing to be spoken, I have learned what kind of a father I want to be," he said.

"The last few days, we have shed a million tears and have felt our hearts break even more."

Proud father of four

Czapnik leaves behind a wife and four children. He was a proud father who joined the Ottawa police force late in life.

His colleagues described him as a dedicated police officer who loved working in the community - something he said called living his dream.

A close family friend told CTV Ottawa his family is still struggling to come to terms with his death, especially his children. His three-year-old son still calls for his father every time the front door opens.

'A hero'

Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty spoke of how much police officers give to their community.

"On behalf of millions of people, I am here to say how sorry we are for your loss," McGuinty said.

"I wish that words could take away your pain, but I know that they can't and they can't replace your brother, your son, your husband, your father."

He finished by saying that Czapnik would be forever remembered as a hero.

Solemn tribute

The funeral service followed a solemn parade of more than 4,000 police officers marching through the streets of Ottawa, in an emotional display of thousands of red and black uniforms flowing along the streets of Ottawa.

The officers, as well as first responders, including paramedics and firefighters, marched behind a hearse carrying the casket of Czapnik, 51, who was stabbed to death in an attack outside the Civic Campus of the Ottawa Hospital on Dec. 29.

He was sitting in his police cruiser filling out paperwork on an unrelated, low-risk call at the time of the attack.

Nearby paramedics were first on the scene. They restrained the suspect, and desperately tried to save Czapnik, who was pronounced dead a short time later.

Suspended RCMP officer Kevin Gregson is charged with first-degree murder in his death. Gregson's lawyer said his client's mental health will be argued in his defence. His next court appearance is scheduled for Jan. 19.

Tragedy felt by many

Police officers from across Canada and the United States were in Ottawa to offer their support.

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair said although the tragedy happened in Ottawa, it's a traumatic event for police officers everywhere.

"The reason we're here is to demonstrate first of all our respects and our condolences for the fallen officer and also our relationship and kindred care for the officers of the Ottawa Police Service, for the City of Ottawa because the citizens have lost one of their public servants," Blair told CTV News Channel.

An American honour guard from the sheriff's office in Syracuse agreed, noting the tragedy affects everyone in the profession.

He said borders are merely thin blue lines separating provinces, states and countries. When a police officer is killed, everyone is affected.

Czapnik is the first Ottawa police officer to be killed on the job since 1983.

A private burial will follow the funeral at the Beechwood Cemetery. A private reception for his family and members of the police force will be held at the Aberdeen Pavilion later this afternoon.

a PO that spent his career patroling the mean streets of bad neighborhoods,trying to make a difference and staying honest deserves a little extra reverence,the suburban cop that spent his carreer writing tickets at the mall?not so much.

This will probably add fuel to an already hot fire, but I think it is worth saying.

About a year ago, in a nearby town, the newly hired police chief put a ban on all police officers from that town escorting funerals. Any furneral. You had to make your own way through intersections and redlights and the funeral pocession on the interstates.

This chief was not even considerate enough to station a city officer at the interstate on ramps to prevent other drivers from breaking into the funeral pocession or from passing the hearse and cars of the family.

In this county, all other cities and county sheriffs and police furnished escorts for funerals, at no charge. Not only for deceased LEOs, but anyone's funeral.

There was a lot of static about this, from citizens of that town, and from other cities inside that same county, who thought it was a public service and showed respect to the deceased for police departments to provide escorts and direct traffic at red lights and other intersections so the funeral pocession could flow unimpeded.

The city council tried to get him to change his policy, but their pleas fell on deaf ears. Finally, the city council took a vote. The good news is, after the vote, that man is no longer a chief of police.

I think a police officer who falls in the line of duty, as well as Soldiers, Marines, etc., who fall in the line of duty should be given as big a funeral as the people in their communities are willing to give (and as big as their families are willing to accommodate). I would never try to limit such a service - if it was as long as the Rose Bowl Parade it would be okay with me. You cannot "over honor" someone who dies while protecting society against criminals and enemies.

Well said Odessa!

BCBrian,
I believe as has been mentioned that your own point of view could well change if your son becomes a member of the RCMP.

Although I have never been in uniform I am blessed with the friendship of several active members in the LE community and some retired LEO as well. In all probability that has given me a small glimpse into their daily lives and a deep respect for what they do.

It was just this Sunday after doing a bit of stock work for him I bade a good friend in Vancouver PD safe travels back to the coast. I also said a prayer that he comes home safe each night to his young family. It is his face that I see when I consider posts regarding LEO.

I�ve been paying taxes here in Canada for 32 years more or less now. Over that time I have seen the folks in Ottawa urinate my remittances away on some incredibly stupid things. We could begin to talk about foreign aid to murderous despots, failed multiculturalism, �art� projects or even our highly effective and beloved gun registry and still not scratch the surface of that issue.

Suffice it to say Brian, in a plethora of cases they have not been good stewards of your or my hard earned money.

I say that as a preface to this thought. That as a Canadian tax payer, even if I was paying the tab for the officer�s expenses, I would gladly do it. Where do I sign the consent form?

The fact that I am not paying is not lost on me either.

In closing I would echo the sentiments stated by John � jpb- that it is my opinion only on this matter. It is however in this instance an opinion that I�m dead certain of.

Have a good weekend all of our new snow Brian.

Dwayne

This officer not only died in the line of duty, but was killed by one of his own, akin to the Fort Hood incident, if you want to compare apples to apples.

Like many have mentioned some will be there on the tax payers dime but the majority will be there on there on. After 9/11 just form my department we had close to 200 firefighters heading to New York for the memorial. It didn't happen due to the pissin match between FDNY and Guiliani. But us along with the thousands of othes we paying our own way.

The funerals that have been happening all to regularly here in Washington for the fallen Police officers have a huge turnout but those also are for the most part voluntary. My enginge driver is a Bagpipe player and he goes to a great deal of funerals and all on his time, he does it to pay respect to the fallen. So if your inconvienenced by a funeral for a Police officer, Firefighter or Soldier remember that at least you get to go home to your family. It is the same reason that when we are on an accident call I don't have any problem closing down the road if I feel it will be safer for my crew, I don't care if someone is late to dinner or what ever what I care about is the firefighters on my crew going hom tomorrow morning when our shift is over.

Amen, brother.

Again, to say that people should be more considerate of your 2 hours when honoring the death of their friend or family member is tragically immature and selfish.

Regardless of if that person was a cop, fireman, soldier, garbage man or mechanic--we should have the common decency to put our schedule aside and have compassion for our fellow man.

Yessir, there it is.

The majority of the population could care less when an officer goes down. They are more concerned with doughnut jokes and the traffic ticket that was issued to them wrongly by that dumb cop.

Now were concerned that cops pay to mutch respect and waste tax dollars while honoring fallen comrades who die while serving and protecting the unappreciative public.


Where was your concern about waste of tax dollars for traffic and security following the passing of Michael Jackson?

Brian your presenting of this post only confirms what I have suspicioned. GW

I have lost 2 good friends in the line of duty. I have many friends across the nation in Law enforcement. if one of them fell in the line of duty I would be there to send them off. Its a brotherhood. Similar to the military but different. Its hard to explain to those who have never served.

Both of my friends were murdered while alone and by themselves. Both died violently to put it mildly. Both left families. I would have paid anything to be there for their family. Both funerals were impressive to say the least. The turnout from across the nation was incredible. What was equally impressive was the community for one of my friends funerals. Les will remember one of the funerals. The community was great.

What about a small town copper who dealt with every type of call you can think of with no backup? Bad schit can happen in any AO on any given day.

I have never been paid one dime to attend any of my brothers' funerals, nor would I ever do so. Some have been small (as per the wishes of the departed) and others have been massive affairs. None have failed to move me and I hope, in vain, to never have to put on my white gloves and mourning band again.

As to the whole issue of "wasting" the time of somebody that has to wait for the procession......Get the [bleep] over yourself.

George

Goodbye. You just joined Maser and Lee24.

I'm a civilian. A good friend of the family was killed in the line of duty (Philly PD) around Thanksgiving 2008. It was an honor to attend his funeral.

It was unlike anything I have ever experienced. The awesome outpouring of respect and genuine compassion for Tim was indescribable. The Mayor and Police Comissioner spoke genuinely about him (and I don't care for either man, politically).

The rank and file of Police (and other departments) officers that came out to pay respects.

They closed the Interstate for the procession...it was strange and surreal to be driving on it with no one on it. Except at every overpass and every on-ramp, *citizens* were holding signs and flags and shedding genuine tears of mourning for Tim.

Motorcycle "gangs" lined up their bikes and held up American flags along the procession route. Crane companies raised their huge booms up over the roadway to hang enormous American Flags.

I still tear up, thinking about it.

Was Tim worth all the pomp and circumstance? Damn right. He was a pain in the ass at times. However, he was a cop who took his job very seriously. He came from a long line of cops...all dedicated to their jobs.

However, that's only because I knew him. The ceremony and everything related was not only for him, but for the people he protected could show their support, respect, sympathy and to mourn.

I do know that the PBA paid for a lot in support of his family. I also know that many paid their respects on their own dimes.

Aqualung

Michael Jackson's death was not brought up and discussed in my class-room.

Besides, Michael Jackson could not affect the Canadian tax-payer- as he is a product of your culture not mine. I was writing about a Canadian - as a Canadian.

No one has addressed the question I asked in my earlier post.

I thought about letting it lie. But, after a night of thought - decided to ask it again. It was an unanswered question - for my students too.

A handful of policemen have died in service in Canada in the last couple of years - thankfully a very low total. In some years, my own province of B.C., looses more loggers to death on the job. I'm thankful the total of police lost most years in Canada - is so low.

Canada didn't loose a few more soldiers than policemen last year. Not scores more, not twice as many. In the last few years Canada has lost well over ONE HUNDRED more soldiers than policemen.

No huge heavily publicized funerals for them. No people flying in from around the country and foreign lands to honour them. No huge publicity of every detail of their deaths. No huge publicity about their every action in life and every detail of their death. 4000+ military men are not flown in for their funerals to honour each of their deaths.

Why is the policeman's ceremony so over-the-top, so huge, such an event, so much in the news, why such a huge public event - compared to the relative anonymity of what happens - for Canada's 134 dead soldiers coming home from Afghanistan?

I understand honouring those who have fallen in duty. I think it's also fair to question things relating to that honouring.

But why does the typical soldiers funeral differ so much the typical policeman's funeral?

That seems to be a question that no one wants to touch.

I don't know about Canada, but around here tens of thousands line the streets to pay respects to a fallen soldier coming home. They don't do that in Canada?

Well for starters odds are the fallen soldier's unit is still deployed, so they can't attend. Secondly the military isn't a 9 to 5 job, Stateside troops are busy with training/exercises and all. Also the base the soldier was assigened to may be a long way from home. Lots of logistical issues. You do have folks like the VFW, law enforcement, the Patriot Guard who turnout to honor the fallen soldier.

many vocations are revered in our society, maybe because of their exclusivity. working in the forest industry per man hour worked far exceeds firemen and policemen in injury and death. In our situation forest workers provide the economic force so others can participate in a decent life if so desired. Generally people do not just 'fall into' law enforcement. There must be desire and education knowing full well what the consequences of this vocation entails, but they go anyway. Some for a steady pensioned income and early retirement, some for the excitement that does not come with being an engineer in a cube farm in industry, and don't forget the standing in the community that comes with the trappings of the job. For law enforcement to stand together and to support each other is admirable. Other groups of workers do better when this happens, I think its called 'unionism'. I take nothing away from these people who decide to work in law enforcement, its a tough job with risks, shift work (and the 2 0r 3 marriages), driving hazards, dealing with the margins of society on a daily basis, and knowing if I let my guard down for one instant bad sh*t can and will happen. But , some just love the rush of the hunt, I guess that doesn't need explanation on this forum.

Very astute observation Furpick, but very few understand that concept when it applies to humans. It is definately what made me do it.

"But why does the typical soldiers funeral differ so much the typical policeman's funeral?"

That's a good question and I'm not sure I know the answer. Others have touched on this as a time honored tradition and that's probably the best answer. I would agree that out brave soldiers deserve much more and do not get the recognition they deserve. As to your original question, I have attended many police funerals for officers I knew and worked with from local agencies and for some that I didn't know personally. In every instance, I went on my own coin and never even considered being reimbursed.

Not saying it's right or that it has any merit, but maybe it is because a police officer is not a soldier in a war -- he is charged with maintaining law and order - not on a battle field, though sometimes it turns into one, but in the back yards and streets of our own homeland.

I have attended a few police funerals over the last 38 years that I have worked both as a police officer, and now within the justice enterprise as a retiree. Every one I attended was on my own time, meal and accomodation expenses were on my nickel, and the department paid the vehicle expenses -- one patrol car for every 5 officers. But you endure the cramped travel and the expenses for the sake of honouring a fallen brother and supporting his family.

If a soldier from a town within 100 miles of my home was being buried after return from a campaign, I'd be there to show my support, whether I knew him or his family or not.

I've been the guy that is doing an entry into an allegedly booby trapped house with no bomb squad training, and the armed entry into a house accessible only by rail that is 50 miles from the nearest backup with no backup present. I understand what the risks are. I appreciate the men and women that stand for public safety. I stand with them, and always will. If you don't, feel free. I hope you never get to feel the sting of losing a friend or relative to some insane freak that gave nothing to society but trouble -- and a dead police officer.

Well said BK.

Part of the problem BC is the media exposure(or lack thereof) a fallen soldier gets from the media. Sadly, their deaths in time of war get mentioned on the back page of the paper, if at all. A local LEO works within his community and is more visible to the general public he serves. There is less anonymity for him in his AO than for a soldier. That could be part of the reason or I could be all wet.

I think you're right Mac84. We've got around 50K people in my city. I can't go to town and not see someone I know.

Between church, friends, and my kid's sports teams you get to know a LOT of people. And that's not counting work. And then through work you meet people working cases, neighborhood meetings, being in the paper and working through our local association.

A lot of our officers have name recognition with a large portion of those 50K citizens.

Like others have mentioned police work close to the community, they are killed and injured by members of the public. This makes it much more personal than killed by the 'enemy'. Police by and large work in alone or in 2's, this is the lone wolf idea ( WW 1 fighter pilots) a man is on his own making their own decisions based on situation and training, he is not anonymous in the community that he serves. My father and grandfather were in the world wars and were just one of 100,000's of solders deployed to Europe. My grandfather went back to England for King and country, my father hated the farm. Looking for adventure, 3 squares, and bored with life as it was presented in 1930's Canada. Solders are treated by governments as assets or like so many ants in a colony, sad to say fighting and dying for political action just doesn't rate the same as getting my stolen property back or getting jerked around by criminals.

I think it's also different in that when a cop is killed people think, "Wow, I was just there yesterday." "I knew the guy that killed him." "My friend lives next door to where that happened." It makes it more personal because they think that it could've happened to them too.

But whenever a soldier dies halfway around the world fighting terrorists on a mountain, the whole concept is foreign to them.