Like SteveNO says,....ya' just could not write this chit.

GTC


Obama - Biden
Friend --

Thanks to our president, this nation's immigration policy just became more fair and more just.

Effective immediately, the Department of Homeland Security is taking steps to ensure that young, undocumented immigrants who were brought here as children by their parents, and who have followed the law since then, will be able to request temporary relief from deportation proceedings -- and will be allowed to apply for authorization to work in this country.

They're a group that we've come to call the "Dreamers" -- and today, the country they love is telling them they should be able to dream as big as they want.

For years, the President has called on Congress to make common-sense fixes to our broken immigration system. They haven't. So he did.

I am so proud to stand with President Obama on this decision. Watch what he had to say today -- then join me by getting his back.

The hundreds of thousands of people who this policy might help are people who call the United States of America home. They study in our schools, play in our parks, and pledge allegiance to our flag. Some of them have served in our Armed Forces. They've started businesses; they've started families. They are Americans in every way but on paper.

Congress still has time to pass the DREAM Act. And if they do, policies like today's will no longer be necessary.

We are not giving up on this issue.

Stand up and support the President today -- and help send the message that this first big step must be followed by a real, permanent solution from Congress:

http://my.barackobama.com/Dreamers

Thank you,

Katherine

Katherine Archuleta
National Political Director
Obama for America

Dreamersm!!!????

This crap is beyond words.

[bleep] sick bastards!

How about freeloaders!

The Dream Act- A weapon designed in the minds of liberals to be used for the destruction of America along with other weapons at their disposal.

Take it one step further and you have George Soros' vision of a world without borders- one world goverment.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!

OK, so what has he done to fix the broken immigration system?

Nothing.

All he did was reward the children of illegal immigration, this does nothing to address the broken immigration system. Of course he has no time for that, he has to get off to the golf course.

He fix it alright , he just gave a chit load of more illegals another reason to come here

You think a comprehensive immigration reform bill has any chance of making it to the floor of the Republican controlled House?
Do you think that a comprehensive immigration reform bill has any chance of advancing in a Democrat controlled Senate?

I support the Dream Act. If you put your life on the line for this great Nation you deserve a clear path to citizenship. Far more these fine young people than many US citizens who've never lifted a finger or risked anything to help our Nation.

The liberals eat this crap up.

N, you can support anything you want. About 2 years ago the Dems consoled both houses and had the White House. They did nothing. You don't get it , the President does not make laws. Hasbeen

In fact the president is refusing to enforce laws already passed. Thats WRONG!! Hasbeen

Not only that HB, but some dems a while back wanted to not only ignore existing laws but pretend as though a bill that did NOT pass into law be enforced as though it had. There's some really phk'd up people in congress.

Dems are clearly the worse, but Team R, in regard to immigration, has done very poorly for decades too, and get nothing but 2 thumbs down.

On immigration, Team R + Team D most definitely = Team Fed.
And Team Fed is most definitely NOT on America's nor the people's side. Their goal is, and has been, to impoverish the American people to the point we're on par with Mexico so the two can be comfortably merged into one.

The best way to impoverish a wealthy nation is import more people in poverty.

Plus you get added violence and crime giving gov more excuses to take freedoms away.

Additioinal efforts are ongoing all around us. Give away billions that don't exist better enabling countries that hate us to attack in various ways. Spend billions that don't exist on foolish war making at wars that cannot be won, both here and abroad. Spend countless more billions on boondoggle lefty "green" energy whims that only enrich liberal asssholes and do nothing to meet energy needs, let alone destroy the environment which they purport to be saving.
etc etc.

Besides these, wash out their currency by printing more and more. Everyone understands how this scheme works, even Hitler at the peak of his addle minded drug crazed frenzy. He had about a ton of counterfeit Brit currency ready to airdrop jsut before the war ended. A stroke of genius, if he'd have pulled it off. British economy would crash and he'd have won the war. The US government is counting on exactly that..... winning their war against We the People of the United States of America....

Libs will never admit it, but they actively wage war against the country on continuing basis.
Neocons will never admit it, but they're no better. Different angle of attack but exact same goal. War is war.

ALL have found a way to profit from the demise of America and until enough people realize that we are in fact under attack and are ready to fight back it will continue.

"Undocumented workers" are just another battle ground.
We are at war. Most just don't realize it yet.
Hell, half the population of the country are signed on in one way or another. Many right here on this forum. Just like liberals they reject facts and will do anything to preserve their comfy lifestyle.
We are at war.

Rick Perry will surely approve of this message.. The jug eared kenyan is doubling down, big time.

Jesus you can be DENSE sometimes.

Posting somethjing doesn't need to imply agreement with the CONTENT, Ya' know .

Yup, The Dream Act's a REAL peach, and a guaranteed way to garner loyal "Citizens".

Wearing the American flag while waving the Mex flag.

He should have been slapped all the way across the border.

The SOBs in office love creating problems for real Americans

You choose to put on the uniform of the US military, put yourself in harm's way doing the bidding of the US military, and fight and possibly die for your buddies also in that uniform you've earned your citizenship.
Far more than many other so called citizens who do zilch for this great Nation.

No flame,.....BUT, since you're so all goddam FIRED UP about "Military Service",....let's see some statistics as to just how many of these 'Kids' are actually going to put on a uniform.

You guys are confusing the "Rightness" of doing this ( and in MANY cases it's perfectly RIGHT) ,.....with the

A.) ABILITY of this bunch of incompetent azzwholes (HSA) to find their azz with both hands and a flashlight

B.) The blatant abrogation of authority, and the dictatorial "FIAT" implied.

I don't think there's a single swingin' Richard here that would disagree with the "Earned" thesis you present. It's just that there's WAY more involved than that single issue.

GTC

Wearing dark glasses and a mask is the mark of a hood, not a prospective citizen, IMHO.

I agree Greg but the DREAM act was what I said I supported and that act was about granting a path to citizenship to those undocumented people who chose to serve in the US military and those who bettered themselves by earning a college degree.
That was my understanding anyway but I'll defer to your greater expertise on this subject if you inform me that the DREAM act was about more than that.

I guess you can serve in the military without proving citizenship? I am afraid, like most government run programs, the "dream" will turn into a nightmare.......

Just did a little internet "research" and it seems to me that illegal immigrants can only join the military with false papers and SSN's.
Documented non-citizens can and do join the military. One estimate puts that number at 29,000 in 2009. Their service does put them on a path to citizenship.
Immigration is an exceedingly complex issue with demagoguery, heated rhetoric, and inflamed passions on all sides.

While I'm opposed to illegal immigration I wonder what I'd do if my kids were hungry living in Mexico and if I could feed them by going to the US, illegally or not?
I'm thinking that there isn't much I WOULDN'T do to feed my kids.

yes, of course. But if we don't have borders, do we really have a country?? I happen to work with a young Mexican girl. Her father(now dead) brought her and her mother here illegally years ago. She is now 19 and has been an honor student in high school and college. She was one traffic stop from deportation and she doesn't know anymore about Mexico than I do. She's a good kid, and I understand wanting to help people like her. Its just a tough damn call, and I don't think the President can do things like this on his own.

The "Dream Act",......in it's current state of dishabile, distress, and conflict is just WORDS,....and should be re-named "The Pipe Dream act".

As currently configured, and now (thanks to the Crazy Lesbo's "Policy") will do NO real American a lick of good,....

Lotsa' "New Hires" to handle PAPER, is what I see,......and not one damned thing that has anything to do with holding our country together.

Just back from a quick chat with some 1st second generation AMERICANS of Mexican origin,......they agree that this is a Charlie Foxtrot, on steroids, in the making.

You'll not be the one with "Refugee Camps" on your immediate horizon, either, Mister.

"Earning" citizenship should perhaps entail participating DIRECTLY in sorting this Narco-Terr mess out,...I mean DIRECT involvement , too.

Christ's sake,....some of the 'Parents" of these "Kids" haven't seen their 43rd YEAR yet, either,......wonder if THEY would be up for helping sort things out.

.....don't hold your breath.

GTCX

Hey, I'm not far from the Canadian border and we get a lot a messed up Canadians here year round.

In all seriousness I do understand your concern as people fleeing from poverty and violence are a lot more dangerous and unpredictable than well heeled hippies from the North.

I'm not even going to try and argue it with Nasqam. The DREAM Act whether ostensibly aimed at military personnel or not, is just another way to destroy our sovereignty. I am a US citizen, not a world citizen. I don't care whether some Messican served in our military or not. There are lots of those guys in the Cartels that are brave men too. Lots of the NVA were brave too. Ask ET. That doesn't make them my buddies. Lots of the Japs who shot at my Dad were brave. We simply do not need a bunch more Messicans over here. We are full up. Look at the economy. All arguments about fat union workers and lazy welfare bums aside. We have plenty of unemployed to do these jobs. We don't need more Messicans to become "assimilated" as in, come over here and get on welfare, foodstamps and any other social program the commies can come up with. Hussein is a traitor. The people that support Hussein are, in the main, either demented or traitors.

This is all about the rule of law. We've got people worrying about stoners smoking a few doobies as the banks and other criminals steal millions. We've got [bleep] Holder appointing prostituters to hang people like George Zimmerman while they get people like Krentz killed with their gunrunning schemes. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if Holder was Cartel and maybe his boss too, among other things.

We've got to make the decision as to whether we're going to remain a sovereign country of laws or just let the Mex's in and become a joke. Arguments about how [bleep] brave and awesome they are for serving in the military or some such aside.

A military full of ignorant Mexicans who have no real stake in this country other than to take it over and loot it is just what we need. Make it much easier to disarm us when Congress is ignored or fully co-opted and the executive order comes down from the Muslim or his bosses in the Cartel.

Like Afterum just said, "It's a tough Damn Call"

....that said,...... it's really FINE to be able to communicate here with folks that are trying to get through this with their ethics and morality intact.

I'm not smelling THAT , in either Political "Camp", these days.

If there is any dream involved its a BAD dream. Like as in nightmare.

Your thinking is effed up dude. Oops may not get things 100% right, but he's a real American and he supports real Americans. You need to get your head right.

I pretty much feel the same about you so we're even.

I don't object to the "Dream Act" as laid out either, but that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong for Obama to push it through on his own, around the Congress. Gridlock is part of the political process, it prevents a small majority from imposing their will. If the dream act were to stop right here I wouldn't be as opposed, but can you nsaqam say with any confidence that allowing the family of these dream act kids will not be allowed to stay as the next addendum to the Dream Act?

you can rest assured that if Obama is re-elected there will certainly be an addendum.......

Executive Orders are a fixture of present day politics.
Fair or not, like them or not they are done regularly.
Bush II did 150 during the same time period Obama did 128.
There were always objections.

Just curious, did Bush ever suggest a law enforcement agency NOT enforce the law?

I would think that a sitting president insisting that the law of the land, adopted through the constitutional process, not being enforced, would be unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?

How is this different then Governor Wallace standing in front of the college front door refusing blacks entry?

Imagine for a moment, the press reaction if, say, George Bush had decided he would instruct the AG stop enforcing the civil rights laws, or the minimum wage laws, or any other act of Congress that the left likes.

Pretty much on target Steve.

The only reform I want in our immigration laws is that they be ENFORCED! Immigration reform is nothing but code for amnesty. Do I really have to tell anybody this?

You mean like the amnesty President Ronald Reagan granted to 3 million illegal aliens in 1986?

Reagan was surely no bleeding heart liberal.

Let me ask you a question. Are you for open borders? Are you a Globalist? Would you prefer world government? Actually that's three questions, but wtf? Let's just lay our cards on the table. I'll go first, even though you didn't ask. I'm none of the above. I'm an American. A US citizen. I have no preference for world government or doing away with our borders. Mexican citizens need to stay in Mexico unless here legally temporarily. These people will not be legal regardless of what Obama says.

For the record, it doesn't make us even. I believe in right and wrong. I'm right, you're wrong.

We're not talking about Reagan or 1986. We're talking about an illegally seated President granting squatting rights to probably 40 million illegals in 2012. If even a fraction are allowed to vote, it could skew the "election". We've already moved into Communist territory with the show elections so I'm not sure it matters much.

FWIW there are a lot of us here who don't have portraits of Ronnie in our living room and who don't watch Bedtime for Bonzo every night.

Reagan gave it a try - it didn't work, and, in fact, backfired.
The lesson should have been learned - but, apparently was not.

Mark

Nope, nope and nope.
Every male in my family for generations has served in our military protecting our borders and NOBODY loves this great Nation more than myself.
I see most illegal aliens in this Country as not a scourge but as a necessary (possibly uncomfortable) asset.
I would greatly prefer that there were an efficient process in place to grant these people a way to be here legally.
That isn't the case.
I would also prefer that we didn't need these people and that their economic conditions didn't make coming to the US illegally so attractive and necessary.

Finally, your definition of right and wrong is your own and not shared by many.

The "backfire" offa' THIS stunt will make R. Reagan's look like a wet fizzled bottle rocket,.....

This just empowered THESE people, fer' Chrissake !

Garnering every illegal vote he can no wonder he doesn't want photo ID for voting. You even needed a photo ID to go to moochelle's book signing last week. But say lets face it that has more to do with what's hap!

Just because you say it is, does not make it true. My definition of right and wrong in this case and in most, is shared by the majority of legal residents of this country. What do you not understand about "illegal"? If you and yours have defended our borders, how can you stand by and see our laws blatantly disregarded by hoards entering illegally? It simply does not make sense.

All the arguments about needing illegals are so much horseshixt. Not even worthy of discussion.

I don't.. Never have - NEVER WILL... Immigrants coming into this country must do it the legal way, PERIOD... If not, send 'em back until they can.. PERIOD.

So you think it's OK for the LIC to circumvent Congress and just give illegals carte-blanche to live here???

.

Hundreds of Thousands. Kind of exemplifies how big the issue really is. I can't imagine that the dems. just went out and bought "Hundreds of Thousands" of votes with our taxpayer dollars do you? Now if she said Hundreds of Thousands of taxpayers that'd be a whole different story.

Dude...dude...

That's it ?

"Dude... Dude...

Crap sakes,......you use paragraphs, man,.....do so !

GTC

Do you have ANY clue as to just how wealthy a country "Mexico" actually is ?

"Economic Conditions" ?

WTF are yo talking about, or better yet WTF do you THINK you're talkng about /

"America, Haven for The Cowardly",.......?

That IS what you just proposed, ya' know.

GTC

Nearly half the population of Mexico lives below the poverty line.
85% of the Nations wealth is held by a very few families.
40% have no access to health care.

For 50 million people Mexico is impoverished. Extremely impoverished.

I'll ask again, what WOULDN'T you do to feed your children?

Statistics ?

WTF do "Statistics" have to do with having ANY potential for being an AMERICAN, in spirit and behavior,.....you know,... OVERTHROWING dictators and oppressors, like ?

How many YEARS have you lived and worked in "Mexico" (I'm putting it in quotes because it's no longer really there, if it ever was) ?

Fluent in the language, and just a Latin American Expat par excellence, no doubt ?

.........you're calling out , "....bring me your hungry and COWARDLY,.....' Mister.

.....I doubt the founders saw this "deal" that way

GTC

Did you know

"listen" and "silent" use the same letters?
Do you know that the words "race car" spelled backwards still spells "race car"?
And that "eat" is the only word that if you take the first letter and move it to the last, it spells its past tense "ate"?
And have you noticed that if you rearrange the letters in "illegal immigrants," and add just a few more letters, it spells:
"Go home you free-loading, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, baby-making,
non-English-speaking aszwholes, and take those other hairy-faced, rag-headed, sandal-wearing,
bomb-throwing, camel-riding, raggedy-ass bastids with you."
How weird is that?

No he wasn't, but he was wrong, just like Obama is.

No, I would want to join the revolution.

Well do a little more internet research and find out whether or not Reagan signed an amnesty bill that congress passed and sent up to his office, or whether he did an end run around congress by refusing to enforce the laws constitutionally put forth by the political process.

Are you seeing a difference yet?

Every amnesty in the past was initiated by congress, not one man imposing his will whoring for votes






The amnesty of 1986 was clearly stated by Congress to be a "one time only" amnesty. Yet since then, Congress passed a total of 7 subsequent amnesties for illegal aliens:

The Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA) Amnesty of 1986 - the "one-time only" blanket amnesty for some 2.8 million illegal aliens.
Section 245(i) The Amnesty of 1994 - a temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens.
Section 245(i) The Extension Amnesty of 1997 - an extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994.
The Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty of 1997 - an amnesty for nearly one million illegal aliens from Central America.
The Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA) of 1998 - an amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti.
The Late Amnesty of 2000 - an amnesty for approximately 400,000 illegal aliens who claimed they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty.
The LIFE Act Amnesty of 2000 - a reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty to an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens.

Your social understanding of Mexico is lacking, but don't let facts get in the way of good propaganda. When we discussed this before a couple of years before, the same misconceptions were expressed.

Mexico has the 11th largest economy, larger than Canada's... though that probably has switched due the rise of the Canadian dollar... Mexico is far from poor and a Democracy in name, it's not the US's problem the citizens can't control their own government and country.

Wealth is not the economy and 85% of the GNP isn't controlled by a few families.

Medical care like education is socialized. Everyone has access to care, it may not be to USA standards, but few countries are.

In one fishing village I've frequented, there is no electricity or plumbing. If your child or you get sick or need an operation, you hitch a ride with the merchant or fish buyer when they round trip to the city. They are much more tight nit as they rely on each other.

Mexicans aren't impoverished compared to the world. Their lifestyles aren't up to the US but they aren't starving, unclothed, denied education ect.

The starving family propaganda serves them well with the bleeding hearts... but most of the crossers are young single males... and their motivation is money and sex... same as any young single male in the world. They can't make enough money in Mexico to attract girls... girls go after older established men. That's a social issue, not a starving issue.

'Starving' is not a word that represents the Mexican people, it's a red herring meant to promote propaganda.

A more dangerous demographic are the females that come across breeding for social benefits.

Kent

My favorite "justification" used by the libtards goes something like:

"After NAFTA was signed the price of corn in a Mexican village went up 60x, so Juan and Juanita can no longer afford their tortilla....."

And:

"All those gang members and Zapata rebels and drug lords were once just simple farmers driven to desperation by NAFTA...."

Add all of that to what nsaqam typed above and I still want to ask, "Why the %$#@&! is that my problem?"

Just like we can not be the policeman of the world, we can not be the charity of the world.

When I was in Guadalajara, an old world European style metropolis... the malls were fancier than here in Phx and packed, with 20 movie theater and all the latest american releases subtitled in spanish and packed. The restaurants were packed, the zoo was packed, the streets were clogged with traffic... and I never saw another american there.

In the smaller cities like Hermosillo or Caborca... the streets are packed, the restaurants/stores do good business, the schools get out and there are kids walking home just like here, the local university is full, the soccer fields are full.

In the dirt villages, you are invited in a plywood or tin house for a simple tortilla meal... unless you act like a gringo ass... and those meals are some of my most appreciated of my life.

Kent

Written by someone who has never been Mexico. I have travelled all over Mexico. I talked with many many people and children. No one is starving there.

Ignorant and clueless NPR talking points

The first thing the "starving Mexicans" do in my area when they arrive is save enough money to purchase a new pick up or Escalade with $ 5000 rims

Some are friends and they all are sending money home to buy big ranches.

All are receiving some type of welfare, get earned income tax credits and receive free healthcare. They laugh at the ignorance of caring liberal white Americans.

I'd REALLY like an answer from nsaqam regarding his mastery of the Spanish language, and his living and employment history in Latin America.

It would certainly "Flesh Out" his posits.

than again, his entire platform might come up looking fairly GANT.

GTC

He nsaqam gets his news from NPR. I listen to NPR now for 40 years and at least once a week they have sob tales involving poor starving illegal aliens and racist xenophobic White Americans.

Americans used to say that about slaves.

Personally, I think we should have picked our own cotton then and we should do our own roofing now.

I've been to every Country in CA with the exception of El Salvador and Nicaragua. My father is a native Spanish speaker but none of his children became fluent in Spanish as we're Americans.
I've been to Chiapas and Oaxaca as well as Sonora and Baja.
Extreme poverty is pervasive in both the southern provinces as it is in every Nation I visited in CA.

You can deny extreme poverty exists in Mexico but I know better from first hand experience.
Ever seen the slums around San Pedro Sula? Ever seen the children afflicted with diseases easily treatable but for want of penicillin? Ever worked in an orphanage in CA?
I have.

As for the people saying it's not their problem that extreme poverty exist south of our border. They're right but that poverty is what drives people to enter our great Nation illegally.

I'm done with this thread as there is no chance that reasoned debate can occur when so many minds are so closed.

It's getting to the point where we would be better off just taking over Mexico. Wipe out their government and all the cartels and be done with it. Maybe that way we would get some benefit from their natural resources.

Maybe 20 years ago that was the case but conditions are much better. And yes I have been to most of those areas.

I did see poverty in Guatemala when I was there. interesting that Guatemalans and other CA immigrants are raped robbed, beaten , tortured killed when they come up through Mexico by Mexican citizens en route to the US. you wouldn't think that the poor weak starving Mexican citizens would havevthe energy to commit these heinous acts because they are all starving. probably drinking red bull to get their energy.

maybe NPR can cover that story. Oh it does not involve evil white straight conservative males.

My mind is not closed against illegal aliens.

But my heart is.

Thank you for your clarification, we share a VERY similar backround in travel and experiences.

The problems in Chiapas ?

Hey, BTDT , in the Late 80's , early 90's, and became conversant with the virtual SLAVERY imposed on the coffee workers.

.........A MEXICAN problem, my friend,......the byproduct of EXTREME "Racism" on the part of the Northern "Mexicans" towards there "indiginos'.

THAT Sir, is a ZAPATISTA problem,......NOT an American one.

Mexico needs to clean up it's act,.....big time.

........the ethics and morality to do so are just not there.

GTC

Guess I'm not done with this thread quite yet.

Agreed on all counts Greg.

Why don't they quit having children that they can't afford to feed? Why don't they stand up and do something to fix the poverty and corruption that has been rampant in those countries for years? We can't fix it for them. We got enough problems of our own.

Because some think importing Mexico's problems to our country is the answer. As free flowing as machismo is in that country, what's it going to take to get them to fight the hard fight?

That's a good question..We already had a revolution and a Civil War in this country plus fought in World Wars to make this the strongest country in the world. When will they grow some cajones and fight the corruption and their oppressors? If they did that then I would have no problem with the US Military helping them out. They need to spill their own blood first.

A little late to this debate so I will just be in and out...

Ken,

While I, and many of us, recognize that there is poverty in Mexico, and extreme conditions. How or why would it be better to have that poverty moved here to the US, and why should it be our burden to bear?

There is many, many countries, with people, worse off than the Mexican people. By the same logic you are using we should allow anybody that feels oppressed a free pass to the US. The problem with that is that we (Americans) are already maxed out on providing for "poor". All we are doing by giving amnesty to illegals is moving the poverty to the US.

And that is the best case scenario, assuming that all the illegals coming here are poverty stricken, just seeking a better life, rather than running drugs, human trafficking etc...

I know Mexicans would never bring their problems here to the US.

Here's a few stories showing their appreciation to America:

http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2012/06/16/man-injured-in-yakima-drive-by-saturday

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...kimavalleyshootings.html?syndication=rss

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/05/31/2163805/man-wounded-in-leg-in-yakima-gang.html

I could post a hundred more ......


There are multiple gang drug related shootings a day in rural E WA committed by starving Mexican students.

Celebrate diversity!

Eighty per cent of the over crowded local jail populated by poor starving students from Mexico.


http://www.yakimacounty.us/DOC/

Twenty years ago E Wa was great place to live. Not anymore

States like Georgia, Minnesota, Virginia, Maryland, Iowa, North Carolina, Oregon
experiencing the same appreciation.

So how does illegals working here effect the orphans in CA? What percentage of funds earned here go to alleviate that social blight?

It must relate, right?

I feel like I'm in a HSUS commercial with pictures of suffering puppies...

Kent

You folks are not understanding what I'm saying.
As I stated above, I'm opposed to illegal immigration.
I'm merely stating THEIR justification for illegally immigrating here.

Much, if not most of the money earned working here as an illegal immigrant gets sent back to Mexico to support their families still living there.

The ones coming to my area come here to sell meth coke heroin weed and commit drive by shootings, res burgs, rapes armed robberies.....

And how is sending BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to back home to Mexico every year by illegal aliens help the American Economy??

Does NPR have the answer to this question?

Alll the local ag workers here return home every Winter. Why would they return home to Mexico to starve?

Look, your justifications aren't correct mathematically, the percentages of why are low on your examples is all. Also your picture of Mexico is off and actually disrespectful of my friends that live there with no intention of coming here illegally.

The people in Mexico that live in life threatening poverty is low... poverty compared to the US but with sustainable resources are the majority, in a larger part of the world they would be considered rich.

Are they bored with the economic restrictions for most, yes.

The majority of Mexicans have education, healthcare, food, shelter, transportation and some entertainment in some standard... as humans we want to improve our experience and they can't in Mexico mostly because of the 'social environment'.

It's easier to come here than change the environment there.

Kent

Poverty is no more pervasive in Mexico than it would be here were it not for social services. I'm not as hardcore as some where those social services are concerned. I get hardcore though when it comes to using said services to support people who are not Americans. It becomes class warfare. There ought to be enough for everybody, but when you start taking from some and giving to others, where does it end? How much of your wealth are you willing to give to Mexicans who are here illegally?

And they're the ones nominally responsible for their environment there. Sadly, when they come here, they change the environment here to one similar to that back there.

Also sadly, those are the most harmless ones... imagine a 5% population demographic consisting of a 30% prison population for crime.

Kent

Sounds like the 17% of our existing population that commits about 80% of the crimes...

Bump

Village with no power or water, water is brought in with a leaky old water truck and he fills up 50 gallon barrels at each residence. Lights are running a wire out to the vehicle battery. The store has solar power and they watch TV under the cabana a couple hours a night sitting at picnic tables... no bar, restaurant or even liquor sold, just a 10X20 store that the owner drives his van 60 miles to Caborca for basic supplies. They even have a one room school.

Kids coming over and watching us pour concrete at my buddies house. Of course we fussed over them and the little one gave me a pretty shell as a gift.



Getting the local concrete plant up and running.



The ponga fleet coming in from fishing when the swells got huge... you can see they pull the boats up the sand with a truck and a rope.



The store, where we bring in some fish for them to sell in Caborca and also eat.



Part of the village on the horizon, mostly plywood and tin.



Is it boring for those living there... probably... not having conveniences/appliances may suck... teenagers don't stick around long... it will never change there or get better.

many head for America,some make it... some stay in the village system... others join the federales, cartels or brothels.

But they aren't starving.

Kent

If Hemingway were to write of this place, most here would daydream of paradise, whales, big game fishing... possibly an old man and the sea...

Life isn't as poetic...

Kent

We're lucky to have seen and known "old Mexico" when we did, Mister.

.......I think she's gone, now.

GTC

First, Obama is a Dictator now that he is ignoring the constitution. For that reason alone his "dream act" has to be rejected. Then we should send him to prison.

Second, when we reward criminals for breaking our laws we just get more of them. We don't need more criminals invading our country. What should happen is that the government should give 3 months notification before they start rounding these people up, confiscating everything they own and sticking them in prisons for 3 months before returning them home. All those that enter and stay illegally in the future should get a year in prison before being kicked out of the country.

I remember in 2000, I was in mexico probably four times, four different places... and the hope the people had when Fox was elected. It was to be a new era of prosperity.

wishing don't make something so...

Kent

I rode into Mexico City, just outta' Chiapas, on the eve of Carlos Salinas Gortari's inauguration,....something a little more than 10 years before. UNBELIEVABLE, seeing that place a "Ghost Town",....I mean there was NOTHING moving, and every corner had a sandbagged Infantry post on it. We grafted and corrupted our way into enough Booze, Good Food, and gentle company to ride out the following 48 hours,.....in a fairly 'Upscale' "Polanco" district,

.....right up the road, at "El Presiidente" ?

Fidel Castro,......

Salinas Gortari made it onto the cover of "Time Magazine", and was going to be THE answer to Mex's problemos.

WTF is that dope running SOB today,....Swiss ?

Mexico , Mexico,.....so far from God, so close to Los Estados.

GTC

You know what? None of the above is my responsibility. Why don't you and minnesota take care of them. We can offer free bus tickets. I am probably the one that took that picture of the toilet seat on the flag, i was there that day, watching a lot of these people being bussed in from california by sieu, the union. And having to talk people down that wanted to take things in their own hands, the demonstrators were being protected by the highway patrol, and telling these guys that was exactly what these bums wanted. I got a better idea, why don't you voluntarily increase your tax rate to 80% so they have a little more money for these programs. Like watching an illegal squirt five kids on u.s. soil, making them citizens, and then qualifying for God knows how many give away programs in arizona. And having to explain to a grandchild about college costs, lack of work being pushed out by illegals and so on. I swear, i think a lot of you dins have a genetic defect in your thinking.
oh yeah, neighbor accross the street that dang near lost his diesel truck a few weeks ago i would like to help put a few more in minn. too. You see diesels are a truck of choice for the import/export business.

One last contrast...

In 05 or 06, somewhere near the end of Fox's term. I was down in San Carlos Mex, supposedly getting paid back for doing some public relations for a High roller contractor with the city on a subdivision he was developing... More like he needed me to Captain his 45 footer on their diving expedition.

One night he said... come on, we need to meet with the vice president of mexico.

Huh?

Fox has a large scale development idea above Rocky Point where they want to build a tourist destination, very high class with a marina, multiple golf courses, resorts ect, closer to the USA. They want us to partner with them.

Uh, ok.

Now we leave my buddies house which is very nice and half way up the seaside promontory overlooking the marina, to the top where the large haciendas are. It was like one of those drug lord mansions in the movies. Huge party going on, guys in suits, girls everywhere... other things everywhere.

We get handed off to a couple different people and finally see a plan for the project... but the VP is unavailable at that time... rumor was he was with a couple of the female 'guests'. We can stay and party if we want.

We just left... hell, we had to be on the water at 4 the next morning.

Fox wasn't in office much longer and the bust here destroyed all development there.

Kent

BOTH "Coasts" of Mexico are LITTERED with failed 'resort developments,......another word for which might be ecological disasters.

ALL good enough to establish "Madrassa Bases", nonetheless.

Chit, Mud village in the middle of BombhuckE, v. a Tropical Beach with a Coconut Grove ?

We're SURROUNDED by clueless Mother Teresa types, and Ron's post NAILED that,....

.....a 10 X

GTC

If they are illegal than they need to go back to their country! The Mexicans do nothing but cause a strain on the U.S! If they were serious about making changes they would work on Mexico instead. They can go through a civil war and draft a constitution that they wish to adhere too just like the U.S. did!

Yep, Mexico has the largest percentage of immigrant force in the world, around 20% and most of that in the US.

As much as I like the mexican people, I can't wish their woes away. They have the natural resources, agriculture and infrastructure to be a 1st world country.

I really don't feel sorry for them like some african countries... though I do feel bad for the environment they allow.

Kent

AY,....

que Lastima, Mexico lindo,

con mas que tantos Diablos.

GTC

This just blew in, very fresh, and is in synch with this discussion,.....

A Conclusively Final Trip to Chihuahua - Arizona Range News: News

E.M. Hendricks for the Range News | Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:00 pm

In February, I saw I had a few days I could be gone from the homestead here in Cochise County. I thought I'd visit the ranch deep in the Sierra Madres in Chihuahua where I'd spent so much time years ago. Cieneguita de la Barranca, a community of several dozen people, is located in the pine forests above the deep canyons of the Batopilas and Urique Rivers. A geography not too dissimilar to the Grand Canyon region of Arizona but inhabited. The home of Tarahumara Indians and isolated ranchos far from roads and towns.

Sure, I knew that there were risks. The military is deployed to supplement civil law enforcement and the murder rate is extreme around Ciudad Juarez. Instead of crossing in the afternoon and spending the night in Casas Grandes as I ordinarily would, I crossed before dawn and allowed a long day to reach the Sierra. I wanted to take the old route through the eastern flank, the shortcuts I knew, through the small towns where I had had little adventures over the years.

From Agua Prieta, Sonora to Janos is a highway I have used since it was newly paved in the 1970s. It crosses the continental divide at the San Luis Pass and descends into the ranch country of Chihuahua where American interests once had huge spreads. This is Villa country. There are still vast ranches, good grass and small communities. Closer to Casas Grandes are Mennonite campos and Mormon farms.

Some 200 miles south is the municipio of Guerrero. I suspect that I was noticed in the town of Guerrero and followed out. My main misgiving in the planning was that had only a late model pickup truck. A four wheel drive, eight cylinder Toyota. It attracts too much notice in poor rural country and makes it hard to stop and talk to people.

Four o'clock in the afternoon. A Jeep SUV suddenly stopped just ahead of me on the two-lane highway, on a curve at KM17, up against a rock face. One individual walked up and muttered something about �get out�. No, I said, I wasn't getting out. It got a little heated. He said that he needed the truck. No, I wasn't giving up the truck.

We call them asaltantes, car-jackers. They are after newer trucks. Years ago there was a steady supply of trucks stolen in the United States and brought south. Chuecos, they were called, crooked in the sense that they had no license or registration. Increased vigilance at the border has sharply reduced the supply. Traficantes need fast trucks.

I shifted to reverse and backed up at high speed for a ways then spun around and headed back north at high speed. They were right on me and, at speeds of seventy or eighty, fired shots.

I'd hoped to outrun them to San Pedro or to the town of La Junta but I came up on a slow moving pickup and my pursuers forced me off the road. I called to the driver of the pickup. He emerged but saw the four men with guns and prudently drove off.

My assailant reappeared at the driver's side window, now greatly incensed and had a pistol in hand. The door was locked from the outside and he couldn't get it open and I knocked away his hand as he reached in. He called to his companions to help get this guy out of the car, looked me in the eye and said you're going to die. He then stepped back and raised the pistol.

That was the moment I thought I'd run out of ideas. I'd hoped to make it so difficult to carjack me that they'd give up.

Suddenly soldiers approached in a single truck from the south and sounded a siren. He quickly jumped in the jeep and they took off. I waved the soldiers on after them and followed a ways to see the outcome. They turned off the highway with the soldiers in pursuit and I stopped. I thought it might be awkward if the asaltantes ducked the pursuit and came back out.

I continued on to Creel, once a thriving tourist destination, the gateway into the Copper Canyon region. There are many large and well-appointed hotels that now stand nearly devoid of clientele. It is a busy town but the engine of progress has stalled. Few families have been untouched by violence.

I asked around until I located Ramon, the son of the family I'd intended to visit. He was glad to see me but appalled that I was there. You can't come here like that anymore, indicating my vehicle. Things have changed. Then I told him the story.

We spent the evening going over what I should do now. His son would take me out to the ranch the next day. Getting out of the mountains safely was a problem. He described a number of murders and hijackings around Creel in the last few weeks and described the municipio of Guerrero as particularly dangerous now. I asked how business operated. How people moved about. He said nighttime travel is out of the question and mornings and afternoons were dangerous. Midday in a convoy of several vehicles was only moderately life-threatening. His own son had been shot and killed by local police and part of my trip was to deliver to Ramon photographs I had of that son as a young boy.

I'd known Ramon since he was a teenager. He remembered how I had walked, driven and roamed on horseback around the mountains and canyons where he grew up. I know his entire extended family and dozens of mutual friends. I'd slept alone on trails and in many remote ranch houses. Word would always precede my return to his mother's house of where I'd been, what I'd done. Passing Tarahumaras would deliver news faster than I could travel. It was all of another era, he said, you can't do it anymore.

His mother had passed away since I'd been down there last, but his aunt and uncle were still out in Cieneguita and declined to move to town.

In the morning I returned and picked up Ramon. He directed me to the army post on a hill above Creel where we explained my predicament to the commander. I admitted that I now knew I had no business here and wanted out. After an hour or so of consultation up the chain of command, they decided on an escort out to the Cuahutemoc barracks. The regional commander, an army colonel, wanted to interview me.

The military vehicles are Dodge trucks with a mounted, belt loaded automatic rifle extending over the cab. Six men seated on benches, one standing with the rifle and two inside. The local commander rode with me. We talked of my trips, who I knew and how things had changed. He'd gotten the report of the previous afternoon and was well aware of how the character of the sierra had changed. He knew military control would fail. There is too much money not to start a corrosive action among officers. This is a police function. The state police were thoroughly corrupted and have probably been largely disbanded by now. The federal police are concentrated at checkpoints and on the border. Local officials fear for the lives of themselves and family. Thirty soldiers in Creel could not even claim civil control of town much less the area deeper in the sierra. Ramon had told me that beyond Creel out toward the ranch there is no law at all.

I suggested that it was a pity that the rescuing soldiers had not shot the malditos in pursuit. He said yes, but it was a delicate human rights issue for them to open fire on civilians. They had gotten away.

At San Pedro they turned me over to two trucks from the next district and we drove to Cuahutemoc. At the military base the colonel saw me right away. He'd received a report of the incident and had the description of the Jeep. He questioned me closely as to the appearance of the individuals, the manner in which I was stopped and whether shots had been fired. I especially noted the cold steady eyes of the gunman. The colonel was apologetic that I'd been threatened and admitted that he could offer no security. He did say that in civilian clothes he would not drive those highways at night.

I emphasized that I was headed out via Chihuahua city and that I did not intend to return. There was never a hint of making it difficult or expensive to close the incident. No soldier ever asked to open baggage or examine the truck until the checkpoints near the border.

Mexican presidential elections take place later this year. The term of Mr. Calderon was focused on confrontation with narcotraficantes. That the initiative has largely failed is likely to influence the selection of a new administration. There is a wider political issue involving U.S. policy on guns and drug smuggling with no clear focus. Some think there is a deliberate effort to keep Mexico, indeed all of Latin America, from first world status. Others blame the character of Mexicans themselves. As the breakdown of public security continues to play out in the northern states of the Republic, failed state conditions prevail.

(EM. Hendricks is a resident of Northern Cochise County.)

Years ago I used to drive 600 miles south of the border to Baccarac lake pulling a boat and tenting on the shore. In the small mountain villages east of Los Mochis, we would stop and give the matrons some cloths we collected by donations for them to give out. We also bought tubs of candy at Price Club... no elect or phones but somehow all the kids knew we were coming and would be out on the dirt roads... grab a handful and toss while going by.

I always threatened my kids I would take them to see the joy of a kid getting a penny candy, next time they cried for not getting the latest video game.

Don't know if you could get there and back now.

Kent

I was a readin' away in what turned out to be mighty fine thread, when I gazed on this jewel. I blew fluid, or leaked from every port of my body.

Good grief man, that is funny.

seemed appropriate, at the time.

I think some 'Adult Beverage' may have been involved in that posting.

GTC

Hey, it was buried pretty deep in the thread too. Things were progressin', a few short, but harmless jabs had been thrown, and a lot of informative posts were keeping me scanning along, when - WHAMO!

Set 'em up, and knock 'em down. I'm still wobblin' to my senses.

In 86 87 dating a girl in TX who had family deep in Mexico in the Sierra Madre Used to go down and visit them.

Wonderful people.