I have some info to share. If you picked up, or dug up, that stuff from public land you're guilty of several felonies. Just one would cost you your gun rights.
my grandmother has or had a bunch of hammerstones and arrow points, infact there are tipi rings off of what used to be their north fields.....but after 2 generations looking over their property before i came along ive never come across anything...
anymore i hunt mainly public lands, havent seen any native artifacts but im looking at my feet as much as up looking for deer or such....where i normally hunt is part of the Hell Creek Formation and is full of dinosaur fossils, lots of cool stuff has been found by hunters out there but i havent been lucky enough to stumble on anything yet.....cant collect vertebrate fossils off public land but i can get credit for finding it
sal, we don't see much obsidian around here. Most of the stuff here is petrified wood. I found these points on a jobsite while framing a house. The owner didn't want them....
This thumb scraper was found in a driveway at a ranch. People had to have walked over it a bazillion times in the last 150 years....
I also found a slightly more modern artifact while remodeling the same ranchhouse. A Henry copper cartridge that had multiple firing pin hits, stuffed in a crack of the 1870's log house.....Maybe failed during an injun fight?.....
Private property artifacts are legal to pick up, no skeleton and burial objects now.
Artifacts are legal to own that were obtained legally at the time of discovery, many laws have changed over the years and proving illegal discovery would be hard on a 800 year old object in your house.
Interesting thread. Before we became such a PC country looking for artifacts was great clean fun. As a boy I spent many a Spring and Summer day walking the creek and river side fields of corn in NE Iowa collecting them. Then in the early 1960's we spent nearly the full summers for 3 years on the shores of the Missouri digging the villages north of the Oaha dam. But my greatest find is a dinosaur, let me give you the exact location...40 miles NE of Jordan Mt....That should narrow it down a bit. Really neat to find one. I found it while Antelope hunting. Its on BLM land so I didn't take any of it and I have told no one of its exact location. Really fantastic to find.
Guys, you might google "Dalton Hunter". He is one of my best friends for years, and lives in SW MO. I have always kidded him about his pointed rocks. I can give you a ph# if it's not on his site. His opening pic from Table Rock lake in the 1960's is hanging on my wall. Good luck.
Here are a few I found by Hebgen Lake. We used to go there every spring and hunt the beaches where the water was low and we found dozens of artifacts.
The top casing was actually found not far from Reno-Benteen battle site, down on the Little Bighorn river. It is a 50-70 casing.
The other casing is a 45-70, found on the beach by Hebgen Lake. Notice how the case mouth is smashed, something that whites were told to do with fired casings so that Indians couldn't reuse the case.
The large implement is a knife found in the same area. The square implement is a flint from a flintlock rifle that an Indian had converted fro use as a scraper.
Here some my father found, in Tenn. as a boy plowing behind a mule!The one with the silver chain, my Grandfather found as a boy in southern Ill. the native american that wraped the silver around it said, it was big Med. as it has blue veins running thru it! John
Here is one of the plates we have showing various artifacts. All of these were found in the same vicinity, showing various mediums which were used in making the artifacts. This is also an indication of different tribes as well as the possibility of trading materials between tribes.
This particular point is unique in it's design and purpose. Although it looks crudely unfinished, it is not.
Looking down on it from the end you can see that opposite sides are parallel, something very rare, but still the design of this point...
I live on a road known to be an old indian trail. When I was a kid I found a few arrow heads while helping my dad farm. Here is an axe head I found while woodchucking a few years ago
My Great Grandmother gave me this stone axe head when I was a kid. I've been told by a collector that it was the biggest one [of that type], that she'd ever seen.
She also gave me this piece. It's basically just a flat volcano type rock that I was told was a cornmeal grinder or something to that effect.
Although this isn't exactly an artifact, I've always liked it. I found it on a hill top in Kansas. It's some type of coral.
I've picked up a bunch of arrowheads in South Texas but nothing really over an inch long. I've seen them in ranch houses, big spear heads but I've never seen them.
I once walked down a sendaro for about 300 yards and it came up the lightest rain in the world for about 5 minutes. I turned around to walk back to the truck and I musta picked up or saw about 50 arrowheads that just seemed to pop up after the rain that I missed just minutes before. Wierd.
I've never found one here in East Texas or Louisiana where I used to live but vegetation grows up so fast. What I do find here in East Texas every year when I run the turning plow thru the ditch to clear it out is a bunch of shark teeth.
Yeah, ground cover here in east Texas is a killer to finding stuff. Not much row cropping to expose it anymore either.
I have some stuff I found over the years. Had a really nice Caddo pipe I found cute little thing had a shallow bowl @ inch in diameter on top of a lump of clay that had a bear?Dog? wolf?something on the front. Back had a hole for a reed stem.
I professor from Steven F Austin that I showed it to talked me into lending it to him to study. I guess he is still studying it because that was forty some years ago and I have never gotten it back.
Ended my co-operation with professional archeologists.
Prize of my modist collection is a clovis type. A couple of archelogy pros that have seen it wanted it bad and said it was authentic. I still have it.
Found a few burials but our Indians were poor as job's turkey. Nothing there but bones. You can see them but you can't excavate them. Touch them and they crumble due to the soil being so acid. I won't tell anybody where they are.
I've got quite a bit of stuff I've found over the years. A real old clovis-era point, a couple of celts, numerous points of differing sizes, metates, grinding stones, trade beads, etc. I'll try to find them and post a pic or two.
There used to be a private museum just down the road from me called the Idaho Heritage Museum. The owner had spent a lifetime collecting pots, etc. and big game hunting. Besides rooms full of artifacts, the place had dozens of life size mounts from all over the world and an amazing collection of mule deer heads. He even had a full body musk ox.
However, the feds kept nosing around. Before it was over, the place was closed and most of the artifacts seized. The guy finally plead guilty to illegal pot hunting on public land. He'd been raiding archeological sites along the Snake River for years. I don't think anything was ever proved, but there was a lot of talk about his deer heads, too. Many people thought that many of them were taken 'off the books'.
This fall while hunting near a cliff face there was a small very shallow cave above a bench I used to scale the hill. The inside of the cave was probably about 6' deep and the roof of it was blackened from the smoke of eons of cooking fires. My brother-in-law was hunting about a mile from me and after the 3rd day he told me he had found an arrowhead in the dirt near where he was sitting. The next day I decided to take my lunch and explore the area around the cave. I found pottery shards, scrapers, spear tips, flint shards and arrowheads. Some of the pottery shards even had the fingerprints of their makers still visible. I had recently read a book about the Anastazi and their disapearance that I enjoyed very much. I loaned it to my Dad when I was done since he had some interest as well. That night I called him and described the pottery shards I had seen (there were many different colors and textures indicating that whoever used the cave was there for many generations and had traded widely). According to the book, the earliest pieces were from about 450 AD and the latest around 1300 AD. I figured that the cave was used as some kind of a temporary hunting camp, but who knows? It was pretty cool to know that I was hunting in a place that others had used long before me.
There are thousands of ruins following the river chains in Az, from one roomers to mounds that were habitated for centuries and hundreds of rooms and burials. In some areas there were many more people living in the river areas 1000 years ago than are now.
I really like finding the out of the way ones, usually small, couple rooms, one family probably. I sit and imagine their life, probably never venturing more than 10/20 miles from that spot. Thinking about what's around there of interest they based their life on.
I found this one in an area far from the normal spots. Possibly a hunting lodge, no growing area.
burial mounds in SW Mo were great for turning up arrowheads in my youth
few years ago hunted a river up north for an outfitter that needed me for 10 days, part of the allure of going is it's really near my taxidermist/pilot/sheep hunter extraordinaire pard Skip's annual hunting grounds for moose and bou
in fact Skip dropped his Cub into visit at our camp and a few days later flew us up to his camp to try and chase a bear to ground that had been gettin in their meat as I had a bear hunter.
while there he showed me a cave up on a pretty steep bluff, but accessible, lots of Indian paintings on the wall, lots of shards, etc. great overlook of the river valley, pretty sure they put a few good guys with good vision up there to direct hunting parties on the ground where to go to get game.
pretty fascinating to me, that we were doing similar all those years later.
Stone points were collected mostly from cultivated farm fields in Southwestern Wisconsin. A few collected on known campsites. They are aged from Archaic to Late Woodland.
On the left is a Hixton quartzite blank and the other is a Prairie du Chien chert blank.
To all members YEHA-NOHA (Wish of Happiness and Prosperity)
Nothing too exciting, but while working is SoCal we have archaeologists with us and they will point out milling sites and areas where Indians have chipped flakes away when making scrapers and the like.
I have some info to share. If you picked up, or dug up, that stuff from public land you're guilty of several felonies. Just one would cost you your gun rights.
But its legal for the government to freeze building projects indefinately on private land when artifacts are found during earth removal. Costing owners greatly by delaying or shuting down projects. A little government is a necessary thing but what we have now is a nighmare. Hard to dig in Missouri around water sources without running across stone artifacts.
I sure that anyone on the fire that collects artifacts and post pictures does so in a legal manner. Nice rocks guys! Enjoying the legal pictures. GW
when i was a kid some friends had property up by campwood tx. one summer some other kids found a human skull with 17 arrow heads stuck in it just north of their place.it was later determined that it was the skull of a black woman. they speculated that the Comanches had captured her and tied her to a tree so their young ones could use her for target practice
I have some info to share. If you picked up, or dug up, that stuff from public land you're guilty of several felonies. Just one would cost you your gun rights.
But its legal for the government to freeze building projects indefinately on private land when artifacts are found during earth removal. ....
Only if there's government money involved. And not "indefinately." The site is mitigated, i.e., decided not worth excavating or excavated. Either way, you eventually get to dig your water line.
[quote=Junior1942]>You guys have any good stuff to share?
I have some info to share. If you picked up, or dug up, that stuff from public land you're guilty of several felonies. Just one would cost you your gun rights.
But its legal for the government to freeze building projects indefinately on private land when artifacts are found during earth removal. ....
Only if there's government money involved. And not "indefinately." The site is mitigated, i.e., decided not worth excavating or excavated. Either way, you eventually get to dig your water line.[/quote
Your correct indefinately is not two years to delay a bridge project only seemed that way, while driving several miles around it. They found part of a skull and a few flint tools. Best not to notice those things if you want to finish a project. GW
Does anyone have any tips for looking? I havent a clue where to start and thought it would be fun to bring my 6 year old daughter out. Just another reason to be outside in the woods/fields. It would be nice if we could have a smidgen of success to keep her interested.
Just find the water....creeks, rivers, or even where they used to be. Look over the high spots near the water and there were Indians there at some point.
we went out looking with no luck. Maybe our indians were neater and picked up all their unwanted items and properly disposed of them in the garbage can??? Just kidding, we will try some more.
Recently found a cache of several hundred points of outstanding artifacts. Approx 150 birds, knives & etc. Have no picture posting ability or I would share.
I guess I should tell the complete story. The find was made in an attic where I was buying antiques from an estate. Had bought some from this estate previously and the son of the collector advised at that time his father must have sold the good points. Apparently he had not. Bout had the big one when I pulled the lid off of the first box we found. Great thing about this was most of it was marked what local county that it was found in. Some great stuff, drills and bird points with dalton bases. Four or five nice knives. Was going to sell some to recoup some of my money, but after framing several frames of the best ones, wasn't mutch left to sell. Lucky for me the 50 year old son of the collector is not an artifact person. GW
on the bird points, read an article a lil while back that they may be misnamed.....seems they found some they could pull DNA off of and it turned out to be that of big game.....someone did some tests on a recently killed deer and found the bird point penetrated alot deeper than what was conventionally thought to be the "big game points"
When I was a kid in the late 50's and 60's a friends family hunted arrow heads for a hobby. They had many hundreds of them and I have often wondered what became of them. I was up on Hart Mountain (Oregon) with my Grandfather when I was a kid. He stopped the Jeep and said "I bet there's some arrow heads out there", and sure enough a few minutes later he found one. It was about 40 years later that it occurred to me that the old fart probably had it in his pocket all along. I'll never know though. Ken
An island in Florida that I used to hunt had burial mounds & lots of artifacts. The artifacts belonged to the owners & couldn't be removed or disturbed. The burial mounds formed a rough circle. One can only imagine the Seminoles paddling out to the island in Lake Kissimmee & what type of ceremonies may have been conducted there. The owners allow Indians to visit the burial area, but do not allow the remains to be moved. The owners are very religious & believe the sanctify should be preserved.
Very cool thread. I liked seeing all of the pictures. I haven't found anything walking around in the woods, etc., but in my early days spent a summer studying archaeology in Itasca, MN. A couple of really interesting artifacts that I found included a chalcedony awl that looked exactly like obsidian, a perfect specimen that had a small point on one side and a larger on the other. It was an amazing find for me, especially considering that the tool was used for making different size holes. The other was a copper awl that was not native to the area, which indicated that this tribe had either traded with tribes from the Lake Michigan area (where raw copper was to be found) or that their migration routes took them that far.
I tried to start a thread about artifacts a while back,but it did not go very far.I just started looking,this year,and have found about 3 dozen.All are surface finds on private property,which I have recieved permission to hunt on.I'll try and post some pics tonight. Lightman
"There used to be a private museum just down the road from me called the Idaho Heritage Museum."
Rock Chuck,
I liked that museum, he had quite a collection. I stopped in several times on my way to Florence, Mt (Family). His mother (IIRC), who ran the cash register, spent quite a bit of time telling me their version of the BLM investigation. I often wondered what the rest of the story was. I hope the Government put the artifact are on display somewhere for the public to enjoy.
Huntsman, You've got quite a collection, all I ever found was broken stuff.
Here's a link to a large private collection of Arikara artifacts on 30 display boards dating back to collecting from the 50's. I know at one time it was up for sale.
Pickins have been slim,lately.I have not found anything in several weeks.All of my places are farm land.Harvest will be over soon,and its been dry enough that they are working up the ground,but we need a rain real bad. Lightman
Have had a number of 'ol timers tell me that back in the 50's a couple were riding horses on my property and one of them fell partially thru into a hidden cave. According to what I was told, a university supposedly came in and excavated the cave and among other finds found Indian paintings on the walls.
Years later in the 80's, a farmer who lived across the dirt road became worried because local children were playing in the cave and he felt it was unsafe so he took his dozer and pushed field stone over the opening.
Not sure if any of it is true but I've been told by enough different 'ol fellas that my curiosity makes me wonder.
You can see in the following pic where there's field stone that was pushed over this spot. Might be true, might be all talk.
Sits right above this spring hole which seems like it would make a good spot.
I like that material,any idea what it is?I have found a few more,but pickins have been slim.Have checked out several new spots and found lots of flint pieces and a few brokes,enough to make me remember them this spring.Lightman
its not obsidian. Or our usual petrified wood. Kinda grainy like granite or some other igneous type rock, only finer grained. Never found one, of the same stuff.....
Man, I would just like to find 1! I have looked but so far nada. Prolly not looking in the right places. Doesnt work too good this time of year under 2-3 feet of snow either! lotsa shovel work....
Man, I would just like to find 1! I have looked but so far nada. Prolly not looking in the right places. Doesnt work too good this time of year under 2-3 feet of snow either! lotsa shovel work....
me too......part of the problem is im more and more convinced that mostly the Natives used this area for summer hunting, even they were smart enough to head for the the warmer winters of teh Black Hills, to hell with spending a winter here if they didnt have too
I'm a closet knapper. Our region here (SE Oregon) is blessed with tons of obsidian. Chunks turn up in my yard anytime I need to dig a hole or flower bed. Starting with a round cobble, I can knock out smaller points (like 1 to 2 inches) in about 5 or 10 minutes. Larger spear points in the 8 to 10 inch range can take a half hour of so. I'll snap a photo of a few of my samples and put it up this evening. It's been a hobby of mine for years. I frame and sell a few for community fundraisers, but for the most part they simply go into cake tins and are stuffed in corner.
Flint, chert, and more agate like materials are more difficult to knap. That issue can be rectified with some heating of the raw materials to make them a bit more glass like. They are more durable points than our obsidian but not near as sharp.
Huntsman22: The piece in your #4827915 post looks to be some low grade obsidian. I know of a source about 30 miles away. It exhibits some obvious crystalline structure, has some air bubbles, and is a mix of black and red. Some can be quite clear though with light easily passing through a 1 to 2 inch thick sample. It's found about 15 miles east north east of Glass Butte, Oregon. One can find 20 to 30 lb chunks on the surface. Given it's structure, it's not the local material of choice. I've made a few points from that material, and it's a little tougher to work than the more glasslike classic obsidian. There is some similar but even lower grade material near the Geyser Basin area in Yellowstone.
Via chemical finger printing, Oregon obsidian or points thereof, made its way via trading clear across the continent. A very desirable material indeed.
Knapping is the only cheap hobby I've ever undertaken. Materials etc are absolutely free. Now with shooting, photography, and fly fishing, one is looking at serious bucks.
I don`t know if you would be aware, but didn`t surgeons use or still use, pieces of flint for fine procedures because flint is sharp to the molecular level, not micron as would be steel?
No, I`m not making that up...read it somewhere within the last five years..
I don`t know if you would be aware, but didn`t surgeons use or still use, pieces of flint for fine procedures because flint is sharp to the molecular level, not micron as would be steel?
No, I`m not making that up...read it somewhere within the last five years..
heart surgeons IIRC, the edge of an obsidian blade can be exactly one SiO2 molecule thick.....cant sharpen steel that fine.......but it does loose its edge much faster than steel.....
OK. Sorry this is not the best of images, but I just did it with ambient indoor light. I would have rather waited for a cloudy out door situation with less glare, but said I'd put this up this evening.
The coin is a quarter for scale, and the longest lance shaped point (center second from bottom) is 7 inches. The wife and I used to do a bit of looking, and with frustrations over finding mostly broken or poor quality implements, I picked up some rock and gave it a try. The first effort took about 4 hrs and looked like it was done by a blind, spastic, 5-year old. Didn't seem to bad at the time though for a blind spastic 50-yr old.
A month of so later I found an excellent instructional manual on flint knapping written by a gentleman named Waldorf. After reading his book and breaking a few rocks, the techniques suddenly came through.
Since then, I've actually done demonstrations on reservations and at local promotion events. Again, I have never marketed any, but I have done donations for charity auctions.
As one can see, we have a variety of colors of obsidian around here. Black, red, green, a sort of battleship gray, and some that are multicolored and striated. I would need to backlight those for the effect to come through.
It's a wonderful and inexpensive hobby that takes absolute concentration. All that troubles one will leave the mind as soon as he/she starts working the angles on their material. Very little strength is required after one masters the techniques. Tools include river cobble, both the blunt and pointed ends of deer antler, and a larger sliver of uncooked turkey leg bone for much of the final small scale chipping.
As to sharpness.. The sharpest edges actually need to be dulled a bit to avoid chipping. One can actually flake edges that do end at the molecular level. Even small cuts from those edges will bleed for half an hour, because the slice is so smooth that clotting blood can not adhere. Essentially only single cells are severed rather than the ragged chain saw like damage typical of most steels. The upside is that even a severe cut can heal in about 36 hrs, because little in the way of new tissue growth is needed.
Our farm in SE Iowa had a large area that was a campsite and an area that was an obvious burial grounds. In the fall when plowing it was not uncommon to bring up remains. My Grandfather that owned the farm who was a half breed that left the western reservation that his family was sent to in 1910 as a young man, would walk the plowed grounds and gather the bones and other relics and rebury them along the creek that ran thru the farm. He was always afraid that if the area that he owned was identified as a burial grouds he would lose the farm. The farm was in the family until 1967 and I have a few items found there Russ
Thanks for the comments. It's just a hobby though, and I've no wish to be beholding to anyone. Catch me if you're passing through here, and I might just give up a sample.
I do need to get back at it though, as I noticed one of my cookie tins is about empty. Anyone from Oregon that's going to our statewide Hunter Ed conference in about a month can try to pick up some framed samples in our benefit auction. I'm putting about a 4 inch Christmas tree shaped point and a willow leaf type blank in a shadow box. Sometimes I buy them back myself though if the offers aren't enough to cover the framing.
Edited for Roundoak: Discerning modern and antique pieces??? There are some scientific methods that can difinitively seperate artifacts and recent reproductions. Newly exposed surfaces of obsidan or about any stone begin to absorb small amounts of water at near geologic rates. Samples from the surface of a piece can be viewed under a microscope, and one will see sort of a moisture front in some distance from the surface. With knowledge of how quickly that front migrates into the stone and some detailed measurements (probably at near micron levels), one can determine how long ago the surface was initially exposed to the air.
Pieces out and about in nature often have a dull and a bright surface. The patinaed dull side has been exposed to the sun and picked up minerals etc that are deposited by evaporating rain water. The side sitting in the soil surface may be bright and shiny. I have some rejected shards that I've dropped out back though, and they can take on those characteristics in just 2 or 3 years.
Many modern knappers also saw out their blanks and use copper tools for flaking the surfaces. If one does not completely knap off all the sawed surfaces, that is an obvious give away. Copper was present and used by some of the early civilizatons, but an obvious copper streak or tiny flake on a knapped edge may also be a hint of modern work. Using rock saws to rough shape points helps one generate some beautiful works of art and some truly giant pieces. I know a couple folks in the region that work commercially. On their work, every flake goes to the midpoint of the piece, and flakes are perfectly aligned and spaced like herring bones.
Sawing also lets one get a lot of large pieces from a single rock. When I start hammering on a softball sized cobble and am striving for a large piece, about 80% of the stone will end up as waste. I may finish with maybe two points in hand. With sawed slabs, one might generate about 8 or 9 pieces of various sizes and finish with about 20% in the waste pile.
If one is truly interested in giving it a try, surf up some of the Waldorf instructional books. Living near obsidian sources is also a blessing, as its the easiest of stones to work. One needs strong fingers to process the more granular stones like flint, chert, or wood. When knapping, the greatest frustrations come early as one reduces good rock to nothing but waste. As the skills improve, the frustrations show up later. That's when the piece is 95% done and one breaks it when trying to chip in the final notches. Then you just rework it to a shorter piece.
Interestingly, the most difficult of points to fabricate are the oldest of those found in north America. They are the Folsom and Clovis points, and modern man has still not definitively determined how they were hammered out. Some suggested methods demand 3 or 4 hands to accomplish. Here's a link to some examples of those: Folsom Link
I've made a few efforts at those, and running that final flute the length of ones near finished work leaves me with more pieces than I want.
My father was skilled at making similar native american artifacts for a historical museum in Saginaw, Michigan. He became interested in hunting for artifacts when a huge burial ground was found on his parent's land. We had several suitcases full of artifacts in our basement, and I used to go through them every once in a while as a child. Some of them were so perfect, and lots of them were just peices. I really like the pottery and what was called a "bird stone." It was a cerimonial peice worn by a influencial shaman in the tribe. Five river come together in Michigan at Saginaw. The indians used the rivers like highways and traded heavily in the Saginaw region. We live less than a mile from where all the rivers came together. We walked the farm fields in the spring and could find plenty of arrowheads and chips on the surface. When we turned the soil in our garden in the spring, we always found a point or two.
My father's collection was finally donated to the University of Michigan. He got it back years later, and after my father's death, it was given to the Saginaw Historical Society. One of the dig sites we used to go to was named after my father. I very proud of dad's volunteering his time and collection to the Historical Society. I loved helping him dig with the Historical Society. He spent many hours logging in various artifacts and helped in setting up there displays at the museum. He taught a lot of folks about the history around our home town, but more, he taught me and my brothers how volunteering brings a community together. He was a great man.
Don, Good hunt for sure. I'll try and find photos of the stuff my dad collected over the years. I really like hunting for them,iIt's a nice way to spend the day -- especially when you have a day like the one you show above!
I don`t know if you would be aware, but didn`t surgeons use or still use, pieces of flint for fine procedures because flint is sharp to the molecular level, not micron as would be steel?
No, I`m not making that up...read it somewhere within the last five years..
heart surgeons IIRC, the edge of an obsidian blade can be exactly one SiO2 molecule thick.....cant sharpen steel that fine.......but it does loose its edge much faster than steel.....
I read something about that, also. IIRC, the material wasn't flint, but some type of volcanic lava that was similiar to glass, or glass- like. The article I read said that small blades of it were used in surgery, such as eye surgery. The downside was that it was extremely fragile.
Again, IIRC, the article said that someone in either VA or W. VA made them
I don`t know if you would be aware, but didn`t surgeons use or still use, pieces of flint for fine procedures because flint is sharp to the molecular level, not micron as would be steel?
No, I`m not making that up...read it somewhere within the last five years..
My computer got some weird virus and printed some of my photos in different places.The virus is gone,but I don't know how to delete the pic.Any help?I have been waiting on someone to comment on the 1911! I have found a few new points that I need to post pics of. Lightman
Really interesting. I have found stone artifacts in Florida, New Mexico and even when I was in the middle east. Now live NW of Golden and never found an artifact in Colorado despite being outdoors alot and living here over 10 years. Any other hunting areas around here?
Do the math. White men have been finding arrow heads ever since they came to America. Hundreds of thousands by now from ocean to ocean over 300yrs. What have they found, maybe 1% or less of all ever made ? It boggles my mind. The production rate must have been astronomical.
Native (Asian) Americans must have been here much longer than the 12 thousand years historians claim.
I am at about 8500 ft elevation west of the mid point between Golden and Boulder. I think the ground is too steep and things get covered by erosion. Have you found anything high in the mountains? I may start hiking lower down, but I keep a good eye on the ground most of the time.
Mountains are a bit tuffer to hunt. Try to find camps, rather than hunting areas. Come down a bit, work the hogback, around springs, sheltered draws, high points near water, blowouts and rimrock...
On the Hogsback Ridge it is pretty steep. Was this a hunting area or camp? Is there a better aera such as the top of the ridge, the east side overlooking the plains or the west side toward the mountains?
look on the semi-level high points with a view(camps)rimrock promontories (lookouts), fingers along washes, the tops/lips of draws running parallel to the ridge, any sandy raised hump. think 'near water' even tho ancient springs may not be flowing now....
Man, my goal is to find ONE arrowhead, you guys are so lucky! I havent had any luck at all. Mebbe I have to walk quieter? I think they hide before I get there!
found another good point. Can't decide if it's a spear point or a small knife. It has a little indent that fits the right thumb perfectly as a hand held blade....
my grandmother has or had a bunch of hammerstones and arrow points, infact there are tipi rings off of what used to be their north fields.....but after 2 generations looking over their property before i came along ive never come across anything...
anymore i hunt mainly public lands, havent seen any native artifacts but im looking at my feet as much as up looking for deer or such....where i normally hunt is part of the Hell Creek Formation and is full of dinosaur fossils, lots of cool stuff has been found by hunters out there but i havent been lucky enough to stumble on anything yet.....cant collect vertebrate fossils off public land but i can get credit for finding it
my grandmother has or had a bunch of hammerstones and arrow points, infact there are tipi rings off of what used to be their north fields.....but after 2 generations looking over their property before i came along ive never come across anything...
anymore i hunt mainly public lands, havent seen any native artifacts but im looking at my feet as much as up looking for deer or such....where i normally hunt is part of the Hell Creek Formation and is full of dinosaur fossils, lots of cool stuff has been found by hunters out there but i havent been lucky enough to stumble on anything yet.....cant collect vertebrate fossils off public land but i can get credit for finding it
plow that field
Lady hunter/collector that I know, agreed to pay for plowing/ reseading a field that fifty years earlier had produced many artifacts. Field had not be cultivated for fifty years. Work was done and it rained within a couple of days, she waited another couple of days to allow the field to dry, prior to walkin it.
As soon as the sun came up she went into the field and found no artifacts but numerous footprints left by someone who had no problem with walking in the muddy field. GW
Sorry. Go back a couple of pages and it's there. I did not look at the date in time to realize that this was a resurrected thread. See # 5031675 a page or two back.
We have some chert about, but it's tough to work unless one gives it some heat treatment. We do not have flint here in the northwest, but I've worked a bit when I visited some folks back east. It too needs some heat to enhance it's workability.
Flint and chert make for tougher points than obsidian. Obsidian is the easiest of materials to work, and can generate the sharpest of edges. Cuts from obsidian are so clean that blood has a difficult time clotting on the smooth surfaces. Even small knicks will bleed for a half hour or so. The cuts disrupt so little tissue though that they are near healed in about 36 hours.
Found a couple more points. The dog treed a bullsnake in a yucca. He sure looks like the one I caught and played with a couple weeks ago about a mile away....
Down by the creek this morning sitting on top of a pocket gopher mound. A beautiful bird point. 1 1/16" long - 3/4" wide at the base. Set along side a Win 22lrf 40grain Power-Point.
Just down the road from me is a defunct museum called the Idaho Heritage Museum. A pot collector near here had a huge collection of artifacts he'd been collecting since he was a boy. He raised the money to open his own private museum to show it off. He also had an amazing collection of big game mounts that he'd shot over the years. You'd have to see his mule deer collection to believe it.
He had barely opened the doors when the feds moved in saying he'd collected most of his stuff illegally. Before the trial was over, he admitted that he'd got most of it along the Snake River in so. Idaho, all on public land. They confiscated all of his stuff and the place has never reopened.
Since then there have been rumors, unsubstantiated as far as I know, that many of his fabulous mule deer were taken 'under the radar' as those in high places might call it.
sal, we don't see much obsidian around here. Most of the stuff here is petrified wood. I found these points on a jobsite while framing a house. The owner didn't want them....
This thumb scraper was found in a driveway at a ranch. People had to have walked over it a bazillion times in the last 150 years....
I also found a slightly more modern artifact while remodeling the same ranchhouse. A Henry copper cartridge that had multiple firing pin hits, stuffed in a crack of the 1870's log house.....Maybe failed during an injun fight?.....
That Henry cartridge could have been a reload. I've heard of them being reloaded before, they scraped out the old primer residue and stuffed the rim with ground up match heads, then I found this reference to it again: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,5282.0.html. I also recently read a report by someone who has done it with .22 rimfires in the past.
Dang it,..where are you finding these.? I swear,..you could fall backwards into a mess of points...
Any idea what that point is made from? Color is neat..
What do you think is the percentage of pre-historic points that have been found by man..? 3%.?..I bet that's a high number. For as many arrow/spear heads as you guys find,..early man must have been a spear chuckin/arrow shootin fool.....
I would have thought that the points would have been almost sacred with the amount of time it takes to make one, but maybe they weren't a big deal. Maybe the way early man successfully hunted was to throw an arrow at anything and everything that moved and hope for the best...
When she was real little, my youngest daughter got obsessed about finding an arrowhead. She'd follow my wife around the garden... is dis one, momma? Wife was getting a little annoyed because, frankly, western Oregon where we are is covered in so much organic duff that something dropped even 20 years ago is several inches under "ground"... but damned if that kid didn't find a bird point!
When I was digging the trench fir the perimeter foundation for my studio building I cut across a fire ring about 18" down. Always wondered about that.
In New Mexico, as Mudhen will attest, stuff just lays there for centuries. I know areas just loaded with shards and broken points. Finding the good stuff is a different matter. In the 70's, when it was still legal, I participated in some evacuations that resulted in whole pots- or funeral pots with the bottom broken out.
I found some broken points out here at Leakey Tx last week. They are all that kinda beige(light brown) flint. All the flint down in the Frio River- below the house- 40-50 yards is blue to black. Go figure. I always figured some of the broken ones were just rejects. Some may have broke off inside the prey.
I wanted to stop in and say hello to everyone. I moved to Denver from Southern Idaho a few years back. I recently felt the urge to be out in the brush looking at the ground. So, this is my intro before I head out for the first time in Colorado. I have a large collection of obsidian points and awls back home at my fathers place. I hope to add to that collection with some Colorado points. Wish me luck! Sean
I've paid close attention to your posts Huntsman. I have a co-worker who lives in Strasburg, his uncle works a ranch south of Deer Trail. He mentioned heading out that way to hunt arrowheads. My wife and I live in Green Valley Ranch. I just came in from a walk along Picadilly Rd. Got the bug ya know! Sure would like to get out to your area though.
I'd be honored to take ya up on that offer. I'll be able to head out your way next Sunday. I'll PM you later in the week to confirm...and see if your boss is out-of-dodge. Thanks for the offer! Sean
Hunted a private island in Florida for years that had Indian ceremonial circles & burial mounds. The owners recovered a large quantity of artifacts & had Miami University examine them which were never returned. The burial area seemed to have a mystical feeling about it & I could just imagine Native Americans bringing their dead chiefs there. One of the tribes wanted to remove the remains, but the owners are very religious & felt the area should remain undisturbed. They believed that ancient Native Americans must have had a reason to paddle dead chiefs to the island for burial & to conduct ceremonies. The tribe is allowed to conduct a private ceremony there each year. At one time the island was home to Black Bears, deer, turkey, bobcats, gators, armadillos, raccoons, eagles, hawks, & lots of snakes including monster rattlers. When the Spanish settled in Florida wild hogs took refuse on the island.
I picked these two up yesterday morning. It's always a damn race out the my spot after a rain. Have to beat the meth heads and boozers who hunt them too. Trespassing bastards!!!
I know we had different tribes out on some land of ours, but I've never found a thing. Always looking at any fresh turned earth, but it's mostly grass and I think you'd have a better chance finding a needle in a hay stack.
Used to spend more time looking down while hunting Antelope West river, but again never found anything. Although the Ranchers kid had a nice collection from over the years.
shoshoni, I walked down to the range to shoot the AR at some steel. Found this in the dirt behind the trap house.....Maybe I'll look around the yard, instead of walking to the bluff.....
Did ya find any time to look for points today Huntsman? I read up on some of the tribes that we talked about. Sounds similar to the migration patterns of the tribes who ventured through Idaho.
shoshoni came out to the ranch today. I think he had a good time. He was able to find a bunch'o chips and flakes. He also found a busted point AND a real dandy....
I'd do that every day if I could! Thanks a bunch for the top-notch hospitality Huntsman. I had a great time. I took more pictures of the little point. Here ya go!
Great find! I hope to find one someday, I ware one my Grandfather found as a boy in southern Ill. on a chain, around my neck, most everyday, for 3 years now, it sat in a drawer, till than! had a Native American at a show, wrap it in silver wire, he said it was big Med. as it looks to have blue veins in it! offered me alot of stuff for it and showed it to others!
I'd do that every day if I could! Thanks a bunch for the top-notch hospitality Huntsman. I had a great time. I took more pictures of the little point. Here ya go!
Now THAT is a finely made little arrow head -- and that is great photography to show it off!
I am not surprised that Huntsman knows how to be a proper host either! He comes across as a real gentleman.
Found this pair this morning. Busted bird point and a R-P .223, couple feet apart. I natcherly deducetivly determined that some ancients were better armed than others......
Took a meander up on the bluff tonight. The pickin's are getting slim. I'm reduced to picking up chips and flakes. it started with tossing them in yuccas, now I make piles. Have a couple jars of chips for deco in the domicile, but don't need more....Did find a couple more busted points, tho...
A couple of my chip piles. One is marked with an annylope rib.
Really need a few good rains, to wash up some more goodies.....
All those different color flint chips. Does your local flint look like those? The broken points I find don't appear to be local even though there is plenty flint around.
Bumped into a guy elk hunting yesterday morning and he showed me those bird effigies he found. I offered him a hundred bucks and he wanted to keep them... LOL... I don't blame him.
I picked these two up yesterday morning. It's always a damn race out the my spot after a rain. Have to beat the meth heads and boozers who hunt them too. Trespassing bastards!!!
Just lying there like that? I'll be damned. I thought there was some skill involved! JK. I wish I were so lucky. So neat, all the finds you gents make. Thanks for sharing. Some day I'll find a damned arrowhead <jams hands in pockets and kicks at dirt>...
Going through some old boxes... forgot I had this.
Was found just looking over a rim toward the rising sun... could have been placed there or abandoned because it broke before finishing the left side... could even have been some long ago modern camper bored I guess... It's in an area that could have been Old ones and off the beaten path... a neat mystery.
Years ago I was hunting in an area of NE NM and since the are is soil and a gray shale, the red and white rock stood out. As i looked I found lots of chips and fully finished scraper about the size above lying there. Wonder what caused someone to forget it and abandon the "mother stone" there. found a shale arrow head int he same area the same day. Amazing how a piece of worked stone jumps out of all the other pieces of native rock lying there.
found this while out calling coyotes in eastern CO. a few years ago. the only indian artifact that I've ever found. It was laying right in the middle of a cow trail. How it survived without breaking is beyond me.
It is legal to collect Native artifacts on private land, but not on public land which are protected under the National Antiquities Act and many others.
It is legal to collect Native artifacts on private land, but not on public land which are protected under the National Antiquities Act and many others.
been out about a dozen times on a private 1300acre corn lease, found a bucket full of brokes,unifaces,biface,blunts,hammerstones,cores, etc
here's a couple of pics, I got dozens of insitues but will save some bandwidth
Lost Lake, little banged up
heart-breaker large Kirk Corner Notch
typical day afield, from couple weeks back:
Big Sandy
I'll quit now.....
if not, I'll be leavin outta here in headed to the dirt- Meanwhile, the meth-heads are probably pickin em up now while I work to buy their diapers and cigs
ok, so I was hauling this sqared pounder around till, I stopped for this insitu
new spot I'm visiting as of late, lots of blue chert high on a bluff tilled spot, lots of large tools, 'marrow mashers' choppers,some preforms, cores etc. Had to leave 5-6, just didn't have room in my nail pouch. Couple hours pickup very recently:
and drum roll:.............. noticed this unmistakable piece other night as I was sorting thru my 3 gallon bucket of parts,pieces and general debitage: fluted base
It is legal to collect Native artifacts on private land, but not on public land which are protected under the National Antiquities Act and many others.
When you worked as a government forester, were there any loggers that wanted to pinch your off?
I never worked for USFS. I worked one year for the BLM and decided they were the enemy. I worked for private companies, and as a private contractor. Since ignorance of the law is no excuse, I am attempting to help people understand what the law says with regard to historic and pre-historic resources. There is rarely anyone around to enforce it. It is like hunting, people are out there with their conscience and little else.
I have been in the logging business, planted trees, built log houses and run timber sales. Also timber mapping and lots of other stuff related to forestry in the lower 48 and Alaska.
Do you have a cape, with which to fly around at night and protect the earth? If the people that made said items wanted them, they would have taken them with em, don't ya think?
Unauthorized excavation, removal, damage, alternation, or defacement of archaeological resources
(a) No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit issued under section 4 of this Act, a permit referred to in section 4(h)(2) of this Act, or the exemption contained in section 4(g)(1) of this Act.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(b),
Trafficking in archaeological resources: Federal law
(b) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange any archaeological resource if such resource was excavated or removed from public lands or Indian lands in violation of-
(1) the prohibition contained in subsection (a) of this section, or
(2) any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under any other provision of Federal law.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(c),
Trafficking in illegal interstate or foreign commerce in archaeological resources: State or local law
(c) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange, in interstate of foreign commerce, any archaeological resource excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received in violation of any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under State or local law.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(d),
Penalties
(d) Any person who knowingly violates, or counsels, procures, solicits, or employs any other person to violate, any prohibition contained in subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this section shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both: Provided, however, That if the commercial or archaeological value of the archaeological resources involved and the cost of restoration and repair of such resources exceeds the sum of $500, such person shall be fined not more than $20,000 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. In the case of a second or subsequent such violation upon conviction such person shall be fined not more than $100,000, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(e),
Effective date
(e) The prohibitions contained in this section shall take effect on October 31, 1979 [the date of the enactment of this Act].
16 U.S.C. 470ee(f),
Prospective application
(f) Nothing in subsection (b)(1) of this section shall be deemed applicable to any person with respect to any archaeological resource which was in the lawful possession of such person prior to October 31, 1979.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(g),
Removal of arrowheads located on ground surface
(g) Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shall be deemed applicable to any person with respect to the removal of arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.
Unauthorized excavation, removal, damage, alternation, or defacement of archaeological resources
(a) No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit issued under section 4 of this Act, a permit referred to in section 4(h)(2) of this Act, or the exemption contained in section 4(g)(1) of this Act.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(b),
Trafficking in archaeological resources: Federal law
(b) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange any archaeological resource if such resource was excavated or removed from public lands or Indian lands in violation of-
(1) the prohibition contained in subsection (a) of this section, or
(2) any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under any other provision of Federal law.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(c),
Trafficking in illegal interstate or foreign commerce in archaeological resources: State or local law
(c) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange, in interstate of foreign commerce, any archaeological resource excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received in violation of any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under State or local law.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(d),
Penalties
(d) Any person who knowingly violates, or counsels, procures, solicits, or employs any other person to violate, any prohibition contained in subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this section shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both: Provided, however, That if the commercial or archaeological value of the archaeological resources involved and the cost of restoration and repair of such resources exceeds the sum of $500, such person shall be fined not more than $20,000 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. In the case of a second or subsequent such violation upon conviction such person shall be fined not more than $100,000, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(e),
Effective date
(e) The prohibitions contained in this section shall take effect on October 31, 1979 [the date of the enactment of this Act].
16 U.S.C. 470ee(f),
Prospective application
(f) Nothing in subsection (b)(1) of this section shall be deemed applicable to any person with respect to any archaeological resource which was in the lawful possession of such person prior to October 31, 1979.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(g),
Removal of arrowheads located on ground surface
(g) Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shall be deemed applicable to any person with respect to the removal of arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.
I whipped that one a USFS leo, a corps of Engineers guy, a TVA rent-a-cop and they flat out told me i would be arrested, fined, etc. So, I just quit even trying on shorelines and govt.
I don't know wtf anymore.
I carried that whole thing printed off in my back pocket for years. To no avail.
I enjoy looking too. I have several spots in the county that I visit as soon as the ground is broke and we have a good rain. It's been really wet this year....no recreational tillage and very little spraying.
For all the people that know nothing about archaeological remains- Piecing together pre-history is all about context. The only way to evaluate remains effectively is if they are in tact. Looting and pillaging over the years messes up the context. In a place like the Great Basin lithic evidence is some of the only artifacts remaining, along with fire cracked rock, petropglyphs and rare perishable sites. It is much easier for archaeologists to figure out the potential significance of a site is if it is in tact.
ppine: I agree that raiding of well preserved sites should be avoided. Picking over a well mixed and manipulated plow layer on private ag lands should be fine. Context was long ago destroyed. If I were to make a guess, I suspect that less than 20% of our artifacts have been disturbed.
Having boxes of arrow heads in the storage room of the museum would seem to do less for the spread of information than having them in private hands and on display. Everytime someone sees the privately held artifacts there is a discussion and exchange of information. Artifacts in museum warehouses might as well still be buried.
For all the people that know nothing about archaeological remains- Piecing together pre-history is all about context. The only way to evaluate remains effectively is if they are in tact. Looting and pillaging over the years messes up the context. In a place like the Great Basin lithic evidence is some of the only artifacts remaining, along with fire cracked rock, petropglyphs and rare perishable sites. It is much easier for archaeologists to figure out the potential significance of a site is if it is in tact.
well.... modern farming operations and manifest destiny have pretty much upheaved the stratigraphy of soil horizons. Not every casual flint hound is a 'grave-digger'
few archaelogical academics would have jack [bleep] to go on or govt grant tits to milk if it werent for some weekend enthusiast or a bridge project to alert them to the presence of debitage. Fat chance of that much anymore today. Most savvy people and project mgrs keep a tight lid on word getting out.
yesterday after work- had about 3 hours of afternoon light to walk the furrows. Not my favorite, oblique illumination and mosquitoes. Anyway, not 10minutes in the field, bam!!!
[/quote]
blade tool
and here's everything else I picked up yesterday after I took a toothbrush to it , lots of inc tools, broken stuff, odds/ends. My sack was gettin heavy.
Huntsman22 searching rims to put in a few bobcat traps snow burned back from rock face about 2 ft. and there it lay. Bragged, I found a arrowhead in 6" of snow, in fact!
I'll go ahead post up all have picked up since April of this year. Some I ain't yet scrubbed.
last weekend: not such good luck, actually sucked but found a few blunts, many breaks:
this pic is kind of a 'best of' assemblage from 2 weeks ago and some early April:
heres a 3 gallon bucket from the start of this spring of halves,tips,bases,tools, etc.....I will sit down one day, there's actually some whole points in there and blunts, nice unifaces too, just need to scrub it all see what I got. I don't "ooooh and ahhh" out in the field, ain't got time, lol I want to go through it and see of there's any really old stuff in there:
Having boxes of arrow heads in the storage room of the museum would seem to do less for the spread of information than having them in private hands and on display. Everytime someone sees the privately held artifacts there is a discussion and exchange of information. Artifacts in museum warehouses might as well still be buried.
Man ain't that the truth. I will never ever tell or show the "expert archaeologists" what I have found or tell them where. I learned my lesson years ago. To hell with letting them have stuff to hive up and chortle over and we never get to see it again.
I found a beautiful Caddo pipe. I shallow bowl about the size of a 50 cent piece on a short stem connected to some type of animal effegy. Wolf? bear? dog? something. The lower stem was hollow like you could stick a piece of river cane in there for a stem.
I showed it to a professor from SFA State University. I even told that SOB where I found it. I was fenced off from more hunting after he talked me out of the pipe so he could "study" it. Well, he has been studying it for nearly fifty years and I never have seen it again nor has anyone I know. Never got it back and never even got a thank you or a KMA of any kind.
Cured me of telling and showing the professionals of anything I have. One being a clovis point.
Having farmland in SD, there are quite a few big stone tools here and there. They've been found over the years. No smalls, tho. I'll have to take some pictures the next time I get over there. And no, the local wannabe archeologists don't need to know sh*t.
Museums now routinely have a proces called curation. Artifacts collected by professional archaeologists are examined and evaluation for their potential significance. The best place to evaluate artifacts is not in a museum and not on a board in some one's house, but in situ in the field. See context above.
In the West, there is a lot of non-arable land that has not been developed as in many millions of acres. No plow layer and no dsturbance except by cattle and people walking around.
Archaeological surveys are interesting but tedious. I used to work for several companies that did lots of them. Sites are mapped, drawings are made, photos made, and decisions are made based on their potential significance.
My Dad had a ranch in Arizona for 30 years, mostly on the Coconino NF. We had human burial sites, pottery, irrigation works, lithics, and quarry sites. It is all still there if you know where to look.
had a so-so afternoon in the cornfield today. Only able to hunt 3 hours, got runofft the ridge twice because of lightning and rain. Squeaked out a white Big Sandy and several bases, scrapers. Found a fan drill with tip tip snipped off as usual. Oh yeah and found a pestle. One of my associates found a pestle yesterday. Just happenstance. I'll get a pic up later.
here's the big sandy at insitu
also had a friend request a close up of the Benton blade from last few days
All the hundreds of hours I have spent outside and I have never found an arrowhead. Once I was helping an elderly lady with a bird survey in the Hill Country close to here and she goes "oh, look" and on the ground in front of us was one of the nicest points I have ever seen. She took it.
Places like Texas and Missouri have an unbelievable density of artifacts if you know where to look. I worked for a company that did an archaeological survey for a proposed reservoir in Texas. It took a whole field season with a team of people. There are many file cabinets of curated materials from that one site in a museum in Austin.
Last fall I took the kids paintballing in the foothills near where we live. While they were out peppering each other with little balls of color, I took a hike through the countryside. On a low ridge, I was quite surprised to see a couple of grinding holes in the rock. Looking around, I managed to find a couple of grinding stones to fit the holes, apparently left there 150 years or so ago, where they lay until I wandered by. I moved one over to the best hole for the picture, but left everything there, taking only photos. I'd wager I had more fun discovering this than the kids did with their paintballing.
The countryside with one of the grinding holes in the foreground.
Down by the creek this morning sitting on top of a pocket gopher mound. A beautiful bird point. 1 1/16" long - 3/4" wide at the base. Set along side a Win 22lrf 40grain Power-Point.
My one and only find looks just like that point only it's a grey coloring. Found it in Armstrong co. Pa.
I couldn't make it out to the mud today. I'm helping my dad replace the roofing and plywood decking. Kept getting text messages from my other buds that were able to walk the fields.
this pic is from an adjoining property next to our spot. The pillbilly just had to rub it in with this text message he nuked us with. That's aight tho, we are going find his footprints tomorrow. He only spent two hours in there and that's with his bloodshot eyes.
All the hundreds of hours I have spent outside and I have never found an arrowhead. Once I was helping an elderly lady with a bird survey in the Hill Country close to here and she goes "oh, look" and on the ground in front of us was one of the nicest points I have ever seen. She took it.
I think I spend too much time looking up
Birdwatcher
I've never found anything (archeological) either, so don't feel bad. Everytime I've been West River I'm looking down more than anything. Looking at what the ants brought up, etc.
I have found some neat looking fossils in the badlands though, one pretty complete skull and I didn't have a thing to mark it's location or to dig it up (not that I'd violate any laws federal laws though)...
Places like Texas and Missouri have an unbelievable density of artifacts if you know where to look. I worked for a company that did an archaeological survey for a proposed reservoir in Texas. It took a whole field season with a team of people. There are many file cabinets of curated materials from that one site in a museum in Austin.
That would be TARL. Texas Archaeological Research Labratory. Young son used to work there.
Not many arrow heads in my neck of the woods. Mostly rocks but occasionally you'll find a arrow head. I can't help but think what kind of time went into making these. I guess with no T.V. or computer as a distraction, one would have a lot more time for this sort of thing.
Northern CA.If one goes to the OR,CA border there is a lot more obsidian and arrow head type artifacts.
If you happen to be in the Tulelake area of Nor. Cal, head out to Medicine Lake and check out Glass Mountain and the HUGE obsidian lava flow. It's a little hard to find but once you do, prepare to be amazed, At one point, the road follows the flow and it's easy to access.
Several of those artifacts look like what is known here as a "Waco Sinker". The ones with the grooves ground around them. Speculation is they were either net sinkers or small bolo weights. Young son who is a professional archaeologist has one in my Dad's collection and I found one surface surveying a farm east of Elgin Tx.
Still wishing I could post pics. Need to update inherited laptop so it will let me do such things!
I have one of those long skinney ones with the hole drilled near one end. I think they are called a plummet. I always wondered how they were used. I know several people with point collections but I am the only one around here with one of those. miles
Makes sense, all these stones came from fields that are within a couple of miles of a creek with a salmon run. The area is also in a major duck flyway.
I let this thread slip for a couple weeks, but I' ve still been out there gettin it. May be some overlap with the white big sandies mixed into this batch. Missed a few insitu pics but are now washed and on the towel, but that was up current to date last week.
Went this week,more stuff
last couple weeks:
large blade-snap base, black pine tree, harpeth river , some kirkage mixed in, polished crinoid fossil, white points from last posting, coral matrix point(lithostrotion-agatized), drills, a carp point and some busted medley
Harpeth River point
yesterday: a pink banded pine tree whittled down to a drill- also a game ball and semi translucent lance (both still in the pouch)
today; scratch work with rake into some equipment gouges, out pops a couple nice pieces. No, I did not make the break, the patina is intact and amazingly I scratched up the broken base section. That's a first.
When I was in short pants there were the "indian fire pits" long the ridge over looking Mentor Marsh. perfectly round pits excatly spaced , about 50 feet or so. Many artifacts were dug up there. I always searched but only found beer cans and such. Now? I think it's another line of cheap housing.
Wanted to add this with addition to last night's update: an assemblage of 90 days worth of flint flipping, will need to get a larger display case no doubt. The most recent pieces from last few days are not in this pic.
represents a lot of walking, 5-6 hours of non-stop walking on many outings. Just a water bottle and a few mosquitoes for company. No telling how many miles of walking ground covered.
mostly heartbreakers but that's to be expected; it's from ground that has been continually farmed since 1830. It's a wonder everything's not been pulverized yet.
lost lakes, pine trees, bentons, corner notched kirks, big sandys , adena, paleo and early archaic pieces.....etc.....
Man Huntsman, you are one lucky guy! I want to find just 1 of these! Where I live I have never even heard of someone finding one. I will keep looking though. Keep posting up pics so I can live vicariously through your finds!
I found this the other day near my deer feeder. I was walking around a tree, looking up at a baby coon and stepped on it. miles
tell me what the pic is please/and maybe what it looked/what its for from back in the day.........bty> the only indian artifacts that i have found have two trangle holes punched in the top/or a pull tab...aka> empty beers cans.......
Indians used it to grind acorns/corn ect. There is no natural rock in this area. Any rock that you find will have been carried in by someone. I have several of these type grinders that I have found over the years but this is the first one that I found on my land. Most have disk marks on them where they were hit my farmers tilling the land. You will also find smaller rocks with small indentions that we call nutcrackers. I will try to find some of mine and post a pic. miles
I found this jewel off the shoulder of the highway next to a stop sign and wood duck carcasses. It looks to be an early Paleolithic Arkansas [bleep] scraper. Any idea on the value??
When I was a kid, my grandpa built me a small cedar chest and he had these and a knife inside when he gave it to me
Im not sure what theyre made of, or where they came from. I do know my great great grandpa had something to do with building the Indian Steps museum here locally. I figured he got them down by the "indian steps" by the susquehanna river when he was helping out. But like I said, not sure.
you wanna see real [bleep] take me off ignore you idgit
I see that you quoted slumlord. Nothing has made me regret putting that bunch on ignore, yet. miles
milespatton
his username sounds like the dumb kid that wandered away from the mayflower passengers on the beach the second day after landing and he got ganged raped to death by squanto and his homies
Seeing these points y'all are finding reminds me of looking for arrow heads as a young boy. I don't have a place to look anymore but have started teaching myself to whack these things out. This is one I made a few days ago. My intentions are to mount it on one of my arrows and take a deer with it this fall.
The more I work at making points, the more respect I have for those that did it generations ago when their lives depended on it. I have also decided that based on my experience the half arrowheads you find were broken during the process of making the point. Usually, just when you think you can thin it a little more....there you have a half point!
Seeing these points y'all are finding reminds me of looking for arrow heads as a young boy. I don't have a place to look anymore but have started teaching myself to whack these things out. This is one I made a few days ago. My intentions are to mount it on one of my arrows and take a deer with it this fall.
The more I work at making points, the more respect I have for those that did it generations ago when their lives depended on it. I have also decided that based on my experience the half arrowheads you find were broken during the process of making the point. Usually, just when you think you can thin it a little more....there you have a half point!
Not a one. I don't think I have enough Indian blood in me to sell them if there were tourists around. I have been giving them away about as fast as I can make them. Most of them up till now weren't worth a second look and most people wouldn't even stoop to pick one up if they knew what it was.
Been over this patch of ground a hundred times.....and still find stuff. This morning, a busted spear tip and a dandy thumb scraper. And the obligatory chips and flakes.....
Thanks guys! I haven't had time to work on any points for a while. My brother and I are trying to get some knives ready for the Knifemaker's Guild show later this month.
Deer season opens next weekend and I might try to whack out a few from glass this weekend. I am planning on hunting with the point I showed in the picture above. Just got to find a way to mount it on one of my carbon arrows.
Not really. I hope to show that arrowhead with some use on it in a week or so.
This piece belongs to a friend of mine. Family story is "Grandpa" found it in his wanderings when he was 17 yrs old. Been dead 40, in his mid 80's when he passed.
Wife has one that is almost identical, except it does not have the bead work. Shaft is a bone of some kind, wrapped in rawhide. Not sure how sturdy it would be but definitely would not want to be on the receiving end of it.
Nice. I made it out for half the day today and picked up a decent handful of broken blades, a few scrapers, and one point. Not too shabby for the first time out this year...
I'm jealous of y'all being able to go out and find those points and blades. I got out my flint bucket this afternoon and made my self another arrowhead� then gave it to a friend. I'm getting better, but I'm not there yet. It is amazing to me the amount of talent that it took for those guys to make these tools out of rock.
Wish I had som photos but I found on our farm a 2.5 inch long Speer point? Or maybe knife. Don't know much about it.. Looks similar to some huntsman22 has posted
Went out 2 days last week. Friday just at lunch. Saturday made a good walk of it. Checked out some new-to-me ground with permission.
Mixture of preforms, tools. A few blades and a few points. Most likely a work shop area one of the camps. A lot of billets and processed, heat treated chert.
walked around 7 hours total. 20 minutes drive time between the three sites I hit. About 1100-1300 acres under cultivation. Just meandering through on a single pass. I had a partner with me too. He has close to what I'm showing but I mighta sqeeked a 2 more intact points than him but he don't care to post or join.
We plan to go back in a couple days a focus in on some key spots. It's a push, they had the sixty foot air drill getting ready to chop em up.
Huntsman and Slumlord, why do you imagine you find so much stuff in your area.?
Do you think it's because at one time your area was a prime hunting ground and the natives lost tons of arrows and spears chasing game around your areas?
As easily as you find them and in such quantity, there must be a literal ton of them lying in your neck of the woods...
Your areas must have been a great place to grab a seat and knapp some flint...
dw, My bluff was an old campsite. That's why most of the points I find are busted. They broke them while making them, and replaced the ones broken during hunts. Most points, scrapers and knives you find at kill sites/bluff jumps/burial grounds/hunting areas are in good shape. My area was small tribes and nomadic family groups, so not as many artifacts as in permanent camps and villages......
These are certainly not pristine. The hand axe is really primitive. A collector told me that could mean one of two things. He believes it's pretty old, but that it wasn't finished. Based on my description of where it was found, he believes it was part of a burial cache. The departed is sent off with some tools to use in the afterlife. Depending on how beloved he was, the tools may be well done, or they may be just so-so. Or, it could be the burial was done in haste and there wasn't time to leave really great tools. In any case, the axe part is pretty sharp, and the tool appears pretty robust. No indication that it was chipped to have a handle.
The point with the broken tip was found in Texas while wandering about on a ranch I was hunting on.
The longer point was discovered by my Daughter while wading in the Meramec river in Missouri.
Is there any estimates on when the Fremont culture was active? Did they leave any other traces of their culture?
Jim While writing this I chastised myself for not looking it up. Which I did. Fascinating culture, you are so lucky to live in an area where you can hike around and find such items.
They were contemporaries of the Anasazi culture, but a bit farther north, mostly in Utah. 700-1300 AD. Google Range Creek Canyon in Utah for a fascinating story. Little is known about them, but Range Creek is promising to give up a lot of secrets.
There have been few traces. Mostly just the pictographs, some moccasins, arrow heads, limited pottery and fewer baskets. They used pit houses and rock shelters. Like the Anasazi, no one knows where they went.
Huntsman and Slumlord, why do you imagine you find so much stuff in your area.?
Do you think it's because at one time your area was a prime hunting ground and the natives lost tons of arrows and spears chasing game around your areas?
As easily as you find them and in such quantity, there must be a literal ton of them lying in your neck of the woods...
Your areas must have been a great place to grab a seat and knapp some flint...
the spots I hunt were once 'barrens' or Kentucky prairie for Eastern buffalo and elk. Obviously after the mega-fauna was expended, the above with plentiful deer were good staples for meat and skins.
the one spot I'm frequenting as of late has 1/2 dozen upper magnitude springs surface springs. I'm certain without a doubt these were major draws for hunting camps and eventually communities of all three stages of Archaic habitation. I have even found one base of a fluted Clovis on this spot too. There is a documented Clovis workshop a few miles from my spot.
the rivers around here undercut st. louis and st genevieve limestone which has embedded chert nodules in it about the size of softballs. These were preferred for heat treatment.
the other locations I visit, are pock-marked with hundreds of karst depressions which may I hypothesize were watering holes and/or wallows for larger animals during the post glaciation heat up. (it was a warmer climate then some say). So also, these depressions were most likely chocked full of turtles and easy killins. Ducks too.
any river bank in Tn or Ky with a flat top bench above the flood plain is practically a given for leftovers from pre-historic hunters/gathers and even later agricultural based inhabitations.
Dismal outing. Mostly from a construction site. D-7 are a little hard on this stuff. Hopefully the rains will pour good and I can get back out to the good places.
Here's few of those chert nodules. Some get used for hammer stones, weights, game stones etc.
I went Tuesday, we had a good rain. Walked about 6 hours, just meandering through several hundred acres. I never keep to a grid search. I gingerbread hunt. Like to have got struck by lightning, so I had give it up by late afternoon
The brokes were plentiful, found some more preforms, tools and scrapers. The rounds of heartbreakers as usual.
Headed back out this afternoon, weekend too. Got about 15,000 acres to sample. Big corn and beans dude.
The whole lot first pic, tools and preforms seperated following pics
Different pic, flash might've clashed with the wet surfaces
That yellow one is realy nice, I have an old cigar box full of points knives ect my dad and uncles picked up while plowing tobacco, behind a mule on my grandfather farm in Tenn. only found them in the one field, was told there must have been a battle there.
Young son, (the archaeologist aka grave robber with a pedigree) is currently in charge of a survey down at Eagle Pass. Each evening he gives me a report of his surface findings. Lots of goodies! As soon as I can. I'll get over in the old house and find all mine. The ones I really need to get are in dad's collection over at previously mentioned young son's house!!!!
Huntsman and slumlord! You both have some beauties!!!! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks! Really need to get some of dad's stuff photographed. Son is considering a paper on the bulk of his collection as it came from one site in SW Bell county Texas. (Not far from the Gault site if you are familiar with Dr. Collins site).
Below is a selection of bits I found cached in a midden on Live Oak Creek, Crockett co. Texas. In an area about one foot in diameter. There was a real nice Langtry point in the collection. However since dad had never found a Langtry, I buried it with him.
That's what I think about about finding when I set about on my 'rock days'
I'm stuck in the Kirk Corner Notch and Big Sandy prehistoric eras. Not complaining no, they are in the 4-7k BC realm anyway. I've only got a broken Clovis, but I press on. I'll hit one some day on a bluff.
I was walking back to camp from behing old Fort Lancaster. Remember that scene in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" when the grail was shown to Percival (Michael Palin) thru Gilliam's cartoon graphic???? And the sun beams cast themselves from heavon on the grail?? Well, that was the way it was when I spotted that angostura point!!!!! I had a death grip on it all the way back to camp! About a mile or so!!! I was shaking pretty bad when I got there!! LOL!
Yep, I always find the real nice ones when I'm in a completely different mode. Have found them as a kid kicking dirt waiting for the school bus, also found one while putting a stalk on a turkey, heck even found one of my very best ever just turning my car around checking a new boat ramp.
Good archaeologist friend found a gun flint (old one) in the parking lot of Presidio San Saba. Presidio site is in the middle of the 9 hole golf course for Menard Texas. I remember assisting young son there during a field school while he was working on his graduate degree. I told visitors the golf course was put in for benefit of the Spanish officers stationed at the presidio. They buy this stuff!
Here are a few from my collection gathered around Hebgen Lake, Montana. My mother and I spent many early Springs looking for these artifacts where Indians must have spent years hunting and gathering. It is interesting the different materials that ended up here and realizing that obsidian was the most common material and basalt had to come from somewhere else.
The knife on the left is complete and wonderfully made, again material from somewhere other than Hebgen Lake area. The obsidian point nest to the knife is finely formed and more typical of later Indian influence.
The Basalt piece is indicative of a hafted knife and made from basalt. I found it on a gopher mound over a mile from the lake. The next obsidian point is not broken or mis-shaped, it is actually a rare type of parallel plane on both cutting surfaces with some design meant for a particular purpose. It has been so long since we studied and had these artifacts cataloged, I forgot a lot of the genesis of these pieces.
The bottom piece is an actual flint from a flint-lock rifle that has been converted to a scraper by an Indian and used more recently in regards to Indian history. All of our artifacts were used by the impact study done when they were looking at "Ski Yellowstone" a proposed ski area to be built near Hebgen Lake in the early 1970's...
The musket flint sure looks like Chalcedony from France! Also known as French Ambers. French had the flint market cornered til the Napoleonic wars. Then the English Brandon flints gained in popularity. That's not saying the English flint weren't used before then, because they were. It's just the French were actually more popular! Awesome finds !!! Thanks for sharing!!
Went out Saturday,found the usual cart full of broken stuff. This site has a unique geographical feature known as a "karst window". Strong flowing spring feed branch from off property flows in, then disappears into a collapsed sinkhole-cave.
Found this within 25 yards the water. (quarter just for scale)
I spent hundreds of hours as a kid arrowhead hunting in the fields below our house in Washington County, Maryland. Found gazillions of them and gave most away. I guess I should take some pics of the ones I kept.
20+ years ago my then little nephew used to pester me to show him my collection, so I upped the ante and told him we would go out and find some for himself. We were standing at the bottom edge of Mom's yard and I was explaining to him how to hunt and what to look for, yada yada. I looked down and lo-and-behold there laid a perfect pink arrowhead not one foot from where he was standing. I calmly coaxed him into starting his search right where he was standing, and after several false starts he spotted it, grabbed it, and went running and yelling back up to the house to show everybody. Arrowhead hunting was over for the day! (To this day the family is convinced I 'salted' it there for him to find, but I didn't- it was one of those little freaky moments in life!)
Here are some more found in the same area. We used to look all over the for artifacts and found more than projectile points. The age of some of these is thousands of years old.
The upper right piece was complete when I found it, but part broke off during handling. It is probably the oldest piece in our collection.
The white piece below it is almost clear, I have it on a piece of black paper to set it out to be seen. The Basalt point and the other point are very old, way back B.C. The other scraper/knives are of different material as well showing that the material at least was from a foreign source, if not the Indians that left them there...
Put several more miles on my red wings last two outings.
The rain has been good. I'm cased up for better ones of the bunch. And its full. This represents all finds since March 2014. About 7 or 8 visits to my locations.
Lastest sites a bearing lots of tools. I think it may have been a butchering/hunting encampment. IDK for sure.
Here a couple are insitus, they are fun to capture.
would have really loved to spend time searching the chunk of ground DocRocket took us out to hunt on.....Kieth and Roger found a scrapper while looking for a hit pig.....whole area was LOADED with raw flint so im sure it was where the local natives would load up on material.....Kieth brought back a big chunk for a friend that knaps his own flints for his flintlock.....pretty sure a few came back in my luggage somewhere
Several crude knives in the lot, representations of many point types from same sites. So obviously areas were utilized for many years, maybe even 1000s. And again , all points , tools and brokes found last 3 months.
Large tools, scrapers and some brokes.
And finally; the balance of the lot....a friggin rubbermaid laundry 'tote'. Just got tired of spreading it all out. The volume of the spread wouldnt present an image that gives it justice. Sure...lots of crude tools, but also pre-form spear points and flat knives. I'm thinking chert was quarried here and intial and second phase reductions are evidenced.
miles of cornrows, grid searching row by row in the 'hot spots', hours and hours on my feetsies.
I also fan out from hot spots and do wide open across field searches too. If the corn is ankle high, I can weave pependicular through the matrix. Mind you, these guys set their air drill rows at 30", so there's plenty of comfortable viewage as I step thru-, look left-look right-step again all in a fluid motion. It's amazing how fast the human eye and brain can process the scan. If I'm crosscutting, I cover quite a bit ground and can see about 25ft left and right. So about a 50ft swath as i step though. Because all I'm looking for is quick contrasting color of black flint against red clay or tan soil or the quick glint of light hitting a concoidial surface. If doing parallel grid walking, I can murder about 6 rows at a time on flanks at a steady pace. As the crop gets taller, the shadowing robs you of the keen ability to seperate information. However, an overcast day levels the playing field and one can see thru the stalk matrix again.
You also have to be studied in your endeavour. I try to understand how the landscapes might have looked 6,000 yrs ago. An understanding of geomorphology coupled with a hunch usually puts me where the stuff is.
I also don't spend tons of time discussing which handgun is best to carry in the shower. Laffin
miles of cornrows, grid searching row by row in the 'hot spots', hours and hours on my feetsies.
I also fan out from hot spots and do wide open across field searches too. If the corn is ankle high, I can weave pependicular through the matrix. Mind you, these guys set their air drill rows at 30", so there's plenty of comfortable viewage as I step thru-, look left-look right-step again all in a fluid motion. It's amazing how fast the human eye and brain can process the scan. If I'm crosscutting, I cover quite a bit ground and can see about 25ft left and right. So about a 50ft swath as i step though. Because all I'm looking for is quick contrasting color of black flint against red clay or tan soil or the quick glint of light hitting a concoidial surface. If doing parallel grid walking, I can murder about 6 rows at a time on flanks at a steady pace. As the crop gets taller, the shadowing robs you of the keen ability to seperate information. However, an overcast day levels the playing field and one can see thru the stalk matrix again.
You also have to be studied in your endeavour. I try to understand how the landscapes might have looked 6,000 yrs ago. An understanding of geomorphology coupled with a hunch usually puts me where the stuff is.
I also don't spend tons of time discussing which handgun is best to carry in the shower. Laffin
this is why i cant get the guy to turkey for nothing in the spring alot of times
out addicted like a methhead looking for broken rocks on the ground
i found an arrow head when i was out walking around one day with him
20 minutes later he finds a huge spear point something or other that put my puny thing to shame
I love seeing this stuff. It brings back memories of hunting arrowheads on Sunday afternoon with my Dad and brother back in the 50's. No telling how many my Dad found and placed where a little guy could trip over.
miles of cornrows, grid searching row by row in the 'hot spots', hours and hours on my feetsies.
I also fan out from hot spots and do wide open across field searches too. If the corn is ankle high, I can weave pependicular through the matrix. Mind you, these guys set their air drill rows at 30", so there's plenty of comfortable viewage as I step thru-, look left-look right-step again all in a fluid motion. It's amazing how fast the human eye and brain can process the scan. If I'm crosscutting, I cover quite a bit ground and can see about 25ft left and right. So about a 50ft swath as i step though. Because all I'm looking for is quick contrasting color of black flint against red clay or tan soil or the quick glint of light hitting a concoidial surface. If doing parallel grid walking, I can murder about 6 rows at a time on flanks at a steady pace. As the crop gets taller, the shadowing robs you of the keen ability to seperate information. However, an overcast day levels the playing field and one can see thru the stalk matrix again.
You also have to be studied in your endeavour. I try to understand how the landscapes might have looked 6,000 yrs ago. An understanding of geomorphology coupled with a hunch usually puts me where the stuff is.
I also don't spend tons of time discussing which handgun is best to carry in the shower. Laffin
I've put this up before but it deserves tot be seen. Friend of mine's G-grandpa found it when he was 17.
That is awesome!!
I do a lot of remodel work for a major art museum. They opened an American Indian gallery a few years ago, and THAT would fit right in. It's an art museum, so everything in there has to have some sort of art aspect to it, not just natural history or archeology. They would definitely use that with the bead work on it. Anyway,...very nice!
We find a lot of big grinding bowls in my neck of the woods.
A friend told me of a giant bowl unearthed in a local farmers field. When they unearthed it and rolled it over there was a human skull stuck in the center of it.
They apologized for disturbing the long resting soul and re buried it.
The corn is 3ft tall here now. I'm shut out of my spots for time being.
I have some tobacco fields I'm going to hit up soon before the mexican laborers start slappin that sucker-plucker oil on the Burley. They'll vacuum up the arrowheads and sell em at the flea markets. Fuggers
roundoak, you spurred me into getting out and looking again. Found a broken tip and a handful of chips. We've had some good rain the last month, so I may get out more, and see if anything else has worked up...
Not so much the spook, but the hair does stand up on the back of my neck sometimes at my 'springs' field. There is just tons of stuff there. Cannot take a step without seeing a handful of flakes and heat-treated chert.
The wind seems to make the cottonwoods rustle more than the perceived felt breeze.
I hunt artifacts almost exclusively solo. Could be the psyche. Can't help but think I am walking in a site that was occupied for thousands of years based on point type and by a large population, based on the sheer volume of items I have found there.
Would love the tear up jack out there with a Bobcat.
The women who ground cornmeal on this have been dust for hundreds of years.
I found it this morning, surfacing out of the edge of an arroyo next to one of our milo fields. I like to think the vermilion color of the seed heads comes from the vanished blood of ghostly buffalo......but then I probably spend too much time alone in open country. (Which would also explain why sometimes I think the original owners of lost objects lead you to them.)
A few odds and ends from the past couple of months. The preform on the right was found in the roots and debris of a basswood tree that had blown down. It is Hixton quartzite and is only found in Wisconsin at a ancient quarry site called Silver Mound. The quarry is about 125 miles north of where I found the preform.
Yeah all the old timers up country had metates in their rock gardens. You just don't see em like you used to. Good find Plainview! I there there are still several manos laying around here found will chasing hogs. If I can find them I'll get a pic.
Here's a piece that I pulled out of the dirt piled up from the trash pit on a farm owned by my family a couple of Thanksgivings ago. It looks like it has been worked some. No flint naturally occurring there, though Alibates Quarry is 120 or so miles away. Not sure what it is, but somebody carried a it a long way for the travel of that day and then it ended up several feet under ground for a while.
We are forecasted to receive an inch+ of rain over night. I'm planning to hit em up again tomorrow. That should melt more of the clods. More Muck duty.
Just find the water....creeks, rivers, or even where they used to be. Look over the high spots near the water and there were Indians there at some point.
been guiding a few damage season antelope hunters the last couple weeks. One of the places has an old spring that flows year round and never freezes. I think they'll let me poke around some, this spring.... The old tank has a couple goldfish in it........ The place has promise.....
Here is a nice spear point, and a piece of Indian jewelry. There is one hole in the jewelry, and you can see that there used to be another hole in it. I can imagine an Indian girl wearing this on a leather thong around her neck.
I found these in a plowed field along the Oconee River in central Georgia. Lots of pottery shards and flint chips in those fields.
Found this axe head in the same fields. It is almost perfect, looks like it got run over one time by a tractor.
Made it out for the first time this year. Everything was covered in dirt from all the melting snow for the most part. Didn't quite get skunked, but everything I found was broken...
Likely... I should have put something in there to show the size. Its really not any bigger then your finger nail. If it was complete I'd still be doing the happy dance...
If you like paleo stuff, I'll post this one again as my ability to hunt has been extremely sparse;
I found this one on private property next to Fort Lancaster out where the Live Oak Creek runs into the Pecos River. I was chasing a bunch of turkeys when I spotted it. Sorry for the rerun.
Triangular point down there is known among the collectors as a "tortuga" Point. They range all the way into north Texas. But very common in deep South part of state.
Paleo woman found by TxDOT archaeologist during extension of FM 1431 between Round Rock and Georgetown was found with a small obsidian chip buried with her. Test show it came from Washington state. She also has a small fossil sharks tooth that had been worked into a Possible piece of jewelry
I might find a small flake or two after a good rain, but I haven't been able to find a point or blade in years. I have been learning how to make a flint point to use deer hunting and have an all new respect for the people that made the originals. The level of skill to make some of these points y'all have found is amazing.
Here are a couple I made recently. The large point with the silver wire for a necklace is gong to be given to a fundraiser for a young lady that is going through a fight with cancer.
Found a good one today. I was only out today to pull out two deer stands. Took a walk for a few short minutes in one of the regular spots on drive out. They had just plowed it yesterday and sprayed pre-emergent herbicide. Total 'dirt-time' invested= 20 minutes.
It's gonna be a good spring, I can just feel it already.
Slow day, need rain. Had to make out 'shapes' rather than colors. Mainly discerning edges amongst the clods. Nice to pick up these two Eva points before that 60ft new holland air drill comes thru later in the week
Two Evas, 4000 BC Mid Archaic A re-worked blunt (hafted scraper) And assorted tips and pieces Large bi-facial tool. Heel or hide scraper possibly a hoe but seems out of chronological place if its a small hoe.
You did good slumlord! We put some hard miles on this weekend. I look at arrowhead hunting like coyote hunting. You're not successful every stand. That said, we did find a few worth picking up. Here's the best one of the weekend.
A few scrapers
Had to quit picking up chips or I would have had a bucket full
Slumlord and Cinch, those are great finds. A good day for me looking would be finding a few flakes. Just not much going on where I hunt.
That cool little whop-sided point that Cinch posted makes me feel a little better about my efforts at getting things even when I knapp. My brother thinks that it was intentional and made for opening boxes. Here are a couple from this past weekend. These are made from a piece of brown/black/smokey obsidian. Wish I had some more of this stuff.
6ft drop of 1/2 EMT, a rounded coat-hook, and 1/2 roll of electrical tape for a grip. Great for cruising 3 rows left-3 rows right and reaching wide, saves from so much 'step thru' when the corn begins to get knee-high.
Found a good one today. I was only out today to pull out two deer stands. Took a walk for a few short minutes in one of the regular spots on drive out. They had just plowed it yesterday and sprayed pre-emergent herbicide. Total 'dirt-time' invested= 20 minutes.
It's gonna be a good spring, I can just feel it already.
ya let me tell ya what he aint saying
we drive up on another friend and his indentured servant out their who gives this lying moron everything he finds
the lying moron is supposedly are doing other things that weekend and cant do his own dam stands let alone much of anything a 10 yr old county boy can do on his own (lazy mofo who don't like physical work)
basically a lying manipulating moron
me and slumlord take maybe 10 steps towards them 2 idiots he quickly bends down and picks up something and flashes it to me in his hand for like a second and a half before sticking it his pocket
I am like holy fugg!!!!!!!!!!!!!
then i start chuckling to myself about it cause it is poetic that he found that so quick
then I find some broken stuff wandering around looking
im walking by him at times begging him to let me put that Benton in my pocket and go over by the lying moron and say I found my 1st ever whole artifact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just to rub it in
I find some broke stuff slumlord gives me some broke stuff
I go over to the lying moron and show him what I found
he digs in his Charlie brown bag full of broken flakes and shrapnel and crap
the broke stuff I give to him is better than anything he has
then he starts telling me it is mostly luck and skill don't have alot to do with it
I say "man I hope I can find something whole one day and not all this broken worthless crap"
I go back around slumlord about 15 ft away and im like man you gotta let me stage that I found that intact Benton knife so I can go fugg with the simpletons minds
he wont go for it meanwhile slumlord is teaching me to look for shapes and straight edges and stuff the looks out of the norm
then slumlord goes out sunday with the lying moron
and finds more intact sticking out like a sore thumb quality stuff
completely surrounded by the lying moron and his indentured servants foot prints from Saturday
Found a good one today. I was only out today to pull out two deer stands. Took a walk for a few short minutes in one of the regular spots on drive out. They had just plowed it yesterday and sprayed pre-emergent herbicide. Total 'dirt-time' invested= 20 minutes.
It's gonna be a good spring, I can just feel it already.
Mehhhh, maybe not. Tell these nice folks how you got kicked out of your rock hunting honey hole. Give me a minute while I get some Jiffy Pop ready
corky found himself a couple of good ones so he's happy again and I'm back in the inner circle
still too 'cloddy' on the plain of Lost Lakes, I'm waiting for the air-drill and disc to come through and it will be game on.
my only concern will the fake fibroyalgia disability deadbeats who will be trespassing all week while I work to buy their mac-n-cheese and hot pockets.
funny how people claim a disability so bad they are unable to work a worky-job buy yet they can walk for 9 hours in a plowed field. Simply amazing.
anyway, I feel some explosive diarrhea coming on soon maybe long about Wednesday
I always left them behind but started bringing them home as well. I decided that they're usually too pretty to leave behind. The kids like picking through them too. They're finally getting old enough to show some interest in it.
These I found about 50 years ago. I haven't found a good one in a long time. The areas I hunt just don't lend themselves to finding much in the way of artifacts.
I found the two blades together. There was a third but it was broken.
I pulled several pics down yesterday because no one seemingly gives a fugg about this thread anymore, 5 hours no props, and then gets invaded by a troll
they are more interested in viewing pics of a stack of dirty dishes and roast beef sandwich. So piss on em
and I had some good chit too I picked up last few days
Very nice! Used to look for artifacts when I was a youngster along the Missouri River. There are some where I live now and I look whenever I am out. Haven't found anything nice for a long while. Some of you like slumlord live in some terrific territory for the hobby.
I pulled several pics down yesterday because no one seemingly gives a fugg about this thread anymore, 5 hours no props, and then gets invaded by a troll
they are more interested in viewing pics of a stack of dirty dishes and roast beef sandwich. So piss on em
and I had some good chit too I picked up last few days
put em up man
I will look at em
don't stress the people who have to eat out all the time cause their yoko ono haggard looking ole lady is too lazy to cook a bag of ramen
they are the ones taking a 30-50 dollar shyt the next morning all the time
I pulled several pics down yesterday because no one seemingly gives a fugg about this thread anymore, 5 hours no props, and then gets invaded by a troll
they are more interested in viewing pics of a stack of dirty dishes and roast beef sandwich. So piss on em
and I had some good chit too I picked up last few days
I pulled several pics down yesterday because no one seemingly gives a fugg about this thread anymore, 5 hours no props, and then gets invaded by a troll
they are more interested in viewing pics of a stack of dirty dishes and roast beef sandwich. So piss on em
and I had some good chit too I picked up last few days
Cry me a damn river, nobody commented on the pictures of your rocks. Maybe if you hadn't of came on this site being such a prick they would get the attention you crave so badly. I dare to say that 75% of the population has you and your band of merry asshats on ignore, especially the one that says HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! all the damn time. Is that Mfer mentally challenged? Anyway, keep spending all your spare time looking for those rocks out on ole assboil boys place. Im enjoying spending "Quality" time with Mrs. Stovepipe. That's the best $7,500 you ever spent BTW, I'm getting your moneys worth for you.
Btw for now, I'm not able to post the bucket full of tools, brokes, scrapers that I picked up. i'll have to get all that spread out on a couple different sheets of plywood
Anyway for now, I'll post some of Sat thru Wednesday stuff
I could find more out here on the Frio River if I did some plowing. A kid down at the lumberyard had 4 incredible points. Practically identical laying side by side in a row, as though the maker didn't come back from his mission that time.
That is a bevy of beauties! Any idea of the tribe/people who made them?
I wouldn't define any of this as tribal. This is mid archaic stuff about 3500BC TO 6000BC
eva peoples, benton, big sandy, lost lake and more and all on the same ground. This is a multi-component site with even some more recent occupation (with the very small 'birdie') which might date to 1000 AD.
This was a site people picked due to a possible prairie environment and eastern buffalo and elk range. There are a cluster of large order springs within the property AND an abundance of St.Genevieve limestone chert nodules and cobbles in the stream nearby. So this was also probably a 'workshop' site too.
That is a bevy of beauties! Any idea of the tribe/people who made them?
I wouldn't define any of this as tribal. This is mid archaic stuff about 3500BC TO 6000BC
eva peoples, benton, big sandy, lost lake and more and all on the same ground. This is a multi-component site with even some more recent occupation (with the very small 'birdie') which might date to 1000 AD.
This was a site people picked due to a possible prairie environment and eastern buffalo and elk range. There are a cluster of large order springs within the property AND an abundance of St.Genevieve limestone chert nodules and cobbles in the stream nearby. So this was also probably a 'workshop' site too.
I'm still working on it. We were quick to think at first it had a Lost Lake flair to it. However it certainly does not have the beveled left edge flaking. It's worked equally on all edge surfaces.
It's still needle sharp and retains the edge of a serrated steak knife. I found this mixed in with a lot of field rock and red clay. I'm surprised it only has the barbed ears nipped off. The breaks on the barbs, the patina matches the parent surface. I'm thinking this went into an animal, the ears broke as it pushed thru some ribs and the animal ran off and was possibly unrecovered. Thus the reasoning the point was found on a slight rise with 50 yards of the stream.
No was no other debitage in this area, I was only taking a shortcut back to my vehicle.
I have 2 other associates scratching their head over this piece.
That thing is uber cool! I am green with envy about your hunting sites. So much grass and brush here it is tough to see. Not much plowing here. Any pointers you care to share? I have found lots of chips but not much else in WY. Not far from Spannish Diggings site..
Today was yet another good in the dirt. Hit the rows at 7:45am, left at 6pm. Not as far as spectacular but more in regards to numbers. It is becoming picked over so that was a 'gleaning' effort.
Probably walked 10 miles today worth of rows. oh well it's what I want to do. Renegade50 joined along as an extra mosquito decoy
Btw for now, I'm not able to post the bucket full of tools, brokes, scrapers that I picked up. i'll have to get all that spread out on a couple different sheets of plywood
Anyway for now, I'll post some of Sat thru Wednesday stuff
Nice points Slumlord! The one beside the water bottle looks like a Greenbriar to me.
I've never found any points but these are fairly common near where I live. This one is on Horseshoe Canyon, Utah, a few miles downstream of where Aron Ralston cut his arm off to free himself.
Took a few minutes to lay out some of the better pieces the last few weeks altogether. Only few that are not in the pic are 5 other points I found wednesday afternoon, they are at my work.
You anywhere near Old Hickery ? My grandfathers farm was near there, I have a cigar box full of points my father and uncles found plowing behind a mule! most all were found in one field. as a kid we wanted to go look for points but my grandfather had sold that plot and the new owner wouldnt let anybody on it! farm sold back in 1976 and havent been back.
Took a few minutes to lay out some of the better pieces the last few weeks altogether. Only few that are not in the pic are 5 other points I found wednesday afternoon, they are at my work.
Slumlord offered a possible Lost Lake point. I'll take a stab at it. It struck me as a heavily resharpened Kirk Corner Notch. Next step would grind notch and base and use as a drill.
I thought he cut his arm off up by St. Mary's Glacier?....
I remember reading about that one. Aron Ralston was/is an accident waiting to happen. I'm sure we'll hear about his "accidental" death sometime in our lifetimes.
slumlord you are finding some beautiful points. I found quite a few nice points, and an axe head, along the Oconee River when I used to live in central Georgia.
Now I live up in the NC mountains, haven't found a single point or pottery shard up here.
I pulled several pics down yesterday because no one seemingly gives a fugg about this thread anymore, 5 hours no props, and then gets invaded by a troll
they are more interested in viewing pics of a stack of dirty dishes and roast beef sandwich. So piss on em
and I had some good chit too I picked up last few days
Cry me a damn river, nobody commented on the pictures of your rocks. Maybe if you hadn't of came on this site being such a prick they would get the attention you crave so badly. I dare to say that 75% of the population has you and your band of merry asshats on ignore, especially the one that says HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! all the damn time. Is that Mfer mentally challenged? Anyway, keep spending all your spare time looking for those rocks out on ole assboil boys place. Im enjoying spending "Quality" time with Mrs. Stovepipe. That's the best $7,500 you ever spent BTW, I'm getting your moneys worth for you.
slumlord you are finding some beautiful points. I found quite a few nice points, and an axe head, along the Oconee River when I used to live in central Georgia.
Now I live up in the NC mountains, haven't found a single point or pottery shard up here.
I found a quartz arrowhead up a mountain a mountain road in Swannanoa, NC. stopped to take a leak and there it was.
I find a lot of stuff like that.
stepped into a hog gut pile o-dark-thirty with renegade50, found a big nice scraper while smearing the good off my mucks.
found an 8" ceremonial Copena ovate knife sticking out of dirt bank while making a u-turn in the middle of the road one time.
there's a lot going on at the subconscious aside from luck, if you've programmed your mind to be attuned to more than one task. I guess it's like glancing at a newspaper and one single word out of thousand catches your eye and then you spend 3 minutes looking for it again at the conscious level. That happens to me often.
same with processing 9 corn rows of dirt at a fast pace for that one rock with a 1/4" square surface area of conchoidal fracturing. It just jumps out in a millisecond.Sure, I know I'm missing stuff but.... Luck helps too.
You anywhere near Old Hickery ? My grandfathers farm was near there, I have a cigar box full of points my father and uncles found plowing behind a mule! most all were found in one field. as a kid we wanted to go look for points but my grandfather had sold that plot and the new owner wouldnt let anybody on it! farm sold back in 1976 and havent been back.
That thing is uber cool! I am green with envy about your hunting sites. So much grass and brush here it is tough to see. Not much plowing here. Any pointers you care to share? I have found lots of chips but not much else in WY. Not far from Spannish Diggings site..
start with areas near (within 1/2 mile) of any two streams that Y-together.
start with any elevated benches above the flood plain
if you cannot find plowed ground, try construction sites- next try any river bank. Requires a lot of walking.
That thing is uber cool! I am green with envy about your hunting sites. So much grass and brush here it is tough to see. Not much plowing here. Any pointers you care to share? I have found lots of chips but not much else in WY. Not far from Spannish Diggings site..
start with areas near (within 1/2 mile) of any two streams that Y-together.
start with any elevated benches above the flood plain
if you cannot find plowed ground, try construction sites- next try any river bank. Requires a lot of walking.
it's so moving to see you 2 have swapped BJ's and have made up. I guess Scumlord must have finally made a generous donation to your rifles for REMF projects so he could earn your acceptance. Don't let him fool you, he didn't find all that stuff. He's 450# on the hoof and ate up with the diabeetus and gout. He never leaves his grannies basement.
Hit it again today, 1.8 on the rain gauge so I walked it again for a short trip about 3 hours. A 'spot' within a spot that the local meth moufs ain't laid footprints down on yet. Some pieces right on top of the ground.
The usual, preforms, uniface and biface scrapers, broken square knives, kirk and big sandy represented with other variations, flakes, and a blue crinoid fossil.
This is the second 'liberated' crinoid fossil I have found in this open field; adds weight to my workshop hypothesis. Possibly as the chert nodules were plucked from the limestone, they encountered these fossils too. I have a red crinoid fossil that is polished. Helps explain the out of context 300 million y.o. fossils mixed into surface distribution of flint flakes, nods and broken artifacts. Anyway
Yeah, I don't have the luxuries of being retired, or being an unemployed meth smoker or a well-kept leach milking a long term disability over a feigned illness, as it is with many other arrowhead walkers. I have been eeking out short runs in the afternoons in the long shadows after work. Or burning a coveted Saturday when I should really be mowing grass.
It sucks heading to sites only see one of the regulars leaving for day. One guy in particular, tall, creepy, thin, rat-like features with coke bottle glasses, buck teeth about mid 40s and rides a bicycle with a banana seat. A small frame bike like you see an 8 yr old boy riding. He's been laying down a lot of bootprints in fields he doesn't have permission in. I'm sure he another of the special people that gets a full ride and nice $1500 check for being a registered dumbass. I speculate he sells what he finds. I despise those types even more.
So getting permission to look for arrowheads where you're at is about as tough as getting permission to hunt game throughout the rest of the U.S..?
yes! lots of cockblockers out there. It's always "If I let you then I gotta let the next 10 people" or "I don't want no riff-raff moochin off my property" or "my nephew picks them thangs up"
which is all understandable, mainly is that so many flint hunters are tweakers (meth heads) that do it full time and strictly sell all their finds to collectors to fund their continued meth addiction. I wouldn't want those types on my land either.
However, I am fortunate, I have overlapping permission. On the main 1400 acres I visit, the owner is a co-worker and a deer hunting buddy.
the large scale farmer that leases my buddy's tillable acreage knows we both hunt artifacts AND he knows we are respectful to his row crop plantings, (obviously) my buddy gets a percentage of the proceeds from the crop sale as a bonus dividend.
....so the farm lease operator also grows corn, wheat, and late beans on 18,000 other acres in various rotations and about 11,000 acres of that he is the actual owner. He has no reservations allowing permission for us onto his other properties.
However, he is very busy guy and there are a troop of other freelancers that just parade out onto his holdings. He just doesn't enforce any restrictions, nor has time to keep after strays. He only gets worked up over people in ATVs or mud boggers zipping across fields.
He's smart enough to know that he himself trashes more with HighBoy spraying vs any occasional stompings of one-man meth head trespasser.
But generally with most other people, like say someone with 50 acres, you'd think you were asking for a kidney just for seeking permission to hunt flint. Most Tennesseans are dikkheads.They think that rusted out skeleton of a 65 mustang is worth $20,000 if you stop and ask bubba about selling it. Thank you American Pickers.
I see you guys have been busy of late, so I thought I'd add another image of some of my knock offs. A quarter for scale.
Again tons of obsidian on our property, so it turns out this is the only cheap hobby I've ever been able to pursue. Great for clearing the mind of all concerns as one has to concentrate solely on the rock in hand.
That thing is uber cool! I am green with envy about your hunting sites. So much grass and brush here it is tough to see. Not much plowing here. Any pointers you care to share? I have found lots of chips but not much else in WY. Not far from Spannish Diggings site..
start with areas near (within 1/2 mile) of any two streams that Y-together.
start with any elevated benches above the flood plain
if you cannot find plowed ground, try construction sites- next try any river bank. Requires a lot of walking.
it's so moving to see you 2 have swapped BJ's and have made up. I guess Scumlord must have finally made a generous donation to your rifles for REMF projects so he could earn your acceptance. Don't let him fool you, he didn't find all that stuff. He's 450# on the hoof and ate up with the diabeetus and gout. He never leaves his grannies basement.
you are a dik you must be allisonxtb or one of his other sock puppets
renegade50: When I lived back east the best hunting seemed to be farmed riverside bottom lands and maybe fields on the first terraces above flood levels. Some nearby and dependable cold water springs were also a good draw. Good luck,
me and slumlord walk all over the areas dude can be 8ft from me and see something 12 feet away whip out his iphone in camera mode I mark my spot with my stick and walk over
and bam!!!!!!! something killer is their!!!!!
he has been schooling me up pretty good actually ,I just gotta get a better eye for the little exposed detail stuff instead of looking for the obvious sticking out like a sore thumb things
what you describe is basically the terrain we stomp
fugger has me addicted to looking for rocks now
I find myself when im out turkey or deer hunting looking at the ground at times when moving instead of paying attention to the woodline a lot of times
I wanna find a whole one and add it to my turkey spur necklace and suspend it under or over the wingbone call I have on it now, just some crazy idea I have driving me bonkers right now
I see you guys have been busy of late, so I thought I'd add another image of some of my knock offs. A quarter for scale.
Again tons of obsidian on our property, so it turns out this is the only cheap hobby I've ever been able to pursue. Great for clearing the mind of all concerns as one has to concentrate solely on the rock in hand.
1minute, you are showing a lot of skill there! I'm working off and on trying to teach myself to knap. I've gotten better but I'm not where I want to be yet. You are right about it being great for clearing the mind. Lose concentration for even a few seconds and you could have a much shorter point than you intended.
I tried a new strategy in my search. Usually most of us that hunt these things focus on likely camps or possible gathering areas. Sure we can find stuff there.
Well, lately I have working likely ambush scenarios out in my head. There happens to be a larger order spring and cluster complex of karst windowing with 'satellite springs' all within about a 20 acre patch of woods.
I have began to try and conceptualize likely game and hunter interactions surrounding this watering hole complex. I have no idea what the ground cover was like 8,000 years ago (5000 for Baptists). I can possibly assume that natives used a current ditchline as an ambush concealment feature to stage from as elk or bison or deer followed the gentle contour down to the water.
I also assumed that atl-atl throwers were possibly skilled out to 50yards at a baseline hypothesis. I didn't bother with wider parameters or streambed undulations of the current ditchlines.
In short, there is a hot zone about 100ft to 200ft parallel to the ditch line where I am finding many intact points and spear heads.
These large order springs would've been a major draw during the post-glacial Antithermal climatic optimum. Conditions may have been given to much warmer and drier weather than even today.
At the usual camp areas, mostly broke stuff, as if broken while being knapped.
A broken Big Sandy or Kirk will often get re-purposed at a hafted scraper. Many number of uses. Doubtfully used at a "blunt" as many often suggest.
A handy tool to have, scraping, peeling, chipping, edged spooning tool. That edge is actually been resharpened down by precise flaking and then ground. It's got a very sharp edge still.
Makes me wonder how many Indians said "BS! I'm not making my own arrowheads! I'll just walk the fields."
And then there are some people that say "BS! I don't have a single piece of flint showing on the whole property, I'll just make some of my own!" And then they spend a couple of hours on a saturday afternoon, without much else going on, knocking out a few...Except for the large point most of these will likely get hunted with this fall.
Makes me wonder how many Indians said "BS! I'm not making my own arrowheads! I'll just walk the fields."
And then there are some people that say "BS! I don't have a single piece of flint showing on the whole property, I'll just make some of my own!" And then they spend a couple of hours on a saturday afternoon, without much else going on, knocking out a few...Except for the large point most of these will likely get hunted with this fall.
This is the kind of point that breaks your heart. Firstview, would have been a 10+ had it not been broken :(:(:( The edges are micro-flaked and feel just like a hacksaw blade. Out of the many heads I have found, this one is absolutely a work of art. I had to dig it out of a creek bank, and held my breath the whole time, not knowing what was going to come out of the clay. It was so hard, I had to use a hammer and a screwdriver. It was about 4ft down from the surface. Lots of Paleo in the small area where I found this. Love this thread.
This is the kind of point that breaks your heart. Firstview, would have been a 10+ had it not been broken :(:(:( The edges are micro-flaked and feel just like a hacksaw blade. Out of the many heads I have found, this one is absolutely a work of art. I had to dig it out of a creek bank, and held my breath the whole time, not knowing what was going to come out of the clay. It was so hard, I had to use a hammer and a screwdriver. It was about 4ft down from the surface. Lots of Paleo in the small area where I found this. Love this thread.
Old gunsmith! Dads Clovis came out of a creek there when he was digging topaz. Well it's the bottom portion. You are right!!! That county reeks of paleo stuff!!
The small arrow point at the top is quartz crystal, a Catan. Could be as late as 300yr BP. The bottom is a Plainview, late Paleo. Could date back as far as 11,500 yr BP. Came out of the same campsite. This campsite has been occupied for thousands of years, its just above a spring, and only covers a couple of acres. I'm three feet down and still finding points. Have uncovered around 35 campfires.
Have often wondered why so many points in such a small area ?? Perhaps warring between tribes?? As one ran out, another took their place .... manos by the dozens. The few metates I have found are broken. Looks like this little spot will last me the rest of my Life.
I know Mr. Shearer had one out of quartzite, I called him when I found this one, and he made me come to his house right away. He asked me how clear it was, and I told him it was clear enough to read a newspaper through it !! He was waiting outside when I got there. That man truly loved artifacts :):):):) I sure miss him.
A friend of mine named this my "Spirit Garden" it holds all manner of broken heads and quarry blanks.
Dad had a dart point made out of a piece of quartzite. I believe it came out of a midden in Bell county. It was a rough point!
Nice garden. I had two or three manos laying around here. Dunno what happened to them. I always heard the old story that when a woman died they broke her mano. Dunno who came up with that one.
Oh! Archaeologist son was telling me about a find the other day. I think it was on a state project. Wasn't their firm. Archaic period find. Said they found a child's burial. Had a young bobcat ( little Bigger than a kitten) buried with it. Bobcat had a small stone amulet around its neck.
Dad had a dart point made out of a piece of quartzite. I believe it came out of a midden in Bell county. It was a rough point!
Nice garden. I had two or three manos laying around here. Dunno what happened to them. I always heard the old story that when a woman died they broke her mano. Dunno who came up with that one.
Oh! Archaeologist son was telling me about a find the other day. I think it was on a state project. Wasn't their firm. Archaic period find. Said they found a child's burial. Had a young bobcat ( little Bigger than a kitten) buried with it. Bobcat had a small stone amulet around its neck.
Pretty neat!
Sadly the really interesting discoveries that are well documented are lost to public view. Stories and artifacts like that ought to be shared.
Chances are these days the remains will be reinterred. It was a mitigation project so generally that may be the case.
Edit. The story will be shared. It will come out in an official report that has to be written on the project. Generally these reports are available for public sales. They can be purchased thru the custodial agency printing service. Like TxDOT, TP &W, or Texas Historical Commission.
Additional edit; these reports are pretty dry reading.
Not my find, but I guess its time for this. Was in the local paper years ago, and I found it fascinating. It was found close to Screaming Woman Creek. They named it that for a very good reason.
I was knee high to a duck when my dad and grandad found this in the late '60s - early '70s when they were building our family cabin in Boone NC. As a kid, I always thought it to be a tomahawk head but now think it was some sort of hand tool or fleshing tool. It is very smooth so likely spent a lot of time in a hand.
This is the kind of point that breaks your heart. Firstview, would have been a 10+ had it not been broken :(:(:( The edges are micro-flaked and feel just like a hacksaw blade. Out of the many heads I have found, this one is absolutely a work of art. I had to dig it out of a creek bank, and held my breath the whole time, not knowing what was going to come out of the clay. It was so hard, I had to use a hammer and a screwdriver. It was about 4ft down from the surface. Lots of Paleo in the small area where I found this. Love this thread.
Beautiful work on that one! One day I hope to be able to come close to that level of work, but I'm a ways from there now. I hope you guys keep finding and posting these points. Love this thread and always look for it.
I was knee high to a duck when my dad and grandad found this in the late '60s - early '70s when they were building our family cabin in Boone NC. As a kid, I always thought it to be a tomahawk head but now think it was some sort of hand tool or fleshing tool. It is very smooth so likely spent a lot of time in a hand.
It looks like a celt to me. Kind of an un grooved axe.
I was knee high to a duck when my dad and grandad found this in the late '60s - early '70s when they were building our family cabin in Boone NC. As a kid, I always thought it to be a tomahawk head but now think it was some sort of hand tool or fleshing tool. It is very smooth so likely spent a lot of time in a hand.
It looks like a celt to me. Kind of an un grooved axe.
I believe you're right. I had never heard of a celt so I googled it and it does look right, so I guess my initial thought of what it was was pretty close. thanx!
Here are a few more points from this campsite--- don't know how many I have found at this site, they just keep coming !!! Find about 15 broken ones for every complete point. My wife always knows I have something good when I tell her to open her hand and close her eyes. Some she lays claim to, and are never seen again :):):):)
I found this one about a month ago, after a little rain. Gave it to a young lady who is just starting her "hunting" career with the flaked rocks :):):):) Seeing her excitement was definitely worth the giving !!
I found this one about a month ago, after a little rain. Gave it to a young lady who is just starting her "hunting" career with the flaked rocks :):):):) Seeing her excitement was definitely worth the giving !!
Great diversification "Oldgunsmith". Hope I never get to old to hunt points. Still a thrill to find even a less than perfect point. Have the first one I found at age six and remember exactly where I found it. Hardin point perfect 2/3's, now if I could go back and find the tip. GW
Found this nice little scraper sticking out of the bank of the Colorado River at the Ranch after all the heavy rain. Or I guess it could be a small knife??? It has a really fine edge that is very sharp!
My brother found this sharpened off welk shell in a firebreak where he often finds arrowheads and flint flakes. His farm is probably 50 miles from the coast. Anybody have an idea what this kind of artifact might be or what it would have been used for? I've never seen anything like this so far from the coast.
Likely used as a punch/awl to make holes in wood/leather would be my best guess. Awl's found here in the midwest are made from chert/flint/ bone. Bone ones are only found in dry caves. Some strange stone/ bone/ shell tools show up. Have a hard stone tool that likely used for a thimble/ hole punch receiver. Friend found it and gave it to me, never seen another like it. GW
I kind of figured it was something like that. It didn't look like it had any provisions for mounting it on anything and the back end was almost flat across. Unusual find for around here. I have seen a large welk shell with a hole in the side for mounting on a stick for use as a hoe, but it was found on St Simmons Island where you might expect the Native Americans to be using shells as tools.
Been stumbling through the rows, have many more already uploaded and batched for posting but I don't want to hog the bandwidth.
Still have the typical crop of pill heads and disability fakers and ptsd'rs beating me out to my spots and they don't have permission. Can't run em off if I'm at work.
Look at you dad, boosting your post count by putting each picture in a separate post. Pretty soon you will have as many posts as Ruger and Lade. Where is the rest of your misfits at anyway? Later CH
This thread got me all worked up, and I had to get out to the campsite today !! It amazes me, that Indians have been using this campsite for 15,000 years. The small point is a Jetta, it dates back from 5000 to 8000 years. Found the mano today, and half of a metate. Have never found one intact yet. At the top is a nice round scraper, to the left of the mano, is a thumb scraper. Seems like this campsite is going to just keep on giving. I am quite thankful for our recent rains that have uncovered these latest finds. Always find lots of finishing flakes, usually don't bring them to the house, they tend to take over !!!! Although, I do have a Spirit Garden in my front yard that has hundreds of artifacts in it. I love it so.
I have sorted out the last 2 years worth of brokes, crudes and flakes. Just kept the best of the best.
All of these reject pieces are being eliminated. I have been having an on-going problem with a few trespassers invading my spots while I'm out working to pay their bills. Meth heads, drunks, disability fakers and I even have one questionable 'wounded warrior' dude out there with his fuggin 'therapy dog' all putting down footprints.
All this crap I will seed one key area they always frequent. This should keep them busy for several years. I will just have to sacrifice that spot for a while.
been a slow spring, here's the last 3-4 outings total
Anyone know what the two peanut shaped stones in the top of the photo were used for? GW
Curious about that myself. We have one very similar to those pictured somewhere around the house. Believe either our son found it on one of his metal detecting excursions or maybe a grandson found it and gave it to his grandmother. Wondering if maybe it was used as a weight for a net or line fishing or maybe a childs toy doll effigy?
I went out today and hit it again. I'll post up more pics tonight when I can get everything scrubbed up.
Working full time, and doing 9 hours of peritoneal dialysis EVERY night is wearing me out and chewing into my artifact exploits. Better than sitting around wailing and gnashing ones teeth over Cruz dropping out. Hahaha! Fugg all that chit.
The peanut shaped rocks, geologically- they are limestone/chert concretions.
To find them 'high n dry' in a silty-loam field, they are far removed from their native stratigraphy. So I wonder too what their significance is lying strewn about an area of debitage and worked pieces. Shrugs...
My brother and I took my 98 year old Mom out this afternoon after lunch to look for arrowheads. She rode in a Gator ATV. I wanted to get her on the back of a Honda 4-wheeler, but didn't get much support for the idea. I think she would have been fine. I don't think that anybody that knows her would be surprised at all.
Once we got to what we think was an old camp site, she was ready to get out and start looking for arrowheads. After a few steps and bending over countless times to look at oak leaves and quartz rocks, Mom had abandoned her walker and picked up the shaft of a golf club with a nail stuck in the end that someone had left at the site. She was poking every rock and leaf in site saying, "is that one". After about 10 or 15 minutes dang if she didn't find the back half of an arrowhead. I couldn't get it away from her to take a picture of it and when we dropped her off at home she was still clutching it in her hand.
Some days are just better than others and this was one of them…
Last good day in the field for me for a while. Honestly thought this thread and its contents and my contributions would get more appreciation. But oh well fugg it, I realize the main type of people on this forum now. Bunch of do-nothing retired people who have had their balls surgically removed.
Glad to see Mathsr your 98 year old loved one is still able to get out. She must have 100x more drive than 19,000 members of this forum. Aka the the cut-n-paste Hannity jockeys.
Anyway for few that do look: this point was found by partner. He views this post, he will claim it.
You did VERY good as usual! Still waiting on good weather to fall on my days off here... Made a few day trips, but I'll have some 3-4 day trips in the near future. Gotta week long prairie dog shoot in ND with some friends coming up real soon... After that it's game on until hunting season!
I have never waited to pick up a point so that I could get a picture of it. It just wouldn't occur to me at all… I guess growing up with a twin brother and fighting, more often than not, for what we got trained me to grab it and look for what ever is next.
Drug my nuts out and found a few recently. (haven't been castrated) I guess my eyes haven't failed me, as I find a few of these tiny arrow points. The two larger of the three are dart points. But I'm sure all of ya'll know that. Anyway, this is a fun thread. Nothing much better than hunting arrowheads. All the ones I have shown come off of my own property, so I don't have to jack with trespassers, thank God !!! All of them have come off of a campsite that is about 2 acres in size.
Don't think I'll be here in 24 years, but I hope my kids would take me out hunting when I was 98 !!! Love to hear your Mother made her find. Good on you !!!!
Wish I could have got her on that 4X4 with a grandson driving. That would have been a picture worth posting! She used to take my brothers and me arrow head hunting when we were little. She probably hasn't been in close to 55 years.
I showed her the pictures of the points y'all are finding and posting here and she got excited and wanted to know about each point.
When we took her home she had dirt all over her pants and a pocket full of flint.
I'll try to keep this thread alive, but soon the corn in my row-crops sites will be too tall and crowding.
I invested much more of my search time this spring field truthing a hypothesis upon a few different sites that could have been either kill-process camps or ambush sites.
Actually foregoing the regular hot spots along what we deem as 'the river site'. We searched around several sinkhole basins, two are actually ponded up. Around these places (which is a 3/4 mile from the main camp), we pinpointed these new searching grounds. The payoff was dead on! These basins we most likely mud wallers and watering holes for large game.
The key is to not park within 1/2 mile of the site to not alert the pillheads. Even so far as to wear light, drab or khaki clothing the match the dirt way out across the hillsides. We can usually hear the pillheads coming. Small, POS car or s-10 with no muffler, most pillheads drive chevys. Lol
Found a nice Frio point last March on our annual Hog hunt in south Llano county . I gave it to the rancher so he could "hide" it where his wife would find it!!! She loves to hunt them points. And gets so excited when she finds one! They are both damn good folks!!!!
The richest artifact site I have ever seen is between two rivers on a triangle shaped piece of ground that is maybe 40 acres in size. My father farmed it during the Depression and knew it was full of artifacts. We found everything from stone bowls to arrowheads made from the old iron wagon wheel hoops. Over the years we had probably taken out a pick-up box of really neat stuff and twice that much junk. A guy bought the place and would not allow anyone near it...common opinion was that he was growing pot on parts of it. He died and his kin sold it to a developer who put a go-cart track and trailer park on it.
I look forward to this form! Slumlord I have a cigar box full of points and knives just like the ones you have found, but mine were found by my father and 2 uncles 65-80 years ago in Tenn. while plowing behind a mule! thye would find a few things every spring, even have a 4 sided knife, by the time i was old enough to want to look for them my Grandfather had sold off part of the farm, and that was the spot that they used to find the points. Farm was about 8-10 miles out side of Dickson Tenn.
I look forward to this form! Slumlord I have a cigar box full of points and knives just like the ones you have found, but mine were found by my father and 2 uncles 65-80 years ago in Tenn. while plowing behind a mule! thye would find a few things every spring, even have a 4 sided knife, by the time i was old enough to want to look for them my Grandfather had sold off part of the farm, and that was the spot that they used to find the points. Farm was about 8-10 miles out side of Dickson Tenn.
i'm about 30 miles from Dickson. There's a lot of "Indian stuff" around here. Old stuff!!
Has anyone taken the time to string one up to see how difficult it would have been to hit a target. Just curious. Cool pics, refreshing change from politics.
This broken point is not much but the location was interesting.
I was walking the crest of the Sangre dr Cristo range above treeline and noticed a low saddle that formed a dip in the ridge. It was low enough to have some trees and game trails that funneled over that low spot from either side. It was an obvious locations for a hunter and looks to have been hunted for centuries.
When I was a kid, my father would take me out "arrow heading". Being a stone cutter by trade, I have a great appreciation for this stuff. These Indians were real craftsmen. I wish I had time to hunt for them, but haven't been out looking since I was a teenager. I miss it.
My father passed away back in February and we just finished clearing out all of the stuff from the house and I grabbed this off of the wall. It was missing the point all the way to the right. So I started digging through a box of nick knacks and found a small point to replace the missing one.
Before I did that, my wife gave this piece to me for my birthday to replace it. She bought it on line and was under the impression that it was ancient, but it's new. When I told her that, she looked back on the website and confirmed that it's a reproduction. But the guy who made it is an artist IMHO.
I've got a hammer head at home. I'll take a picture of it and post it tomorrow.
And here's my last of the last that was in Sunday's pouch. Everything is all scrubbed up and put away. Got some major surgery tomorrow so I'm done for as far as May goes.
Second piece of "Indian jewelry" I have found. It's called a gorget and this one is quartz crystal. Very clear. The workmanship is beautiful.
This last shot is of the thickness, which is about 3/8". The photo makes it look rough, but it is actually very smooth around the outer edge. I'll never know how they flaked a material as hard as quartz this perfectly.
It's not an Indian Artifact, but it's pretty cool and I thought you guys might appreciate it. It's a piece of Pennsylvania Flagstone my father found in the stone yard about 60 years ago. It's about 12" tall.
I have sorted out the last 2 years worth of brokes, crudes and flakes. Just kept the best of the best.
All of these reject pieces are being eliminated. I have been having an on-going problem with a few trespassers invading my spots while I'm out working to pay their bills. Meth heads, drunks, disability fakers and I even have one questionable 'wounded warrior' dude out there with his fuggin 'therapy dog' all putting down footprints.
All this crap I will seed one key area they always frequent. This should keep them busy for several years. I will just have to sacrifice that spot for a while.
Last good day in the field for me for a while. Honestly thought this thread and its contents and my contributions would get more appreciation. But oh well fugg it, I realize the main type of people on this forum now. Bunch of do-nothing retired people who have had their balls surgically removed.
Glad to see Mathsr your 98 year old loved one is still able to get out. She must have 100x more drive than 19,000 members of this forum. Aka the the cut-n-paste Hannity jockeys.
Anyway for few that do look: this point was found by partner. He views this post, he will claim it.
bout chit myself when I came across this had a slightly broke stem fugg..... wish I had a pic of my little bear creek spearpoint I found earlier this year
Drug my nuts out and found a few recently. (haven't been castrated) I guess my eyes haven't failed me, as I find a few of these tiny arrow points. The two larger of the three are dart points. But I'm sure all of ya'll know that. Anyway, this is a fun thread. Nothing much better than hunting arrowheads. All the ones I have shown come off of my own property, so I don't have to jack with trespassers, thank God !!! All of them have come off of a campsite that is about 2 acres in size.
Don't think I'll be here in 24 years, but I hope my kids would take me out hunting when I was 98 !!! Love to hear your Mother made her find. Good on you !!!!
nice finds!!!!
I need to get something other than my frigging flip phone and get some pics on here
I'll try to keep this thread alive, but soon the corn in my row-crops sites will be too tall and crowding.
I invested much more of my search time this spring field truthing a hypothesis upon a few different sites that could have been either kill-process camps or ambush sites.
Actually foregoing the regular hot spots along what we deem as 'the river site'. We searched around several sinkhole basins, two are actually ponded up. Around these places (which is a 3/4 mile from the main camp), we pinpointed these new searching grounds. The payoff was dead on! These basins we most likely mud wallers and watering holes for large game.
The key is to not park within 1/2 mile of the site to not alert the pillheads. Even so far as to wear light, drab or khaki clothing the match the dirt way out across the hillsides. We can usually hear the pillheads coming. Small, POS car or s-10 with no muffler, most pillheads drive chevys. Lol
fuggers scumbillie underground arrowhead market and it all can be seen on the internet
I just hope our spots don't get found out
have had some great payoff looking at terrain and doing boxed out probe walks
hell I found one spot getting outta my truck on way to afield to take a piss 15 ft away
hope they finish the work on the tobacco field behind the house soon that place has been giving up some good stuff and it still is in watermelon sized clods inplaces
Small possible paleo ( found by my bud renegade50) he found this yesterday a gifted it to me.
Will post more in a couple hours. Theyre still in the mud bucket.
I have looked at about a millionsix websites and I am completely convinced that is a clovis it is almost 2 inches long and on the smaller end of clovis size
rick has been dealing with a kidney transplant loomimg on him for years his wife is his donor yesterday it all happened and I wish him and his wife a complete recovery
the night before I found this I was telling myself fugg I don't know if I want to go turkey hunting or arrowhead hunting tomorrow
said fugg it when I get up I will decide
got up made a cup of coffee got my smokes went out side and said to myself im going arrowhead hunting and if I find a clovis ,Cumberland or folsom(all holy grail points) I will give it to rick as a gift or i will just give him the best thing I find
didn't really dawn on me when I found it didn't connect the bullet shape, the concave base, or the fluted sides got it home cleaned it up and im like this thing is fugging fluted??? wtf??? but I always thought clovis points was a lot bigger
sent rick a pic of my finds he calls me up says hey I wanta look at that point cause it looks paleo he was about a mile away comes over we check it out I say it was the best point I found today and its yours as a gift
he was kinda speechless at first
I said it yours man research it up
I got on my kids laptoplater on and sure as chit it has to be a clovis fugging dead ringer
I have seen a lot pics that are exactly the same size and shape on the web that say clovis or folsom
most say clovis
im glad I was able to give my friend who got me into this hobby 2yrs ago a 100% pristine paleo point for a gift prior to his operation
get well rick!!! we got deer to kill and arrowheads to find for a couple of more decades
My mother and I spent years combing the area around our cabin, looking for Indian artifacts. We collected hundreds of points and had them studied by an anthropology group to determine the impact a ski area would have on the area surrounding Mount Hebgen, near West Yellowstone.
We were going through the house, cleaning out all the junk that accumulates over a lifetime and while throwing things out, I found a bunch of pieces we had collected and I had lost track of.
The most significant was to find the knife I thought was gone forever on the pile on the right side of the picture. I still remember exactly where I found that knife over 45 years ago...
slumlord is bored as heck in the hospital I have been going to nashvegas to visit him daily brought him the 2015 overstreet arrowhead guide to keep him occupied got it from the library I signed out the 2009 for me to check out amazing reference guide for sure
also bought him a 100rd box of that "new" browning 40gr .22 ammo kinda sorta smuggled it in the hospital for him to check out then brought it home with me for him
better gift than something stupid from the gift shop
he is doing a lot better and should be going home sometime soon
I found this over the week end, I have no ideas what it is or was used for, it fits the palm of the hand nicely, this is the same area that I have found several small arrow heads. Any ideas what it is?
I found this over the week end, I have no ideas what it is or was used for, it fits the palm of the hand nicely, this is the same area that I have found several small arrow heads. Any ideas what it is?
I found this over the week end, I have no ideas what it is or was used for, it fits the palm of the hand nicely, this is the same area that I have found several small arrow heads. Any ideas what it is?
Had a little luck yesterday and the day before. I'm not really sure what the long thin black one is. Most of these points date back from 5000 to 8000 yrs.
I found this hafted scraper yesterday in a food plot located in an old field that has been under cultivation since the late 1800's and probably earlier. We have been finding a bunch of flakes and few whole points, but mostly broken points. This is the first whole tool I have found.
Didn't find these myself, but purchased them all from a garage sale. They all came from an old family farm here in Michigan. I was given a map to where the farm is and will be trying to get permission next Spring to check it out:
Didn't find these myself, but purchased them all from a garage sale. They all came from an old family farm here in Michigan. I was given a map to where the farm is and will be trying to get permission next Spring to check it out:
What's the last tool on the lower right in the second picture. It's on the pink cloth. Angular with horizontal bands. I have one almost identical and have wondered as to it's purpose.
Found these at the Ranch yesterday in less than 5 minutes. It's too damn hot to be hunting arrow heads right now. Temp gauge in my truck showed 102 when I found these. Can't wait until winter to hit this spot hard!
Best place to hunt is some oldtimer's garage or attic. Thats were someone will find mine someday. Have some unusual artifacts but no talent for posting pictures.
Your second picture left side second from bottom. What is the length and width? You are very fortunate to have obtained that collection. GW
You guys have inspired me to get my kchunt off the kchouch and outta the air conditioning (wish) and hit the hill. I guess the heat didn't melt me after all.....
The usual handfull of chips-n-chits.......
Then I found a fair scraper.....
next up was a dandy little awl....
and last, the perverbial big ol' good'un, or is it, good ol' big'un?....
You guys have inspired me to get my kchunt off the kchouch and outta the air conditioning (wish) and hit the hill. I guess the heat didn't melt me after all.....
The usual handfull of chips-n-chits.......
Then I found a fair scraper.....
next up was a dandy little awl....
and last, the perverbial big ol' good'un, or is it, good ol' big'un?....
Found a weird rock today. It has a kinda turtle-shell texture with a core of kinda translucent brown stuff. It reminds me of chocolate covered caramel. You guys think it might be a petrified injun confectionary?
All I can figger, is probably some little injun kid dropped a Milkdud after trick-or-treating at the neighbors tipi and squished it with his little moccasin. It then layed there long enuff to petrify, before I picked it up....
[/quote] What's the last tool on the lower right in the second picture. It's on the pink cloth. Angular with horizontal bands. I have one almost identical and have wondered as to it's purpose. [/quote]
My best guess is it was going to be turned into a full groove celt, but I am not sure. Others may have a better idea. My first thought was, its just a rock, but you can definitely tell it has been worked on when you examine it closer.
Best place to hunt is some oldtimer's garage or attic. Thats were someone will find mine someday. Have some unusual artifacts but no talent for posting pictures.
Your second picture left side second from bottom. What is the length and width? You are very fortunate to have obtained that collection. GW
The length is 9.5 inches. The diameter is around 2 inches. I was pretty fortunate to pick this collection up. They didn't even have the tools out for sale, just the box of arrowheads.
I like collecting rocks and artifacts because I like sharing them with others. Once the owners talked to me for a while, they brought the box of tools out of the corner of the garage and offered them to me.
I paid $84 for the whole collection (what was in my pocket at the time). They just wanted to see them go to a home where they would be appreciated vs sold. The owner wanted to keep one arrowhead for sentimental reasons.
I've only found 2 arrowheads on my own, plus an old clay marble.
All I can figger, is probably some little injun kid dropped a Milkdud after trick-or-treating at the neighbors tipi and squished it with his little moccasin. It then layed there long enuff to petrify, before I picked it up....
Don...its an egg.
Don't know what kind, but google up some dinosaur eggs and you'll see the similarities. Yours might be a bird, snake, or lizard egg...but Im betting thats what it is.
We have rocks that look similar to Huntsman's milk dud out on our place. The ones we have look and feel like iron but they are lightweight and non magnetic. I've often thought and hoped they were meteorites but I kinda doubt it. Be interesting to see what it turns out to be.
Yeah, even though there is no naturally occurring obsidian in Colorado. If you find it here, it's been hauled in/traded for....
I'll be darned, I've found lots of obsidian stuff in CO over the years and always just figured it was a locally sourced material. Seems like the old ones probably had a pretty vast trade network, probably lots bigger than they're given credit for.
5 inches of rain and some of these show up. Top, l/r Durst heat treated Prairie du Chien chert, Raddatz Burlington chert, scraper heat treated Galena chert Bottom, knife Hixton;
My old compadrs said he didn't mind me posting a pic or two of some of his artifacts. These were found by his uncle who died in Northern Italy during the war. Most were found in cliff shelters along assorted creeks and the Pedernales River in Blanco and Travis co. Texas. He also found a French Lefaunchex pinfire revolver and a cool old German Jäger style rifle (back action percussion) in one of the caves. Notice the tiny point!
This a very cool collection, Bob! Never seen anything even remotely close to as small as that one in the center! I would bet that it's a super rare specimen. Thanks to your buddy for letting you post those photos!
Heres a photo of the German rifle his uncle found in the cave. I believe it was found in the 1920's probably in a cave on the Pedernales River. His uncle took the location with him when he was killed in Italy.
Hey guys, This is my first post (long time lurker though). This thread is one of the main reasons I got off my arse and signed on. Pic below is of one of my favorites. The big one in the middle is nearly the size of my hand.
Found it one year during a 500 year flood. Had to paddle out to my dad's place to check on him and figured might not be a bad time to check the storied Indian camp in the field across from his house. I'll never forget the tip sticking out of the ground and after pulling the first 2" PRAYING that it would be intact...not often does that happen.
I'll be posting up some more but not until I'm sure I have the hang of the site.
found the usual handful of junk, but a dandy little quartz bird point, too....
Originally Posted by huntsman22
another handful of scraps, a crude point and a chunk of the motherstone the point came from(I believe)
Huntsman This thread is new to me but have been looking through it have seen many cool artifacts. The tiny clear point above is likely a true arrow head. Those that are larger are probably dart points - tipping a removable shaft (dart) that was on a short spear thrown by an atl-atl. The small diamond shaped gray and buff colored "point" in the second frame may be the remains of a discarded knife. Up in the Texas panhandle there was found what was called the alternately beveled diamond shaped knife. The were found by the hundreds. As more research was conducted, a sequence of construction was noted the "knife" was actually constructed as a long oval and one end was hafted as the flint dulled it was resharpened on alternate sides until it was not useful any more then the ends were switched and and the process was repeated. When when no longer useful it was discarded thus the alternately beveled diamond shaped "knife" was actually a discard. That small point reminded me and got me wondering whether it was a small discarded knife.
Finally found what I believe is a combination of arrowheads and scraping tools?
All found within a 300 yard area, except for the fools gold Quartz chip.
The long Obsidion is rounded on the top, much flatter on the opposite side, and the base looks to be broken, but what is there is maybe 0.1" or smaller in size.
Any idea if the rounded pointed pieces were to be scrapers?
All found in the Sierra Nevada mountains, ~ 5500 feet elevation.
Was plowing the campground to plant oats, and turned these up. One of them, I showed before (one of the long points on the left). My cousin (on the right ) is holding the three he found this weekend and a scraper. He was following the tractor !! The early triangular is really nice, and is steeply beveled on opposing sides. His bottom one looks to be an Abasolo, and is very, very red. Rare to see that color of flint in this area. My cousin only comes up a couple of times a year, and enjoys hunting for heads. He is amassing quite a collection.
The arrowhead and chips I found above are the first time I actually found chips indicating, to me, that they actually made the arrowheads where we found these. The other area I have found arrow heads and broken arrowheads I am assuming were more likely hunting grounds .
Huntsman, and others, when you find all these arrowheads in the same general location, did the makers leave these culls and accidently , like the nice clear point, just drop a few good ones? I wonder why there are so many in one location. Insert envy, lol
in my case, there is a raised little bluff along a creekbottom, maybe a quarter mile long. The top and lip of the hill are littered with chips and mostly broken stuff. Obviously a camp site where flint was worked and stuff broken and discarded. The few good points I find may have simply been dropped or lost. The few mano's have been broken, too. So far, I've not found any good kill sites or hunting areas. Surprisingly, I have found very little on the creek bottom, with literally hundreds of hours spent looking. The bluff will produce a few chips or something, almost everytime I walk it....
Here's a few that I have picked up over the years. I think the thrill of finding these might be matched only by the thrill of finally getting a pic to post on 'the fire
One in the middle is probably the crown jewel in my collection. Found near my dad's place (along with most of my stuff). Sure was exciting seeing first just the jagged tip and pulling it bit-by-bit from the earth. I was ready for heartbreak at any second, and elated to hold the entire, intact, point having survived hundreds of thaws and scores of plow blades!
Any experts on here know what it is or what time period (obviously not an 'arrowhead'). Found in South central Wisconsin near shores of L. Koshkonong.
As an ex-archeologist your finds make me drool, you must have quite a collection. Some of these glass cases remind me of amateur collectors in southern NM. It was the favorite pass time of many of the people living there. Some had literally cases covering every wall. I was told that the best times to go "arrowhead" hunting was during a "good" sand storm (winds there could get in the 60 70 mph range commonly) and put on an old gas mask and walk backwards into the wind. Their collections held some amazing artifacts.
Here are a few blades I found in a piece of obsidian I had in my garage. I don't have a place to find the real thing anymore so I make them myself.
I've been doing this off and on for about 4 years and while I'm not good yet, I think I'm getting better. Anyway it is fun to do, people seem to like them and it hasn't made anybody mad yet. All good things...
Here are a few blades I found in a piece of obsidian I had in my garage. I don't have a place to find the real thing anymore so I make them myself.
I've been doing this off and on for about 4 years and while I'm not good yet, I think I'm getting better. Anyway it is fun to do, people seem to like them and it hasn't made anybody mad yet. All good things...
Good job! Good knapping.
If you figure out how to knap a Clovis with the center flute, and transverse oblique you'll have it mastered!
Makes one wonder how those old ones figured all that out...
The more I learn about knapping, the greater my respect for the "old ones". I'll never be able to do some of the things those guys could do, but it isn't going to stop me from trying.
From a guy that carves duck decoys, dabbles in painting and building models ( ie not completely hamfisted) and has tried napping, color me impressed. My 'attempts', though not many, only further impressed upon me how cool these finds are.
Originally Posted by Mathsr
Here are a few blades I found in a piece of obsidian I had in my garage. I don't have a place to find the real thing anymore so I make them myself.
I've been doing this off and on for about 4 years and while I'm not good yet, I think I'm getting better. Anyway it is fun to do, people seem to like them and it hasn't made anybody mad yet. All good things...
Here are a couple that I have collected from the lake shores...depends on the ice as to what is unearthed. Always amazed that even a scrap survives hundreds of years, more aptly hundreds of freeze-thaw cycles. Holds up better than our roads! Would love to find a larger piece but not likely when it comes to pottery shards in the upper midwest.
Love looking at these and pondering the patterns etched on them..pieces of string and fingernails from long before my time.
Here are a couple that I have collected from the lake shores...depends on the ice as to what is unearthed. Always amazed that even a scrap survives hundreds of years, more aptly hundreds of freeze-thaw cycles. Holds up better than our roads! Would love to find a larger piece but not likely when it comes to pottery shards in the upper midwest.
Love looking at these and pondering the patterns etched on them..pieces of string and fingernails from long before my time.
Those look like marine fossils or fossil impressions. But I could be wrong. I'll defer to Ringman for an expert opinion.
Here are a couple that I have collected from the lake shores...depends on the ice as to what is unearthed. Always amazed that even a scrap survives hundreds of years, more aptly hundreds of freeze-thaw cycles. Holds up better than our roads! Would love to find a larger piece but not likely when it comes to pottery shards in the upper midwest.
Love looking at these and pondering the patterns etched on them..pieces of string and fingernails from long before my time.
Those look like marine fossils or fossil impressions. But I could be wrong. I'll defer to Ringman for an expert opinion.
Roger that...I thought they looked more like a baked clay composite that had been formed into various vessels in the middle woodlands era..but your right, I should consult Ringman before touting further pics.
Ohh, sorry I didn't catch that. Was going to ask him to view these shards through various glass, at sunset, and determine by resolution if they were pottery, or in fact fossils...are you saying to skip that rigorous testing? Or maybe see if they could be exploded with a double charge of Bluedot proving they are actually modern pottery.
I agree with post after yours, better not even to invoke the name lest this, perhaps the sole pure thread on the fire become tainted.
Found a primitive turquoise ground flat bead as well. Found most of them in or around red ant beds.
Red ant beds were the prime area for finding trade beads. When I was a small kid (and dad was still a member of the old Texas archaeological society) we were gifted 15 gallons of ant mound dirt. We found a bead or two.
While I was doing volunteer archaeological work at Presidio Los Ades state historical site at Robeline Louisiana we wet screened all the dirt from the test pits. We found lots of beads here, by this method! All basic Venetian glass beads.
Here are a couple that I have collected from the lake shores...depends on the ice as to what is unearthed. Always amazed that even a scrap survives hundreds of years, more aptly hundreds of freeze-thaw cycles. Holds up better than our roads! Would love to find a larger piece but not likely when it comes to pottery shards in the upper midwest.
Love looking at these and pondering the patterns etched on them..pieces of string and fingernails from long before my time.
Benny break a piece or two and see what the unweathered inside looks like. If it looks a rock then these pieces are weathered rocks. Pottery will have a different color and tiny bits and pieces of other materials such ground pottery or sand in the matrix (called temper). Post some pics of the fresh edge here on the fire.
This is a hip bone of a bison calf with a flint point buried in it. The point protrudes slightly out the other side. It was found in SW Utah. I purchased it 25 years ago from the person that found it. I took it to the Michigan State museum and had it identified. They told me it came from a dry climate and had laid on the surface. They guessed it to be 150-200 years old
This is a hip bone of a bison calf with a flint point buried in it. The point protrudes slightly out the other side. It was found in SW Utah. I purchased it 25 years ago from the person that found it. I took it to the Michigan State museum and had it identified. They told me it came from a dry climate and had laid on the surface. They guessed it to be 150-200 years old
This is a hip bone of a bison calf with a flint point buried in it. The point protrudes slightly out the other side. It was found in SW Utah. I purchased it 25 years ago from the person that found it. I took it to the Michigan State museum and had it identified. They told me it came from a dry climate and had laid on the surface. They guessed it to be 150-200 years old
Think of the odds of finding that.
If you have a find like that, that is indeed authentic, they are very, very rare.
It can be verified and have a COA (Certificate of Authenticity) by one of several places that offer such.
Unfortunately, starting around 1950's there have been numerous people making fakes. Some are done with authentic points in ancient bone. (Those are the better ones) Some are fake points in more recent bones.
For every authentic piece like that, there are 10's of thousands of fakes.
Either way, they make for an interesting conversation piece.
Found a primitive turquoise ground flat bead as well. Found most of them in or around red ant beds.
Red ant beds were the prime area for finding trade beads. When I was a small kid (and dad was still a member of the old Texas archaeological society) we were gifted 15 gallons of ant mound dirt. We found a bead or two.
While I was doing volunteer archaeological work at Presidio Los Ades state historical site at Robeline Louisiana we wet screened all the dirt from the test pits. We found lots of beads here, by this method! All basic Venetian glass beads.
I heard you need to do it on a cold morning to avoid any angry confrontation with the ants...
Found a primitive turquoise ground flat bead as well. Found most of them in or around red ant beds.
Red ant beds were the prime area for finding trade beads. When I was a small kid (and dad was still a member of the old Texas archaeological society) we were gifted 15 gallons of ant mound dirt. We found a bead or two.
While I was doing volunteer archaeological work at Presidio Los Ades state historical site at Robeline Louisiana we wet screened all the dirt from the test pits. We found lots of beads here, by this method! All basic Venetian glass beads.
I heard you need to do it on a cold morning to avoid any angry confrontation with the ants...
Found a primitive turquoise ground flat bead as well. Found most of them in or around red ant beds.
Red ant beds were the prime area for finding trade beads. When I was a small kid (and dad was still a member of the old Texas archaeological society) we were gifted 15 gallons of ant mound dirt. We found a bead or two.
While I was doing volunteer archaeological work at Presidio Los Ades state historical site at Robeline Louisiana we wet screened all the dirt from the test pits. We found lots of beads here, by this method! All basic Venetian glass beads.
I heard you need to do it on a cold morning to avoid any angry confrontation with the ants...
!!!
Those beads are sweet. What is the fire ant connection? I have images of some poor bastard tied to a stake...but doubt the colony stays put that long. I don' think those trade beads had any widespread use up here, although my hunting techniques would not turn up many...tend to move fast through plowed fields after the first heavy rain.
Here are a couple that I have collected from the lake shores...depends on the ice as to what is unearthed. Always amazed that even a scrap survives hundreds of years, more aptly hundreds of freeze-thaw cycles. Holds up better than our roads! Would love to find a larger piece but not likely when it comes to pottery shards in the upper midwest.
Love looking at these and pondering the patterns etched on them..pieces of string and fingernails from long before my time.
Benny break a piece or two and see what the unweathered inside looks like. If it looks a rock then these pieces are weathered rocks. Pottery will have a different color and tiny bits and pieces of other materials such ground pottery or sand in the matrix (called temper). Post some pics of the fresh edge here on the fire.
I don't need to break anything in half. Those are most definitely pottery. I find most after the lake recedes during a winter where the ice really chews up the shore. Plenty of them are already broken revealing the clay/substrate mixture they are made of. My photography skills are not the best, if they were you would see markings on them of patterns made by string, fingernails and tool marks. Definitely NOT a box of old rocks, ROFLMAO...
Not fire ants, red ants. Well the ants are a secondary thing. They need to have their mounds located in a known,historic (post contact) archaeological sight. The ants do the work of bringing the beads to the surface( like the do the little bits of gravel et al), as they build tunnels.
I got sick of never finding anything, so I harrowed up an area last fall about 60x150 where the most stuff was found. We've had some 60 mph winds and a couple of nice, wet snows. The weatherman is calling for more rain tomorrow and saturday so I worked it up again this afternoon after finding this batch.
it is a little bluff about 30 feet higher than a dry creek bottom, and about 3/8ths to 1/2 mile long. It don't flow now, except during heavy rain/flashfloods. There is subsurface moisture enuff to have plenty of cottonwoods on the bottom. No live springs within 2 miles...
Picked up a few more yesterday, while others are rubbin one out to Ann Coulter- I'm out. Can't stare at hummingbirds all day and listen to Shepard Smith.
Did you guys ever pause to think, "I wonder how many of these suckers have to be laying out here for me to find EVEN one?" Pretty mind-blowing when you think about it.
Did you guys ever pause to think, "I wonder how many of these suckers have to be laying out here for me to find EVEN one?" Pretty mind-blowing when you think about it.
actually I think like that a lot when I'm walking these areas. We have 'areas inside of areas' not just hotspots before super-hotspots. Even though they've been picked over and replowed for 80 yrs (so says the owner), they continue to yield nonstop.
I've wondered about the same thing. Mention finding an arrowhead and somebody will tell you about the 2 or 3 boxes of arrowheads they have at home under the bed.
You have to figure though that the indigenous people made them for thousands of years, used them, lost them, broke them, then made more and they don't rot or deteriorate. They have to be somewhere...
I've wondered about the same thing. Mention finding an arrowhead and somebody will tell you about the 2 or 3 boxes of arrowheads they have at home under the bed.
You have to figure though that the indigenous people made them for thousands of years, used them, lost them, broke them, then made more and they don't rot or deteriorate. They have to be somewhere...
From what I've seen Huntsman has most of them.
I've posted tons of sheitt on here, but this thread gets bumped so bad to the back in lieu of Wabi-so-in-so wanting to know what everyone's favorite color is or do you like ketchup or mustard threads.
Some places have them and some don't. Most places don't from my experience. I think slumlord and Huntsman22 are both in an area that had a lot of activity for a long time.
A guy I know has a spot that he can always find flint chips, most times find a broken point and every now and then after a good rain you might find a whole point. He found a very nice Savannah River point there a month ago. It is on a hill next to a creek drain and if you go 30 yards from the center of the area in any direction there is nothing. We have found a bunch of pottery and found points and flint down to nearly 4 feet when we decided to just dig, to see what was there. Thinking is that this might have been a campsite that was used over the years and the points were being made there.
I love seeing these points on this thread and especially the way slumlord shows them before he picks them up. I'd never be able to do that. I'd have to grab it to see if it was whole.
The size differences in the points I have seen found in SE Georgia vs the points Huntsman22 is interesting too. Just seldom see a very small point around here yet in Colorado they seem to be fairly common finds.
Mathsr: Your mention of "having to grab" the point right away once spotted reminds me of a quick story of mine from a while back. I was Hunting Prairie Dogs on a remote ranch in SE Montana and the ranch owner was friendly to me on my yearly visits. One year he told me of a remote and "Virgin" Dogtown with no ranch roads leading to it. He gave me the directions and where to park and how far to walk (over a mile) and in which direction. Next morning I parked and put on my back pack (full of ammo, water, optics, tripod, sand bag and a snack) and grabbed a Rifle for each hand. It was near the end of my Safari and I was down to two Rifles that I still had ammo for - and sadly they were two Remington 40XB's of the old style with NO sling swivel attachment possibilities. Oh well I needed the exercise - off I go and my arms got long and tired REAL quick, carrying those heavy Rifles in my hands all the way to this wonderful Dogtown. I shot the guns dirty and thoroughly enjoyed the long morning Hunt - dreading heading back as now its getting hot. I pack up and head back and was sweating and tired when I come up out of a dry creek bed and in front of me is an ant hill and on the rim of the cleared off dirt surrounding it is a PERFECT arrowhead laying there shining in the sun! Not thinking I literally drop both 40X's from my hands onto the scruff ground and jumped ahead onto my knees and latched onto that point - before anyone else could come along and snatch it up from in front of me! How dumb was that? I had not seen another soul all that morning and had only seen the rancher in the past three days! Anyway I soon came to my senses, put the point in my velcro closing shirt pocket and went to inspect the damage I had foolishly inflicted on my beloved Remington Rifles! Luckily they had landed on cheat grass and soft gumbo dirt there at the crest of that creek bed. I sometimes am a creature of my impulses I guess. That perfect point has a place of honor in one of my arrowhead display frames. And I still check those two Remington 40X's for "damage" every time I take them out for a Varmint Safari. Lesson learned. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Varmint guy that would have been me! I'd have done the same thing. I have a twin brother that ha the same interests as me. It doesn't matter if it is an arrowhead lying in a field or a Marlin 336 T at a gun show, between us is isn't who saw it first, it is who has his hands on it first....If I want something at a gun show or knife show, I never lay it down.
I've never found anything on an ant hill, but the other day I got excited about finding a chip of flint on a gopher turtle mound in an area where we have never seen any flint before. It was almost as good as finding an arrowhead. And I grabbed it even though my brother was 10 miles away.
Did the same one day with my 7 x 50 binos. Reached a prime vantage point on a rim and began glassing for elk. Suddenly, there they were and well within range. I instantly dropped the binos only to hear them tumbling into rocks about 15 ft below. Seems I had removed the strap from my neck.
I was too rattled to stick with the elk, and climbed down to retrieve the glass. Scratched up exterior, but still in use today.
What would be cool is if some of the guys would snap a wide pic of the area they are finding them. It would be really interesting for the novice such as I to maybe pick up a tip or two about the areas to look.
What would be cool is if some of the guys would snap a wide pic of the area they are finding them. It would be really interesting for the novice such as I to maybe pick up a tip or two about the areas to look.
That's like asking someone how to find morel mushrooms. They usually tell you to look in the woods.
I don't want their secret spots...heck I'll never hunt arrow heads in Montana. I just have a lot of Rivers and creeks around me but I have never seen one arrowhead hunter looking there. Around here, people only look in plowed fields. I am in the heart of Indian Territory...just looking for pointers.
Deerhunter, where I have had the most luck is on a hill or raised section of land that is near a river or drain. Like really close to a water source. If it is a likely place that someone might camp today, because it is well drained (won't hold water and get muddy if it rains) and close to water, it has probably been a good place to camp for a long time. Spend a little time looking around. It helps if it is being farmed (think bare dirt). Looking around after a field has been harrowed and it has just rained can really turn them up.
I was turkey hunting last year as a guest on another person's land. I set up in an area at the edge of a field. While I was waiting I noticed the lay of the land, with a hard wood bottom falling off steeply to a small creek. The land at the top of the rise was sandy and relatively level. I thought perfect place for arrowheads. Five feet in front of me in the rut of a road along the edge of the field was the back half of an arrowhead. I found two more on the way to the next spot. Perfect place and I don't have permission to go back and hunt arrowheads, but I'm going to try and get it.
Huntsman22 pretty much summed it up when he said look down. I do when I'm hunting and have found points in some unexpected places. If I'm walking around the edge of a field on a dove hunt or going to a deer stand, I'm looking. If I'm scouting for deer season and walking a firebreak, I'm looking. Sometimes I find something, sometimes I don't.
Between this site, photoobucket and trying to post it all with a phone..the wonkiness is beyond frustrating. Especially with all the viruses and garbage popups on this forum.
Between this site, photoobucket and trying to post it all with a phone..the wonkiness is beyond frustrating. Especially with all the viruses and garbage popups on this forum.
This site is beyond phugged up imo. I just bought a new computer and I still loss the connection 7 out of 10 time I hit the damn key pad. I'm about over it... The only site that has ever given me issues.
What would be cool is if some of the guys would snap a wide pic of the area they are finding them. It would be really interesting for the novice such as I to maybe pick up a tip or two about the areas to look.
One would think that, but out here in the west, it's certainly not the case. Two instances: 1. A couple years back a friend and I were traversing an essentially featureless sagebrush plain to approach some pronghorn. Midway, we passed through about a 3 acre spot, with absolutely no distinguishing features, that was littered with points, drills, scrapers, and what I call expediency knives (simply sharp edged flakes knapped off for short term work like skinning a bunny). No signs of water, windbreaks, or vegetation that would draw me there today as a suitable camping spot.
2: An ongoing nearby dig in a depression that would provide some shelter. It's dating to around 14,000 yrs before present. Excavated plant materials and bones suggests the area supported a wealth of willows and pine, waterfowl, and wetland mammals. Today, it too is a featureless plain of sagebrush with the nearest water about 10 miles distant. Structural disparities in the artifacts also, suggest the area was occupied and then abandoned over several intervals.
Here in the west, perennial water sources are a pretty good bet as are some of the shallow but seasonal lake basins. Fourteen thousand year back, however, some of those basins were under 300+ ft of water.
Our area is karst, so it's littered with basins, sinkholes and such. It is my hypothesis that some of these areas were water holes for eastern buffalo and thusly places of ambush opportunity. We have one such geographical 'bowl' which could have been a 10 acre pond a few thousand years ago. We find early archaic blades around it, strictly just around it. The river is about a mile away and we find no debitage between it and this basin. And it's plowed all they way to the river.
So yes, landscapes and climate were possibly entirely different 8,000 years ago.
What would be cool is if some of the guys would snap a wide pic of the area they are finding them. It would be really interesting for the novice such as I to maybe pick up a tip or two about the areas to look.
ok
Well this is what it looks like.
Just have to find the hot spots. Like a giant body of water, just have to scout it an find out where the fish are.
Our area is karst, so it's littered with basins, sinkholes and such. It is my hypothesis that some of these areas were water holes for eastern buffalo and thusly places of ambush opportunity. We have one such geographical 'bowl' which could have been a 10 acre pond a few thousand years ago. We find early archaic blades around it, strictly just around it. The river is about a mile away and we find no debitage between it and this basin. And it's plowed all they way to the river.
So yes, landscapes and climate were possibly entirely different 8,000 years ago.
Buffalo wallows in the western US have indeed proven to be a good spot for artifacts. Time and again as erosion and winds sweep the plains.
We have Plumbers, Electricians, Welders today, I wonder if there was 1 guy in the group that excelled in arrowhead making and everybody else came to him for their points?
I don't see how they ever got in enough practice to be good. 1 practice shot and you could be back to whittlin and knappin.
Ole one eye from the saber tooth attack and all da camp ho,s made points.. Pretty reasonable to imagine everyone had a basic skill level at stuff and some had higher levels of skill. Fug up a point give it To the old lady or oneeye and have em retool into something else and give ya a new point or do it yourself . I know if i was in hunting parties putting food on the plate I would make sure my family had skills to make me points. Common sense.... Called division of labor...... no welfare as a way of life back then.... makes me wonder how negros made it as far as they did......
Ole one eye from the saber tooth attack and all da camp ho,s made points.. Pretty reasonable to imagine everyone had a basic skill level at stuff and some had higher levels of skill. Fug up a point give it To the old lady or oneeye and have em retool into something else and give ya a new point or do it yourself . I know if i was in hunting parties putting food on the plate I would make sure my family had skills to make me points. Common sense.... Called division of labor...... no welfare as a way of life back then.... makes me wonder how negros made it as far as they did......
I believe that the old folks and women made most of the points.
Indians also had strong beliefs about blood. That's why you find so many "perfect" points in Indian camps... Certainly within a certain direction and proximity of a campfire in the Indian camp.
Once the point had drawn blood, it was removed, and another point attached to the shaft of the dart, spear, or arrow. They usually did that while sitting around a campfire, and would toss the bloodied point on the ground.
Read the account of Cabeza de Vaca concerning the Coalhuatecans in south Texas. Them po bastids was pickin' thru their own caca for stuff to eat. They ate lots of other stuff too. When they could find it. Mainstay of their diets were prickly pear tunas and pecans! mesquite beans and female babies were popular dietary items too!
One of the coolest things I have ever seen was related to the Sewee tribe in our region. It was a Megaladon tooth that had been knapped into a point and was legit.
My dad pulled this out just a few plowed rows over from me. Happy for the old man, but sure wish I'd been walking that row! Have a fair number of ax heads to my own name but none with the wow factor of this one...It's like the maker chose his stone canvas, not just for the sake of the tool alone.
Funny thing is, dad and I had that conversation. We both agreed. Plenty of heft to leave a nasty mark! Plus the careful stone selection just seems to say "this ain't my building ax, this is my thumping ax". However, I think the smaller ones were more likely to be the war clubs. Kind of hard to recover and get a second swing if you missed your mark the first time...
Went to a very interesting talk the other night about local archaeology. The Professor had been studying a site on the North end of the lake for 40 years. The particular archaeological culture was Oneota and were in the area from AD 1000-1450. He was theorizing they pretty much killed each other off based on some pretty beat up skeletons, some with bashed in heads. The whole group dispersed at the end of that period and very little sign of Indian activity after that until the early 1800's. Which was when new groups were pushed in from more settled regions.
It is even recorded that Abe Lincoln (prior to presidency) while in the Illinois militia chased Chief Blackhawk up to the area. During that excursion he had his horse stolen.
To be honest I have no idea what era that ax is from. I believe many of my points are far older than the Oneota period and plenty of other finds dating back 1000's of years.
Also found out my pottery shards have a name in the books (Bussyville Cord) for the town they were first formally discovered and the markings on them. Found almost nowhere else. Neat place to kick the dirt around for sure.
Alright, experts. Here are a few that I have in my 'curious finds' category. Very mineralized but almost positive bone, not what I would be associate with older fossils. I doubt I could purposely drill better holes than what is through these with a drill press. They were all found after a heavy ice season tore up a shoreline...also my best years for pottery and points! The one sure looks like a claw doesn't it? What ya'll think? Worked on stuff or natural occurrence.
Alright, experts. Here are a few that I have in my 'curious finds' category. Very mineralized but almost positive bone, not what I would be associate with older fossils. I doubt I could purposely drill better holes than what is through these with a drill press. They were all found after a heavy ice season tore up a shoreline...also my best years for pottery and points! The one sure looks like a claw doesn't it? What ya'll think? Worked on stuff or natural occurrence.
Tough time getting a decent pic.
The long, drilled pieces look like breast beads.
The other is definitely an awl. I found one just like it. Very rare piece! They used it to sew with using sinew as thread. An ancient needle, if you will.
They were a cheap and major trade item with natives and whites alike. There are some communities in the older parts of town that you can't dig a flower bed with out finding bunches of pipe stems. ( fyi ground up pipe clay was also used to "Blanco" white leather military belts, cross belts, cartridge box straps, any white leather). As you can see they break easily. I broke that one just now photographing these! 😂
Oh! Archaeologically speaking many time one of the tools used aging a post contact site is from Looking at the size of the holes in the pipe stems. Older pipes generally had a larger hole in the stem.
Thanks for the replies. I thought maybe pipe stem as a possibility. Laying the pieces side by side (assuming consensus is correct) it makes sense too. They do form a taper, albeit with pieces missing. No less thrilling a find thinking about who smoked that last pipe yards from where my dad's pier now sits...I like to sit there too, but more of a cigar guy. Maybe kinder'd spirits.
The stretch of land is called Thiebeau Point, named for a French trader that was there from late 1700's till 1836. Maps I have been reviewing could put his cabin within a stones throw of dad's place. Rumor has it that he was murdered by his Indian wife. That he disappeared is a fact. Perhaps this was his last pipe prior to head meeting club in previous post.
Hard not to love this stuff...and let imaginations run.
Thanks for the replies. I thought maybe pipe stem as a possibility. Laying the pieces side by side (assuming consensus is correct) it makes sense too. They do form a taper, albeit with pieces missing. No less thrilling a find thinking about who smoked that last pipe yards from where my dad's pier now sits...I like to sit there too, but more of a cigar guy. Maybe kinder'd spirits.
The stretch of land is called Thiebeau Point, named for a French trader that was there from late 1700's till 1836. Maps I have been reviewing could put his cabin within a stones throw of dad's place. Rumor has it that he was murdered by his Indian wife. That he disappeared is a fact. Perhaps this was his last pipe prior to head meeting club in previous post.
Hard not to love this stuff...and let imaginations run.
Cool thing is you go back there an look you will probably find LOTS more Clay pipe fragments. A Clay pipe was like a pack of cigarette. They were dirt cheap. And folks went thru them like cheap socks! A disposable item. The broken stems were also Used by the natives for beads! Generally they tried to make them look like a regular bead.
In the same vein, the French made a pipe Clay bead, fired and salt glazed them to look like a Venitian white glass bead. They were much cheaper to make than the glass bead! I have several strings of them. I'll try to post some pics of them tomorrow! The Venitian glass bead trade was extremely lucrative. The guilds guarded their manufacturing secrets with the death penalty. European traders were pretty much at their mercy. Although some Offshoots did appear. Lots of stuff ended up coming out of China. Like "Padre" beads. Cool thing is lots of original beads that are 300-400 years old are still available to collect. West Africa is full of them! Same beads traded here 300 years ago!!
Went over to a friends place to set up a arrowhead hunt on a ranch I can't access. Last week I mentioned that I'd sure like to take a walkabout on a certain bluff east of here. He used to cowboy over there and is good friends with the owner, and said to come on by and make plans to go spend a day poking around the place. He drug out these two frames of stuff he has found there.......
When I get caught up next week, we'll wander over to the place.
Went over to a friends place to set up a arrowhead hunt on a ranch I can't access. Last week I mentioned that I'd sure like to take a walkabout on a certain bluff east of here. He used to cowboy over there and is good friends with the owner, and said to come on by and make plans to go spend a day poking around the place. He drug out these two frames of stuff he has found there.......
When I get caught up next week, we'll wander over to the place.
Do most of you guys make your own frames, or is there something commercialy made that works better? I have been making my own but not real crazy about their workings!!
Feild across the creek from your sock puppets land , pretty rare find. Called a haw river/paleo intially thought it might have been a fort ancient blade/missispian. research it with envy and paranoia while picking up my ciggerette butts....
Feild across the creek from your sock puppets land , pretty rare find. Called a haw river/paleo intially thought it might have been a fort ancient blade/missispian. research it with envy and paranoia while picking up my ciggerette butts....
Certainly not one to envy your finds, I have cases and cases of points and you've seen them.
The sickening part is you making me walk 1/2 mile across a field to spot considering my medical issues. Only to lead to a spot littered your footsteps and pall mall butts and then procliam "oh those fuggin locals, they feel like it's their god given right to do as they please"
Self serving and deceiving
The only places you have found arrowheads on are lands you trespass on and federal lands.
Feild across the creek from your sock puppets land , pretty rare find. Called a haw river/paleo intially thought it might have been a fort ancient blade/missispian. research it with envy and paranoia while picking up my ciggerette butts....
Certainly not one to envy your finds, I have cases and cases of points and you've seen them.
The sickening part is you making me walk 1/2 mile across a field to spot considering my medical issues. Only to lead to a spot littered your footsteps and pall mall butts and then procliam "oh those fuggin locals, they feel like it's their god given right to do as they please"
Self serving and deceiving
The only places you have found arrowheads on are lands you trespass on and federal lands.
I've got a lot of points and pieces. I enjoy looking for the bowls and petals as you don't have to walk around hunched over staring for a needle in a haystack like you do arrowheads. I look for likely looking rocks and flip em over or dig them out of the ground. Lots of flipping to find what I have, but it keeps me outside in some nice country. I'll gather up some of my arrowheads when I get a few minutes.
I'm speculating that the calf had been wounded and later died unrecovered, otherwise the arrow or at least the arrow point would have been recovered.
I'm also thinking that the shot placement may not have been as far off target as some may think. It stands to reason that the hunter may have been aiming for the paunch or soft area of the animal so as not to have penetration of the arrow stopped by ribs and shoulder bones in a frontal hit. But he missed target slightly hitting the hip bone. A paunch hit would have been lethal and caused the animal to drop out of the herd to die within sight in the open terrain.
Hit the hill after mowing to give a look-see before the rain hits. It payed off. Found a real nice complete point. It's a purty leetle bastid, The trans-lucency-ness(cowboy term) and beauty-mous grain is most pleasing to the eye.....
WOW, what a truly outstanding point. Such beautiful stone and in such amazing shape. I really love the little points to begin with. That is just amazing.
There are huge valley oaks scattered along the river bottoms here that rain a corns in the fall. The natives would grind them into a paste using a mortar and pestal.
yeah. I haven't looked at home for a couple weeks. Figured I'd hunt the new spot till I wear out my welcome. It's bigger and rougher than home. I put some miles on today for that one crude yella point.....
Thanks Neal! I liked to have had a heart attack when I spotted it. Sun was going down and I was strolling back to camp. Evening sun actually reflected off of it!!! Freaked me out!!!
I really need to get over to young son's house and photo some of the points out of my late dad's collection. There's some Castrovilles, Perdenales, and Montells in that collection to die for.
Thanks Neal! I liked to have had a heart attack when I spotted it. Sun was going down and I was strolling back to camp. Evening sun actually reflected off of it!!! Freaked me out!!!
Quote
I Bet!!!
I really need to get over to young son's house and photo some of the points out of my late dad's collection. There's some Castrovilles, Perdenales, and Montells in that collection to die for.
I couldn't agree more. This was one of my favorite threads. I hope that you guys, that find these artifacts, will keep posting them. I'm going to post a point or two when I get around to making a few more.
I'll resurrect this pic from Photobucket's death well. One can pick up tons of obsidian (volcanic glass) here in SE Oregon in all kinds of colors. I usually hit some softball sized cobbles anytime I'm digging a post hole around my perimeter or slaving away in one of Cookie's flower beds.
That being, this is the only cheap hobby I've ever taken up since the materials are free. Aside from a couple of instructional books, it took no investment at all. About 6 months of time and I eventually figured out how to knock these out. A great mind cleanser if one is having a bad day. One has to focus solely his objective, and the worlds frustrations all go away. Then again, some frustrations can surface if one gets a point about 95% complete and breaks it in half.
I dug up this large sliver of obsidian yesterday while metal detecting, incidental to the antique brass oar lock my detector hit on. I looked around for surface finds but only found a couple more small flakes.
With so many flint knappers chipping out arrowheads now how would one authenticate a find... to another in doubt? No, not talking about SandBilly friend's find but in general.
The archaic era goes back to 8,000 BC. This was after the ice age so that point didn't kill a wooly mammoth. But it might have killed a buffalo. I want to get in my time machine and watch that Indian make that point.
With so many flint knappers chipping out arrowheads now how would one authenticate a find... to another in doubt? No, not talking about SandBilly friend's find but in general.
you have to send them off and get them papered. Perino was the big authenticator, atleast 20 years ago he was. My father and a really good friend of his got into some expensive stuff. As a teenager I'd go with them to artifact shows throughout the southeast. Good times.
Living in Macon by the ocmulgee river, my father got access to farm land next to it, spend many a days looking for arrowheads.
The really fancy stuff you just arent going to find without drilling or digging...which is a no no.
I was really into the florida coral points and had a nice frame of them at one point. But sadly, dad gave them away without running it by me.
He was really into river points, and we had divers come up and find some in the ocmulgee. I remember one guy found a really nice Simpson just north of Macon in the river.
One of the worst things you can do is have a fake in your collection. It makes the entire collections questionable.
I showed this blade to a “collector” and he wanted to know if I had Papers on it. LOL
no I don’t, I seen it sticking out of road cut while doing about 20 mph. No telling how people driven passed it that day on the way to the boat ramp. People are aloof, plain and simple.
I showed this blade to a “collector” and he wanted to know if I had Papers on it. LOL
no I don’t, I seen it sticking out of road cut while doing about 20 mph. No telling how people driven passed it that day on the way to the boat ramp. People are aloof, plain and simple.
A real "collector" who knows his stuff doesn't need to ask if you have papers.
Someone who knows their stuff can pretty much tell at a glance.
Yours looks GTG. Very nice knife!
Sandbilly's buddy is FOS though. That's a modern made point.
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
killerv: You were looking along the Ocmulgee River in central Georgia. I used to look near the Oconee River in Milledgeville. There were big corn fields next to the river, just wait for them to plow them in April, and then wait for it to rain, and the fields were just covered with broken pieces of pottery and flint flakes. It was easy to imagine big Indian villages in those fields south of Milledgeville. I picked up some nice points there as well as a nearly intact axe head.
My buddies were looking right in the Oconee River, on a sand bar right in Milledgeville, and they found a clay pipe. It was a figure of a duck and was about 4 inches long. They told me it was just beautiful, museum quality. But before I got a chance to see it, one night they were smoking pot with it and dropped it on the kitchen floor and it shattered into 300 pieces.
At that same spot in Milledgeville, right where the highway crosses the river, one day I was going by there and I saw an RV parked there, and some guys with scuba gear. I went down to investigate. These guys were getting cannon balls. They had studied up, that the state Armory was in Milledgeville in 1864, and when Sherman took over the town, they loaded up 800 cannon balls into a wagon, and took it to the bridge over the river, and threw all the cannon balls into the river. These cannon balls were about 3 inch diameter and 7 inches long. These guys had a big inner tube with a mesh floor and a big suction hose, they vaccuumed up all the mud on the bottom of the river, the water about 9 feet deep there, and the cannon balls would land on the mesh floor of the inner tube. These guys had about 300 of these cannon balls and they said they planned to get all 800 of them. They said that one cannon ball was worth $350.
Also they had a beautiful Bowie knife, and a beautiful flint spear point about 7 inches long that they had vaccuumed up from the river bottom.
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
Finding half that many would be exceptional for myself or ‘50. Would like to hit some muddy or sandy creeks, the gravel and larger rock media in our creeks are difficult to pick anything out. Iron ore industry of the 1800s introduced massive amounts of slag and process rock to the streams here
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
VERY nice point in upper right.
I've found a ton of Harrell's and Toyah's, but not many points with an un-notched base like that one.
With so many flint knappers chipping out arrowheads now how would one authenticate a find... to another in doubt? No, not talking about SandBilly friend's find but in general.
you have to send them off and get them papered. Perino was the big authenticator, atleast 20 years ago he was. My father and a really good friend of his got into some expensive stuff. As a teenager I'd go with them to artifact shows throughout the southeast. Good times.
Living in Macon by the ocmulgee river, my father got access to farm land next to it, spend many a days looking for arrowheads.
The really fancy stuff you just arent going to find without drilling or digging...which is a no no.
Souvenir ones sold Versus Real ones found
The patina consistency of souvenir ones and perfect flaking pattern versus the inconsistencies in patina over time and flaking of real ones.
Sometimes in collections for sale whereever like at the triangle flea market here in town or at a gunshow. You will run across ones some poser has worked with a dremel to " fix". SMH....
I have seen that crap.... And when ya point schit out like that. Mr Poser who was mr SME 10 seconds ago goes into deflection let me look at that mode with a "I dont see it" excuse and a bogus "well I,ll be" or the standard "I bought them off blah blah blah" . Hoping you leave so no one else hears the conversation.
I have sold shadow box collections of points. Most of your buyers are old guys who cant get out and hunt them anymore.
Stone to steel type of stuff.
I got 2 killa spear points on Cookie and Rico,s headstones 1st killa spear point I find next is going on Blackjack,s headstone.
0 in my collection right now. Khan/ wife called me up back in june to come entertain the daycare kids outta the blue at Ft Defiance a civil war place here in Town. They was getting rained out.
It turned into show and tell arrowhead candyman handing em out. Kids were going bonkers about em. Nothing really special. Brokes and grade 5 and 6 stuff. But to them kids they were something they never seen or felt before.
Got brownie points with Khan/wife that day for being a on call "Rockstar" so to speak giving out arrowheads.
Sent some better grade 6 and 7 stuff up to Goalie cause he sent me some glock holsters earlier this summer.
It's all good...
Should be a good year for me and slumlord this winter and spring based on plowing cycle and crop rotation between the 2 majors area,s we hunt.
That was a big thing my dad and I would do, after a good rains, we'd ride dirt roads and check the banks, found a lot of stuff that way. I found about a 5in morrow mountain once in great condition and sent it off to get documented.
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
VERY nice point in upper right.
I've found a ton of Harrell's and Toyah's, but not many points with an un-notched base like that one.
Easily the biggest Washita we’ve ever seen. Strangely enough the trip before that I found a Harrell that was even bigger. Sadly my Harrell had an impact chip out of the tip.
I don’t get super excited about Washita and Harrell points generally, they’re usually pretty much all clones. But I love the itty bitty ones. Found this perfect little fella made out of Alibates a while back.
The itty bitty ones are your true arrowheads, we call them bird points. We had a spot in a field maybe 10ft by 10ft and you could always walk to it have a good rain or plow and pick up bird points.
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
VERY nice point in upper right.
I've found a ton of Harrell's and Toyah's, but not many points with an un-notched base like that one.
Easily the biggest Washita we’ve ever seen. Strangely enough the trip before that I found a Harrell that was even bigger. Sadly my Harrell had an impact chip out of the tip.
I don’t get super excited about Washita and Harrell points generally, they’re usually pretty much all clones. But I love the itty bitty ones. Found this perfect little fella made out of Alibates a while back.
Nice!!! I have found very few made from Flint out of the Alibates flint quarry from the TX Panhandle region. Supposedly, that flint was highly valued by the early natives and traded all over N America.
killerv: You were looking along the Ocmulgee River in central Georgia. I used to look near the Oconee River in Milledgeville. There were big corn fields next to the river, just wait for them to plow them in April, and then wait for it to rain, and the fields were just covered with broken pieces of pottery and flint flakes. It was easy to imagine big Indian villages in those fields south of Milledgeville. I picked up some nice points there as well as a nearly intact axe head.
My buddies were looking right in the Oconee River, on a sand bar right in Milledgeville, and they found a clay pipe. It was a figure of a duck and was about 4 inches long. They told me it was just beautiful, museum quality. But before I got a chance to see it, one night they were smoking pot with it and dropped it on the kitchen floor and it shattered into 300 pieces.
At that same spot in Milledgeville, right where the highway crosses the river, one day I was going by there and I saw an RV parked there, and some guys with scuba gear. I went down to investigate. These guys were getting cannon balls. They had studied up, that the state Armory was in Milledgeville in 1864, and when Sherman took over the town, they loaded up 800 cannon balls into a wagon, and took it to the bridge over the river, and threw all the cannon balls into the river. These cannon balls were about 3 inch diameter and 7 inches long. These guys had a big inner tube with a mesh floor and a big suction hose, they vaccuumed up all the mud on the bottom of the river, the water about 9 feet deep there, and the cannon balls would land on the mesh floor of the inner tube. These guys had about 300 of these cannon balls and they said they planned to get all 800 of them. They said that one cannon ball was worth $350.
Also they had a beautiful Bowie knife, and a beautiful flint spear point about 7 inches long that they had vaccuumed up from the river bottom.
I know, or knew that group of divers. Time was one of them and I hunted relics south of Macon off Cochran Short Route. As a kid I hunted many of the fields around Lake Sinclair.
"As a kid I hunted many of the fields around Lake Sinclair." --GeoW
Here you go GeoW. It isn't an Indian, but it is close.
Here is my roomate Jerry Tomlin shooting carp in the Oconee 100 feet below the dam in Lake Sinclair. It was nothing for Jerry to shoot a 15 pound carp. There would be a little black granny fishing there on the shore, she has 6 bream total weight one pound. She watched us shoot a 15 pound carp. And then I marched over and gave her the carp. Merry Christmas for Granny, it was time to go home and start cooking!
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
VERY nice point in upper right.
I've found a ton of Harrell's and Toyah's, but not many points with an un-notched base like that one.
Easily the biggest Washita we’ve ever seen. Strangely enough the trip before that I found a Harrell that was even bigger. Sadly my Harrell had an impact chip out of the tip.
I don’t get super excited about Washita and Harrell points generally, they’re usually pretty much all clones. But I love the itty bitty ones. Found this perfect little fella made out of Alibates a while back.
Kid
Did you bother to pick up the point in the top right corner of this picture that includes your thumb. GW
I showed this blade to a “collector” and he wanted to know if I had Papers on it. LOL
no I don’t, I seen it sticking out of road cut while doing about 20 mph. No telling how people driven passed it that day on the way to the boat ramp. People are aloof, plain and simple.
A real "collector" who knows his stuff doesn't need to ask if you have papers.
Someone who knows their stuff can pretty much tell at a glance.
Yours looks GTG. Very nice knife!
Sandbilly's buddy is FOS though. That's a modern made point.
I don’t know, I haven’t known him a real long time but I’ll find out. He is a native Texan so it’s probably BS. 😆
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
VERY nice point in upper right.
I've found a ton of Harrell's and Toyah's, but not many points with an un-notched base like that one.
Easily the biggest Washita we’ve ever seen. Strangely enough the trip before that I found a Harrell that was even bigger. Sadly my Harrell had an impact chip out of the tip.
I don’t get super excited about Washita and Harrell points generally, they’re usually pretty much all clones. But I love the itty bitty ones. Found this perfect little fella made out of Alibates a while back.
Kid
Did you bother to pick up the point in the top right corner of this picture that includes your thumb. GW
A leaf maybe???? Don't know how many times a leaf has done the jedi mind fugg on me. 🥴🥴🥴😄😄😄
Yeah, when I find a point, blade, or scraper in a remote creek or plowed field I never wonder if it’s “real”. I can understand if you were acquiring your collection at shows or swap meets.
Pretty good creek walk a couple weeks ago.
I’d say that was a pretty good day 👍
VERY nice point in upper right.
I've found a ton of Harrell's and Toyah's, but not many points with an un-notched base like that one.
Easily the biggest Washita we’ve ever seen. Strangely enough the trip before that I found a Harrell that was even bigger. Sadly my Harrell had an impact chip out of the tip.
I don’t get super excited about Washita and Harrell points generally, they’re usually pretty much all clones. But I love the itty bitty ones. Found this perfect little fella made out of Alibates a while back.
Kid
Did you bother to pick up the point in the top right corner of this picture that includes your thumb. GW
A leaf maybe???? Don't know how many times a leaf has done the jedi mind fugg on me. 🥴🥴🥴😄😄😄
No, it was a soybean husk. But like Rene, don’t think I haven’t stooped over to grab about 3000 of them thinking they were the real deal.
'We joked about it and said I'm probably the only person on Earth to pull an arrowhead out of an alligator's stomach.'
Quote
JACKSON, Miss. – What does a 750-pound alligator eat? Well, just about anything it wants, but items found in this particular Mississippi alligator's stomach defy odds and date back thousands of years.
Shane Smith, owner of Red Antler Processing in Yazoo City, Mississippi, said he was examining contents of a 13-foot, 5-inch alligator that weighed 750 pounds and discovered two unusual objects. One he couldn't identify, but the other was clearly a broken stone arrowhead.
The find was so unexpected, he almost didn't let the news out.
"At first, I thought 'I'm not posting this on Facebook,' because no one will believe it," Smith said.
Then, he had second thoughts.
Dog tags in an alligator's stomach
The story first began to unfold in April when a wild game processor in South Carolina reported opening the stomach of an alligator and finding unusual items. Smith read it and was skeptical.
"The curiosity struck me when I saw a post online about someone finding dog tags in an alligator's stomach," Smith said.
To satisfy that curiosity, Smith decided to examine contents of the larger alligators he processed. The first was a 13-foot, 2-inch, 787-pound gator taken by Ty Powell of Columbia, Mississippi.
"We found a bullet in it, and it had not been fired from a gun," Smith said. "I don't know how it got in there."
The second alligator he opened, which was harvested at Eagle Lake, located 15 miles northwest of Vicksburg on the Mississippi and Louisiana border, contained many of the things the first did, including bones, hair, feathers and stones. Then, something else caught his eye.
How did artifacts, thousands of years old, turn up in a Mississippi alligator's stomach? 'We joked about it and said I'm probably the only person on Earth to pull an arrowhead out of an alligator's stomach.' Brian Broom Mississippi Clarion Ledger
JACKSON, Miss. – What does a 750-pound alligator eat? Well, just about anything it wants, but items found in this particular Mississippi alligator's stomach defy odds and date back thousands of years.
Shane Smith, owner of Red Antler Processing in Yazoo City, Mississippi, said he was examining contents of a 13-foot, 5-inch alligator that weighed 750 pounds and discovered two unusual objects. One he couldn't identify, but the other was clearly a broken stone arrowhead.
The find was so unexpected, he almost didn't let the news out.
"At first, I thought 'I'm not posting this on Facebook,' because no one will believe it," Smith said.
Then, he had second thoughts. (From left) Jordan Hackl of Warrensburg, Illinois, John Hamilton of Raleigh, Todd Hollingsworth and Landon Hollingsworth, both of Mize, pose with an alligator they caught In Mississippi September 2, 2021. Artifacts dating as far back as an estimated 6000 BC were found in the alligator's stomach.
"This is too cool not to post of Facebook," he said. "This has probably never happened before. We gotta post this."
Alligators in Mississippi:5 things you may not know about the South's apex predator Dog tags in an alligator's stomach
The story first began to unfold in April when a wild game processor in South Carolina reported opening the stomach of an alligator and finding unusual items. Smith read it and was skeptical.
"The curiosity struck me when I saw a post online about someone finding dog tags in an alligator's stomach," Smith said.
To satisfy that curiosity, Smith decided to examine contents of the larger alligators he processed. The first was a 13-foot, 2-inch, 787-pound gator taken by Ty Powell of Columbia, Mississippi.
"We found a bullet in it, and it had not been fired from a gun," Smith said. "I don't know how it got in there."
The second alligator he opened, which was harvested at Eagle Lake, located 15 miles northwest of Vicksburg on the Mississippi and Louisiana border, contained many of the things the first did, including bones, hair, feathers and stones. Then, something else caught his eye. A prehistoric projectile point and another prehistoric object known as a plummet were discovered in the stomach of a 13-foot, 5-inch Mississippi alligator. A find like no other
"Everybody was standing around like I was opening a Christmas present," Smith said. "We kind of put it all in a bin.
"I looked over and saw a rock with a different tint to it. It was the arrowhead."
Smith said he was dumbfounded.
"It was just disbelief," Smith said. "There's just no way he had an arrowhead. Your first thought is it ate (a Native American) or (a Native American) shot it in the stomach."
Smith knew that wasn't the case, though.
"My best hypothesis is wherever he scooped up those other rocks, he got that (Native American) point," Smith said. "We joked about it and said I'm probably the only person on Earth to pull an arrowhead out of an alligator's stomach." Point dates back thousands of years
James Starnes, director of Surface Geology and Surface Mapping for the Mississippi Department of Environmental Quality, examined a photograph of the point. He estimated it was made about 5000-6000 BC.
'That is the latter part of the Early Archaic and early part of the Middle Archaic (periods)," Starnes said. "How the base is made is real tell-tale in estimating the time period."
Starnes also noted the object is not an arrowhead. It's a point used on an early weapon that launches a spear using a second piece of wood with a cup on one end which acts as a lever to increase velocity.
"That's an atlatl dart point," Starnes said. "People think all heads are arrowheads, but those (arrowheads) would be the little bitty points."
As bizarre as the find was, it was about to get even stranger. Smith found a heavy, tear-shaped object roughly 1½ inches in length. Both he and the hunter who was permitted to harvested the alligator thought it was something more modern — a lead weight used for fishing.
"It's heavy like lead," Hamilton said. "It looks like it's got two holes in it, but they don't go through it.
"It's got a little hole and a bigger hole on top. I guess it goes in and comes back out." What's a plummet, and why would an alligator eat it?
Starnes said it's known as a plummet and dates back to the Late Archaic Period, or about 1700 BC.
The weight is accounted for because it's made of hematite, an iron oxide traded between early groups and shines when polished. Starnes said what purpose plummets served is unknown.
"The plummets, we really have no idea what they were used for," Starnes said. "These things had some significance, but we have no idea. We can only guess."
So, how did these ancient objects get into the alligator's belly? Ricky Flynt, Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks Alligator Program coordinator, explained very hard objects, typically stones, aid the reptiles in digestion.
"Alligators, like other animals such as birds and other reptiles, are known for ingesting grit and rocks to help with digestion," Flynt said. "We know alligators and crocodiles do that."
However, alligators differ from fowl such as chickens and ducks. Those animals have gizzards and the grit and sand is stored there to help grind seeds and grains they consume. Alligators don't have gizzards and the stones go into the stomach.
"Sticks, wood; things they can't digest get into their stomachs," Flynt said. "I found a piece of cypress in an alligator's stomach that was 15 inches long."
killerv: You were looking along the Ocmulgee River in central Georgia. I used to look near the Oconee River in Milledgeville. There were big corn fields next to the river, just wait for them to plow them in April, and then wait for it to rain, and the fields were just covered with broken pieces of pottery and flint flakes. It was easy to imagine big Indian villages in those fields south of Milledgeville. I picked up some nice points there as well as a nearly intact axe head.
My buddies were looking right in the Oconee River, on a sand bar right in Milledgeville, and they found a clay pipe. It was a figure of a duck and was about 4 inches long. They told me it was just beautiful, museum quality. But before I got a chance to see it, one night they were smoking pot with it and dropped it on the kitchen floor and it shattered into 300 pieces.
At that same spot in Milledgeville, right where the highway crosses the river, one day I was going by there and I saw an RV parked there, and some guys with scuba gear. I went down to investigate. These guys were getting cannon balls. They had studied up, that the state Armory was in Milledgeville in 1864, and when Sherman took over the town, they loaded up 800 cannon balls into a wagon, and took it to the bridge over the river, and threw all the cannon balls into the river. These cannon balls were about 3 inch diameter and 7 inches long. These guys had a big inner tube with a mesh floor and a big suction hose, they vaccuumed up all the mud on the bottom of the river, the water about 9 feet deep there, and the cannon balls would land on the mesh floor of the inner tube. These guys had about 300 of these cannon balls and they said they planned to get all 800 of them. They said that one cannon ball was worth $350.
Also they had a beautiful Bowie knife, and a beautiful flint spear point about 7 inches long that they had vaccuumed up from the river bottom.
I know, or knew that group of divers. Time was one of them and I hunted relics south of Macon off Cochran Short Route. As a kid I hunted many of the fields around Lake Sinclair.
g
we had a great place off the short route, got off the interstate and was a few miles down on the right. Old black guy had a small farm and dad would do electrical work for him to let us look for artifacts. Got to the point the guy was basically asking my dad to do all kinds of stuff around the house and my dad finally said it wasnt worth it.
Dad had a projectile point made of Alabates that was a surface find in Atascosa county! Seem to remember it was an arrow point. Archaeologist son has it now. As well as all his other stuff. I still need to get over there and photo some of that stuff to past here.
Dad had a projectile point made of Alabates that was a surface find in Atascosa county! Seem to remember it was an arrow point. Archaeologist son has it now. As well as all his other stuff. I still need to get over there and photo some of that stuff to past here.
This is the place where Indians quarried the red stone called Catlinite. They made pipes with it.
The quarry is still being worked today. Only Indians are allowed to work in the quarry. They have a museum and gift shop there where you can buy pipes made in the modern age, and I bought this one.
I guess the guy who made my pipe is named Redwing. There is a trail that goes through the quarry site, it is about a 20 minute hike to see it. If any of y'all are in the vicinity I recommend a visit to the Catlinite quarry. When we were there there was one Indian quarrying the red stone. He wasn't using ancient tools I saw a DeWalt cordless drill and a few other battery powered tools he was using.
This is the place where Indians quarried the red stone called Catlinite. They made pipes with it.
The quarry is still being worked today. Only Indians are allowed to work in the quarry. They have a museum and gift shop there where you can buy pipes made in the modern age, and I bought this one.
I guess the guy who made my pipe is named Redwing. There is a trail that goes through the quarry site, it is about a 20 minute hike to see it. If any of y'all are in the vicinity I recommend a visit to the Catlinite quarry. When we were there there was one Indian quarrying the red stone. He wasn't using ancient tools I saw a DeWalt cordless drill and a few other battery powered tools he was using.
Indians with “Power Tools”. I’d of had to taken a picture of that one.
Never found a pipe of any kind. None of my old TX arrowhead hunting compadres did either, as far as I know of.
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Really neat to find one. I found it while Antelope hunting. Its on BLM land so I didn't take any of it and I have told no one of its exact location. Really fantastic to find.
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The one with the silver chain, my Grandfather found as a boy in southern Ill. the native american that wraped the silver around it said, it was big Med. as it has blue veins running thru it!![[Linked Image]](http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_3800.jpg)
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But its legal for the government to freeze building projects indefinately on private land when artifacts are found during earth removal. Costing owners greatly by delaying or shuting down projects. A little government is a necessary thing but what we have now is a nighmare. Hard to dig in Missouri around water sources without running across stone artifacts.
Your correct indefinately is not two years to delay a bridge project only seemed that way, while driving several miles around it. They found part of a skull and a few flint tools. Best not to notice those things if you want to finish a project. GW![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/huntsman22/guns/IMG_2323.jpg)
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I guess I should tell the complete story. The find was made in an attic where I was buying antiques from an estate. Had bought some from this estate previously and the son of the collector advised at that time his father must have sold the good points. Apparently he had not. Bout had the big one when I pulled the lid off of the first box we found. Great thing about this was most of it was marked what local county that it was found in. Some great stuff, drills and bird points with dalton bases. Four or five nice knives. Was going to sell some to recoup some of my money, but after framing several frames of the best ones, wasn't mutch left to sell. Lucky for me the 50 year old son of the collector is not an artifact person. GW ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/huntsman22/IMG_2452.jpg)
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