Along with a bunch of jobs. Lets here it for the unions. Just before the holidays, way to go.

Surely I won't have to buy twinkies made in China...

Unions are so awesome. If only evil business owners understood business economics like they do. We have several of the Nobel Prize winning union economists here. They'll be along to explain it to you post haste. It's 'magic'....

Oh well, what's a few more thousand on food stamps.

The insanity of some unions is legendary. WHY would the union "leadership" opt to stay out on strike when a complete closing is the result?? A bigger and better deal?? Hell no. Now NOBODY has a job. Organize this idiots! Do the union bosses at national level lose their pay?? Do they et their own "Golden Parachute"?? Will they share it with the out of work folks that they so "ably" "represented"???? Inquiring minds want to know.

That sucks bigtime, am I correct in assuming this to be a well over a hundred year old US company that just fell?

Gunner

Only one of the unions - the bakers - didn't come to an agreement. I saw an interview with their union guy and he said they fully expected Hostess to either cave in or sell off to another company that would give them a better contract lol.

No way someone is going to buy Hostess. What is going to happen, and the CEO of Hostess has already said his is the path they will take, is they will sell off the trademarks that are worth something to a company already in the business and sell off the plants/property for pennies on the dollar.

Here's a list of closings as of 7am Friday. 18,000 employees in total.

Plant Status

Birmingham, AL: Closed

Anchorage, AK: Closed

Los Angeles, CA (Hostess): Closed

Los Angeles, CA (Dolly): Closed

Oakland, CA: Closed

Sacramento, CA: Closed

Denver, CO: Closed

Jacksonville, FL: Closed

Orlando, FL: Closed

Columbus, GA: Closed

Hodgkins, IL: Closed

Peoria, IL: Closed

Schiller Park, IL: Closed

Columbus, IN: Closed

Indianapolis, IN: Closed

Waterloo, IA: Closed

Emporia, KS: Closed

Lenexa, KS: Closed

Alexandria, LA: Closed

Biddeford, ME: Closed

Boonville, MO: Closed

St. Louis, MO: Closed

Billings, MT: Closed

Henderson, NV: Closed

Wayne, NJ: Closed

Rocky Mount, NC: Closed

Cincinnati, OH: Closed

Defiance, OH: Closed

Northwood, OH: Closed

Tulsa, OK: Closed

Philadelphia, PA: Closed

Knoxville, TN: Closed

Memphis, TN: Closed

Ogden, UT: Closed

Salt Lake City, UT: Closed

Seattle, WA: Closed

Sounds like the union Twinkies really stepped on their Ding Dongs this time.

I think this is their 3rd bankruptcy since 2000, and the second since this past January. Surely the union folks knew the company wasn't in good shape.

I'm picking up the vibe that all of the left views the results of most recent election as confirmation that the vast majority of the country embraces their views. As such, it's a pretext for them to become even more belligerent in their demands. I heard Patty Murray on NPR this am, saying there will be no Fiscal Cliff deal if it goes beyond 50% entitlement cuts to 50% tax increases. There's simply not enough $ among the rich to pay for that % of the total deficit.

I don't have any gold. I think I need to get my lead mated up to some brass, pronto.

FC

Rick, that should become a campfire classic!

Gonna be sickening to see what else falls in the coming months due to blowzero care and the union BS combined, talking about out living your usefulness = unions.

And hell yes on part two, been wearing out the arm on my presses since 11/08.

Gunner

In all honesty, their bread had already went bankrupt. I used to think that Hostess bread was the best but the last few years, the cheap store brands were better. miles

They do it because the vast majority of the time it works and 'most' of them get to keep their jobs. They are simply mindless drones working for their union bosses and paying them to boot, all the while the union bosses convince the drones it's the guys signing their paychecks that are the evil ones. Quit ingenious really....

This is just the beginning, it'll get a lot worse before it gets better.

When I was much younger, Hostess Ding-Dongs and Budweiser was a breakfast staple. It is the end of an era.

During the 1950s when US Steel was king, Unions struck repeatedly and the industry was at the same crossroads Hostess is today. The Unions were warned at the impending loss due to cheaper costs abroads and their answer was "let it fail" which of course it did. You can fill in the blanks for just about any industry and it's not just unions. There was a thread here recently about college education and whether it was "worth it" or not. It was clear from that discussion where the problem lies and the democraps made great use of this during this past election.
The world needs McDonald's order clerks too and they can't expect to make the same money an "educated" person makes and that premise is easily extended to Twinkie Makers....

Yep - Note that the people at the Bakers Union are huge contributors to the workforce and I'm sure they will "feel the pain" of their union workers.

http://www.bctgm.org/international/bctgm_whofrank.html

http://www.bctgm.org/international/bctgm_whodavid.html

http://www.bctgm.org/international/bctgm_whojoeseph.html

They have all been Union leadership in one form or another for > 40 years. Bet they are not taking a pay cut.

Worked so well for Eastern Airlines, these morons figured they follow along.

Just too bad Chrysler wasn't afforded the opportunity to do the same.

Nothing quite like a Frozen Ding-Dong...RIP

I think that Little Debbie is behind alla' this,.....

That one was a bit more complicated. My Grandfather was a pilot for Eastern and Uncle a mech and Aunt a gate person. It was a combination of Frank Lorenzo and Union stupidity combined with deregulation, fuel prices and Eastern poorly upgrading their fleet 10-15 years prior. Lots of blame to go around.

Companies always die from the neck up.
Always....


dave

Just saw it online myself. 18,500 jobs gone. Here's the story.

Hostess Moves To Shutter Operations

Miles;

My wife worked for them until about five years ago when she retired. "Cheap store brands" were also made at the Hostess/Interstate bakeries and labeled with the store brands name. Flowers bakery out of Ga may pick up the slack in our area. Last two re-organizations were a results of misapproations and poor management. Same with the union. GW

Yep, espcially when they give the store away to the unions...always

As usual, nothing happens in a vacuum.

First Big Tex goes up in flames,..now no more Deep Fried Twinkies.!

Texas State Fair might as well close up shop.!

Tounge in cheek here...

Strapping on my tinfoil hat real tight but. It strikes me funny that the unions bein in tight with nanny and we all know how much moochelle hates junk food. That maybe this was planned as part of her war on junkfood

The generic Twinkies were never as good!

Little Debbie products- $1.79

Hostess products - $3.19

Appears that the same element (union voters)that voted themselves out of a job are the same ones that recently voted themselves out of a country. Gene pool has been sliding in the U.S. for a long time. The big influx the last ten years has lowered it even more. Fits into the Liberal picture, makes old Liberals look intelligent compared to the influx.

Used to be to immigrate to the U.S. it helped to bring a + skill. Now all is necessary is apply for benefits and cast a liberal vote, legal or not. Its all in the book "How to Destroy a Nation". GW

cross, ya think it's a conspiracy? Little Debbie, Aunt Jemima, Juan Valdez, I'm taking the whole minority, feminist thing. Poor old white Twinkies! Although those dark Ding-Dongs may be tough to fit into my theory. I doubt the MSM will follow up tho.

Well, sugar prices oughtta drop......

Glad to see those votes for Obama worked out for them. Idiots!!

Mike

White filling remember... They are uncle Toms.

Hooray, another union victory! Don't worry about the workers, Obama will take care of them.

Add Billings, Mt., to the list.

190 bakers decided they would rather be on welfare than to support the company and keep their jobs. Pretty stupid move.

The union wins again!

Well, you know, Union leadership is only looking out for the little guy....

LMAO... Kudos, sir!!!

LMAO! Chalk up another one for the stupid Obama supporters and union leaders.Just opted themselves out of a job.

What idiots!

[bleep] em and let it fold like GM should have.They are all gonna get what they richly deserve.Who needs Twinkies anyway?

You can contact the union at 301-933-8600 and ask them how Frank Hurt successfully changed a Ch 11 reorg into a Ch 7 liquidation bankruptcy.

That has got to take some skill!

Bottom line is Hostess is an archaic company producing the same chit products they always have, charging constomers more for less of their chit products.

Consumers have changed, hostess didnt.

The company has filed chapter 11 three times. When that happens, its the fault of leadership and poor management...period.

IMO, the union did hostess and the employees the favor of speeding up the inevitable and epic failure produced by mismanagement. Best case 18,500 employees work for 70% of their wage for a few more months until management makes the decision to close the doors anyway. Which, IMO, was going to happen even if the employees agreed to work for free.

Hostess Management screwed the pooch...and its 100% correct that companies die from the neck up.

This is a function of a poorly run company producting a chit product that nobody wants.

Gotta circle them wagons and toe that line, eh Buzz?

"Hostess had annual sales of about $2.5 billion. The company said it had been making 500 million Twinkies and 127 million loaves of Wonder Bread annually before Friday's shutdown."

Lord, could you please let me produce something that is so crappy that customers won't buy it as much as they weren't buying Hostess products? Amen.

I deal in reality.

Let me ask you a question.

Would you invest all your money in a company that produces a chit product that has filed chapter 11 three times in a couple years?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

But, the Hostess CEO is asking 18,500 employees to take a pay cut to bet their money on a sure loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.

"Hostess had annual sales of about $2.5 billion. The company said it had been making 500 million Twinkies and 127 million loaves of Wonder Bread annually before Friday's shutdown."

...and yet management still found a way to fugg' it up and lose it all.

Congratulations?

I wouldn't invest a dime in anything union run....

This is what always happens...

This CEO was called in to pull them out of the Chapter 11. He saw that labor costs were too high to do so. That's not so hard to understand. Unless you're union, of course...

Uh, your 'nobody wants their product' was the point.
Given you missed that, I realize we won't agree on the obvious cause of their folding up their tents.

Union and Non-Union companies come and go every day...that is what always happens when any company is run like chit (as is the case with Hostess).

With ya. Won't invest in union companies and make the best effort I can to buy USA and non union products, why support communists.

This CEO was called in to pull them out of the Chapter 11.

He did a great job...I wonder how much bread he'll make for his expertise...pun there.

Fixed it.

Union got what they deserved!

So every company that ever goes under is because of management? It's never because of labor? Awesome.
Man RickBin needs to start charging tuition for the education one can receive around here.

The greedy union thugs wouldn't let him do his job. Blame is on them.

I'll tell that to Costco next time I'm picking up a load of groceries. It's too bad, I really liked shopping there.

Now I'm not saying that in this instance Union stupidity wasn't to blame - there are plenty of times Unions need to be willing to take a hair cut in order to save their jobs and this might be one of those cases. What I am saying is that the rhetoric here often goes way out of line with reality and folks on both sides need a more realistic view of the world.

sounds like they had a popular product they could not sell cheaply enough to compete with Little Debbie and other non-union shop competitors, and the "workers" would rather collect unemployment than take a 1/3 pay cut.

and they're not "betting their money"....nobody's asking them to invest any of their own money in Hostess, just to work at a lower wage, in an economy where real unemployment is 15% or more, and even their reduced wage is probably pretty good for a semi-skilled trade.

You have a valid point Mike.

That said, there is still a reason that I refuse to shop Costco, and it's unions.

Wrong, who negotiated the contract? Just the Union?

Again, Management is half of any negotiation and if they agree to pay wages that will bankrupt a company...its their fault. Get a better negotiation team next time.

You can't negotiate with that kind of leverage. You either capitulate or everybody packs up and goes home.

There is no next time, thanks to the union

they did....the union rejected it. sayonara! I guess the union bosses still have their jobs.

I nominate this as 'Post Of The Day'.

The company's happy, the union's happy - everybody wins.

Always will. The Laborer's are just their pawns.

Non union shops are simply kicking the asses of the union shops and the unions are running out of options.

We need more Walkers in this country.

It's a beautiful thing to see, too!

That's where my investment money goes.

Maybe the way they were mismanaged is that they paid their employees too much.

Probably the 4th wife of a union baker.

I guess the unions understand the term GFY now...

You never negotiate with terrorists. But yes, sometimes they kill the hostage.
Hostage takers don't care about the hostage, by definition.

Really? With 2.5 billion in sales? Labor killed them?

Sure it did.

Hiring chit Managers probably had nothing to do with anything.

Oh man, ANOTHER corporate financial whiz!
Buzz, let me ask you, you have just been appointed "Jobs Czar" for the USA. What should the federally mandated minimum wage be?

The average wage for a Hostess bakery worker is/was $13.78/hr.

That doesn't sound excessive to me.

So almost twice, 190% of, the federal minimum wage isn't excessive for a factory bakery worker? Okaaaaayyyy........

I do my best to NOT buy from China, Japan and union made!

That does not sound like an unfair wage, but how much of that is Union dues, what are the health insurance and other benefit costs that go into it. Assuming our costs of close to $12,000 per FTE, we are looking at an additioanl $6 per hour in employee costs. And at what price point would Hostess have to price their food to realize a profit. They may be overly leveraged, but this is not a strong market for manufacturing location sales.

GeauxLSU,

Why have the past 6 CEO's that Hostess hired in the last 8 years not had a fuggin' lick of experience between them in anything to do with the baking/snack industry? Is it a good idea to pay a CEO with NO experience in the the business he is running $29K a week in Salary with almost double that in stock options and benefits?

You whine like a bitch about 13.78/hour being "overpaid" by people that actually HAVE experience in the job they are doing...yet systematically think 50K/week paid to a douchebag with zero experience is A-OK?

Is it a good idea to hire a fuggin' plumber to fix your car?

Of course, THAT FACT probably had nothing to do with the demise of Hostess.

Right?

No, it isn't imo.

It's okay though, Hostess aint over. They'll simply get 18,000 Mexicanos imported that'll be happy to work for 8 bucks an hour.

I heard on the Salt Lake City Fox channel last night that the executives still got their bonuses even though the company was going down hill. Asking the workers to take a pay cut when the bosses are getting bonuses is just too much in my opinion. The Unions screwed themselves but if the report was true about bonuses, I can see why they did it. They were p'o'd and not thinking straight!

Fair point...and why importing Mexicans is so popular today.

Of course, theres always this to ponder if you're an employee of hostess.

When a company hires a LIQUIDATION CEO prior to wage negotiations (to save the company), you'd have to be total fuggin' idiot to believe that Rayburn/Hostess is even remotely serious about trying to save the company. He was hired to liquidate the company...just a matter of when and how much he could bilk out of the employees.

He's a fuggin' hatchet man...plain and simple.

So you get to ask questions and I answer them but you don't answer mine? OK, you are not alone in those rules.
I take it you've never been a C level exec anywhere? It's not about the 'bakery industry'. It's about managing a retail goods manufacturing company. If the CEOs were coming up with new recipes and had never been in a kitchen before, you 'point' might have some merit.
But I concede. Blasted management strikes again. The unionistas are victims again... well... except for the union bosses of course. They win either way.

Depends. What critieria for those bonuses based on? IMO bonuses based on stock prices are not in the long term best interest of a company but it happens and the executives themselves don't set the criteria.

RIP my friend...

If the company is failing, then the execs are failing. Execs are there to lead the company to profits. Granted, union contracts can hamstring them if the market changes after the contracts are signed, but there shouldn't be any bonuses paid when the company is running in the red.

Soooooooo I wonder how much they will sell for on EBay! Got to love you guys arguing over who killed Twinkie the Kid. I sure both sides of this argument here are privy to all teh facts involved.

I got to run now to stock up at my local grocery store.....prepare for the zombie hoards ya know!

Agreed. I'll take it further, the last publicly traded company I worked for will hopefully be the last. But the older I get the less it matters I suppose.

Oh bullchit...those execs deserve their BONUS pay...its the workers that dont deserve their $13.78/hour SALARY.

Some of you are under the misconception that 'bonuses' are only paid when a company performs well. I have never seen an executive bonus plan where the financial well being of the company is the only item they were bonused on. It many cases it's not even remotely the majority of what they are bonused on. And bonuses are not 'extra'. They sign on the dotted line when hired. It is part of their compensation just like salary. Variable, yes, but not 'extra'.

The expression "monkey on your back" comes from an ancient fable about a man who, in a time of plenty, carried a monkey on his back and fed the monkey a banana whenever he ate one. (But today, no one pays any attention to the wisdom of ancient fables. And no body here will pay any attention to this post. �'est la vie.)

Came a time of famine. Fewer and fewer bananas until there were none. But the monkey's appetite for bananas still demanded satisfaction. It did the man in.

A friend of mine died from the same parasitic insistence. Literally.

In Alaska as a young man, he ate raw caribou and ingested parasites. As long as he was fit, the appetite of that inner colony was no problem. He stayed hard and strong as long as he was active.

He went back to his childhood home in Germany when he retired � stayed too long � got sick enough to be hospitalized � died there as puzzled doctors strained and struggled to diagnose what was killing him.

Autopsy revealed the cause � that colony of parasites had eaten his life out of him.

And of course the parasites died, too.

Unions often = monkeys = caribou worms.

That's the nature of the beasts.

If they did what the items called for in their plan they not only deserve it, they are legally entitled to it.
Never had a bonus plan huh Buzz?

And Employees also agreed on a contract of wages/benefits and also signed on the dotted line through negotiations with Management (who signed the same contract).

Fair aint Fair though when the fertilizer hits the ventilator...

Seems it is. They are all out of work.

Man, i'd sure like to make 50k a week for running something I dont know anything about.
You going to find an awful lot of guys on this board with that bald spot on the back of there heads......
Companies always die,
From the neck up.
Always.

dave

Were the Unions representing Hostess workers and Hostess in labor negotiations?

Yes.

Did Hostess offer the Unions a contract that would pay money for services rendered?

Yes.

Did the Unions turn down said deal?

Yes.

Did Hostess warn the Unions that they could either accept the deal or they would file bankruptcy?

Yes.

Did they file bankruptcy, and as of today are most of those Union workers out of a job?

Yes.

We can argue all day long about management, companies dying from the neck up, Hostess was a dead man walking, CEO's hired to do this and that. And you can continue to toe the Union line all you want. But none of that will change the FACT that the UNIONS walked away from the table and left these people out of work.

Thousands of workers out of work today, thanks to an agreement to pay a third party to collectively bargain for their jobs. Tell me again why a BAKER needs a UNION. i have a hard time understanding why a freaking baker or school teacher or restaurant worker or an electrician needs a union other than pure and simple GREED.

stop toeing the party line and tell me why a grown man would need somebody else to help him negotiate his salary.

smalljawbasser,

You're right, Hostess was a dead man walking...everyone with a single firing brain cell knew it.

The current CEO, was not hired to save the company...he was hired to liquidate the company (hatchet man). Thats what the guy does, thats his expertise as a "CEO".

Any employee, or anyone with even a remote clue, could figure out the company was toast either way.

I'd also tell them to stick in their a$$ in this case. Why work for 70% for a few more months to see the exact same result? Why let them use your 30% Salary savings to pay off the top execs, stock holders, and the liquidation CEO?

Just so you can watch them close the doors on THEIR terms with an even larger profit from ripping off their employees? The current CEO never had any intentions of saving the company and anyone that thinks otherwise is a FOOL. The previous 5 CEO's they hired in the last 8 years couldnt do it...what would lead you to believe the current liquidation CEO could?

I can tell you exactly why you need somebody else in Negotiations. Management hires experts to represent Management and negotiate with employees, vendors, safety, etc. etc. Thats ALL they do, full time job that they're paid for.

You expect an employee wiring a house or baking bread to be successful in contract, health/safety, benefits, etc. negotiations to represent themselves versus paid experts? They have a full time job they're doing already, and it has nothing to do with negotiations of any kind. Management would eat them alive in negotiations...FACT. Akin to pee-wee Herman taking on Mike Tyson in a boxing match...aint happening.

Having properly trained/educated negotiation team creates a level playing field in all negotiations. For the record, I'm pretty damn good at it.

Its the same reason I'd hire a lawyer to represent me in court...if you dont, you're simply begging for the mercy of the court system.

I dont beg...wont do it.

It is excessive if they are only producing $13.77/hr in value.

With the wage add in all the union benefits and determine if that reaches the excessive point. GW

One false notion that underlies all this is the assumption that a job exists for the benefit of the worker. No one in his right mind hires employers just so that they'll have plenty of good food on their tables.

Are the unions garbage?????


Yes

No Ken, Americans have a RIGHT to a job and they have a RIGHT to make as much as they 'want' regardless of how much value they provide. The list of RIGHTS in America is growing everyday. The list of responsibilities is going the other way of course.

Unions are good. Good at killing the goose that laid the golden egg.


tom

Well if you consider that garbage, before it was garbage, was something that served a purpose but now just stinks up the place and is expensive to get rid of and if you don't get rid of it it lowers the value of the place it resides.... I guess you could make that case.

No they dont...but they do have a right to form a Union, the right to Union Representation and the right to Negotiate Contracts.

Not the rest, as you falsely imply.

You've missed the sarcasm in LSU's voice. It's loaded with oppositalk.

Aren't you the one that compared the union worker to Pee Wee Herman?
I suppose they have a 'right' to demand anything their little hearts' desire. But when their demands outstrip their value and they wind up unemployed all the while their trusted still employed fat and happy union bosses still get paid, well, you'll have to excuse my diminished capacity for sympathy at their plight. But then again, I'm not as strong as Pee Wee Herman I guess when it comes to negotiating for myself.

Unions = legalized (and encouraged) mutiny.

Having owned my own business for about thirty years, I always paid my employees their fair share. They never missed a payday and, if they were working FOR the good our our team, they got regular raises.

Many paydays, Karen and I went home with no check. Sometimes we caught up later, but mostly not.

I simply love it when folks talk about the RICH self-employeed small business man; AKA a hearless SOB.

Diff subject: I observing the hiring of executives in the larger firms, I am ever amazed that the companies seem honor-bount to hire out of another industry. In the firearms industry, you've gotta be gunny or you fail.

I simply cannot tell you how many times I've seen folks from the bread, or carpet, or lumber industry sign-on as the El-Presidente of a gun or optics company. They may know marketing and employee control, but they know nothing about the firearms industry.

The singular exception was my good friend Gary Williams. Gary signed on at Leupold and was from the carpet or linoleum industry, but he quickly became Chub's protege. Gary thrived at Leupold and in the firearms industry, in general. He's gone from Leupold now ... and it is totally Leupold's loss, in my totally honest opinion.

God Bless,

Steve

PS. Totally off the subject; when Karen and I retired, at age 49, we gave our best employee, a lady named Gail, two years salary and I paid the taxes. The lady was wonderfully appreciative and followed her dream of starting up a small jewelry store.

She went broke in two years.

There is owner mentality, where we work hard to perpetuate the health of the business.

Then there is employee mentality, where they want to milk every frickin' dime out of the business and give as little as possible back.

Gail was unable to adapt to ownership. She'd look outside and the sun was shining, so she'd close up shop and take a two-day trip to the beach. Meanwhile, there were customers pounding on her door.

And she hired everything done. Trust me, an owner has to be able to do any job in the store better than any tradesman or any of his employees. To be successful takes enormous sacrifices and no ego.

ST

Yep, and an employer has the right to reject contracts. The problem with union shills is they somehow believe they have some sort of inherent ownership of the company. This probably stems from the fact that their attitude is "if management doesn't give us what we want we'll just shut this place down."

Just a question.

Was Bain Capital involved in this at all?

Bet they blame this on Bush and or Romney.
Yea,unions are just looking out for the rank and file...always.
Makes you wonder why the Teamsters agreed to the new contract.

And needed in todays business climate...

As someone already stated, why in the HELL do I need, or would I want, someone to negotiate MY salary.

[bleep] the meek right in the meek hole.

You saw the wink...

Haven't read through all the posts, but I've got to say it if nobody else will.

Their products taste like crap.

Maybe there was a time when they were made better, but it sure isn't now. Sorry to see the jobs go, but I'll not miss the Twinkies.

Their hotdog buns are excellent. Soft and goody.

The sweet junkfood is garbage.

Twinkies and Ho Ho 's are going for 100.00 a box on ebay already. WTF? Can't people find better crap to blow money on?

Yep, and an employer has the right to reject contracts. The problem with union shills is they somehow believe they have some sort of inherent ownership of the company.

Yep, and the Union has the right to reject a contract as well.

Unions assume no inherent ownership of the company. Their concern is the fair treatment of Employees, a safe working environment, and to make sure the Company is living up to the contract they agreed to.

I always said that if I owned a company and they voted to unionize, I would shut it down as soon as possible. miles

"Hostess's plan to pay Mr. Driscoll $1.5 million in a yearly base salary plus millions more in additional awards�the full details of which Hostess didn't disclose�sparked the ire of a federal bankruptcy watchdog and one of the biggest unions in the case.

"They have amazing laws in this land that allow a company to file bankruptcy and give the CEO...such a lucrative contract while demanding deep, deep givebacks from its employees," Frank Hurt, the president of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, or BCTGM, said in an interview last month. "

Oh schit!..Like a prom dress on prom night..I'm off to the store to buy Ho Ho's!

And thats entirely your right to do so...Management makes the decisions on how or even if they want to run a business.

Yer a fuggin Union Shill that just doesn't get it!

Oh Yeah, here is the Blame aimed at Romney!

[b]Union: 'Bain-style' killing of Twinkie[/b]

This time it�s being used against Hostess Brands, the Twinkies and Wonder Bread maker that announced Friday it was closing. AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka drew the comparison in a public statement Friday.

�What�s happening with Hostess Brands is a microcosm of what�s wrong with America, as Bain-style Wall Street vultures make themselves rich by making America poor,� Trumka said in a public statement. �Crony capitalism and consistently poor management drove Hostess into the ground, but its workers are paying the price.�
(Also on POLITICO: Twinkie-maker Hostess to close)
Earlier Friday, Hostess Brands announced that it would be closing, which the company said was precipitated by a workers� strike.
Trumka�s comparing Hostess to Bain comes after an election in which former GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney was criticized for co-founding Bain Capital.
The union leader took the workers� the side, saying Hostess� leaders and policies were �wrecking America.�
(Also on POLITICO: Petition wants Obama to save Twinkies)
�These workers, who consistently make great products Americans love and have offered multiple concessions, want their company to succeed,� Trumka said in the statement. �They have bravely taken a stand against the corporate race-to-the-bottom. And now they and their communities are suffering the tragedy of a needless layoff. This is wrong. It has to stop. It�s wrecking America.�
The closure of Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, means the company will lay off its 18,500 employees. In 2009, Hostess came out of bankruptcy thanks in part to private equity firm Ripplewood Holdings, which made a $130 million investment, CNBC reported Friday. Hostess filed again for bankruptcy in January, and its debt was later purchased by investment firms, including two hedge funds: Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital, according to a CNN Money report.
Last week, thousands of Hostess union member employees went on strike because of cut wages and benefits, The Associated Press reported Friday.
Hostess has said the company was unprofitable, in part due to union workers� demands. (The workers who went on strike were members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union.)

So now Hostess has no company, no employees, no working environment, and no contract. Somehow you're defending this?

The CEO of Hostess said at least a full month ago that if they didn't reach an agreement they were going to shut the plants down and sell off the trademarks and other assets. I remember reading it maybe 4-6 weeks ago over on ARFCOM.

Now all the sudden when they interview the employees they say they didn't see it coming.

Shows you how stupid people are. Regardless of what had or hadn't been previously announced, if you walk out on a job you gotta know it can happen.

Can't the federal government save the Twinkies, like they saved General Motors?

It's not at all unusual that the rank-and-file employees didn't see it coming � but you can bet your sweet bippy that their esteemed leaders did � and being drunk with power, thought that their persistent bellicosity could blast it into oblivion before it came to pass.

Reality can be so brutally nasty � especially when you stuff the shell of your flak jacket with belly-button lint and expect it to stop .30-06 FMJs at muzzle range.

They thought their Ding-Dongs were too big to fail. They were wrong.

Petition to WH to bailout twinkee maker

My elders taught me to be wary of those who speak of people and organizations in absolute terms - like "always".

So, dave, how do nations die?

Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that you are correct in that statement. What, then, do the unions assume?

They had a choice (the union). taking an 8% pay cut, or taking a 100% pay cut. I guess their greedy nature got the best of them, and they grabbed for the bigger number..........

Yep, you can reject contracts just like you can reject any other job offer. If you don't like what you are offered or are able to negotiate then go down the road. You weren't able to come to an agreement so their is no suitable offer of work. But ya'll don't do that. Instead unions threaten and hold the company hostage under the treat of strike, strong arming to get what you feel you are "owed." Then you often violently assault people who are willing to cross the picket line. Sounds like legalized racketeering to me.

Most unions have the "you didn't build it mentality" when it comes to the ownership of the company, with the addition of "or else we'll shut you down." It's an offshot of the entitlement mentality, plain as day.

Unions usually are not concerned with the fair treatment of employees as they negotiate for wages that are much higher than is commensurate for the work their members actually perform. Look at how much an auto factory worker earns. They don't deserve that, but if they don't get it they will shut that company down in a heartbeat.

In addition unions work for things that have nothing to do with their purpose you stated. Look at teachers' unions and how they are involved with students' curriculm.

Ultimately, unions create an "us against them" culture. It is the company that is always screwing over their members, so instead of trying to become the very best employee possible and letting that take you somewhere union members engage in this "us against them culture." This culture essentially removes the insentive to be a great employee.

Is there any rwonder why there are very few union employees who actually work upin the company and better themselves over time? Nope. Unions would rather they stay at the bottom in order to maintain their power base.

Out of everything you wrote at least got this one thing right.

I know a guy that has been a faithful employee, do anything kind of guy for a company that just laid off him and several other long term employees. You know why???

Because he worked for them for so long, did such a great job that he earned the raises they offered but now that he was topped out at a whopping $16/hr they fired him and hired a bunch of young pimple faced kids at $9/hr. When I see and hear of how those altruistic bosses treat good, dedicated employees I can't help but think unions ARE necessary. If he'd have been in a union those fat [bleep] couldn't have done that to him.

No....at least they shouldn't.It didn't save GM either,which still owes taxpayers about $30 bill of the orginal $51 bill it took to "bail it".The taxpayers will take a hit with GM,too.

Governments role in the economy is to get the hell out of the way,let commpanies that cannot survive,fail.When they bail things out,they only delay the inevitable,and screw things up in the process.

at the end of the day, none of this matters. someone else will buy the name, and someone else will manufacture and sell the most profitable products of the former hostess line. as in the past, the unions will attempt to control this new workforce. the question is, will the new workers allow themselves to be unionized after the recent collapse of hostess? my guess would be YES. so, it goes on.........

I am going to miss having my Devil Dogs and Funny Bones when I visit the east coast next time.

Hey OKBOWMAN et al...

I can tell you how I would have negotiated this "30% reduction in pay to save the company" crap.

The buckwheat would have been sorted from the bullshit in about 3 sentences and everyone would have known who was...and wasnt serious about "saving the company".

1. I'll agree to a 30% decrease ONLY if every single employee from the CEO to janitors take the same cut in salary and benefits.

2. If Hostess folds the tent within 2 years, you backpay all the employees the 30% you took to "save the company".

3. If the company is out of the red and making money after 2 years, you restore wages and we move on.

If they didnt agree to those 3 items...kiss my ass, you already planned on closing the doors anyway. Negotiations over.

No more Ding Dongs what's a person to do we are all going to starve now.

Look to your ragheaded president.
Pretty good start.


dave

The deadliest Ding Dong of all, by recent national vote, is still with us for at least four more years.

I've got news for everyone...get used to it. Business are folding everywhere...most avoiding Obamacare.

One of my subcontractors PC board mfgr., slammed the doors today, because they can't afford the extra overhead, compliments of [bleep].

Typical small business that sees the writing on the wall.

To the dumb [bleep] who voted for this trainwreck, enjoy.

Tony

That's it right there.

You don't really think that CEO would agree to cut HIS pay though do ya'?

No, and you can bet the farm the fugger very likely had no intention of saving the company...only money via a 30% labor cost cutting effort prior to him folding up Hostess.

Apparently all the rest think the CEO's heart was in the right spot.

I'd of found out...real quick at a negotiating table, and thats a fact.

Sounds eminently reasonable. I wonder if this kind of tactic was tried in the case of Hostess? Of course, a really good manager who was there for the long haul would already have put something to cut his own salary on the table in order to create some sense of good faith.

I must say.... watching the union cut their own thoat and hostess firing them all is the first thing that has made me smile since the election....

Look up the definition of a parasite.... unions are classic paracites... this time they actually killed the host or hostess

I wonder why HOSTESS just didn't hire replacement workers? It can't be that hard to train someone to make twinkies. I bet over 25% of the people who posted on this thread could probably even be trained to make twinkies. I wonder if maybe management may have really ran the place in the ground and thought maybe this was a good way to save face. I wonder how much management took in the way of concessions? Just wondering out loud.

I'll pass on the ass kissing part, but I will take the assets, find some Mexicans, and start a new business. Or, I might sell the assets and retire someplace - maybe find a nice forclosure in Wyoming I can pick up for a song.

They're blaming Romney

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...Hostess-But-Workers-Are-Paying-the-Price

Obama didn't save anything! In fact, there seems to be a growing sentiment that GM will need another bailout before Obama leaves office. The feds own 500,000,000 shares of stock. The value has shrunk to $10 billion and they (TAXPAYERS) have lost $16 billion.
For the feds to break even with the taxpayer dollars, the stock has to reach $53. Today its closed at $23.85.

Further, the bond holders were "hosed" by Obama. Many of these were older Americans who held them due to their stability and many use the income as they are retired.

So, Obama didn't save a damn thing! He put the American taxpayer on the hook, all the while currying the favor for union support!

Because as mentioned multiple times it's HIGHLY unlikely Hostess and their dipsh.it management intended to save the company. The 30% pay cut was most likely to pad the pockets of the dipshi.ts that ran it into the ground.

$13 and change per hour GMAFB....for a billion dollar+++ company that's been around forever. Management should be doing the Mussolini swing dance.

I just threw up in my mouth a little. Dear God. Where do we get such stupid people?

Courtesy of unionized public teachers of course.

I totally agree with you AcesNeights, I was just being sarcastic in response to most of the rather simple minded posts on the subject. It is always easy to blame what you really have no understanding about other than what you read that some idiot posts on an open forum. I've been a working IBEW member for 25 years now. Proud of the work I've done over the years and the living it has provided for myself and my family. I own firearms, hunt, am a voting registered Republican and pay in the 34% tax bracket. I have non-union electricians come to me weekly wanting to know how to get in the union workforce. I take the time to explain the Apprenticeship program and the training involved and most don't want to make the commitment. I understand that is their choice and take the time to answer their questions anyway. Shame more people can't be more open minded also. I hope everyone has a good evening, but I have to get to bed. Last weekend of gun season here in KY for zone 3.

Everybody needs government deadbeat jobs.

They know no shame! and have'nt a clue.

Hey dave, how did you get the raghead as Pres? Did he elect himself?

Waitin' !!

Waitin' !!

Correct me if I'm wrong. As I understand it, management came to the table and told the union the with the looming cost of The Affordable Care Act they could not remain solvent without reducing wages and benefits. The union said no, (Stupidly or not) so the company will shut down. Now as a side note, the unions supported Obama so it's like cutting off their nose to spite their face. They should have listened.

If I was that management I would not go into a loosing game like The Affordable Care Act provides. I would simply close, liquidate assets and call it a day. I would not struggle with impending doom and loss of everything. I would not get in a position to have to file bankruptcy because that would place my company under the rule of the courts. Can't blame the company, take what you have and get out. I have a feeling this is not near the end of that kind of decisions.

I haven't seen referring to obamacare as the reason for requesting pay cuts.

Maybe not, but since companies deal with projected profits and cost it had to be part of the consideration.

18 plus thousand folks are out of work. Don't even need to focus on who's right or wrong. In business,there are winners and losers. Hostess CEOs and management can absorb the dynamic and still be finacially secure.They are the winners. 18K out of work and,as of now,right or wrong doesn't really doesn't matter. They are the losers.

Why was it necessary is the question.

It's important to note that there were two unions involved in this mess. The Teamsters and the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union. The company opened it's books to both and the Teamsters looked over the books and acknowledged that taking cuts were possible and they could work with mgt and figure out a deal. The Bakers Union said no.

So, the reason their current cost model won't work out in the future is immaterial (but your idea certainly sounds plausible). One Union figured it out for their members. The other didn't serve theirs.

Twinkies � and 18000 jobs � fall victim to union-management dispute; Update: Teamsters throw bakers union under the bus?
November 16, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Hooked on Ho-Hos? Find Ding-Dongs delectable? Were Twinkies an indelible (if particularly edible) part of your childhood? Be prepared to consign them all and many other junk-food delicacies to nostalgia. Hostess, which has made these sugary staples for years, announced this morning that they will liquidate their business and end production after failing to negotiate new labor contracts with several unions. Along with these confections, 18,000 jobs will also disappear:

�We deeply regret the necessity of today�s decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike,� said Gregory F. Rayburn, chief executive officer. �Hostess Brands will move promptly to lay off most of its 18,500-member workforce and focus on selling its assets to the highest bidders.�

About one-third of the company�s workers are union members who are unhappy about the company�s cutbacks during its bankruptcy reorganization.

But problems with several unions � including the Bakery, Confectionery, and Tobacco workers and the Grain Millers International Union � have prevented the company from moving forward. Hostess said it will seek bankruptcy court permission to sell all of its assets. The company said bakery production has already shut down.
Without much more data than this, it�s impossible to say whether the unions or the company has been unreasonable in this dispute, or whether it might be a blend of both, as is usually the case. Sugary snacks like the kind Hostess produces have fallen out of political favor, certainly, but I doubt that sales have dropped dramatically. They have been a ubiquitous presence in supermarkets, convenience stores, and kid�s lunch bags since before I was a child, and in moderation don�t do any harm to anyone who is otherwise healthy.

Those aren�t the only places where Hostess-brand snacks have impacted the culture, either. Twinkies have especially captured the cultural imagination, and in one notable case, the legal imagination. When Dan White stood trial for the 1978 murders of Harvey Milk and George Moscone in San Francisco, his attorneys tried to argue that White had a diminished capacity to form an intent to murder, thanks to depression that became intensified by consumption of large amounts of sugary snacks. The media dubbed this the �Twinkie Defense,� and it proved successful, as White only got a seven-year sentence. California eliminated its diminished-capacity defense shortly afterward.

On a more fun note, we�ll always have this scene from Ghostbusters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pzaQjS1JstY



That used to be a big Twinkie. Perhaps all sides can take one last deep breath and try working together to save 18,000 jobs rather than see an American institution disappear, along with a lot of livelihoods.

Update: I updated the headline to highlight the jobs as well as the Twinkies. Also, the jobs lost were nationwide, not in Texas, so I deleted that reference.

Update II: Like I said, I haven�t paid much attention to this fight, so I don�t have a lot of insight into whether labor or management has been more unreasonable. However, the Teamsters� web site seems to lay the blame on the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM) for refusing to go along with the Teamsters to accept the last offer from Hostess:

In fact, when Hostess attempted to throw out its collective bargaining agreement with the Teamsters in court, the Teamsters fought back and won, ensuring that Hostess could not unilaterally make changes to working conditions during the several months� long legal process that recently ended. Teamster Hostess members were allowed to decide their fate by voting on the final offer conducted by a secret mail ballot. More than two-thirds of Hostess Teamsters members voted with 53 percent voting to approve the final offer.

The BCTGM chose a different path, as is their prerogative, to not substantively look for a solution or engage in the process. BCTGM members were told there were better solutions than the final offer, although Judge Drain stated in his decision in bankruptcy court that no such solutions exist. Without complete information, BCTGM members voted by voice votes in union halls. The BCTGM reported that over 90 percent rejected the final offer and three of its units ratified the final offer.

On Friday, Nov. 9, the BCTGM began to strike at some Hostess production facilities without notice to the Teamsters despite assurances they would not proceed with job actions without contacting the Teamsters Union. This unannounced action put Teamster members in the difficult position of facing picket lines without knowing their right to honor such a line without being disciplined.

As is our longstanding tradition, Teamster members by and large are honoring Bakery Worker picket lines when encountered and complying with their contractual obligations when not encountering picket lines. The BCTGM leaders are putting Teamster members in a horrible position � asking them to support a strike that will put them out of a job when they haven�t even asked all their members to go on strike.

That strike is now on the verge of forcing the company to liquidate � it is difficult for Teamster members to believe that is what the BCTGM Hostess members ultimately wanted to accomplish when they went out on strike. We may never know unless the BCTGM members, based on the facts they know today, get to determine their fate in a secret ballot vote. Teamster members would understand that the will of the BCTGM Hostess membership was truly heard if that was the case.
That�s a pretty remarkable statement from the Teamsters.

Update (MKH): Just a little background. There�s a lot going on, here, though the bakers union strike was certainly the last straw for Hostess. The company has been in bankruptcy twice in the last decade, and as Allahpundit notes, the culture of organics and calorie-counting was working against them.

But the bakers union deserved to get thrown under the bus by the Teamsters because it looks like they threw the Teamsters under the bus, first. The Teamsters and the bakers worked together to come to a deal with Hostess in September. The bakers were quiet during negotiations, and apparently pulled a surprise move when they rejected the deal.


Hostess, which also owns Ding Dongs, Ho Hos, Wonder Bread and other celebrated baked goods, has been in Chapter 11 since January, its second such filing in a decade. The key parties have been two major hedge funds and two big unions, and they�ve been fighting over wages and pensions. Hostess contends givebacks are needed for the company to emerge from bankruptcy. The unions respond they�ve given up enough. Last month, Hostess made what it said was its �last, best offer.� CEO Greg Rayburn told Fortune that union rejection would result in the company immediately filing to liquidate�and putting thousands of employees out of work. Union members were faced with a Hobson�s choice: accept drastic concession or lose their jobs.

Late last Friday the largest unions�the Teamsters�announced that by a narrow vote, 53.6% to 46.4%, its Hostess rank-and-file had approved the new collective bargaining agreement. (Out of 7,900 Teamsters voting at the company, slightly more than half cast votes). Rayburn and Teamsters leadership both offered up measured words about the �difficult� decision.

But shortly thereafter, word came that the 7,000 employees of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union had rejected Hostess� proposal. (No details of the vote were announced, though some press reports suggested there were only voice votes at locals rather than a written mail tally.) Though the leader of the bakers� union in recent weeks had excoriated the proposal, the rejection was nonetheless curious. That�s because the bakers� union had been quiescent for months in bankruptcy court, letting the Teamsters engage Hostess management and the hedge funds over the company�s demands to restructure by scuttling existing labor agreements.
This is what the deal looked like. It sounds like the Teamsters really did make sacrifices, and many of them were crossing the bakers� picket line to keep the company functioning:

The proposed new labor deal consists of an immediate 8% wage cut and work rules more favorable to the company. Employer contributions for health insurance would decrease 17%. Hostess contributions to multi-employer pension plans would cease until 2015, at which point the current required level of funding would plummet from $100 million to $25 million. According to Rayburn, the proposal has been endorsed by Hostess�s key secured lenders, which are led by hedge funds Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital. One estimate put cost savings for Hostess in the neighborhood of $200 million.

For their part, the unions would receive two seats on a restructured nine-member board of directors and 25% of equity. That would make the unions part of Hostess� capital structure for the first time.
Maybe they can still come to some deal. I�m guessing after the company�s previous threats to shut down, the bakers might have thought they were bluffing. The deal the Teamsters took was painful, but it�s because the company was truly in dire straits. The roughly 6,000 bakers are really handing a raw deal to 12,000 of their colleagues. And, barring that, the brand is still worth money. It won�t immediately help those who will lose their jobs in this dispute, but Twinkies may be back owned by someone new, their labor obligations vacated, and likely in a right-to-work state.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pzaQjS1JstY[/video]

I buy 3-4 pies a week (little debbies) & IIRC they are about 1/3 the cost of the hostess brand...good on the union workers taking a stance & sticking with it... The ILWU costs thousands of truckers idle time in excess of 2 1/2 hrs. a day.

A nice bitch slap of reality to union workers is way over due...

MM, Little Debbie is owned by Hostess buddy, they are gone too.

So basically, very few on this thread actually know what their talking about,but freely give advice on how to run company's with 20,000 Employees.

As the World turns....so does the 'fire.....

Little Debbie is owned by Mckee Company.

Lots of Cops will now retire with nothing to eat

Dude... ...say it ain't so...

When this was announced the company Mckee is a Subsidiary of Hostess, go look at their holding sheets ya dumbschit know it all.

SO, are you guys telling me my 50cent swiss cake rolls are going under?

I'm likely to kick wholesale ass on the first union baker I come across....

Mckee is a privately owned company,

You've seen their "holding sheets"?

I ain't arguin with you, as you already know it all. I'm done

I grew up on Hostess pies and must admit that the cherry variety, I have do have a certain weaknes for.



That said, looks like a Mexican company, Bimbo is looking to buy out the failed business.

How many here would continue to choke down the stuff knowing the business was Mexican owned????



http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...ompany-bimbo-may-be-eyeing-twinkies?lite

Some of the best eats I've ever had were mexican... Tijuanan at that...

Quitter..

He ain't quitting.

He just went down to the 7-11 to stock up on swiss cake rolls.

The way the quality of Hostess products have gone, I would say this might be a real opportunity for the right company.
Sad for 18K plus workers but life goes on.

If you rad the Bangor ME. article linked here, you will see how effective brainwashing can be. The unions and their membership are proud that they sank the company. They are an "inspiration" to others to do the same. Right out of Das Kapital!

I've always tried to lead from the top down. In this case Hostess management got fat raises, up to 300% while asking their employees to accept less. I'm not sure why they weren't the first to take less... It's kind of hard to sound credible when your asking someone to do something you won't do yourself, or in fact do the exact opposite. I don't think the union has any more blame than the management in this case.

Now this is a problem. Forget the workers what am I suppose to do...

Me too.

Who's arguing? You erroneously said Hostess owned Little Debbie,

I corrected you.

Dolly Madison... zingers and chit.

Kent

Anyway, what happened with that upturn in union votes for the GOP you union guys blew smoke up my ass on?

Kent

I'm just as lost as you on that issue.

Erroneously, and don't include me in being lost.

Dolly Madison instead of Little Debbie pales in comparison.

Kent