First of the year, 7:20 am.

At least someone has their priorities right. Good job.

Congrats. Looks like a Eastern!! Nice mass to the spurs!

very nice photo, love the bird and the iron

congrats

Nice pic. Who makes the hammer gun?

The gun is a William Cashmore - a Birmingham gun. It is a 12gauge and pretty much my - go to gun because it fits really well.

The bird is not a really big one. It tips the scales right at 21# and, yes, it is an Eastern. His spurs are only about 1" long and he is probably a 2-3 yrs old bird. The last four I have killed have had spurs in the 1.5"+ range and weighed over 25#. But this guy made me work, and it was a fine morning.

I think he will eat.

Nice bird. Iowa?

Is that beard as thick as it looks? Either way nice bird...

any Gobbler is a nice bird, especially the ones you have to work for. good job but don't you know you can't take a gobbler with that old hammer gun?

Nice bird.

Big bird, and nice gun. I did a doubletake because it looks alot like my old Meriden sxs.

Congrats Brent.

Nice going, B!

Argggh!!! The coyotes are having more luck than me. Maybe that's because they are out there when it counts.

Nice bird.

DH

Lots of coyotes around here. More than I have ever seen and the birds are doing the best I've ever seen even though the last 4 winters have been really really tough.

Foxes are up in some places - like my land, and that is holding birds down but wherever the coyotes are thick foxes and coons and opossums are way down. That's why the hatch success is

Seemed to be a lot of broadwings moving through this weekend, but it seems mighty late for them. You guys up north see broadwings yet? I would think they would be on nests by now. Maybe these are last year's juveniles.

Brent

That is a nice picture of a great outcome.

Are you suggesting coyotes are good for turkeys?

Yup. Just about all ground nesting birds do a little better where smaller predators (esp. foxes followed by raccoons are otherwise abundant). It has been documented just about every time anyone has worked to quantify it.

Cool! Nice heavy beard on him too. I have to wait two weekends until I get to go.

I like the shooting iron too.

Not the two that I've shot that were in my dekes....well, they're good for turkeys now.

They were good then too. Especially then, when the hens are on their nests and nest predation by coons and the like are putting the biggest hurt to the turkeys.

He did have a pretty heavy beard. Seems to be fairly common to have good beards in this area though. He is a nice bird but not an exceptional one. I was glad to take him after a long stalk, a short calling and both barrels. For some reason, he required a double dose.

I wish I was as confident in this belief as you are, however I remain skeptical until there is irrefutable evidence. From what I have read and interviewed research authors there is a lot of buts and maybes. The idea of the presence of coyotes providing some protection from other predators like fox and raccoon has come primarily from the waterfowl and songbird literature and is risky business to extrapolate that to wild turkeys.

Not so many buts and maybes that I've seen.

No extrapolation. It was found in the interaction terms of a PhD dissertation on nestling and fledgling turkey survival as well. It seems to work everywhere there are ground nesting birds - which is pretty much everywhere. Be skeptical as you want, but the data are clearly in the positive-effect camp when it comes to 'yotes and ground-nesting birds.

One of the apparent side effects near me has been that, with the rise in coyote populations in this area, foxes are really pulling in tight to human habitation. I have fox burrows within 30 yds of my front door, even though I have 3 60-70 lb dogs that run lose when we are home. We also have foxes working hard here on campus, even where buildings are 40 ft apart and sidewalks and undergrads are everywhere.

I would appreciate the source info on the PhD dissertation as this topic is of interest in the National Wild Turkey Federation chapter I belong to.

Agreed, the relationships about fox avoiding coyotes is well established in the scientific literature - the effects are both indirect (behavioral avoidance of coyote areas by fox) and direct (limited predation by coyotes on fox).

Wayne

Michael Hubbard, PhD, Iowa State University. I forget the exact year. Mid1990s. He is now (and has been for a long time) in Missouri's Dept Conservation or whatever they call their version of Fish and Game.

Probably also published in JWM, but I can't attest to exactly what all made it out of the dissertation and into journals as I was just a committee member, not his advisor (at least not on the PhD) nor co-author.

Coyotes may be good for nesting hens, but I have one of my honey holes that we have found 4 dead and partially eaten toms on in the last 3 years. Last year there were 2 adults laying 3 ft from each other just off a field edge. Never any hens though. I assume they were coyote kills because the place is THICK with them, but I suppose it could be bobcats. Never seen a cat though. I call multiple yotes in every year with the turkey calls. dam things.

Never said they don't eat turkeys when they can. Who doesn't?

But the net balance is on the positive side and that's what people lose sight of. And then you are "assuming" - that's generally a bad bad idea and hard to defend objectively to say the least. Could be dogs or trigger happy [bleep] or a bunch of things.

I've called them in many times with turkey calls too. But the net effect is the only thing that counts.

true. nice bird BTW.

Thanks for the source - will be following up on it.

Wayne

how many can you shoot in IA?

Two in the spring. There is also a fall season (1?) that I never take advantage of.

Brent

2011 doesn't suck...but you do!

Sweeeet hammer gun...gotta love it done "old school"..

Old school doesn't lose anything to "new school". So, why not?

When I go modern, I use my grandpa's 1897 Winchester...

Actually a full choke '97 shoots as tight a pattern as anything Ive ever seen....


Weren't you shooting som squirrels with cool stuff???

Life is very short, so I always do my best to use cool stuff - if you think custom Win 1885 low walls or #3 Ballards originals are cool stuff. I just like'em, and they work as good as anything out there. Don't think I've ever lost an animal that I could have taken with a spankin' new WhizBang SuperXXX.

PS. Those kinda toys do better than even when it comes to holding their value. I sold one last year that will pay for an AK moose hunt if I can just get one of my hunting partners suckered into this.

I have often wondered whether the recent increase of coyotes in our area had been one of the reasons we have had a dramatic increase in the local turkey population. I have seen fewer and fewer coons, 'possums, and foxes but more and more turkeys the last few years. Last year was the first time we have had huntable populations on my farm. This year has been wonderful for turkey hunting. Birds are everywhere.

I had three gobblers talking to me yesterday AM. None came a step closer. I suck at turkey hunting.

I suck too (ingwe said so! ). I finally decided, less is more. I call VERY VERY little. And I work hard to get close before the birds fly down. Then a few yelps before dawn, and one every 4-5 minutes just so they know I'm still there, and NONE after they fly down. But I don't trust them to walk very far to me 30-40 yds tops, so I get as close as I can.

That didn't work for this bird. My favorite roost trees blew down last year, so I had nothing to work with on Sunday morning. Then this guy opened up about a half mile away on the same property. I knew the area super well, and I realized that I could get close - 50 yds - without him seeing me. I didn't make a peep because I didn't want him to move to look my way, and crossed a ravine, scrambled up a log over a stream, and then side hilled until I was 5o yards from him. I got my gun up and THEN I called - two sets of 3 SOFT yelps, no more. And he was on the way. I tracked him to 35 yds and let him have it. He needed both barrels (that's a first).

Anyway, I usually use a box call that I made. It's in that picture. But for this guy, i had to use my mouth call because I had the gun up and cocked. The box call is a lot easier otherwise. I just yelp a few times. But I can gobble with it if I get desperate (when that happens I'm SOL anyway).

The guys that can call birds from half a mile - I can't even shine their boots. I'm a get close first hunter.

Fire ants and ground nesting birds.....bad combination.

Yeah, fire ants suck for sure. I spend 15+ yrs in the South.

Well, in west Texas the areas with sheep and goats (where coyotes are extremely rare to non-existant) typically hold 4 times more quail than the cattle country where coyotes are thriving. It's pretty easy to set snares under sheep fencing on coyote "dig unders". In the barbed wire country coyotes travel unimpeded. After hard hunting by predator callers a rancher can still often get the helicopter to kill a hundred or so coyotes that are needless to say "call shy". That's why i cringe when i see (even on tv) a miss. Strangely, the sheep country still abounds with bobcat and fox yet it still can produce the quail if rains are right. This is just my experience as a dog traning quail hunter since the early sixties and from the brush country of south texas through north and west texas and eastern new m. Now hawks will sit over where a covey lives or waters (and owls) and stay there till they clean them out. I know why the old-timers took time to pass shoot hawks in the spring and fall. dr rc

Congratulations. I like the shotgun too.

Oh, in fairly open country in the summer watch areas you routinely see the big hawks if turkey are around. They love the poults. A lot of west texas is short on trees unless you are at the ranch house and turkeys roost there and get a little docile unless a big hawk or owl moves in- then it's goodby turkeys. dr rc

If you guys like old guns, here is a bird I killed back in about 2003. The gun is a Scott & Sons Damascus 10 bore. I thnk it dates to about the 1880s.

And one more from last year with the '97. My grandfather killed prairie chickens in Iowa with this gun before his brother took it to Montana where he shot ducks and geese - there are MT licenses from 1917 and 1923 in the butt stock.

I took advantage of WI's fall season, but I didn't chase the birds specifically. I shot probably a dozen with my bow, while deer hunting. I shot one grouse hunting and busted up a flock (on accident) and called them back.

In WI fall season, you could shoot as many as you kept buying tags for. In the spring, it was a lottery and sometimes you get two tags, sometimes just one. Now you can buy left overs. I take advantage of that whenever possible.

I LOVE turkey hunting. I really get a charge out of bringing them in close.

Very cool picture!

Clearly, based on your spelling!

Love the old irons, Brent. Good on you.

Ya got me Leighton. Can't spell for crap, but mostly can't type.

Brent

Those old guns just exude class. Beautiful, and so very good to see them still in the field, still doing what they were designed to do.

It's ALL about the habitat.
If it's right enough for coyotes, it'll be good for turkey.

In NE Ohio the birds have actually driven back deer by cleaning up so much mast.

Do you have a liberal bag limit on the amount of turkeys you can take?

Brent, sorry if I have hijacked your thread, it's just that when there is a hint of a mesopredator reference I always want to learn more.

No highjack at all. No problemmo.

right now we are having heavy rain/sleet/hail and I'm more worried about that than predators of any type for mom's on eggs. I hope it won't last too long.

Our pheasants REALLY need some premo hatching conditions this year. Weather, not predators have been hammering them for the last 4 yrs, but the turkeys have been doing better every year so far.


Brent

This thread is proof that life is good, and life goes on, regardless of the craziness in our nation's capital and other parts of the world. It's great to be reminded.

No kidding.

We don't need this wet spring garbage.

Congrats Brent!

Nice birds and yes nice arms.
QDMA did an article a few years ago regarding the improvement of turkey populations when coyotes populations were higher due to exactly what has been mentioned (reduction of nest predators). I don't recall all the specifics but I believe it was a relatively controlled situation (perhaps even high fenced) utilizing trapping. I may be confusing the specifics with a more recent coyote/deer study. In either case, I don't care, I shoot every coyote I see, gladly. It's legal here 24/7/365 thankfully. As their positive affect on turkey populations is a documented fact (or at least conculsion), so is their affect on fawn recruitment. Coyote populations have really gone up in Georgia over the last several years. The turkey population is doing well and there is a marked decrease in deer population (we also went to an essentially unlimited doe season with 10 tags which undoubtedly had some affect).

For me there are too many inconstiencies in research results to absolutely conclude the coyote is benevolent across the wild turkey range. The predator prey relationship is to complex to generalize data applications with a wide brush. For example, the data is equivocal that the presence of coyotes has little effect on the raccoon predation of ground nesting birds. Direct killing of raccoons by coyotes is realtively infrequent and there is actually evidence that raccoons often are attracted to areas with coyotes with expectation that they will find carrion.

In short, the jury is still out.

Wayne

Further, if could be so bold as to speak anecdotally in my neck of the woods.

Turkey population is trending down from 2008.

Coyote population is steady - high.

Raccoon is steady - high.

Red fox is trending upward.

Skunk and oppossum is steady.

Is that anecdotal (i.e., WAGs), or is there actual evidence to support those positions?

No, Wayne, the jury is definitely not out (except on internet fora of course).

Coyotes don't have to kill raccoons to affect their foraging behavior. They only have to scare the [bleep] out of them. You can call this a Behaviorally Mediated Trophic Cascade Effect in polite company if you wish.

There are a lot of things that affect turkeys of course, and coyotes are just one of them. But on the whole the coyote effect will generally be positive. If you want to debate that you need better numbers than folks that make a living trying to figure these things out. It ain't armchair science (except on the internet of course )

Brent, do you know Dr. William R. Clark, Iowa State University, Department of Ecology, Evolution and Organismal Biology? If you do ask him if the benevolence of coyotes is settled.

Both

Yeah, I do. He is two doors down the corridor and also my next door neighbor.

I should add - he also got his turkey last weekend.