Got this in an email this morning. Might have been posted before, but no matter:


Interesting facts

A little history most people will never know.

Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall

"Carved on these walls is the story of America , of a continuing quest to preserve both Democracy and decency, and to protect a national treasure that we call the American dream." ~President George Bush

SOMETHING to think about - Most of the surviving Parents are now Deceased.

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.

Beginning at the apex on panel 1E and going out to the end of the East wall, appearing to recede into the earth (numbered 70E - May 25, 1968), then resuming at the end of the West wall, as the wall emerges from the earth (numbered 70W - continuing May 25, 1968) and ending with a date in 1975. Thus the war's beginning and end meet. The war is complete, coming full circle, yet broken by the earth that bounds the angle's open side and contained within the earth itself.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth , Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.


· There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

· 39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

· 8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.

· 12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

· 5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

· One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

· 997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam .

· 1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam .

· 31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

· Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

· 54 soldiers on attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . (I wonder why so many from one school?)

· 8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

· 244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.

· Beallsville , Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

· West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

· The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

· The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy�s assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

· The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

· The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.


For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters. There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

all those dead young Americans, not to mention the vast number of dead Vietnamese. What a legacy, for helping France try to keep their colonial empire.

May God bless them all.

Thanks, Bro.

Every time I see these numbers I think of all the young men and women that never got to experience marriage,raising families and the joys of grand children.After all these years I still can't understand why some were taken away so swiftly while others of us survived..guess God only knows the answer to this one.

Damn...

France was long gone by then...



May 68 was the month I lost my brother, and Mom and Dad, their son, Gary. Not much time goes by I don`t think of him.

It ALWAYS hurts to see that Wall.

Sorry but just not seeing this, in fact I posit we did the exact opposite. Quite the contrary, we pressured the French, Brits and the rest of the European colonial powers into giving up their colonies obsessed with that Nation-building nonsense, then wehn corrupt governments fell, the vacuum was filled by the communists forcing us to intervene. We did it there, in Iran in 54 with the Brits, Suez in 56 with the Brits and French and the most egregious, our betryal in Rhodesia. Had we left that stuff alone or at best help out the colonial powers, these transitions might have been easier--and far less costly for us. Our involvement in Vietnam had nothing to do with colonialism and everything to do with the Cold War and Soviet expansionism. jorge

Only about one in three people who went to Vietnam actually saw any combat at all. Of the third who did, most came home alive and uninjured.

But all deserve credit. Whether they volunteered or were drafted to go, they served. Yes, there were some bad apples, but most served honorably and with a sense of responsibility towards those they supported. I owe my life to mechanics, radio operators, supply people, cooks, police, clerks, and even the poor malcontents who were punished by being put on the [bleep]-burner detail. They're ALL my brothers and sisters.

It is so easy to ignore the fact that each of the names belongs to a person whose life meant so much to so many others.

First, thank you all for your service. I was surprised to see 15 and 16 y/o's within the information....how does someone so young get into the service in a combat role?

Here is some additional stats and details. Although some is repeated.

Largest per-capita Loss


Beallsville, Ohio (pop. 475) gained unwanted national attention between 1966 and 1971 by having suffered the largest per-capita loss of life in the Vietnam War. Six young men lost their lives in the war, a terrible and profound loss for this small town.
Highest State Casualties


West Virginia had the highest casualty rate in the nation, according to the U.S. Department of Defense. The state had 711 casualties -- 39.9 deaths per 100,000 people. Oklahoma had the second-highest casualty rate.



Highest High School Casualties


Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia sustained the largest number of Vietnam war casualties of any high school in the nation with 54.



The Marines of Morenci


They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest. And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.
Robert Dale Draper, 19, was killed in an ambush.
Stan King, 21, was killed less than a week after reaching Vietnam.
Alfred Van Whitmer, 21, was killed while on patrol.
Larry J. West, 19 was shot near Quang Nam.
Jose Moncayo, 22, was part of an entire platoon wiped out.
Clive Garcia, 22, was killed by a booby trap while leading a patrol.




The Buddies from Midvale


LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam..
In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy�s assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day. Three hallmark all-American days. Three more names to be placed on the The Wall



The First and the Last
The first American soldier killed in the Vietnam War was Air Force T-Sgt. Richard B. Fitzgibbon Jr. He is listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having a casualty date of June 8, 1956. His name was added to the Wall on Memorial Day 1999.
First battlefield fatality was Specialist 4 James T. Davis who was killed on December 22, 1961.

The last American soldier killed in the Vietnam War was Kelton Rena Turner, an 18-year old Marine. He was killed in action on May 15, 1975, two weeks after the evacuation of Saigon, in what became known as the Mayaguez incident.
Others list Gary L. Hall, Joseph N. Hargrove and Danny G. Marshall as the last to die in Vietnam. These three US Marines Corps veterans were mistakenly left behind on Koh Tang Island during the Mayaguez incident. They were last seen together but unfortunately to date, their fate is unknown. They are located on panel 1W, lines 130 - 131.

The last pilot casualty in the country of Vietnam occured during the Embassy evacuation in Saigon, William C. Nystal and Michael J. Shea both died on the helicopter on April 30, 1975 approaching the USS Hancock in the China Sea (both are located at 1W, 124). The last pilot killed in the Vietnam war was Air Force helicopter pilot Second Lieutenant Richard Vandegeer who was killed on Koh Tang Island, Cambodia. This occured during the Mayaguez incident when his helicopter crashed on May 15, 1975. It is concidered the last combat action of the Vietnam War.

The youngest Vietnam KIA is believed to be Dan Bullock at 15 years old.
The oldest person on the Wall is Dwaine McGriff at 63 years old.
At least 5 men killed in Vietnam were 16 years old.
At least 12 men killed in Vietnam were 17 years old.
There are 120 persons who listed foreign countries as their home of record.
At least 25,000 of those killed were 20 years old or younger.
More than 17,000 of those killed were married.
Veterans killed on their first day in Vietnam 997 (unconfirmed)
Veterans killed on their last day in Vietnam 1,448 (unconfirmed)
Number of Chaplains on the Wall -- 16 (2 Medal Of Honor)
Number of Women on the Wall -- 8 (7 Army, 1 USAF - 7,484 served)
There are 226 Native Americans on the Memorial.
There are 22 countries represented on the Memorial.
Most common name on the Memorial "Smith" with 667 veterans.
The most casualties for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 casualties.
The most casualties for a single month was May 1968, 2,415 casualties were incurred.



Sgt. Robert G. Davison of Muskegon, Michigan joined the Marine Corp at the age of 14. He had four years of service in the Marines when he was shipped to Vietnam at age 18. Robert was KIA on Dec 17, 1966 one day before his 19th birthday.

Corporal William T. Perkins Jr. of Sepulveda, California was a Marine combat photographer. He is the only military photographer to be awarded the Medal of Honor. He was killed in action on October 12, 1967.

Corporal Thomas W. Bennett of Morgantown, West Virginia was a U.S. Army medic and was the only conscientious objector to be awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam war. He was killed in action on February 11, 1969.

BUDDIES:
Steven E. Amescua and Anthony J. Blevins joined the Marine Corp on the buddy plan. Steven was KIA May 15, 1968 and Anthony was KIA August 23, 1968.

John A. Jensen and Charles D. Turnbough were buddies who graduated from high school together and joined the Marines together. John was KIA August 27, 1967 and Charles was KIA three days later on August 30, 1967.

BROTHERS:
Brothers Charles and Philip Tank were both killed in Vietnam. Charles on April 19, 1969 Philip on September 12, 1968.

Brothers Kenneth and Paul Olenzuk were both killed in Vietnam. Kenneth on December 25, 1967 and Paul on August 10, 1968

Brothers Marlin and Norman Eversgerd were both killed in Vietnam. Marlin on March 19, 1967 and Norman on August 18, 1968

Brothers Bennett and Dennis Herrick were both killed in Vietnam. Bennett on March 25, 1968 and Dennis on August 02, 1970

Brothers Gabriel and Paul Trujillo were both killed in Vietnam. Gabriel on February 23, 1971 and Paul on November 04, 1971

Brothers Benjamin and Francisco Montano were both killed in Vietnam. Francisco on April 08, 1967 and Benjamin on May 15, 1969

Brothers James and John Rowden were both killed in Vietnam. James on March 05, 1966 and John on February 10, 1968

Brothers Michael and William Francis were both killed in Vietnam. Michael on September 30, 1967 and William on March 09, 1970

Brothers Robert and Steven Gaftunik were both killed in Vietnam. Robert on August 25, 1969 and Steven on March 27, 1968

Brothers Rudy and Stanley Sagon were both killed in Vietnam. Rudy on December 10, 1965 and Stanley on May 20, 1966

Brothers Robert and Phillip Wyatt were both killed in Vietnam. Robert on July 10, 1967 and Phillip on May 28, 1968

Brothers Samuel and William Nixon were both killed in Vietnam. Samuel on March 21, 1968 and William on May 8, 1968

Brothers Kirby and Lanny Hamby were both killed in Vietnam. Kirby on June 8, 1968 and Lanny on October 14, 1969

Brothers John and David Banks were both killed in Vietnam. John on March 28, 1966 and David on April 21, 1969

Brothers George and James Wright were both killed in Vietnam. George on May 21, 1967 and James on May 31, 1969

Brothers Donald and Cordis White were both killed in Vietnam. Donald on March 5, 1967 and Cordis on September 18, 1969

Brothers Clyde and Edward Withee were both killed in Vietnam. Clyde on February 5, 1966 and Edward on October 6, 1970

Brothers Richard and Larry Land were both killed in Vietnam. Richard on May 18, 1967 and Larry on March 28, 1971

Brothers Robert and Harold Musselman were both killed in Vietnam. Robert on October 25, 1967 and Harold on March 3, 1969

Brothers David and Otis Morgan were both killed in Vietnam. David on January 20, 1969 and Otis on January 28, 1970

Brothers John and Dana Jensen were both killed in Vietnam. John on August 27, 1967 and Dana on April 17, 1969

Brothers Stephen and Stanley Barrett were both killed in Vietnam. Stephen on January 25, 1968 and Stanley on October 3, 1970

Brothers Steven and Randy Mathias were both killed in Vietnam. Steven on July 2, 1967 and Randy on June 18, 1968

Brothers Roger and Stanley Herrell were both killed in Vietnam. Stanley on November 1, 1968 and Roger on July 29, 1969

Brothers James and Kenneth Stutes were both killed in Vietnam. James on June 6, 1970 and Kenneth on July 5, 1967

Brothers Lane and Joseph Hargrove were both killed in Vietnam. Lane on April 21, 1968 and Joseph on May 15, 1975

Brothers Edmund and Michael Travis were both killed in Vietnam. Edmund on June 27, 1967 and Michael on June 7, 1968

Brothers David and Norman Evans were both killed in Vietnam. David on October 24, 1968 and Norman on November 24, 1970

Brothers Juan and Arthur Garcia were both killed in Vietnam. Juan on Nov 20, 1967 and Arthur on February 7, 1970

Brothers David and John Greeson were both killed in Vietnam. David on Nov 7, 1969 and John on July 22, 1968

Brothers Leonard and Byron McQuinn were both killed in Vietnam. Leonard on Sept 5, 1966 and Byron on Feb 24, 1969

Brothers Rodrick and Garland Whalen were both killed in Vietnam. Rodrick on October 1, 1966 and Garland on January 31, 1969

Brothers Marvin and Darwin Gordon were both killed in Vietnam. Marvin on September 17, 1967 and Darwin on March 24, 1968

Brothers Charles and Clifford Johnson were both killed in Vietnam. Charles on February 8, 1968 and Clifford on December 26, 1970

Brothers Budd and Charles Hood were both killed in Vietnam. Budd on February 28, 1967 and Charles on August 12, 1969

Brothers Wayne and Fred Traylor were both killed in Vietnam. Wayne on May 11, 1966 and Fred on June 12, 1969

Brothers Ronald and Thomas Kustaborder were both killed in Vietnam. Ronald on Feb 25, 1968 and Thomas on Feb 14, 1969

Brothers John and Harold Ritch were both killed in Vietnam. John on Nov 10, 1968 and Harold on Nov 12, 1971

Brothers Ronald and Edward Keglovits were both killed in Vietnam. Ronald on Aug 26, 1967 and Edward on Mar 30, 1967

STEP BROTHERS:
Richard Earl Sipes and Raymond Omer Kincannon were step brothers and raised together in Chula Vista, CA. They were both killed in Vietnam. Richard on Dec 29, 1966 and Raymond on April 1, 1968

FATHER AND SONS:
Richard B. Fitzgibbon Jr. was killed June 08, 1956 his son Richard B. Fitzgibbon III was KIA September 07, 1965.

Leo Hester Sr. Died March 10, 1967 in a aircraft crash his son Leo Hester Jr. was KIA November 02, 1969 also in a aircraft crash.

Fred C. Jenkins Died April 2, 1968, his son Bert M. Jenkins was KIA April 28, 1969. (unconfirmed)

FATHER NOT ON THE MEMORIAL WITH SON:
Although both father and son served in Vietnam during the same time frame, the father is not on the Memorial. Lt. Rex Chrisman, US Navy, died of a heart attack while assigned on the USS Estes that was being serviced in Bangkok. The ship was waiting for its next maneuver to the China Sea. His son, PFC Rex G. Chrisman took his father back home for burial. Returning to Vietnam, Rex was killed a month later.


Number of living whose names are etched on the �wall� in error? TWELVE!

Names Added to Memorial: Since 1997 88 names of veterans who have died due to their wounds received during the Vietnam war have been added to the Wall. The latest names added are listed below.
Added 2005
Army PFC Thomas Joseph Conners
Army Sergeant Richard Edward Daly Jr.
Army PFC John Harold Berg
Army PFC William Ellis Browning

Added 2006
Army SP4 Bobby Gene Barbre
Marine Lance Cpl. George Bryant Givens Jr.
Marine Pfc. Hans Jorg Rudolph Lorenz
Marine Capt. Robert Patrick Rumley Jr.


Added 2007
Army SP4 Wesley Alvin Stiverson
Army Sergeant Richard Monroe Pruett
Navy Fireman Apprentice Joseph Gerald Krywicki


Added 2008
Army SP4 Dennis O. Hargrove
Marine Lance Cpl. Richard M. Goossens
Army SP4 Darrell J. Naylor
Marine Lance Cpl. Raymond C. Mason


Added 2009
Marine Gunnery Sgt. Enrique Valdez


Added 2010
Marine Cpl. Ronald M. Vivona
Army LT. COL. William L. Taylor
Army Sgt. Michael J. Morehouse
Army Capt. Edward F. Miles
Marine Lance Cpl. Clayton K. Hough Jr.
Marine Lance Cpl. John E. Granville


Added 2011
Army SPC Charles J. Sabatier
Army SPC Charles Robert Vest
Army Sgt. Henry L. Aderholt
Navy ETR2 Richard Lewis Daniels
Navy BT3 Peter Otto Holcomb


In Memory Day Since the war in Vietnam came to an end, there has been a growing sense among many veterans and their families that those who served in this nation's longest war have suffered and are continuing to suffer premature deaths related to their service. These deaths have been attributed to exposure to Agent Orange, post- traumatic stress disorder, and a growing list of other causes.
The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund's In Memory Day program honors those who died as a result of the Vietnam War, but whose deaths do not fit the Department of Defense criteria for inclusion upon the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C. Every year there is a ceremony to pay tribute to these men and women who sacrificed so much for their country. The ceremony is held on the third Monday in April � In Memory Day.

To learn more visit the In Memory Program website.

Jimmy Nakayama from Rigby, Idaho is on that wall. I graduated from high school with him. He was an excellent athlete, and built like a wedge.

You can see his story as one of the sub-plots in We Were Soldiers. I didn't know that until I loaded the movie on my iPhone, to watch on a long flight. Seeing the portrayal of him dying (actually from phosphorus, not napalm) upset me to the point I had to turn it off for a while.

Every one of them was someone's son, daughter, brother, sister. God bless everyone who served.

BTW, the part about Jimmy becoming a father in the movie was only part of the truth. When drafted, he left behind two pregnant girlfriends. That was a bit awkward.

I knew 7 of those guys on the wall.

Years ago I started counting the guys from my rural Mo. county (Lincoln) who did not make it home - that I knew about. Considering the population of that county, if you extrapolated that casualty rate to the rest of the country the casualty numbers would have been even more horrendous. Well in to the 6 figure range.

Not to take anything away from the brave souls who served from urban areas at all, but that little math exercise was sobering.

Yep, and one thing left out of those stats is the fact that fully 10% of those are helicopter aircrew.

Read somewhere that the 1st Cavalry Division lost several
helicopters the first couple of weeks they were in country.

Oh yeah

And a few in November as well!

That's a fact. Vietnam was a hot war in the context of the larger Cold War, which also claimed LOTS of lives, both in combat and training.

Fixed wing losses were staggering as well:

Air Force: 2197

Navy: 854

Marines: 271

Total fixed wing fatalites, not including passengers aboard: 3322

Also saw some stats on small arms that were lost or left behind
when Saigon fell. Cant remember where or when I read it though.

That's about as sad as it gets.

Found the other I was looking for:

Fixed wing losses, Army: 305 aircraft

Rotary wing losses: 5086 aircraft

Sad indeed.

I have that in one of my books but cant find it right now. The figure of 900,000 M-16's sticks in my mind.

when John F. Kennedy, and his successor Lyndon Johnson got us into that war, we were all feeling like Patriots.

Affirmation Viet Nam was something that the Johnson group pushed back in '66 and '67. Defense Secretary McNamara was milking the American public for every ounce of blood they could squeeze from the Patriotic community.

a high school graduate i graduated with was kilt in Vietnam in 1968. a volunteer type, he served well. i remember him and give honor to his service.

it's a shame that skirmish and dirty little SE Asian war ever occurred, but it did.

President Nixon got us out that mess. he deserves an immense amount of credit.

Gus,

Shut the [bleep] up.

After the statements you made about some of our Vietnam HEROS, you can STFU.

I could barely read through the first post, it puts a perspective on the numbers that just make you feel terribly sick.

Thanks to All of Those who Served Back Then - and Now.

Stephen

if you can't do anything positive except attack the messenger, then i'm sorry for you, bro.

i served during that inopportune time in our Nation's history. w/the First Cavalry Division..working with the Doctors caused me to see the world in a different light.

may you also be so blessed, while still breathing air down here on the Earthen.

Speaking of fixed wingers, I'll mention FACs.

From Wikipedia: During the Vietnam War, FACs participated in every major military action against the enemy except the strategic bombing campaign against North Vietnam.[49] American fighter-bombers dropped over four times the weight of bombs dropped in all of World War II�nine and a half million tons. Laos became the most heavily bombed country in history. All fighter-bomber ordnance dropped in that nation was directed via forward air control. Much of the bombing in South Vietnam and Cambodia was also FACed; so was the bombing in southern North Vietnam.[50] A total of 338 USAF forward air controllers were lost in action.

The only correction I'll make to that is that it wasn't just "Much" of the bombing in South Vietnam that was controlled by a FAC, but ALL. The Rules of Engagement were that no bomb could be dropped in SVN unless under the direct control of a FAC, either airborne or on the ground. For almost all of those nine and a half million tons of bombs, a FAC flying overhead gave specific clearance.

Here's a webpage by my acquaintance Tom Pilsch, fellow O-2 driver. FAC

THANK YOU to ALL the Veterans of Vietnam.

To those that did not make it home. Rest in Honored Peace.

Has anyone googled Vietnam fact vs fiction before? Lots of
stats on there.

The first person KIA where i grew up in Lee County , VA was Wesley Rasnic . I was still in High School.

OLEN WESLEY RASNIC


PFC - E3 - Army - Selective Service
1st Infantry Division

Length of service 1 years
His tour began on Jul 28, 1965
Casualty was on Jan 20, 1966
In , SOUTH VIETNAM
Hostile, died of wounds, GROUND CASUALTY
GUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE
Body was recovered

Panel 04E - Line 80

Jim Wilson's second book he has chosen to tell a story of the toll of the war on a single community: Bardstown, Kentucky.

quote:


Bardstown has the setting for such a story. A town of less than 6,000, where lives are intertwined by connections of kinship, friendship, and geography. A town with a fierce independent streak, illustrated by its tradition of manufacturing moonshine whisky (today, licensed distilleries still produce Maker's Mark and Jim Beam bourbons). And a town imbued with a martial spirit, symbolized by the nearby armored calvary center at Fort Knox.

Bardstown has the history for such a story. Though never a community of more than a few thousand, it has sent more than its share of men to war. Fifty men from Bardstown joined the volunteers who followed Sam Houston and Davy Crockett from Tennessee to help Texas win its independence. One man returned. Bardstown's sons divided to fight on both sides in the War Between the States; its volunteers fought in Cuba, World Wars I and II, and Korea.

More important, beginning on April 11, 1968, Bardstown would produce the narrative for such a story. That was the day Lyndon Johnson's secretary of Defense, Clark Clifford, announced a call up of 24,500 reserves and National Guardsmen--105 of them from Bardstown--10,000 of whom were to ship out to Southeast Asia immediately, since Tet had consumed the resources of our standing army and the country was being asked to give more. Wilson quotes the editor of the town's weekly newspaper, the Kentucky Standard: "...[W]e supported the idea because we felt like it was the thing to do. After all, you have a national administration that has a lot more information than you have, so, more or less, you put your faith in your leaders."

The perversity of the summons in April 1968 is enormous considering the historical moment. For this call-up came after Clifford had decided the war was unwinnable after the critical White House meeting of the Wise Men on March 26 that finally convinced President Johnson that we had to get out of Vietnam; and after LBJ had withdrawn from the 1968 presidential campaign. These men--the boys from Bardstown and from so many other towns and cities--were innocents conscripted to die in a war their government, at the highest levels, had secretly decided was lost.

At the time, the call-up changed the nature of the impression Vietnam made on many communities because it took men not individually but in unitsized groups. On a small town like Bardstown, for example, taking 105 men in one blow was devastating . The fabric of that tightly woven place was suddenly ripped apart as young fathers, husbands-to-be, college students, craft apprentices, and entrepreneurs were shipped to Fort Hood, Texas. The men of Battery C of the 113th Artillery from Bardstown were suddenly on their way to fight in a war they hardly knew beyond the flickering images on television at the evening news hour. Wilson describes it as a belated announcement of the war: "Bardstown would become a symbol of how deep into America the war had reached, and few, if any, communities in this land felt the impact of the war as did the people here."

In Vietnam the 113th Artillery became known as a spirited and effective unit. ... On June 19, 1969, on a hill called Fire Base Tomahawk , Viet Cong troops attacked the base with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47s. Explosions ripped the ammunition storage area, bunkers, weapons pits, ammunition carriers, trucks, and artillery pieces. In a matter of minutes in that furious melee in the darkness, 10 men in Battery C were killed and 45 wounded. Half of the dead were guardsmen from Bardstown.

Within days, first one and then another olive drab army car appeared driving slowly through Bardstown's streets. Each carried two officers, one an Army chaplain. Word spread that something terrible was visiting the community.

"People actually positioned themselves at the roads leading into Bardstown from Fort Knox, and if an Army sedan with two officers in it showed up, they'd call ahead and alert the townspeople that more bad news was coming," one resident recalls. "Then someone would follow them to see where it stopped, and it wasn't but 10 minutes later that the whole town knew about it."

Before the claim on Bardstown would be complete, Vietnam's toll would be 16. Five of those died in the single action at Fire Base Tomahawk; by some accounts, that figure ought to be six--the mother of two casualties shot herself to death with a shotgun at home after the news came.

As Wilson writes in a defining vignette, a member of Battery C some years later "[S]tood before the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, D.C. As he made rubbing after rubbing of names on the wall, a woman ventured forward and asked, 'Sir, you couldn't possibly know all those people.'

"'Yes, ma'am,' he answered, 'I surely do. I know every one of them personally.'" un-quote

Sycamore

+1

To any POW's, YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN!

You are a cheap shootin', hit-and-run, cowardly, old bitter [bleep]....

BTW Manlicker what the [bleep] did you ever do for your country?

....Outside of making several divorce lawyers rich?

France left Vietnam in 1954.

Mannlicher, how can you write such blatant falsehoods?

Thanks to jorgeI and Take_a_knee for pointing it out.

I thank all who served/serve from the bottom of my heart. I am almost 47 and I can still remember sitting watching evening news with my Dad (WWII navy) and hearing the casualty reports every [bleep] night...I was just a little boy but I can still here them in my mind...."and in combat action today in Viet Nam...X killed, X wounded, and X missing" . Cronkite, Huntley, all the big names reading the network news...eerie to this day 40+ years later.

Because Cronkite, Huntley, etc., were liberals hoping to stir up remorse and/or hate of real Americans, who were serving in Nam. And must keep in mind, that while it means a lot to a lot of people, the Vietnam Memorial was NOT meant to list those who died in Vietnam and honor them, but to make people just see the numbers and names and come away with a "no more wars" attitude. In that sense it was meant as a put down of those who served and died there. In case you forget who was behind it, it was John Kerry's bunch, the Vietnam Vets Against the War. What those people can never understand is, those of us who served (I wasn't in Nam, had been discharged before it heated up, but was in on the Cuban blockade etc), are the ones who really want no more wars, because we see what goes on, and are the ones fighting in them. I don't know of a more pacifist type of person than a good military person. I think I speak for most military people when I say I'd love to see the world get along, and there be no more wars.

I read something that there was a saying, the worst of ours went North.
The best of theirs went South.

An obvious reference to draft dodgers.

Knowingly or unknowingly you help keep alive the lie that Viet Nam was the wrong war.
To help you get it straight so that you will not continue to dishonor those that died there or those of us who served there...........
After WW II the world was exhausted and bankrupt. The French did decide to try to regain her colonies. The world did little to stop France but at the same time was watching as communism spread thru tiny destroyed countries.
France by her presence in Indo-China was a stop gap.
France left the region after their defeat in 1954 by the communists led by Uncle Ho who was supplied arms by Red China and the Soviet Union.
In 1954 the treaty of Geneva was signed dividing Viet Nam into a northern and southern region (among other things). There was a one year "open border" to allow citizens to relocate. Over one million people fled the northern region(communist).
In 1955 SEATO was formed and signed. The South East Asian Treaty Organization - it was based upon the NATO plan to stop the spread of communism.
The US signed the treaty pledging to come to the aid of any signatured member.

We kept our word by going to the aid of the Republic of South Vietnam when they could no longer stop THE INVASION of their country by the organized armies of North Vietnam. The Viet Minh were just a toy of the NVA.

My generation of American youth went to defend a country being invaded by a hostile country that was itself being aided by Sino-Soviet forces.
Much the way our fathers did in their war against Japan,Germany and Italy.

You understand that a little clearer?

I knew several that are listed there.
( I came from a fast growing suburb of Cleveland that still has only one , huge HS)
But the one that still brings me to my knees is
David Weber. A guy who sat next to me in homeroom for three years.
We attended post graduation parties together... drinking beer and chasing skirts..
and the next thing I knew he was gone.

We were never real close in school, as we took different paths,
but when I found his name on the wall on a hot summer day, all of the times we did spend together came back.
RIP Dave and all the others who gave it all

Chapped lips has it nailed. Mannlicher,if that is really how you think,then your own word of honor is meaningless.

Let's cut Mannlicher a little slack. He's not completely wrong in what he said. True, our involvement in 'Nam wasn't at all related to helping France's doomed attempt to reformulate an empire. But we were hard on France's heels in fighting there. They were driven out in '54 and we already had people there in '56.

War is indeed a horrible thing, but it isn't the worst thing. There comes a time when war is the only way to prevent something worse. What we as a nation screwed up in 'Nam was in not fighting to win. We pulled our punches and allowed the enemy to rest and rebuild at crucial times. Believe me, we could have stomped the enemy into its own red dirt if our politicos had allowed us to. They didn't.

Causing the unnecessary deaths of thousands of young American boys. I have not the ability to voice my anger at our Government because of this.

The totality of the unnecessary deaths have yet to be determined. There are hundreds of thousands of Viet Nam Veterans that are currently experiencing and who have yet to experience the effects of agent orange exposure. There are dozens of serious cancers that are life shortening and many effects that cause hundreds of dollars of monthly medical costs. The US Veterans Administration is getting better, but has many improvements to make in careing for these Veterans.

An Excerpt from a news story back in 2006:

"For three decades George Bryant Givens Jr. used a wheelchair, the scar tissue over his torn-up insides developed an inoperable cancer that killed him in 1994 at the age of 46-28 years after he was shot. It has taken his daughter Kate Martin two years to prove to the military that his death was related to his service in Vietnam.".....
**********************************************

I feel honored to say George Jr. considered me among his many, many friends.

chapped_lips has provided a nice concise summary of the political processes behind our involvement in the Viet Nam war. Rocky has correctly pointed out that we could have won that war handily if our armed forces were not fighting with both hands tied behind their backs under ridiculous rules of engagement generated by know-nothings in Washington.

One of the realities of The Draft that is largely forgotten in this day and age is that individual local draft boards had wide latitudes in determining who deserved a deferment and who did not. Some boards considered it their patriotic duty to send as many of their local boys into the service as possible and would deny even the most reasonable reasons for deferment. These local boards, or sometimes only one hawkish person on a board, could be responsible for sending a highly disproportionate number of young men to Viet Nam. As a result you see certain towns and counties with disproportionately high casualty numbers following those draft boards' terms.

I think we need to consider this piece of history before we condemn all "draft dodgers" as low-lifes and cowards. Some young men in America at that time were literally looking down the barrel of a VC gun on their 18th birthdays due to the aggressiveness of their local draft boards.

I knew a guy from South Dakota who was a draft dodger when I was in college in Canada. IIRC, he came up in 1969. His local draft board denied his student deferment (he was an honors student on a scholarship from his town, pledged to get his teacher's degree and return to his home town as a term of the scholarship). His draft board was one of those determined to out-do the rest of the country by sending every able-bodied 18 to 20 year old boy overseas. They said to my friend, "no way, you're going to Viet Nam". His parents gave him a car and some money and sent him north, because they had already lost a son and a nephew in Viet Nam, had another son in uniform and going overseas, and they couldn't stand to lose another. He showed me a list from his hometown newspaper showing the casualties from his high school class once; I don't recall the exact percentage, but it was something like over 50% of his class were sent overseas and killed or wounded amounted to about 30%.

I remember Life Magazine printed the picture of every boy killed in Viet Nam in one week in 1968, at the height of the carnage. There were about 25 photos per page, and they filled the entire magazine.

Passing on the following information for consideration. Do at least read the first few paragraphs. The timeline represented within is...educational. I cannot vouch for its veracity but what I know is consistent with the contents.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9360

I would like to visit Viet Nam...is that wrong????? I was too young to go, but I want to visit. I don't know how to feel about that.

No different than going to Paris,London,Berlin or any other city or country or countryside where people were killed during a conflict.
Many Americans go to Tokyo..........lots more Japanese vist Pearl Harbor.

Go ahead. Absolutely GORGEOUS country. Central Highlands around Pleiku. Coastal areas around Phan Thiet and up to Cam Ranh Bay and points between. You can go to TLee's old battlefield at LZ X-Ray, or a few of mine like Soui Ca Valley and parts of the A Shau Valley. I couldn't go back myself. The minute I saw a Red Star on a helmet, I'd go back on kill mode.

I had a Professor who was living amongst the South Viet Namese Army. He worked in Army intelligence (of which he joked there was no such thing), and went village to village with 1 soldier from the south as his partner...he said as messed up and war torn, it was beautiful country side...on the other hand, my Brother-in-law and uncle were not impressed with the jungle, the heat, the whole deal.

The French began pulling out of Indochina in 1954, following the signing of the Geneva Accords of 1954 which provided for free elections to take place in 1956. The US did not sign the Accords which divided Indochina into 3 nations (South and North Vietnam and, Laos). When the communists started fighting to unify the North and South, the US dispatched advisors and later troops to help. It is most unfortunate that it took us 54,000 American lives to realize that the Vietnamese had been fighting for 1,000 years (the Chinese, then the French, then the Japanese, the French again and, finally the US. Had we been willing to stay for 1,000 years (at what casualty and financial cost?), we might have won.

Digital Dan......

One must understand that all references to "Viet Minh guerrillas" is tainted with the truth (sounds funny,eh?) that Uncle Ho had in place his own military cadre of communist officers at the top of the Viet Minh. These professional communists military officers and political officers guided and managed the so-called "guerrillas".
From 1954 on more and more North Vietnamese regular army troops were channeled south to be part of the guerrillas. This evolved into the Viet Cong-VC.....victor charlie.
After our military crushed the VC movement during Tet 1968,we faced the 100% North Vietnamese regular Army -NVA. I say 100% because they stopped hiding the fact of who they really were.

Any of you Viet Nam vets ever heard of the Arizona territory or something like tha???

Doc......this is not intended to discredit anything in your post.......just keep in mind the anti-war/anti-military crowd back then went to ENORMOUS LENGTHS to create / justify their positions.

Think on this.......if such a hi school anywhere in the US had a graduating class where 50% of its students went to VN (must be only considering the guys because women were free from the draft) and then 30% of that number were KIA,don't you think that school and town would be more commonly known? Famously known? The anti-war crowd would convene there every year along with the agreeing press to celebrate that fact.

On the other hand,many towns in South Dakota were (and probably still are) tiny rural communities. Say you had graduation class of 6 total males......3 enlist (50%).....1 of the 3 is killed in VN (30%).

It's so easy to manipulate the numbers. The other side lied so many times and created so much myth to defend their beliefs that i am skeptical of much of this.
On the otherhand,if there was such a school and town then i honor their convictions of duty to our country.

An AO in and around DaNang.

But later on it was a commonly used term to describe any area that was fought over.
And over.......and over.......and over.

DMZ meant DeMiliterized Zone...........but commonly known as Dead Man Zone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach_Ma_National_Park

I may have been a tad naive at the time, and I only have what that one young man told me to go on. Could be a manipulation, but he certainly wasn't a leftie or a member of the anti-war movement. We did some hunting and fishing together, he was just an average prairie-grown kid like me, only a lot more homesick.

I only mentioned his story as a personal illustration of the sort of draft board activity that could lead to the loss of large numbers of boys from a particular high school such as Thomas Edison in Philly.

A fine example of a younger American Warrior......tip of the hat to ya,sir!

And,Doc,like i said at the beginning and the end of my post......not to discredit you.

It's just that for so many decades the other side hated us......targeted us......demeaned us.......used us.

I actually had a young mother in the old San Francisco International airport pull her young daughter away from me as i was waiting for a flight out. I was wearing my dress blues. In a not low-enough whisper,she said "Come,dear,he's from Vietnam."

I often wonder if that little girl....now grown....remembers that. People around us heard her mom and no one said a word to her or me. After a couple of minutes i gathered my stuff and found a piller to lean on.
At least that pole was lending some support.

Yeah, an AO out of An Hoa. Terrible place. Lot of Marines died there.

In some places,dinner will crawl up to you...

The night job...

The day job...

then you can be a lucky SOB and go home...

of the 33,000 plus 18 year olds killed over there, I wonder how many were draftees and how many were volunteers...

my best friend growing up was killed over there at 18....

i might be wrong in my remembrance, but i think one had to be 19 to be drafted? i was 21 when the lottery caught up with me.

I believe that is correct, 19,because there were a lot of 18 year olds still in high school and I was one of them.I still have my draft card somewhere....I've heard over the years the Marines were tougher on draftees...
Always got the old school DI's

yes. always heard the stories about the Marines showing up at an assignment station. all the inductees were told to line up and count off. every 10th, 20th, 30th man, was told to step forward. they were informed that they were now US Marines because there was a levy to fill.

a lot of Army folks volunteered for three years rather than risk being drafted into the Corps for two. i took my chances because i didn't really care what Branch was going to take me.

From Doc Rocket's posting on page 3... Quote:
His draft board was one of those determined to out-do the rest of the country by sending every able-bodied 18 to 20 year old boy overseas. They said to my friend, "no way, you're going to Viet Nam".

I had the same thing said to me..as I have joked about it, I was drafted 7 times and beat it 6...

I was virtually in the very last draft call in October 1972... there were 200 of us... even tho my draft board was at home in Virginia, I was going to college in Massachusetts....

Student Deferments were canned in July 1972...as far as I know, I may be the only person to fall into this.. as there were no draft calls after July 72 except for last 200 of us in October...

We had orders for 16 weeks of Basic and AIT at Ft Dix NJ, as I remember and then also had orders to Vietnam in our same induction packet received in the mail..

a couple of guys didn't show up, but at the same time after we were processed, they were shutting down the Induction Station at Chelsea Naval Yard in Boston...it was in an old warehouse kind of area..

sitting outside was Buses to take us to Ft Dix, and moving vans parked next to them...

as we processed thru an area, while we were leaving that area, the movers were coming in the other door and started packing up stuff...no one there had any time or care to listen to some sob story from any draftee.. as soon as we were processed, the military personnel there were reporting to a new duty station..

I grew up as a military dependent, and lived at Ft Bragg ( Pope AFB) from 1966 to 1968.. believe me, at the time someone stationed there fell into one of two categories... one their way to Vietnam or just returning from Vietnam...

My step dad served a total of 49 months in Vietnam... flying mainly C 130s, Black Bird Stuff....He was part of the team that worked with testing what became the HC 130's that would pick up a downed pilot from the jungle floor in a hostile area..
the ones with that big scissor looking retrieval system on the nose...he was assigned to the Tactical Airlift Center at Pope while stateside during that time, and going TDY to Vietnam all the time...

My mom when we were at Ft Bragg was secretary for the the Commanding Officer of the Green Berets... General Stillwell was her first boss before he was killed shortly there after in 66..
JF Kennedy Center for Special Warfare it was called..

I had a lot of friends growing up, whose dads were going to Vietnam and not coming home...my best friend growing up was killed over there, after his dad had been killed earlier over there..family friends from when we were stationed in England, were being killed over there...

So I was around it about as much as you could be and not being there..

My step dad thought the war was senseless, for exactly the reasons Rocky stated.. they had their hands tied and then told to go win a war...He told me that if I could get out of going over there, short of becoming a draft dodger to do it...

Out of those 200 guys in that draft call, I was the only one that didn't get out and get on those buses at the end of the day...I had dropped out of college, given away all of my possessions, to include my car, the clothes that weren't given away, I had taken to Good Will.. I owned virtually nothing...except the clothes on my back...and the shoes on my feet...

I left shell shocked is only how I could describe it..

I watched the other guys get on the Buses, the moving vans being loaded still as I walked back to the subway station...

What is an AO??? My friend was a young Marine who made it out of there alive but messed up for a while (still?) in his head. He is a great guy and has spent a life making a difference and helping people. he never spoke much of it, but I remember he referenced serving in a "meat grinder" called the Arizona Territory. he said it was brutal and a lot of men died there. I am glad he did not.

Part 2...

as a kid growing up around Vietnam going on, to this day, I have to admit, no phrase lights my fuse, or turns me into a junkyard dog, more than the Term "Baby Killer"...

I saw so many long haired hippies making trips to the airports just to harass and spit on returning Vietnam Vets...shouting accusations at these guys, even the ones ( or especially the ones) returning home in a wheel chair, or on crutches..

I've seen hippies screaming at guys in wheel chairs " I hope you never walk again Baby Killer!"... or " you got what you deserved hahahaha!"

I was able to keep a lid on my anger most of the time.. I am not naturally a violent person, but several times on my college campus, I beat the living [bleep] out of a few guys for that type of crap...it was a small college and the only reason I didn't get expelled was that the President of the College and the Dean of Men, were both Veterans.. one of WW 2 and the other of Korea..I was high profile on campus, being involved in Student Government and the Dorm Council..plus the campus President was a fellow Virginian.. who privately thanked me for beating the crap out of the perps that were harassing returning Vietnam Vets enrolling as students..

By my heart has forever bled for the guys who had to go over there and fight, and then come home to the crap they got from Hippies at the airports and bus stations... who went down there just to harass these guys.... I've also seen some of these returning vets just lose it, and even sucker punch women in the face.. and just walk off...

I remember in the summer of 69, in Georgetown in DC, me and my buddies were in a White Castle around lunch time.. we were waiting in line along with some weird black guy.. while there, 4 Marines came in and got in line to order... this black guy immediately started giving them crap " Baby Killers, etc"... they finally told him to STFU or they'd make he do so.. he left...

we got our order and walked half a block up the street... we didn't see the black guy re enter the W/C..we heard 4 shots rings out... and he comes rocketing out the door...gun in hand.. we rushed back... the 4 Marines lay there dead.. the first shot from behind, the other 3 were evidently hit while charging him...

WW 2 produced what was called our greatest generation....

I believe they were parents of the worst generation this country ever produced.. the GDF hippies...

to this day, when I see a guy my age with a ponytail, my first gut reaction is to beat the crap out of him...but I managed to keep a lid on it..

I have emotional scars as stupid as it sounds, from growing up around Vietnam and especially the reaction to hippies, for what they did to the returning Veterans....

My uncles who fought in the Pacific in WW 2, hated ANYTHING Japanese until the day they died...

my hatred is anything I see that can remind me of a hippie..due to there reactions stateside...

I see long hair on a guy who was a vet over there... I have a totally different attitude...he earned the right to dress or do almost anything he wants to do in my book..

In my life time I have had many friends, who have died because of Vietnam... and their names will never be on "The Wall".. their experiences in Vietnam, killed them one piece at a time, never able to mentally or emotionally overcome what was taken from them by the time spent there..... be it alcohol, drugs, depression, inability to cope.. you name it..

God Bless Don Hansen, I knew in Minneapolis.. same age as I was.. died about 1983.. shot himself in the head...

put in front of a judge at 17, was told he could spend a year in jail or join the Army.. he chose the army...16 weeks later he finds himself flying into Cam Rahn Bay ( IIRC).. gets off the plane about 48 to 72 hours from graduating AIT...

Some guy comes up to them in line and points to three of them, and tells them to follow him.. they are put on a chopper and flown to a firebase on the DMV...

he gets there, was sent to a Fire Tower, and put on an M 60 as the sun went down... a 19 year old is up in the tower, who had been "in Country' for a while...as soon as it is dark, he asked Don "wanna get high?"... and like any 17 year old, says Sure...

about 1 am a flair goes up from the jungle... Don jumped and the other guy laughed and said don't worry... its a patrol coming in....

So Don watches the flair drop out of the sky slowly... as it gets down toward the ground, he ask the other guy, 'who are these guys?'... there were ladders stretched across barbed wire, with guys in black Pajamas on them.. there were 3 guys climbing the ladder to their tower, each with AKs strung over their back and knives in Clenched in their teeth...

the other guy went from stoned to sober in 2 seconds flat.. kicked the ladder dropped a grenade down the hatch and kicked the hatch closed.. and yelled at Don.. "get on the 60!"

Don said he sobered up also when the guy yelled they are VC...

the other guy fired a flair in the air and they opened up..

the patrol coming in realized what was happening, and set up an ambush for the VC trying to escape...

as Don would wrap up that story, he'd tell ya, " I was credited for 60 plus kills that night by my commanding officer... and I climbed into a bottle of booze after that, and have been there ever since..."

So just one night after being out with the rest of the guys, he left in good spirits, went home and put a bullet between his eyes..

How many stats like Don Hansen, we'll never know...

God be with each of them...and bless them...

and curse Lyndon Johnson et al., who would not allow those men to do the job that needed done...

My sister's husband had a low number and was sure to get picked. He graduated H.S. and came home one day to tell his mother he joined the ARMY. She was upset and asked why...he said his number would be called and he wanted some say in it...helicopters in Viet Nam was what they gave him...don't sound like much say to me!


******Correction....his draft # was 11. He got drafted 1 week out of high school June 1969. 92 AHC.

I went to one of the "best" high schools in Texas in a college town. Hardly anyone went active duty, most kept out one way or the other: college deferment, National Guard, medical, etc. Beleive it or not most Helicopter troops volunteered especially the air crews. Other than loosing a good friend the worst of it to me was the silent "don't tell us about it; we don't care" message I got almost daily. Two exceptions were a couple of old WWI vets and one of the "popular girls" from high school who's husband went over in 1968 just as I got home.
She and I hardly had spoken in high school but the talk we had about her husband and what the town was like during the war is one of my most touching memories of the time and place.

AO...area of operations..(known areas of enemy encampments)

I'm very sorry about your friend, Seafire. I went through 25 years of what I now know (in hindsight) was PTSD. It took me 250,000+ words in my books to dispel those demons, but I think I did.

The guys returning home today get cheers and tears. They deserve it. As you pointed out, we got insults, spit, piss, and feces thrown at us. On the plane they kept telling us that it might happen, and if it did to not react in any way - and especially not to touch any of them because they'd file assault charges against us. Being hit with feces apparently didn't count as assault on us.

Here's an amazing anecdote:

I was at the SHOT show a couple years ago and was chatting to the folks in one booth when I noticed one of the company reps was Vietnamese. His nametag said Nguyen Truong. I said to him, that's a very odd coincidence, because I flew with a guy with that same name. I explained that he had been my right-seater/translator on many missions, and that he had been a defector from the NVA, a Captain, in fact.

The man before me said, very quietly: "My father was a Captain in the NVA, and he disappeared one day. We never heard from him again. I'm named for him."

Honest to God.

just goes to show, we're all interconnected, as much as i attempt to resist the reality.

Just thought some of you may be interested in this aircrew recovery after all these years.Six AC-47 crewman were finally brought home to rest.

June,1966... an Ac-47 Gunship was lost on a routine night recon mission over Laos.

In May-June of 1995... a joint team of US and Lao specialists were taken to the crash site and began recovery operations of personal effects,aircraft wreckage and crew related materials.

Nov 5,2004... the "Spooky" crew where united once again and buried in a single casket at Arlington..Rest in eternal peace brothers.

Link if interested:
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/aircrew-06031966.htm

WOW..dude!
My good friend here in Charlotte was a Marine in '68 and lost a guy from his company after a firefire,he was running from troop carrier to troop carrier,count heads, calling names, packin up put to pull out when he was hit by a lone rifle round and later Medicv' out. Ten years,Bob is a cop in Jacksonville,NC called out for a barfight,as punches are being thrown, the first guy to get cuffed was my freinds missing Marine from that day in '68!!You never know..

This has been a good thread.

This is why I have no respect for Gus.

you don't need to respect Gus unless you choose to do so. i got my time in, and got out as a Spc 5, as a draftee type. i did my job, and my NCo, and related Officers appreciated my extra-efforts.

you, my friend, have yet to prove anything to me, or anyone else on the Campfire, except to be a curmurgeon.

oh, are you a draftee that served, or are you a internet warrior?

You must have been Air Force, they didn't tell the Air Cav about that. Back from the first tour I put 3 Hare Krishna units on their azz in the terminal at San Fran, or Oakland, don't remember precisely where I was. Weren't much of an accomplishment really, they expected me to stop and chat, guess they were surprised. Air Cav with an 80# duffel on the shoulder is a lot of inertia....

Know you're not looking for advice but...let it go...accept the fact that you are better than people like that, we all were, and still are. They are that 10% that never catch on and aren't worth a second thought. Even if they are on fire.

That makes two of us Jim, I will never get past, just can't do it. I pulled too many wounded back to base and way to many bodies, I will NEVER forget!

Internet Warrior I'm no curmurgeon either, at 32 I think the proper term is a hole.

I just have no tolerance for comments that can make any of our solider heros feel bad for doing their jobs. Don't they already suffer enough from depression and PTSD?

Re:
"54 soldiers on attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . (I wonder why so many from one school?)"

Wow - I thought my high school contributed more than its fair share (seven - with one MoH, IIRC) - due, in part, no doubt to being the closest high school to Fort Benning, GA (even closer than the Poobah's). My schoolmates had lots of brothers and fathers in 'Nam; the father of one survived his stint as a POW.
Memory may fail me here; but I think there are 13 Ivy League graduates listed on the Wall.

thank you for your response. as a 32 year old, you're about the same age of my youngest son. he didn't face the draft or anything similar.

i was drafted, and was willing to do my best in an unfortunate set of circumstances. they (the Army) didn't need me, but they asked for my assistance anyways.

when a National Gov't like the US, under the control of Pres. Johnson, Defense Secretary McNamara, and General Westmoreland can define the lives of tons of draftees and volunteers, alike, then who's to complain? the people who disagreed, and fled to Canada??

you sound like some child who protects his Father under all circumstances. My Father told you to do that, and i'm his child, and i want you to follow his orders. Get it? no, we don't do that anymore...get it?

August 26, 1969 5 men from my home town's national guard unit in Manchester, NH were killed in Binh Duong Province, South Vietnam when their truck hit a land mine. If I recall, they were 1 week from coming home. All 5 were friends from Manchester. Very sad, but just 1 of hundreds of stories like it I bet.

I had been back for a few months when I met up with an airport SOB in San Diego that really didn't love his country or respect members of the military. I missed my flight that day and lost my good conduct medal as well. But he got the hell beat out of him. Although the CO didn't want to, he had to spank my hands. "Can't whip up on civilians" he said and gave me 30 days in the brig which he quickly suspended. As I was walking out he shook my hand and said well done Doc.

Those were bad times for all military. Our own people had turned on us. Can't tell everyone how great it is to see the way our guys are treated now. God bless them all. They deserve our respect and admiration.

Jim

If you volunteered didnt you get your pick of MOS? If drafted
most likely you would be 11B, 13B, 19L, etc.

Also, its been awhile but at FT Sam Houston Cemetary in
San Antonio, TX there is a small section of several young
men from FT Hood, TX who are all killed in a fire fight in VN.

My prefix was RA when there WAS a difference. What I keep in mind to this day is that those who ran,those who [bleep] with us, those who rioted and committed acts of domestic terrorism (Bill Ayers,Bernadine Dorn et.al.) never kept faith with anyone or anything. Those types of creatures deserve no consideration in any way from any of us who went. I wish them misery and no good fortune. I don't forgive. That is Gods' prerogative.

First time I saw The Wall in DC, I found the name of my best friend from growing up... and also a few of my folks friends, I remembered from earlier in my childhood.

I turned to my wife with tears over my best friend Mike..and told my wife, 'as I see all these names and seeing the ones of people dear to me, I feel remorse for not going over there and serving my time...'

with that I felt a blow between my shoulder blades and my face was slammed into the Wall... then I was spun around, and here was this scrawny guy who came up to my shoulder and he shoved my back into the WALL...

" Listen A Hole! There are 58,000 guys on this wall that their families wished their sons had never had to spend one day in 'Nam.... If you managed to dodge going there, you should thank God every day of your life!!! You Dumbazz MF!!"

He let go of me and walked off cursing my words and me for saying them...

Every time I think of Vietnam, I thank God I didn't have to go over there... and quite frequently I asked God to Bless that man, where ever he may be....

Seafire, what do you ask God to bless him with?