What is your conclusions concerning which weapons were actually used in the Sandy Hook killings?

i have heard multiple media reports scattered across the channels.

i don't know if there's a difinitive answer yet or not. probably a lot of decisioning going on as we speak.

The only reports I have read say that a Sig and a Glock were what was used but that there was a Bushmaster AR 15 in the trunk of his car so now all the media is implying that the AR15 is the "murder weapon."

I would bet that with only three wounded it was a long gun of some kind.

Dink

I had seen an early report that a Saiga 12 shotgun was in the trunk unused.

same report indicated that each child was shot 3-7 times, so I would guess yes, the AR weapon was used and they did specifically identify it as a Bushmaster


But I don't know what to believe anymore. The misreporting on this event has alone become a news story unto itself.

If it were just two handguns, the fog will remain up until new gun legislation is passed.

AR on the victims. Pistol on the shooter.

Shotgun was in the vehicle.


Travis

the first reports from mass media was that two handguns were recovered on the scene, and a AR-15 spotted in the car (the back seat?).

later, as more information was released the story shifted. the final report will take a position, and report it to us through the main stream media.

What did the other shooter(s) carry?

On the afternoon of the 16th, 2 1/2 days after the shooting, the Connecticut State Police positively identified the shooter and the weapons recovered at the scene.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20751617

There were none. One shooter.


Travis

what is the back-story related to the male detained from the forest in the back of the school described as wearing camo-pants? he indicated no involvement in the shooting. was he a local hiker that found himself in the drag-net?

computer trashed, changing story, 2nd guy in the woods who has now disappeared, almost no survivors, AR conveniently appears on scene now as opposed to initial reports... Lanza dad to testify in the same LIBOR trial as the father of the freak in the movie theater shooting.

Nah. I'm calling BS.

Today is the day I officially don my tinfoil hat and break from the mainstream. I'm not buying it. Maybe the uncle of the shooter from the grassy knoll... somethings not right here.

No involvement.


Travis

JFC...


Travis

i would appreciate the msm requesting an interview from the camo-pants man. maybe Fox could do it, i don't know?

he was probably just a hiker or squirrel hunter, enjoying a wonderful day afield.

his interview, addressing how he was arrested, and dragged out of the woods by the police will be enlightening, once that story is broadcast.

i don't think he was armed, as the cameras pointed in his direction?

he was probably just another innocent one. surely the msm would pay for an interview in order to share with the public his experience, wouldn't they?

+1

hopefully, there's no conspiracy theories related to the Israili's and Arabs are there??

I have to believe the State Police captain and chief coroner called it right with their assertions it was the 223 round from a rifle that killed these kids.

The Sandy Hook story changes a few times everyday. It's the Benghazi at home story there is more CYA and agenda building going on there than you and I can throw rocks at.

You bunch of dickheads going to cry black helicopters while these parents bury their children?

It's not a conspiracy. It's a tragedy.


Travis

Travis trying to argue sense to the K.O.O.K.S.?!?! Did the world truly end and no one tell me?

Yes it is and they will use everyone of those kids lost lives to advance their lefty agenda.

in the interest of full and complete transparent disclosure, the captured individual from the back of the school needs to be interviewed upon National Tv, and his perspective shared with us.

what are they hiding, if anything??

further, i just can't believe there were any kind or type of Aramaic or Israilic conspiracy going on, is there??

GFY

Good call, Travis...

A lot of things in America need to, and will be be looked at, including mental health and security in schools.
Firearms laws will be examined as well... Not for the first time, and not for the last.

Time to take a deep breath, and get ready for what's coming... But first pray for the families who lost children and loved ones...

Not calling it any way but a survivor reported hiding under a

desk and seeing his legs and feet ,then he left and she heard

pops,pops,pops and more pops. In my experience pops sound like

nine mil pistols,and the AR rifle has about 60,000 psi and is

quite loud . I sold off my Bushmaster and L1A1 because they

had brakes on them annd were just too loud!

Something about her actual on scene account screems 9 mil pistol

Bob

Or tunnel vision and/or shock, which [bleep] with one's hearing, vision, time perception, etc.

I know that cop in the video threatened at one conference to arrest anyone who disagreed with the official version of the story, giving him zero credibility in my eyes.

And that is not black helicopter stuff - it is the reality of a police state and the evils of government, in particular governments that are collapsing.

American Spring!

I'd hate like hell to know I got ripped for "no class" comments by Travis, of all people.And............ to not have enough class to realize that it was deserved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XwetUgyND

Posted here without verification

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apwTd-B_MP8

Original reporting of eyewitness

The shooter is dead. There is no compelling interest in having to report the facts since there won't be any scrutiny of evidence or cross-examination in court. The media and most east-coast agencies can't be trusted to tell the facts.

No, he didn't say that. What he did say is quoted in this text.......which is amplified on the Connecticut State Police website.

Additionally, �anyone who harasses or threatens the victims, victims� families or witnesses of these horrific crimes, or who, in any manner interferes with the ongoing state or federal investigations will be referred for state and/or federal prosecution to the fullest extent permitted by law. Harassment not only includes in-person contact, but also contact via the internet, social media, and telephone.� Social media includes, but is not limited to, Facebook, Blogs, YouTube, Twitter, Pinterest, and MySpace. Harassment or interfering includes, but is not limited to, making claims of your involvement in the crime or making claims that hinder the advancement of the investigation.

The rifle was found in the car. This means they want you to believe he killed the kids, dropped the rifle off in the car, and then went BACK in to kill himself -- stealthily evading police both ways.

Nope. He used two handguns.

A fully automated assault rifle 30/30-06 with steel jacketed bullets.

Plus one.

This.

A shotgun was found in the car.....not "the rifle". Video of it being removed exists. Refer to discussion in this thread:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7207399/3

Thats right. This is 24hcf. Dissenting opinions need not apply. Certainly not in a thread which specifically questions the guns used, as opposed to, say, earlier threads which were more specific for mourning the families loss.

I am sure a lot of the parents from Newtown are on here reading 24hcf threads, getting offended.

Its a tragedy however it unfolded. Talking about it or not talking about it a week plus later isnt going to change that.

Why don't you go finish your mural of Elvis getting buttphucked by Kennedy while wearing a Hoffa mask?


Merry Christmas,
Travis

If the antis had the great misfortune of reading into the mindsets of some here,the 2A is in for some serious trouble.

I'll quit now while I think of the PC,polite way to write [bleep] whack jobs.

Exactly why I let my thread slide away into oblivion Bob. Some of the things written here and on it have just been painful to read. The paranoia is at a level that makes reasonable discussion impossible.

Will

Bingo!

Forget gold and silver, a fella could do well investing in Reynolds Wrap Tinfoil. I always knew there were some goofy SOB's here, but they're coming out of the woodwork lately!

Horse shixt. There is absolutely no disrespect to the victims or their families in immediately refuting errors, be they procedural or erroneous assumptions like "gun control is the answer". Your own post alludes to gun control being a good thing and it's not. It's exactly what got us to this point. It's funny how lots of it comes from the same area of the country. Pennsylvania not as much as points north and east, but still...

The dumbass politicians will look at a lot of things and improve nothing. Here is where gridlock is a good thing. Evil can only ultimately be overcome by Jesus Christ and the words of His Own book tell us that most will not accept Him. Evil can partially be overcome by meeting force with force and/or the willingness, ability and demonstration of same, to do so.

When you wring your hands and participate in "looking for answers" and "looking at guns", then you just enter into the game. The best thing to do is not play. The NRA made a bold stand for our rights and put the onus on anti-gunners. Overall, I don't believe in censorship of movies and video games such as the NRA alluded to, but it is good to throw the responsibility at that crowd and see how much of it sticks. Let them be in the hotseat awhile since most Hollyweirdos are flaming anti-gunners anyway.

Don't play the anti-gunner's game by letting fear and anger overrule common sense and objectivity. There has not been a gun control measure that has significantly reduced crime yet. To think that more of same will do anything differently is the height of stupidity and lunacy. Gun control causes more crime by removing all threat of defense and retaliation. Stand with us and don't get cut out of the herd thinking that you can save your favorite weapons by joining with the bad guys and going after a class that you don't own or like.

WTF are you babbling about?

The incident is being exploited by the left? Gee, no [bleep] schit. Maybe you should be building rockets instead of living in Kansas.

Doesn't make it a conspiracy. Doesn't mean the police are lying. Doesn't mean there was a second shooter. The AR was used. It wasn't in the car. The mystery man in camo had not one [bleep] thing to do with the POS that did the shooting.

How in the [bleep] do those facts make somebody pro-gun control? They don't. They are simply facts. And when all these conspiracy theorist opine about what they 'think', it makes gun owners look like schit. Matter of fact, I've never been so embarrassed by the gun owning community as I have since reading the absolute horse schit on this forum.




Travis

Any serious student of history understands that conspiracies of the most malevolent sort imaginable have not, among powerful men, been the exceptions, but rather the rule.

You confuse serious student of history with being so paranoid and delusional that you can't be taken seriously. And,along with a handful of football bats here and the crowd over at Daily Paul,you're not.

http://listverse.com/2007/08/21/top-10-conspiracy-theories/

In situations like the present one, state sponsored conspiracy is always a reasonable suspicion. Just as parents are always "persons of interest" in criminal investigations of missing children.

In situations like the present one, state sponsored conspiracy is always a reasonable suspicion
==============

No,it isn't. In fact,it's quite unreasonable and suggests a serious personality disorder.

The facts are that you are lacking in the area of reading comprehension and comprehension in general. First, I wasn't talking directly to you, although you could use some of what I said. Second, I didn't speak to any conspiracy aspects of this thing in the least. I was talking about holding ranks and not letting anti-gunners spook you into having conversations about banning assault weapons and such, something that John's post certainly seems to allude to. If you don't agree, that's cool. I don't agree with a couple of fat lesbos getting it on anywhere they can be seen, but that's not on topic, just like your post isn't on-topic as to what I said.

One thing you could take as directed at you is this constant yammering about how defending against attacks launched on ourselves and our guns is somehow disrespectful. There would be no talk of guns in the wake of this shooting had they not immediately been brought up as somehow guilty of it in and of themselves and no defense of gun owners would be needed had the anti's not immediately held us all collectively responsible. If there is any disrespect being shown here, it's by those who immediately and cynically exploited the tragedy for political purposes in attempting more gun control.

Your thread was retarded in its arrogance and crass stupidity. If you "let" it slide into oblivion, it was the best decision you've made in awhile.

LOL

It just is not possible for anyone to do more damage to you than you do to yourself.

He's the poster child for what libs and those against the 2nd Amendment picture in their minds when they think of gun owners, with paranoid and delusional only being the half of it.

I would like to hear, from the conspiracy folks, how an ENTIRE SET OF EMERGENCY RESPONDERS was so quickly, seamlessly, and unanimously co-opted into this conspiracy.

The first mention I heard of this was a link that MontanaCreekHunter put up. I followed the link. My response was Travis' response to this thread, to the letter:

JFC

Does it really matter? Are the weapons actually used the only weapons the libs want to ban in the emotional frenzy of this event?

I dont think it would work like that at all. However, it certainly wouldnt be too terribly difficult to coax, nudge, & encourage a very unstable mind into doing something very bad. Expecially if you did so on his medium (computer games- online etc) Some recommendations, prior assistance, and then sit back to let it unfold how it unfolds. A different take on the useful idiot concept.

FF isnt fiction, and its a freaking debacle. Benghazi wasnt jsut a lapse in judgement. This slaughter was far too convenient a disaster imo. Could be I'm wrong. I jsut wouldnt put it past someone(s) very bent on changing things as fast as possible.

There would be "no talk of guns"? You're joking.

And I have news for you. As citizens of this country EVERYONE is collectively responsible. Past, present, and future.

I find it amazing that the media is demanding strict gun controls and totally ignoring the facts that in a very high percentage of cases the perpetrators in these mass shootings are on mind altering or at least seriously strong drugs designed to control depression or other mental illness. but keep in mind the media and politicians know that pointing this fact out does not help advance the agenda of DISARMING the population and making them MORE DEPENDENT on government for protection, and LESS likely to be able to successfully resist any policy that is being force fed to the people against the populations wishes.
ARMED citizens VOTE on changes, UN-ARMED SURFS DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD!
According to ABC News, Adam Lanza, the alleged shooter, has been labeled as having "mental illness" and a "personality disorder." These are precisely the words typically heard in a person who is being "treated" with mind-altering psychiatric drugs.

One of the most common side effects of psychiatric drugs is violent outbursts and thoughts of suicide.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038353_gun_control_psychiatric_drugs_Adam_Lanza.html#ixzz2FtvSPhiO


1 -- Huntsville, Alabama � February 5, 2010: 15-year-old Hammad Memon shot and killed another Discover Middle School student Todd Brown. Memon had a history for being treated for ADHD and depression. He was taking the antidepressant Zoloft and �other drugs for the conditions.� He had been seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist.

2 -- Kauhajoki, Finland � September 23, 2008: 22-year-old culinary student Matti Saari shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine. He was also seeing a psychologist.


3 -- Dekalb, Illinois � February 14, 2008: 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amount of Xanax in his system. He had been seeing a psychiatrist.

4 -- Jokela, Finland � November 7, 2007: 18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School in southern Finland, then committed suicide.

5 -- Cleveland, Ohio � October 10, 2007: 14-year-old Asa Coon stormed through his school with a gun in each hand, shooting and wounding four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon had been placed on the antidepressant Trazodone.

6 -- Red Lake, Minnesota � March 2005: 16-year-old Jeff Weise, on Prozac, shot and killed his grandparents, then went to his school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation where he shot dead 7 students and a teacher, and wounded 7 before killing himself.

7 -- Greenbush, New York � February 2004: 16-year-old Jon Romano strolled into his high school in east Greenbush and opened fire with a shotgun. Special education teacher Michael Bennett was hit in the leg. Romano had been taking �medication for depression�. He had previously seen a psychiatrist.

8 -- Wahluke, Washington � April 10, 2001: Sixteen-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage. He had been taking the antidepressant Effexor.

9 -- El Cajon, California � March 22, 2001: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, on the antidepressants Celexa and Effexor, opened fire on his classmates, wounding three students and two teachers at Granite Hills High School. He had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.

10 -- Williamsport, Pennsylvania � March 7, 2001: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was taking the antidepressant Prozac when she shot at fellow students, wounding one.

11 -- Conyers, Georgia � May 20, 1999: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with the stimulant Ritalin when he opened fire on and wounded six of his classmates.

12 -- Columbine, Colorado � April 20, 1999: 18-year-old Eric Harris and his accomplice, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 26 others before killing themselves. Harris was on the antidepressant Luvox. Klebold�s medical records remain sealed. Both shooters had been in anger-management classes and had undergone counseling. Harris had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.

13 -- Notus, Idaho � April 16, 1999: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school, narrowly missing students. He was taking a prescribed SSRI antidepressant and Ritalin.

14 -- Springfield, Oregon � May 21, 1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 25. Kinkel had been taking the antidepressant Prozac. Kinkel had been attending �anger control classes� and was under the care of a psychologist.

heres a bunch of related info links

http://www.naturalnews.com/038353_gun_control_psychiatric_drugs_Adam_Lanza.html

http://www.examiner.com/article/men...-shootings-preventing-another-sandy-hook

http://mahwah.patch.com/blog_posts/the-link-between-anti-depressants-and-school-shootings

http://www.examiner.com/article/sch...ate-between-guns-and-mental-health-drugs

http://www.amazon.com/The-Shooting-Drugs-Generation-Internet/dp/0967307635

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ban-prozac-and-other-mass-murder-drugs-not-guns.html

http://www.cchrflorida.org/blog/antidepressants-are-a-prescription-for-mass-shootings/

http://www.examiner.com/article/mass-shootings-and-drugs-political-correctness-vs-reality

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/pharmagunddon-school-shooters-and-psych-meds.html

I think that's why Lanza shot his mother. She discovered her retard son was a government operative working in cahoots with the state of Connecticut,the FBI and the coroner's office to slaughter school children in a massive conspiratorial effort to repeal the 2nd Amendment. She learned the hard way you just can't ground those government conspiracy,covert-ops guys.

It's all plausible. Don't know what got in to me.

IMO that is extremely improbable

that explanation makes more sense than believing the Arabs and Israelis are somehow involved?

==============

Really? I thought I was being reasonable considering the facts and ,you know, government being government and all.

What weapons the maniac used is a red herring. The question is whether Sandy Hook could have been prevented.

Never forget that a maniac who has committed himself to dying is extremely dangerous.

Laws do not prevent crimes but provide for the punishment of those who commit crimes.

I doubt the situation could have been prevented but feel that it could have been stopped sooner than it was by allowing civilians to have weapons at school the way they once did.

Evidently the mother was trying to commit her son but didn't do it fast enough.

Notropis,

I agree. But we cannot forget that had Sandy Hook been an impregnable fortress, the maniac would have almost assuredly found a secondary target. Same carnage, different victims...

That State Trooper Boss who held the press conference looks like a younger George Soros.

But did the MSM report on the resemblance? Of course not.

Quite to the contrary, your inclination is one stinking of historical ignorance, not to mention general naivete.

Damn, your post literally oozes dumbassery. Beyond hope. You're a chick, right? I get it now. "GrandView" means you're like proud of your 4XL sized asss.

+1

No, they didn't.

However, several people thought the medical examiner, Carver, resembled John Goodman. If that's relevant....

State-sponsored conspiracy in the service of the lowest and most criminal sorts of ends is the historical norm, not the exception. An understanding of this fundamental reality was the Founders' core motivation for establishing our governmental system of checks, balances, decentralization, and strict limits on state power. If you disagree, then you disagree with the fundamental basis for the system established by our Founders.

LOL

You're spiraling into irrelevance. Surely you must know that.

Overall, great post. Could I speak to the other side of it...somewhat? I've been critical of the lack of facilities ushered in by politicians greedy to capitalize on what amounts to Psychiatrists claims that they can medicate patients into sanity. I think the criticism is worthwhile but at the same time, most of the facilities were places where very bad things occurred. When you think about it, the rise of Psychotropic medication has allowed a lot of folks to lead semi-normal lives walking around like the rest of us, where before their advent, commitment was probably the best option.

That said, your point about pschiatric drugs...and other drugs, having the opposite or near-opposite effect they are supposed to, is well-taken. And it also seems like sometimes the patient is not at fault. Many times the patients decide to self-prescribe and decrease or quit taking meds, but sometimes it seems like a med can be working fine and then just quit or have a different effect. Strange and concerning.

At any rate, this is the conversation that should occur as to mental health, not some sort of test which will, no doubt, throw out anybody who wants to own a gun as "crazy" given the overall liberal bent of the profession.

I don't disagree with that.

I do disagree with the perpetual habit of inventing "facts" to support the contention of such conspiracies.

Which was the theme of the thread.

"Irrelevance" describes both your post and opinions here. Please go out and play, but be sure to ask mommy for permission first. The big folks have real topics to discuss here and your insistence on inanities is a sore distraction.

Well said. Some folks, however, are pathologically naive with regard to, and trusting of, the state. Seems like we have a lot of that sort right here at the Fire. This is to be expected, however, since it requires a life long study of history and human nature in the context of power to undue the brainwashing we all systematically receive throughout our formative years. Americans tend to be thoroughly brainwashed in this way.

Sorry to break this to you..........you're not one of the "big folks".

You suffering withdrawal from being taken off my ignore list?

Just trying to get back on it?

On what basis did someone make this connection? Seems rather "out of the blue" to me.

Now that is where the BS in question lays I'm not responsible for what some other a-hole does and niether is my gun. I am resposible for me.
You're going to need to spread it a little thicker because you're not getting full coverage with that BS.

Then we have that in common, as I too oppose the invention of "facts" in support of any position whatsoever.

is what i'm hearing too, the lame stream media has latched onto that narrative like pitbull, too feed the "assult weapons ban" loonies.

Do people really think that the MSM doesn't lie?

I have witnessed poor reporting, misleading reporting, and flat out lies by the media on several occasions. Not to mention the fact that they continually only report what goes along with their agenda.

To think that, in a situation such as Sandy Hook, the media turns over a new leaf and decides that they are going to be honest in their reporting is beyond stupid.

Does that mean that it is a Government conspiracy? I don't think so, but if no one ever questions their lies there is not much point in them telling the truth. I'd say that at this point the populace is so trusting in the media that they could report what ever they wanted to regardless of facts, and the people who questioned them would be called crazy kooks, etc...

It is actually very scary that we have reached this point IMO.

And the MSM has long been the propaganda arm of the state.

Right again!

The truth of the matter is that the MSM and the leftist politicians were calling for an AWB when it was still being reported that he used a handgun to do these killing.

Then you're hearing wrong. It was the "lame stream media" that erroneously reported the Bushmaster was in the trunk of the car.

Which they were corrected by the State Patrol in the following briefing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20751617

Ugh.

How about this. A deranged 20-year-old used either an eeeevil Glock or an eeeevil Bushmaster assault rifle (sic) to massacre a bunch of 6 and 7 year old children at an elementary school?

We all knew this day would come to pass. Just because it has, and just because it hands the other side the perfect club to beat on us with, is no reason to get kooky.

Know what? More things like this will come to pass. We can argue cause & effect & blame & solutions, but is anyone going to argue that the pressure on the citizenry as a whole will only be going up? God knows, we have uncountable numbers of very potent weapons literally everywhere.

When these things do happen, there's no conspiracy required to explain them.

We are at a very tenuous moment. If someone, God forbid, goes batsh!t and kills a bunch of people in the next few weeks, the political pressure will be impossible for even 2nd supporters to bear. Laws will change. Rights will be infringed.

Just to head off any notion that I oppose these weapons, I currently own a Bushmaster AR and a Glock. Both are loaded. Both are secured. Honestly if we want to have a proactive forward thinking conversation here, we should be debating ways to try to greatly increase the percentage of guns that are properly secured.

Where did I say that a conspiracy is required? I've merely stated that conspiracy is one of many possibilities, just as criminal investigators will, quite reasonably, include the parents in their investigation of a missing child, based exclusively on the history of similar past investigations.

Good point.

I'm not attacking you.

I am attacking this:

"I believe our GOVERNMENT shot those kids and teachers and used Adam Lanza and his family to pull it off.� They might have killed two birds with one stone.� One:� If these men are involved in the LIBOR scandal, they can manipulate their testimony.� Two:� they get gun control.� How�very, very clever and efficient of them,�right? ���I hate to say it.� I hate to put myself �out there� with this because I KNOW how I will be attacked.� But I don�t do this for anyone�s approval.� I do it to help the American People."

http://shortlittlerebel.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/urgent-update-on-connecticut-shooting/

the only two groups left that hasn't been interwoven in the Story are the Saudi Arabian Palace Police and the Israeli Mossad.

i think the Palace Police usually use knives, swords and such. the Mossad is more diverse in terms of their usage of weaponry.

i didnt see that report....

...no matter, they "the left" wont be happy untill there is a complete repeal of the 2nd amendment, and they don't mind one bit using this tragedy to do it.

Unless I see him carrying it on the schools closed circuit TV. I'm not believing much of anything coming out of any media or government agency. Governments lie too often to push the agenda here in America and around the world.

Even if its so it isn't a good reason to start striking down the constitution with the ass Hole in the White House right now.

I wonder if anybody remembers back about 1969 when the ACLU was going to court to empty the mental hospitals because of the patients' civil rights being overlooked. Made it a lot harder to put a psychotic person into some controlled environment. Maybe the ACLU is responsible for all this mass murder.

oh, they contributed. that's pretty much a military certainty.

Jeff_O and TRH are more of a threat to our liberties than Lanza. Jeff_O helped put the Kenyan in the White House and TRH is the worst kind of kook, and it's flat out concerning he's allowed to be around children.

I'd argue that Republican incompetence put Obama in the white house the first time. But whatever. Truth is, you are my b!tch, electorally speaking. You want something done, or not done, you need the Middle same as the Left does.

So buck up, trooper, and be nice to me!

Spin it however you want Obama voter.

Man.... ya [bleep] one goat.....

It's not that you did that.....it's that you picked the ugliest one in the whole bunch...

We're getting sidetracked, and it's my turn to drive anyway.

Really did incompetence vote. NO. Dump F's like you voted.

No, incompetence had the White House for 8 years, along with both houses of Congress for a while there, and utterly f*cked it up.

Gotta go. Snowy pass in my immediate future.

Wow. You're pro-gun. So am I. I never said anything about defending the 2nd Amendment. I said something about morons. I also oppose convicted felons not being allowed to own firearms. How's that for constitutional?

I'm sick of the conspiracy theorists being involved in these conversations. If you want to stand by them, have at it.


Travis

Jeff,

GFY.

Nothing further.


Travis

Wow. Just [bleep]' wow.

Wrong. The club was crafted in the late nineties. The hand to wield it was provided when you voted against the 2nd in 2008. The "other side" is you.

Geeff you're such a tard the turds had the house and the senate the last two years of GWB's years in office? But then facts never did mean much to you.

Get that snow out of the crack in your ass and think for once.

Uh, loaning money without any sufficient collateral and the demarcation of credit lending sure helped, ahem, real estate agents. It also handed Bush an economic collapse.

You ever sell anything to folks you knew couldn't afford it?

Of course not....it was all "Republican incompetence"....

I've also mentioned numerous times that voting is not a bloodless act that "middle ground" thinkers perch upon.....

We could only be so fortunate that they haven't "acted"...

I might be alone in my summation, but the "propensity to legislate" has never achieved applause from me....

I don't find anything to disagree with Jeffobama, this time. We had a liberal-rockefeller republicrat that never met a govmint program he didn't think he could "improve", and a do-nothing republicrat congress. Now Jeff and surely differ on our reasons for thinking they were [bleep] up, but [bleep] up they were.

So you voted for Obama?

The most dangerous weapon used at Sandy Hook was the mind of a mad man. That IS the most prominent FACT and needs to be kept front and center at all times....

So who can answer the original question accurately?

The Murderer, and he ain't real talkative right now.