I have a meeting in a week or so with someone to discuss a potential job which, if I accept, would require me to quickly relocate to the Phoenix area.

Would love to hear some thoughts from those who know the area well. The good, the bad, the ugly... (and, yes, I know there are some very bad areas -- that alone wouldn't deter, as I grew up in LA from age 12 and have more than a little common sense about avoiding the 'hood). Specifically interested in some of the nicer areas within a reasonable commute... housing prices... traffic congestion... property taxes... wages compared to other major metropolitan areas... crime level/impact in the nicer 'burbs... kids are in college, so I don't care about schools... whatever's useful.

I've spent very little time there, but quite a bit of time to the north up in the rim country. Many of the "plus" aspects (hunting opportunities... being politically sympatico... pro-gun laws, etc.) are a given.

All input appreciated.

There is this one strip club...............................




Alright, I've never been there.

Just adding worthless information and upping my late night post count.



time to go to bed fish head

I bit on the first sentence. Thought there might actually be some actionable intelligence forthcoming.

I graduated high school in Phoenix.

First and foremost.. Can you handle the heat? The summers are brutal.

Yes, I'm aware that it's AC-or-die in the summer. I've been going to Yuma every Sept. 1 for a great many years now, and know all too well what 117 degrees plus saturation-level humidity feels like. (For starters... I can tell you I don't shoot doves all that well under those conditions... heat stroke plays hell with your concentration).

The Phoenix/Scottsdale/Glendale/Tempe/Chandler/Mesa/ etc. etc. megalopolis is a mass of humanity and traffic - nothing like the relatively serene desert of the 60s and 70s. But, there are reasons why so many people have flocked there.

Beautiful weather from mid-September through most of May (but some serious inversion pollution in winter at times) and some parts of the noted communities are just lovely and very safe. But, with the flocks came the higher crime rate, big rush-hours traffic, tax issues etc. - and a steady change from what was a very conservative political tone to less and less so as the years pass.

The area is quite clean in appearance compared to most metro areas, and there is a lot of great outdoor recreation. Housing is fairly affordable right now, by normal comparison, due to the crunch. Yes, it is "don't touch the steering wheel" hot from june through August and it DOES NOT cool down at night in summer - so try to get a place with a nice pool.

My wife is from Scottsdale. She left there about 25 years ago.

While some of her best friends are still there, and we go to visit now and then, every time she says there is no way she could move back.

While the area is nice (but did anybody mention the heat yet? ), I guess for those that were there back then, it's just changed and grown way too much.

Only been there once. The people I visited had painted rocks in their yard "gree" to simulate grass and had tiny water sprinklers on their walkway by the house to make it cool enough to walk on. That's pretty much all I took from the visit.

[quote=Kentucky_Windage] Specifically interested in some of the nicer areas within a reasonable commute... housing prices... traffic congestion... property taxes... wages compared to other major metropolitan areas... crime level/impact in the nicer 'burbs... [quote]

There are nice enclaves all around the area. I live on the far western edge. I can see downtown from my front yard, though it's over thirty miles away. The metro area continues far past what I can see. That's the thing, it's really big here. It would help if you could narrow it down the potential location.

Housing prices are down but there's competition to buy as speculators are back.

Traffic not bad as many places. Taxes the same. Wages depends. Crime not bad in the nice places especially since the illegals are at least partially on the run, absconding for greener pastures.

I came here in 2004 from back East, and the heat doesn't even bother me much anymore. You just learn to deal with it.

I like it here and may never leave.

Our daughter lives in Scottsdale. Their home is now worth exactly half what they paid for it a few years ago. They CAN'T leave.

As mentioned, the place is exploding with new developments - or was. North and east of Phoenix proper are where the "good" folks live. (No other way to say that, I guess.) Scottsdale is all uber-rich and pretentious, If you don't drive at least an Audi, you are nothing. Everything is expensive. Lots of golf, if you play, but it's only affordable when the weather makes play miserable. City water tastes awful.

Great sports town for both profssional and college teams. That is even if the D backs are the door mat of the NL West. Plus side is that you'd be sort of close to Tucson, which I do like.

The valley is huge landmass wise, about 80 miles end to end, maybe more now. Depending on your job location will dictate east or west side. If you like the rim, fishing lakes, skiing lakes, eastside is closer. If you like Flagstaff and Sedona, party lakes, rivers, westside is better.

I an eastsider from birth and my activities are hunting, fishing, water sports, golf, rural living (though right now I live in a golf community) I spend a lot of time over in 'Powellville' where my family has property and looking to pick up another acre of citrus grove behind the barn when the deal goes through. Also in Mesa.

Going rural is a luxury and if you have the dollars there are places to do it right in town.

Kent

wife grew up in Tucson, I went back with her for thanksgiving when we first started dating, and told her you realize we will never live here right? I'd consider Prescott but PHX is no different than LA (crime, traffic, too many people, etc) with added heat.

ML

I hope no one actualy believes this.

As I said, I can see downtown from my front yard. I can also go a 1/4 mile from my house and hunt on public land, or drive the 36 miles to Sky Harbor in 40-50 minutes at any time of day.

Is it a big city with the attendant constraints? Of course. But it's nowhere near the bottom for either crime, traffic, or overcrowding.

It is the absolute azzhole of Arizona, I wouldn't live in Phx if ya held a gun to my head, I don't know how people do it. A hot, miserable, green haze covered,sweltering, people choked hell hole of a city....did I mention how much I hate Phx?

I guess i shouldn't mention that for the last three years on sept 1 i have been at a county island in glendale which is part of the metro phoenix area for the thousands of dove that like to feed there. On a bad day, and shooting over your shoulder with a mirror, takes about five minutes to get a limit.
I live on the north side, mainly because i was born/raised in prescott and wanted quick access back there. saturday morning i drove up to the house in prescott, then to chino valley just north of there for a family gettogether barbeque/horses were trying to get in line for the food, then up to williams to scout for elk. In the phx metro area within a few hours driving time you can have any kind of land you want. mountains, desert, ocean, etc.
Most of the year it is real nice. The bad months are july august with the heat/humidity. You quickly learn the standard dress is shorts/t shirt/flip flops. If you look you can have horse property dead center in the city.
If you have the money, it is a could time for property as prices are way down from a couple of years ago.
I also might mention built in the arizona consitution is a provision about the right to firearms. It is in general a gun friendly state.

I will second everything that Rufus,Ron and KRP have said.

Phoenix metro is NOTHING like Los Angeles, thats probably the worst comparison I have heard yet.


Also Arizona is an open carry state as well as "constitutional carry" meaning no need for cocncealed carry permits.

It IS closer to Texas.

Texas has its drawbacks..... Pat being one of them

Wife's cousin lives close to Phoenix - she says it's pretty hot there.

Our former neighbors moved there a little over a year ago - they say it's pretty hot there.

Never been there myself, but I hear it's pretty hot there.

Where would you be working? That will determine, to a large extent, what areas you would want to consider for a home and what kind of commute you'd be in for.

During the housing market frenzy, new homes sprung up in many of the outlying areas. Those areas are now leading the way down in home prices. And, I'd avoid them unless your job allows you to work from home. They will look like bargains....homes that sold for $250k in 2006 can now be had for $60-$75K. But, the commute from these locations is brutal if you must work in Phoenix.

Wow, that's news. I was kicking myself for letting my concealed permit expire as I'll be spending a lot of time back in my home state this year. Did not realize they went to permit-less concealed carry this year.

And Phoenix is nothing like LA. I grew up in AZ, both in the valley and around Flagstaff. I live in LA now. No comparison. Sure, it's not the central AZ of the 70's, but it's also not the LA of the 90's either.

It does crack me up a bit to hear people complain of traffic in the valley. I've been back so many times, and relatively speaking, yes, it's worse, but still doesn't touch LA traffic for its' mind numbing slow pace and steering wheel eating inconsiderate drivers.

If you have an inside job, you'll be fine with the heat. Takes some getting used to, but manageable, if you're just not completely "alergic" to the heat like I am in my older age. Hate it, and it makes me miserable to do anything outside in the heat.

Almost moved back a couple years ago, then took a substantial promotion (sold out I guess). Will be in the hell of LA for a few more years I guess. But it's still close enough for me to get back on long weekends and vacations.

Love AZ, but if I have started looking at NM. Same type of geography, weather (desert, mountains), same type of things to do, but with half the population.

If my company bought there now, I'd be back in a heartbeat, desert heat or not.

Look at Cave Creek, just North of Scottsdale. I'm right on the border of the two, and I commuted to Sky Harbor for years. 40 minutes each way, on average. I love it up here, because it's easy to escape up to the high country. Pretty affordable, too.

Looks like work location would be northeast side of town.

That probably puts you looking for place around Scottsdale or north east Mesa, perhaps even Tempe. Lots of nice places around there and its really easy to get to the high country too.

This.

Cave Creek and Carefree are nice places to live. Much of northeast Mesa is nice, too. There are nice pockets all over the Phx metro area, from Gilbert to Glendale. North Scottsdale, Troon, etc. are nice but way too upper crust for my tastes.

Phoenix isn't all that bad. The summers can be tough, but you don't have to shovel sunshine to get out of your driveway in the mornings. Plenty of great hiking in and around the city, and the topopgraphy is so diverse that you can be in oak-studded grasslands, alpine meadows, desert bighorn territory, or 10,000-foot mountains blanketed in blue spruce & aspens within a 3-hour drive, depending on which direction you head out from downtown Phx.

If in the far northeast, then Rio Verde and Fountains Hills might work too. You'd be neighbors with Sheriff Joe in Fountain Hills.

Thanks, you guys are making me feel better about the prospects. A moderate commute doesn't bother me. Hell, in my last job in SoCal, I spent almost three hours per day on the road. I could easily handle 40-45 minutes to live in the right area.

Up here near cave creek we're 1000' higher than downtown Phoenix, and it's about 7 degrees cooler, if you care about that.

i might add that just to the north of cave creek is the seven springs, camp creek road. Which through bends etc goes about 70 or 80 miles north to a place called childs. One of the interesting things is that you have that mass of humanity, but within miles you get into country that hasn't changed much in 200 years. I might also note that about 50 miles north of my house in north phoenix is crown king, in the southern bradshaws. I have seen 20 feet of snow there once upon a time. About the same 50 miles north is also bloody basin, named after an unfortunate housecleaning episode with some local indians a number of years ago. I will guarantee you can get into trouble real quick there if being stupid, from the heat in the summer, and the mud in the winter.
If you want to be a indian do like my cousin did. He went a few years ago up north of cave creek to bloody basin crossing the bridge on foot at sheeps crossing(bridge built for sheep) and did a week in the matztal wilderness area on foot. It was the danged indian coming out of him.
Cave creek has mountain lion coming into down once in a while. Friend of mine lives there and has had them in his back yard, tempted to let loose with the a.k.
As to the permitless carry, that does NOT come effective for a few more days, as to the concealed part.
You could always carry pretty much, just not concealed. The law change when effective gets rid of that issue.
Be careful where you park your hat, it is a difficult decision to think real estate is coming back real quick.
A soon to be family member a few years ago bought a nice 1900 sq ft 3bedroom, 2bath house with pool out off I10 and 122ave, say south west part of town. Would have to think purchase price was over 200k at the time. It short saled recently for about 67k. Course 40% of the subdivision is that way.
I think rufus in the weeds, lives out in waddell, which is on the west side. Nice place, named after a family member.
Again, in a few hours i was up on bill williams mt outside of williams saturday, in tall grass looking at the rain clouds moving in checking for elk, lion, deer, what ever was moving. I think that area is about 7000 ft and at night it is certainly cooler.
My daughter commented this weekend with the cloudbursts you were cold at night in prescott, but hotter than hades coming down to phoenix the next morning.
Last fall coming out of a blizzard up north, when i got down close to phx i turned the a/c on.
Mr headworker there in s.e. arizona has got part of it right. I can think of a lot better places than phx to live in in arizona, but the metro phx/tucson/flagstaff corridor is where you make the money to go play in the rest of the state which is thinly populated.
i might add for people who have read louis lamours books, a lot of them were written near payson, or aforsaid crown king in a place called horse thief basin. He got the original spirit of arizona pretty close.

You are correct, sir. To add a little more local color, there's a little general store across from the Waddell PO that has a corral so you can park your horse when you go inside. This is only a couple miles straight shot from the I10.

Been to the Bar in Crown King. My Son-In-Law tried to sell me some land there a few years back.
I like the area between Prescot and Yarnell.

have a deer tag this fall for the area to the north of yarnell and prescott going up to camp wood.
as to the bar in crown king, don't think it has to have changed much but had to relate the story.
In the early 70's in december a friend and i split a case of beer and headed up the old road to crown king.
that road originally was the narrow cage railroad, with all the switchbacks. Went into the bar, had the pot belly stove going, and went out back to use the outhouse. Had a hollowed out log for the urinal on a slant running out the side. The bar impressed me because they had cases of coors stacked on one side clear up to the ceiling. The guy said they were expecting bad weather, which made sense at the time.
people's valley just before yarnell has always been kind of a nice little place. Use to patrol down that way in another life.
A lot of the forest around crown king is pretty rough these days due to drought and the bark beetle.

Ya got that right, I was visiting a friend there and went out at 10pm... it was like walking into a sauna... unbelievably hot.

I figure they are on Pacific time for a reason.... it puts sunrise way early, everyone goes out and does their outdor stuff before breakfast.

Otherwise felt very much like California... expensive, trendy, and with an unfriendly Hispanic population.

Birdwatcher

I have friends in Payson and have kicked around there a bit, chased quail south of there, fished a few of rim lakes, etc., so I know some of that country. Looking forward to hopefully seeing a lot more. If I accept the job/make the move, I'll be asking you guys for some tag application advice, for sure.

Look at it this way. If I make the move, you wouldn't be gaining another bleepin' Californian. You'd be gaining another shooter/hunter/angler/conservative vote.

That definitely works for me.

Best of luck on your job offer.

Did a job there a few years ago in the summer. I'd worked there before off and on for years and knew what to expect. I had a young ambitious welder with me and he darn near killed me busting azz in the heat the first day.
Got back to the hotel that evening and I explained the rules to him.
Next day we started at 5AM, worked till 9AM then quit and went back to the hotel.
Took a cool shower and headed for the pool, swam for a while and took a nap.
We went back to work at 4PM and worked till 8PM
That was my normal workday in Arizona.
I never liked keeping my tools in a bucket of water.

We'll see how it plays out. Have a couple of other irons in the fire right now I'm waiting to hear on and am not meeting with the company until Aug. 3. Much depends on what they're willing to pay... Looking at the real estate prices, though, I could take a considerable cut and still come out ahead financially. Looks like you can buy a LOT of house for the money right now. Just did a quick scan of houses in Mesa, just to get an idea, and was shocked. Some of the houses going for $200K there would go for nearly $1 mil here.

Let me retract not not the same as L.a but close, its no small town... I will venture to say probably more drug related killings than most other cities too.

I can drive to LAX in 40 minutes too if i time it right but with SNA 8 miles away I can be there in 15 minutes so never go through LAX . I will gladly pay more to stay out of LA county.

As for CCW I don't believe you can carry concealed in PHX.

FWIW it is only a few notches north of L.A. in my book if I'm given the choice on where to live. Lots of hunting opportunities close by though.

ML

Re. concealed carry in Az., I'd have to check, but I'd bet I'm already good to go since I have CCWs from Utah and Florida. I thought the new law makes permits unnecessary in Az, unless you want one just for reciprocity sake in other states?

As has been said, find out where you're working and then look for a place to live based on the commute. The northeast valley is Scottsdale which tends to be some of the pricier real estate in the valley. I'd suggest looking in north Phoenix, possibly Cave Creek. Desert Ridge is definately an area I would look at, it bsaically stradles both sides of Tatum Blvd. going north of the Loop 101. Depending where you are in the northeast valley, I'd suggest avoiding Mesa, the commute coming north on the 101 can be brutal. Also 202 and US60 west bound in the mornings is one of the worst commutes in Phoenix.

There are bargains to be had right now in real estate, but you do need to be careful. My wife just had a co-worker relocate here and they said finding a house on the market with clean title, no back payment or pending foreclosure issues was a challenge. They did end up buying a foreclosure well below market value after several attempts on other houses. One was a short sale in which the potential sellers did not notify the bank, this came out in the conference room during closing and the deal fell through. Another was a foeclosure they got into a bidding war on and wisely backed out before the price went above current market value. If looking at foreclosures and short sales, make sure that you have a real estate agent who understands the complexities of them.

Avoid areas on the fringes of town. They sprang up quick during the real estate boom and have taken the hardest hit. Prices have dropped dramatically, but so has the quality of the neighborhoods they are in.

Phoenix does have a lot to offer, primarily location. A 5 hour drive or a 1 hour flight with cheap fares gets you to Los Angeles, San Diego or Las Vegas. Southern Utah and its National Parks is a half days drive away. There's also a lot within the state, the Mogollon Rim, White Mountains; it's not all cactus. rocks and desert. Ben Avery is a large range with multiple rifle, pistol and clay target ranges operated by Fish & Game on the north side of town. Cost of living isn't bad; taxes are low, real estate is a bargain right now, the only excption being car insurance rates down here do suck.

Good luck in making a decision. If you have more specific questions, feel free to ask.

The crime danger in large cities can always be debated, with valid points on either side of the coin. It really comes down to specific neighborhoods. There's a helluva big difference between South Central or East LA and my current neighborhood, which is just over the county line in Ventura County, up out of the concrete jungle in a fairly affluent area. Very little crime here, and I have quail, deer, mountain lions and an occasional black bear just out the back door. I'm sure Phoenix has its share of bad neighborhoods, but I seriously doubt they could hold a figurative candle to LA's worst -- and it's not like I'm going to go out of my way to find a BAD neighborhood to live in. Quite the opposite, just as I did here in SoCal.

"As for CCW I don't believe you can carry concealed in PHX"

Wow,.....

that's an interesting opinion.

GTC

Mosby, thanks! Will do once I know whether the company will make a decent offer.

You can carry concealed in Phoenix- it is not Las Vegas... It is not that uncommon to see folks carrying on their hip as well. Having been in law enforcement here for over 20 years, it was pretty funny watching new officers who had relocated from places like NY or MI or MA freak out when they saw someone toting a gun.

There are lots of drug related shootings in Phx but 90% of them are illegals shooting illegals.

If your job is on the NE side, you will be foolish to live anywhere else. Traffic is MUCH improved over the past 2 years but the evening commute can still be a grind. I commuted to downtown PHX for 5 years from Mesa. I waited until 830 to leave the house and waited until after 6pm to drive home. I usually got to work right about 9:05 or so. I didn't enjoy the drive but it is NOT LA.

The summer heat is the worst part of living here. I spent two years in Prescott and do miss it. Late July and early August are the most brutal times as our humidity hovers around 50% and the temps in the 100-112 range. It's 103 as I type this and 55% at my house in Mesa. I have already had to take a shower today after spending the morning working in the back yard.

I intend to spend the rest of the summer scouting in the higher country and avoid the worst of it.

It is a little over an hour to Payson from Mesa and another 25 minutes to get up on "The Rim". From Phx, you have CITY for about 25 miles until just south of New River. It is two hours to my house in Prescott and three to Flagstaff. From PHX it is 30 minutes closer.

A couple MAJOR differences between the People's Republic of Kalifornia and AZ...

AZ is the definition of a 2nd ammendment friendly state. Open carry, one of the first with the Shall Issue carry, and now only the 3rd state I believe with "Alaska Carry". I always say about California that it's doubtful you could take your guns, get in your car, and drive to where you want to be shooting, without being in violation of some stupid gun law along the way. Run across a young, dumb, over eager tree cop, and your day (and potentially your life) could be ruinned by arrest, confiscation, etc.

And, when you do want to go out and enjoy your guns, hunting, hiking, etc., in AZ, there is not a "Private Property, Keep Out" sign at every turn. Plenty of public land available to do whatever your heart desires very close to the major metro area of the valley, and out your back door if you so chose in most of the rest of the state. I've found NOTHING even remotely like that within 3 hours of Los Angeles. All the while worrying about violating some gun law. I gave up. Made more sense to drive the 6 hours or so to where I grew up West of Flag and do my outdoors activities there where you don't have those problems.

Big cities are big cities, and you'll have problems in them no matter where they are. It's what's availabe right outside of those cities (and the rights you have while in them) that make all the difference in the world IMO. In that regard, Phoenix just smokes Los Angeles.

I think he is maybe referring to the airport by the three letter code?

All I'll say about that subject is I've never seen a posting .....

I think he must have meant Sky Harbor "PHX", not the city of Phoenix.

DaveR - I wouldn't totally give up on hunting in Calif... PM me if you want some tips, but the key thing to remember in transporting guns in your vehicle is to keep the firearms (unloaded) and ammo in separate, locked containers. It's that simple. A pain in the butt, yes... a stupid imposition, yes... but there's some good hunting here if you know where to go -- some of it within a 3 hour drive.

Of course, like everyone else here, I would infinitely prefer Arizona's gun-friendly approach.

Where at Kentucky? I'm in Camarillo. Yes, worlds different from LA! As much as I can't "love" living anyplace in SoCal, Camarillo is quite nice. Lived in Agoura for years, but now feel the extra 15 minutes of commute is well worth it to get over the hill where it is 15 degrees cooler in the summer, and view farm fields and PCH on the way to work instead of bumper to bumper traffic, graphiti, etc on the 101 and 405!

Hells bells... we're practically neighbors! I'm in Westlake Village. We'll have to compare notes. I always avoided 101 & 405, and commuted south via Malibu Canyon and PCH. Worked reasonably well unless there was an accident... construction... wildfire... mudslide... etc. Previously drove to El Segundo daily -- usually an hour and 15 in the a.m., an hour and 30 in the p.m., so I could easily handle a 45-minute or so commute in Phoenix!

Nope that doesn't make sense either. Never seen a posting there. It is legal to carry within the non-secured areas of an airport in Arizona provided that one does not approach the metal detectors.

There are a few restaurants and stuff around that don't allow carry and I don't patronize them, in fact, I make it a point to go in and tell them that I came to eat dinner and saw their sign and will not support them. I also let them know that I will mention it to everyone I talk to. Did just that in Clint Wells of all places a while back. Commie bastids...

Clint's wells at the gas station/restaurant, haven't been there in a few years but always ate there when I was.

Too bad.

Kent

Dead wrong there cowpoke...
Its a state law. Even previous to "constitutional carry" passage you could carry concealed in Phoenix with a shall issue CCW permit.

if you grew up west of flag, then that indicates williams, ashfork, seligman, or kingman.
telling my future son in law saturday while leaving williams i had been going up there since the 50's with my father.
love that little town.

Dennis you kidding about the joint in Clint's Well?

I haven't been up there in about a year and a half now, but that really bums me out to here. We have been stopping in there for years. My buddy owns a spread over near the Turkey Moutain Dam.

as to the ccw.
when that bill was first passed, while i objected to the need of the darn thing anyway, i decided to take the class.
It happened i took it from one of the guys that helped write the bill. It was done in such a way you would have to be pretty much a moron not to pass it, yet there are those who can't. That is interesting about clints wells, i would have never thought it a problem. Last year while elk hunting around williams went to breakfast one morning at a popular restaurant in williams. The whole restaurant was full of camo, and guns hanging all over the place.
Nobody thought it out of place.
Locally there are periodic dinners in the phoenix metro area where everybody shows up with open carry.
It might be more noticeable in phoenix to see people open carry, but you do and it is legal in most places. Outside of the metro area i would make the assumption that everybody is armed and would mostly be correct.
I have gone to periodic machine gun shoots around prescott where there was a half million dollars of firearms on the firing line. There is a small hill there that is slowly being turned into rock chunks by that mil surp ammo.
you would need to check but i do think we reciprocate with utah on the ccw.
i might add at a barbeque in chino saturday, a guy whips out a new ruger 9mm as he works for ruger, and passes it around.
I think most of the adult males there were armed or certainly had them in the vehicles.

Great to live in a free state isn't it.


So much for it being anything like L.A. in any way other than being "big"

I don't think much of that either, stopped at that place many times as my sister had a house just up the road.
one of the biggest bull elk i have seen in my life was on the side of the road blowing snot at me between there and the blue ridge ranger station.

I don't doubt Dennis a bit, just schitty if thats the case.

STFU... Kentuck is welcome, but all those other californicators will be headed over... it was just a jackrabbit, see... just a rabbit.

Kent

Was that the SR9c? Just got a note from Ruger today about the SR9c (slim, compact version) being named 2010 Handgun of the Year by the Shootng Industry Academy of Excellence.

"I like the area between Prescot and Yarnell" said Tracks.

I do too. Lived in Prescott for many years and found lots of nice quail hunting spots down that way, and even below the mountains toward Congress. Also very good javelina hunting in that entire area - especially with handgun - and good mule deer country as well. We see a whitetail occasionally. And, in more recent years, the elk that once moved into the PNF in the area beyond Thumb Butte in the 80s are dropping down the back side into the Skull Valley/Kirkland direction.

That area seems like the real west of cowboy film days. Bill Ruger had a really nice place out that way - was priviledged to visit him there once.

That all said, it is even nicer up here.

Grew up in Parks, about half way between Flag and Williams. Wore off many miles off boot leather and tire rubber exploring that area. Great place to grow up in the 70's and 80's. In fact I am heading back out there Friday night for 10 days with my son to do some shooting, camping, calling and scouting about 15 miles North of Williams. Drew a rifle bull tag in my home unit of 7W this year, and am really looking forward to another elk hunt back home. With any luck, I will be hanging a nice bull out of the same tree my son hung his first elk out of a few years ago, that being the same tree I hung my first elk out of 30 years ago as well. Some great elk camps out of that camp!

I apologize to everyone I was misinformed, I'm going off of 2nd hand info from a friend that lives in Williams. I would take Phoenix over southern California any day. As for hunting opportunities AZ hunting is much better and closer than what I get to deal with in the so cal area.

ML

If you have the coin, the best place to live in the Valley of the Sun is the Cave Creek, Carefree area, imo. Housing prices have fallen dramatically and are due to fall another 10% in the area. Good time to buy.

I was in Clints Wells several times this spring/summer. Went to scout out a spot for a scout camp in April and stopped in to have lunch. Signs posted all over. I let them know that I wasn't eating there and that this was a huge slap in the face to sportsman whom they were trying to make their living off of. I won't go back until the signs are down. I bought propane there in June and walked in with my Glock on to the little store and didn't get a single look but I won't step foot in the restaurant.

Roger, BLR358, sent me a list a while back of those that were anti-gun etc. I will see if I still have it.

Good to know Dennis, thanks for the heads up.

Kent

Man, I'd hate to live in a big city again, but a guy has to do what it takes to eat.

My vote goes for the north to northwest side. Gets you close to some great get-away country. Head on out past Wickenburg and you are getting closer to some great country.

Past Congress and the green frog (do they still paint it?), past the dry gulch where the crazy bastard with the yellow Ford, yellow teeth, and yellow hair keeps bees outside an abandoned mine, up Yarnell Hill and then Peeples Valley, Yava Pi, over to Skull Valley, on up to Prescott.

A guy can get in lots of therapeutic time in that part of the world. It helps make up for life in the big city.

Negotiate for lots of vacation time!

HOT!

yeah, it was. Had a very stiff main spring. The guy was saying there might be a few internal issues where some of the parts may need to be machined down. i'm not a big ruger pistol fan, feel the other way about the revolvers. But it seemed to be a pretty well put together gun. Enough that i would like to wring one out. The employees do have a perk, in that they can buy at cost a certain number of firearms per year. A lot of them do this and later sell them for a few bucks when they tire of them.

Nice perk. That would be especially beneficial in the rifle department.

+1 on the Ruger revolvers, and I have several Ruger rifles among my collection, as well, but my "most serious" pistols... are a Kimber Eclipse II (.45) and a H&K P2000 (40 S&W). If the chit's hitting the fan and I can't get to a shotgun, I'm grabbin' one of those.

Well, OK, a Kahr MK-9 Elite thrown in there, too, just for max concealability. Of course, a S&W Centenial-style 640-2 slipped into a pocket serves the same purpose, but I better not get started on the revolvers...

I was born in Tempe, a Phoenix suburb, and have lived in Arizona my entire life (56 years), mostly in Phoenix. I am now at a point in my life that I hate living here. As many posters have observed, the pollution, traffic, and crime are now out-of-sight, to say nothing of the transmogrification of Phoenix into Mexico Norte. In addition, the entire state seems to have been hijacked by carpetbaggers and Rinos (e.g., John McCain). I'm largely indifferent to the heat; I don't particularly like it, but it's something one simply grows accustomed to.

I'll admit that Phoenix is still preferable to, say, Gary IN or Detroit. However, when I think back on the Phoenix of the 1970's and earlier, I'm stunned at how much it's deteriorated from what it once was.

That's true of a lot of places... this will be a matter of going where the work is... and choosing the lesser of evils. At least it's close to some great country.

Tuco,

Reminds me of something Jack O'Connor said when asked why he never returned to his "beloved Arizona". He answered (loose quote here) "It would be akin to walking into a brothel and encountering an old high school sweetheart, my heart just couldn't bear to take it". And he said THAT in the 70's!

I feel much the same, with rampant ATV and other abuses, and the after effects being heaped on all of us via the Forest Service because of it in large part. Williams district of the Kaibab is getting a little out of control IMO, and our public lands are becoming less and less "public", but I'll digress from that rant.

But the connection to AZ is still too strong for me, and does feel like near paradise when I can get back home and out of Kalifornia, as I will be for a week starting tomorrow. But, hopefully when the time comes relatively soon that I can get out of here, I'll be seriously investigating New Mexico. Hopefully a bit more like the AZ of my younger days. Damn the things we took for granted back in the 70's in Arizona... But, still a damn site better than where I find myself presently.

I'll grant you that one.

I was there two years ago, on business, for about three months (Mar, Apr, May). Weather was awesome for outdoor activities.

They provided me with a rental car the entire time.

When I turned that car back in, they probably looked at the odometer and sold it!

I was gone nearly every day after work (hiking in the Superstitions was a favorite after work activity, or climbing Picacho Peak), and practically every weekend, from the Mexican border (literally shaking hands across the low fence with a friendly elderly Mexican rancher, me on my side, him on his side), to Tucson, to Sedona, to Flagstaff, to the Grand Canyon (had to be a tourist at least one day; couldn't be that close and not at least stop), and up into southern Utah (Bryce Canyon, etc).

You're right, there is some great country not far in most directions. Ironically, I did very little, recreation-wise, right in and around Phoenix though. I put a TON of miles on that car!

New Mexico IS great... but not a lot of jobs. And I'll happily take AZ. over SoCal.

well, you are just a youngin since i am 62. I tell people tempe is now where the gays live. I started at A.S.U. when i didn't have any sense, in 66 before all the concrete, and before i got smart and went to flagstaff. I can remember in the 50's coming down from prescott to my sisters house at 18st and thomas which was pretty much the edge of town, when the cities in the valley were actually separated. We use to take the bus down to central and the fox theater.
As to william ranger district, it is kind of funny. I got a brochure from them a couple of years ago explaining you were in bear country. If encountering a bear, you were supposed to shake a can with pebbles in it to discourage the bear.
One of the areas a lifelong friend of mine is interested in his northwest new mexico accross from springerville. Water rights ARE an issue but neat country. reminds me a lot of early arizona. Except you have to deal with the even more liberal politics there.

HaHaHaHa...Ron, you're probably right about Tempe being "where the gays live." I rarely go to that side of town and know very little about Tempe. I've never actually lived in Tempe, I just happened to be born there. As an aside, my mom was born in a house on 16th St. and Roosevelt.

Here is a list of friendly eateries..
http://thewilderness.com/ccw-friendly-az-eateries

Thanks Dennis, link has been saved.

I spent my freshman year at ASU (59-60). Then Army and a bunch of other colleges, ending up at Flagstaff for some graduate work in 71-72. Then some time in Tolleson and Page. I haven't been in any of those areas since the mid-70's

The other day I was looking at Tempe and Flagstaff in Google Satellite view. Almost nothing I remember is still there, except one place. The gun shop near the underpass in Flagstaff seems to still be there. I bought my first new rifle there, a Ruger 1B in 270 with a Leupold 2-7 scope. Funny, I can't even remember when I sold it.

I spent lots of years and miles in the northern and western deserts of AZ but I think I might be disappointed in many areas now.

Bruce

I spent my freshman year at ASU (59-60). Then Army and a bunch of other colleges, ending up at Flagstaff for some graduate work in 71-72. Then some time in Tolleson and Page. I haven't been in any of those areas since the mid-70's

The other day I was looking at Tempe and Flagstaff in Google Satellite view. Almost nothing I remember is still there, except one place. The gun shop near the underpass in Flagstaff seems to still be there. I bought my first new rifle there, a Ruger 1B in 270 with a Leupold 2-7 scope. Funny, I can't even remember when I sold it.
you would have been at n.a.u. the same time i was. As to the gun store, i think that is called ruff's.
I would assume you would remember the L.Q. or latin quarter bar right next to campus?
Beer was a dollar a pitcher on friday nights. About ten or so of us would go in there and order ten or fifteen pitchers.
Then go to the cafeteria for dinner.
Good thing i don't drink anymore.
that liquor store was called ruff's if i remember right. You get out of the cities it hasn't really changed much by the way

Ithat gun store was ruff's if i remember right, and i was on campus staying in sechrist same time as you were there.

I lived off-campus. A light green short Land Rover is what I drove then-usually parked on west side of campus in a vacant lot a bunch of students used for parking

I remember the bar but not the name.