I've been hemming and hawing for the last few months on whether to build a 350 or a 383 for my Camaro. Well last weekend I ordered THIS rotating assembly. My piston and rings are .040" over though. Summit had to order it from Scat. They had everything in stock and are going to drop ship it right to me.

When I dropped my block off at my machinists, I planned on building a 350 (355, .030" over). My block ended up being no good. My machinist had the same casting number block. He pretty much gave me the block and only charged me for the machine work and the parts.

It was cleaned, magna fluxed, bored and plate honed, the decks were decked at 9.010", the mains were align honed. He installed new cam bearings and freeze plugs. He also tapped the oil galley holes at the front (under the timing cover) and rear of the block, the one down on the oil filter housing and the one that's under the head close to the oil sending unit. He installed pipe plugs in all of them instead of the cheesy little plugs the factory uses.

When I picked the block up, my machinist and I talked a little more about what I was going to do with the block. I needed all new parts for the short block. I told him I was going to order a balanced Eagle rotating assembly. He told me that he's had a few problems with Eagle's products and highly recommended that I go with a Scat rotating assembly instead. He also said to have it balanced locally. The guy that does all his balancing is supposed to be very good.

So I figured that since I was going with Scat parts that cost a little more then the Eagle parts, I might just as well go with a 383 stroker. At this point, there wasn't much of a difference in price between building a 350 or a 383 stroker. I went with 6 inch rods (which cost the same as 5.7" rods) so I could use my factory internally balanced harmonic balancer and flex plate. So if anyone asks.....it's just a 350!

I'm going to go with Vortec heads. He has a few sets as cores. We just have to see which casting numbers he has so I get what I need, which is one of the two different L31 350/5.7L heads and not the L30 305/5.0L heads. If he doesn't have a set I like I can buy a brand new set of assembled Summit Vortec heads for $630. RHS has some really good prices on their Vortec bare heads. I'd still have to buy valve, springs, retainers, keeper locks.

I'm going to end up with a two bolt main, 385 CID small block. The displacement is from the 400 SBC size 3.75" stroke crank and the 350 block
being bored .040" over making the cylinder bore diameter 4.040".

I've read a lot on 383 stroker motors with Vortec heads. They all say that together they make a lot of low end torque. More then likely, I'm going to use a Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. I'm leaning towards a Edelbrock 650 AVS carburetor or a Summit 750 vac. sec carburetor. I've used an Edelbrock carb before. The Summit carbs just came out last year I think.

If I built a 350, I was going to use a Edelbrock Performer EPS intake. Since I'm building a 385, now I'm leaning towards a Performer RPM intake because of the added displacement. I'm not going to turn the motor any more then 5800/6000 RPM. Edelbrock recommended I go with their regular Vortec RPM intake and not the Air Gap Vortec RPM intake. I'm going to be driving this car in Temperatures from 40�/45�F in early spring and late fall, to 90�/95� in the summer months. Because of the low Temperatures I'll be operating it in, they said my carb could be to cool when it's colder out.

With the forged 18.6cc dished pistons that come in my kit, I'll have 9.47:1 static and 7.16/6.83 dynamic compression ratios. Depending on which cam I go with will determine the dynamic compression ratio.

I'm looking at a few Comp Cams flat tappet cams. Two hydraulic and two solids. A hydraulic would be easier. Pretty much set the correct preload on the lifters and you'll most likely never mess with them again. However, I like the solid lifters with the oil hole in the center of them. It puts pressurized oil right on the lifter/cam contact point.

Hydraulic-
XE262H 218/224 dur. @ .050", .462/.469 lift, 110� LSA, 1300-5600 RPM.
XE268H 224/230 dur. @ .050", .477/.480 lift, 110� LSA, 1600-5800 RPM.

Solid-
XS256S 218/224 dur. @ .050", .465/.477 lift, 110� LSA, 1000-5600 RPM.
XS262S 224/230 dur. @ .050", .477/.488 lift, 110� LSA, 1300-5800 RPM.
__________________

sounds cool! might have missed it,but what year camaro? gears? converter? I had a 73 Nova that ran 12's in the 1/4@112mph. It had a 350, 10:1cr, 3500 stahl 10" converter turbo 400 w/reverse manual valvebody, 12 bolt 4:10. Mine ran an RPM intake(old style),edelbrock carb, with CC 280 hydraulic cam. The only thing I did to help it hook was lighten the front with a fiberglass cowl hood, and used some cheap monroe gas shocks w/ cheap traction bars.


get some pics, id love to see it. I dont have a scanner, but I might be able to take a picture of my pictures(that dont sound right...lol) to upload one of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDSMKks2xW8

This is the definition of sleeper. Careful who you line up against. Richard, the owner of the Ford, kept breaking the Power Joke motor so he swapped in a built Cummins 5.9, last I saw he was pushing 1200 HP.

So let me get this straight... Your machinist bored and honed a block for a performance engine.....

THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE PISTONS FOR???

Good luck with that.


Then you go on to tell us you're putting Vortec heads on. have fun when that chicken [bleep] excuse of a way to bolt on an intake pukes water all over in your oil. Seriously, Vortecs don't flow a whole lot better than the SFI heads that were on the Cast iron headed 9C1 LT4s that were in the cop cars. I'd rathole your money and buy a set of Dart Platinum 200's and a plain old Edelbrock Performer RPM (with more than 8 5/16-18 bolts straight up and down in it)

If you really want to get a decent cam that WILL wake the bitch up, take the block back to your machinist and have the lifter bores opened up to .875" (Ford) and spec out a cam using the Comp FL's on the intake and SQs on the exhaust (in about the 282 advertised range, 106 ICA and a 109 LSA should be about right.) And for God sakes, use Ferrea valves... The Comp XE and XS profiles cause a ton of warrantys for Comp Cams. They work pretty well IF the lifter bores were blueprinted (again, if you're going to blow the money, go .875" lifter AND use a master that takes advantage of it.) But I'm not about to sit here and delve into the mechanics of flat tappet camshafts (thats what David Vizard is for)

But what do I know. I only worked in an engine machine shop for 5 years (the one that still holds 4 track records in the NW)

But dude... There's red flags going off in my head...

Oh.... Mock up that motor before you take it to the balancer, and make sure #2 and #7 rods don't hit the nose of the cam on the way up.

You don't want to discover that you needed them "clearanced" AFTER you blew 150 bucks on a balance job.

He'll likely be ok on the cam with those rods(especially if he gets a small-base circle), the block he'll have to grind on though.

THAT should have been done first, as it is not fun trying to keep that stuff from getting in every nook and cranny on a block that has already been tanked.

Do NOT forget to fit the rings to each bore or you'll pop the top right off of one of those pistons.

Edit--------------------------

Just looked again, he'll most certainly have to clearance the rods to the cam with the I-Beam rods. I had to do that when I went to 5.7" from the stock 5.565", definitely have to with the 6".

Pretty sure I had to take a little off a 3rd rod, but we put that one together for the first time in 2003 and I'm a little more cautious when things are going to be turning 7-7500rpms.

The Performer will give you a better power range if you have the HP to keep her reved, and it looks like you will.

If it was me, I'd use the Edelbrock carb with the Edelbrock intake, just because they have pretty much perfected the combo over the years. I don't have a lot of experence with others, but have had good luck with the Edelbrock. I had 2 seperate Holley's on my '55 F-100/351W and they just wouldn't work. Even after a rebuild.

630 clams for those heads seem more than reasonable...is that going rate for them, or did you get some knocked off the price?

Take pics for us too.

Quite a price difference between Dart and Vortes dude...

Oh......... and make sure they check the sizing on all the crank journals and rods.

That stuff from China has been known to have taper and out of size journals.

actually it isnt that much. I can buy Darts for about 100-150 more than what he's payin

Just wanted to add, when your considerin building a decent street machine or bracket racer its always a good idea to look at the oval track guys at the end of the season. You can usually score some Brodix or other brand heads that have already been "hogged out" for cheap. Just have to make sure they arent cracked, but most guys will have em checked before they sell em.

I just finished a 57 Chevy post and used a 355 ci small block in it. I really wish that I had went with the 383 instead. Cam looks good. Most folks get too much cam for the street and get no bottom end punch. I am also a huge fan for the fast bleed lifters, love um. I also used a set of TrickFlow heads on mine. www.chevytalk.org is a great place for any questions you have on Chevy engine builds, those guys know most of the tricks on these small blocks.

New, really?

I was thinking the same thing. I've never heard of any respectable machinist working on a block without the intended pistons, in hand.

Forget the Vortecs. Darts are worth every extra penny. Flat tappets are yesteryear, especially if you want to make some peak upper rpm hp's without valve float. Lose the flat tappets and spend the extra money on the rollers. It's worth it. Oh, and another thing. Don't buy Chinese crap for engine internals. That includes cranks, rods, pistons, you name it. I've seen enough grenade.

I built a matched pair of strokers for my Formula about 10 years ago- LT1 4-bolts, forged crank, forged pistons, Dart heads, RPM intake, EMI Marine headers w/ 4" thru-hulls, Isky hydraulic roller cams (I designed them, they ground them).
Building a marine engine is a different proposition than a street engine; you're talking something that has to live its life at 4500-5200 rpm in what is essentially an uphill climb.
Mine came out what I deemed satisfactory- they dynoed 420 hp and 450 ft/lbs peak. With just me, a light load of fuel, and cleaver props, the boat would nearly tag 80 on a good day in chop on Lake M.

ya, have to do some creative shopping though, and they wont be assembled. but you can find bare sportsman heads cheap. rest of components can be had cheap too. now dont get me wrong, youre not gonna get the best valves/springs/retainers/seals....but face it, with this build you dont need fancy. you dont need roller cam, roller rockers, port macthing components. hell he doesnt need a steel crank, doesnt need 6 inch rods, etc...you can do ALOT for cheap with a small block chevy and go fast.

look at my nova, that was built CHEAP! that 350 put me in 12's, pretty decent for what it was. I grabbed that motor out of an impala at my grandpa's salvage yard. all it was was a 300 horse 350. got it home, tore it apart. everything looked good so stuck new cam bearings in, rod and mains.factory cast crank. cast pistons. no head work. threw in a CC 280 hydraulic cam, edelbrock rpm intake and carb. stock rockers and springs. HEI distributor out of a monte carlo. headers, that was it. the kid who bought it from me is still hammering the piss out of it. too many people fall into the trap of buying specialty parts when 9 times out of 10 it just isnt needed.

I also question machining the block without having the pistons in hand.
I'm fortunate to have access to the machine shop where I have my work done. I do my own balancing using their equipment, I balance every engine I build. It may not help or be necessary but it never hurts. Took a lot of metal off the 425 caddy rotating assembly to use it in a 368. The rods on the 425 are wider than the bore on the 368, crank is the same. The rods from the 368 were toast, that's what happened to the 8-6-4 engines.

You're probably OK with the 2 bolt mains if you're not going to spray it. But with all the money you put into the bottom end you might as well drill it for splayed 4 bolt main caps.

I'd go with a Demon carb IMO there QC is much better than the others.

The last 355 SBC I built I used reworked 305 heads. Had it in a full size blazer. It was a stump puller! ~12:1, mild cam advanced 4 degrees, loads of bottom end grunt. Premium fuel only and 15mpg. Exceptional performance on a budget. Total cost was less than $800, parts and machine work.

Myself, I prefer Buick 455's. With aluminum heads and intake it's within pounds of the SBC and has way more torque. If you don't go RPM crazy or spray the crap out of it they survive quite well. If you do want to spray the crap out of it you'll need a girdle for the bottom end.

Yes my machinist did all the machine work on the block before I ordered any parts. He supplied me with the block. My block was bad and he had this one in his shop. Some of the machine work was already done. I think the person that owned it didn't have the money to finish it so he gave it to my machinist as payment towards the work he did to it. I knew that up front. I was going to order a completely machined block from Summit. I'd rather buy a finished block from him that way if I have any trouble he'll help me out.

I'll check all my tolerances and if something isn't right, I'll send them back. No biggy. Even if I had the motor finished and in the car today I couldn't drive it until mid April or so at the earliest because of the weather up here.

I'll have $400 to $500 top into a complete set of Vortec heads that will out flow any factory cast iron Chevy head ever produced. They flow as good or even better then Dart/World Products Sportsman II heads, I've looked at the flow numbers. I don't have the money to buy more expensive heads. I'm on a very limited budget. As far as the 8 bolt Vortec intakes leaking, none of my friends have ever had any trouble with that. I'm not worried about it.

As mentioned, I'm on a very limited budget so roller cams are totally out of the question.

The motor is going into my '78 Camaro. Right now it has a TH350 trans and I'm going to use a 2000 RPM stall converter and 3:42 gears. The car has 1 5/8" full length headers with a Flowmaster full length dual exhaust system. A 700R4 is in future plans, maybe next winters project.

It's funny you mention David Vizard, I have his book, "How To Build Max-Performance Chevy Small-Blocks On A Budget". He speaks real highly of Vortec heads in his book. He even has a recommended engine build in the book using Vortec heads. I assume that if he knows about cams, he knows a little about heads too

He also says it ok to buy a completely machined block to do a budget build. He said he even does it.

No question the Vortec or aftermarket heads will flow better than the cast iron heads. Question is will it matter at the RPM you're going to be running. I used the 305 heads for my Blazer motor for the small valve size and higher compression. I wanted torque on the bottom and didn't figure the motor would ever see more than 4500-5000 rpm. I wanted high intake velocity, hence the small valve heads. I had small-tube headers (torque at the bottom)and dual exhaust. It got decent economy and had grunt off the line.

If I was building a 78 Camaro for the street I'd have a Buick 455 in it with either a built TH350 or more likely a TH400. Makes for a lot of power, decent economy, reliability and not a lot of high dollar parts.

If you do go to the 700R4 have a tranny shop upgrade and add clutch packs to it. It'll help it live with the higher torque of the stroker motor.

A 2 bolt main is gonna hurt more so with those mods.I wouldn't do it.Doesn't have the strength of a 4 bolt main.Gonna tear that bottom end up.

2 bolt main small block Chevy 350 and 400's are supposed to be good to about 500 HP with ARP bolts/main studs according to the books I've read (the before mentioned David Vizard).

I'm looking to make an honest 350 HP and 425 FT. LBS. of torque on 89 to 91 octane fuel and won't turn it past 5800 RPM. When I get my MSD6AL box, I'll chip it at 6000 RPM. From what I've read in the same books, factory 4 bolt main block are good for another 50 HP or so. One book actually said to be very careful when looking at factory 4 bolt main block because they came in performance cars and trucks and have probably seen rough usage.

It not so much the HP that would concern me.It's the low end torque were things might get sporty.

Been on that site for a while. Talked about my build there and I made some changes per some of their recommendations. I also belong to grumpyvette's site. He has given me a lot of advise.

Good luck with your build; it brings back memories. The wife had a 78 Camaro-(she bought in '79). That car saw a built vette motor with an s/c in it before it was sold for a TA.
There's a lot of suspension upgrades you can do for those cars as well. I recommend the rear disc brake kit when you can afford it.
Fun drivers.

That sure sounds like a stock 1970 455 Buick.....for 1/3rd the money of a stroker SBC you could have a torque monster.

One of the best deals out there, assembled crate motor, is the chevy fast burn 385. Swap out the cam and you have a solid 430 hp for just a tad over $4k. No worries about part interferences or whether the shop is an engine assembler vs. an engine builder.

I would like to go to disc brakes on the rear some day. That won't happen for a while though. Great advice my friend!

Sorry I am late, but ya can't go wrong with a 4 bolt main SB Chevy.

Let me clear this up, I'M NOT PUTTING A BUICK ENGINE IN MY CAR.

I like Buick's don't get me wrong. My friend had a Grand Sport that was bad @ss. The Buick 455 will have to wait until/if I get a Buick. I like Pontiac's too. Actually I like most brands. They all have a few models I like.

My motor is going to cost me � $3000, minus the carb, air cleaner, valve covers and plumbing for the fuel system.
$980- stroker kit
$140- balancing, I want to have it balanced locally after I clearance the rods for cam/rod clearance.
$535- block and machine work.
$500- Complete Vortec heads set up for my cam.
I need my cam, lifters, timing chain, rocker arms, push rods (after I check what length I need) ARP head bolts, RPM intake manifold, oil pan, pump, pick up tube, rear pan baffle, gaskets. I'm sure I missed a few things.

I have to have my TH350 gone through too. There is a guy locally that's really good at setting up rear ends. He put a Auburn LSD unit in a F150 I had. He does really good work.

I know you can't go wrong with them, but I don't need it for what I'm going to do.

$4k from your dealer, 385 hp, add one of there hot cams for 430 hp

I don't want to buy a crate motor. I like building my own motors, I really enjoy it. My 8 year old son likes it too. It gives us something to do together. Plus I know a few guys that have had problems with GMPP crate motors. My best friend's ZZ4 has been nothing but a headache. Our local Chevy dealers weren't to helpful either. He ended up using the block and rebuilding it the way he wanted it. He's a lot happier now.

A guy on another forum bought a GMPP 454 HO. It didn't run right from day one. He tore it down and some of the push rods were the wrong length.

I know a few guys that have use Mopar crate motors with really good luck.

I'll stick to building my own motors though.

After high school for a few years I built engines with a partner for drag racing up to and including comp eliminator - before bracket racing killed off drag racing - ooops I meant the competitive part of drag racing.

Like someone said earlier check out the circle track rags/websites. We used to pick up some stuff for pennies on the dollar from them and they change hands much more often than street/drag equipment because guys come in/out and move up/down classes etc...We even picked up some ex-cup stuff on occasions 3rd and 4th hand.

I measured my pistons yesterday at room temperature (70�). They measured 4.036" � .0002". The smallest one was 4.0358" and the largest was 4.0362".

My father and I measured the cylinder bores tonight. He set the temperature in the garage at 68� this morning before he went to work so everything would warm up by the time he got out of work tonight. They measured 4.040" � .0003". The smallest was 4.0397" and the largest was 4.0403". I'm putting the smallest piston in the smallest cylinder and the largest piston in the largest cylinder. That gives me a piston to wall clearance of .004" � .0001".

Keith Black's recommended piston to wall clearances for their FHR forged pistons as follows-
Street Normally Aspirated .0025" to .0035"
Street Towing .003" to .004"
Street Nitrous or Super Charged .0035" to .0045"

I'm glad my clearances are .004". Now I can put a 75 or 100 horse hitter on it down the road. I'll file fit the ring end gaps for this as well.

When I mocked the engine up with rod and pistons I had no contact with the crank, rods and block. I could completely rotate it over. However, I didn't have the .060" clearance between the rods and bottom of the cylinder on #2, 4, 6 and 8 cylinders. I only had to grind a tad off to get the clearance I needed. My crank and rods were nowhere near the oil pan rails so that was good.

I was reading a lot of negative things about Comp Cams Extreme Energy series cams. I heard that they make a lot of noise and Comp Cams has had higher then usual warranty issues with them. I went with a flat tappet Lunati Voodoo 262/268 cam instead. The specs are 219/227 dur. @.050", .468"/.489" valve lift, 112� LSA, 1400-5800 RPM range. Lunati said being it's going in a 385 instead of a 350 my RPM range will be off idle to 55-5600 RPM's. That's right where I want it. I put the cam in when I mocked it up the other day and have no crank/rod/cam lobe clearance issues. I have more then enough room between everything.

I'm going to check my rod and main bearing clearances and then clean the block completely. My father and I removed the cam bearing tonight so I can clean behind them and make sure nothing was there from the grinding I had to do for the rod/block clearance.

So far so good!

You can't go wrong with a Lunati cam. Never had an issue with them, however that's all I've ever put in an engine so....

Sounds like you are progressing well on a fun father-son project.
My last go-around with Chevy engines (about a decade ago, now) looked like this when done....strokers sound pretty too.

I've used Crane Cams in the past with really good luck. However they're just getting back in business. They told me they weren't going to start grinding flat tappet cams until late in March. I didn't really feel comfortable using them until they're back in business for a while.

I've heard a lot of really good stuff about Lunati so I wanted to give them a try. I really like the specs on the Voodoo 262/268 cam too.

A set of twins...nice!

Forgot to mention, I checked my deck height on every cylinder too. I checked them at each side of the piston in the same direction as the wrist pin go's (front to rear) to minimize piston rocking, which I didn't eliminate completely. The deck heights were .008" to .012". Again, I had a little piston rocking. I'm thinking a .032" thick heads gasket will give me the quench area I need.