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What do you guys think of this analysis? He's got something to sell, for sure. Is it as dire as he paints it?

It's from a year ago. Are we seeing the what he predicted?


The Second Crash � On the Way and Unstoppable

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By Doug Hornig, Editor, BIG GOLD



Tuesday, October 9, 2007 started as a nice day in New York City. A lovely early fall day, with the temperature still a balmy 80� at 2:00 in the morning. By evening, though, the temperature had dropped twenty degrees, the clouds had rolled in, there was thunder and rain.



As with the weather, there were some hints of trouble here and there on Wall Street. But all in all, things could not have seemed better. Little did we know, the stormy end of 10/9/07 signaled a very large bubble that had just popped.



That was the day when the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit its historic peak. From there, it was all downhill -- slowly but steadily at first, and then violently after last August -- until the Dow bottomed (for now) on March 9 of this year. Over that span, the index lost 54% of its value.



It�s been a crushing blow to just about everyone. But it�s already being referred to as the crash. As if the unpleasantness were now all behind us. More likely, in the future it will be seen as, simply, the first crash.



Don�t believe it? In a moment you will, when you see the scariest graph of the year.



But let�s quickly recall what�s already happened. During the late, great housing boom, interest rates were at microscopic levels, while bankers were encouraged to grant home loans on little more than a wink and a nudge. In order to inflate their balance sheets, those bankers resorted to all sorts of gimmicky, adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs), whose common feature was an interest rate that would eventually reset. That is, it would balloon somewhere down the road. And those most likely to come quickly to grief were the riskiest borrowers, who held loans known as �subprime.�



�But not to worry,� borrowers were told. �Betting on ever-rising home prices is the safest wager in the whole wide world. If you have problems with cash flow when the ARM resets, your house will be worth a lot more, so you can simply sell it and walk away with a nice chunk of change in your pocket.� Uh-huh.



The bankers themselves were a little more concerned about the deterioration of their portfolios. They took out insurance in the form of credit default swaps (CDSs). These were a brand-new invention in world financial history, allowing mortgages to be sold and resold until they were leveraged 20 times over. They became the shakiest part of a huge global derivatives market, with a nominal value in the tens of trillions of dollars.



For a while, this Ponzi scheme even worked. But then, as they had to, the ARMs began resetting, and there were defaults. Then more of them. Because at the same time, the housing market was cooling off and the economy was stalling out. More and more people were trapped in a situation where they owed more on their home than they could sell it for. Many simply mailed their keys to the bank and moved on.



All of this wreaked havoc in the derivatives market. Sellers of these exotic packages could no longer establish what they were worth. Buyers couldn�t determine a fair price and so stopped buying. As the ripples spread through the world financial system, trust disappeared and liquidity dried up.



Now consider that the base cause for all that dislocation was the subprime sector. And how big is that? Not very. Subprime mortgages account for only about 15% of all home loans. Their influence has been way out of proportion to their numbers, because of derivatives. Here�s the good news: the subprime meltdown has about run its course. These loans were resetting en masse in 2007 and the first eight months of �08. Now they�re pretty much done.



And the bad news? No one in the mainstream media seems to be asking what should be a pretty obvious question: What about loans other than subprime? Truth is, the banks didn�t just trick up their subprime loans. ARMs were the order of the day � across the board.



Now, here�s that frightening graph we referred to earlier.

[Linked Image]



Take a good, long look. You can see that from the beginning of 2007 through September of 2008, subprime loans (the gray bars above) were resetting like crazy. Those are the ones people were walking away from, sending a shockwave from defaults and foreclosures smack into the middle of the economy. Now they�re gone.



The ARM market got very quiet between December 2008 and March 2009, hitting a low that won�t be seen again until November of 2011. Small wonder a few �green shoots� have poked their heads above ground. But in April, resets began to increase and will reach an intermediate peak in June. After that, they tail off a little, going basically flat for the next ten months.



It�s not until May of 2010 that the next wave really hits. From there to October of 2011, the resets will be coming fast and furious. That�s 18 months of further turmoil in the housing market, and the beginning is still nearly a year away! (Although the months in between are likely to be no picnic, either.)



While it isn�t subprime ARMs that are resetting this time, neither are they prime loans. Those eligible for prime loans wisely tended to stay away from ARMs in the first place, as indicated by the relatively small space they take up on each bar.



No, the next to go are Alt-A�s (the white bars), Option ARMs (green) and Unsecuritized ARMs (blue). Alt-A�s are loans to the folks who are a small step up from subprime. Unsecuritized loans are a 50-50 proposition; either the borrowers were good enough that they weren�t thrown into the CDS pool, or they were so risky no one would insure them.



Those two are bad enough. But Option ARMs are the real black sheep, loans with choices on how large a payment the borrower will make. The options include interest-only or, worse, a minimum payment that is less than interest-only, leading to �negative amortization��a loan balance that continually gets bigger, not smaller. Imagine what happens with those when the piper calls.



Once the carnage begins, will it be as bad as the subprime crisis? That�s the $64K question. Perhaps not. For one thing, subprime loans were a much larger chunk of the market when they started going south. For another, there�s been a lot of refinancing as interest rates dropped; that should help ease the default rate. And the government has massively intervened, with measures designed to prop up those who would otherwise lose their homes.



On the other hand, we�re in a severe recession, which wasn�t the case when the subprime crisis started. More people will be unable to meet payments. And the housing market has continued to decline, pressuring both marginal homeowners and banks that can�t sell foreclosed properties.



Is the stock market�s next 10/9/07 on the way? Yes. Which day will it be? That�s unknowable. It could be in a week, or not for another year.



But make no mistake about it, the second crash is coming. It can�t be prevented, no matter what desperate measures Obama and his hapless financial advisors come up with. All we can hope for is that, with a little luck, it won�t be as severe as the first one. But it will last longer. We aren�t even in the middle of the woods yet, much less on the way out.



The order of the day is to be very defensive. There will be few safe havens, but they do exist. Read our report on �48 Karat Gold,� a gold-related, conservative investment that has continued going up even while the common stock market bombed. It�s not too late to profit� click here to learn more.

I have heard analysts say at least a dozen times since the first of the year exactly what is said in the article.
The estimates of foreclosures for 2010 could be as high as 4.9 million, well over double the previous year.
It's gonna be a ride...
it'll get a lot worse before it even starts to get better. I'm trying to sell a house now (after purchasing a foreclosure for a song) and I'm competing against at least a dozen foreclosures in the immediate vicinity.

and Utah has a comparatively low foreclosure rate....
UL,

Where is the house you're selling in market scale. Entry, mid, lucxury?

The reason I ask it that last Fall I was talking to a realtor acquaintance and around here all the stuff below 250K (entry level. Maybe a bit above) was sold. Mainly because of the 8K fed credit.

But the 750k stuff wasn't moving at all.
I will say one thing, I've talked to a few folks in the real estate biz recently and all have said the same thing; if you're doing OK in this economy and have some spare cash, it is absolutely one of the best times in history to buy. A good proportion of homes that are going into foreclosure are second or vacation homes, which means there are some great prices right now not only in the warmer states like Florida but hunting and cabin-type homes as well.
Gold, silver, real-estate, and guns/ammo. Good commodities to purchase/own while the government spends and prints money full tilt.
The foreclosures should be just as high in 2010 to 2011 because the national government is still involved in the housing market.

The only real way to stop the collapse of the housing market is to let the market place govern itself.
Steve, the house we're trying to sell is an entry-mid level "first home". It's much nicer (and a little bigger) than most of the foreclosures. It's also in a primo neighborhood so we have some hope of moving it in a reasonable timeframe.

Still, there's that nagging doubt...
What about the looming commercial real estate foreclosure situation? Supposedly it will be as bad or worse.
Wow....you guys are a lot of fun this morning.........
I've been watching the same numbers. I divested from all real estate holdings (including personal) within the past year. I don't plan to buy in again until 2011 or later.
Originally Posted by levrluvr
I will say one thing, I've talked to a few folks in the real estate biz recently and all have said the same thing; if you're doing OK in this economy and have some spare cash, it is absolutely one of the best times in history to buy.


Well I wouldn't expect a realtor to tell ya otherwise.
True....commission on 1/2 of what it sold for 5 years ago is still $ to them.
.
Did I say anything about dealing with a realtor?
hope I didn't set on my azz too long.


gonna try and sell my house this summer, and move into our other house.


I'm a 1/3 of the way through my gear room. Cripes but I have a lot of stuff!


looking to buy a connex or two

The last sentences in the article are trying to sell gold. I don't trust anyone trying to sell me something. So I take the entire article with a grain of salt. But I do think that there could be some very good deals in the housing market for someone with cash to invest.

We sold a second home about 1 1/2 years ago, made a reasonable profit on the exchange, and we still have the proceeds in liquid accounts. We're keeping our eyes open to buy another second home and hope to get a good deal.

KC

From someone trying to make a living in the current market conditions, I can report that the housing market today is an absolute mess of financial wreckage.

The wreckage is both macro (the loans detailed above) and micro (the results of individual bad decisions, such as pulling out all your equity at the peak).

On top of that, we have massive gooberment intervention into the market, which only breeds confusion. For instance, the buyer's credit is maybe perhaps might gonna be expiring in April. Whether it does or does not, it has created a false "bump" now, as it did last November, from people trying to get the credit before it expires.

My personal and professional opinion- we as a society have acted very badly. There is harsh medicine to take, and we ain't done taking it yet.
Jeff O

I agree... I just hope the Meds do not kill the patient

There was no free lunch and that is why we are in this mess�.

There is still no free lunch and that is why it is hard and painful getting out.
Originally Posted by levrluvr
I will say one thing, I've talked to a few folks in the real estate biz recently and all have said the same thing; if you're doing OK in this economy and have some spare cash, it is absolutely one of the best times in history to buy.


My son just bought his first house. The house had been on the market for almost a year with the asking price dropping over $100K. My son negotiated another $10K off the price with the seller paying the closing costs. To top it off, my son locked in at 5.25% and will receive the $8K check from Uncle Obammy.

My middle name is "Full Price", so he must have inherited the shopping gene from his mother. wink
I could rant on this one. I'm trying HARD not to. smile

OK, a quick rant.

We own our property outright, have for over a decade now. So there has been between $300k and $400k of equity sitting there this whole time.

I have been BROKE numerous times in that time period. The curse of the self-employed is cash-flow issues, feast or famine as it were, and I've had my share.

But never once did we touch our equity. While half of America was partying like it was 1999 (ha ha), pulling out their equity and living beyond their means, going to Hawaii every winter, buying all the nice Shiny Things, I wasn't. And worst of all.. at parties and whatnot, you had to listen to the sumbitches tell you how smart they were! How it made no sense to leave that money "trapped" in the house, etc etc etc till you just wanted to [bleep] PUKE!!!!!!

I said then to anyone who would listen, this is wrong. There will be hell to pay. There will be a day of reckoning. Repent, sinners, repent! grin

And then it came, and now we apparantly have to bail the whiney SOB's out from... from... from their big PARTY?! Hey, they are the ones in Hawaii, I was the one festering in the Oregon cold winter rain and now I gotta bail them out?

I know it's not that simple, but, in the spirit of my tag line below, on another level IT IS THAT [bleep] SIMPLE!!!

Rant mode off. Deep breath.

I got my real estate license about 4 years ago. It's been a bumpy ride as you can imagine. Presently, it's a very confused market as I described earlier. It's very hard to pin a number on something that is the subject of government intrusion. You just don't know what to expect. Having a Dem in office, with their reputation for "saving the people", doesn't help.

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Having a Dem in office, with their reputation for "saving the people", doesn't help.


damn, JeffO

You voted for the fugger most likely to provide entitlements.

I realize you were mad at W and the party, but this is just the Dem's - who were elected- strutting their stuff, as you so eloquently put it.

Take your rant elsewhere.

This is what you asked for.

Its the price of admission for not having the old white guy running things....
Jeff - stop it - your sounding like a conservative - you're confusing half of us and scaring the chit out of the other half... grin
Originally Posted by bbassi
Jeff - stop it - your sounding like a conservative - you're confusing half of us and scaring the chit out of the other half... grin


grin

I am quite conservative on some major issues as far as how I've lived my life. More so than many so-called "conservatives".

My comment on Obama and how the D's are seen as the party that "takes care of people" was simply that with the housing market all screwed up, and a D in office, it makes it that much more likely that people will be looking for a "solution" from Washington.

I'd say, in terms of likelyhood of Washington actually DOING something, it's about the same. Bush II had his stimuli and bailouts, and so would McCain.

But the perception that Washington will do something, clouds people's judgements, regardless of what does or does not actually every happen. And perception drives markets as much as tangible things do.

Aight, I'm gonna go work on my new private 100-yard rifle range on my paid-off property, where I cut down a bunch of big trees yesterday with my chain saws! How's that for conservative <grin>.

When are you guys going to understand it's not a Democrat OR Republican thing, it's a Democrat AND Republican thing.

There is only one political party with a Red Team and a Blue Team.

Best possible time to buy a house. Prices and interest rates are very low.

Find a house you like then lowball them on the already low,low, price. Put at least 20% down get a 5% or lower 15 year loan and "Bob's you uncle".

Originally Posted by levrluvr
.
Did I say anything about dealing with a realtor?


No. neither did I.... just what advice they would give....
Prediction for the Boise market is 10-12% additional drop in value by the end of the year.
Originally Posted by UtahLefty
Steve, the house we're trying to sell is an entry-mid level "first home". It's much nicer (and a little bigger) than most of the foreclosures. It's also in a primo neighborhood so we have some hope of moving it in a reasonable timeframe.

Still, there's that nagging doubt...


Utah,

The $8,000 tax credit ends this weekend if you don't have it under contract by April 30 the market place is going to adjust downward again. The non-foreclosures will have to complete with-in a market place of foreclosure homes that the banks must sell in 90 days to 120 days. This forces the banks to drop prices until the REO homes are under contract.

While the $8K was a boost to the nations housing market in a attempt to stabilize
the market place once the credit is removed the market forces return work as they should.

Doc
Originally Posted by JGRaider
What about the looming commercial real estate foreclosure situation? Supposedly it will be as bad or worse.


I've wondered about that myself. The strip malls around here are about 50% vacant.
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