How many ar's can I purchase without red flags and the ATF at my door?

Been a while with work, business and family since I've been a regular on the 'fire, so if this is a much discussed topic, my apologies.

I just got a decent deal on an Oracle .308, and now I see a bunch of SMOKIN' deals on a lot of others. Unfortunately a phenomenal investment opportunity solely due to legislation.

I'd much rather buy a bunch and lose my shirt at current prices due to legislators GETTING ON BOARD WITH THE CONSTITUTION and the prices resuming normalcy... but sadly, I just don't see that happening.

So my question is in the subject line. I could reasonably purchase about 7 this minute. I'm just a fearin' the possible ramifications of our duly appointed legislative officials labeling me whatever term of the day it requires to imprison me. So if anyone is in the know on the subject, I've heard not more than 1 per day, but I also worry about that number.

doesn't matter really, if they want em in the end, they'll track down the 4473s and follow the trail.... 1 or 10....

BTW I would not buy more than one at these prices and thats only if you didn't have one before.

At least IMHO buying more than one right now is not a smart investment.

"how many without red flags?"

I don't thnk it really matters.
If some g man shows up to do anything more than congratulate you, report how proud he is of you and the patriotism and support of 2A you and he share, then you know he's not on America's side.

Enemies expose themselves.
And usually with very little prompting.

rost495, honestly I've never even liked AR's. I'm a bolt action guy from the start. But these are pre-crap-hit-the-fan prices and the investment is sound in any situation, ie, I could at least get my money back as they would be considered "normal" prices even if the market returned to sanity.

I don't know how your state does NICS checks, but if it is like Ohio, the dealer calls it in directly to the FBI.
The only question asked about the item being purchased is "long gun or handgun?" No make, model, or serial number is given.
I don't believe there is a limit to how many long guns you can buy in a given period, but more than one handgun in a 5 day period raises flags.
Even with long guns, I would be leery that a lot of purchases in a short period may trigger some kind of alert.

Myron

Buy private and stock up . They can't track them all down.

They dont know it will be an AR. A friend of mine went full retard and joined the panic buying morons. After the first two he has been put on delayed status for all purchases after. No big deal.

With long guns,it's not the number you buy,I've bought 6 long guns in a day (Mauser/Winchesters)however,it's what you are doing with them?
If thought of "flipping" them comes to mind,then selling for profit will cause an Alert somewhere,sometime. ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years..they were also trying to tie him with some smuggling charges,but I guess they didn't connect on that one and took the five in the big house...

Unless things have changed lately.No mention of how many rifles you are buying.Just a check to see if you can buy one.

Originally Posted by CAPITALIST

Been a while with work, business and family since I've been a regular on the 'fire, so if this is a much discussed topic, my apologies.

I just got a decent deal on an Oracle .308, and now I see a bunch of SMOKIN' deals on a lot of others. Unfortunately a phenomenal investment opportunity solely due to legislation.

I'd much rather buy a bunch and lose my shirt at current prices due to legislators GETTING ON BOARD WITH THE CONSTITUTION and the prices resuming normalcy... but sadly, I just don't see that happening.

So my question is in the subject line. I could reasonably purchase about 7 this minute. I'm just a fearin' the possible ramifications of our duly appointed legislative officials labeling me whatever term of the day it requires to imprison me. So if anyone is in the know on the subject, I've heard not more than 1 per day, but I also worry about that number.

If you buy more than one per week, the dealer has to do a more extensive bit of paperwork, and you go in a database.

every gun you buy with a 4473 involved puts you in someone's data base.
I don't think there is much chance of the ATF knocking on your door though. At least, not yet.

If you buy more than one on the same day, and called in on the same 4473, does the dealer tell them it is a multiple purchase?
I don't remember any mention of quantity on a long gun call-in.

Myron

Originally Posted by rifle

If thought of "flipping" them comes to mind,then selling for profit will cause an Alert somewhere,sometime. ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years...

For violation of what law? Flipping homes doesn't make you a realtor. ;-)

I guess it goes back to the question about what is the magic number that makes you a "dealer"?

Originally Posted by rifle

With long guns,it's not the number you buy,I've bought 6 long guns in a day (Mauser/Winchesters)however,it's what you are doing with them?
If thought of "flipping" them comes to mind,then selling for profit will cause an Alert somewhere,sometime. ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years..they were also trying to tie him with some smuggling charges,but I guess they didn't connect on that one and took the five in the big house...

And this is what we're supposed to call "law enforcement".

New legalities do not supersede or supplant standing laws. Only in the convoluted system of legalities where too big for their britches commie/[bleep]/junkies rule are such fictions imagined as reality.

Throughout history legalities come and go like tides taking with them tyrants who grew themselves up and were exterminated for their efforts.

We live in a world of would-be tyrants.

That fellow must have broke one of their "laws".

These people are looters, crooks of the highest order.
They are usurpers who've abandoned their identity and their true authority to play a minor role in the belly of a beast.
They stand in absolute defiance of everything worht having in life, everything worth living for.

They think themselves gods among men. And those of us they imagine their lessors, fodder for their entertainment, mere animals to be ruled over.

Death is too good for them...
but it's a necessary stop along their journey...
strait to hell.

It's time for a repost of this little illustration.

Quote

Character Analysis

Dr. Ferris is a member, along with Wesley and James, of what we like to call the trio of evil. While James embodies evil business and Wesley evil politics, Ferris is here to represent evil science. Among the three of them, we get a good idea of the looters' ideology, the types of people in power, and the impact they have on national life.

In terms of influence, Ferris might the most powerful of the three. He's also one of the most outspokenly cynical of the looters. He often cuts through all the ideological rhetoric and gets to the heart of the matter: he has great contempt for people and is basically in it for power. Oddly enough, one of his most revealing scenes occurs not with his fellow looters but with his nemesis Hank Rearden:

"We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them...you create a nation of lawbreakers � and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden."

This is probably the best statement of the looters' government system in the entire novel. Ferris comes right out and says exactly what the looters are doing and what they hope to achieve: power. What's interesting is Ferris's tone here. He speaks to Hank in this scene as if Hank is a total idiot who is hopelessly behind the times. Ferris actually relishes this type of criminal system and doesn't understand why a "smart" man like Hank won't get with the program.

Quote

For violation of what law? Flipping homes doesn't make you a realtor. ;-)

In Arkansas if you sell more than a certain number of cars in a year, you are a dealer and have to have dealer tags. I don't remember the number but it seems to me it was pretty low. I can't remember much about it but when it passed I thought WTH. miles

Originally Posted by conrad101st

Originally Posted by rifle

If thought of "flipping" them comes to mind,then selling for profit will cause an Alert somewhere,sometime. ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years...

For violation of what law? Flipping homes doesn't make you a realtor. ;-)

I guess it goes back to the question about what is the magic number that makes you a "dealer"?

They charged him with selling without a license,he reportedly picked up 13-14 AK's in about 10 days time at one shop at one time.He had bought them from a distributor and had several dealers doing transfers for him.I think the total was well over 30,spread out over a couple of dealers in NC and SC.They really think he was shipping out of the country

Originally Posted by conrad101st

Originally Posted by rifle

If thought of "flipping" them comes to mind,then selling for profit will cause an Alert somewhere,sometime. ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years...

For violation of what law? Flipping homes doesn't make you a realtor. ;-)

I guess it goes back to the question about what is the magic number that makes you a "dealer"?

Nobody's business but mine.

I remember my uncle getting a visit from some state of Nebraska JBT wanna-be's when I was a little kid. They pulled up in their sedan to inform him, a young man in high school, that if he rebuilt and sold one more car he'd have to purchase an authentic dealer's license (license = permission) from the state.

I asked "did ya tell 'em to fugg off?"

He laughed and said "I just won't be doing any more of their "required" paperwork."

And that was the end of that.

Okay, a follow up question, then; can I purchase these guns in the name of my business? (my company is in, ironically, real estate, so I don't purchase too many homes in my name and be labelled a "broker") These are definitely being purchased solely for the investment purposes much like I would invest in gold.

Can a company own guns?

ps

My parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, and everyone else agreed.

And like I say, that was the end of that.
He fixed up and resold a BUNCH of cars!

Originally Posted by CAPITALIST

Okay, a follow up question, then; can I purchase these guns in the name of my business? (my company is in, ironically, real estate, so I don't purchase too many homes in my name and be labelled a "broker") These are definitely being purchased solely for the investment purposes much like I would invest in gold.

Can a company own guns?

guns are like any other piece of property.

Best place it can be is in a place it owns itself and doesn't know you from Adam.

Originally Posted by rifle

ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years..they were also trying to tie him with some smuggling charges,but I guess they didn't connect on that one and took the five in the big house...

What were the charges? Selling a privately owned rifle is very legal.

They charged him with selling without a license,he reportedly picked up 13-14 AK's in about 10 days time at one shop at one time.He had bought them from a distributor and had several dealers doing transfers for him.I think the total was well over 30,spread out over a couple of dealers in NC and SC.They really think he was shipping out of the country

Nothing illegal there.

They really think he was shipping out of the country

He was imprisoned for what they "think"?

A "license" is a legal binding tax set up by Federal,state or local governments,you can always choose how to carry on your business,until you get caught.It's there to protect people who have made an investment and run a legitament company.

This young man is now a Felon with a record and I'm guessing an experience from prison he'll never forget...

Originally Posted by GeoW

Originally Posted by rifle

ATF just got a guy in my town selling AK's out of this trunk and he's gone for 5 years..they were also trying to tie him with some smuggling charges,but I guess they didn't connect on that one and took the five in the big house...

What were the charges? Selling a privately owned rifle is very legal.

They charged him with selling without a license,he reportedly picked up 13-14 AK's in about 10 days time at one shop at one time.He had bought them from a distributor and had several dealers doing transfers for him.I think the total was well over 30,spread out over a couple of dealers in NC and SC.They really think he was shipping out of the country

Nothing illegal there.

They really think he was shipping out of the country

He was imprisoned for what they "think"?

dude,I'm reciting what was in the newspaper,a lot of talk around town about it.I'm sure there's more to the story than what was printed.

Not my style... sorry.

Whats the big deal? Put 2 in your name, 2 in your wifes name, 1 in your brothers name ect ect. But first, quit telling the whole world about it.

Do private sales and skip the dealers, no one os none the wiser.

Try this...best I could get out of their archives... chief..

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/28/3814375/charlotte-gun-trafficking-case.html

Doug Miller and Gary L. Wright
dmiller@charlotteobserver.

Don Ingram, store manager of Carolina Sporting Arms, and others at the store alerted federal agents to a customer who bought suspicious quantities of assault rifles. JOHN D. SIMMONS - [email protected]
Buy Photo | Store

What happened to Michael Beas illustrates how current gun laws worked well � or how flawed they really are.

For six months last year, Beas bought dozens of assault weapons and sold them without a license at gun shows in Georgia and the Carolinas, court records show. He sold parts for 12 .50-caliber weapons in a hotel parking lot off Interstate 85 in Charlotte. He frequently traveled to Bolivia, a nation with a history of gun trafficking.

But authorities captured Beas, Beas has agreed to plead guilty to dealing firearms without a license, a crime punishable by up to five years in prison. He is scheduled to enter his plea on Wednesday in federal court in Charlotte.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ng-case.html#disqus_thread#storylink=cpy

Your dealer will file an ATF form 3310.12

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/080911-qa-multiple-rifles.pdf

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-12.pdf

"Your dealer will file an ATF form 3310.12"

Why?

Those forms are specifically for dealers in four Southern border states... MI is not one of them...

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

"Your dealer will file an ATF form 3310.12"

Why?

Those forms are specifically for dealers in four Southern border states... MI is not one of them...

I didn't catch that, sorry. Of course they won't be doing that in the few states in the very near future. Can't really justify that. To make it fair they will do it in all states. I'd say within the next 12 months.

But authorities captured Beas, 33, only after employees at a Charlotte gun store grew suspicious of his large AK-47 purchases and voluntarily tipped off federal agents.

�There�s really nothing wrong with buying a lot of guns,� said Carolina Sporting Arms salesman Phil Reynolds. �We just thought it was very strange to have that many guns of that type.�

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...-gun-trafficking-case.html#storylink=cpy

Sounds like people to avoid. The ones that snitch to the Feds

Originally Posted by smithwr

Whats the big deal? Put 2 in your name, 2 in your wifes name, 1 in your brothers name ect ect. But first, quit telling the whole world about it.

Since I haven't actually DONE anything, there's nothing to tell the world about. I'm just here on the 'fire putting up hypotheticals of a sound investment. But if I DID choose to follow through, the advice from here could be quite useful... including putting one in each of my family member's names.

Originally Posted by wildbill59

But authorities captured Beas, 33, only after employees at a Charlotte gun store grew suspicious of his large AK-47 purchases and voluntarily tipped off federal agents.

�There�s really nothing wrong with buying a lot of guns,� said Carolina Sporting Arms salesman Phil Reynolds. �We just thought it was very strange to have that many guns of that type.�

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...-gun-trafficking-case.html#storylink=cpy

Sounds like people to avoid. The ones that snitch to the Feds

See something say something.

This could be called straw purchasing. And you can bet, since these posts, they already know who you are and where you live. Leave the gun dealing to gun dealers.

i'd buy em' and not give it another thought. i bought 7 ruger lcp's to give a Christmas presents and haven't had a visit yet. no atf folks are going to visit at this point. however, if by some extreme chance any legislation gets passed making the purchase of more than one or two in a given amount of time illegal, then a visit might be possible. i wouldn't worry.

Know a guy who recently was requested to come to a office 150 miles from where he lived for an interview concerning his purchase of thirty cases of 223 on his credit card.He seemed to thing the alert somehow was made through the credit card co. I was amazed that he submitted to their request to make the trip. Wooled him around and told him not to be re-selling it.Think the ammo seller might have tipped them? Makes you wonder. GW

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purchase of thirty cases of 223

Since this guy probably isn't a reloader I hope you are being a great friend and scavenging his brass.

Originally Posted by kennyd

This could be called straw purchasing. And you can bet, since these posts, they already know who you are and where you live. Leave the gun dealing to gun dealers.

Nope......what the original poster asked about is NOT a straw purchase.......look up the legal definition.......

Originally Posted by oldtimer303

Know a guy who recently was requested to come to a office 150 miles from where he lived for an interview concerning his purchase of thirty cases of 223 on his credit card.He seemed to thing the alert somehow was made through the credit card co. I was amazed that he submitted to their request to make the trip. Wooled him around and told him not to be re-selling it.Think the ammo seller might have tipped them? Makes you wonder. GW

I'd tell em to [bleep] themselves.. there isn't a law anywhere that I know of, that says you can't buy X amount of ammo and then if desired sell it again. Its not, at this time, regulated to taht extent.

Want to ask? Come on by...

More to this story too I"d bet.

Originally Posted by bea175

Buy private and stock up . They can't track them all down.

^^this^^

If you are patient, make a deal on the 6 or 7 AR-15s with the dealer. Go ahead and pay for them, or most of them. Take 2 home with you and put the rest on lay-away. You only fill out form 4473 when you take possession, so if you go back in 2 months and take two more home, etc, there should be no extra paperwork.

Ask the dealer what paperwork he has to file on multiple long gun purchases. It's been a long time wince I ran a gun store, but I don't recall anything back then.

Originally Posted by rost495

Originally Posted by oldtimer303

Know a guy who recently was requested to come to a office 150 miles from where he lived for an interview concerning his purchase of thirty cases of 223 on his credit card.He seemed to thing the alert somehow was made through the credit card co. I was amazed that he submitted to their request to make the trip. Wooled him around and told him not to be re-selling it.Think the ammo seller might have tipped them? Makes you wonder. GW

I'd tell em to [bleep] themselves.. there isn't a law anywhere that I know of, that says you can't buy X amount of ammo and then if desired sell it again. Its not, at this time, regulated to taht extent.

Want to ask? Come on by...

More to this story too I"d bet.

Three or four people were splitting the ammo and got a better price by combining their order. Used his credit card for the transaction. Guy is in his mid seventies and and has no issues to my knowledge. Type of guy that would drive 150 miles to avoid a confrontation. I would have also suggested they make the drive themselves. GW

If the OP isn't flipping the AR's I'd just go ahead and buy them. So what if they come asking questions.A look straight in the eyes and the truth usually makes for short sessions.