Common Core math - how can they be so stupid

Math is one of the absolutes of nature. However, our wonderful, liberal government is trying to change that. Here's a quote from a Foxnews article that sums it up:

Quote

�The math standard focuses on historical math, which has been shown to be a disaster,� Glyn Wright, executive director of Eagle Forum, told FoxNews.com. �With the new math standard in the Common Core, there are no longer absolute truths. So 3 times 4 can now equal 11 so long as a student can effectively explain how they reached that answer.�

This is idiocy in the 1st degree.

My daughters teacher didn't like it when I told here that I thought common core was one of the worst things that they could be teaching our kids.

How do these people have jobs.

2+1=1

& I can prove it

Mike

Yep.The old "New Math" mystified me.

I hope I can retire before these kids reach the University.

BTW, there is some real good news in education. Google up the Kahn Academy. Got kids, grandkids? Send them there. Better, TAKE them there (it is on line, and free).

I wonder if this new "common core math" will work with drawing odds and bonus point states.
Do you think I can explain the state of Utah how my 14 points is the highest number and I should draw a San Juan elk tag ?

It's called the teachers union.

I pretty much got run off after I kept saying the emperor had no clothes in meetings about all the "reforms" of college algebra, calculus et cetera. It's amazing how much educationalist bullshit keeps getting tried instead of what works, namely disciplined effort on the part of students.

It's what happens when you have liberal arts people defining technical education needs

http://www.eagleforum.org/about/glyn-wright.html

Last year there was a young high school woman as a contestant in the First Robotics competition I volunteer at wearing a t-shirt that said "Math is hard, so is life, get over it" She'll go far and then there will be the rest of the world that didn't work at mastering hard topics who complain it isn't fair she got ahead.

Remember Big Daddy Kane with Pimpin' Ain't Easy?

If I ever go back to teaching I should have a shirt made up with Big Daddy Newton: Calculus Ain't Easy.

But why would the administration want to properly teach kids? What they want are dumb people on the Govt dole that don't ask questions and just keep voting them back in. Life is good.

There's gov't money available if you pitch a good line of education bs to try, and grant money helps with tenure and promotion. "So and so got a quarter million for the department" and so on.

Next thing you know they won't be keeping score at kids' soccer games. Oh wait, they already do, so as not to hurt anybody's feelers.

So no matter what the score!!!! if you think you won.. you win Just great!!!!!So I killed a little 8 point buck a few years back!!!!
If he would have lived for a few more years he would have been a Booner. Do you thank I could go ahead and enter him in the B&C record Books? He would have scored at least 216 net as a typical.

Postmodernism is what they call it.

Liberal Arts majors.....make half-way decent 'shoeshine boys'!! Twenty odd years ago when my son was entering college he came home and told me "Dad...would you believe that 50% of the freshmen entering college have to take 5th grade remedial reading courses?"

I told him "Yep...and you can bet your sweet Tu Tu that the college will accept every one of them because when they state "I wants ta go ta coledge"....that means that much more $$$$$ for the school!"

Profs have to have their $150 grand a year!!

Originally Posted by RMulhern

Profs have to have their $150 grand a year!!

Man,that would sure be sweet. Another instance where you don't have a clue what you are running your mouth about.

Originally Posted by Rock Chuck

Math is one of the absolutes of nature. However, our wonderful, liberal government is trying to change that. Here's a quote from a Foxnews article that sums it up:

Quote

�The math standard focuses on historical math, which has been shown to be a disaster,� Glyn Wright, executive director of Eagle Forum, told FoxNews.com. �With the new math standard in the Common Core, there are no longer absolute truths. So 3 times 4 can now equal 11 so long as a student can effectively explain how they reached that answer.�

This is idiocy in the 1st degree.

Teacher: Johnny, how did you come up with your answer on the math test that the sum of 5+5 is 11?

Little Johnny replies with, "real simple Teacher', then he holds up one of his hands and slowly starts counting backward from 10 each finger on that hand.

Little Johnny: 10,...9,...8,...7,...6,... and then I just added in the 5 fingers on my other hand and it equals 11.

Originally Posted by Pugs

It's what happens when you have liberal arts people defining technical education needs

http://www.eagleforum.org/about/glyn-wright.html

Last year there was a young high school woman as a contestant in the First Robotics competition I volunteer at wearing a t-shirt that said "Math is hard, so is life, get over it" She'll go far and then there will be the rest of the world that didn't work at mastering hard topics who complain it isn't fair she got ahead.

Saw a Tee-shirt I really liked a while back;

"I'm an English Major- You Do the Math!"

There's a lot of that around here.

Originally Posted by ranger1

There's a lot of that around here.

Yep, and guys like Rick seem to be serial offenders.

Can't wait until they are designing airplanes, bridges, etc..

When nothing works, who do you think they will blame? My money is on the few who actually put in the work to learn and do things the right way.

A little history lesson here for you. Common Core was started and funded by two or three major corporations. In other words�privately funded. Somehow it weaseled its way into the government and now into our schools. Now for a little more reality. You'll be hard pressed to find many teachers that are really fond of Common Core. It's not something they wanted, and it's being shoved down their throats. Not to mention threatening them with their jobs if they don't adhere to it. This is one program that blaming teachers in any way, shape, or form is way off base. Look to Washington if you want to blame someone, this idea WAS NOT hatched in the classroom!

Originally Posted by Jcubed

Can't wait until they are designing airplanes, bridges, etc..

They already are , maybe not common core but just as stupid

Mike

Originally Posted by Rock Chuck

Math is one of the absolutes of nature. However, our wonderful, liberal government is trying to change that. Here's a quote from a Foxnews article that sums it up:

Quote

�The math standard focuses on historical math, which has been shown to be a disaster,� Glyn Wright, executive director of Eagle Forum, told FoxNews.com. �With the new math standard in the Common Core, there are no longer absolute truths. So 3 times 4 can now equal 11 so long as a student can effectively explain how they reached that answer.�

This is idiocy in the 1st degree.

It's inexplicable except by scripture. Second Timothy chapter 3 tell us in the last days people will do wrong and call it right. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3&version=WE

We see that all around us culturally, morally, politically, societally, scientifically, and now mathmatically. The End can't be far behind.

I found some interesting things while reading through UN agenda 21. It states that better educated people are more likely to reach the middle class and would then use more of the earths resources. They have have a goal to dumb down the education system to keep people stupid and poor to protect the environment.

Critical thinkers scare progressives and so does logic. No wonder they don't want our kids being taught either. Common core is about keeping people stupid, poor, and subservient.

Bb

Originally Posted by Burleyboy

I found some interesting things while reading through UN agenda 21. It states that better educated people are more likely to reach the middle class and would then use more of the earths resources. They have have a goal to dumb down the education system to keep people stupid and poor to protect the environment.

Critical thinkers scare progressives and so does logic. No wonder they don't want our kids being taught either. Common core is about keeping people stupid, poor, and subservient.

Bb

And on welfare.

Most would be surprised who is behind common core. Some interesting information.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ameliahamilton/jeb-bush-and-the-common-core-money-trail

Not surprising!! When we first learned that the local public schools were no longer teaching basic math skills to include multiplication tables we were shocked. My parents immediately enrolled my nephew in the Sylvan learning institute.

Then we learned no cursive writing was being taught so it was back to Sylvan. Wonder what's next?

BTW best thousand bucks I ever spent. The kid is so proud that he can now multiply.

Liberals are training the next generation of vote counters where the correct answer is always the liberal wins.

Originally Posted by Burleyboy

I found some interesting things while reading through UN agenda 21. It states that better educated people are more likely to reach the middle class and would then use more of the earths resources. They have have a goal to dumb down the education system to keep people stupid and poor to protect the environment.

Whoever made that observation has obviously never looked at any of the third world nations. The poor have demonstrated such great concern for the environment(we really need a sarcasm smiley). I hope someday we have a president with the stones to tell the UN to p*ss up a rope.

As for the common core math issue, simply apply it to their budgets and salaries. If our children can reasonably argue that 4x3=11 then surely we can argue that a salary of $4000 a month times 12 months equals $13,000. I think I like this new math. Maybe I'll push for it's application to our local school budgets.

Pure Communism, I tell ya!

Nothing else can explain it, except maybe the endtimes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_core_state_standards_initiative

Quote

...Mathematics Standards

The stated goal of the mathematics Standards[21] is to achieve greater focus and coherence in the curriculum (page 3). This is largely in response to the criticism that American mathematics curricula are "a mile wide and an inch deep".

The mathematics Standards include Standards for Mathematical Practice and Standards for Mathematical Content.
Mathematical practice

The Standards mandate that eight principles of mathematical practice be taught:

Make sense of problems and persevere in solving them.
Reason abstractly and quantitatively.
Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others.
Model with mathematics.
Use appropriate tools strategically.
Attend to precision.
Look for and make use of structure.
Look for and express regularity in repeated reasoning.

The practices are adapted from the five process standards of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics and the five strands of proficiency in the National Research Council�s Adding It Up report.[22] These practices are to be taught in every grade from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Details of how these practices are to be connected to each grade level's mathematics content are left to local implementation of the Standards.

As an example of mathematical practice, here is the full description of the sixth practice:

6 Attend to precision.

Mathematically proficient students try to communicate precisely to others. They try to use clear definitions in discussion with others and in their own reasoning. They state the meaning of the symbols they choose, including using the equal sign consistently and appropriately. They are careful about specifying units of measure, and labeling axes to clarify the correspondence with quantities in a problem. They calculate accurately and efficiently, express numerical answers with a degree of precision appropriate for the problem context. In the elementary grades, students give carefully formulated explanations to each other. By the time they reach high school they have learned to examine claims and make explicit use of definitions.

Mathematical content

The Standards lay out the mathematics content that should be learned at each grade level from kindergarten to Grade 8 (age 13-14), as well as the mathematics to be learned in high school. The Standards do not dictate any particular pedagogy or what order topics should be taught within a particular grade level. Mathematical content is organized in a number of domains. At each grade level there are several standards for each domain, organized into clusters of related standards. (See examples below.)

Four domains are included in each of the six grades from kindergarten (age 5-6) to fifth grade (age 10-11):

Operations and Algebraic Thinking;
Number and Operations in Base 10;
Measurement and Data;
Geometry.

Kindergarten also includes the domain Counting and Cardinality. Grades 3 to 5 also include the domain Number and Operations--Fractions.

Four domains are included in each of the Grades 6 through 8:

The Number System;
Expressions and Equations;
Geometry;
Statistics and Probability.

Grades 6 and 7 also include the domain Ratios and Proportional Relationships. Grade 8 includes the domain Functions.

In addition to detailed standards (of which there are 21 to 28 for each grade from kindergarten to eighth grade), the Standards present an overview of "critical areas" for each grade. (See examples below.)

In high school (Grades 9 to 12), the Standards do not specify which content is to be taught at each grade level. Up to Grade 8, the curriculum is integrated; students study four or five different mathematical domains every year. The Standards do not dictate whether the curriculum should continue to be integrated in high school with study of several domains each year (as is done in other countries, as well as New York and Georgia), or whether the curriculum should be separated out into separate year-long algebra and geometry courses (as has been the tradition in most U.S. states). An appendix[23] to the Standards describes four possible pathways for covering high school content (two traditional and two integrated), but states are free to organize the content any way they want.

There are six conceptual categories of content to be covered at the high school level:

Number and quantity;
Algebra;
Functions;
Modeling;
Geometry;
Statistics and probability.

Some topics in each category are indicated only for students intending to take more advanced, optional courses such as calculus, advanced statistics, or discrete mathematics. Even if the traditional sequence is adopted, functions and modeling are to be integrated across the curriculum, not taught as separate courses. In fact, modeling is also a Mathematical Practice (see above), and is meant to be integrated across the entire curriculum beginning in kindergarten. The modeling category does not have its own standards; instead, high school standards in other categories which are intended to be considered part of the modeling category are indicated in the Standards with a star symbol.

Each of the six high school categories includes a number of domains. For example, the "number and quantity" category contains four domains: the real number system; quantities; the complex number system; and vector and matrix quantities. The "vector and matrix quantities" domain is reserved for advanced students, as are some of the standards in "the complex number system".
Examples of mathematical content

Second grade example: In the second grade there are 26 standards in four domains. The four critical areas of focus for second grade are (1) extending understanding of base-ten notation; (2) building fluency with addition and subtraction; (3) using standard units of measure; and (4) describing and analyzing shapes. Below are the second grade standards for the domain of "operations and algebraic thinking" (Domain 2.OA). This second grade domain contains four standards, organized into three clusters:

Represent and solve problems involving addition and subtraction.
1. Use addition and subtraction within 100 to solve one- and two-step word problems involving situations of adding to, taking from, putting together, taking apart, and comparing, with unknowns in all positions, e.g., by using drawings and equations with a symbol for the unknown number to represent the problem.
Add and subtract within 20.
2. Fluently add and subtract within 20 using mental strategies. By end of Grade 2, know from memory all sums of two one-digit numbers.
Work with equal groups of objects to gain foundations for multiplication.
3. Determine whether a group of objects (up to 20) has an odd or even number of members, e.g., by pairing objects or counting them by 2s; write an equation to express an even number as a sum of two equal addends.
4. Use addition to find the total number of objects arranged in rectangular arrays with up to 5 rows and up to 5 columns; write an equation to express the total as a sum of equal addends.

Domain example: As an example of the development of a domain across several grades, here are the clusters for learning fractions (Domain NF, which stands for "Number and Operations�Fractions") in Grades 3 through 6. Each cluster contains several standards (not listed here):

Grade 3:

Develop an understanding of fractions as numbers.

Grade 4:

Extend understanding of fraction equivalence and ordering.
Build fractions from unit fractions by applying and extending previous understandings of operations on whole numbers.
Understand decimal notation for fractions, and compare decimal fractions.

Grade 5:

Use equivalent fractions as a strategy to add and subtract fractions.
Apply and extend previous understandings of multiplication and division to multiply and divide fractions.

In Grade 6, there is no longer a "number and operations�fractions" domain, but students learn to divide fractions by fractions in the number system domain.

High school example: As an example of a high school category, here are the domains and clusters for algebra. There are four algebra domains (in bold below), each of which is broken down into as many as four clusters (bullet points below). Each cluster contains one to five detailed standards (not listed here). Starred standards, such as the Creating Equations domain (A-CED), are also intended to be part of the modeling category.

Seeing Structure in Expressions (A-SSE)

Interpret the structure of expressions
Write expressions in equivalent forms to solve problems

Arithmetic with Polynomials and Rational Functions (A-APR)

Perform arithmetic operations on polynomials
Understand the relationship between zeros and factors of polynomials
Use polynomial identities to solve problems
Rewrite rational expressions

Creating Equations.★ (A-CED)

Create equations that describe numbers or relationships

Reasoning with Equations and Inequalities (A-REI)

Understand solving equations as a process of reasoning and explain the reasoning
Solve equations and inequalities in one variable
Solve systems of equations
Represent and solve equations and inequalities graphically

As an example of detailed high school standards, the first cluster above is broken down into two standards as follows:

Interpret the structure of expressions
1. Interpret expressions that represent a quantity in terms of its context.★

a. Interpret parts of an expression, such as terms, factors, and coefficients.
b. Interpret complicated expressions by viewing one or more of their parts as a single entity. For example, interpret P(1+r)n as the product of P and a factor not depending on P.

2. Use the structure of an expression to identify ways to rewrite it. For example, see x4 � y4 as (x2)2 � (y2)2, thus recognizing it as a difference of squares that can be factored as (x2 � y2)(x2 + y2)....

The nice thing about math is that soon it will all be teacherless, for the lower level stuff. Some freakin great computer programs that teach algebra and lower that blow away anything a classroom setting can accomplish.

Originally Posted by Big Sky

A little history lesson here for you. Common Core was started and funded by two or three major corporations. In other words�privately funded. Somehow it weaseled its way into the government and now into our schools. Now for a little more reality. You'll be hard pressed to find many teachers that are really fond of Common Core. It's not something they wanted, and it's being shoved down their throats. Not to mention threatening them with their jobs if they don't adhere to it. This is one program that blaming teachers in any way, shape, or form is way off base. Look to Washington if you want to blame someone, this idea WAS NOT hatched in the classroom!

Exactly. (And it also isn't the "unions" who are behind this - though they do tend to support some of the folks who float these crazy schemes.) There's a lot of reasons why education isn't an attractive (or arguably smart) career choice these days. Having politicians legislate education - and stake people's livelihoods on nebulous results which can't possibly be accurately credited - all the while these same politicals can't even manage a proper budget or economy.

Originally Posted by Rock Chuck

Math is one of the absolutes of nature. However, our wonderful, liberal government is trying to change that. Here's a quote from a Foxnews article that sums it up:

Quote

�The math standard focuses on historical math, which has been shown to be a disaster,� Glyn Wright, executive director of Eagle Forum, told FoxNews.com. �With the new math standard in the Common Core, there are no longer absolute truths. So 3 times 4 can now equal 11 so long as a student can effectively explain how they reached that answer.�

This is idiocy in the 1st degree.

That apparently long-flouted example is one which is taken out of context. (As near as I can tell, "we" are critical of folks who take issues important to us out of context, therefore, we should be careful not to do the same.) That example, if one views and hears the rest of it, rather clearly shows that explaining the reasoning for 3x4=11 will uncover the error in reasoning. I can't believe that everyone here has always been right about everything the first time. I know some of us have learned some things through error and discovery; surely there are a few more than that who have learned by more than the "because I said so" method. There is a place for rote learning to be sure, but rote learning without understanding is not without it's own pitfalls. Just ask the fellow who doesn't know how to navigate without a GPS....when his batteries are dead.

Quote

There is a place for rote learning to be sure, but rote learning without understanding is not without it's own pitfalls. Just ask the fellow who doesn't know how to navigate without a GPS....when his batteries are dead.

And I'll argue that rote learning of the multiplication tables is a) just plain necessary for life in civilization and b) a great stepping stone to learning in greater depth. Thus there is absolutely no justification for allowing a student to state their reasoning behind 4 * 3 = 11. Just "Sorry, that's wrong, 4 "threes" equals 12, now how much is 5 "threes?"

Kid: "5 threes is 14 because I just explained to you that 4 threes is 11 so add 3 more to that and it takes you to 14."

Teacher: "This here curriculum says that is correct."

Originally Posted by heavywalker

Kid: "5 threes is 14 because I just explained to you that 4 threes is 11 so add 3 more to that and it takes you to 14."

Teacher: "This here curriculum says that is correct."

Which just goes to prove that the kid understands how to get derive the right answer, and it's the curriculum that is allowing them to fail.

Originally Posted by heavywalker

Kid: "5 threes is 14 because I just explained to you that 4 threes is 11 so add 3 more to that and it takes you to 14."

Teacher: "This here curriculum says that is correct."

That stupid Common Core logic reminds me of this joke which I guess is now on it's way to becoming reality.

Cajun Math

A construction site boss was interviewing men for a job, when along came Boudreaux. The boss thought to himself, "I'm not hiring that ole lazy cajun..."

He decided to set a test for Boudreaux, hoping he wouldn't be able to answer the questions, and he'd be able to refuse him the job without any problems.

The first question the boss asked was, "Without using numbers, represent the number 9." Boudreaux says, "Dat's easy," and draws three oak trees. The boss says, "What the hell's that?" Boudreaux says, "Tree 'n' tree 'n' tree makes nine."

The boss says, "Fair enough." "Second question, same rules, but this time represent 99."

Boudreaux stares into space for a while, then makes a smudge on each tree. "Dere ya go, sir," he says. The boss scratches his head and asks, "How on earth do you get that to represent 99?" Boudreaux says, "Each tree is dirty now! so it's dirty tree, 'n' dirty tree, 'n' dirty tree...dat's 99!"

The boss, now is getting worried he's going to have to hire him, so he says, "All right, question three. Same rules once again, but this time represent the number 100."

Boudreaux stares into space again, then shouts, "I got it!" He then makes a little mark at the base of each tree, and says "Dere ya go, sir. 100." The boss looks at Boudreaux's attempt and thinking that he's got him this time.

"Go on Boudreaux, you must be crazy if you think that represents a hundred." Boudreaux leans forward and points to the marks at the tree bases, and says, "A little dog comes along and craps by each tree, so now ya got, dirty tree an' a turd, dirty tree an' a turd, an dirty tree an' a turd, which makes a hundred! So when can I start workin'?

Originally Posted by WayneShaw

But why would the administration want to properly teach kids? What they want are dumb people on the Govt dole that don't ask questions and just keep voting them back in. Life is good.

One of the goals of the Obumbler admin is to try to find a way for their supporters to get jobs no matter if their ignorant or criminals. This is one of the ways for them to achieve that.

Originally Posted by Big Sky

You'll be hard pressed to find many teachers that are really fond of Common Core. It's not something they wanted, and it's being shoved down their throats. Not to mention threatening them with their jobs if they don't adhere to it. This is one program that blaming teachers in any way, shape, or form is way off base. Look to Washington if you want to blame someone, this idea WAS NOT hatched in the classroom!

Obama panders to his union supporters and if the teachers unions were opposed to common core he would put a stop to it. They don't primarily because it achieves a goal of the progressive fascist ideology which is to turn out good little progressive fascist students.

Originally Posted by Rock Chuck

Math is one of the absolutes of nature. However, our wonderful, liberal government is trying to change that. Here's a quote from a Foxnews article that sums it up:

Quote

�The math standard focuses on historical math, which has been shown to be a disaster,� Glyn Wright, executive director of Eagle Forum, told FoxNews.com. �With the new math standard in the Common Core, there are no longer absolute truths. So 3 times 4 can now equal 11 so long as a student can effectively explain how they reached that answer.�

This is idiocy in the 1st degree.

Limbaugh had a parody several years ago about this very thing. It was funny at the time because of its absurdity.

Originally Posted by Scott_Thornley

Quote

There is a place for rote learning to be sure, but rote learning without understanding is not without it's own pitfalls. Just ask the fellow who doesn't know how to navigate without a GPS....when his batteries are dead.

And I'll argue that rote learning of the multiplication tables is a) just plain necessary for life in civilization and b) a great stepping stone to learning in greater depth. Thus there is absolutely no justification for allowing a student to state their reasoning behind 4 * 3 = 11. Just "Sorry, that's wrong, 4 "threes" equals 12, now how much is 5 "threes?"

As I said, if you don't understand why........ thinking 4 x 3 = 11 can only exist when they don't understand that 4 x 3 is 4 "threes". Being able to hear them explain their 4 "threes" (or 3 "fours") insures that they know the concept. There are way too many things known and used these days where an understanding should exist, but doesn't. Regardless what one thinks about Common Core, if you don't support that notion, you probably shouldn't be discussing education/learning anyway.

Originally Posted by Rock Chuck

Math is one of the absolutes of nature.....

Quote

So 3 times 4 can now equal 11 so long as a student can effectively explain how they reached that answer.�

This is idiocy in the 1st degree.

Consider these two comments or statements. If the former is true, how then can any student, whether 9, 49, or 99 years old, effectively explain an incorrect answer to that example? It would be impossible. The absurdity of the situation is probably why it was used for an example. It can't be done. Therefore it demonstrates the importance of the understanding. It's quite easy - and common- to incorrectly memorize facts by rote. Without understanding the why, one must rely on outside sources for correction. Of course, the opposite is true as well. There are undoubtedly many reasons and ways to attack Common Core. Using that as an example ain't one of them.

As my ol'man once told me, "why is a dangerous question sometimes."

It really doesn't matter why 3x4=12, it just does.

The trick to life is learning when the question "why?" is appropriate.

Originally Posted by pira114

As my ol'man once told me, "why is a dangerous question sometimes."

It really doesn't matter why 3x4=12, it just does.

The trick to life is learning when the question "why?" is appropriate.

You were well taught.

Originally Posted by Calvin

The nice thing about math is that soon it will all be teacherless, for the lower level stuff. Some freakin great computer programs that teach algebra and lower that blow away anything a classroom setting can accomplish.

I'm looking around for one. Do you know any specifics offhand? thanks in advance.

(and I agree. For the motivated student, times have never been better. For the non-motivated, well, plenty more ways for them to "slip through the cracks."

Originally Posted by Big Sky

A little history lesson here for you. Common Core was started and funded by two or three major corporations. In other words�privately funded. Somehow it weaseled its way into the government and now into our schools. Now for a little more reality. You'll be hard pressed to find many teachers that are really fond of Common Core. It's not something they wanted, and it's being shoved down their throats. Not to mention threatening them with their jobs if they don't adhere to it. This is one program that blaming teachers in any way, shape, or form is way off base. Look to Washington if you want to blame someone, this idea WAS NOT hatched in the classroom!

big fat NJEA member +1 on that.

(i feel a little dirty even typing NJEA Member. Ew. There it is again.)

Originally Posted by 222Rem

Originally Posted by pira114

As my ol'man once told me, "why is a dangerous question sometimes."

It really doesn't matter why 3x4=12, it just does.

The trick to life is learning when the question "why?" is appropriate.

You were well taught.

In a sense, there is at least a teachable moment in all this nonsense. I seriously doubt the CORE curric authors know why.

12.3 + 1 = 13 (sig figs)

1 + 3 = 180 (units)

Originally Posted by 222Rem

Originally Posted by pira114

As my ol'man once told me, "why is a dangerous question sometimes."

It really doesn't matter why 3x4=12, it just does.

The trick to life is learning when the question "why?" is appropriate.

You were well taught.

Are you arguing for or against Common Core? I've had some bad math teachers and some good. The former knew and loved the subject, but couldn't or wouldn't answer questions which enabled understanding. The latter understood how and why things worked as they did, and what they were good for. They made the learning processes much easier and useful. Some of the dumbest students and people I know are math whizzes. There is a big difference between the folks who understand and comprehend, and those who run blindly headlong through life.

Too many people don't ask "why" or care. Therefore, Obama is our president; he just is.

I expect a student to understand and be able to explain why five times six is thirty. What I'm against is the lowering of "at their fingertips" expectations. Students should be able to provide certain answers quickly and correctly without having to think about why every time.

It would have been a real bitch for me if I had to prove Lebesgue's dominated convergence theorem every time I used it.

Originally Posted by mathman

I expect a student to understand and be able to explain why five times six is thirty. What I'm against is the lowering of "at their fingertips" expectations. Students should be able to provide certain answers quickly and correctly without having to think about why every time.

It would have been a real bitch for me if I had to prove Lebesgue's dominated convergence theorem every time I used it.

100% agreement there.

Too many kids can't do the simple, in-your-head math quickly because they haven't memorized the important stuff. And I sure wouldn't expect to hear the "why" of everything a student did, but hearing "why" when they aren't getting it can often pinpoint their misunderstandings. It's kind of like getting the fact that 10 to the 0 power equals 1. Seeing the pattern of decimal movement surely helps to explain the "why" well enough to understand that it isn't zero as is often stated at first blush.

I figure any kid who can make 3 x 4 = 11, and explain it logically to a competent teacher, is either much smarter than any math teacher I've known, or is proving the inadequacy of the teacher who would accept that as an answer. I would surely not put my money on the former.

Anyone ever read the book. "Brave new world". So many similarities

Originally Posted by Crockettnj

Originally Posted by Big Sky

A little history lesson here for you. Common Core was started and funded by two or three major corporations. In other words�privately funded. Somehow it weaseled its way into the government and now into our schools. Now for a little more reality. You'll be hard pressed to find many teachers that are really fond of Common Core. It's not something they wanted, and it's being shoved down their throats. Not to mention threatening them with their jobs if they don't adhere to it. This is one program that blaming teachers in any way, shape, or form is way off base. Look to Washington if you want to blame someone, this idea WAS NOT hatched in the classroom!

big fat NJEA member +1 on that.

(i feel a little dirty even typing NJEA Member. Ew. There it is again.)

+ 1 from NC

Originally Posted by Klikitarik

Originally Posted by 222Rem

Originally Posted by pira114

As my ol'man once told me, "why is a dangerous question sometimes."

It really doesn't matter why 3x4=12, it just does.

The trick to life is learning when the question "why?" is appropriate.

You were well taught.

Too many people don't ask "why" or care. Therefore, Obama is our president; he just is.

Read again what I said about the trick to life being knowing WHEN to ask why. You're taking my words in a context to make a point. But it doesn't work.

I'm not arguing for or against Core. I'm saying the trick to it is knowing WHEN it's an appropriate theory to teach.

Until a child has memorized the very basics of math, it's pointless

If you have ever taught even the basics of math to a variety of kids, you know that some of them need to see "how and why" in order to accept "the facts". I have no problem with that because I'm one of them....show me, don't tell me!

Because math can be an abstract thing, knowing why can be an important hurdle. Some people accept what they are told without questioning why. Math and Obama are very different obviously. However, the idea of questioning is obviously important to some more than others in either case. If math is indeed "one of the absolutes of nature," there should be no threat in questioning it. You cannot change an absolute. Therefore asking "why", explaining "why", and knowing "why" are absolutely zero threat to it. Period. The only reason anyone should get their feathers ruffled about some kid explaining how 3 x 4 = 11 is if that person actually believes it could be done. We both know it can't. The kids explanation would obviously have holes in it. Big deal. It's the teacher's job to help them understand the concepts correctly.

If this is the best argument that Fox or anyone else can come up with against Common Core, we're in trouble...or CC ain't all that bad.

I am sick and tired of the same old saw from all ends of the media spectrum. Keep stuff in context. Flawed ideas don't have to be taken out of context, cherry-picked, or sound-bited.

Ok. I'll show you.

3x4=12.

Originally Posted by pira114

Ok. I'll show you.

3x4=13.

Did you? I have no idea why or how.

Originally Posted by Klikitarik

Originally Posted by pira114

Ok. I'll show you.

3x4=13.

Did you? I have no idea why or how.

But at least it was a little funny. Should have been anyway.

Look, I'm no math wiz. But I am a parent. And I can tell you one thing I've noticed over the years. The kids don't know the basics. They want to advance them so far so fast, that a number of kids can't keep up due to no solid foundation in the basics.

If this were something they wanted to introduce to high school kids that were doing well, fine. But they want to change the way kids are taught from the start.

I don't necessarily disagree that it needs to be changed. It just needs to go back to what it was decades ago. Build a solid foundation in basics and move from there.

If math is a constant, and doesn't ever change, why do we keep changing the way it's taught? Why do you feel this need to be told WHY 3x4=12? Is it really that hard to accept that it does?

I absolutely agree about kids these days often lacking a solid foundation (in part because electronic devices make it so easy not to learn it). And I don't think knowing the why of simple multiplication is all that critical for many kids. I don't think that was a great example to use - nor a great example for the media to pick on. But I do think it is important to be able to show kids how and why stuff works, and for kids (students) to be able to explain their understandings of things.

Actually, examples of why basic multiplication works is as easy as using tactile objects or graph paper...three rows of four, stacked in a rectangle... three squares down the side, four across the top.... make it pretty clear that 3 x 4 is neither 11 or 13.

Math, like sports, is all about accuracy. The final answer is what we want. But to say that a kid doesn't understand a given concept because the final outcome "ain't right" can be incorrect. Sometimes you have a team which knows the game well, knows lot of good techniques and understands the plays well, but simply doesn't win many games. A good coach might recognize a couple simple things that move that team from a losing team to a winning one. In the same way, if a kid understands a certain mathematical process but fails because of an error along the way, it pays to know why. Otherwise you may just be beating a dead horse by repeatedly showing them the same concept over and over. It is possible to give a student credit for understanding of concepts - if that's what you're trying to teach them- even when the final answer is wrong. Then it's time to go to work on where they struggle with the problem of errors. (And lots of times there are fundamental issues with failure to know basic stuff very well, part of the reason I think a basic multiplication problem was a poor example for the presenter to use; perhaps she was an elementary teacher, perhaps she was a math teacher talking to a group of varied content teachers, not all of whom might remember polynomials or whatever, had she used that for an example.

BTW, in retrospect, yes, your answer was funny. However, it struck me as so similar to what a junior high math teacher -whose name more than four decades has erased- would have used, that I didn't get the humor at first. (She didn't do it to be funny.)

We've allowed the thick skulled minorities to sit in class with our children and in the name of equality, these same children have dragged our children down to their level of comprehension.

It's gone full circle to where the teachers/professors are as ignorant as the students being taught.

I remember the Blue Birds, the Red Birds, and the Yellow Birds. Blue Birds in school were the really gifted children and the Yellow Birds were the real dumb asses.

We then added another bird, The Black Bird and that's where our public schools went to [bleep].