I've got a 2001 Ford Explorer, 5.0 ltr V-8, AWD with 175k on it. It's been a great car. Never done anything major...nothing. Brakes, occasional wheel bearing, regular service, that's it. But with its age and mileage, I figure I've got most of the good miles out of it. Now I'm considering a 4 Runner. I refuse to pay car payments, but laying out 34k for a new(2013) one...well, let's just say "no".
So, my questions:
*Considering I will drive it 10 plus years, or until it is otherwise mostly used up, what is the highest mileage you would consider if purchasing used? *I'm kinda figuring 200k mileage without any major rebuilding/repairs. Is this a reasonable expectation or am I being overly optimistic?
*Considering 2008 or later model, 4.0 ltr V-6, 4WD
One other thing, are there any bad models or motors or other things that I should be aware of and avoid?
I have a 2012 SR5 W/bells & whistles that I gave 38K for.. Best move I've made for a while. I love it. I have owned two other Toyotas, both went way over 300K. Both are still running, gave them to my children and grandkids. Personally I could go as high as 150K as long as it was not used for stump jumping. They do hold their value.
There is slowly growing evidence that some 4.0L Toyotas are turning up with head gasket issues at just over 100k miles.
I have a 2006 4Runner that may have this problem right now. It is not catastrophic failure, but will worsen over time and require repair. Average cost for the repair is running right about $3,000 for those who take it to a shop.
Do an Internet search for terms such as "Toyota 4.0L head gasket", "1GR-FE head gasket", etc., and you will find cases. I'm not sure whether the problem will grow as more of these motors rack up miles, but it's not a good sign.
Otherwise, the vehicle has been a beast. The 4.7L V-8 in the 4th Generation 4Runner is one of the better motors available anywhere.
I'd get an FJ Cruiser. That is a REAL 4WD. 4 rnrs have been neutered
I respectfully disagree, especially when compared with anything else in their class and price range.
4Runners have fully-boxed body on frame construction, have a solid rear axle, have a low range transfer case, factory skid plates, ATRAC II+ traction control at all four wheels that uses the ABS system to brake wheels without traction (better than LSD), available rear locker in the Trail Edition, Downhill Descent Control, front differential and transmission breathers (rear diff easily modded), water fording capability approaching 30", real spare tire, etc. I'm probably forgetting some things.
In addition, 4Runners are well supported with aftermarket parts that make it even better, such as ARB bumpers and air lockers (along with other brands), rock sliders, upgraded skid protection, snorkel kits, suspension lifts, custom fabricated front receiver hitches, etc.
Granted, its size, angles of approach/departure, independent front suspension, etc. detract from its off-road ability, but in many other respects it is still a Real 4WD.
My wife and I have a 2006 v6 4 Runner with 97k on it. Only problem with it so far was the radiator developed a leak around 70k and we had it replaced under warranty. Its been a great vehicle and would buy another tomorrow if I wasnt going to drive the wheels off of this one.
I will agree though, the v8 was the best motor in this model and when it was stuffed into a sport package it was even better. The suspension is noticeably better in the sport model compared to the SR5. I sold them for 7 yrs and drove all of them.
I'd get an FJ Cruiser. That is a REAL 4WD. 4 rnrs have been neutered
I respectfully disagree, especially when compared with anything else in their class and price range.
4Runners have fully-boxed body on frame construction, have a solid rear axle, have a low range transfer case, factory skid plates, ATRAC II+ traction control at all four wheels that uses the ABS system to brake wheels without traction (better than LSD), available rear locker in the Trail Edition, Downhill Descent Control, front differential and transmission breathers (rear diff easily modded), water fording capability approaching 30", real spare tire, etc. I'm probably forgetting some things.
In addition, 4Runners are well supported with aftermarket parts that make it even better, such as ARB bumpers and air lockers (along with other brands), rock sliders, upgraded skid protection, snorkel kits, suspension lifts, custom fabricated front receiver hitches, etc.
Granted, its size, angles of approach/departure, independent front suspension, etc. detract from its off-road ability, but in many other respects it is still a Real 4WD.
A real nasty black ice slide (not the first), head-on into a rock wall, back across the 2 lane road upside down roll-over convinced me of the 4-rnr's structural integrity.. Good thing the spare tire and tool box blew out thru the rear window instead of forward...
When I came to after a few seconds of out, I reached over (the wife was driving) and shut the engine off, popped the seat belt, and exited the rear window (doors jammed), then helped the wife and two young boys out the same way. I had a slight cut above my right eye where my head apparently hit the window. That was the only injury.
Watching the tires still spinning after exiting, my youngest then about 5, and a covert seat-belt unfastener until we started fining him (he still likes money!) said "Now I know why we wear seat belts".
I loved that rig, but they are short and narrow wheel-based, and a bit top heavy.
Moved up to a one ton quad cab Chevy, and now a Ram (Still have the 90 Chevy for hauling wood, stone, gravel, etc - it's beat all to hell, but runs good - terrible milage.
But with its age and mileage, I figure I've got most of the good miles out of it.
I'm of the opinion that the devil you know, is better than the one you don't. Your Explorer will let you know when you've gotten the good miles out of it.
I traded away a 2001 Yukon XL with 186K on it, for a 2007 with 42K. I've been kicking myself ever since, as I have yet to get many "good miles" out of the newer one.
can't address all the 4Runners in the world, but my 1988 has over 300K, and is still running strong. The items I have mainly replaced recently, were some front end components, radiator, O2 Sensor, and some electrical things. Replacing the combination switch in the steering column next week. Other than that, normal maintenance has been enough. You have to repack the hubs, do brake changes and that sort of thing on all vehicles.
I have two 3rd generation 4-runners. A '97 that just turned 267,200 miles. Never need to add any oil! A 2001 that has almost 180,000 miles. Also never need to add oil!
Go here to find out everything you need to know about models:
You might want to look at the math of owning new vs used. I did a KBB search of 4-Runners available in my area. Only two 2008's with 4X4 within 75 miles of home and the best deal was $18,000 with just under 100,000 miles. I consider about 15 years and 300,000 miles as far as I want to push one without major restoration. That is a 6 year old truck, (the 2014's are already out) so you should get 9 more years out of it. Breaks down to $2000/year.
The best price on a new vehicle I found was $33,000. If you drive it 15 years it breaks down to $2200/year. Some new versions were as much as $40K. Going that route would be get you up to 2660/year of ownership.
In this case used comes out a little cheaper, but not that much. If you buy new you have at least the 1st 3 years covered by warranty. If you get a lemon you have 3 years to get it fixed, or trade it before you spend a dime. Buying used is a roll of the dice. Most are fine, but you could end up with major repairs on your dime within months, even weeks.
It's the same reason there's not reports of blown head gasket's on the FJ cruiser forums. There's a troll here who registers many aliases that is responsible for many of the blown head gasket claims. I'm not saying there hasn't ever been a blown head gasket on a 1gr-fe because if it overheats it certainly can warp the head or something. But the vast majority of the claims here are done by this troll.
A few of his usernames have been banned because he can't control himself. He's got this thing where he thinks the 2uz engine is the best engine ever built and he has to find ways to make the 1gr seem like an inferior engine. He's obviously got some kind of personal issues and uses this board as a way to act out. Here are some of his banned usernames:
Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: eskimochaos Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: eskim0chaos Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: PrepareYourAnus Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: V8 Brah Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: ClockWork Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: Lexus LX Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: 2UZ
Those are just the ones that I remember off hand. There are no doubt more. And, like I said, I'm quite sure he's responsible for the majority of these blown head gasket reports. There's a pattern to most of the reports - they're almost always a poster with just a few posts under they're belt and then there's a head gasket failure. Again, some of them may be legit but I bet this loser is behind most of them.
That is the same thing I kept running into, particularly with dealers--used ones ain't cheap. Interest rates are. The dealer prices on used 4Runners varied a lot--from reasonable to obscene.
I shopped for a couple years and picked up a 2012 Trail from an individual to replace my 2006. Trails come with KDSS as a feature and it removes the top heavy handling from the equation.
Salt exposure is a problem here in Michigan and in other salting states. Michigan not only salts the roads in the winter but dumps a lot of salt brine out of old oil wells on gravel roads in the summer to keep the dust down. Go figure...a water state.
It is tough on car bodies, so keep it in mind where your used Yota came from.
I'd get an FJ Cruiser. That is a REAL 4WD. 4 rnrs have been neutered
I've had both the regular 4Runner (2005 Limited) a FJ Cruiser (2008) and now a 2011 4Runner Trail edition.
Daughter has the 2005 with 120,000 on it now. Outside of normal maintenance she has replaced the shocks and just recently a fluid input line in the trans which was causing shifting problems. A $500. repair. That vehicle will go most places any of us would want to take it.
Liked the FJ, but the back seat wouldn't fold down flat which was a pain with Dog kennels when you had to move them forward. Supposedly changed on recent models. Lots of blind spots and you had to be careful changing lanes. Had all the 4wd bells and whistles. Use them on a regular basis-should say hard core applications-and I doubt you will get high milage without some major repairs. It costs money to be a rock crawler. Bought it with 30,000 on the odometer and sold it with 58,000. Lost $1,500 dollars in the exchange and thought I did just fine. Regular maintenance and nothing else.
The current TE has all the 4WD capabilities of the FJ with the exception of the longer WB. However, it rides a little better on the highway. No major blind spots, more room on the inside. Will go most place the FJ would, but again go to the extreme on a regular basis and long term reasonable maintenance is gone.
There is no difference between the 4WD capabilities of an FJ and a 4Runner when snow and mud are the biggest tests you put them thru. Would buy either again.
It's the same reason there's not reports of blown head gasket's on the FJ cruiser forums. There's a troll here who registers many aliases that is responsible for many of the blown head gasket claims. I'm not saying there hasn't ever been a blown head gasket on a 1gr-fe because if it overheats it certainly can warp the head or something. But the vast majority of the claims here are done by this troll.
A few of his usernames have been banned because he can't control himself. He's got this thing where he thinks the 2uz engine is the best engine ever built and he has to find ways to make the 1gr seem like an inferior engine. He's obviously got some kind of personal issues and uses this board as a way to act out. Here are some of his banned usernames:
Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: eskimochaos Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: eskim0chaos Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: PrepareYourAnus Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: V8 Brah Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: ClockWork Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: Lexus LX Toyota 4Runner Forum - View Profile: 2UZ
Those are just the ones that I remember off hand. There are no doubt more. And, like I said, I'm quite sure he's responsible for the majority of these blown head gasket reports. There's a pattern to most of the reports - they're almost always a poster with just a few posts under they're belt and then there's a head gasket failure. Again, some of them may be legit but I bet this loser is behind most of them.
It's funny that you quoted that from T4R.org, which I read a few months ago. My take on that is that it was posted by some immature fanboy of the 4.0L motor trying to defend his V6 against the other forum members who own the V8. Those crybabies have a V6 vs. V8 thing going on there that I couldn't care less about....
If you look a bit further than that one post, you will find that there are other websites where the head gasket issue is laid out in detail, including pictures of repair invoices from dealers. Also, my local mechanic is the person who told me to be aware of it after I took the vehicle in with a CEL. He has seen it before.
I had a misfire in the number 4 cylinder (it's always 4 or 6) with a rough idle at start up. After replacing the coil and plugs, the CEL and misfire returned late this spring when ambient temps were cool in the morning, maybe causing contracting aluminum heads and allowing coolant to seep through the gasket. After a second CEL and misfire in #4 cylinder, I moved the new coil to another cylinder and reset the CEL, and so far it's been okay. However, since that time, the ambient temps have been much more stable (i.e. warm mornings and warm/hot days), thereby probably resulting in less contraction of the aluminum head. However, I am still very slowly using/losing coolant. It's not leaking from the radiator or water pump, and so it's going somewhere. My guess is that it's slipping past the head gasket and burning up, which is what originally caused the rough idle and misfire at start up.
My mechanic bore scoped the cylinder and pressure tested the cooling system, but he is not yet convinced that the gasket needs to be replaced. I guess I will know for sure when the temperatures start to cool down in the morning.
If you think that I am going through this trouble and aggravation so that I can pose as a V6 fanboy on the T4R website, perhaps you wouldn't mind donating some cash if/when my head gasket needs to be replaced....
By the way, Toyota changed the part number for the 1GR-FE head gasket sometime around 2007. As a result, there is a good chance that the head gasket was redesigned and upgraded. I doubt whether Toyota did this for no good reason. Hopefully, the later 4.0L motors produced with the new gasket won't have this issue.
I've got (well, wife's car) a 2005 4WD with the V8 and love the thing. It's the first vehicle I've ever owned that I can say I'll never sell it and will drive it till it dies. We've only got 70k on the clock, but zero problems except having to replace warped brake rotors at 30k (warrantied). It's got great power and is great off road.
The V8 4WD is full-time 4WD, so our fuel mileage sucks at 14mpg in town and 18 mpg highway (hand calculated). But, I didn't buy it for it's mpg.
My desire was to get another truck that had the potential to go 300k and get 20mpg to replace my 95 Dodge Cummins (400k on it...motor is still good...), so I don't think that 200k is overly optimistic. I bought a 2006 SR5 in a pinch with low mileage to try for a couple years and then replace with a newer body to survive Michigan salting.
Based on your Ford, if you drive 15k a year and want to run 10yrs to 200k, then a 4Runner with 50k is your target.
My 2006 had 95k on it when I sold it and the only thing that went south was the electric switch for the rear window
I didn't buy my 2012 4rnr for the gas mileage either, figured it would get around 17 to 19 around town and a little more on the hwy. I was pleasantly surprised to get 20.5 in town and 22.3 on the road. I can live with that. Oh, it has a V6 in it.
You might want to look at the math of owning new vs used. I did a KBB search of 4-Runners available in my area. Only two 2008's with 4X4 within 75 miles of home and the best deal was $18,000 with just under 100,000 miles. I consider about 15 years and 300,000 miles as far as I want to push one without major restoration. That is a 6 year old truck, (the 2014's are already out) so you should get 9 more years out of it. Breaks down to $2000/year.
The best price on a new vehicle I found was $33,000. If you drive it 15 years it breaks down to $2200/year. Some new versions were as much as $40K. Going that route would be get you up to 2660/year of ownership.
In this case used comes out a little cheaper, but not that much. If you buy new you have at least the 1st 3 years covered by warranty. If you get a lemon you have 3 years to get it fixed, or trade it before you spend a dime. Buying used is a roll of the dice. Most are fine, but you could end up with major repairs on your dime within months, even weeks.
Good advice here. In 2004 I bought a used '98 4Runner 4x4 that turned out to be a real lemon. I put $5K into it in 3 months for repairs (alternator, transmission, etc.) before I decided to unload it. I should have bought new.
I'd get an FJ Cruiser. That is a REAL 4WD. 4 rnrs have been neutered
FJ Cruisers don't work well for tall guys... the company I used to work for had one for a support vehicle and I drove it around San Diego for a weekend. The vision line out the front was way too low for me when I had to see traffic lights. And they have the mother of all blind spots out the back corners. Otherwise, they seem like pretty cool rigs. Toyota dependability, good sized package.
I have a 2008 SR5 4WD that just turned 150K. It's been the best vehicle I've ever owned with not a single repair. I run full synthetic and change the oil every 10K with a premium oil filter, air filter and driveshaft greasing. I did the first brake job at 90K and probably ready for another. Also at 90K, I had a coolant change, transmission, transfer case and rear end change.
I have a '97 that I bought with just over 100k on it and I just blew a head gasket at 254k miles. It's a limited with the locker in back and other than height I have no complaints. I've taken it places that make people scratch their head.
I too would NOT recommend the FJ. It's not all it's cracked up to be.
I recently bought a used Jeep JK Unlimited Rubicon and again except for the ride height it's great. Lockers front and rear, sway disconnect, shut off traction control if you want. Rear seat folds flat. TONS of aftermarket support. I will probably put an aluminum V8 in mine when I get my wife a new rig and it becomes my primary.
Thanks for all the replies. I know that buying used is a crapshoot. However, these days you can do a little checkup on an individual vehicle and determine if it has been wrecked or how many owners its had. FWIW. I LOVE the looks of the FJ but having looked at it, while it seems to have a rather spacious passenger area, the cargo area behind the seat leaves something to be desired. I need a place to haul dog, trash, pine straw bales, maybe a deer carcass, etc. without having to lay down the back seats. I've also slept in the back of my Explorer occasionally, comfortably I might add.
I think a lot of SUV's have been "neutered". Seems the 4 Runner is still a "real" SUV.
The head gasket issue was solved years ago from what I understand.
The notorious head gasket issue that plagued Toyota's 3.0L V6 was solved years ago as the motor became obsolete and was replaced by the 3.4L motor, and then later, the 4.0L motor. Toyota conducted a "special service campaign" to address the 3.0L head gasket failures.
The 4.0L V6 (1GR-FE) was first used in the 4Runner in the 2003 model year (4th Generation 4Runner). Based upon my mechanic's experience, my limited Internet research and the ongoing experience with my own 2006 4Runner, head gasket failure seems to be becoming a more prevalent issue as these 4.0L motors begin to age and rack up miles in excess of 100k.
All of the links that I posted above relate to head gasket problems that have occured with 4.0L motors within the last few years or months. Anyone considering buying a used 4Runner with the 4.0L motor might be well served to consider the potential costs of replacing a head gasket.
I've got a 2000 4runner with 187,000 on the clock. No mechanical issues at all so far. With the V-6 3.4 liter it is a tad underpowered at times when we pull the two place atv trailer.
I had a 95 3.0 liter 4wd PU and had the head gasket issue at 237,000 miles. I 'fixed' it with a can of nano technology head gasket repair. It fixed the gasket but I had to replace the radiator. The guy I sold it to is still driving it with the same motor.
Neighber's Wife Has a 2006 Thats Loaded. They Have Never Had a Days Problem, That I Know Of..But Told Him, She's Ready for Somehing Else. It's Clean Black On Black With Leather. Their Asking $9,000.It's Here In North Ga. If Your intersted.
The head gasket issue was solved years ago from what I understand.
The notorious head gasket issue that plagued Toyota's 3.0L V6 was solved years ago as the motor became obsolete and was replaced by the 3.4L motor, and then later, the 4.0L motor. Toyota conducted a "special service campaign" to address the 3.0L head gasket failures.
The 4.0L V6 (1GR-FE) was first used in the 4Runner in the 2003 model year (4th Generation 4Runner). Based upon my mechanic's experience, my limited Internet research and the ongoing experience with my own 2006 4Runner, head gasket failure seems to be becoming a more prevalent issue as these 4.0L motors begin to age and rack up miles in excess of 100k.
All of the links that I posted above relate to head gasket problems that have occured with 4.0L motors within the last few years or months. Anyone considering buying a used 4Runner with the 4.0L motor might be well served to consider the potential costs of replacing a head gasket.
IIRC there was a TSB on this and the problem was with 05-08 model years. I believe the gasket material/design was changed and the problem was solved.
[/quote] IIRC there was a TSB on this and the problem was with 05-08 model years. I believe the gasket material/design was changed and the problem was solved. [/quote]
I have read that Toyota did change the part number for the 1GR-FE head gasket sometime around 2007 or 2008, and so they probably recognized a problem and made changes. Hopefully, the problem is solved for vehicles newer than my 2006. People who have approached Toyota to cover the 4.0L head gasket failures out of warranty have basically been told to go pound sand - so far.
I have a hypothesis about what might be a contributing factor, and I don't know whether the 5th Generation 4Runners are designed the same as the 4th Generation. From what I have read, most, if not all, failures have begun with leaking into an even-numbered cylinder, which are located on the driver's side of the motor. If you follow the exhaust from the manifold on the paseenger's side, it goes nearly stratight back all the way to the tailpipe. However, the driver's side exhaust comes off the manifold and makes a near 90 degree turn under the transfer case and connects with the passenger side pipe. In addition, where the exhaust pipe goes under the transfer case, it is flattened and constricted so as not to protrude any lower than the frame crossmember in that area.
I imagine that the gasket used on the left and right cylinder banks is the same. Because the failure appears to always happen on only one side, there must be something causing it other than random gasket failure. I'm thinking that there might be more heat build-up in the even-numbered cylinders because of the convoluted exhaust routing and constriction. If there is anything to this hypothesis, hopefully the new gasket material will be up to the job.
I would be curious to know whether anyone with a 5th Generation 4Runner has ever noticed how the exhaust flows back to the tailpipe, especially on the driver's side.
The head gasket issue was solved years ago from what I understand.
The notorious head gasket issue that plagued Toyota's 3.0L V6 was solved years ago as the motor became obsolete and was replaced by the 3.4L motor, and then later, the 4.0L motor. Toyota conducted a "special service campaign" to address the 3.0L head gasket failures.
The 4.0L V6 (1GR-FE) was first used in the 4Runner in the 2003 model year (4th Generation 4Runner). Based upon my mechanic's experience, my limited Internet research and the ongoing experience with my own 2006 4Runner, head gasket failure seems to be becoming a more prevalent issue as these 4.0L motors begin to age and rack up miles in excess of 100k.
All of the links that I posted above relate to head gasket problems that have occured with 4.0L motors within the last few years or months. Anyone considering buying a used 4Runner with the 4.0L motor might be well served to consider the potential costs of replacing a head gasket.
IIRC there was a TSB on this and the problem was with 05-08 model years. I believe the gasket material/design was changed and the problem was solved.
Thanks for that Info I have a 2009 4.0 and my kid has a 2006 4.0 Tacoma ..we both have close to 70k on each.
My wife has a 2011 SR5 2wd - I HATE it!!! Worst handling (steering/braking) thing I've ever driven, honestly. On anything more than the applying a very small amount of brake, it does a huge nose dive. And the pedal travel is horrible - like 3" before you get any braking at all, then it's all of the sudden. I have had it in for repair several times and they've replaced about everything possible, but still explain that it is normal (good dealer that strives to make their customers happy)! I would love to have one of the previous versions instead. So you know I'm not a Toyota hater, I've had a Tacoma and 2 Tundras (old and new model) and loved 'em all!
