Haven't seen any of them in years, but pretty sure that's what they were just a little while ago! Don't think it would have been B-1s

Don't know what their maximum altitude is, but they must have been right there.

Flying what would have probably been a straight line from Fairbanks to San Diego.

Two of them flying parallel but quite a way's apart, contrails streaming.

These things were so high, that they were almost passed and out of sight before you could hear the roar of the engines.


Phil

How many contrails, and how close together would tell you if a B1 or a B52

Maybe a couple of Russian Bears.

I remember My dad telling about a check flight and he wanted to light his pipe. After the third match just fizzled out he decided to put his pipe away and put on his oxygen mask.

Too high to really make out, definitely 2 planes flying side-by-side probably a couple miles apart. Definitely multiple engines on each of the wings but couldn't make out any more than that.

Remembered that NASA/USGS are supposed to be making some ultra detailed maps this year of all of California, Oregon, and Washington maybe its part of that...


Phil

Cool!
Not often that you see BUFFs flying these days, which is too bad.

Call Lee 24 - he'll know .

C 17s?
C 5s?

No we've got a bunch of both down here though, but they don't fly as high as these were. These things must have been 55,000 to 60,000 feet.

Didn't check to see what time it was, but would estimate it at between 5:30 and 6:00 p.m..

Couldn't make out any part of the planes, just two pairs of multiple contrails directly side-by-side probably (holding a ruler at arms length 4" apart).


Phil

GG,
Sure would have been nice to have a pair of 10 x 42's handy.

Dave

Yea, but as always they were burred in a cabinet. Besides I was Bs'in with the neighbor about the planes.

I'm sure someone will have the answer and chime in after awhile.


Phil

I know what you mean. Seems like a guy never has the right tool laying around when he needs it. When a couple of jets @ 60K are flying overhead it's tough to get to the bino's fast enough to get a look.

Dave

I keep a pair of 10x25 Leupold in the truck

Fluff,
Good idea. I loaned my pair of Steiner Predators last deer season to a good friend and haven't seen them since. They were my "truck" binos. Won't leave my Ultravids in the truck. I like to know where they are all the time.

Dave

I heard he was flying one of them.

Sometimes when hunting is slow, I will glass high flying jets with my Swaro. 10X42s. Amazing the detail you can make out on a 747 flying at 40,000ft.

Listed ceiling is 50,000'. Our Altitude Chamber rides took us up to 46,000' so the 50k is close. I shoot with someone who flew BUFF's as a pilot in SEA, I'll ask him next time we have a match.

You're half right. He was flying both of them...one with a remote control that he invented.

There was one here last weekend for the airshow- did some high speed low altitude passes for the press show Friday and again Monday when leaving. Static display during the show. Along with the B1B, they're one of the annual favorites.

The AF only has about a 100 B52s left in inventory..

I know they are suppose to still be stationed at Minot ND.. and Grand Forks ND..

Ellsworth AFB at Rapid City SD has B-1s...

60,000 ft seems a little high for a B 52 tho....

I think their max is about 50,000...

Wouldn't know a B-52 if I saw it at that kind of altitude. Saw a lot of them at about 300 feet (or less) to a couple thousand feet altitude growing up as a boy in Stanton, ND (on the big bend in the Missouri River, if you want to look it up on a map). Fuggers would raid Pierre or Omaha or Wichita Falls or someplace south of us, out of Minot, 100 miles north of me. Flying "Nap"... I think this was before the robotics- those boys were white-knuckling it! Early 60's, anyway.

Yeah, I know it was against the rules. Some one should have told those jet-jockeys..... I always figured the Russians were in deep doo-doo if they started anything...

Just north of town was a classmate's ranch/farm, which occupied a big bend in the Missouri River, maybe 1,000 or so feet (maybe noteve that much) above mean high river tide... (Part of the Missouri River Escarpment) The Buffers would have to gain altitude to clear the bluff... then they'd drop back down into the river valley. for them, it was aquickup and down motion.

One November, a couple buddies and I went to the Krieger place to ask permission to deer hunt. Forrest (my classmate Pam's dad), granted permission with, "Hold on a minute, boys - I'll go with you". (We killed two bucks, too - farmers have a pretty good idea of who is living where on their land.....)

Forrest went out to the nearest haystack for his .30-06.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the report that one of Minot's B-52's had turned up with a bullet hole in it a week or so before.... (It took us a couple days to make the connection....) but then, those NoDak farmers are a funny lot anyway- no accounting for their idiosycroncies (sp?) concerning gun storage and the like....

Those BUFs did tend to spook the Krieger cows, tho, when passing 100 feet overhead, appearing suddenly- almost magically, over the bluff's edge.... I was there once myself when one did. It left a lasting impression, not least of all on my underwear.... You don't hear the BUFs coming.... but that may have been Pam's fault.... I have to admit - I momentarily mistook that B-52 for Forrest. Thank God it was only a nuke-carrying end-of-the-world Air Force training mission! There's a bit of back-wash off those things...

I'd pretty much forgotten that incident until this thread. Thank you!

Forrest may have missed a marketing opportunity there.....tho I don't know how much market there would have been for " Organic B-52 Curdled Cow's Milk"

We were all pretty sure some of them, at least, (the planes) were carrying nukes at the time... the cows mostly weren't carrying anything extra after one of those incidents....

yeah seeing those B52s flying at Tree Top level at a high rate of speed was a site to behold.. sure made a lot of people soil their underwear...

I know they caused my bladder to leak a time or two...

and as you said, you never hear them until they are right on top of you...

and at a 100 feet above your head, that is a BIG aircraft...

Loved those big things.. tears me up to see all the ones destroyed for the Russian Satellites to see after they signed those SALT agreements in the 80s...

And a third covered with an invisible stealth paint he designed?

Back in the early 80's my dad and I would travel to the Green River Wyoming area-we would see B52s at low level almost every trip out there.
The best one I can remember was when we were fishing Flaming Gorge resevoir and a BUFF thundered right over us. Simply amazing!

Shhhh! That one is top secret. Now he'll have to kill you.

When I have time, I like to stop close to the runway in Bossier City, LA to watch the Big Boys come in. They are a majestic plane.

Whatever they were, they were below 50,000. Above that altitude, you have to wear a pressure suit (think space suit).

The Buff was and is an amazing plane, but the newest one still flying is older than anybody on the crew aboard it. No matter how well built, you just can't maintain an aircraft well enough to withstand the rigors of flight that long. Despite claims that they'll still be flying 50 years from now, I seriously doubt it. Like the SR-71, they'll simply get too expensive to maintain - if they aren't already.

I see and hear B-52s almost every single day. I am about 60 miles from Barksdale and lots of times their glide paths go right over my house or they will be gaining altitude going over on the way out. They are usually at fairly low altitude.

The thing about a B-52 is that they don't sound like any other aircraft that you commonly hear. The engines make a deeper rumbling roar than your standard jetliner. I'm not sure if it is the engines themselves or just the fact that there are eight of them instead or two to four. But, anyway all I have to do now is hear one and I know what it is. Sometimes I don't see them, but if I hear them, even when they are at high altitude, I know it is a B-52.

Dad did time in B-58's. They figured out awfully quickly that those were too expensive to maintain. Really cool, but expensive.

FC

The designers of the DC-3 would like a word with you. Well, they would if any of them were still alive.

Grew up in Grand Forks. Remember as a kid the rows and rows of 52's at the base along the highway.

Big impressive birds.

Spend a winter sweeping the snow off and de-icing one. It will cure your love affair with the big POS...

There used to be a Radar Bomb Scoring Site just North of the city of Bismarck. It was mostly used to score bomb hits of Nuclear Weapons but was used a lot for low level runs with Conventional weapons, Iron Bombs during the Vietnam Conflict.

We got caught with our pants down in Vietnam and had to convert the Buff to carry conventional weapons. And boy could it carry a bunch of bombs.

At this time we were dancing with the Russians and almost all our missions were thinking totally Nuclear. Every SAC, Strategic Air Command base had a B-52 in the air 24/7 as a stand against the Russians. It was called Operation Chrome Dome.

I have to agree with Barry Goldwaters analogy of the Vietnam War, "Nuke it and turn it into a Glass Parking Lot". That place was not worth 58 thousand plus American lives. So far we have lost less troops in the Afghan/Iraqi wars than we lost at Pearl Harbor.

I agree with Mr. Goldwater; when you fight an enemy, bomb the hell out of them and when all the enemy are standing on the ground waving a White Flag. send in the ground troops for "mop up operations" help the survivors set up a government and get the hell out".

Oh, by the way, one of the F-106's from the Fighter Interceptor Squadron at Minot took a plunge into Lake Sakakawea during an In-flight Emergency. The only crash the base ever experienced.

I was stationed in Minot off and on since 1960. If not the best, one of the best bases in the Air Force.

Sorry we can't offer White Sandy beaches and lovely year around temperatures, but we have great people and great hunting and fishing.

AND the State has an 800 million dollar surplus. Stick that in your nose.

Best wishes, Bill

Vietnam Veteran
Life Member NRA
Life Member JFPO
DAV

USAF 1958-1985

"AND the State has an 800 million dollar surplus. Stick that in your nose."

Don't let Obama find out. he'll find a way to take it from you.

Speaking of the B-58, We had one declare a Broken Arrow while I was stationed at Nellis AFB. I saw the plane land and they hustled (no pun intended) it to the most remote part of the field and immdeiately cover it with a huge tarp. I was working graveyard shift about a week later when it took off right at dawn. What a sight that was, four engine on full afterburners and damn near a vertical climeb to get out of sight fast I imagine.
There's a bunch of them stored at the airlpne graveyard here in Tucson. you used to be able to see them when you drove past on one road but now they have a big opaque fence so that thrill is gone. You just cannot imagine the billions of dollars sitting out there rotting in the desert sun.
We do have the Pima Air Museum though and I think they just might have a B-58 on dispaly now. At least they show one when they do one of their rare ads on TV. I'm gonna run out and see for myself once it cools down. The Pima Air Museum is one of the top ten aircraft museums in the U.S., in sixth place as I recall. You like BUFF's, we got about 6 of them. Maybe more. It's been a couple of years sice I went there. You can see them as you drive down the road. It's a cool museum if you like airplanes but take my word on this, go in the late fall, winter or early spring or you'll fry. Open tarmac ain't no fun when it 110 in the shade and there ain't no shade.
Paul B.

They have a B-58 at the Texas Air Museum in Galveston. It really isn't on display as that Hurricane Ike flooded the museum and they haven't got lots of their stuff back in top notch condition yet. But, it is back there and you can still see it pretty well, you just can't get it that close.

In the early 90's I was driving past the air base near Abilene, Tx, on my way to my deer lease, when a pair of B1's were doing touch and go's during the middle of the day. It was a beautiful sight, and I started to stop at the end of the runway to take pictures.

I considered that there were probably nukes on the base, and I had two rifles in the truck. Reluctantly, I decided it would have been unwise to stop there, even if it was a public highway. Doubtless I woulda had a minute before some very humorless types would have arrived. Not stopping was probably a real good decision...

We used to have a few B1's stationed at Mountain Home, Idaho(just down I84 from me) and they used to do touch and go's right over my business.
Pretty cool stuff-I happen to think the B1 is one of the best looking aircraft ever built.

My cousins husband was involved in testing the B-58. He taked of some high speed, low level runs.
When I was a kid I used to see the B-36s setting up to land at Carswell. Was interesting to hear those six prop engines going in and out of sync.
Strange sound.

Folically_Challenged I thought the B-58 Hustler was a neat
looking a/c. What was so bad about it. Speaking of B-52's
I did quite a few interceptor runs against them while LeMay
was the Big Gun at SAC. When Commanders change they wouldn' let us go against them. RCAF in northern Canada. Cheers NC

Here's a quick ditty from Wikipedia:

It had a much smaller weapons load and more limited range than the B-52 Stratofortress. The B-58 had been extremely expensive to acquire (in 1959 it was reported that each B-58A cost more than its weight in gold). Through FY 1961, the total cost of the B-58 program was $3 billion.[19] It was a complex aircraft that required considerable maintenance, much of which required specialized equipment and ground personnel. The B-58 cost three times as much to operate as the B-52.[20] This included special maintenance issues with the nose landing gear that retracted in a complicated fashion to avoid the center payload. It had an unfavorably high accident rate: 26 B-58 aircraft were lost in accidents, 22.4% of total production. It was very difficult to safely recover from the loss of an engine at supersonic cruise due to differential thrust. SAC had been dubious about the type from the beginning, although its crews eventually became enthusiastic about the aircraft; its performance and design were appreciated, although it was never easy to fly.

Here's a good starting point for info: Lt. Col. (Ret.) BJ Brown's B-58 Page

FC

This brings back memories. What an awesome aircraft. Spent 1986-1992 humping the flightline and later patrolling the alert areas at Griffiss AFB in upstate NY. Be standing there when they have a sortie and they fire up 8-10 of them along with the same amount of KC-135's. I've seen them launch one right after the other and it's amazing they can get off the runway, especially in the wake of anothers jetwash. I saw one take off right behind another and it was damn near vertical. I thought that I was goint to be a part of a crash response that day and how the pilot saved it I'll never know.

couple more

another

What's not to like about a MITO launch?

That's one time in your life your very carefull about calling "abort" cause if you do your gonna get run over by the aircraft behind you...

Ship #1 goes high left, #2 goes high right, #3 goes low left and #4 goes low right.

One old girl keep me alive in vietnam in '69 she never let us down!!!

I was referring to.."The designers of the DC3 may have something to say about it"......AC47 "SPOOKY"

one interesting thing I've always noticed about the buff in low altitude high speed passes is the noticeable nose-low attitude of the aircraft in clean configuration, straight and level. They look like they're losing altitude and ready to plow right into the ground. Oh, and the noise.......cool stuff....
The guys I've talked to at the show here absolutely love flying them.
When looking down the side of the fuselage, you can definitely see the cycles. We have KC-135's practicing approaches and landings here during the week, and I think they have all been re-engined to CFM-56 high-bypass turbofans. I would imagine such a program will never happen to the old buff, even though newer technology fan engines would mean four instead of eight. They would have done it a long time ago, had it been viable.

The BUFF's ("G" and "H") models were designed around the GE TF-33 engine which was pretty common at the time. The C-141 and the later versions of the EC/RC-135'5 also used the TF-33 engines. About the only difference was the C-141 had thrust reversers. The BUFF's have had their wings re-skined and IIRC the center-wing wing spars have been replaced. The "D" model BUFF ran P&W J-57's which were common with the KC-135A's and "Q" models. "Q's" were used for air refueling the SR-71's. The J-57 had 10,000lbs of thrust, 11,900lbs when in water injection. Thikin it would have been nice to work on the KC's once fans were installed. Heck of a lot more power without having to deal with heating water. The KC's with fans have also been re-skined in the wings and IIRC spar work done in the center wing area. I've seen pictures of test-bed BUFF's with a single engine on the strut, mostly for engine flight test work...

I would imagine that a CFM installed on a BUFF would be quite the vacuum cleaner, ala Boeing 737. Those large fans have a huge inlet area. From what I understand, the wing on the BUFF would be capable of such retrofits; I'm sure it came down to some appropriation committee shooting down any more additional money going into the fleet other than avionics upgrades.
Does the USAF still have B-52's stationed at Diego Garcia, or was that strictly a Gulf War thing?

Wanted to coment that there is a bombing range near Salina Ks. I've been working around there for about 2 months. I've seen B-52s, B-1s ,B-2s, A10s. and other fighter jets making prictice runs. Makes a person proud to see those guys fly by.

Ran into the retired BUFF driver at a Benchrest match this past Saturday. His experience included Chrome Dome and Arc Light missions. He remembers getting up to 46,000' once when they were light and in a hurry to get home, most missions were done around 45,000'

I believe Barksdale AFB is still flying the B-52 H models.

I loved the B-52, cut my teeth trouble shooting electrical systems on those babies my first 7 years in the AF, stationed at Fairchild and worked G and H models. They are a sight to behold when fully loaded with bombs and ALCM's. Watching them do MITO runs during an alert had everyone on the flightline stopping to watch.

B-52 has to be the best value for money planes the USAF has ever had..I wonder long they will keep them flying?

I dunno Pete. Pretty amazing, when you think about it, a plane that was designed and first flown when my dad was in elementary school(he is 65 now).

Anyone remember how many BUFF's we still have flying??

Those C-130 guys might argue that but it was a heck of a value for both!

'Bout the only GOOD thing about a klaxton that included rolling the tankers and bombers was that they fed us steaks that day. If we had "T" bones for lunch we knew we were in trouble. Steak for dinner and no horn... sleep in you flight suit cause there's one comming after dark.

Hated pulling alert. Tanker Crewchiefs have to jump inside and go along for the ride. If we had to taxi they'd park the BUFFS first. So we had to wait with engines running until all the BUFFS were backed into their parking spots. Got REAL warm in the cockpit during the summer. Then you'd have to reload the breech cap for the cart start and top off fuel. Durring the winter you had to go out and heat water in the Tankers every four hours. We always prayed for the temps to get below 20 degrees....

Had M-16's pointed at me more times than I care to think about while trying to get into the bomber alert area. Got put on the ground a few times because I forgot my password, idiot. Crawling along the bombbay crawlway while they were on the alert pad always was a fun experience wondering what would happen if a horn went off.

AJ300Mag, I hated that water heater system, seems that they were always broke though the cart start system was a pretty cool concept.

Unless you found yourself downwind of the engine when the cartridge was fired...

Even the "smokeless" would choke a billy goat.

And then some rocket scientist decided to put one on each engine for the Tanker and IIRC one for each engine pod on the BUFF. Never got lucky enough to be around when they fired all four at once. I think SAC saw their error in their ways.


Couldn't count on how many times I had to run engines for the electricians so they could do a load bank on the generators...

Remember the word for the day?

If I were the senior NCO Tanker Crewchief on alert I always drove the flightline truck. One day we were comming back into the alert facility, we were stopped between the two gates. One of the gates was always experiencing electrical problems. There were a couple of repairmen working on the gate. We all got out of the truck, swapped badges and searched the truck. We had just climed back into the truck when one of the other crewchief made a statement that it was about time they tried to fixed the gate. He said it's about time they made some "progress"... the word for the day. Next thing I knew someone yanked me out of the truck, threw me on the ground where I ended up with the muzzle of a M-16 inches away from my nose. I don't take kindly to ANYONE stickin a gun in my face!

After all said and done the other Crewchief knew full well how I felt about the situation.....